How Online Black Markets Work

CWmike writes "The internet is no stranger to crime, writes corporate investigator Brandon Gregg. From counterfeit and stolen products, to illegal drugs, stolen identities and weapons, nearly anything can be purchased online with a few clicks of the mouse. The online black market not only can be accessed by anyone with an Internet connection, but the whole process of ordering illicit goods and services is alarmingly easy and anonymous, with multiple marketplaces to buy or sell anything you want. Gregg started with $1000 and a took journey into the darker side of the Internet using two tools: Bitcoin and the Tor Bundle."

Comments

And how many times would you get ripped off?

[crazyjj]

The authors, no doubt to avoid legal troubles, never actually go through with any transactions. But I would be very curious to know how many scammers are on these sites (not like you could report them to the cops if they didn't deliver). I imagine the feedback/rating system helps, but plenty of scammers found a way to game ebay's system.

Re:And how many times would you get ripped off?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was following the whole "Silk Road" site for a while. I even ordered a grey market (not illegal but not really legal to "sell for human consumption") drug off it, just to test the waters, and.... it didn't show up. So I sent the guy a message and... he appologized and sent another one, which did.

I would even call that "good customer service". That said, scams must be a problem and I may have gotten lucky. Last I saw (I lost interest shortly thereafter....I also never tried the "research chemical" so I can't say whether it was real... I want to say it was AMT but, I honestly don't remember) they were talking about makeing "seller accounts" pay to join.

That at least decreases the incentive to scam, if they implemented it. I looked at some other sites, and some of them had a more in depth verification process before you could start selling. Not sure what that amounts to, as I never went through it.

Re:And how many times would you get ripped off?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know a number of people who have successfully ordered LSD (for ornamental purposes only) from a guy on Silk Road. It has a feedback system which works pretty well.

Scammers can only get away with it a few times before changing user names, and few are willing to support a guy with 0 feedback when there are sellers with the same goods with tons of positive feedback.

Re:And how many times would you get ripped off?

[ClioCJS]

Lots of people, including myself.

Though I can't find much past year 2010 - in 2010, "they" were becoming concerned because the number of residential households relying solely on mobile phone service was up to ... 20%.

Re:And how many times would you get ripped off?

[kyrio]

If you look around and use your brain, Silk Road is just as good as any public site. eBay is filled with just as many scammers as there are legit sellers. Anyone with good feedback on Silk Road will be just as good as any legit retailer.

Re:And how many times would you get ripped off?

[Anonymous Coward]

Although it's possible, I think that would require too much cooperation between different law enforcement agencies. Remember you don't need a recipient's consent to send them an illegal substance. What they tell you to do when ordering their merchandise is to have it sent to a friends house. When the package arrives, take a marker and write "return to sender." Act like you don't know what's in it and then take it to a different location for consumption.

Re:And how many times would you get ripped off?

[bentcd]

But I would be very curious to know how many scammers are on these sites (not like you could report them to the cops if they didn't deliver).

At this point you'd be buying fantasy product and paying for it with fantasy money, so it's an open question who is scamming who exactly in this case.

Ok, so I jest. A little bit. :p

Online black market not so bad

[zAPPzAPP]

It's where I do my grocery shopping.

But these aren't organic farmed tomatoes! Damn you, shadyPeasant67!!

Sounds like...

[AlienIntelligence]

Sounds like a reason to blow a grand on stuff you shouldn't,
in the name of writing an article.

Until you read the article and see it's a talk thru.

Then you read the entire article and realize, it's not even a
talk-thru, it's a talk-about. And not even a good one at that.
There is really no info, except, get bitcoins, use Tor, find
stuff.

Wow. In depth reporting at its finest.

-AI

Re:Sounds like...

[AlienIntelligence]

Gregg started with $1000 and a took journey into the darker side of the Internet using two tools: Bitcoin and the Tor Bundle."

No..., he didn't.

It makes it seem like he did. But I doubt the veracity after reading the entire article.

Considering the article description, there would be no point to have converted the
money, unless he's never done it before and likes OMG ponies. Because in order
for it to be a black market purchase, you must purchase something, that doesn't
exist on the regular market. ie, He needed to commit a crime.

And then write about it.

Tits or GTFO.

-AI

Re:Sounds like...

[Wizard Drongo]

Well it would have been a bit more in-depth, but after the first few deliveries of premium 'shrooms and acid drops, he kinda lost focus...

Re:Sounds like...

[AlienIntelligence]

What's worse, the one notable statement of what he could find:

M9 Tactical handgun with an illegal silencer, unregistered of course.

Is not an illegal weapon. Most states in the US, you can purchase
an unregistered weapon from person to person. Further here in AZ,
that is NOT an illegal silencer (unless you don't purchase the very
cheap $200 license to own a silencer).

So, basically, he told us about a http://www.gunbroker.com/ that
takes bitcoins. Lol.

Btw, $2000, your own Stargate PS90
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=284429588

for those that shall troll me, yes... Stargate used P90's but unless
you are a LEO... THOSE are illegal for commoners.

Man I wish I had a spare 2 grand.

-AI

Re:Sounds like...

[jsh1972]

I actually read something early this morning on the subject that named an online marketplace called Silk Road, only accessible through TOR, and all transactions use bit coin, so I went and checked it out... the main thing was drugs (weed, heroin, meth, cocaine, pharmaceuticals, the new designer drugs, hallucinogen, you get the idea)... there were also hacking tools, banned books (think meth manufacture)... I saw categories for art, currency, services, clothing, and many others. It's an anonymous international marketplace with an escrow service and buyer/seller ratings. I was actually quite impressed.

Re:Sounds like...

[Red Flayer]

Because in order for it to be a black market purchase, you must purchase something, that doesn't exist on the regular market.

That's not true at all. Black market != market for illegal goods.

Black market means that the trade is being conducted outside the legally operating market, not that the item(s) are illegal.

Cigarettes are legal. Buying cigarettes, cash-only, tax-free off the back of a truck is a black market transaction.

Black markets capture economic activity that is "priced out" of the official market due to constraints on trade (like manufacturing quotas, taxes, legal price floors or caps, etc).

As the market he delved into was not an official market, and operated out of the purview of LE, taxing authorities, etc, it was the black market.

Re:Sounds like...

[Anonymous Coward]

Getting revenge on your neighbor letting his dog crap in your yard PRICELESS

Re:Sounds like...

[srmalloy]

Looking at that particular auction, that's the carbine version of the P90, semiauto and with an extended barrel to meet the barrel-length requirement, not the select-fire PDW used on the show. That variant was made so that it could be sold to civilians.

Re:Sounds like...

[AlienIntelligence]

Except that gunbroker requires transfer through a licensed firearms dealer.

Is that a new rule on GunBroker? I've done many in-state purchases
from there, person to person, no FFL holder involved. No govt docs.

Or are you just stating the federal law regarding the shipment of
weapons from one state to another? My mom had to FFL ship
my OWN guns from NC to AZ. $70 of BS, just to get my own guns.

It doesn't matter what site you get a gun from, if you use the mail
system to ship it (OR receive it!) and don't have a FFL, you are
committing a felony. Darknet or not.

So, it's silly to commit an 'easy to get caught at Felony', when you
can do a gun show purchase.

Heck it's even 'easier' to do a straw purchase. Just ask the Mexican
cartels.

-AI

Re:Sounds like...

[RobertinXinyang]

Its right above the product description. [quote]Firearms may only be shipped to a licensed dealer (FFL Holder).[/quote]

Re:Sounds like...

[mhpdx5000]

Most "silencers" are actually suppressors; that is, they suppress the noise the gun makes from powder detonation down to lower decibel levels, but they more or less don't make it whisper quiet/silent. Valid reasons to have them would be to prevent hearing damage in general, in addition to noise control for places such as shooting ranges that might be near other developments (say, an indoor range, or an outdoor one that has had residential and commercial development encroach upon it). Even countries with stronger gun control than the US (Finland and England, for example) encourage shooters to own and use suppressors for the above reasons. From a health and public nuisance standpoint, it's actually a better question to ask why they're so restricted in the first place; the noise of an unsuppressed gun doesn't really deter criminals from misusing them.

These Markets Need a More Modern and PC name

[l0ungeb0y]

I propose we call these "Attractive and Successful Markets of Alternative Economy"

Re:These Markets Need a More Modern and PC name

[Attila Dimedici]

I propose we call these "Attractive and Successful Markets of Alternative Economy"

What's wrong with calling it a black market? Or are you a racist?

Re:These Markets Need a More Modern and PC name

[l0ungeb0y]

Jesus, how's the air traffic up there?

How ofline Black markets works

[denis-The-menace]

-Go to shady parts of a Big City.
-ask around for [illegal stuff]
-Use anonymous Cash (-- mention this is *BAD*, Um-Kay)
-Conclude "Big Cities" are bad and should be controlled/blocked off. Should have check points. (IOW: Nazis had the right idea: "Papers Please")

When will these fuddy-duddies/ idiots die-off so that this constant fear-mongering can stop?

Re:How ofline Black markets works

[vlm]

When will these fuddy-duddies/ idiots die-off so that this constant fear-mongering can stop?

Die off won't help. You need a fundamental societal shift where fear doesn't sell. Damn unlikely to happen anytime soon. I'm sure right about where scarey movies stop selling, roller coasters go away... Or you need something "real" to be scared about instead of fearmongering on TV. Maybe a nice civil war, or ethnic cleansing, or utter economic collapse, or famine, or all 4 at the same time. They're extremely likely in our future; how far in future, who can say.

What MIGHT happen in the short term is the fuddy duddies die off so we no longer have to hear about how Elvis's hips, err, Dungeons and Dragons, err, video games, err, the gangster rap is corrupting the youth and there's this scarey internet thing, but in replacement we'll have to sit thru endless "Gen Y idiots gave away all their privacy on the internet; now they're screwed" and "all big business are always bogey man all the time" and stuff like that.

Re:How ofline Black markets works

[Hatta]

Or you need something "real" to be scared about instead of fearmongering on TV.

What about the ever expanding authoritarian state we find ourselves in?

Re:How ofline Black markets works

[Anonymous Coward]

If I have a stick, and I call one end of it "geniuses" and the other "idiots", then I cut off the end labeled "idiots" I do not get a stick with no "Idiots" end. Instead my stick still has an "idiots" end and it's even closer to the "geniuses" end. Continuing to apply that "solution" will only ensure I destroy the stick piece by piece.

Re:How ofline Black markets works

[H0p313ss]

When will these fuddy-duddies/ idiots die-off so that this constant fear-mongering can stop?

When they stop getting paid to do it. In other words when the alarmist media can stop selling advertising for it. Which all translates to: when the general public can no longer be fooled by the reactionaries.

Which will around the time that Joe Public finally realizes that "Reality TV" is anything but real, and that when anybody advertises themselves as "Fair and Balanced" the reality is probably something else.

In other words, don't hold your breath, the marching morons are coming... knee-deep in the water around Zanzibar.

Re:How ofline Black markets works

[demonlapin]

Difference being, of course, that on the internet you're in no physical danger and almost certainly won't lose more than what you gave the guy - he won't tell his buddies in the next block to carjack you.

Not a complex subject....

[trum4n]

Just Ebay with your monitor brightness on 0.

And how many are actually sting operations?

[maz2331]

I'd also expect that the cops are using some of these as sting operations.

Capitalism - It Works, Bitches!

[CanHasDIY]

No matter how hard you try to stop it!

One would think shit like this would give our legislators a moment's pause to consider the futility of their constant attempts to enact various forms of prohibition... but alas, will likely have the opposite effect.


Apparently one of the key factors in getting elected to representative government is knowing fuck-all about economics.



So it goes...

Grey Market

[alexander_686]

We are splitting hairs, but generally speaking activities which are legal but are done illegally (to dodge taxes, regulations, and the such) is considered to be Grey Market activity.

Cash under the table is considered more of a economic crime, and is generally considered a lesser moral offence.

Black markets deal with illegal actives done illegally or within a criminal organization.

i.e. bootlegging untaxed cigarettes that you picked up at the reservation is one thing. Running a organization (multiple people, bribing officials, selling to retails stores who should know better) is something else.

Took a Journey...

[retroworks]

Ran out of breath, returned to his hammock. Nothing to read here.