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Ask Slashdot: Equipping a Company With Secure Android Phones?

An anonymous reader writes "I'm in charge of getting some phones for my company to give to our mobile reps. Security is a major consideration for us, so I'm looking for the most secure off-the-shelf solution for this. I'd like to encrypt all data on the phone and use encryption for texting and phone calls. There are a number of apps in the android market that claim to do this, but how can I trust them? For example, I tested one, but it requires a lot of permissions such as internet access; how do I know it is not actually some kind of backdoor? I know that Boeing is producing a secure phone, which is no doubt good — but probably too expensive for us. I was thinking of maybe installing Cyanogenmod onto something, using a permissions management app to try and lock down some backdoors and searching out a trustworthy text and phone encryption app. Any good ideas out there?"

229 comments

  1. Droid Pro Can by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a crappy phone for the most part, but the motorola droid pro encrypts both internal storage and the SD card if you choose to. You need support built into the phone for whole disk encryption. Apps can't do that. Making transported data encrypted is a separate thing though.

    1. Re:Droid Pro Can by dolmen.fr · · Score: 1

      Android 4 (for example on Galaxy Nexus) has encryption built-in.
      http://support.google.com/ics/nexus/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=1663755

  2. Cell phone calls are already encrypted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And blackberry messenger is too.

    1. Re:Cell phone calls are already encrypted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      And blackberry messenger is too.

      To clarify on the blackberry messenger encryption: It's encrypted by default with a global key (hardly useful) but pin to pin communications can be encrypted using an organizational key, if you subscribe to a S/MIME package.

    2. Re:Cell phone calls are already encrypted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      To clarify on the blackberry messenger encryption: It's encrypted by default with a global key (hardly useful) but pin to pin communications can be encrypted using an organizational key, if you subscribe to a S/MIME package.

      Not quite. Blackberry messenger by default does use a global key (and the key is known by many in the security community), but blackberry messenger is also encrypted with 3DES, which is a bit weak. With a million dollars of computers, 3DES can be brute-forced reasonably quickly.

      By comparison, blackberry email is encrypted with AES.

      If your company has a blackberry enterprise server, you can set your own key for blackberry messenger, you don't need the S/MIME package (fyi, S/MIME is free).

      You are correct that pin to pin communications can be encrypted using S/MIME.

      You can also get a PGP module for blackberry, but you have to pay for that.

    3. Re:Cell phone calls are already encrypted by DJRumpy · · Score: 2

      You should check out GOOD for mobile devices. It will create an encrypted sandbox for any corporate data/applications and works on a variety of phones. It also comes with some decent enterprise tools. The drawback is it requires changes to some 'user' plans and that creates headaches if you allow personal devices on corporate networks.

    4. Re:Cell phone calls are already encrypted by blake1 · · Score: 1

      Another drawback is the quality of the product. To put it politely, it is less-than-Good.

  3. hire a android Dev.... by who_stole_my_kidneys · · Score: 0

    its the only way you can get some one you "trust", if the price is too high, then your security is degraded.

    1. Re:hire a android Dev.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would explain why he can't locate who took his kidneys.

    2. Re:hire a android Dev.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indian's aren't allowed off the reservations... He can't be a Indian.

      oh wait you mean the other ones...

  4. Dear slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd like to know how to configure a kludge of shit (using all FOSS, of course) for my enterprise environment. I want everything under the sun plus the kitchen sink.

    Also, I'm going to be paranoid and reject anything you propose. After all, I can't be sure that anything I buy doesn't have a backdoor that the government or extra terrestrials could use to snoop on the uber secrets at my company.

    1. Re:Dear slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can help you get everything you need, just put this little piece of paper under your tongue for a few minutes.

  5. we have one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    We have one in works. Email to me df.inbox at gmail.com for details.

    1. Re:we have one by X0563511 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seems legit.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    2. Re:we have one by CuriousGeorge113 · · Score: 2

      I'm sure it's legit. And secure. Legitimately & securely transmits your info to China....

      --
      No man is an island, But if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie them together, they make a pretty good raft.
  6. Make it yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I would recommend developing your own system. If you are dealing with highly sensitive information, you want to make sure that it is fully secure. There are plenty of independent security contractors out there to develop something for you if you do not have the skill set to make it yourself within your company. Custom ROM, kernel, and various modifications to it should do it for you.

  7. Apple by wood_dude · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, use an iPhone ! Let the flames begin...

    1. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      As much as I absolutely HATE to say this, you're absolutely right.

      Blackberries suck, Android's security is left to the manufacturer (so it usually doesn't get done right), Windows Phone 7(.5) is still not ready for the Enterprise, Symbian is dead, so are Meego and Maemo...

      iPhones are locked down, have enterprise support tools, come encrypted by default. Unless you're willing to inflict Blackberries on your users, AND pay for the BES, AND pay the per-handset CAL, iPhones are your best bet.

    2. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      iOS with a complex password works well for most needs. They still don't have a great way to support a "VPN-or-GTFO" always on secure tunnel for everything though.

    3. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I absolutely HATE to say this, you're absolutely wrong. iOS is no more secure than Android. The only iOS "advantage" is the controlled app store.

      And the default whole-disk-encryption on all iPhones since the 3gs. Oh, and the inability to install untrusted programs with a checkbox. Oh, and the enterprise support tools which are far better for iPhones than Android...

    4. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The cluelessness of your post is why I'm hoping you're not in a position to set hardware standards in the enterprise.

      I'll take the curated iOS "controlled" app store over the wild-west install-from-anywhere wild-west Android alternative any day.

      The reason(s) that the enterprise prefers iOS (or *gasp* RIM) over Android is precisely the reason the tech-saavy iHaters lambast them for.

      Until Android is able to completely lock down a phone and give the administrators full rights to manage what gets put on it, Android will always be the LAST choice - if any choice.

    5. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What???
      Encryption on Android exists since Honeycomb, at least a year before iPhones...
      Inability to install untrusted programs? WTF? What is a "trusted" program? The one looked at by people at the Apple store?
      Really?
      Enterprise support tools? What tools? Integration with Microsoft Exchange? How it has anything to do with the operating system? VPN? IMAP?
      Do you rally have any idea what you're talking about?

    6. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The cluelessness of your post is why I'm hoping you're not in a position to set hardware standards in the enterprise.
      You really don't know Android if you making these statements.

    7. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, I do.

      Do you have any clue about what I'm talking about? Apparently not.

      And yes, Encryption EXISTS, and is SUPPORTED, but is not always actually on. For that, it requires manufacturer support (I think this may have changed in ICS). And, a lot of phones you can buy right now come with... GINGERBREAD! Which can be encrypted, but it's solely left to the manufacturer.

    8. Re:Apple by HideyoshiJP · · Score: 1

      Regardless of preference, I've found that the framework Apple has lain for MDM is miles ahead of anything Android related. Right now, OEMs are trying to fill the niche Google should be addressing by providing proprietary MDM frameworks. The one huge gripe I have with Apple from a management/deployment point of view is their stance on things like business iTunes accounts, purchasing, etc. I'm sorry, but VPP is not an answer. When employees leave, the company doesn't get those licenses back. It's just a glorified gift card. There's also that whole issue with their terms of service for an Apple account stating that it must be for personal use only, yet they require an Apple ID for MDM certs.

    9. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iPhones are locked down, have enterprise support tools,

      Have you seen the costs of iphone "enterprise" tools? Apple doesn't make any. Not cheap from third-parties, and no real oversight or auditing.

      come encrypted by default.

      Iphones are NOT encrypted by default. And no one has audited the encryption implementation. How many Apple backdoors? How many flaws for easy jailbreaking?

      Unless you're willing to inflict Blackberries on your users, AND pay for the BES, AND pay the per-handset CAL,

      A number of years ago RIM came out with Blackberry Enterprise Server Express, which is absolutely free. It has most of the features of the regular Blackberry Enterprise Server. Strong AES encryption, remote wipe, remote lock, etc.

      It doesn't have some of the logging functions - for example, you can't log BBM with Blackberry Enterprise Server Express.

    10. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me guess, you fall into the RMS category of believing "everyone who can log in to a system should have root privileges!". Locking down apps (desktop and mobile) is important in the enterprise world.

    11. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's just bonch posting as AC again.

      You can tell by the stock phrase he uses in his posts, as well as his conviction that people without iDevices are just 'haters'.

    12. Re:Apple by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · · Score: 0

      Yes, use an iPhone ! Let the flames begin...

      Because you'll never ever hear of any IPhone security issues...as long as you live under a rock.

    13. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Show me a single piece of malware that has ever appear on a non-jailbroken iOS device.

      There are none. Yes, there is the ability to ssh into a JB device with the default root PW, but that is a different story altogether.

      Wake me up when there is a real threat on a non-jailbroken iOS device that can attack people in the wild.

    14. Re:Apple by reversible+physicist · · Score: 1

      iPhone is the overwhelmingly common device in enterprise right now, largely because of BYOD. Ironically, some claim that Blackberry is slightly more secure than iOS because it is more obscure (less popular)! It is pretty universally acknowledged that Android currently comes in last when it comes to enterprise security.

    15. Re:Apple by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      iOS's security is also left to the manufacturer. It's just that the manufacturer is the same company which also provides iOS.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    16. Re:Apple by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      And ... if this is an important feature to your organization, your organization will buy Android phones that enable full-disc encryption! It's not that difficult, seriously. You (and other Apple zealots) make it sound like Googling a few basic details about the features you want in a phone is a nigh impossible task for anyone short of a PhD in one of the hard sciences; Googling the same basic details and finding that some subset of them is available in iOS though, well that's a piece of cake.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    17. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iPhones are locked down, have enterprise support tools, come encrypted by default. Unless you're willing to inflict Blackberries on your users, AND pay for the BES, AND pay the per-handset CAL, iPhones are your best bet.

      iPhones are not locked down to the extent that a Blackberry can:

      http://thenextweb.com/us/2011/04/20/us-police-can-copy-your-iphones-contents-in-under-two-minutes/

      I like a lot of Apple products, but personally I'm under no illusion as to which of the two devices can handle sensitive data better:

      http://us.blackberry.com/business/topics/security/certifications.jsp

      So how sensitive is the data, and what happens to your job if you vouch that it's secure and it turns out not to be?

    18. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    19. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So anyone who recommends Apple is a fanboy? You'd better look in the mirror.

    20. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a company told me I had to use an android phone, I'd be tempted to find a new job.

    21. Re:Apple by kwark · · Score: 1

      Define malware.

      From an Apple point of view apps with hidden features are malware, esp. if those features are locked down in iOS on telco request:
      http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/07/apple-approves-pulls-flashlight-app-with-hidden-tethering-mode/

      So here you have a piece of software posing as A but having hidden feature B. Somehow the reviewer missed a flashlight app creating a server socket to receive connections, something a piece of malware might do (though opening a connection to a botnet is easier and less conspicuous) and a flashlight app has no purpose for. That really makes me doubt how Apple certifies apps, surely they can get an overview of all API calls of an application!

      But since this app was not really evil and was removed after the real purpose got known I guess you will just ignore this example (and it happened so long ago ofcourse, this problem has been fixed by Apple for sure).

    22. Re:Apple by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Not true. The APNS push certificate, while solid from a chain of authorities perspective, has as a competitor, ActiveSync API (yes, you can get it for Android) that is also the crux of control for Windows Mobile 7/7.5 phones.

      The APNS MDM certs are good yet Apple also now supports ActiveSync. It's up to MDM software, yours, cloud, or carrier-based, to do the job.

      If you need to limit user download access, do it. Be brave. But eventually, you'll need to clamp down more tightly than users like. If you supply the phone, you're likely in the US to have the authority to dictate the rules. If not, then user and organizational data is in jeopardy unless common ground can be found.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    23. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And ... if this is an important feature to your organization, your organization will buy Android phones that enable full-disc encryption! It's not that difficult, seriously. You (and other Apple zealots) make it sound like Googling a few basic details about the features you want in a phone is a nigh impossible task for anyone short of a PhD in one of the hard sciences; Googling the same basic details and finding that some subset of them is available in iOS though, well that's a piece of cake.

      --Jeremy

      I'm an Apple Zealot? HA! I hate the iPhone! That's why I said I hated to admit it. My personal phone is an Android, 4g, nice big AMOLED screen, and I'd hate to be restricted with me personal device like the iPhone is... but for a corporate environment, it's just not there for Android yet. It might be in the future, but right now, it isn't...

    24. Re:Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I got my Galaxy Nexus I chose to encrypt it, which I understand as a built in function to ICS (Ice Cream Sandwich).

    25. Re:Apple by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · · Score: 1

      I didn't recommend anything, Anonymous Andy

  8. Blackberry? by twnth · · Score: 5, Informative

    Why android? is there an app you need or something? or is it a latest bling thing?

    Because Blackberry does the encrypted thing, and if you buy BES you can also set device policies and centrally administer the devices (remote wipe for example).

    1. Re:Blackberry? by BagOBones · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because starting from scratch on RIMs BB right now could be suicide...

      - New OS devices coming in the fall with a new untested management platform
      - Over stock of current gen devices they can't sell ( way under powered compared to WP, Android, iOS)
      - Bleeding management
      - Laying off huge amounts of staff.

      --
      EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
    2. Re:Blackberry? by jeffmeden · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As can Exchange through Active Sync (on Android or iOS). Don't invest in a company that is posting a billion in hardware losses this year.

      A billion in hardware losses for them is a billion in hardware GAINS for the consumer! Besides, you totally missed the point. With the BB platform, you can both encrypt all communication (instant messaging and email) as well as lock out any unencrypted communication (SMS and third party email) so your phones are as secure as anything else in your enterprise (as long as the users keep their passwords safe).

    3. Re:Blackberry? by eimsand · · Score: 1

      I don't think there's any doubt about the security of blackberry handsets. I'm far more concerned about the security of blackberry's intermediary network that all e-mail traffic flows through.

    4. Re:Blackberry? by b0bby · · Score: 4, Informative

      But if you're running BES (or the free Professional if you're small), everything is encrypted end to end with your own key. That's why they are so secure; 3rd parties don't have access to your data. In India & Saudi Arabia the government has put taps on the telco provided BES, but they still can't tap your private BES communications if your server is outside.

    5. Re:Blackberry? by hawkbat05 · · Score: 0

      The management platform isn't really untested, it will be the same one used to manage PlayBooks now http://blogs.blackberry.com/2012/03/introducing-blackberry-device-service-for-blackberry-mobile-fusion/ . I'm also going to argue with your "under powered" claim. The specs may be lower but I have a BB 9900, a SE Xperia and a Galaxy S2, the 9900 runs just as smoothly and feels less fragmented when performing a task. Raw hardware specs are not always the same as user experience.

      Unfortunately no one has stepped up to the plate to match the built in security and manageability of RIM's platforms. Leaving such features up to third party solutions/vendors leaves businesses in the same position as Timothy, wondering if they can trust them or not. If RIM falls there will be a void no other vendor is prepared to fill.

    6. Re:Blackberry? by StrifeJester · · Score: 1

      BES has an express version as well that is free.

    7. Re:Blackberry? by twnth · · Score: 1, Insightful

      As can Exchange through Active Sync (on Android or iOS). Don't invest in a company that is posting a billion in hardware losses this year.

      Actually, its shy of a half billion Press Release PDF

      They still shipped 14 million units in Q3, still revenue positive, still have 75 million subscribers. Is this up to iphad numbers? No. But they're still profitable and I think they'll be around for quite a while yet.

    8. Re:Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      untested management platform, no sorry bes has been around for almost a decade now and its proven.

    9. Re:Blackberry? by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      A billion in hardware losses for them is a billion in hardware GAINS for the consumer!

      What are you talking about?

      That billion dollars is in unsold hardware. Nobody wants. Nobody is buying it. It is sitting around gathering dust and occupying space.

      There were no 'gains' for the consumer. There's just boxes and boxes of phones nobody purchased.

      Besides, you totally missed the point. With the BB platform, you can both encrypt all communication

      I think the point you're missing is that if everybody is looking at RIM like it is about to tank or get sold, nobody wants to be the guy in the meeting saying "Hey, we should go with Blackberry".

      You describe the historical reasons why people went with Blackberry/BES solutions. But in the current context, people don't necessarily believe they are a long-term viable option.

      When you're hiring investment bankers to help you figure out how to split, sell, fold, spindle, or mutilate it tends to undermine customer confidence. I'm betting a lot of organizations wouldn't look at setting up a new BES right now.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    10. Re:Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because starting from scratch on RIMs BB right now could be suicide...

      - New OS devices coming in the fall with a new untested management platform - Over stock of current gen devices they can't sell ( way under powered compared to WP, Android, iOS) - Bleeding management - Laying off huge amounts of staff.

      They may be going through some significant pains, but when people ask about tried and tested platforms providing end-to-end encryption and the response is either BB or (crickets), they're likely not going anywhere, especially with Government use. Demand certainly seems intact.

    11. Re:Blackberry? by narcc · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even cooler, with BlackBerry Balance, you can seamlessly separate work and personal use on the device. No worries about copying corporate data to personal accounts.

      Add to that the above-par remote management features and it's not even a choice -- there is only one enterprise-ready mobile platform.

    12. Re:Blackberry? by Deadguy2322 · · Score: 0

      But if you're running BES (or the free Professional if you're small), everything is encrypted end to end with your own key. That's why they are so secure; 3rd parties don't have access to your data. In India & Saudi Arabia the government has put taps on the telco provided BES, but they still can't tap your private BES communications if your server is outside.

      And it all passes through the single point of failure that is RIM's server farm before reaching the client, and what could be more secure than an email that is never delivered, right?

      --
      Check out my foes list to see who is so retarded that they can't use the signature line!!!
    13. Re:Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would stay away from Blackberry..the company is tanking

    14. Re:Blackberry? by Minion+of+Eris · · Score: 1

      Or BES Express - less IT Policies, but it is FREE!

      --
      Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say.
    15. Re:Blackberry? by Altus · · Score: 1

      I would be more concerned about having to replace the entire setup if RIM goes under. BB doesn't seem like the platform to build your business on right now.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    16. Re:Blackberry? by NemosomeN · · Score: 2

      A billion dollar write down means BB anticipates selling the devices for a billion dollars less. This is where future consumers gain. (unless the billion represents devices that will be discarded)

      --
      I hate grammar Nazi's.
    17. Re:Blackberry? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      I think the point the earlier poster was trying to make is, do you want to invest in buying BES and a bunch of Blackberries given that RIM seems to be going down the tubes?

      If RIM continues to do as poorly as it has been doing, then I wouldn't expect to see worthwhile ongoing support for Blackberries or meaningful upgrades from RIM. Even if we were to stipulate that Blackberry is the best choice for a solution today, professional IT people also have to look at what kind of support and upgrade paths will be available over the next 5 years or more.

    18. Re:Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...aaaand if you support BB over BES then you know what a pain it all is. Or if you have had to deal with the, "Why is my BB so freaking slow?", questions after you encrypt the the device you will know why to stay away. Or the battery issues, or RIM's random outages, or, or, or. iPhone is just as easy to administer using Zenprise, Mobileiron, or even EAS. Android, the same. WindowPhone8 introduces native encryption (or is supposed to). RIM is over. They may hang around for a while but they sat on their haunches for too long and now are getting shiz pushed in by companies that are making devices that are easier to use and more functional.

    19. Re:Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know on samsungs you can encrypt the file system (at least I know you can with CyanogenMod, but IIRC the stock firmware allowed you as well on the Galaxy S's).

      Also, use something like Zimbra which is a nice collaboration tool that supports ActiveSync (email, calendars, etc) and allows the ability to do remote wipes of androids if the lock screen access is failed too many times in a certain period of time.

      Also, I recall reading about Samsung and.. was it LG?.. HTC? one of thsoe two working on a more "secure" version of android for just what you are talking about. I don't know how far samsung has got on it, but it may be worth some searching online to see what's been done.

    20. Re:Blackberry? by ebuck · · Score: 1

      The market is not a zero sum game. A billion in losses is not a billion in someone else's gains. If it were so, who gains the value of something depreciating?

    21. Re:Blackberry? by hawkbat05 · · Score: 1

      I've got Karma to spare so I'll take the bait. I've been using both Android and BB for several years, side by side (yes, I carry two phones 24/7). The BB feels much smoother moving between tasks than the Android does. I can do and see more in a single view with the BB than I can with Android. I can write an email, SMS, BBM, Facebook post or Twitter update all from one screen, I can also view all of those in one view if I choose to. On Android, sure there are apps where I can do each of those but I have to open each app to do it. And yes some manufacturers have timeline apps to view all that together and I've used a couple, they suck, they poll for data separately from the official Facebook and Twitter apps, just what I want, to download the same data twice! I have my Gmail, Facebook and Twitter accounts going to both of my phones. I reach for the BB first when I want to use any of those because of the better UE I get from the BB. Maybe my problem is I'm not concerned enough about having the latest Angry Birds version.

      If you're going to troll behind an anonymous handle at least have the decency to support your view with an explanation.

    22. Re:Blackberry? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      A billion dollar write down means BB anticipates selling the devices for a billion dollars less

      I read that as "hopes". There's nothing to guarantee people will actually buy them.

      At which point, they may well get stuck with these phones.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    23. Re:Blackberry? by acoustix · · Score: 2

      And it all passes through the single point of failure that is RIM's server farm before reaching the client, and what could be more secure than an email that is never delivered, right?

      The BES "single point of failure" is often over hyped. Most people that I personally know that complain about this single point of failure are also running a single mail server, single core switch, single Internet router, single ISP, etc. There are many single points of failure.

      Don't get me wrong, you should always try to limit the number of single points of failure.

      And to point out RIM's excellent uptime I will point out that RIM has had fewer hours of downtime in the last 10 years than Apple's iCloud service in the last 18 months.

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    24. Re:Blackberry? by hawkbat05 · · Score: 1

      I do support BB's on BES and it's not nearly as difficult as you make it out to be and really if good security was easy, everyone would do it. Security and usability require striking a balance, which I believe RIM has done a reasonable job with.

    25. Re:Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're going to troll behind an anonymous handle at least have the decency to support your view with an explanation.

      Okay, I'll take your bait. I'm at work and can't log in.

      As far as whatever shitty Android phone you got, I'm sorry that your experience hasn't been great. I have a Nexus S and a Galaxy Nexus and both stomp mudholes in any Blackberry I've ever owned or seen in smoothness, intuitiveness, app switching, ecosystem, and whatever else you can think of.

    26. Re:Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're underpowered for toys. They're perfectly adequate for an adequately secure enterprise communications tool. BB is the only reasonable answer if you have a threat targetted at you. If you're a company that doesn't have any Chinese competition, go for an apple (If you're willing to accept VPP). Otherwise, BB is the only reasonable answer.

    27. Re:Blackberry? by mlts · · Score: 1

      Once Microsoft gets its Windows CE successor through a few iterations, BB is doomed. In fact, Microsoft has a trump card which few people realize: They control the horizontal and vertical when it comes to the Exchange/Activesync universe. Even Apple knows this because they licensed it from MS.

      First will come the Windows phone that has full Office support for viewing and editing files. Both iOS and Android have gone through a lot of versions, but MS is catching up.

      The next shoe that will drop is Microsoft coming with a new ActiveSync protocol that only supports their devices and possibly iOS. It would be touted as a "secure" protocol with some additional features such as NAC, ability to demand more on a device than current Exchange policies. Of course, this becomes standard, and the old AS protocols get dropped.

      Result: The only thing that can connect to Exchange would be iOS and Windows based devices. With Microsoft's stranglehold on the enterprise when it comes to messaging, this would ensure them a permanent spot for their devices, and pushing RIM completely out of a market that is their last gasp.

    28. Re:Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Going down the tubes ?
      You must be getting your fill of the spoon feed propaganda from the media.

    29. Re:Blackberry? by taylortbb · · Score: 1

      in any Blackberry I've ever owned or seen in smoothness, intuitiveness, app switching, ecosystem, and whatever else you can think of.

      There is a key qualified there, that you've "owned or seen". The new BB7 devices really don't get the credit they should have and very few people know them. Everyone seems to have missed that RIM changed their UI over to 60fps hardware accelerated rendering. The result is an experience far smoother than the vast majority of Android devices. Things like pinch zoom in the browser are as smooth as iOS.

      I'm not going to tell you that BlackBerry has a ton of apps, I'd be deluding myself. But the IM, email and social networking experience the GP was referring to is really unmatched by other platforms.

    30. Re:Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "- New OS devices coming in the fall with a new untested management platform"
            ---- That's why they recently released an updated version of BES called "Blackberry Mobile Fusion" that is future proof for all BB10 devices to be released later this year, as well as backwards compatible with current BB7 devices.

      "- Over stock of current gen devices they can't sell ( way under powered compared to WP, Android, iOS)"
            ---- Can you please further expand on the term "under powered"? Is there a particular area of the hardware or software you are referring to? Otherwise, you're making a very broad, and quite frankly fallacious, generalization. Granted, Blackberrys might not have the most up to date specs or the most flashy UI, but they definitely help you get !@#$ done, and do so very efficiently.

      "- Bleeding management"
              -----I'm sorry, "bleeding?". What does that have anything to do with their current set of products? People don't no longer commit to working for an employer for their whole life like they di3 50 years ago. People move on to other things. Those that are shown the door probably deserved it, and any company would be smart to get rid of leechers that don't produce.

      "- Laying off huge amounts of staff."
                ----- Again, please further define what you mean by "huge". Do you mean a couple hundred or few thousand? If it's the former, why would you be surprised especially given today's economic situation. If it's the latter, please provide a genuine source of this information that is 100% sure their number is accurate.

      All I ask is that if you are going to make the kind of statements you made above that you back if up with facts, not just what you heard on CNN or read on a blog somewhere.

      The truth of the matter is, if the OP's primary requirement is to get the most secure mobile platform he can get, BlackBerry is the only one that can deliver a single streamlined, robust, and scalable solution. Period.

    31. Re:Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd love to get further insight into the exact reasoning you used to arrive at the conclusion above. Otherwise, I'm left only with an empty and hollow statement that shed no light on the validity or soundness of your argument.

      Don't get me wrong, RIM has issues and definitely must get them addressed to become successful again, but what business doesn't? How come no one is talking about the situation that Nokia finds itself in today (which I'd argue is a thousand times more severe than RIMs)? I know that Nokia might not have a MDM solution that can be discussed with relevance, but if one is to conclude that RIM isn't a good company to buy devices from due to their current situation one should also mention Nokia in such a statement. Otherwise, your spewing nothing but biased opinion that doesn't really help the OP make an objective decision.

    32. Re:Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you make an idiotic statement like something feeling "less fragmented" and someone calls you out on it, it's not trolling. Unless, of course, you'd care to educate the rest of us on exactly what it means to feel "less fragmented."

      I'm guessing you're not a computer guy. I've never heard the word "fragmented" used in that context, unless you're somehow referring to a fragmented swap file slowing things down ... in which case, you really don't know what you're talking about.

    33. Re:Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because Blackberry does the encrypted thing, and if you buy BES you can also set device policies and centrally administer the devices (remote wipe for example).

      Maybe true, but Blackberry also hands out the decryption keys to whomever asks for them. And even if they don't, their encryption is broken.

      http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/10/02/1624216/russian-software-company-says-its-app-can-crack-blackberry-security
      http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/04/14/2323203/rim-co-ceo-cries-no-fair-on-security-question
      http://it.slashdot.org/story/10/10/01/166226/blackberrys-encryption-hacked-backups-now-a-risk
      http://it.slashdot.org/story/10/09/05/0125211/dubais-police-chief-calls-blackberry-a-spy-tool

      ... ad nauseaium

    34. Re:Blackberry? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A billion in hardware losses for them is a billion in hardware GAINS for the consumer!

      Either that or their products suck, plain and simple, with losses on both ends of the stick. Changing your infrastructure to rely on a product slated to go out of business is the best way to queue yourself up to the chain of lossers!

    35. Re:Blackberry? by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      The market is not a zero sum game. A billion in losses is not a billion in someone else's gains. If it were so, who gains the value of something depreciating?

      Entropy does. At this point, they are sitting on a lot of revenue.

    36. Re:Blackberry? by BagOBones · · Score: 1

      Playbooks and BB OS X devices will REQUIRE mobile fusion on top of BES. Mobile fusion is barely out of beta. If you manage blackberries and don't know this you might also want to go check out the License cost for this upgrade, you might be shocked.

      --
      EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
    37. Re:Blackberry? by BagOBones · · Score: 1

      Also if you check the news for the ONLY platform with centralization to the point of causing National/ North America wide device outages, and being forced to hand over some control to other governments by building in centralization in a specific way, you have RIM..

      On the plus side we haven't had a nation wide outage on RIM in over a year, must be all the surplus capacity. We started to see a surge in iOS device uptake during the last one.

      --
      EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
    38. Re:Blackberry? by hawkbat05 · · Score: 1

      I've been working in IT for about a decade actually. Just because you're not used to hearing it like that doesn't mean it's wrong, just unconventional perhaps. I did go on to better explain it in my next post, since it evidently needed some clarification. And saying "Dude...lol...and stfu" is not calling me out on it, that comment didn't add anything to the discussion or counter my viewpoint. It was meant only to start a pointless war like this. If the phrase needed more definition or context there are better ways to say it. I don't believe that he/she was at work and couldn't log in with their real account, if his/her Nexus phones work so great, just log in through one of them.

    39. Re:Blackberry? by hawkbat05 · · Score: 1

      RIM is already using ActiveSync in the PlayBook OS, which is what will become BB 10. Microsoft won't be able to lock out certain vendors devices overtly, that would open them up to an investigation for anti-competitive practices. I'm sure they would like to be able to but it just won't happen. Do you really think Google or RIM would just throw up the white flag and let Microsoft lock their OS's out of ActiveSync (or whatever new protocol they create to replace it)?

      http://bizblog.blackberry.com/2012/03/mobile-device-roadmap/

    40. Re:Blackberry? by mlts · · Score: 1

      Of course not, but Google and RIM could have a very uphill battle, especially if MS has some patents they can use on the ActiveSync replacement.

      MS isn't dealing with a hostile DoJ these days. In fact, if MS actively blocked devices from using the AS replacement, there is nothing Google or RIM could do. Antitrust? MS's lawyers would happily show that POP and IMAP are open protocols and can still be used, so there is no "monopoly", just people wanting to use their protocol.

      Of course, I'm doing pure devil's advocate speculation here. However, MS does own that protocol and even Apple has acknowledged that, and MS can at any time only allow what devices they so choose to use it, and this can be enforced in court under a EULA.

    41. Re:Blackberry? by hawkbat05 · · Score: 1

      What about Siri? Or MobileMe/iCloud? Even Gmail has unexpected outages. With RIM's move on the PlayBook OS to use ActiveSync and standard web protocols for accessing email you're ending up with RIM's infrastructure being used only for added features, which even Apple and Google can't claim 100% uptime for. On PlayBook/BB10 if RIM's network goes down your ActiveSync, POP/IMAP email will still work. Going forward, you really have no more impact from an outage of a service than you would with any of the big vendors.

      On the topic of control by governments, don't worry about that, the telcos are all in the various governments pockets already (Bush proved that with his wiretapping).

    42. Re:Blackberry? by BagOBones · · Score: 1

      Fair enough, BB OS 10 adopts active-sync removing much of the dependance.

      What about Siri? Or MobileMe/iCloud? Even Gmail has unexpected outages. Those are consumer features or services.

      For Enterprise Email, calendaring and directory a current gen BB device simply has more points of failure to hop through before you get the message.

      ActiveSync is Exchange->Internet->Device
      BES BB7 and below is Exchange->BES->RIM->Internet->Device two additional points of failure.

      --
      EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
    43. Re:Blackberry? by sootman · · Score: 1

      Plus, if you go with RIM today, you'll get to do all this again in a year or two after they're done imploding! Maybe you can volunteer to run their NOC!

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  9. Good for Enterprise by jmarka · · Score: 2, Informative

    Timothy, You should take a look at Good for Enterprise www.good.com Best, jmarka

    1. Re:Good for Enterprise by BagOBones · · Score: 1

      I agree, looking around Good, would be the closest off the shelf solution, it would also work with iOS devices giving you access to BOTH the most popular platforms right now..

      --
      EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
    2. Re:Good for Enterprise by Bogtha · · Score: 4, Informative

      One of my clients attempted to use Good for secure email on iOS last year. They were entirely unresponsive to even the slightest technical queries and their stuff was incompatible with other apps. Also, parent comment sounds like spam.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    3. Re:Good for Enterprise by narcc · · Score: 2

      Good can't do half of what RIM's management software can do. Their new Fusion software can also manage other platforms in addition to BlackBerries -- including iOS and Android. Good is okay, but it doesn't compare to RIM's best-in-class tools.

    4. Re:Good for Enterprise by SomePgmr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I spent years managing Good on our mobiles and mail servers. It really was a miserable experience.

      I'd probably do it again before switching to blackberries, though. I think they've changed ownership once or twice since I was using it.

    5. Re:Good for Enterprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ^^

      We use it here. The promised an Android browser "in 6 months". Took 18 months. It crashes all the time. You get the point...

    6. Re:Good for Enterprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Motorola's Good for Enterprise is the platform we used several years ago when we went through the Treo era. Then we migrated to Blackberry, which for its time, was better than Good. Now, we have a mix of Iphone\Android, and Good is the only system that can handle encryption and device management, for both. Fusion can manage the devices, but is not quite there yet for handling email flow on the other devices.

      Good has developed apps for Ipad, Iphone, and Android. All seem to work great for secure mobile email. Biggest drawback is the lack of synchronization for tasks and notes that are in Outlook. And I am not sure about the encryption of phone calls.

      Good luck!

    7. Re:Good for Enterprise by MailtoDelete · · Score: 1

      I have used Good in the past and was disappointed with the UE. I am at a new company now and we decided to go with MobileIron because we support both iOS and Android and we needed an enterprise app store. It didn't hurt that MI supports almost any moblie OS (but for Android encryption it depends on touchdown). I think our costs are about half what my previous employer was paying for Good.

  10. Android 4.0.x ICS Can Be Encrypted by Jumperalex · · Score: 1

    While trolling around my Galaxy Nexus I found the ability to encrypt it (not using it though). At the least that should protect data on the phone, surely you can find more details about that feature on the intertubes.

    Calls are already "secure" to a point but if you need even more security then perhaps Skype?

    text ... I'll leave that to others

    --
    If you can't be good, be good at it!
    1. Re:Android 4.0.x ICS Can Be Encrypted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or keep an eye open for that TextSecure and RedPhone to be re-released (sucks that some company bought them out and removed them from the market for now). TextSecure "encrypted" your text messages as much as it could via text.. though you'd be better off with running your own XMPP/Jabber server and having intra-office messaging done over your own encrypted "chat" server...

      RedPhone was suppose to be able to make securely encrypted calls to others who had the application installed, although I never got to try it because no one I know who had an android phone had the application installed. But there again, you could set your own secure "VoIP" server and use something like SipDroid to handle intra-office calls (even if they are carried over the internet as you can setup VPN's on Android).

      Just a few thoughts of things I've personally done just messing around, or things we do here at the university I work at (such as the XMPP/Jabber server).

    2. Re:Android 4.0.x ICS Can Be Encrypted by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      If calling through skype, why not texting too?

      I would think a cell call is as safe as a landline though.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  11. good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    my brief foray with android showed me that pretty much every app wants access to everything on the phone, including phone-home capability.

    1. Re:good luck by X0563511 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Blame the security "roles" not the app developers.

      Want your app to detect if you're on a call, so it doesn't blow your eardrum out with an alert tone?

      Well, then you need "Access to Phone State / Identity" ... just for an example.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    2. Re:good luck by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Yeah, they really need a special permission for accessing ads from specific services.

      Every free app needs net access, and therefor the permission is meaningless.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    3. Re:good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A proper OS would enforce that kind of behavior on the apps. No special app-level settings necessary.

    4. Re:good luck by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      The OS can - mods like cyannogen frequently allow the user to deny apps given permissions.

      The problem is the "locked down" distribution the carriers force on users don't let you do so. Yea, they "know better than you" and remove that kind of control.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  12. RIM/Blackberry by alphax45 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You basically described the RIM/Blackberry use case; why not use them? The Bold 9900 is actually a nice phone.

    --
    K Man
    1. Re:RIM/Blackberry by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      I guess mostly this

      days numbered...

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    2. Re:RIM/Blackberry by kae77 · · Score: 1

      +1

    3. Re:RIM/Blackberry by X0563511 · · Score: 2

      Stock price or price-per-share does not indicate nor does it necessarily correlate with the health of a company.

      Investing 101, man. Come on.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    4. Re:RIM/Blackberry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you are tagging it as a BUY?

    5. Re:RIM/Blackberry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      they have more cash than a lot of companies... and enough patents to stay relevant; most everyone I know (yea I'm in canada) use BB

      I've done the iToy thing and it's fun to an extent then it's just a nuissance; I don't need distractions when all I want (and need) is my email, IM, and phone (yes, people still call other people!)

    6. Re:RIM/Blackberry by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

      100% agree.
      The security of a BES/BB combination cannot be equaled by any current handset/OS (Unless the NSA/CIA/etc. have a secret one nobody knows about). If you must use Android then RIM has a solution for that as well.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    7. Re:RIM/Blackberry by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      I didn't say that' I'm saying that saying a company is on it's death bed solely on market performance is stupid and wrong.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  13. Android 4 and VPN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get a Nexus phone or a contract with a vendor that guaranties security updates. Have a VPN. Pay for Google Apps (Remote wipe, forced password policies, forced full disk encryption all from a nice easy console). Even then, these are consumer phones. The manufactures aren't targeting towards you.

    Also remove SMS and use some other communications tools such as Google Talk. There are secure SMS tools for android but the second one of your idiot employees installs the latest zynga game all of the text messages are able to be captured by that program.

    --Sparksis.

  14. Android isn't the platform for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately I am of the opinion that Android is NOT the platform for this (I use Android for my personal phone). It doesn't support it and as you see you need to use third-party applications to even make it work. Even if you could trust those third-parties, now how do you push updates to your reps? The answer is you don't. There are just too many hoops to jump through for a business where security is a "major consideration." I'd recommend Blackberry but it seems RIM could be going under any day. iOS is probably a better choice because it supports FDE out of the box. Though, in all honesty, if security is a major consideration, the real answer is that your reps should ONLY be using feature phones rather than smartphones.

    1. Re:Android isn't the platform for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you...

    2. Re:Android isn't the platform for this by narcc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not worried about RIM going under. They've been supposedly dying for years, but they just now posted their first quarterly loss. (Even with non-competitive handsets, they were still profitable. The 9900 is amazing, but you get my meaning.) Their customer base is growing and they've got plenty of cash on hand. They've got a fantastic suite of new development tools, best-in-class new remote management software, business friendly features like Balance, and a new operating system that is, by any metric, a cut above the rest Their app library is also growing like crazy and they're doing a fantastic job of recruiting new developers with a fantastic and varied suite of development tools. The handsets out this fall running their new OS look to be exceptionally high-end, with a brilliant UI.

      RIM is hardly dying. They're a popular whipping-boy, but there are other companies doing far worse than RIM that don't get the same media bashing. When is the last time you heard that Sony is dying? They're worse off than RIM, and don't appear to have a strategy moving forward.

      RIM is in no danger of "going under any day". That's been the line everyone's been chanting for the past year or so, sure, but that whole time their customer base was growing at an alarming rate and they were posting profits every quarter.

    3. Re:Android isn't the platform for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What hogwash. RIM is circling the bowl. Your cheerleading and astroturfing isn't going to change that unless they take a radical change in direction from top to bottom. They can't remain competitive if they continue to rely on a UI that is hopelessly outdated and clunky.

    4. Re:Android isn't the platform for this by El+Rey · · Score: 1
    5. Re:Android isn't the platform for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. You sound like you're a marketing guy for RIM. RIM has been dying in the last year, without a doubt. Any analyst worth their salt will tell you that. Why do you think management is jumping from that sinking ship?

      Let's put this into perspective a bit, shall we? Up until roughly the last year or so, they had just barely remained afloat. They announced more than just a suite of under-performing products, and poorly designed to boot. Then, they did it a second year in a row, while focusing more on software instead of the PRODUCT. The hardware was underpowered, and it doesn't matter how good the SOFTWARE is if the HARDWARE isn't worth shit.

      RIM posted MASSIVE losses this last year. When a company is posting LOSSES, they are no longer making a profit. They are cutting their workforce by 6000 employees, at LEAST. That is another bad sign. I've been saying it for a while, they need to focus more on hardware, and adopt a readily available OS, such as Android or Windows Phone 7. Until then, that ship will continue sinking. They missed the right boat.

    6. Re:Android isn't the platform for this by narcc · · Score: 1

      RIM has made radical changes from top to bottom. Their new UI is a generation ahead of iOS and Android as is their OS -- Multitasking, notifications, messaging in the mobile space are redefined in their new revolutionary platform.

      Try to keep up. You're embarrassing AC's everywhere!

  15. bad requirements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Security is a major consideration for us, so I'm looking for the most secure off-the-shelf solution for this.

    These are contradictory requirements. If it's off-the-shelf it's not secure. You can't know that the chip factory isn't compromised, unless you inspect it.

    The problem is you can't afford security. This is not a problem that has a solution. You need to just accept failure.

    1. Re:bad requirements by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 1

      If it's off-the-shelf it's not secure. You can't know that the chip factory isn't compromised, unless you inspect it

      By the same logic, no product that you did not develop, including designing the CPU and any other chips, and fabricate yourself, down to the last individual resistor and diode, is secure. Which is patently absurd, since by this logic, any sort of secure device would be nigh-unaffordable, since you'd need to set up the entire fabrication chain to build just one prototype, requiring an absurd amount of capital.
      A notion highlighted by the recent story on how Chinese-fabbed US military chips apparently contain a backdoor on the hardware.

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
    2. Re:bad requirements by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      I take it you haven't read On Trusting Trust?

    3. Re:bad requirements by hawguy · · Score: 1

      If it's off-the-shelf it's not secure. You can't know that the chip factory isn't compromised, unless you inspect it

      By the same logic, no product that you did not develop, including designing the CPU and any other chips, and fabricate yourself, down to the last individual resistor and diode, is secure. Which is patently absurd, since by this logic, any sort of secure device would be nigh-unaffordable, since you'd need to set up the entire fabrication chain to build just one prototype, requiring an absurd amount of capital.
      A notion highlighted by the recent story on how Chinese-fabbed US military chips apparently contain a backdoor on the hardware.

      Absurd as it may be, it's true.

      Well, maybe you can trust the resistors, but if you really have secret data to protect, you really can't trust even a CPU to be secure - there's no telling what's hidden in the microcode or what backdoors a software or hardware manufacturer has built in to the product "just for maintenance and testing purposes" (or at a government's request).

    4. Re:bad requirements by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Its not patently absurd. You are basically saying 'trust is hard, so we shouldnt try"

      --
      Good-bye
    5. Re:bad requirements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, that reminds me of one of my favorite spy jokes: "My work is that classified that even myself I don't know what the hell I'm doing ...". Joke aside, security is a process, that's why they invented the word trust.

    6. Re:bad requirements by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 1

      If that's the one about the possible compromise of the GCC compiler, I did. And it mirrors my point perfectly: you can't be sure there's no backdoor, unless you make it yourself from the ground up, and if that's not possible, just trust the chain.

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
  16. Sounds like a job for... by a90Tj2P7 · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... Blackberry. Aside from encrypting phone calls themselves, everything you're asking to do is something even a basic Curve will do out of the box - encrypting the phone storage and SD card, requiring a password to install apps. And that's without using any enterprise tools to manage the devices and security policies across the board, remotely.

    1. Re:Sounds like a job for... by cesarbp · · Score: 1

      But cant do point to point voice encryption, if using android, take a look at secvoice, my company, we have a nice product, please contact me: cesar.bremer at secvoice.com.br

  17. Any phone with ICS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Android 4.0 has full device encryption.

    1. Re:Any phone with ICS by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

      1) Who compiled it (a release manager at the OEM who is the lowest paid guy on the team)?
      2) Who reviewed it (no one)?
      3) Who audited it (no one)?
      4) Is the OS signed and locked to the phone (nope)?
      5) Can an OEM slipstream device drivers or system level code onto the device (yes)?
      6) Can app developers slipstream drivers or system level code onto the device (usually)?

      Unless you can be 100% sure that the guy who compiled release of the OS was actually aware of what they were doing with regards to security (less than 10% chance), it is entirely possible the phone should not be considered secured.

  18. Nexus + ICS + F-Secure by lostsoulz · · Score: 1

    Get a Nexus. However, nothing is secure once someone has their hands on it (insert obligatory XKCD encryption link.) At least F-Secure Mobile Security reduces the attack surface before it's stolen and allows you to remote-wipe after it has been stolen. I don't work for F-Secure BTW!

  19. Rock, meet hard place. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Pretty much sounds like you need a blackberry. Only they offer what you describe.
    Trouble is, blackberry phones are crap, BES is crap, the blackberry network is crap, and the blackberry company (RIM) is circling the drain.

    Turns out the infrastructure you need for your idea of a "secure" phone is more trouble than it's worth. Most companies have come to the realization that security is in fact a social and policy issue and much less a technological one. Just get good quality bog standard smart phones and create a policy that minimizes risk.

    That said, iphones are officially supported activesync devices and will respect activesync security policies set by an exchange server. You can remote wipe them. (Funny thing - Winphone7's activesync support is provisional and not recommended for an enterprise environment - Microsoft's words!)

    1. Re:Rock, meet hard place. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're saying it's more trouble than it's worth... wouldn't you recommend him NOT to do it himself and use the Blackberry which has this setup from Day1? Circling the drain... I think they need to show losses for more than 1 quarter. Sure they aren't valued the same or as big as they used to be but if developers support this "app-crazy" world they'll be fine. When it comes down to it, real businesses will want keyboards. Touch screen-only phones are for games.

  20. Unless you're a phone manufacturer... by idontgno · · Score: 2

    there's nothing you can do to a phone that a savvy user can't also do (or undo).

    And if you are a phone manufacturer, (A) it's easy to more-or-less do what you're saying, and (B) there will still be people to can find work-arounds to break out of the lockdown.

    The only reason I mention this is that Android has an energetic modding community, in spite of platform security built into some of these. (Locked bootloaders, S-ON partitions, etc.)

    Just using your "for example" as an example... if you can put flash Cyanogenmod onto the phone, your users can flash a completely different ROM and defeat a lot of the things you want to do. The tools you would use are available to anyone, and if you try to deny your users root (for instance), there are plenty of root exploits available to break that jail.

    In general, I think smartphones are too much general-purpose computers to really secure in the static way you're thinking about.

    As to the (perhaps more weighty) matters like all-storage encryption, I have never seen a good answer. Anything you could install as an app would probably be too shallow (i.e., not effective before booting). In fact, I don't know if the standard Android Linux kernels are amenable to that; you'd need a custom bootloader or 2nd stage, and I haven't seen those specifically tailored for storage decryption.

    I dunno. Sounds like you have a challenge ahead of you.

    --
    Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  21. Too expensive? by hawguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know that Boeing is producing a secure phone, which is no doubt good — but probably too expensive for us

    If a secure, off the shelf phone is too expensive for you, you probably don't have the resources to build a secure phone yourself. Even the experts have trouble getting security right, an amateur will unknowingly leave big gaping holes.

    That said, Android ICS will do full filesystem encryption, make sure you use a secure passphrase and not a 4 digit PIN. Use SSL to talk to your email server to keep that traffic from being snooped. Don't use SMS's.

    Do you really need to encrypt your phone calls? Stick with a CDMA provider (supposedly it's trivial to hack GSM, but I believe CDMA is still relatively safe) and your calls are safe from all but the most determined (and well funded) eavesdropper. Unless you're worried about the US Government doing the eavesdropping, they'll just tap the call on the Telco side, so you need end-to-end encryption to protect against that.

    Skype reportedly encrypts skype-to-skype calls.

    But really, unless you're doing top-secret government work, your phone is the least of your worries. If the information is valuable, it's much easier to pay an employee to leak it than to steal your phone and hope to find the data stored on the phone. And if you are doing top-secret government work, a home-brew solution isn't going to meet the federal standards you'll be required to meet.

    1. Re:Too expensive? by wkk2 · · Score: 1

      I suspect that no off the shelf product is secure from the network side. The hardware needs to have two independent blocks: a communications module and a application module. The two need to be linked with a well defined API so that the communications module can't change the application code and there is a good point for an audit. There are probably regulatory issues like GPS to emergency services, not being able to hang up an emergency call, etc. You need to be able to load the application code from a secure interface with signed code etc. A smart card slot for application module key material would be a plus. Good luck trying to find one and good luck getting approval to sell one with these features.

    2. Re:Too expensive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the security of the wireless communication protocol (GSM or CDMA) is only relevant until the nearest base-station. From then the conversation may continue in many forms, some encrypted and some not. Trivial case: "secure" CDMA made towards trivially wiretapped POTS analogue landline.

    3. Re:Too expensive? by oldbamboo · · Score: 2

      Just to add, majority of phones can be tricked into dropping down to GSM from 3G. All phones (bar the BB) should be treated as untrusted devices. Tunnel everything, encrypt everything, store nothing and you're part way there :-)

      --
      You may not agree with what I say, but you should fight to the death to allow me to say it, by modding me up.
    4. Re:Too expensive? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Even the experts have trouble getting security right, an amateur will unknowingly leave big gaping holes...But really, unless you're doing top-secret government work, your phone is the least of your worries.

      Something about the OP's question bothered me, and this helped me put my finger on it. I think one of the big rules of security should be: don't trust your security. There's something about the question that sniffs of "How do I make my phones so full-proof secure that I don't need to worry about them anymore?" The first part of the answer has to be, if it were that easy, then we'd all have perfectly secure phones and you wouldn't be asking the question.

      Encrypting calls and network traffic are probably not actually necessary. If you're doing something that requires that level of security, then you should have a security expert and the expense of the Boeing phones might be justified. You're probably not, though, and so password protecting the phone itself and encrypting the drive should be good enough. Even so, those things aren't fool-proof.

      I'm always surprised at how much of an issue people make about the capability to remotely wipe phones, given how rarely it's useful. If the phone is simply lost, it's better to have something on the lock-screen that says, "If found, please contact [whoever]." If the phone is stolen because they want the hardware, they're just going to wipe the data anyway. If people are stealing it for the data, then all they have to do is block the phone/internet signal and the remote wipe won't happen.

      So don't put too much faith in security gimmicks. It's better to stick to simple things: try to prevent data from being stored on portable devices that get taken remotely. If you have to take it out of the building, use something that you can auto-lock after a timeout, password protect, and encrypt the storage. You're probably not going to get much better than that.

    5. Re:Too expensive? by hawkbat05 · · Score: 1

      I'm always surprised at how much of an issue people make about the capability to remotely wipe phones, given how rarely it's useful. If the phone is simply lost, it's better to have something on the lock-screen that says, "If found, please contact [whoever]." If the phone is stolen because they want the hardware, they're just going to wipe the data anyway. If people are stealing it for the data, then all they have to do is block the phone/internet signal and the remote wipe won't happen.

      That's why BB has an optional policy that will cause a phone to wipe itself if it can't contact the server for a set amount of time. Once contact is lost a timer starts on the phone itself so no server contact is required for a wipe to occur. This is of course a double edged sword that could get triggered if a user goes on vacation but simple planning can prevent that from being an issue.

    6. Re:Too expensive? by hawguy · · Score: 1

      That's why BB has an optional policy that will cause a phone to wipe itself if it can't contact the server for a set amount of time. Once contact is lost a timer starts on the phone itself so no server contact is required for a wipe to occur. This is of course a double edged sword that could get triggered if a user goes on vacation but simple planning can prevent that from being an issue.

      I wasn't aware of that policy, and there are a few others (from http://docs.blackberry.com/en/admin/deliverables/4222/Secure_Wipe_Delay_After_IT_Policy_Received_204226_11.jsp)

      • Secure Wipe Delay After IT Policy Received IT policy rule (this is the one you mentioned - if it doesn't receive an IT policy update within X hours, it wipes)
      • Secure Wipe Delay After Lock IT policy rule (if the user doesn't unlock the device within X hours, it wipes)
      • Secure Wipe if Low Battery IT policy rule
  22. BlackBerry by trevc · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Get BlackBerry. Android is the wrong choice for your requirements.

  23. Obfuscated Texting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My company just released Raptcha which converts messages into captcha images to be sent via mms, email or however, thus bypassing keyword filters and traps.

    http://www.google.com/m?hl=en&gl=us&client=ms-android-huawei&source=android-browser-type&q=google+play+raptcha

    1. Re:Obfuscated Texting by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      Except for the keyword filters and traps that are cheap workers in the Third World.

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
  24. Why Android? by scream+at+the+sky · · Score: 3

    Just a question, but why Android?

    If you indeed NEED the security (I do for work, which is why I have a BlackBerry) why not just go the tried and true route of BlackBerry? Security is built in, everything except SMS (to my knowledge) can be encrypted, and you don't have to worry about updates from a 3rd party firmware (CM) breaking your apps or security model.

    Other things I LOVE about my BlackBerry...

    • Every key is a speed dial, I have about 20 of them mapped to the people I call the most. Very intuitive.
    • The keyboard is wonderful of hammering out mid to long emails. Swype helps, but I still find the keyboard faster.
    • Kick Ass Speaker Phone.
    • Full day battery life. Don't underestimate this.
    • It's easier to decipher who an email comes from, as it uses the same display info as my phone book does. On anything that uses active sync, my email is addressed in the same format as the Exchange server, which means every shows in my list as come from "Lastname, Firstname (EMPLOYEE#)" On my Berry, is shows as "Dad" or "Jeff (Regional)" instead. This is invaluable, as I can name people in my phone book in regards to my relationship with them, and I don't have to go digging through the exchange directory to find out what a persons job title is if I only correspond with them twice a year, and have forgotten who they are."
    • You can encrypt the device, as well as any memory cards.

    This is a sincere question. I carry two devices (BB 9900 for work, and a CM9 rom'd SGS2 for my personal phone) and I personally cannot stand the exchange email client on Android, it just seems slow and clunky, and CM9 helped a little bit, but not much. Use the right tool for the job, instead of trying to shoehorn a tool into the job you want it to do.

    --
    I wish I was a neutron bomb, for once I could go off...
  25. Samsung as a starting point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm using a Samsung Galaxy Note and noticed that it offers hardware encryption AND a "Samsung Enterprise Mobility" service. So, there's definitely a company offering encryption out there.

  26. Why not an iPhone? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I would also say Blackberry, others have covered that angle well though...

    But why are you not considering an iPhone? Storage on the device is hardware encrypted, and can be wiped remotely. You cannot have people using un-secured SD cards with it.

    There's nothing you can do to secure SMS since that's a carrier level thing, but you can use any number of secured messaging applications.

    But really the biggest red flag I see is - you claim to be worried about security but then are trying to base a solution on the single most vulnerable platform for malware attacks. How can you responsibly suggest that for enterprise use?

    I would also recommend WP7 but I just don't know enough about the features it offers to be sure about securing the device.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Why not an iPhone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because this guy is most likely and Android enthusiast that (unfortunately) is in a position to pick what technology to use. If you want security, Android should not even be on the list of candidates to use in the enterprise where security is paramount.

      But no, he'll do it anyways because he's biased and probably needs the job security of maintaining such a system. In the end, the user community will hate the phones and whatever systems it's using.

    2. Re:Why not an iPhone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe his company has some proprietary applications that he needs to load on the phones and obviously he's on a budget which immediately knocks out iOS and windows phone. But keep trolling you and the douchebag GP. Keep trolling.

    3. Re:Why not an iPhone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      *sigh* another uninformed iPhone fanboy

      But why are you not considering an iPhone? Storage on the device is hardware encrypted, and can be wiped remotely. You cannot have people using un-secured SD cards with it.

      The Galaxy Nexus as well as any other Anrdoid 4.0 phone supports full encryption. Also, the Galaxy Nexus does not have an sdcard slot. Furthermore, Android can be set up to be managed from a console in google apps and managed and wiped remotely.

      But really the biggest red flag I see is - you claim to be worried about security but then are trying to base a solution on the single most vulnerable platform for malware attacks. How can you responsibly suggest that for enterprise use?

      And the hate spews out. Android is just as secure as anything else if not more so. The fact is that with remote management and locking the device down, he can block the install of third party applications and with it any malware. And while you are crowing against Android, iOS is regularly exploited by just going to a simple web page. When's the last time an Android 4.0 phone had that happen to it?

    4. Re:Why not an iPhone? by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      with or without locking out the Google AppStore?

      Or are you saying that you are not worried about random apps your users will buy from the appstore?

      And when iOS can be exploited by going to a simple web page, Apple releases an update, and you apply that update. How do you apply any update to a non-Nexus phone? Is it even available?

    5. Re:Why not an iPhone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      with or without locking out the Google AppStore?

      This is a business phone owned by the company of course you would lock out the AppStore. If a user has a particular need then they can ask. A modern smartphone is a miniature PC. Would you let your PC users just install whatever they wanted?

      And when iOS can be exploited by going to a simple web page, Apple releases an update, and you apply that update. How do you apply any update to a non-Nexus phone? Is it even available?

      I would only consider either a Nexus device or a device specifically set up for this kind of duty like the Droid Pro from Motorola.

    6. Re:Why not an iPhone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really trust Apple guys to weed out all the the malware?
      http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2011/11/08/apple%E2%80%99s-app-store-security-compromised/

    7. Re:Why not an iPhone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If RIM implements sim too kit properly (many mfs don't) then these work great for encrypting sms messages on GSM phones (sandwiched between the sim and the phone):

      http://bladox.com/doc/tsim_sec_ed_en-r03050116.pdf

  27. Citrix CloudGateway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Citrix CloudGateway: Access your apps(windows apps, web/saas apps, native mobile apps) and data, from any device, always secured using Citrix. It also has MAM - Mobile Application Management - built into it! Check it out at: www.citrix.com/cloudgateway

  28. Weak spec: Secure from what while doing what? by Fubari · · Score: 5, Informative

    You spec could honestly be stronger.
    What threats do you want to secure against? What scenarios do you want to avoid? Do you want to ensure against virus protection? Lost devices? (e.g. oh noes! our client list is on wikileaks!) Locking down data?
    For bonus points, what are the top three things your "reps" need to do?
    Just make calls? Or do texting? Or access web mail? Or...?
    And how many "reps" are there today? How many will there be next year?
    And what is your logistics model? Everybody at the same physical workplace? Distributed "virtual" office? Different countries? Different languages?
    Does your phone need to integrate with any of your workflow software?

    Try writing up five or six hundred words on the above to enhance your question - I'm sure you'll get some useful advice if you do that.

    1. Re:Weak spec: Secure from what while doing what? by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      key is - are you going to allow non-default apps. If you allow appstore, what policies will you have in place? Can they install Girls Around Me for example? porn? etc

    2. Re:Weak spec: Secure from what while doing what? by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      No, because then we'll say he's incompetent for asking slashdot to do his job for him, rather than our telling him he's incompetent because his spec is incomplete.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    3. Re:Weak spec: Secure from what while doing what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spot on. A decent threat risk assessment would be a good starting point.

  29. Codename Android + Major cleanup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have been using the codename android on nexus s phone and deleting ton of apps, kinda tricky but worth it, i could send you the package if you are interested, reply in comment

  30. MobileIron by gregthebunny · · Score: 2

    I'm surprised I'm the only one suggesting this: Android Management

    Phone calls are already encrypted. Text messages stored on the phone will be encrypted if the phone's system storage is also encrypted. Data traffic can be encrypted by forcing the use of VPN back to the company's local network (and as such, web filtering, etc. also applied).

    1. Re:MobileIron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "30-Day SmartStart /after/ attending 'Trusted Mobility' introduction"

      Yeah, sure, i'm going to work to be allowed to buy their software.... The same crap with all 'them DeviceManagment Manufactors, "you can't simply buy our software, that would be too easy, you have to take an interview by a sales bitch first, then we evaluate your request to become a customer, then MAYBE, just MAYBE you're allowed to buy >500 Licenses"...

    2. Re:MobileIron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've used and like MobileIron for policy enforcement, working well with iPhones. I don't like TouchDown encryption, so basically limited to motorola androids that come with encryption. Then you have to worry about the android app store.

    3. Re:MobileIron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MITM attacks on GSM phones via portable base stations do away with any kind of encryption. The base station simply sets a bit to turn it off.

  31. Too obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reading through the posted answers I see BlackBerry popping up many times.

    Why do I have a nagging suspicious that the 'anonymous reader' was hoping that would be the case?

  32. Is security NEEDED or ASSUMED? by TheSkepticalOptimist · · Score: 1

    This is the first question you need to answer, most likely the answer is the latter.

    --
    I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
  33. BB by Corson · · Score: 4, Informative

    There is a... um, little known company, don't know if you ever heard of it, called Research in Motion, that has been making security on their smartphones their main priority SINCE 1999.

    1. Re:BB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have ... umm... a little problem... um... no one likes their shitty products and they are bleeding money out their assholes. How much longer do you think RIM will even have a product to sell?

    2. Re:BB by PeanutButterBreath · · Score: 2

      They have ... umm... a little problem... um... no one likes their shitty products and they are bleeding money. . .

      And yet there are no better products that offer equivalent features. Perhaps their troubles are related to the fact while people want security, its not so easy to deliver it along with the other features that end-users demand.

    3. Re:BB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet there are no better products that offer equivalent features. Perhaps their troubles are related to the fact while people want security, its not so easy to deliver it along with the other features that end-users demand.

      Incorrect. Android running ICS is capable of strong device encryption, remote wipe and custom security policies through google device management service. Also secure apps are available to replace BB Messenger (KIK) and if you use Linphone with SRTP enabled, you can use your Android to make secure encrypted calls over public and private networks.

      Besides, anyone with contacts that include more than 2 personal and 2 work email addresses knows that Blackberrys completely munge their contact data. BB literally looks at the contact, and decides that there is too much info and truncates the contact without telling you. Then it syncs to your address book server and munges your contacts there as well. This was confirmed to me by Tier 2 Engineers at RIM... FML.

      I would rather use a smokey campfire and a blanket to send secure messenges than a Blackberry.

    4. Re:BB by taylortbb · · Score: 1

      You are aware they have zero debt and are sitting on over a billion in cash and growing? Yes, growing their cash, even this quarter with all the doom and gloom. You have a very interesting definition of "bleeding money out their assholes". They're also adding subscribers, total number of people with active BlackBerrys is at an all time high. They have their issues but they're not going to be filing for bankruptcy tomorrow, despite common perception.

    5. Re:BB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ooh, over one *bites pinky* BILLION dollars in cash. And they're having a hard time in the market... odd how neither Google (with ten times the cash stockpile) nor Apple (with a hundred times the cash stockpile) has shown any interest in buying them for all their unique, cutting-edge technology.

  34. Too much free time on your hands? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    I was thinking of maybe installing Cyanogenmod onto something, using a permissions management app to try and lock down some backdoors and searching out a trustworthy text and phone encryption app. Any good ideas out there?

    Custom-rolled solutions like this are a bad idea, and from a practical standpoint will likely result in less security going forward. Do you just have too much free time on your hands?

    This is a problem that's largely been solved.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  35. encrypted calls by jbolden · · Score: 1

    use encryption for texting and phone calls.

    I can't recommend or not recommend but http://www.koolspan.com/ offers a product to do this. Otherwise Nokia has been doing it for 8 years though with Symbian not Android.

  36. How do you know...how do you know by sunking2 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    How do you know anything?

    And just a heads up, your company and it's information isn't nearly as important as you think it is and probably doesn't necessitate the need for any of this.

  37. Whisper Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whisper Systems is still in beta, but is free.

    1. Re:Whisper Systems by chill · · Score: 1

      Unavailable and has been for months. Pure vaporware at this point.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  38. Enterproid Divide ? by hubs99 · · Score: 1

    How about Enterproid's Divide App It basically carves out an "Enterprise" section to an individuals phone. Space is encrypted and you can enforce Exchange mobile security policy. In function, when you log into the app it looks like a whole new Android Launcher with secure apps for phone, calendar, email, sms, etc. Give it shot. J

  39. Blackberry is the right choice by juniorkindergarten · · Score: 3, Informative

    The combination of Blackberry and BES is the correct choice if you want a secure enterprise solution. With a BES server you have complete control over the phones. Policies allow logging of everything that the phone does, including if you want all incoming and outgoing text messages, push and pull apps and calling restrictions.
    The difference between consumer and enterprise blackberry is that the BES server has a secure key that you create and is unknown to blackberry, bis is controlled by blackberry and is snoopable by governments.
    I've found that the battery life is better on a blackberry, but the browser isnt the greatest, but has improved in the newest models. Another thing to keep in mind is the battery is field swappable, so if the battery wears out, YOU can switch it out, or carry a spare.
    Blackberry made the mistake of getting into consumer phones, but for enterprise situations, blackberry is the best way to go.

    --
    "Every security scheme that is based on secrets eventually fails." - Steve Jobs
  40. Google "Mobile Device Management" by zizzybaloobah · · Score: 1

    You can choose from any number of Mobile Device Management solutions, most of which consist of keeping the business stuff in its own encrypted area separate from the personal stuff. These solutions are especially in BYOD (bring your own device) situations which are increasingly the norm as users either want to carry a single device or prefer their device to whatever the organization provides (typically Blackberry). RIM's MDM solution, and others have the ability to manage iOS, Android, Blackberry OS and other mobile environments. You get features like remote wipe, jailbreak detection etc. At work, we are migrating away from Blackberry at work to iOS (at least at first) and will likely include Android devices, as well as BYOD. It will mean a significant savings in support costs in the long run. If I can remember the name of the MDM solution we selected, I will post it here. Also, even if you don't like (or don't choose) Good's MDM solution, their website has a lot of good background information and white papers.

  41. Firewall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Install a script on the phone to configures the iptables firewall on the phone to block outgoing data except from openvpn (which you install on the phone and have autostart on boot). Block every incomming data except ESTABLISHED,RELATED.
    Then allow browser and any other apps you want to have access to the internet through the vpn. You might want to allow the browser access to the internet directly when the vpn is down (for example to log into hotspot), but have the vpn startup script disable this!

    For encryption you can use the dm-crypt facility available in the linux kernel (this will require you to build your own kernel), for non state secrets I think this is enough.

    When you lock for more than say 5 minutes the phone the data partition should be unmounted. You may want to use a phone with a keyboard as this makes entering long passwords simpler.

    Remove the market (duh!)

  42. MDM by HideyoshiJP · · Score: 1

    You'll definitely want to investigate an MDM solution to help manage this deployment from a device/user management, security and incident response perspective. Having said that, I know Samsung (Samsung SAFE), Motorola, 3LM (middleware) and HTC (HTC Pro - not the same as HTC * Pro devices) all have proprietary MDM frameworks added onto Android in specific phones. These will let you control things like encryption a bit better than Android out of the box. I can't answer to encrypted text messages or phone calls though. Without coming off as a shill, I'd recommend investigating solutions from Good Technologies, AirWatch, and MaaS360. Those products meet different needs, but they all do what they do very well.

  43. ProtectedSMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its not a full solution, but in terms of texting - check out ProtectedSMS by these people: http://www.protectedmobility.com/ Its been FIPS 140-2 certified, which assumes you trust the certification agency, but its a good start.

  44. Android + BlackBerry Universal Device Service? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Your use case and focus on security really suggests that BlackBerry would be the best bet, but if you are focused on finding a way to securely deploy Android devices, but still maintain some security, take a look at the BlackBerry Universal Device Service product as an MDM solution:

    Feature Checklist: http://ca.blackberry.com/content/dam/blackBerry/pdf/brochure/northAmerica/english/BlackBerryMobileFusion,UniversalDeviceServiceFeatureChecklist-1.pdf

    Details: http://us.blackberry.com/business/software/mobilefusion/

    Docs: http://docs.blackberry.com/en/admin/subcategories/?userType=2&category=Universal+Device+Service

    BlackBerry Mobile Fusion Client for Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rim.mobilefusion.client&hl=en

    You can deploy policies to enforce media card encryption, not sure about the call/SMS logs or encrypting the rest of the file system. That's probably something that would have to be baked into the OS - if you have to do it via a mod or rooting the device, you potentially open yourself up to more vulnerabilities.

    The UDS product can detect if a device is jailbroken or rooted, and you can set rules to lock out access to internal resources. You can also do remote device lock/wipe, so that gets you halfway there.

  45. Take a look in my voice encryption system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dear Anonymous.
    I developed my next version of an android client server VOIP system and next week I will deploy it. This system only works if the Client Owns the server.

    The traffic will not pass in our servers and we cant be able to get even a byte from our clients traffic. The client traffic will be between his devices and his own server.
    Once deployed our server, that is a java program, you will be able to install it in your own server and we will not have access to it.
    You will be able to rent or buy the server and the way your client will reach your server is very simple, you can have a fixed IP ( if buy ) or you will be able to access it using a dns service like no-ip.org ( if you rents or buy ).

    All system uses UDP and pre defined ports, in this way you will be able to setup a firewall to open only these ports for udp access.

    A good firewall for your client is the droidwall.

    Please contact me if you want, and next week I will deploy this system for your evaluation.

    Technical descryption.
    Up to 20 users in conference ( half duplex ).
    Point to point full duplex voice conversation.
    Works in EDGE ( better with half duplex ).
    Symmetric key encryption AES-128 CBC
    Key exchange: ECDH 256 bits
    Authentication: Voice authentication and HMAC in server, the HMAC keys will be generated by you.
    No backdoor in contract.
    We can develop customized versions and can negotiate a possible source code deployment of our system.

    Name: Cesar Bremer Pinheiro
    email: cesar.bremer[at]secvoice[point]com[point]br

    My site is not up to date with this new system, only next week ( secvoice.com.br ).

    Next week I will deploy the android client for evaluation, the system is finished and the english site is being built.

  46. Enterprise Security MDM App for Large Enterprise.. by MrMattx3 · · Score: 1

    SAP recently bought Sybase, which made the Afaria platform. This will actually let you set policies across phone types (BB, Android, and iOS) such as device encryption, application restriction, remote wipe, etc. Cross-platform solutions like this are attempting to enable the "Bring Your Own Device" methodology to the workplace. Many of the posts above are very true, though, especially when it comes to Android flavors. It's been noted that the Samsung phones seem to have the most robust encryption, etc. Now the rub. This tends to be a very expensive solution, and therefore limited to larger Enterprises, so tread lightly and research it (as you should do with any MDM app) before jumping in. Linkage: http://www.sap.com/solutions/technology/enterprise-mobility/management-afaria.epx Not sure if this helps, but something to look at.

  47. Don't Root it by CapitalOrange · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Virtually all the malware (and there is some drive by stuff happening) attacks people with rooted phones, so installing even a secure "ROM" is probably the worst thing you can do for security. By looking for software that has gone through the common criteria (assuming that still exists or another similar certification process) you will have some reassurances that it was designed in a secure manner. I would also look for something using other government standards, like FIPS 140-2.

  48. Motorola Pro+ by nickjennings · · Score: 1

    The Motorola (Droid) Pro+ has a number of enterprise level additions to it, focusing on security in a business environment. Including encryption, remote wiping, and "dead zones" to disable features like the camera, etc. in certain areas. And it's got a querty keypad (candbar design, not a slider) Check it out!

  49. Impossible by koan · · Score: 2

    Without full disclosure on the OS, the source, and hardware you can't guarantee its secure.

    I am guessing here, but it seems to me cell phones are designed from the ground up to be insecure.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  50. Apple is no more secure by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 1

    Buying into the "Walled garden == Security" philosophy doesn't cut it because you have no way to VERIFY things haven't been tampered with. You just "believe" they haven't been. Unless you jail break/root you can't be sure because you have no access. That makes it just as un-trustworthy as a trac-fone you found in the gutter. You might as well just use cyanogen, root it, get an sha1sum of everything on the device and have a way to track changes. Feeding Apple all your $$ while drinking all their "walled garden koolaid" is just going to get the industry another monopoly

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    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
  51. Enterproid Divide MDM by charnov · · Score: 1

    Enterproid http://www.divide.com/ mobile device management is a service that costs $60/device/year that creates a secured remotely wipe-able sandbox on Android. They also submitted their app to the Apple store so it should be appearing soon for iPhone's.

    FYI, they are working with Fixmo to be Common Access Card compliant for NSA standards...

    --
    [RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
  52. Android with OEM ICS ROM and device encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had the same task not long ago. Android is the right choice. Even though Androids from AT&T have cruft and bloatware to the point that the phone is almost unusable without flashing and rooting. Verizon stock ROMs suck less than AT&T but not by much. A stock ICS ROM with a valid MD5 sig from either google or the OEM is acceptable in my opinion.

    After research and testing, this is the solution I proposed.

    Unlocked International Galaxy S2 GT-i9100 Handsets.
    http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-GT-I9100G-Unlocked-Touchscreen/dp/B0053HSZQG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338497771&sr=8-1

    Use Samsung's Kies Utility to update the stock gingerbread 2.3.5 ROM to Ice Cream Sandwich (ICS) 4.0.3 - http://www.samsung.com/us/kies/ There are many 3rd party ICS ROMs to choose from, but how do you know you can trust any of them? Unless you check all the code yourself then compile it, you just can't be 100% sure. Especially in a corporate IT environment, when your reputation and/or job might be on the line. I could not be comfortable recommending any after market ROM unless it came directly from google, or Samsung.

    Use Google to create, manage and enforce security policies (for free) - http://www.google.com/apps/mydevices - (we use google apps for our email, so this is a really good fit for us. Google contacts and email sync very fast, and reliably) - With this service you can enforce device encryption and strong user passwords plus other useful admin features.

    Secure messaging is easy, use kik. - http://kik.com/ It's free to use, and has the ability to encrypt messages. It's cross platform, so you can use it on the Androids you will deploy, plus iOS devices, Nokia, Windows Phones, and even some Blackberrys.

    I hope that this information helps you, message me directly if you have any questions. @DishManDan

    1. Re:Android with OEM ICS ROM and device encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After a few weeks, it became apparent that power users would benefit from this OEM extended battery. - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005FYHRY8/ref=wms_ohs_product - It didn't add much more to the weight or the size, but I always seem to have enough battery now. When I come home at night, I usually have anywhere from 20-60% charge remaining (depending on the usage that day.)

      I was lucky to make it home with my old iPhone 4 before the juice ran out. My Blackberry Bold 9700 and Torch 9800 have excellent battery life, unfortunately they are made by RIM, and suck big donkey balls. I wouldn't recommend RIM to anyone, not even a Canadian ... who worked for RIM.

  53. Reflections on Trusting Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey,

    I see some hesitation about how to get the job done; first things first:
    Simply begin by reading the (very brief) paper "Reflections on Trusting Trust",
    written by no less one of the two original authors of the Unix environment.

    Enlightenment will just come, trust me!

    After that, you'll know what security is about. And that's THE ONLY THING security is about.

  54. Security is people more than systems. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe get the company to treat its people well enough so that they are loyal to your company, and thus will cooperate with your security aspirations? Then trust but verify: occasionally probe the phones to verify what's installed.

    Nah. Makes too much sense.

  55. SEAndroid + Gibberbot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Come on, where are the geeks in here!!

    NSA's SE Linux has been ported to SE Android, offering all of the compartmentalization and strong Type Enforcement under development for the last half decade or more. Add to that Gibberbot which offers Off the Record Messaging (OTR) with an optional TOR client and you're in pretty good shape. Also Whisper offers call encryption. Anyone who suggest Skype needs to stop talking. The Chinese publicly announced that they cracked Skype's voice encryption capability a very long time ago.

    Start with Gibberbot OTR and Whisper today, and start looking at rolling your own Android 4.x with SEAndroid.

  56. OK Labs has it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ask OK labs. Theyve been doing mobile virtualization and security for years. Their main kernel is in around a billion phones. They have partnerships with Sirrix and Fixme, along with their SecureIT platform. They should at least be able to give you a good recommend.

    INTEGRITY Global Security lists a mobile solution on their website. They use the top notch INTEGRITY and INTRGRITY-178B RTOSes in their solutions. Maybe ask them too.

    Nick P
    schneier.com blog

  57. Android can be locked down. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work for HP, and we have over 150,000 android devices...they ALL are encrypted and secured against installing non approved apps. All it takes is a little knowledge and some money, how much of either is debatable.

  58. LUKS, SELinux for android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I really hope the submitter reads this, I actually know how to set this up (I have done it myself).

    First off, ICS 4.0 has native encryption, you can recompile the kernel for Gingerbread to support encryption. (Using the LUKS project which uses linux dmcrypt).

    http://www.appbrain.com/app/luks-manager/com.nemesis2.luksmanager

    This is under the guardian project for android: https://guardianproject.info

    Also, there is SELinux for android hosted here: http://selinuxproject.org/page/SEAndroid

    If you are interested in more, post a reply with your email (or other communication medium). (I suppose I'm just paranoid myself, but I actually know a fair bit about cell phone security).

  59. Android Encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One thing I don't understand about Android is why in ICS I can choose to encrypt the entire device -- great, woo hoo -- but there doesn't seem to be a way to encrypt the SD card (other than 3rd party which is pointless). Anyone with any insight on why this is the case?

  60. Only OSS can be secure by Weezul · · Score: 1

    There isn't much real security provided by closed source encryption products. If they've no intentional backdoors, you still face the company concealing their mistakes to save face, which costs you security.

    --
    The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
  61. topsec by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.rohde-schwarz.us/en/products/secure_communications/voice_and_data_encryption/TopSec_Mobile.html

    This device uses your phone as a modem for real-time voice. It doesn't matter what you do to secure the phone. If you can own the baseband you can own the phone. You can own the baseband. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr2u1lrqDsI

  62. Re:Android isn't the platform for this ( take a lo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take a look at secvoice, these guys from Brazil have a strong android system for voice encryption. The site is outdated, but they answer email requests an have a demonstration version.

  63. Secvoice has an android system for voice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These guys from Brazil have a strong voice encryption system for android, the site is outdated, but they answer emails and have a demonstration version.

  64. Device Policy for Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Requires Google Apps though:
    http://support.google.com/mobile/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=190930&topic=2365092&ctx=topic

  65. The slashdot response... by WombleGoneBad · · Score: 1

    If you stop someone in the street and ask 'How do i get to the post office', would you be happy the following answers?

    1) "Nah you dont want to go to the post office, its UPS you want. To get to UPS you should go..."
    2) "Its 11am? what sort of idiot goes to the post office at 11am? the queues will be terrible, you should just go home."
    3) "There are many ways to go the postoffice, i cant tell you which if you dont give me the exact critiera by which you can judge the best route. Is it fastest? shortest? most scenic? safest? does it need to be wheelchair friendly?"
    4) "You should just use email! you fool!"

    No? then dont ask slashdot...

  66. Blackberry??? by d00f · · Score: 1

    Reading posts you can generally tell what product each poster owns. Point for point the Blackberries match up with the requirements. Despite personal biases they have the goods and plenty of market experience doing so.

    Put another way you're asking for a bread slicer. Instead of buying the industry standard machine that slices bread you have all sorts of proposals for trying to make ninja swords do the job instead. Hey, the sword will be a lot more flashy. At the end of the day security and business focus the only real bread slicer available is the blackberry. This has been their focus from day one. Not entertainment, not the latest greatest games, plain simple secure business apps. Ask the majority of law firms, accounting firms, security firms, police forces, military and government users. Alas, they are not using android or i-ninja-swords to slice the bread. Plain simple non-nonsense BES and Blackberries.

    1. Re:Blackberry??? by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

      Not the QNX version... too new... too many hacks... not enough testing etc...

    2. Re:Blackberry??? by El+Rey · · Score: 1

      If it's so great, why is the NSA porting their SELinux stuff to Android?

      http://www.xda-developers.com/android/security-enhanced-android-released-by-nsa/

  67. I thought 'Whisper Systems' when I saw this post by Burz · · Score: 1

    http://www.whispersys.com/

    This may or may not be what you're looking for... not all of their offerings appear to be open source.

  68. Screwey thinking altogether by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

    Both you and the poster above are kinda screwey in terms of thinking.

    First of all... while implementing security code in VHDL or Verilog is possible and has been done, the CPU is just not a big risk in this case. You can use a CPU from a company you're sure is fishy and so long as the software above it is written properly, it should make no difference. It's not really even a matter of cost. Encryption is a software feature... security in general is software oriented. In a system such as Android where the processor itself doesn't even run the executable code but instead runs code JITed for the processor, it's even less relevant. I can write 10 pages on this to prove my point, but it's a waste of time.

    On the other hand, there's nothing that says that a second microcontroller couldn't be hidden in the phone which runs a second network session in the background. Still, there is too much dependence on software and things like keys and such that would make it impossible for this to be an issue if the software is written properly.

    It would just be stupid to waste time developing a malicious CPU if you can just install what you want on the phone itself as software.

  69. umm... BB is not really tested by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

    The new BB based on QNX is not tested for security yet. Yes... they did internal testing and all that and QNX has a history for being secure for the most part, but with several million new lines of code to compose the full rewrite of black berry's software, there's no possible way they could have tested that phone for any reasonable level of security in that time.

    Also please keep in mind that QNX develops their own TCP/IP stack which I personally have used for about 20 years. And after having access to the OS source (and having worked closely with QNX on software projects for years) I don't feel confident that their stack is as secure as they say it is. Remember that QNX is one of the hardest operating systems on the planet to perform system level debugging on. This makes it very hard to properly audit the stack. It is however a user-mode stack which means there's less chances of kernel level "root kits".

    Also, the phone is based on Java which is not very hard to hack... a simple "friendly" app can easily replace the JAVA class loader and pretty much run key loggers and such without a problem.

    The only thing which appears to make BB secure is their advertising. They tell us all how secure they are and we feel secure with them. Without a proper code audit, I wouldn't ever consider them secure.

  70. Pre-QNX maybe by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

    Pre-QNX BB was pretty secure... but with the whole rewrite, there is absolutely no possible way a device with that much code changed and that little use so far can be secure. I justify it above.

    1. Re:Pre-QNX maybe by scream+at+the+sky · · Score: 1

      So, purchase a current device and hold off on the QNX upgrade path?

      The QNX devices don't even launch for several months, so talking about them now is nothing more than pure speculation, which in my not so humble opinion, is fucking pointless.

      --
      I wish I was a neutron bomb, for once I could go off...
  71. VMware's Virtual Handset for Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Run a locked down, virtualized handset image on whatever phone you select. You can homebrew this image based on virtually any Cyanogenmod ROM with whatever VPN client, remote wipe, mail clients, security policies,etc that you need. Elegant, beautiful segregation of the personal vs private phone issues that invariably arise with enterprise phones - and no attendant warranty issues rooting and ROMing the hardware.

    Here's a demo of it in action:

    http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/15/vmware-android-handset-virtualization-hands-on/

  72. What's better is... by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

    He might end up with Blackberry based on QNX which is not the secure BlackBerry which the NSA and those guys cleared for Bama.

    Blackberry on QNX is a thoroughly untested system based on a nearly full rewrite of the operating system which we all know suffered from severe rush to market syndrome. Meaning that there is no possible way a product which is almost certainly a million lines of code or more has been thoroughly tested for security. I mention in previous comments that QNX runs an in-house TCP/IP stack which almost certainly is exploitable. It runs in a separate process from the kernel, but it's still not the IP stacks used by millions and tested by every security lab on earth. The way you know for sure that it's got holes in it is that no one has reported holes on it. What this means is, no one has put it to the test yet. Or we could be expected to simply believe that QNX wrote every line of code perfect and they never had a bug... ever.

    I've worked with QNX (with them directly on project with many many developers on their side as well as mine) and learned that QNX, just like other companies is not perfect. The only reason why they're secure is that we don't know what the holes are yet.

    Let's not forget the Java platform which really does make it wonderfully hackable. Java provides so many possible ways to install rootkits and trojans that unless they found a way to run each app in a separate process, it's hopeless.

    So... if people want to steer the reader well... they should recommend the old Blackberry stuff... it'll be years before we can consider this to be secure.

  73. System level and Security developer's perspective by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

    I am a system level developer who has implemented encryption technologies used in top-secret environments. Also I have worked on mobile device development at a system level for many years. I can't detail my credentials, but for as much as anyone else on Slashdot can be considered reliable, ... well you take it from there.

    1) So far as I know, the only "smart phone" OS which has been "properly audited" was the specific versions of BlackBerry OS which is used by Obama. This does not include all versions of Blackberry OS... only the versions which have been specifically audited and approved for use on his phone. This does not mean that the OS is secure, the NSA audit on the code was performed too quickly for my tastes. It just means that the majority of "obvious holes" are not present. This completely rules out the newer QNX based OS for Blackberry since there is absolutely no possible way that much code could be properly audited in the time which it has been available. On top of that code audits are only a small part of what you need to do to secure a few million lines of code which is heavily communication oriented. Of course, running a simply security auditor on the OS helps as well, but I wouldn't bank on that either. An OS needs years of testing at a single revision before it can be truly solid.

    2) Android may or may not be secure. It's extremely unlikely. If however you want Android and can't live without it, make sure to use only OS images which are hash check verified (MD5, SHA...) from Google directly. If the phone can't run the stock OS, DON'T USE IT! The reason for this is that the OEMs often update and modify code before putting it on the phones. They are feature oriented, not security oriented. Google Nexus would be a decent choice for this.

    3) Don't even consider Windows, Symbian or iOS based phones. iOS is the safest of those three, but lacks pretty much all the features you're interested in. So far as I know, Apple doesn't even care about a "trusted platform" as the cost of maintaining a trusted platform is WAY TOO HIGH and would never yield the profits Apple demands from products. Windows and Symbian just aren't about trusted in the first place and the serious short comings in the Symbian "Development process" make it far too susceptible to being able to be hacked. Without decent development tools and kernel level debugging (which Symbian simply lacks for the most part) it's not possible to harden an OS. Also since Symbian never made use of things like "Test driven development", any change in one place could wreck 100 things elsewhere ... and often did.

    4) Never EVER allow users to install apps... ESPECIALLY ON A JAVA PHONE meaning Blackberry or Android. This is because Java is insanely easy to hack. Yes, I know Oracle and Sun say otherwise... but I recall Yugo also calling their cars safe. Voluntarily installing an app which replaces the class loader on the system is enough to hack the entire thing. There are hundreds of other ways to hack Java which is obvious to me an others that can be exploited with a simple malicious chunk of code in an app. Also, since Java based platforms don't generally allow sandboxing, the apps all kind of have access to override system resources and interfere with each other.

    While I personally despise Blackberry having tried it a few times and felt like I was using junk, if you must have these features, you should use their hardened and audited system.

  74. Some permission controls for CM7 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://github.com/Fuzion24/Permission-Control

  75. useless comments.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes use cyanogen mode, encrypt it & your SD card. I to would like to see pentest results from some of these communication-encryption apps

  76. Good, secure, and cheap. by sootman · · Score: 1

    Pick two.

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  77. Re:System level and Security developer's perspecti by El+Rey · · Score: 1
  78. A sidebar re common criteria by davecb · · Score: 1

    The way the "common criteria" are defined, you need to be an accountant or a logician to figure out just what feature set they claim a high security on. I usually wasl "would it meet B2?" If they can't answer, it won't (;-))

    --dave (and yes, on good days I am a logician) c-b
    B2, from the Orange Book, is an old military standard, approximately what SELinux meets. C means crappy, and there were a very few people who got an A

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