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UK In Danger From Electromagnetic Bomb, Says Defense Secretary

judgecorp writes "Britain must build defenses against an EMP bomb, the UK Secretary of Defense Phillip Hammond told a conference today. Electromagnetic Pulse devices mimic the result of a solar flare or a nuclear explosion in the atmosphere, creating a storm of electromagnetic radiation, which can break mobile networks and satellite systems. Any preparation for solar storms must also consider the possibility of deliberate electromagnetic events, warns Hammond."

62 of 268 comments (clear)

  1. US and UK, best friends forever by HighTechDev · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's funny how similar (and crazy) both US and UK are while rest of the world lives in peace.

    1. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by jimmydevice · · Score: 5, Funny

      This will take needed money from the initiatives to protect the country from zombies, aliens and robots.

    2. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Especially robots. The threat of an electromagnetic bomb is the only reason they haven't attacked yet. They'll revolt the moment this threat is neutralized.

    3. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by zippo01 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What is your supporting evidence that the rest of the world is living in peace? Syria? Libya? North Korea? Iran? Or some combination of all of them?

    4. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by captainpanic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What is your supporting evidence that the rest of the world is living in peace? Syria? Libya? North Korea? Iran? Or some combination of all of them?

      There are other countries too. Cherrypicking the 4 unsafest countries is not going to convince me that the world is at war.

      Anyway, I am not buying the latest scaremongering story that demands we spend more on defense.

    5. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The rest of the world lives in peace?

      You're delusional, my good chap.

      There are genocides in Africa, civil unrest and brutal crushing of riots across the largely dictator-led Middle East and North Africa, Israel-Palestine conflict, drug fueled organized crime in Central and South America threatening to tear countries apart, China and India crushing and slowly eradicating Tibet and Nepal, tribal warfare, civil war in tribal areas of Pakistan, in South Philippines, genocide in West Papua.

    6. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by Kergan · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's funny how similar (and crazy) both US and UK are while rest of the world lives in peace.

      This world in peace features another two States with a long history of warmongering, China and Russia, a whole continent (Africa) in which armed conflicts occurred perpetually for most of the last 50 years, a latent nuclear standoff between India and Pakistan (and China) over Kashmir, as well as actual and latent wars across the Middle East. I'd add Columbia and Mexico, but one could conceivably argue that these are small guerrilla conflicts.

    7. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seriously, are all the threats realistic, or does the UK government suffer from a paranoid syndrome? At least once a week /. exposes a new plan in the UK to a) add cameras somewhere b) spy/censor Internet c) control this or that and now d) defense against EMPs.
      The coming Olympics are maybe an excuse^w reason? Or maybe we should prohibit the 8 seasons of Jack Bauer / 24 to be sold in the UK?

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    8. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by AngryOldGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Could you please citate any real warmongering that China or Russia have done? My understanding is that they have only cared about their internal politics. Only when threat from the US has arisen they have had the need to answer.

      For me, both China and Russia seem much more peaceful than US.

    9. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by zippo01 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are many levels between war and peace. I never said the world was at war, but it's not at peace.

    10. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by Chrisq · · Score: 2

      It's funny how similar (and crazy) both US and UK are while rest of the world lives in peace.

      Yes its a shame we are not like those peaceful Muslim countries: Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, the Sudan, etc.

    11. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seriously, are all the threats realistic

      Um, no. The amount of energy needed to generate a worthwhile EMP is in the nuclear bomb/solar flare range.

      If you're a terrorist with that much energy in a transportable package the last thing you'll be thinking of doing with it is taking out a couple of cellphone towers.

      --
      No sig today...
    12. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let's see:

      * Syria hasn't started any wars that I know of. It is, however, being threatened with war by the US, UK, and France.
      * Libya didn't start any wars, either. It was attacked by the US, UK, and France.
      * North Korea is ruled by a dictator who oppresses his people but hasn't started any wars.
      * Iran hasn't started any wars but has certainly been attacked by a US proxy.

      So what does that tell us about which countries want to live in peace, and which ones don't?

    13. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What's unsafe about Iran? And why is it not peaceful? I don't remember Iran invading other countries and building military bases all over the world.

      Get a fucking clue.

    14. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Syria: civil war.
      Libya: civil war.
      North Korea: The new dictator hasn't had any time to start wars but under the previous dictator, a South Korean warship was blown up while standing in international waters. That's an a act of war.
      Iran: Finance several groups that conduct war actions against other countries, thus engaging in war by proxies.

    15. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by arth1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What's especially ironic is that Iran had a democratically elected government until it was deposed of by the US in operation Ajax.

    16. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by bpsbr_ernie · · Score: 2

      Why? They smell like Skittles...

    17. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by queazocotal · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "With EMP bomb, unlike a nuke, you don't waste energy to generate EMR in all the spectrum, with all the unneeded parts like visible light, IR and UV, and heat up surroundings to rather uncomfortable temperatures." - technically true, but somewhat misleading.

      Around 0.1% of energy goes into EMP.
      For a ten kiloton device, this is still the equivalent of 10 tons of explosive - in EMP.
      But - a flux-compression-generator converts about a third of the energy into electricity, and then you get about half from the transmitter, if lucky.

      So, to get the equivalent EMP to a 10 kiloton nuclear device, you need of the order of 60 tons of explosives alone.
      The generator is likely to double that, and the transmission antenna and magnetrons (which have to be physically large so they don't just arc across) double it again.

      So, of the order of 250 tons.
      This is 'problematic' to get to a high altitude, where it needs to be, to have more than a local effect.
      I note 10 25 ton truck bombs are going to be able to wreck large portions of most financial districts, and be considerably cheaper.

      'terrorist' EMP weapons with more than a local (building or three) scale are fantasy.

    18. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by Kergan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Could you please citate any real warmongering that China or Russia have done?.

      Could you please hop over to Google and lookup suggestions that turn up when you enter "Russian conquest of" or "Chinese territorial claims"? There are far too many to enumerate here.

    19. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by queBurro · · Score: 2

      how is blowing up Pan AM 103 not an act of war?

      --
      sag
    20. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by RaceProUK · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Correction: we have a small number of sociopaths who think the best way to solve the world's problems is by blowing up innocents. And by small, I mean a dozen or so. Labelling them Muslims is about as relevant as labelling them cheese.

      --
      No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
    21. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by Nocturnal+Deviant · · Score: 2

      Iran is in no way peaceful. They harass diplomats from tons of countries. They have a supreme sense of entitlement. Also while I have quite a few Muslim friends in middle eastern countries they are scared to speak out about any of the specific issues due to the fact that they HONESTLY believe that they will not live to see morning if they do.

      Does that sound peaceful to you?

      --
      -Noc
    22. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by goose-incarnated · · Score: 2

      The rest of the world lives in peace?

      You're delusional, my good chap.

      There are genocides in Africa, civil unrest and brutal crushing of riots across the largely dictator-led Middle East and North Africa, Israel-Palestine conflict, drug fueled organized crime in Central and South America threatening to tear countries apart, China and India crushing and slowly eradicating Tibet and Nepal, tribal warfare, civil war in tribal areas of Pakistan, in South Philippines, genocide in West Papua.

      Thank god I live in South Africa, then ...

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    23. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by dkleinsc · · Score: 2

      I think what GP is referring to is that the last time Iran attacked a foreign country was when they went after Iraq (partially at the behest of the Reagan administration) back in the 1980's. More to the point, there's no credible evidence that Iran presents a serious threat to the civilian population of US, UK, or Israel.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    24. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by FhnuZoag · · Score: 2

      Uh... why is the parent marked as troll? It's basically factually correct.

    25. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Syria: civil war.

      Not really, it's Libya-style revolutionaries trying to take over the country. The US even asked the UN for a no-fly zone so they could give the revolutionaries air support like they did in Libya.

      Libya: civil war.

      Again, revolutionaries funded and advised by the West destroyed what used to be the most prosperous country in Africa. They wouldn't have been able to do it without the help of NATO which bombed cities in blatant violation of their UN mandate.

      North Korea: The new dictator hasn't had any time to start wars but under the previous dictator, a South Korean warship was blown up while standing in international waters. That's an a act of war.

      There are doubts as to whether it was an attack by North Korea, as the South Korean press points out. So before you cry "act of war", make sure you're not falling for another Tonkin incident.

      Iran: Finance several groups that conduct war actions against other countries, thus engaging in war by proxies.

      Countries like occupied Palestine, or occupied Iraq? That's not really fighting against those countries, but helping them against an occupying military.

    26. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Psst tell the UK not to go to this naughty website http://www.amazing1.com/emp.htm. Building a EMP device seems to be a very popular topics indeed. China get's in on the game http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/07/24/china-developing-super-nuclear-electromagnet-pulse-bomb-future-war-41021/, I suppose when numbers are on your side taking the whole world back to the early gunpowder age makes sense. Of course in autocracies losing control really tends to blow up in your own face.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    27. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      This will take needed money from the initiatives to protect the country from zombies, aliens and robots.

      You laugh, but I have it on good authority that the alien problem is a real threat in the UK. If it wasn't for this government consultant that goes by 'the Doctor' we would have all been destroyed or at least conquered several times over.

    28. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 2

      North Korea - Is currently at war with South Korea

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    29. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by CastrTroy · · Score: 2

      I guess it depends on your sense of scale. Compared to the holocaust, that's just peanuts. For all the war in the world, and all the coverage of all the wars on news networks and the internet, there sure seems to be a lot less actual dying going on in wars in the last 30 years. The fact that every person who dies in Iraq seems to get his picture in the paper is a far cry from where we were in Vietnam. 1.177 Million military men died in vietnam (all sides considered), and millions of civilians (estimates vary a lot). Iraq only had about 30,000 military deaths on either side, and civilian deaths are under 200,000. And yes, I said only, because it depends on your sense of scale. Vietnam was peanuts compared to WW I.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    30. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Funny

      Too many people seem to suffer from "If I Imagine It, The Terrorists Can Build It And Thus We Need To Protect Against It" Syndrome. Of course, the cynic in me thinks that this syndrome is encouraged by people who have a financial stake in protecting against the threat. In unrelated news, the terrorists might build a giant, robotic monster to stomp through New York City. Clearly, we need to head them off by building our own giant, robotic monsters to protect against those. Luckily, my company can build those if given a billion dollar contract. You don't want the terrorists to win, do you?

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    31. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by AioKits · · Score: 2

      That's okay, I'm using Old Glory Insurance. It'll protect me, when the metal ones attack.

      --
      "Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted." -Groucho Marx
    32. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by geekymachoman · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ok, parental advisory ahead. Might be modded as troll, because people here really piss me off with their ignorance and fucking opinions that are nothing more then text-book propaganda, and I'm reading it every god damn day, and keeping silent about it.

      Yeah. Civil wars because "your" Government wants it, and initiates such things through NED and other organizations in foreign states. I'm Serbian btw, you did same here (in Yugoslavia). Your government (with a blessing of its people) systematically destroyed lives of countless generations in just one state. Now go to google and search for all the wars you initiated, then think of all those people living in those states, that have done nothing wrong in their life. Fuck you if you say it's collateral damage, because everything is not black and white and if you can't figure that out on yourself, then I won't bother wasting my time explaining and discussing anything with people like you.

      Every fucking war in last whatever years has been initiated in some way by western powers, for their own interests / or when the banana state stops obeying your governments or when corporate interests are there, and many other reasons.

      And you're clueless about such things. Which is why you're country is constantly at war with someone, and killing off people of some country (when you kill people it's in the name of "democracy" and "freedom " - fucking hypocritical lying fascist bastards).

      You should all be ashamed of yourself for letting these thing happen. But you'll run away and stick your head into the sand and behave like nothing is happening (again), because you either don't care or you're too dumb to "figure it out". You'll come here to comment about it, and then in few months/years go vote for next war mongering overlord which is gonna continue killing people in the name of above mentioned freedom and democracy.

    33. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by RaceProUK · · Score: 2

      If I'm understanding correctly, that means the UK could have used the IRA attacks to invade Ireland? I do hope that's not what you meant; I'd hate to think how quickly such logic would lead to a truly total world war.

      --
      No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
    34. Re:US and UK, best friends forever by eyenot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      added to the list of wars I'd like you to explain how the West was the one who started it:

      * Serbs vs. Croats
      * Serbs genocide against Turks

      Let me hear the deep intrigue and mind-blowing web of conspiracy you conjure up to explain your own people killing women and children in the name of ethnic "cleansing".

      "Cleansing", by the way, is a term first used (to describe genocide) by a Serb.

      --
      "Stratigraphically the origin of agriculture and thermonuclear destruction will appear essentially simultaneous" -- Lee
  2. We're in danger from everything and we need by GauteL · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ..an infinite amount of money to protect us.

    Seriously. If the ministry of defence thinks we need to protect from this they can evaluate it up against other threats and spend their existing money accordingly.

    1. Re:We're in danger from everything and we need by alostpacket · · Score: 3, Funny

      Exactly. This money should be spent preparing for the zombie apocalypse.

      --
      PocketPermissions Android Permission Guide
    2. Re:We're in danger from everything and we need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let me explain something to you.

      A few years ago a substantial part of the research division of the Ministry of Defence was privatised (!) as a mysterious firm called "Qinetiq" and now much of it belongs to US businesses (!!). This research arm then sells back to the MoD at a profit.

      The absurd arrangement means that a great part of the MoD's remit is now to provide corporate welfare to the US "defense" industry. If the MoD say they need something, what they actually mean is that one of their friends is selling something.

      If you thought that the US government was corrupt, they are nothing on the UK. Over the last fifteen years our government's only progress has been a year on year increase in the amount of money it channels to private businesses.

    3. Re:We're in danger from everything and we need by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      ministry of defence

      Don't confuse the minister and the ministry. The MoD can be a bit useless at times, but they're not generally publicly moonbat-crazy. They leave that to the elected officials.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  3. I expect typical british responce... by Erikderzweite · · Score: 2

    Although I am not sure where will they place CCTV cameras this time?

    1. Re:I expect typical british responce... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      In the event of an EMP disaster all lamp posts will be manned by a government sketch artist...

  4. Non nuclear by Dupple · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's possible to generate an EMP without nuclear detonation using an 'explosively pumped flux compression generator'. It's range is limited compared that of an nuclear generated EMP.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse#Non-nuclear_electromagnetic_pulse

    --
    Watch those corners
    1. Re:Non nuclear by blind+biker · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you're going to cite Wikipedia, you could do a minimum effort and link to the correct article:
      Explosively pumped flux compression generator

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    2. Re:Non nuclear by semi-extrinsic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Keywords: "explosively pumped", meaning you need lots of explosives. If there are terrorists in the UK with lots of explosives, I don't think they will use them for making EMPs.

      --
      for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
  5. Obvious solution by detritus. · · Score: 4, Funny

    We must attack the Sun because it hates our freedom, our way of life and wants to destroy us.

    1. Re:Obvious solution by Sesostris+III · · Score: 2

      We must attack the Sun because it hates our freedom, our way of life and wants to destroy us.

      Well, the ex-editor of the Sun has just been charged with 'perverting the course of justice' so I suppose that the attack is well underway!

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18062485

      (Yes I know it's a different 'Sun' but I couldn't resist!).

      --
      You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. - Blake
  6. Third World Standards Infrastructures by golden+age+villain · · Score: 2

    " UK In Danger of Having Third World Standards Infrastructures "

    There, fixed the title. A chance our taxpayers money is wisely spent to upgrade London in the wake of the Olympic Games.

  7. News! Defence sec. says spend money on defence! by fantomas · · Score: 3, Funny

    Breaking news at 11! UK Defence secretary says we must spend more money on defence and other military things! Demands greater slice of government budget!

    Coming up shortly on this channel - Health minister argues more must be spent on hospitals, Rural Affairs spokesman demands urgent spending on rural schools, says education of rural kids being neglected.

    1. Re:News! Defence sec. says spend money on defence! by jimmydevice · · Score: 3, Funny

      This sounds like a warped expansion pack for simcity.

    2. Re:News! Defence sec. says spend money on defence! by u38cg · · Score: 2

      In fairness, Phil Hammond is by no means a desktop warrior. He's managed to rein in the MOD budget, something I didn't think I'd ever see. And he certainly doesn't come across as someone who enjoys playing soldiers.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    3. Re:News! Defence sec. says spend money on defence! by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      He's managed to rein in the MOD budget,

      Um yeah.

      For some reason, the MoD is required by successive governments to hurl money ar BAe systems, despite barely counting as a UK company these days, and other large, expensive purchases like the Eurofighter and F35 are all politically made.

      What he's managed to do is cut all the useful stuff whilee still burning huge amounts of money on the insanely expensive political contracts.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    4. Re:News! Defence sec. says spend money on defence! by Dominic · · Score: 2

      Actually, our Health Secretary (minister) Andrew Lansley is cutting funding and systematically destroying healthcare, so no, not all ministers will argue that their area is the most important.

  8. Pedant's corner by Sesostris+III · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apologies for being pedantic, but it's 'Defence' in the UK, not 'Defense'. The article got it right.

    --
    You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. - Blake
  9. Re:Yay fearmongering by azalin · · Score: 2

    Has anyone, anywhere, managed to build a serious one yet? One you can actually deploy without also triggering a nuclear holocaust in the process? Because in that case we have bigger problems than a few fried bits of kit.

    There are some small scale versions but I think the bigger reasons to research protective measures would be natural events (like solar flares) or the fear of an rogue nuclear device. The later is rather improbable (apart from the primary issues of having a nuke exploding in a major city) and the later usually not strong enough to cause widespread serious damage. Still it might be a field worth at in order to protect sensitive and expensive electronics.
    The military grade EMP hardened chips provide probably more protection than you really need and are much slower and more expensive than standard industrial grade hardware.
    Car analogy: A reinforced frame, airbags and seat belts provide enough protection for the more common scenarios, even though driving a tank would offer more.

  10. Re:Really? by azalin · · Score: 2

    Even if you where truly paranoid, a safely stored replacement system for some key infrastructures would do. Which wouldn't be such a bad idea anyway.

  11. New Country Same Shit by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Newt Gingrich and company have been scaremongering about EMP bombs for years now.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    1. Re:New Country Same Shit by Technician · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Proper surge protection, spark gaps, low pass filters, etc provide a high degree of protection. Narrow band antennas of a grounded design such as a yagi, will recieve power within it's passband.

      Unshielded electronics such as your clock radio are hard to protect. Shielded equipment with power filtering, metal cases, over voltage protection, etc are relatively safe. Your desk top computer has an antenna wire attached to the keyboard and mouse, so these are vunerable. A traditional RFI metal case tower PC with all external cables removed would make a nice spare that can be quickly deployed after an attack.

      A single point ground at the utility power and telcom entry into a building provides high levels of protection against the lower frequency components of an EMP as MOV, Spark Gap, and other protection is fast enough to ground it. A noise filter for the house power will block the higher frequencies so the over voltage devices can protect the load.

      http://www.ese.upenn.edu/detkin/instruments/misctutorials/Ground/grd.html

      Proper grounding, noise filtering, shielding, and overvoltage protection will provide a high degree of protection to EMP.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  12. Re:EMP Bombs? Really? by mlush · · Score: 4, Informative

    So they've built an EMP bomb which doesn't require setting off a nuclear bomb as well?

    Why don't we start worrying that the UK is ineffectively protected against ray-guns and lightsabers as well?

    Yes

  13. Re:EMP Bombs? Really? by azalin · · Score: 2

    So they've built an EMP bomb which doesn't require setting off a nuclear bomb as well?

    Why don't we start worrying that the UK is ineffectively protected against ray-guns and lightsabers as well?

    And plants! Do not underestimate the triffids or the Happening. Though plants could be our allies against the zombies and we should treat them politely.

  14. Re:Yay fearmongering by sourcerror · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Solar flares are very different from EMP, as the change in field is much slower, so it mostly effects transmission lines, not computers.

  15. Re:EMP Bombs? Really? by semi-extrinsic · · Score: 5, Informative
    Maybe you should read what you linked?

    The range of NNEMP weapons (non-nuclear electromagnetic pulse bombs) is severely limited compared to nuclear EMP. This is because nearly all NNEMP devices used as weapons require chemical explosives as their initial energy source, but nuclear explosives have an energy yield on the order of one million times that of a chemical explosive.

    In fact, weaponized NNEMPs are only possible for surgical strikes at strategic locations. These are typically hard to access; if terrorists can get to them, EMPs are the least of your worries.

    To paraphrase: if terrorists in a western country had 1000 kg of explosives sitting around, they wouldn't use it as an EMP.

    --
    for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
  16. Iraq was the aggressor by rossdee · · Score: 2

    It was the other way round, Iraq attacked first. The western countries suggested to Saddam that Iran would be weak after the revolution, with most of the top generals removed (since they were loyal to the Shah) and the army was in disarray . However the revolutionary guard fought the Iraqis to a standstill. Saddam (and the west) didn't count on the willingness to fight and die of Shia fanatics.