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BSA Claims Half of PC Users Are Pirates

judgecorp writes "Despite continued pressure on business users to buy legitimate software, the Business Software Alliance (BSA) reports that the campaign seems to be failing. Well over half (57%) of users surveyed in a global survey admit to using pirated software. That's a big increase from the same survey last year — when 43% admitted to using pirated software. The BSA surveyed 15,000 people in 33 countries."

52 of 585 comments (clear)

  1. Underestimation? by GloomE · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Only half?

    1. Re:Underestimation? by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 5, Funny

      Cmon, we can do better than 57%

    2. Re:Underestimation? by exomondo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well:
      Over half of PC users worldwide have admitted to using pirate software

    3. Re:Underestimation? by InspectorGadget1964 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sorry, but I believe the number should be going down. Soon enough, people will realize they don't need buggy siftware when they can get Linux and Open Source software that is better and mostly free

    4. Re:Underestimation? by wvmarle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      TFA is just a troll. Or flamebait. Or both. I don't know.

    5. Re:Underestimation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Considering the population of China, India, Africa, half is rather surprising. Looking at the study, in the top 20 the only places UNDER 50% are the US, Canada, Western Europe, Japan, S Korea and Australia. Interestingly they twist the logic around so the USA, with the lowest rate of piracy at 19% has the highest "value" of pirated software. Not really sure how we beat China at a 77% piracy rate, which seems both low as a rate and low as a $ value. Maybe the Chinese just pirate cheap software?

      The quick conclusion I draw after looking at the actual study is that people generally pay for software they can afford (affluent western countries) and people who can't afford it don't pay for it. Is this supposed to be surprising?

    6. Re:Underestimation? by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 3, Informative

      butbutbut, Canada's on the US Piracy List, how could we possible have a low piracy rate?!?

    7. Re:Underestimation? by exomondo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The blame lies 100% at the door of the greedy corporations who are gouging.

      Not really. If you believe they are gouging then don't use their products, use a free alternative, like GIMP instead. Now the reason I say that is because I believe piracy is not a way of protest, in fact it just makes it worse. Consider that - as many here will attest - piracy != lost sale so piracy isn't necessarily 'hurting' the company, what it does is cement the idea that the software in question is the best (or at least 'necessary'), superior to cheaper or free alternatives, thus making it the de-facto standard in the market and driving out cheaper or free competitors.

      The same thing happens with other software too, Windows for example. People claim to not like it and to pirate it to only use it out of necessity, but that just drives its use in the market leading to more people to use it out of necessity so to a degree piracy drives legitimate sales.
      Obviously if legitimate sales start to sag but usage continues to grow then the companies see piracy as a problem.

    8. Re:Underestimation? by exomondo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I should have put this in the above post but personally I think the 'Free for non-Commercial Use' model is a good method for most paid software companies. I see it as viable predominantly because it wouldn't be far from the system we have now (as in it would require minimal changes) except that these home users - that are probably just using the software for hobby or educational purposes and can't justify the cost nor the infringement penalties anyway - would not be painted as 'criminals' and those who derive income from the tools they use would be the ones who pay for the development of said tools.

      It's not a perfect solution and it's not the only solution, but it's more harmonious while being not too far removed from what we have now.

    9. Re:Underestimation? by Endo13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pretty much this. A program sells for $700 when a reasonable facsimile is available for free, legitimately. Same is true for almost every other piece of software that sells for hundreds of bucks. People realize the stuff really just isn't worth that much.

      It doesn't even matter if the alternative isn't identical or not as good. It's free. By normal human rationale, that means the other similar one can't possibly warrant a price that high. Sure, it may be a little better, but not $700 vs $0 better. And that's how I believe most people rationalize piracy.

      These companies would probably be ahead giving away the core software for free to home users and collecting some here and there on microtransactions.

      --
      There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
    10. Re:Underestimation? by advocate_one · · Score: 3, Insightful

      software piracy is software piracy... if it were a real problem for Microsoft and the other companies, then they'd implement proper locks on the software, but no, they like it because it means the competition isn't getting a look in... to Microsoft, a pirated windows install means someone isn't using Linux... a pirated Office install means someone isn't using Open Office...

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    11. Re:Underestimation? by bryan1945 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Do you have any idea how many people steal Linux? It is OFF THE CHARTS how many people don't pay for it! It's an epidemic, I tell you, horrifying!

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    12. Re:Underestimation? by IDOXLR8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I almost agree... I dual boot win7 and Ubuntu and there is still no comparison. I get more work done while in win7...as soon as (insert your fav brand of Linux) can properly install my video, network, sound drivers without a glitch... I'm all there... as for pirating... Give me what I want to watch...when I want to watch it, otherwise...your business model sucks...

      --
      Shutup and get them panties off!
    13. Re:Underestimation? by exomondo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Which is exactly why - if anything - software piracy is helping companies get market share and eliminate competition. Better to use an alternative than to pirate.

      In other markets this balances out because if a company's product is too expensive people turn to alternatives, when that company loses marketshare they either adapt - by lowering their price or adding more value - or they die, but in the case of software people can pirate and since in most cases a piracy != lost sale that won't kill the company but it will increase their marketshare. That can then get to the case in point where the market leader is perceived - by many - to be massively overpriced but since they are effectively the only game in town there are few - if any - viable alternatives.

    14. Re:Underestimation? by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 5, Funny

      Cmon, we can do better than 57%

      Now now, they surveyed 15,000 people and worked out that 170 million of them are using pirated software. So that's pretty typical anti-piracy maths.

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    15. Re:Underestimation? by davester666 · · Score: 3, Funny

      They only download it to try it out, then uninstall it and reinstall Windows...

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    16. Re:Underestimation? by JWSmythe · · Score: 5, Interesting

          Sadly, there are an abundance of reports stating exactly that. During BSA audits sysadmins can't produce paid licenses and receipts for every install of Linux and all the FOSS they have installed. That's reason #1 to refuse to cooperate in any sort of way with them until they produce a warrant. It'll cost you in legal expenses, but that's cheaper than their "fines" and licenses to come into compliance.

          I've known *many* business owners who have received their bulk mailed warnings of impending audits, and offered to let the install the BSA audit tool to bring themselves into compliance. {sigh}

          This topic has already been discussed ad nauseum on here over the years. I'm surprised they are still able to operate at all. Oh ya, they're sponsored by big corporations, they can do whatever they want.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    17. Re:Underestimation? by Microlith · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Note that the above is true only on ARM. They're making PCs a pain by mandating default Secure Boot to Windows and leaving it up in the air if it'll be possible to customize the bootloader keys, but not mandating lock down on them.

      They would if they could, yes, but their own legacy is too big for them to do so, let alone anti-competiton concerns.

    18. Re:Underestimation? by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No I'M sorry friend but people would rather pirate Windows than take Linux for free. After all if you pirate Windows you only have to install it once, most distros now will tell you in the forums the only way to upgrade without problems now is clean install which is bi-annually again for most. I have taken bog standard laptops and desktops and tried in place GUIs with every "consumer friendly" version of Linux and have yet to have one come through with 100% functional drivers, Wifi and that damned pulseaudio being the worst offenders. Finally with the vast majority of the software that people want its as simple as 'download and run" on Windows but most of the software people want simply doesn't exist on Linux or you get some ersatz that just isn't nearly as good, Gimp for Photoshop, Calc for Excel, Gnucash for Quickbooks, etc. They just aren't up to the level of the software they are emulating, sorry.

      But what both you and the BSA fail to take into consideration is many of these companies WANT PIRACY TO EXIST. Lets take Windows which by mentioning Linux you are obviously trying to make a comparison to. Well Vista was harder to pirate, even had a kill switch, what happened? IT BOMBED. It also didn't run on netbooks which if MSFT wouldn't have dusted off XP and practically gave it away then linux might have had that market instead of being wiped out in less than a year. So what did MSFT do when it came to Win 7? It made its "anti-piracy" so damned trivial that damned near every pirate site had it cracked before RTM and what's more they made it so that pirate versions get full updates! All the pirate has to do is block a single Windows Update (that Windows will then happily hide if you wish and never show again) and Win 7 will get full updates for the life of the OS!

      If MSFT wanted to wipe piracy completely off the map in the west they could do so tomorrow, all they have to do is offer Win 7 HP for $50 and Starter for $35. When they had that "Buy Win 7 HP for $50 or $100 for a triple pack" deal going on? I never saw a pirated version of Win 7, never. They were ALL Win 7 HP legits. MSFT killed that program and no every Craigslist is filled with $100 machines running Win 7 Ultimate.

      But MSFT knows if they lower the price permanently the stock price will tank because wall street wants iMoney, so instead they just do a "wink wink nudge nudge" and made Win 7 the easiest OS to pirate EVAR, hell you don't even need a fricking key! Of course the one this does hurt is Linux because if piracy was wiped out then some corp might decide it was worth spending the money fixing the problems in Linux so as to undercut MSFT and give them some competition. This of course would not be in MSFT's best interests and since they get the majority of their money from OEMs and not refurbers or DIYers they would rather allow piracy than cut the price. You see the same thing with programs like Photoshop where they could cut the price and eliminate piracy but instead they just let students pirate the thing and then sell it to their employers that hire the kids who learned how to shop on the pirated version.

      You mark my words, if the BSA managed to find some way to block piracy tomorrow it would be MSFT and Adobe along with several other corps that would be fighting it. They know that piracy is the market saying their price is too high and that those people would go somewhere else if they couldn't pirate so you have what you have now where piracy is allowed. I'm not sure if the MAFIAA cartel are likewise aware of this but they seem pretty damned worried about alternatives to their media channels and non MAFIAA content so I'm sure if they ever manage to wipe out piracy they too will find out the hard way that rather than pay their fees people will just go elsewhere.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    19. Re:Underestimation? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I run Mint as my work OS, Win7 as play. I need Win7 as dual boot so it gets unrestricted access to the excessive hardware I bought to play games. "Serious about running a Linux desktop" doesn't mean that I can't dual boot another OS. I use Linux for everything except playing games. It just so happens that I like PC gaming too, and the games I enjoy don't run (well) on Linux.

      "Horses for courses", mate.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    20. Re:Underestimation? by rohan972 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Can we drop this "automagically" word? It freaks me out...

      It's the correct word. The installation is done by invoking a daemon.

  2. Different Approach? by exomondo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Doesn't that indicate that perhaps a different approach is required? This sue-happy, mafia-style campaign isn't working so perhaps that's not the right way to go about it. I don't have the solution but clearly neither do they.

    1. Re:Different Approach? by Lord_of_the_nerf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

      When you have lawyers on staff, every problem looks like an ambulance.

    2. Re:Different Approach? by artor3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Quite the opposite. This is great news for the RIAA and the like. Now whenever they do their scattershot lawsuits, they have a rock solid legal argument. "No your honor, we don't have any evidence. But statistically speaking, the defendant is almost certainly guilty!"

    3. Re:Different Approach? by couchslug · · Score: 3, Funny

      They should continue it in order to make using their software suck even more.

      I suggest "anvil-sized, spiked, parallel port dongles painted with necrotizing fasciitis" be required for every closed-source program.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  3. The BSA should sue the BSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Boy Scouts of America have been using that TLA for a lot longer than the Business Software Alliance has existed. The former should sue the latter for damaging the reputation of their acronym.

    1. Re:The BSA should sue the BSA by pecosdave · · Score: 4, Funny

      So in other words we should have the Boy Scouts go all WWF on the BSA?

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    2. Re:The BSA should sue the BSA by pecosdave · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
  4. And 43% of those surveyed... by multiben · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... are liars.

    1. Re:And 43% of those surveyed... by Technician · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not all of the 43%. Some of us have learned from the Ernie Ball story and moved off closed source entirely.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    2. Re:And 43% of those surveyed... by Fluffeh · · Score: 4, Informative

      In case anyone is wondering, here is a nice interview that covers the story pretty much start to finish.

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
  5. Their lips are moving... you know what that means. by Jerry · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Obviously...

    --

    Running with Linux for over 20 years!

  6. You To Can Report Software Piracy by thestudio_bob · · Score: 3, Funny

    Do you know a company using illegal software? Report it now and you could be rewarded with cash!

    "Hi, I reported that my company was using pirated software by clicking the link below. It was easy and I received a cash reward for squealing. Now, I'm recommending it to my friends and family. They too can make easy money by turning in their boss and/or employer."

    What are you waiting for, click on the link below, now!!!

    --
    The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains /.
    1. Re:You To Can Report Software Piracy by rrohbeck · · Score: 5, Funny

      OK I clicked on the link below (it said "Reply to This".)
      Now what? Where is my cash reward?

  7. Phrasing by cranky_chemist · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Do you know what the article doesn't tell you?

    How the question was phrased, which makes a helluva lot of difference in the results of any poll.

    "Tell me, sir, do you still pirate software?"

    "Well... uh... no."

    "So you admit that you USED to pirate software?"

    "Well... no."

    "So you admit you pirate software now, but didn't used to?"

    "Well... uh..."

    "So how often do you beat your wife?"

    1. Re:Phrasing by pjtp · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, this reminds me of an episode on Yes Prime Minister where Sir Humphrey Appleby discusses this very thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA

  8. Crackpipe statistics by hangar47 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "UK is firmly below the global average, with just 27 percent of computer users admitting they have acquired software illegally last year. This translates into an approximate £1.2 billion loss by the software industry." - "People who use software without paying for it" != "People who would pay for it if they couldn't get it for free". Only a group like the BSA (and it can't be coincidental that their acronym so nicely fits with BullShitArtists) would use stats like that.

  9. Sounds like Cop Statistics to me. by rueger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You can bet that BSA surveys are rigged to generate the highest numbers possible. After all, if "piracy" was declining they couldn't really insists that all of the draconian laws and penalties were needed.

    Cops figured this out decades ago - no matter that crime stats have been falling for ten years, somehow the police always need more people, more equipment, and tougher laws.

    Any survey by the BSA - or any group with a vested interest - is automatically suspect.

  10. If *most* of the population are criminals... by gman003 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    is it really a crime?

    This country is, at least in theory, a democracy. If more people break that law than voted for the current president, doesn't that indicate that the majority of people don't believe that piracy is "bad"?

    I feel like there should be some eloquent Latin quote for this... Ubi omnes sontes, nemo sontes? Did I get that right?

    1. Re:If *most* of the population are criminals... by gman003 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I would, in fact, argue that the current traffic laws *are* broken as currently used.

      Speed limits are rigged to bring in ticket money. There's a section of highway I drive daily that's marked as 45MPH (with an advisory limit of 35)... that is completely safe at 65MPH+, and regularly driven at 70. I was once passed by a Mustang I swear was doing at least 120. There are no pedestrians (it's an overpass, no foot traffic), no sharp turns, no visibility problems, no oncoming traffic, nothing that makes such a low limit (for a highway) logical. And since it merges into 65MPH traffic after just a mile, I would argue that 35MPH is in fact completely *unsafe*.

      It's also been demonstrated that traffic lights with red-light cameras are almost always set to LESS safe timings to boost revenue. As for "rolling stops", yeah, those shouldn't always be illegal as well. Go on and tell me that it's unsafe to slow down to a crawl long enough to see that there's NO ONE else on the road, then continue on. Blowing through a stop sign's obviously a Bad Thing, but I see no reason to come to a complete stop when I'm the only one on the road.

      So if the laws that are being broken are primarily being broken in ways that harm no one, they are obviously in need of at least revision. Should we completely throw them out? Of course not. But should we improve them? Yes.

      Your point about South Africa does have merit - obviously something as harmful as rape shouldn't be legalized (although I'll not that "33% of men" is only 16% of the population, so while your general idea has significant merit, your particular was perhaps poorly-chosen). I suppose one could argue that no man-made law can violate natural law, and thus you cannot legislate away the "right not to be raped" or other such natural rights. However, as copyright is clearly an artificial legal construct, I don't think natural law is particularly relevant.

  11. who pirates software any more? by Surt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I haven't needed to pirate anything in years, everything has a free and good-enough equivalent now. What does anyone pirate today?

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  12. misleading statistics by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As usual when someone with an agenda throws statistics at you, you can rest assured that they've manipulated them in such a way to achieve their own goals. In this case, it's rather easy to see what they are doing. Worldwide? When I was in Africa 2 years ago, the hotel I stayed in had a computer in the community room. Windows Genuine Advantage warnings kept popping up. I fixed that for them... much to the bemusement of the Microsoft employee that was staying their with us. After traveling to several other locations we found that, at least to our limited exposure, ALL the software on EVERY computer was pirated. The Microsoft guy was appalled. I asked him where he expected these people to buy his software? Shipping to that part of africa was somewhere in the neighborhood of $500... There were no walmarts, or any sort of software vendors. The fastest data connection I came across was at a coffee shop at it was 56k. So you can be fairly certain that the entire continent of Africa's piracy rate is well above 99% Take the population of Africa... oh and China... and India... are you starting to get the picture? Did their poll ask people if it were possible for them to buy the software they needed in the first place? I doubt it.

  13. Re:WHAT'S STOPPING US? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    C'mon! Let's get to 100% PEOPLE!

    That'll be just for the attitude of those bastards. ;-)

    Actually BSA thinks that all the PC users are pirates - but they are scared that if they tell the truth as it is, they'll look like loons

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  14. Lies, damn lies and... Trialware? by beaverdownunder · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Of course, there are lies, damn lies and statistics like these. But there is some truth to this figure -- especially in terms of expensive applications such as Photoshop. People who wouldn't pirate _anything_ else _will_ pirate Photoshop or Microsoft Office because they can't justify the expense until they establish the demand.

    Of course, once they establish the demand, since they already have the software, it's 'easy' for them to 'forget' to buy a paid copy.

    Happily, Adobe has seen the light and offers trialware versions of its stuff -- if more companies did the same, had reduced prices for trialware users, and so-forth, that 50-odd percent figure would likely drop dramatically.

  15. Re:WHAT'S STOPPING US? by Jessified · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Isn't that right. If the majority of the population breaks the law, there is a problem with the law.

  16. Re:WHAT'S STOPPING US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not fully. I fully respect that companies need a way to make profit.

    This is not a problem with the law, its often a problem with the companies. Asking way too much for certain products or having a horrible distribution scheme. Say about bittorrent what you wish, but if I actually look for some software, I find it, usually having to only look for 1 site. And it doesn't annoy the fuck out of me during installation.

  17. Re:Most mac software by exomondo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because Apple are usually smart enough to realise that serial numbers and drm schemes only cause inconvenience to paying customers...

    So how does that explain the DRM in Final Cut Pro X which uses the iTunes receipt in the app folder to validate the install? The definitely have DRM in there.

  18. Re:WHAT'S STOPPING US? by master_p · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Once upon a time, the majority of the population believed the Earth was flat.

    What the majority believes may be wrong some times.

  19. Re:WHAT'S STOPPING US? by progician · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But this is not a belief it is a factual thing. What people believe is one thing, but what they do en masse that's the real deal. Now in this case, if more than 50 percent of the people do something and what they do is harmless (there's no such thing as right to profit making from old and bad business practices - though recently it seems that the banks and the publisher companies are entitled to it). The law must recognize the reality: if it fails to do that, it will be by and large ignored. You see, there were not so long ago (or perhaps there still are) laws against oral and gay sex in some states. Such a backward an irrelevant laws must be overturned. A lobby group should not get bigger powers than the majority of the involved population.

  20. Re:WHAT'S STOPPING US? by tirnacopu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What the majority believes may be wrong some times.

    This is a well-known let's say 'urban legend', refuted several times throughout history but which keeps coming back as a way to stress just how dark the Dark Ages were or to make a Mayan discovery look more spectacular. Educated people over the millenia have always known that Earth is round, and belief otherwise is just that - a dogma imposed by some religions, methinks as a simple yet powerful way to describe how precious and rare life as we know is. See the "Myth of a flat Earth" page references for some amusement.
      There will also always be nutcases that deny common sense and science, some of them might even go as far as to negate Darwinism in American schools, but I do hold hope that humanity can work around those.

  21. Piracy = supporting the biggest market player by coder111 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You described a case when free software competes with commercial software. But imagine following scenario:

    * There is an entrenched piece of software by company A used by most people that costs 700$.
    * There is a startup company B producing similar thing that costs 50$.

    Now in case you pirate the software produced by company A, that's not a lost sale for company A. That's more a lost sale for company B.This kind of behaviour will lead to demise of company B and company A will become a monopoly. Add to this network effects and zero distribution costs and file format lock-in etc- they will only speed things up.

    What I want to say is that software market in general is easily dominated by big established companies. It's almost impossible to compete with established players, even if you sell a similar/better product for less. And piracy is one of the things responsible for that.

    Now markets where you need to offer support or adaptation/localization of software (enterprise markets) are somewhat different. And that's where Linux shines.

    --Coder

  22. Re:Today is different by realityimpaired · · Score: 3, Informative

    Global warming *is* happening. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_temperature_record

    We've been measuring the global average temperature for 150 years, and the graph in the top right tells the story of what's been happening to global averages. Only an idiot looks at that graph and says that the temperature is actually going down.

    What may or may not be in question is how much of an impact we're actually having on it, and how much of it is a natural trend. They argue that there was actually a mini ice age in the middle ages, and that this is a natural warming of the world as a result of coming out of it. They point to what the Vikings called Vineland, and remind us that they used to grow grapes for wine in Greenland. What they forget is that this mini ice age was caused by the Romans deforesting Europe, and that most of those trees have not grown back... there has to be another reason that the global cooling they caused has been reversing itself.

    Beyond that, the thing that's particularly annoying about climate change deniers is that we know that these hydrocarbons (which most climate change scientists are saying is the root cause) are not good for human health. They have been linked to several types of cancers, and are a contributing factor to other quality-of-life diseases like asthma. We also know that exposure to smog has detrimental effects on the local flora and fauna. (well, some plants it's like super fertilizer, but it kills others). Knowing these detrimental effects exist, what surprises me is that some climate change deniers are actively campaigning against change, because they believe global warming to be a myth. Even if we can't agree whether humankind is responsible for the climate change, can we at least agree that reducing hydrocarbon emissions is a good thing to be trying to do regardless on its impact on the global average temperature?