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Google Facing FTC Fine Over Safari Privacy Breach
suraj.sun writes "Bloomberg is reporting on Google's negotiation with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission over 'how big a fine, which could amount to more than $10 million, it will have to pay for its breach of Apple's Safari browser. The fine would be the first by the FTC for a violation of Internet privacy as the agency steps up enforcement of the Web.' Last year, Google agreed to a settlement in which the FTC would monitor Google's privacy practices for an extended period of time. 'The 20-year settlement bars Google from misrepresenting how it handles user information and requires the company to follow policies that protect consumer data in new products.' This February, Google was found to be bypassing privacy controls in Safari by making the browser think a user was submitting a form, when they actually weren't. '(The code used by Google was part of its program to place the "+1" button in advertisements.) At the time, the company issued a statement saying that the circumvention wasn't intentional, but privacy groups were still quick to file complaints with the FTC over Google's actions. That was quickly followed by a class-action lawsuit and an investigation by European regulators.'"
Will Apple be fined for for the defects in their browser? This only gives Google more incentive to cover their tracks better.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
They were using a legitimate feature of the browser. It's not as if they were hacking/etc.. anyone can do this and submitting forms has been around since the web was born. If Apple wants to block cookies on 3rd party form submissions they can go right ahead. Until they do the blame is on Apple not Google.
AccountKiller
While Google and Apple carry some of the blame for this incident, don't forget that the users of both their products are to blame, too.
Even stupid people know that there are some neighborhoods in every city that you just don't go into if you know what's good for you. The same goes for computers and the Internet. There are some companies and product that you should stay the fuck away from if you care about your money, your privacy, and the security of your computers and their data.
If you're going to use Apple products, especially their closed-source apps, you'll need to accept that you'll be using software with bugs, and you likely won't have the freedom or ability to fix the problems yourself.
Likewise, if you're using any of Google's products (this includes not actively blocking their ads and other analytics crap), then you're basically saying you don't give a fuck about your privacy.
We don't feel sorry when some dipshit goes walking up and down Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard at night and gets robbed or even possibly killed. Similarly, we shouldn't feel sorry when some dipshit uses products from Apple and Google and gets screwed in some way for doing so.
Here's a case where the fines and costs were a couple of orders of magnitude in excess of the damages.
Michael Milken
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Milken
"The estimated injury for all counts combined was, by the judge's account, $318,000 and by the U.S. Probation Office's account $685,000.[12]
As part of his plea, Milken agreed to pay $200 million in fines. At the same time, he agreed to a settlement with the SEC in which he paid $400 million to investors who had been hurt by his actions. He also accepted a lifetime ban from any involvement in the securities industry. In a related civil lawsuit against Drexel he agreed to pay $500 million to Drexel's investors.[13][14] In total this means that he paid $1.1 billion for all lawsuits related to his actions while working at Drexel.
Critics of the government charge that the government indicted Milken's brother Lowell in order to put pressure on Milken to settle, a tactic condemned as unethical by some legal scholars. "I am troubled by - and other scholars are troubled by - the notion of putting relatives on the bargaining table," said Vivian Berger, a professor at Columbia University Law School, in a 1990 interview with the New York Times.[15] As part of the deal, the case against Lowell was dropped. Federal investigators also questioned some of Milken's relatives—including his aging grandfather—about their investments.[6]"
Summary:
the judge's account, $318,000 and by the U.S. Probation Office's account $685,000
As part of his plea, Milken agreed to pay $200 million in fines
He also accepted a lifetime ban from any involvement in the securities industry.
Originally sentenced to 10 years in prison
That is not "equitable".
The FEDGOV treasury was not damaged yet received and kept $200m. None of that was given to victims, real or perceived.
JJ
Safari lets the user choose in which situations cookies are accepted from a website. One of those situations is when the user fills out a form on the website, so clearly the user has knowingly interacted with the website. Google subverted this by secretly creating a form and pretending that it was filled out by the user, tricking Safari into accepting cookies. That was no accident, that was a deliberate trick to get around the user's privacy settings.
Since Google was on the hook for previous privacy violations, and had agreed to a settlement where they agreed that the FTC should check for further violations, a fine at this time is quite correct.
Google gets big, makes powerful enemies. News at 11.
Funny how we only really vague, trivial shit gets Google in to the court room.
For all those with a clue, Google's actions are really a workaround to a broken, stupid browser privacy scheme that does nothing to protect users from the real bad guys. Just a way to fix web pages for a browser that's not standards compliant. Many times less harmless to the hackery you have to commit to get a web page to work properly in IE6.
While all software has bugs and suffers from poor design decisions in some way, web browsers (and web technologies in general) are utterly rife with some of the stupidest mistakes known to mankind. These aren't mild mistakes, either. They're mindbogglingly stupid boondoggles. JavaScript is the biggest, filthiest computing mistake of all time, for example. But others, like cookies, are close behind. While the security implications are usually less severe, CSS is yet another example of one stupid decision after another.
It's time for the browser developers to get their acts together. Stop adding useless new features that are riddled with security flaws. Fix some of the existing problems, for crying out loud!
Microsoft only got 10 years, and they were not merely spying on people but also abusing their monopoly position to drive competitors out of business. (Kinda like what Comcast is doing now with Hulu, Amazon video streaming.) Google should receive a more-lenient settlement than 20 years.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
There is no expectation of privacy on the internet, irrelevant of the browser you use or the site you visit. I would LOVE for the government to pass a law specifically stating there were such an expectation... but to do so would mean they would have to obey the law as well. For the government to fine a business for privacy violations when the government itself is collecting far more sensitive information about us, for much more nefarious purposes than profits, is just silly.
Please allow me to explain. First, submitting forms via javascript is NOT anything new. Many sites do this, and for a variety of legitimate reasons. Hell, half the API's which insert remote JS files use forms for one thing or another, and if it's multipart and you want a progress bar, hey, look at that, a legitimate reason for using javascript to submit the form!
Just because Google did this does not mean it was intentional. But, sure, go ahead, keep your tin foil hat on and keep hiking that pitchfork in the air.
I wish it was more - Google deserves it. I don't get why they're allowed to NEGOTIATE their fine, though.
NOW will the tech community stop fawning over them? Google does NOTHING for the betterment of the web - it's all about money, data, and advertisers.
Second,
Google subverted this by secretly creating a form and pretending that it was filled out by the user, tricking Safari into accepting cookies.
So.. you think it's acceptable for Apple software engineers to rely on poor trigger mechanisms, but it's not acceptable for Google engineers to make a mistake and possibly be publicly humiliated for what was an honest engineer's decision regarding a common and fairly legitimate implementation?
Yeah, but these were users with Google accounts. They presumably *also* wanted their Gmail to work. So, what happens when the user wants two incompatible things? No cookies, but web services that need cookies?
What the fuck is this shit. When did they get authority over every fucking thing.
Whatever privacy violation Google committed here is diminutive in comparison to what our government does. Ironic that I just finished perusing this: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/05/04/1935210/fbi-we-need-wiretap-ready-web-sites-now
So, what about the defective Safari?
Did Google actually violate the law any more so than Apple by expecting all websites to behave?
As someone who has spent quite a bit of time dealing with quirks between the different browsers, it seems (barring evidence to the contrary) entirely possible that the developer may not even have just assumed they were working around a quirk.
$10 million, even $50 or $100 million isn't going to phase a company with google's revenues. they'll pay, admit to nothing, "promise" to do better (but not really do it).. life will go on and google will continue to trample on its users' privacy.
Last year, Google agreed to a settlement in which the FTC would monitor Google's privacy practices for an extended period of time
Does facebook have a similar agreement? This safari thing seems like peanuts compared to some of the stuff they pull. If I am wrong please feel free to explain to me how, I am not claiming to be an expert merely asking a question.
Can we just kill all these old fucks who don't know anything about computers?
I'm so tired of Google's arrogance that I will be very happy if they get fined 10million, even if that's pocket change for them. Bunch of arrogant assholes.
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Sundar Pichai is the utter asshole whose incompetence has resulted in the shutdown of Google's Atlanta office.