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Ask Slashdot: All-In-One PC For Kitchen?
New submitter brabq writes "Now that I have a couple of CableCard tuner devices in the house (including the network-based HDHomeRun Prime), I'm thinking of buying one of those all-in-one touchscreen PCs for our kitchen (yeah, something I've always sworn against for future repair reasons). The idea is that it would be used primarily for (1) watching TV, via the aforementioned Prime and WMC, and (2) light web surfing (recipes, some sort of video chat possibly). Does anyone have any experience with these types of devices in a kitchen-like setting (where I'd like to use a touchscreen over having a keyboard/mouse on a kitchen counter)? I keep hearing that Windows 8 is going to have some added benefits to this type of setup — is it worth waiting for its release? My end goal is it has to have a high WAF ... if my wife doesn't like its appearance on the counter or finds it useless, then the whole thing will be a waste."
But just buy a fucking iPad.
TODO: Something witty here...
Just buy an iPad. I understand the tendency of us geeks to over engineer everything but honestly as much as I don't like apple, after having one I use my laptop strictly for working from home. I have Netflix and YouTube for video and it's touchscreen like your asking for. Plus you say if your wife doesn't like the appearance then it's all a waste so why not just get a small 10" screen that you can easily take anywhere?
My wife uses an iPad for that all the time. She finds the iPad satisfactory for this purpose.
Mostly, she uses it for music and recipes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kitchen_computer_ad.jpg
lol, as soon as I read the summary I was thinking iPad. Looks like everyone else did too.
I'd make sure you have the ability to play from your music collection and listen to online radio.
some restaurant / fast food places have covers on the screens to try to keep them clean.
There's a kitchen model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeywell_316#Kitchen_Computer) with integrated cutting board.
I'd vote for an HP TouchSmart 610 myself, since it comes with a TV tuner and a remote controller. It also has a built-in Blu-Ray player and comes with a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse along with a touchscreen. I'd think that I would fit into a kitchen fairly well.
The only downsides I see is that TouchSmart's aren't cheap, and they do not have official Linux support. That said, I see them on sale all the time.
In the kitchen, I'd want to google stuff, and I'd find it easier to find recipes on the internet with a notebook, than with an ipad. A 13"notebook would be perfect for kitchen use, and I would use it on a swing-arm or else create a little wall-nook for it.
W
I think some people are missing the point. A monitor could do tv in from a cable box. Most providers DON'T have the app Cablevision has to view live tv on an iPad. Plus I think a bigger screen would be nice, 32" or something. If your hands are messy, you don't want to have to hold the tablet, or move it from table to counter so you don't have to keep moving to see its tiny print. A giant touchscreen pc could get more uses than a tablet.
An iPad is the elegant solution. You could even get creative and route out a place for one in a cabinet door so it was at eye level then use the adapter to keep it plugged in so you'd never have to charge it. They are instant on and if you have wifi set up you can download movies and music. Add in some bluetooth speakers and you get decent sound. Honestly you'll spend a nearly a grand getting a set up that will be bulky and take up counter space. Yes there are cheapie computers but they are large. I'm talking a nice machine that has a small foot print. I used to use Shuttle boxes which are around the size of a toaster but it's a build it yourself. Then you end up with a monitor and cords and it's not very portable. You even get Facetime with an iPad so you can do video calling. It's $500 bucks and you avoid a lot of grief and expense. If you leave it plugged in the battery life isn't an issue so it could easily last you five years with no maintenance.
... and time-intensive to be worth the effort. I've done the whole "roll your own" thing trying to build my own HTPC but man when you get a purpose-built box like a GoogleTV or Roku or Tivo it's just a 100% better, easier, and faster. You could engineer and build your own thing but unless you plan on making a career for yourself as an embedded hardware or software engineer, it just seems like a way to stuff time down a hole.
Go with a tablet. If the iPad is too expensive for you look at the Le Pan II, a 10" Android tablet that is under $300 and is considered very sturdy.
Here ya GO. Be sure and pick a spot where you can get at the reset button.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
Now you should start a discussion on where to buy a laptop lol
-Hashie @ trypnet.net
We have an HP TouchSmart PC in the kitchen, where the microwave used to be. No cable, just ethernet & it's used primarily for seaching for recipes. Can't user her iPad, as the grandkids commandeer that when we get home! It's also good for measurement conversion, Calorie counts, Product warnings/recalls, etc. There's a wireless mouse/keyboard & it's stayed clear of the flour/sugar problem we likely would have had by having it up higher than the countertop. With our own PC's elsewhere in the house - it's convenient just for what it was purchased for. If you want it to be static - get a PC, if you wish to have portability, then a tablet. Depends upon your expected usage & whether you're already WiFi or not.
an option is to buy a standalone touchscreen, it's readily available but very expensive. you can hook up anything to it.
in particular, many nettops or mini computers can be screwed on the back plate through VESA mounts so you can use an ARM net top, an Atom PC, something like the zotac zbox with an AMD E-350, etc. You get to keep the OS choice and double boot if necessary ; just make sure, if you want to try a linux based solution, to get hardware with usable graphics drivers for linux (dunno if atom is better than AMD there)
the touch screen is horribly expensive but you get a total cost similar to an All-in-one. and yes, windows 8 ARM or PC is the best solution, or using XP or 7 in the interim. or android is similar. it has an important checkbox, "can fucking use all functions included in the hardware". sent from my PC with permanently idle H264 decoder and 3D accelerator.
Touchscreen is kinda nice for tablets when you're moving around, but on the kitchen counter a laptop works great. I've had one there for a while. I would definitely go for something small and light (easy to get out of the way) like a laptop or tablet instead of an all-in-one.
I just use a proper stand that attaches under the cabinets and my usual work & play tablet. Mostly used for music and derping around on youtube, but for the most part other people are around and it's far more fun to be social than to be knee deep in gizmos. 95% of any recipe I might need to refer to is either already printed or from one of the many family recipe books we've made through the years/generations.
Ya'll probably need to get some priorities lined up. And yes, I'm from The South where cooking isn't a chore -- it's half the fun!
1. Download and install the Windows 8 Consumer Preview;
2. Realize that the Windows 8 Metro UI is the worst product Microsoft has ever made - worse than Bob or Clippy;
3. PROFIT from your new-found experience.
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
She's less likely to balk at something like that.
The trick will be attaching a monitor and kb in some fold-out arrangement.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
I have a tablet, namely an iPad, which I use in the kitchen on occasion. I would recommend a few apps for that: The All Recipes app; the Epicurious app; the Food Guru app. I'm sure that there must be apps about wine selection, and maybe even about beer, too.
For browsing, I'd recommend iCab. Atomic Web Browser is another good one. (iCab, as one of its many features, can synch its bookmarks with Dropbox, which I don't know if Atomic can, as of yet.) Either of those offers some more features than the conventional Safari mobile browser, in a pretty reliable browser platform. (App crashes seem like less of a concern, on the tablet platform, I think)
You can also take it outdoors with you - weather permitting, of course. There's pUniverseHD for iPad, when it comes to stargazing after dinner ;)
As far as TV, then, there's Netflix on iPad - it's close enough for my tastes ;) If you're into sports - Olympic sports, namely - Universal Sports has also put together an app for the 2012 Olympics kicking off in July. In the more "mainstream sports", and for existing cable subscribes - as I recall - there are apps from ESPN, also. Then there's RedBull TV, for the extremophiles in the family. If you're an existing cable subscriber, there are apps from HBO and I think from Cinemax, as well.
Lastly: For hanging it from the kitchen counter, Belkin makes a nice little temporary mounting bracket, and I'm sure there are more permanent options available. The major technology retailer, BestBuy, carries the Belkin bracket, in their iPad section.
Entertainment and utility abound on the well supported mobile platforms, these days - enjoy!
1: your wife will eventually find it useless.
2: the amount of smoke and grease in the air will eventually destroy though maybe not before #1 (even though you may not see smoke or grease it's there)
3: Why? Just get a $399 iPad or even better Kindle Fire, because you don't really need much in the kitchen correctly? Not like you're playing WoW while putting cheese sauce on your cheesecake.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
This sounds like the perfect application for a big ass table!
I think those are called a smartphone!!!!!
Sorry, but I have to say I use an iPad for recipes and (if I wanted to) TV in the kitchen. Works great, no hassles.
iPad and under cabinet mount/holder. You can watch HD home run channels and do everything else you need in a smaller and cheaper device that can also act as a tablet.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Nah. The real trick will be getting a Raspberry Pi.
But if he could actually get one, by the time the keyboard/monitor/mouse added, fold-out arrangement fabricated, time spent getting it all to work, he could've saved money buying a cheap tablet.
Do you need something tough and don't care about the price? Get an IBM POS (ok, now Toshiba) or the IBM Kiosk. URL seems to be broken now. http://www-03.ibm.com/products/retail/kiosk/industries/retail.html
and it wont let me put bread in it ....keeps popping it out....
Dell is releasing an all-in-one touch screen this fall...its going to have replacable parts, screen, motherboard, drives, etc... seviceable like a laptop is.
The real trick will be getting a Raspberry Pi.
he could've saved money buying a cheap tablet.
But then if his wife decides she doesn't like a computer in the kitchen, then he's left with generic parts and a Raspberry Pi (all imminently reusable for some other project) instead of an extra tablet.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/HP-Z1-Teardown/8840/1 My only concern would be cooking oils and fat ruining the touch screen.
Forget the software, just make sure the hardware is waterproof. I remember hearing of at least one recently. Pretty much any tablet on the planet will be able to handle the meagre demands you're putting on it, and if it's Linux or at least non-Apple you'll be able to fine-tune it's behaviour. On the other hand the kitchen is probably one of the messiest rooms in the house, any regularly used surface/tool/etc that can't be easily cleaned will rapidly become either a pain in the ass or a disgusting mess, especially if it's something you'll inevitably want to touch with messy hands while in the middle of cooking. The ability to just wipe it down with a damp/soapy rag instead of carefully using special cleaners will make a world of difference.
Also - you probably want to consider a strategically placed mounting bracket - counter space is valuable real estate. I might consider something that folds down from under a cabinet somewhere and has power wired to it so you never have to worry about recharging. The refrigerator door is another likely candidate. Also pay attention to where she spends most of here time while in the kitchen. At the stove? Sink? Counter? Ideal placement will allow convenient video chatting or recipe access while working at her preferred station. Don't get too close to the stove though - hot oil vapors condense on all nearby surfaces and can be a real challenge to clean.
Just keep in mind that you're looking to install an appliance in an extremely electronic-hostile environment, not a gadget. The fundamental design trade-offs you want to make are very different.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Yup. iPod in a baggie. And some kind of wall mount for it. If you decide you don't like it, you'll now have an iPod instead of a useless appliance.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I used to get excited for every single tech gadget out there, and would run to Amazon or the next shop to get it ASAP.
Maybe I'm getting old or maybe I'm becoming more and more environmentally-conscious, but the bottom line is :
You don't need it.
Nobody needs an All-in-one PC in the kitchen, nobody needs a web-enabled washing machine, nobody needs a beta firmware on its dishwasher, and nobody needs an LCD display on the fridge.
Those stuff just get obsolete after 2 years, and become "broken" even though their main utility would still work perfectly fine without the added useless complexity.
I expect my fridge, my dishwasher and my washing machine to still work in 10 years.
Your gadget will wind up in the dump in a few years.
... maybe I should have specified as to what the HD Homerun Prime (and any CableCard device) does, and why an iPad is not a solution. It tunes cable TV channels, and - unfortunately - the only OS/application combo that can display it is Windows Media Center in Windows 7 (+) ... thanks to all of the copy flags and encryption that our cable companies pump into the stream. Meaning, you cannot use any Mac, Linux, or other solution to watch TV on it, but you can Windows.
Also, I appreciate some of the comments here about that, yes, it's for the kitchen and yes, it's meant to be static. Basically, a most-oftenly-used-as-a-TV solution that also allows for computer usage that might be performed in the kitchen. Hopefully this clears things up a little bit!
Thanks for the comments so far!
What we need are networked sensors.
The stove doesn't need a computer. It needs to communicate with the everything else and possibly have servos so that it can be controlled remotely.
If every appliance could communicate with a centralized system we could do some pretty neat things.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Searching for recipes and surfing the web? I guarantee that printing something off from a PC that she can actually relax at is going to be more appealing.
Television? It really sounds like you're trying to justify the cost of getting the rest of your house wired up. How much time does anyone spend in there?
Video chat? Come on. A wireless phone with speaker function would sell itself much more easily, and wouldn't try to drag her into the scheme (or the kitchen) for novelty value.
That's what we did. Got a 21" wall mount monitor, above the fray, attached a bluetooth keyboard/mousepad combo ($25 off ebay) and youi're golden. A couple of speakers and you can do whatever you want. And best of all the only thing that can get trashed is the keyboard; you can keep spares in your drawer if you really want.
And yes we do use it as music background and to stream internet radio of all sorts.
Been there, done that, with a $250 Ergotron arm. Ipad wins hands down.
Good-bye
I'm happy to see that educated men still post here.
If all the people in the kitchen need is a media consumption device than any table will do fine. Beyond that you need something with a real keyboard and mouse. Speaking from experience here (I actually own an iPad, won as a door prize); tablets are okay if you don't need to enter much besides a short string of text. I wouldn't buy a replacement if the freebie I have gets broken.
Came across this looking for 12" Adnroid tablets for a project we're working on: http://www.ectworks.com/en/product1.asp?id=3
It even has a built-in stand. Here's a pic of the unit: http://www.ectworks.com/upfile/201061151416.jpg
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
I'm surprised by the number of people suggesting mounting an iPad or similar tablet. Yes, this does make a lot of sense. It makes even more sense to have a mount where you can put the iPad while you're cooking, then take it with you when you're done--this is ideal if you want to have an iPad anyway.
The problem is that you can't currently watch HD channels on an iPad. There is an app for $18 that will let you watch SD channels, but apparently the processor in the iPad can't do HD MPEG-2, or at least the writers of the app in question haven't figured out how to do it.
So with TV being the primary function, you need something that can handle TV.
Another issue is how your cable company sends the channels. Are all the channels you care about set to copy freely? If not, then you can only use solutions that are Cable Labs certified (that probably rules out any tablet apps or Linux solution).
Now, having said all that, I think I need to find a mount for our iPad to put on a cabinet in the kitchen.
Wait for release of Ceton Echo later this year. Size of your hand, low power (runs ARM), can stream channels from your HDHomeRun via an intermediary HTPC in your house running Windows 7. No rental box fees, and it should be able to play recordings from your HTPC.
While an HP TouchSmart might best meet the needs of the OP, one should not underestimate the utility of an iPad in a kitchen setting - it has a versatility not found in any All-In-One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcIwXVKQjsQ
Can't stand to be more than 15 feet from an active internet connection? I really don't get it.
The first spill and your out $600, go for a Pantech Element and get something cheaper and more durable.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Buy a Chumy, either the Chumby8 or the Sony Dash. http://www.chumby.com/
For kitchen use with dirty, germy, sticky hands, get a stylus for the touchscreen. These are cheap and work just as well as the more expensive ones. http://www.amazon.com/Capacitive-Cellphone-Motorola-BlackBerry-AMM0101US/dp/B0053NBLFW/ref=pd_cp_pc_0
I recommend a big tablet with a dishwasher-safe stylus.
The Belkin Kitchen Stand and Wand for Tablets is perfectly suited to this task, especially if your hands get yucky.
The big Vizio, Samsung Galaxy, and iPad fit right in.
Find it on AMZN and elsewhere. The Chef Sleeve for iPad is also helpful for following recipes.
Kriston
I helped develop several affordable apartment complexes that have a kitchen unit as you describe. I managed one of the buildings (36 units) and observed how the computers were used.
The residents qualified for living there based on their low income. There were no college grads. Some were too poor or ignorant to buy a proper computer.
Of the 36 units, about 10 used their computers, and that quite rarely (mostly the young children). I used mine sometimes to stream videos or music during extended kitchen stays. I did look up a recipe on two occasions in 15 months.
The computers had mouse and keyboard which could be removed as the touch screen served well for most activities. They were wall mounted to conserve counter space, and high enough to require effort for kids to reach. There were almost no maintenance problems.
There is probably a day coming when everyone has a computer in every room; but not as we know them now. Most likely a Siri type unit that speaks and listens and can play music or report news (no video). I can think of no good reason for anyone, educated or not, to have a permanent computer in their kitchen, bathroom or closet. I don't know anyone, male, female, young, old, rich, poor ... who would benefit from one enough to make it worthwhile.
...omphaloskepsis often...
I have a old but functional Compaq v5000 laptop running XP. Work fine for looking up recipes or surfing the web and I don't worry that much about spilling something on it
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
While I'm "platform-agnostic" and see no problem using Linux for projects, it bothers me too how often Linux is here the right way to do things or how open source makes everything automatically good. Almost never there is an article which would solely focus on Windows or Mac administration. It just paints a bit boring, one-perspective world view.
is one of these - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Compaq_TC1100
Has Wi-Fi, bluetooth, USB 2.0 and is very low-profile. Picked it up for $75
I appreciate everyone's comments. Especially those that are fans of a computer in the kitchen, that understand its utility. But I feel the need to state the following, based upon false assumptions here: (1) You cannot watch cable TV (non-broadcast channels) on any PC that is not running Microsoft Windows. This is a limitation of Cable Labs certification. What does this mean? The iPad is out. Linux (say, XBMC) is out. You can hate on Windows day in and day out, but Microsoft's pull here has made it an option. The PC can be booted/woken directly into Windows Media Center if desired, making it a TV first if desired (which will likely be the case here). (2) Some people may spend very little time in the kitchen (making a meal and eating, and that's it). For us, and seemingly for a lot of our friends, we spend a lot of other time in here (just got home from work - having a snack, friends are over drinking beer or wine, etc). To make the assumption that the kitchen serves one (very limited) purpose is naive. Our first kid is on the way, and - if he's anything like I was - the kitchen will become a place to do homework, and plan out school work. Obviously that's not going to happen with this PC (we've got time), but do I think that a PC in the kitchen in 12 years will be useful in this purpose? Absolutely. Every house is different, but a lot of us are in this boat. Thanks again for the help. Maybe I'll post pictures when I/we take the plunge. I have some more masterful plans as well. I intend to pursue an in-ceiling speaker system in at least this kitchen at the same time, meaning that this PC may turn into the jukebox/audio source ... for any sports fan that likes the idea of a kitchen TV/PC, you can imagine what a positive experience that this setup may provide (for me, college basketball on the TV and the kitchen alive with its audio).
With the price of tablets really dropping, I don't see any reason we couldn't create the that kind of device.
What I'd like to have in terms of functionality:
Wall mounted unit with a video camera
voice activated
video calling via skype
recipes accessible via voice (no mucky hands on the machine)
weather
defaults to a picture frame type slide show when not in use
remotely accessible for installing pictures and administering the unit
This is mostly the kind of device I'd like to put together for my grandparents who can barely turn on their TV.
The recipes aren't necessarily needed, but since I'm on the other side of the world now, the video calling and pictures are a must. Some light internet package with wifi would give them all they'd ever need since they don't even have a computer and it would let them stay in touch a lot easier. The only issue is the whole wall mounting vs camera.
If you're using it as a picture frame when not in use, it's a little tricky to mount it in such a way that you could leave it wall mounted for video chat and have it look okay as a picture frame.
Most people don't have their chairs facing the wall, except to face the TV if it's against a wall, but then you're sitting too far back to see a small tablet well and should go with a much larger screen.
I fully agree. We're talking about end users here, mainly (but not solely) housewives, who are least likely to want to write a Perl or Python script to change something already in there. iOS is already based on OS-X, which in turn is heavily based on FreeBSD, so what exactly would Linux be bringing that's not already there? If one is talking about locked-down, why would one care? Same goes for the submitter's question - if iPad is here today, and fully functional, why bother waiting for Windows 8, which may or may not give his wife what she needs? With iPad, they could visit a store, test drive it, and then decide whether it makes sense in their kitchen.
Better screen on the newer models (1920 x 1200 pixels), which makes them far better for web surfing those recipes. But yeh, current generation iPad is probably the best choice.
Whichever way, it should be a tablet he can move from room to room rather than stuck in the kitchen. You want to prep the recipe in the comfort of your living room, and if you're watching a video while its cooking, you might want to take it back to the living room.
We have a virtually identical setup. A few years ago we did a major kitchen remodel. At the time, we had a shelf area built in the cabinets for a microwave. Just as the kitchen was being completed, HP debuted there TouchSmart PC. I liked the All-in-One features, the large screen and the touchscreen capability. The kicker was if fit absolutely perfectly in the microwave shelf area. So we put the Touchsmart there and the microwave on the counter. It has been one of the best decisions we ever made. My wife and I use it daily, and our young kids love watching YouTube videos and doing Skype sessions with the rest of family on it.
Some things I learned along the way. I thought the touchscreen would be a great feature, in reality we never use it. HP's software is a little lame, but the bigger reason is people and software are just more accustomed to keyboard/mouse interface. Also, you really want it PC at eye-level. You don't want to bend down to type. I thought I would want some dedicated recipe application, but have found Google trumps all. Have played with both the cable TV interface and streaming movies, but have never used them in practice. The 4 main tasks it performs well; and are well suited for doing in the kitchen: 1) E-mail 2) Light web surfing 3) Calendar/Scheduling 4) Recipe quick-find
I have an O2 joggler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O2_Joggler) - it lacks the portability of the a tablet, but I can have my choice of OS, and it was only £50
Besides playing videos and music, I use mine as a media server for the flat, as well as security system.
I'd put an old TV and an old laptop in there. Maybe cover the keyboard with a plastic bag or even clingfilm.
That way when - not if - the grease, heat & steam cause them to fail it's no great loss.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Bought an HP all-in-one touchscreen about a year ago. Use it daily for reading news, music, recipes, etc. Very useful. Came with remote keyboard\mouse (have not yet had to change the batteries). We NEVER use the touch screen feature. it was cute to scroll with your finger like the iphone for the first few days but the screen gets so dirty it looks disgusting. Keyboard\mouse work fine and I think everyone has forgotten it has touch screen capabilities. I bought the good one with the multi-touch. I Could have saved a couple hundred if I had known we wouldn't use it.
With WiFi and a tablet, it's easy to pull live TV from your HTPC. If you use a tablet and a dry bag, you can run the whole mess next to an exploding blender without losing your investment.
Instead of disinfecting/replacing a keyboard/mouse when they get salmonila or ecoli on them, you'll now be replacing your all in one touchscreen ( you can't disinfect them, only certain mild cleaners are allowed).
I can't recommend more. Lifeproof is great.
Use your old laptop.
Just put some domopack on the keyboard. When not in use just fold it and put it out of the way.
I didn't see anything about teledildonics in his question.
HP Touchsmart or similar is pretty hard to beat for what he's talking about. It has Media Center built in that works a dream with a network tuner like the HDHomerun. It's a very very good HD DRV, you can pause and rewind live tv, record a ton of shows to the HDD, etc. Unless I missed something and the iPad has DVR apps for a tuner card, and some way around the paltry onboard memory for gigantic recorded tv files, you are stuck with live TV. Double ughhh.
It has Flash for all the recipes etc on all the websites all over the internet. Netflix of course. And screens that are vastly larger than an iPad. And an iPad is not 16x9, making it even smaller for tv format.
I'm not really sold on the touch thing even for this arrangement. Probably would appreciate the WMC remote that HP makes, very nice.
We have a little HP notebook in the kitchen - HP dm1z. Can share the HDHomerun with the other computers on the LAN.