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Researchers Conquer "LED Droop"

sciencehabit writes "Tiny and efficient, light-emitting diodes (LEDs) are supposed to be the bright future of illumination. But they perform best at only low power, enough for a flashlight or the screen of your cellphone. If you increase the current enough for them to light a room like an old-fashioned incandescent bulb, their vaunted efficiency nosedives. It's called LED droop, and it's a real drag on the industry. Now, researchers have found a way to build more efficient LEDs that get more kick from the same amount of current—especially in the hard-to-manufacture green and blue parts of the spectrum."

33 of 113 comments (clear)

  1. Let me guess by busyqth · · Score: 5, Funny

    The solution is called "LED Viagra"?

    1. Re:Let me guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Contact a doctor if you LED lasts more than 100000 hours.

    2. Re:Let me guess by Khyber · · Score: 2

      Fuck that, contact me, I'll give you a contract! The porn studios would love it!

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  2. Ahhh that explainsPhilips' LED bulb by cpu6502 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I guess that's why their new LED burns-up 26 watts but only created the equivalent of a 100 watt bulb. They are losing efficiency because the LEDs are being driven to high powers. (Lower power 25W or 40W bulbs only use 3 and 6 watts.)

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    1. Re:Ahhh that explainsPhilips' LED bulb by mlts · · Score: 2

      That does get me wondering... how better will bulbs made with this high current technology save electricity compared to other types of bulbs such as CFLs?

      Of course, compared to the old incandescent, they will do much better due to more light and not heat.

      Then there is usable life. With more current comes more heat, and heat is what trashes ICs.

    2. Re:Ahhh that explainsPhilips' LED bulb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's daft. With LEDs if you want more light, you simply use more LEDs. They are not bulbs, they're bloody diodes! Overdriving LEDs results in earth deaths, this has been known for 40+ years, keeping them within tolerances will ensure they'll last forever, or as near it in human terms.

    3. Re:Ahhh that explainsPhilips' LED bulb by ThePeices · · Score: 5, Funny

      " They are not bulbs, they're bloody diodes!"

      Nobody uses bloody diodes for lighting. Not only is it un-hygenic, the loss of efficiency due to transmitting the light through blood is unacceptable, not to mention the red tinge to the light itself.

      Everybody uses clean diodes.

    4. Re:Ahhh that explainsPhilips' LED bulb by X0563511 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think you mean lead painted with something else toxic to make it shiny?

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    5. Re:Ahhh that explainsPhilips' LED bulb by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Now add that uplights provide the best quality illumination by reflecting light off ceilings. So rather than typical ceiling cornices, run strip leds around the perimeter of a room, with switching control to allow various switching patterns for dimming ie all on, 1 in 2 on, 1 in 3 on etc. Of course no goofy light fittings like chandeliers or fake oil lamps etc. just quality energy efficient controllable lighting example http://www.leyton-lighting.co.uk/led-tape.asp.

      --
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    6. Re:Ahhh that explainsPhilips' LED bulb by tlhIngan · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's daft. With LEDs if you want more light, you simply use more LEDs. They are not bulbs, they're bloody diodes! Overdriving LEDs results in earth deaths, this has been known for 40+ years, keeping them within tolerances will ensure they'll last forever, or as near it in human terms.

      Problem is, driving more LEDs is tricky. Clusters wired in series a la Christmas lights die if one of the LEDs die (see Lights of America LED bulbs). Wiring them in parallel, you need to balance the current so one LED isn't being overdriven while the other is being starved for current.

      A proper LED bulb like philips often have a driver circuit per LED (when you're dealing with 5W LEDs, it's not a bad idea), but the downside is adding LEDs means adding a lot of cost in driver circuits.

    7. Re:Ahhh that explainsPhilips' LED bulb by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 2

      The full colour IP 65 with IR remote (5m) I bought a while back cost me E80 on a discount website. The dutch site I bought them at.
      The light intensity of 3 of them is "mood light". Not enough to read by but enough to have a background light while talking or watching a film.

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    8. Re:Ahhh that explainsPhilips' LED bulb by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 2

      That LED tape looks fun, pity there are no prices on their website.

      Go to any Chinese factory-outlet site like Alibaba or Dealextreme and you can buy these things in 10, 20, 50-metre rolls in any colour and power range you like.

    9. Re:Ahhh that explainsPhilips' LED bulb by cpu6502 · · Score: 2

      IMHO all this talk of "saving energy" with lighting is ridiculous.
      When I'm home I have 1 bulb burning. Sometimes none (I just use the light from the TV or LCD). That's 10 watts or 0.01 KWh per hour the bulb is on. Meanwhile my heat pump or air conditioner is running at 5,000 watts or 5 kWh per hour of use. We've totally messed-up our priorities by counting pennies and wasting dollars.

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  3. Dumb question by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why must a single LED provide all the light? Couldn't an array of, say, four LEDs, each equivalent to a 25W incandescent and using mirrors and/or lenses to even out the light distribution, get the same efficiency and substitute for a 100W bulb? Am I missing something obvious?

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    1. Re:Dumb question by cheater512 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'd prefer a led slab. Rather than individual 'bulbs' on the roof illuminating a room, whats wrong with making the roof its self a big led panel.
      Very even lighting, the individual leds would be very low current and relatively dim and it would look cool.

      Mind you making that much sillicon substrate probably wouldn't be cheap, but you could perhaps cheat a little and use a layer like a screen's backlight has so you have less actual illumination points and it spreads it evenly across the roof.

    2. Re:Dumb question by IANAAC · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why must a single LED provide all the light? Couldn't an array of, say, four LEDs, each equivalent to a 25W incandescent and using mirrors and/or lenses to even out the light distribution, get the same efficiency and substitute for a 100W bulb? Am I missing something obvious?

      That's exactly what is being done now with many of these "shed' lights. I purchased a couple of these that have 20 LEDs inside a casing that has a highly reflective back (they're attached to small solar panels) for my cabin, since our electricity is quite prone to outages from all the thunder/lightning storms we have in Northern Wisconsin. Each one is enough to illuminate a 10x12 room on their own. I can read comfortably with just this light from pretty mch anywhere in the room.

      They're not the prettiest lights, but I built a wood/translucent plastic shade, to make them at least a bit better looking. They also come with their own remote control switch so you can turn them on/off as you would any other sconce or ceiling light.

      It's only a matter of time before some decent designs start coming out for these things.

    3. Re:Dumb question by Guspaz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure, and lots of applications do that already. There are drawbacks though: cost and space, for one thing, not to mention the different optical properties (focusing one light source versus focusing many).

      If your sole goal is to just pump out a ton of light regardless of the cost or space, that's not a problem. But if you care about cost, or need to focus the light in a specific manner, it's a problem.

      I suspect this is one of the reasons why LED-based projectors are still incredibly dim.

    4. Re:Dumb question by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That's impossible. Lights have to be in a bulb shape, because that's how they've always been, and people don't like change. Look how well circular fluorescent bulbs went over: like a lead balloon. Fluorescent bulbs in general only started taking off in residential applications when they made them so they'd fit in existing fixtures, which themselves aren't significantly changed in 100 years. Even worse, lamps aren't much different from the days when they were powered by gas: anyone who's built their own lamp (the kind that sits on a table, like a reading lamp) knows this: all the "electrical" parts are actually brass rods and fittings that were originally designed for gas, and were repurposed for wires, even though running lamp cord through them (particularly the joints) is a giant PITA and really doesn't make any sense.

      Offices can do different things, like use 2x4 fluorescent fixtures, because they're more worried about efficiency (part of operational costs) and because they don't have dimwit cheap-ass home "builders" building them.

    5. Re:Dumb question by uncqual · · Score: 2

      Much better than that.

      He has one small solar panel on the roof which powers the LED light in one room. Then he has a solar panel in that room which captures light from that room's LED to power the LED light in a second room. Then he has a solar panel in the second room which captures light from its LED light to power the LED light in a third room. Then he has a solar panel in the third room which captures light from its LED light to power the LED light in a fourth room. Then he has...

      At night, he just shines an LED flashlight at the solar panel on the roof. This keeps all his rooms lit for several hours after dusk.

      It also keeps most of the solar panels protected from the elements and puts them in places easy to clean.

      Damn, I wish I had patented that idea.

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    6. Re:Dumb question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Dunno. That idea sounds pretty cool to me. Instead of having a flourescent lighting fixture in something like a dropped ceiling you could have LED panel that fits in the same place as one of those plaster tiles. Not quite one huge panel, but a more reasonable adaptation. If it's done right it shouldn't weigh any more than a typical ceiling tile either. Also, because it's not a fixture, if you don't like where the light is, it would be easy to swap it out with an adjacent ceiling tile. (Well, provided the cable drop for powering it is long enough. Never know what electricians do up there until you look inside the drop ceiling anyways.)

    7. Re:Dumb question by IANAAC · · Score: 4, Informative
      You joke, but actually, each light array has a small 6x6 inch panel that your could mount either outside or hang in a window (the power cord from panel to battery pack is 16 ft. long). They provide enough energy to store in the enclosed small battery packs to last about 12 hours a charge. It's really not a bad solution to the problem.

      In any case, energy is energy, whether it's generated at a coal plant and then distributed or directly to a battery pack for later use.

      My point was really that, while they're currentlly not the most attractive lighting, that won't always be the case - they can be made fashionable as well as usable.

    8. Re:Dumb question by dadioflex · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's impossible. Lights have to be in a bulb shape, because that's how they've always been, and people don't like change.

      I suspect in a lot of households, one half doesn't care what their "light bulbs" look like so long as they save them money, and one half doesn't care how much they cost to run so long as they look right in their decorative light fixtures. Typically the "it has to look right" half wins the buying decision.

  4. Re:Clarify this for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ahite LEDs of various color spectrums are totally different. They usually have a phosphorescent coating that creates the white light. The blue and green LEDs mentioned are single spectrum blue and green lights.

  5. Though not a problem for blue by Trogre · · Score: 4, Funny

    If you increase the current enough for them to light a room like an old-fashioned incandescent bulb, their vaunted efficiency nosedives.

    Apparently this droop issue is only a problem for non-blue wavelengths. At least if my subwoofer, PC and external HDD are anything to go by...

    My eyes hurt.

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    1. Re:Though not a problem for blue by Khyber · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, that's just because blue is a higher energy potential. Blue wavelengths especially have hazard warnings, as that wavelength has known issues with triggering macular degeneration or making it worse.

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  6. Re:Clarify this for me by slew · · Score: 4, Informative

    Typically a "green" produced by GaN is fairly easy to manufacture and fairly efficient, but it is physically a very *hard* material. In contrast, the "blue-green" produced by InGaN (an alloy of a little bit of InN and base of GaN) isn't as efficient as it tends to have lots crystal defects and these defect cause brittle-ness and results in some electron-hole recombinations to be non-radiative (generating heat and not band-gap light emissions).

    Regardless of this manufacturability issue, many white LEDs use an InGaN band-gap devices and create the "warmer" parts of the spectrum using phosphors. This makes most of the output light more blue-ish, but only the phosphor re-radiated (stoke's shifted) part in the warmer part of the spectrum where you pay the efficiency cost. For "cool" devices, less of the output is down-converted, so you have less efficiency loss. For "warmer" devices, more of the light is down converted and you pay for more conversion efficiency loss. Some warm devices actually have multiple LEDs (say a red, green, and blue), but color stability is generally hard to maintain over time and temperature, so these devices are generally less efficient and more expensive.

    In any case, the effect that was described is that the currently "cheap" way of growing GaN base crystals for LEDs results in a polar orientation which is bad for high-current operation as it tends to generate a back field. This is described in more detail in this other site:

    Most of the commercial GaN devices are grown along the [0001] direction, so-called “polar” or “c-plane” structures. However, there is an internal electric field perpendicular to the active regions in the c-plane devices as the c-axis is polar. This will result in band bending and a poor overlap of electron and hole wave-functions (the Quantum confined Stark effect, or QCSE), which reduces the radiative recombination efficiency and affects the device performance. In order to avoid (or reduce the effects of) the QCSE, GaN can be grown in “non-polar”, or “semi-polar”, orientations, in which there is no, or much less, internal polarization fields along the growth direction. In theory, this should increase the efficiency of light emitting structures. The high density of structural defects (such as basal plane stacking faults and partial dislocations) in heteroepitaxially grown non-polar and semi-polar GaN results in low internal quantum efficiency and output power of the devices, as reported in the literature.

    Of course the answer is to just grow low-defect GaN in a non-polar or semi-polar orientation, but that's currently hard to do. These UCSB researchers aren't the only group working on this problem, but they apparently have done some cooperation with people doing actual manufacturing (Mitsubishi Chemical).

  7. Re:poor quality components by fast+turtle · · Score: 2

    and yet I just bought a 30 pack of 40 watt Incadescent bulbs for better lighting and environmental efficiency - No Mercury. Do they burn out any faster? Not as far as I've seen based on the quality of the damn CFL bulbs we've been able to get cheaply. Those don't last anylonger then an incadescent bulb and have mercury in them plus they look horid where I really need them.

    What I'm doing now is moving towards the halogen based 12v bulbs in low voltage track light systems. quite a bit of light and can be run straight from a 12v source w/o converting to AC first. Very nice as I'm also moving off the grid and beginning to switch to a PV array due to planned rolling blackouts by Edison International this year. Getting tired of having my power go out every damn summer because no one want's to invest in power line maintenance.

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  8. Re:I hope not... by Qzukk · · Score: 2

    I have a DVR with a blue power LED on front that apparently is just the right wavelength to be screwed with by my glasses. As I move my head around (or just move my glasses around) the LED appears to move around on the front of the thing. The closer to the edge of my glasses, the farther the displacement. I can even get it to overlap the other LEDs if I turn far enough, so it seems to just be that wavelength of light that's distorted, and it has to be a fairly narrow band that is affected since I've never noticed it anywhere else.

    Drives me crazy sometimes, I try not to look at it.

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  9. Re:poor quality components by wrook · · Score: 3, Informative

    CFLs burn out quickly if you cycle them. Once you turn them on, they shouldn't be turned off for 20 minutes. This makes them less than ideal for some locations (like the bathroom, hallway, etc). I currently have CFLs as the main lighting in areas like the living room, but LEDs in other areas. LEDs are expensive, but it's not like I'll starve if I spend a couple of hundred dollars on lights. Prices are dropping fast (at least here in Japan). It wouldn't surprise me if the cost per lumen approaches CFLs soon.

    I've never been one to dislike CFLs. Personally, I like the color of "daylight" bulbls *much* better than incandescent. But I must say that I like my LEDs better than the CFLs. The biggest issue is that the lumens don't drop off as quickly through use. They also come to full brightness more quickly (basically instantly). I will probably switch over completely in the next couple of years.

  10. Incandescent inneficiency by rossdee · · Score: 2

    Since the have laws banning incandescent bulbs because they are inneficient, when are they going to do something about the large incandescent light source 92 million miles away? Not only is it inefficient, it is the major cause of global warming.

    (PK so there might be some issues of jurisdiction, but the owner of said light source (Oracle) is in this country...

  11. Re:Clarify this for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Slew is somewhat correct. The nonpolar/semipolar substrates are currently very expensive and small (1 sq. inch at best, compared to 12sq. inches for sapphire substrates that all commercial LED's, except Soraa's, are currently grown on). It has been prohibitively expensive for any other academic institution to do any meaningful research on nonpolar/semipolar GaN LED's and lasers. That is unlikely to change anytime soon. There are industrial companies working on it though. A few Japanese companies and the startup company owned by the UCSB professors, Soraa. This article does give a lot of hype, the 20-2-1 LED's aren't quite the magic bullet that it implies. But nonpolar/semipolar LED's probably are the future once Soraa, Ammono, or Mitsubishi Chemical figures out how to grow large bulk GaN nonpolar/semipolar crystals by the ammonothermal technique. Soraa is releasing (or already released?) an LED based on nonpolar/semipolar technology this year, and lasers probably later this year or next.

    There are some good c-plane LED's for sure. Nichia's best c-plane LED's probably have 95% PEAK internal quantum efficiency, but they still have droop problems and are expensive.

  12. Re:poor quality components by sunspot42 · · Score: 3, Informative

    >I just bought a 30 pack of 40 watt Incadescent bulbs for better lighting and environmental efficiency - No Mercury.

    Unless coal is used to generate some - or worse most - of the electricity where you live, in which case powering those incandescent bulbs will release far more mercury into the environment than an equivalent number of CFLs would.

    Worse, the mercury that comes from burning coal isn't elemental mercury, as you'd find in a CFL. Which means it's far more easily absorbed by living things like us.

  13. Re:I hope not... by necro81 · · Score: 2

    just the right wavelength to be screwed with by my glasses. As I move my head around (or just move my glasses around) the LED appears to move around on the front of the thing. The closer to the edge of my glasses, the farther the displacement.

    It's called chromatic aberration, and it is an unavoidable effect of light passing through lenses. When light passes through a lens, it gets bent, which is the whole point. But the amount of bending is wavelength-dependent, and so most lenses will act a bit like a prism and spread the spectrum of the incident light. The stronger the lens, the greater the bending, the more pronounced the effect. The effect is more or less nonexistent along the optical axis, but becomes more pronounced as you go out towards the edges of the lens, where there is both more material to refract through, and the deflection angle is that much greater. This is one reason why big telescopes don't use lenses except for the objectives: the big lenses you'd need for a big telescope would produce too much aberration. Reflector telescopes are, for the most part, immune to this effect, because a mirror reflects all (visible) wavelengths equally.

    For myself, with worse than -6 diopter, polycarbonate lenses, I've just learned to live with the effect. It can actually be kinda fun, because it can be like wearing a spectrograph: by putting a light source off to one side of my field of view, I can see the constituent wavelengths. There is no noticeable effect when looking straight ahead.