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Using QR Codes To Save Lives
itwbennett writes "Paramedics in Marin County, California, may soon be putting QR codes to lifesaving use. According to an IDG News Service report, 'Lifesquare, a Silicon Valley start-up, has partnered with two emergency response agencies in Marin County to run a year-long pilot program. Lifesquare wants residents to input personal information about their medications into its website, then place corresponding QR code stickers where emergency responders can scan them with an iPhone.' The first hurdle: Getting people to put the sensitive information online. 'The way that we look at is that people already put their information into their driver's license, that's owned by the government, people put their information into credit card company's and that's owned by private corporations,' said Ryan Chamberlain, director of public outreach at Lifesquare."
instead of printing a QR code there?
I'm guessing at least a few christians will rant about this being "the mark of the beast" and a few tinfoil-hat types ranting about how this is the governments way of finding out things about you which they already knew...
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
It was only a matter of time until Hollywood swapped barcodes on the necks of prisoners in sci-fi movies for QR codes... I'll totally get one.
Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
People do not put their private information online by choice. Not even through the driving license or credit card. It would be better to microfiche the data and put that on the sticker. There have to be some safeguards. Most people do not trust the internet with any more than gossip and they are not likely to change in that opinion.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
instead of printing a QR code there?
You get better info density with QR. A QR can hold up to 4K.
Sigs. We don't need no steenking sigs.
Encrypt the data and add the key to the QR code.
The big problem is that no matter how useful such services may be, there have not been enough (or strong enough) guarantees of privacy. Microsoft had this same idea, or close enough. They didn't have QR codes but otherwise the idea was the same. And it was a MAJOR failure. Nobody signed up.
>
Unless there are very solid and enforceable privacy guarantees, people will keep NOT signing up.
Or put in the sticker a password to decrypt the information that would be stored encripted in a database with a password protected too.
The paramedic could have his own QR code (in his "paramedic identification card", or whatever). Then:
1 - Paramedic connects to database.
2 - Paramedic takes a picture of your card to access.
3 - Paramedic takes a picture of the patients QR code to decrypt and download the data.
4 - Patient's password is automatically changed.
5 - System re-encrypts the patient's data with the new password.
6 - System sends the patient home healthy, data safe and with his new QR card password.
TMI?
That is basically what has been done for decades. You fill out a form with your medical info, slip it into a little plastic vile, and attach it to the underside of a rack in your refrigerator with a rubber band (so it should survive a fire) where the paramedics can easily find it. It's called the "vile of life."
Write your medical condition on bracelet. I guess you can fit more info on a website but still.
Do they not have them everywhere?
http://www.medicalert.org/shop/shopHome.htm
4k should be enough to contain most information a paramedic might need (alergies, medication), esp. if that info is app generated (shortcodes, compression). There is absolutly no need to upload al this to an external party to have it downloaded again in an emergency, in effect adding a couple points of failure.
Just put the info in to QR.
Way to make something needlessly difficult. If you've got some complicated medical issues, write them on a piece of paper and laminate it. Keep the paper in your pocket. Keep another copy in your wallet. If you're really paranoid, keep a third copy in a waterproof pouch on a necklace under your shirt. That will work anywhere.
I forgot to mention that you normally put a sticker on the outside of the refrigerator so the paramedics know the vile of life is inside. So, you don't write your info on the sticker itself, where there would be limited space and the possibility of fire damage, but it's a similar idea -- the info is stored on location instead of on a website that you can't access without a smart phone and a cell phone signal.
It's just a QR code, which is little more than an advanced barcode. I don't see why we feel the need to write stories every time one gets used. It's like reading about paint drying.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
What about when you have a medical emergency outside your home?
> A QR can hold up to 4K.
So why put the data in an online database at all? Compress it and print it directly on the QR. How many bits do you need to cover most prescribed meds? Plus a few more for dosage. It can be done without giving away your identity. Just like those life alert bracelets but with more info. You'd still need a server to decode it, but it will be anonymous.
With a QR code you don't need to change the sticker every time your medical information changes.
In this case the QR code points to information on a website, which can in turn hold an indefinite amount of information.
How's the weather in Cordele these days? You're just off Blackshear Rd, aren't you?
I don't remember that being addressed (I only happen to know about the vile of life because I distributed them for my Eagle project when I was in Boy Scouts decades ago), but you could presumably carry the info in your wallet/purse (which you might not keep on your body when you are in your home, and thus might be burned in a fire).
Yuk, that sounds vial.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I have no idea what you are talking about. Did you reply to the wrong post?
How will this be any good when you need paramedic assistance outside your own house?
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Sorry about the botched spelling. It's 4am here and my brain is tired.
What is this 'with an iPhone' junk again. How about with a smartphone/portable computer etc. Why must everything be Apple, is it just so the sheep understand stuff to or what. Just give them some crayons and let them sit in the corner if it is to complicated for them to parse the word smartphone to include their own little Jobsian idol.
I'm betting at least one slashdotter will start posting pre-emptive strawman arguments too.
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
I work in the healthcare field, and I can assure you that at least 95% of people don't even bother to keep an updated written list of their medications in their purse or wallet. The tiny minority of people who would even CARE to input their information and keep a QR code sticker handy are the same people who know their medications/doses, so do not even need this service. The only way this could possibly work is if each person used only one pharmacy ever, AND if the pharmacy was allowed to provide this information to anybody with the software to scan the QR code (a very dicey proposition, given that HIPAA outlaws access to "protected health information"), AND if everyone was willing to carry something with this QR code on them at all times. I can tell you right now, I wouldn't carry anything extra, so unless the QR code is added to my drivers license I won't have one with me.
Your emergency medical information does not change much really, we're not talking about your journal. Epilepsy, diabetes, allergies, heart condition, hemophilia and conditions like that are what an emergency paramedic needs to know, the rest not so much.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
You want people to give you confidential information to perform an encoding they could just as easily do on their own? The confidentiality of your proprietary software does not trump the confidentiality of medical data.
Of course it has. This is just a company going for a cash grab. I'm surprised they aren't using a proprietary 2D barcode format, but that would mean hiring 3x as many developers.
This thing is such a bad idea it shouldn't even have to be enumerated.
1) EMT doesn't have the app.
2) Person is in a reception dead zone. (Soon to literally be a dead zone.)
3) Disaster scenario: What happens to mobile phone reception?
4) Paramedics have time to surfe the web while trying to save lives?
5) LifeSquare's web site is down. Whoops, guess I'll die of a reaction to penicillin then.
Sure, there are privacy issues, but that seems to be the least of the faults with the system. Just write the dam thing in English on the bracelet and all you need to do is be able to read English. Low-tech solution is the right one.
Why an iPhone and not any smartphone or any other similar device?
What can an iPhone do any other smart phone cannot?
I think this is just marketing fluff.
You want to attract interest in a project? Just add an iPhone/iPad/iWhatever!
Then possibly put the data in the cloud and a spray some 3D multimedia and ubiquitous stuff all over!
Ah!
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
Yes, hanging a fridge from your neck can be a little uncomfortable and downright dangerous while swimming, but I agree it is more noticable than a pendant, bracelet, or sticker. The idea in TFA just inserts a middleman between the victim and the paramedic who expects payment for inconvienencing both. I predict that once this slashvesrtiment is off the front page we will hear no more of it (discounting the obligatory dupes).
BTW: The compressors found in fridges have a bad habit of exploding in a fire, often with enough force to blow a hole in the back and rip the door off it's hinges.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Then everybody with a QR-code reader can get your info. Online database access can at least in theory be restricted to authorized people. Anyway, this whole idea is misguided. Machine readable information that isn't also human readable invariably falls out of sync with reality. Machine codes should only ever be used for things that never change or are scanned so frequently that wrong information can't last. The kind of information they want to put in these codes could just be printed in clear text. This is just one company trying to get into a middle-man position where no middle-man is needed.
People's privacy has already been trampled on for years! So nobody is going to say anything when we implement this. Right? Right??
MedicAlert comes with an ID number and phone number that medical staff can call for more information.
(I would expect that they will start offering NFC and implantable chips once it makes sense, but that's only a small improvement over what they already offer.)
What if every US citizen had a 9-digit identifier, which could be used to look up their medical information online?
My first program:
Hell Segmentation fault
Good news: Since you are unlikely to catch fire while swimming, you actually don't need the fridge while swimming unless you want to keep your beer cold.
Don't know about in the US, but in the UK we have allergy bracelets that lists all allergies that person has for such emergency purposes. Adding a QR code to digitize this information wouldn't be too terrible.
How about, and that's and absolutely dumb idea...we just give people little cards in business-card size and they write down their medications there? You put it in your pocket or in your wallet and bam, you don't need in iPhone.
Then everybody with a QR-code reader can get your info. Online database access can at least in theory be restricted to authorized people.
Couldn't the information the QR-code holds be encrypted with a private key?
Thing is, every time some new measure to identify and track anything related to people comes up there are a handful of xtian crazies who scream about it being "the mark of the beast" (I'm not saying ALL of them, I'm saying a handful) and how this is a sign of the end times and all that.
And in a similar vein a few of the wackier anti-government people always come out of the woodworks as well, in their case to rant about how the evil gubmint is just doing this so they can implement some crazy scheme involving various three letter agencies, they get bonus points for references to zionism, ethnic cleansing of white people or extraterrestrial lizard men (one of these days I need to design a few conspiracy theory bingo boards).
I'm not saying these people will post comments on this /. story but I am saying that somewhere a few of them are already foaming at the mouth after hearing about this. And in the past I have seen "mark of the beast" comments on /..
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
Yep, someone figured out a better solution back in 1956 and had the decency not to try to extort money from it.
I'd say that by having it as a reference to an online database it means that the person wearing the QR-tag doesn't need to do anything and only has to give permission for doctors, etc to submit the information directly on their behalf. The information can update without the QR code changing.
signature is pants
What you mean is could it be encrypted with a public key so that only authorized people who have the private key can decrypt it. Yes, but everybody would have to use the same key. There's a snowball's chance in hell that the private key wouldn't leak.
Check out RoadID.com. They have an interactive ID band that pretty much covers what you're talking about. The nice thing is that you can constantly update your information without having to reprint QR stickers. I bought mine for when I run, but honestly have gotten to where I just wear it everyday in the event something happens. Your info can be accessed via telephone or their website by using a serial #/pin engraved on the back of the ID band, so a special phone or application isn't needed. It sounds like the QR code is way more complicated of a solution.
Then everybody with a QR-code reader can get your info.
Uh, you mean everybody who has access to the sticker you're carrying. Kind of like how if they get access to my driver's license, social security card, passport, credit card, bank card, etc. they can get sensitive information from them.
I still don't see how "the few people who have physical access to my possessions" is even close to being in the same league as handing it over to some company to integrate into a database which will be accessed remotely by thousands of people.
This is just one company trying to get into a middle-man position where no middle-man is needed.
Agreed.
I don't remember that being addressed (I only happen to know about the vile of life because I distributed them for my Eagle project when I was in Boy Scouts decades ago), but you could presumably carry the info in your wallet/purse (which you might not keep on your body when you are in your home, and thus might be burned in a fire).
Hint- Paramedics are not trained to look for this "vile" of life, or even a vial of life in your fridge. They have better things to do than rummage around in your disgusting kitchen, it'll be some cop poking through your medicine cabinet trying to determine cause of death who will find it.
The example from the article: "scan a QR code on the patient's bike helmet"
Before:
Write information on paper.
[...]
Read paper.
Now:
Insert information into complex electronic device.
Send information across network of interconnected computers.
Store information on complex electronic device thousands of miles away.
[...]
Take out camera to photograph blocks.
Wait for phone to interpret blocks as unique ID.
Send unique ID across network of interconnected computers.
Wait for complex electronic device thousands of miles away to retrieve information associated with unique ID.
Wait for information to be sent back across network of interconnected computers.
Display information on phone screen.
Well done, capitalism! Yet another unnecessary invention! Because technology could have been used to reduce everyone's work week to 3 days, but instead we must keep our noses needlessly to the grindstone.
In North America, we have the MedicAlert system... bracelet or necklace that you can wear, it has a recognizable logo and on the other side a file number is engraved. Medical professionals need to call in and give the file number in order to get the information.
I prefer it, because it's actually engraved, so less likely to disappear. Correct me if I'm wrong, but engraving a QR code into metal would be a pain in the butt, and even if you could do it accurately enough, a cell phone camera wouldn't be good enough to read it....
Yes but this would be and (open) standard and no one would make any money from it.
You would just go to an official website and get some pdf to print.
It could also have problems with poor generating and reading software implementations.
With the information held online and the QR just a link to the DB, the DB is as up to date as the last update by the patient. The patient link is static and can never change, so a QR is appropriate.
Learn to love Alaska
I am working on a slightly related project as part of my scientific research, so I can relate to the motivation behind Lifesquare, but also share some of the criticism.
* On their website they make it seem like people are motivated to put QR codes everywhere, just in case something bad might happen to them. People usually are not motivated to plan for unlikely, unexpected and bad events in such ways.
* Indeed there is no reason to safe the information on a server, since the essential data is small enough to be printed as human-readable text, or at least be captured in a compressed format inside the QR code (so it can be decoded without a central server).
* The medications that patients take change, and updating the data is difficult (again, patients are not motivated enough, electronic health record systems are usually a mess, and shielded by harsh legal restrictions).
--- Self-promotion starts below ---
For the research project that I am working on we are focusing on different aspects -- although the general idea of 'using QR codes to save lives' is the same. The thing is called "Medicine Safety Code" (http://safety-code.org) and is done as part of a working group of the W3C. Instead of focusing on representing medication intake (which can change rapidly), we focus on representing data that is constant throughout our lifetime: pharmacogenomic variants. Each of us has some variants in key genes that influence whether a certain medication can help or harm us. If we would know about these variants we could make better, more personalized decisions when we are prescribed new medications – in contrast to the current “let’s try the standard therapy first and see what happens” approach that puts adverse reactions to prescribed medications in the top-10 list of reasons for hospitalisation in developed countries.
The time could be right: targeted genetic testing is becoming very cheap (100 Dollars), and technologies such as QR codes can make it easy to integrate the information into workflows of routine medical care.
Even though these pharmacogenomic data are quite large, they can be compressed to fit into the data captured by the QR code – making it possible to interpret a Medicine Safety Code without a centralized database. Still, the server can come in handy for interpreting Medicine Safety Codes without installing dedicated software first.
Regarding privacy: Indeed, everyone who has the code knows about my pharmacogenes and drug allergies. However, I feel more comfortable by protecting my medical data like I protect all other content of my wallet, rather than handing over my data to some private company that keeps it in a central server together with the data of thousands of others. At least a high-profile ‘leak’ of all data is made impossible that way.
Regarding uptake: Only a handful of patients are motivated enough to take extra expenses for such things, even though they might benefit. To make this work on a significant, global scale, it needs to be backed by institutions and payers. And this will only happen when one can prove that it saves money and decreases hospitalisations. It is difficult, but I hope that it can be done. If deployed on a wide scale, such Medicine Safety Codes could indeed safe lives AND money.
Jésus Christ loves you and want to save you.
Hé annonces thé lové of god.
instead of printing a QR code there?
You get better info density with QR. A QR can hold up to 4K.
But why even bother with a QR code at all? It seems like using technology for technology's sake. What happens if the first medics on the scene don't have their phone handy to scan the code? Or if the information is stored online, what happens if they can scan it but can't get a network connection? Instant fail.
You get instant readability with plain text. Most people that I know who have the kind of medical issues that this would help with have already got a medicalert bracelet or something similar that gives the necessary information in an easily accessible way. It's recognised by emergency staff, and gives all the information needed instantly. A bracelet is also durable and less likely to be lost or damaged.
Using a printed/online QR code system for this is pointless, and has many dangerous regressions compared with existing systems.
The example from the article: "scan a QR code on the patient's bike helmet"
Oh! That sounds like such a good idea...
foo: "Hey buddy, I need to go to the store. Can I borrow your bike?"
bar: "Sure. Got a helmet?"
foo: "No..."
bar: "No problem, you can borrow mine."
Later in the hospital...
baz M.D.: "Says here he's A rhesus positive with no known allergies..."
What could go wrong?
Does anyone really think that this vast information vault would not be IMMEDIATELY harvested and mined (anonymously, of course hahahaha) by drug companies for advertising purposes?
Commercials would say 'most prescribed medication for zits on your ass! ORDER NOW!'.
If you are sufficiently messed up medically to have a need for this service, one would hope that you would realize that you need some sort of 'Medic Alert' information on you (my father has a bracelet for his defibrillator and other meds).
If you are to stupid to have said bracelet for for a life threatening allergy or reaction to medicine, then you die due to your stupidity. I see it as a win/win. If you have that LIFE SAVING information on you as you should, you get the proper treatment. If you don't, then you die and society merrily chugs along with one less idiot in its ranks.
In the UK we have medical bracelets, sometimes the information is also important to first aiders (say a severe allergy to cotton bandages?), so locking it all down too much is not a good idea.
The patient link is static and can never change, so a QR is appropriate.
Yes, cause there's no such thing as areas without coverage, network errors, database failures, ...
And in case of large scale emergencies, the cellular network would never fail. NEVER!
I'll take plain text, thank you very much!
alias sudo="echo make it yourself #" ; # https://pipedot.org/~stderr & http://soylentnews.org/~stderr
While it may be unlikely that you will catch fire while swimming, you should always be prepared to catch fire while water-skiing. As proof, the latest ICD-10 codes are ready for just such an event:
V9107XA = "Burn due to water-skis on fire, initial encounter"
I kid you not. http://graphicsweb.wsj.com/documents/MEDICALCODES0911/#term=Water-skis
Additionally, this problem has already been solved for a group of people more likely to truly "need" it, and who do use it. You can find it at http://roadid.com/
Why wouldn't you just get a Road ID that can be used anywhere in the world?
http://www.roadid.com/Common/default.aspx
And the argument that data is more easily changed online is mote. My allergies never change.
Hackers will hack into the system and switch around all the information. This system will kill us all!
You don't have to "only use one pharmacy" ever. You'd have to use a PHR like Open Source IndivoHealth or HealthVault or Dossia.
Personally, I believe it's a great idea that hopefully will one day catch on.
They didn't give up. Microsoft is still trying with HealthVault. It's a Personal Health Record platform so they're hoping others build these types of solutions on top their offering. PHR usage has been growing, with some of the largest companies in the country ( Walmart, ATT, etc. ) using Dossia.
And how, exactly, does Lifesquare make money? TFA does not say. Until that's clear, "privacy concerns" is an understatement.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
The size of that tiny mote is moot anyway.
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
Laser engraver & ceramic paste.
Easy to do and a cell camera phone would be good enough to read...
Emergency personel here in the US of A quite deliberately avoid looking for S.O.S. bracelets and similar. The reason being liability.
If they don't know about something, they can't be sued over it, but once they have established that there is information, they are liable for making the correct call based on that new information.
Everything about the US health system is based around CYA and money.
In other countries, you can be put in jail for not assisting someone in need to the best of your ability. Here, unless you have medical training and up-to-date paid-for certification papers, you're not protected by "good samaritan" laws, and both can and will get sued for helping. People will watch a person drown or bleed to death, knowing how to stop it, becuase the risk is too great that they'll get sued. Because whoever you save is likely going to have huge medical bills, and need to get them paid somehow.
It's insane.
I stopped wearing my S.O.S. bracelet after moving here, and hope to dog I won't ever need emergency aid. Cause they're likely to kill me with their ignorance, but that's okay in their view, as long as they don't risk getting sued.
The kind of information they want to put in these codes could just be printed in clear text. This is just one company trying to get into a middle-man position where no middle-man is needed.
Exactly. Or link it to a drivers license or state ID, there's no reason to have an extra sticker that emergency medical personal are trying to search for. I can just see them running around searching for a sticker.
EMT #1: Check his wallet
EMT #2: Not there
EMT #1: Where's the helmet?
EMT #2: I don't see it on there either
EMT #1: Well screw it, we can't spend all night searching for a sticker!
WE already have state IDs, why not just use those? Even children can get a state ID. Put your ID number in a database and update that with medical information. Done. The irony here is on Lifesquare's website they have the EMT looking at the person's wallet and finding the sticker in the wallet. FAIL.
And how is this going to be profitable? Are you going to charge users for the stickers? Maybe a monthly subscription fee? Good luck with that. Or the hospitals should all pay monthly? A project like this is too big for a tiny startup, this needs to be done on a state wide government scale to be successful at all.
But it looks like Lifesquare is available in Marin County, CA. That's great, funding January 2011 and by June 2012 you have 1 county covered and only 3,140 counties to go.
Whenever I hear about these horrible startups I always wonder how much funding they've received. Unfortunately it doesn't say the amount, but it does say someone gave them venture funding for this really bad startup.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
...people put their information into credit card company's and that's owned by private corporations...
This statement is utter nonsense. My CC does not own information about me to complete a contract between
myself and them for the purpose of accurately billing me (and likewise being billed for the credit services I use).
CAPTCHA=potatoes
Not really, What would probably be a better use, is storing your MRNs (Medial Record Numbers) for all your healthcare provider systems, and perhaps the URL to access their MRN. Scanning the QR code will will then download a CCD (Community Care Document (XML based schema)) straight from the providers. That way they will have the full Medical Record of the patient for viewing.
The key issue is security, to make sure any guy with a smartphone can't get in. You can probably make money providing secure key authentication across the health care partners.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
What you mean is could it be encrypted with a public key so that only authorized people who have the private key can decrypt it. Yes, but everybody would have to use the same key.
No, they wouldn't - a message can be encrypted with the product of a number of keys, and then any of the corresponding keys will be able to decrypt it. But it wouldn't be too helpful.
What's wrong with the good old fashioned method of storing the information with the person, like in a locket that can be opened even if slick with blood, but can't be opened unless the person consents or is unable to give consent due to injuries or loss of consciousness?
What does this system add except reliance on extra equipment, and yet one more thing to look for? It's a solution looking for a problem, and a bad one at that. I'd be very sceptical and look for the money trail on this one.
For those that don't know, medic alert is also in Australia.
http://www.medicalert.org.au/
any of the corresponding keys will be able to decrypt it
How's that supposed to help? Then you have more keys which can leak and every one of them can still decrypt every dogtag just the same.
I present a counterexample, illustrating necessity: my father. Among other problems he has diabetes, a congenital heart condition (aggravated by a later trauma), a deformed left hip, stunted growth in his right leg, skin cancer, an allergy to iodine-based surgical preparations (because of an "inert" additive), a severe allergy to all seafood (the root cause of the iodine issue), and high blood pressure. He's also an organ donor, and has requested DNR.
That's all useful for paramedics to know, and it's a heck of a lot for a bracelet.
I'm surprised they aren't using a proprietary 2D barcode format, but that would mean hiring 3x as many developers...
1) EMT doesn't have the app.
I'm actually starting a project of my own, and looked at many barcode formats recently. QR is the obvious choice, for the main reason that it's already so popular and reliable. The summary implies the QR code is just a website link (and/or a password) to your medical records, which are hosted elsewhere. That means that any old QR code reader would work, so there's practically widespread deployment already.
2) Person is in a reception dead zone. (Soon to literally be a dead zone.)
So nothing changes from now, and the paramedics know nothing, until the ambulance starts moving. If you live in the boondocks with many areas of no reception, get a bracelet and a sticker. My father has his bracelet and carries a folding card in his wallet (on the off chance a paramedic will see it) detailing his problems.
3) Disaster scenario: What happens to mobile phone reception?
Same as above. No new risk, possibly some good. If the lookup doesn't work, paramedics are no worse off than they are right now. This may be a shocking surprise, but paramedics have brains. There are very few conditions that will lead to death if the paramedic doesn't know about them. My father's iodine reaction was discovered thirty minutes into open-heart surgery. They gave him a few more drugs to suppress the reaction, finished the surgery, then noted that they'd need a different preparation for the next round of surgery.
4) Paramedics have time to surfe the web while trying to save lives?
Yes, they sometimes do. My most recent encounter with paramedics was after my wife was hit by a car. Three paramedics arrived. One used a flashlight to direct traffic (since it was late evening), one treated my wife, and one held the ambulance door open. I suspect the doorstop could have taken a few moments to scan a code and checked for allergies.
5) LifeSquare's web site is down. Whoops, guess I'll die of a reaction to penicillin then.
No, you'll have a reaction to penicillin, which the paramedics will notice, and take care of. It's more work for them, and makes the hospital trip more complicated, but it's how things work now.
Sure, there are privacy issues, but that seems to be the least of the faults with the system. Just write the dam thing in English on the bracelet and all you need to do is be able to read English. Low-tech solution is the right one.
What if your bracelet falls off, or gets dirty, or is tarnished, or if it's upside down and the paramedics can't move your arm to read it? You could die of a reaction to penicillin because the bracelet didn't work!
Like any important system, redundancy across different methods is the most reliable.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Actually I remember an old rapture movie (in the 80's) that used UPC bar codes as a main plot device to track people and execute christians. Bar code scanners were new back then and I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the movies are updated with QR codes.
What is not so crazy is our willingness to make it easier to track ourselves.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
I thought medical personal would call MedicAlert with your father's bracelet ID to get all that information.
Are you suggesting that people would have the QR tattooed on a standard location on their body? Otherwise this system is prone to the same failure.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
How's that supposed to help?
Read my next sentence after the one you quoted.
MedicAlert does have all of my father's information. MedicAlert also has the reception and time problems (since it involves a phone call) that the GGP is using as a fearmongering argument against a QR code system, but that's not what he wanted:
Just write the dam thing in English on the bracelet and all you need to do is be able to read English
This system is prone to many failures, some of which are similar to ones the bracelets have. Again, the main point is that redundancy offers reliability.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
This type of thing is typical from people who don't really know what EMS is, and thus think up all sorts of things that are - unwittingly - counterproductive.
I'm an EMT for my town's volunteer agency. I don't know if the story says "paramedics" to mean paramedics, or EMS in general, but there's a difference. Paramedics, or ALS (advanced life support), can do things like intubate and place IVs for anyone serious. EMTs, or B(asic)LS, handle everything, working with paramedics on anything serious. Not really relevant, but it bugs me.
Anyway, if we show up to a house and the person is conscious, they can tell us their medications or give us a list. If they're not, their medication list is not one of our priorities. Neither us nor ALS can do anything much about people taking too much or to little of any medication they might have, unless it's insulin. The point of EMS isn't to treat - it's to stabilize (i.e., do what we can) and get them to a hospital. Anything life-threatening has a treatment with essentially no contraindications (reasons you can't use it), and so medical history isn't helpful. Anything not life-threatening, there's not much that has to be done before the hospital so they hold off unless the person knows their medical history and medications.
Couple that with the expense (smartphones and dataplans, and the constant replacement of the ones that are dropped/bled on/etc), the time waste of screwing around with a phone when you should be working on the patient (and if you're not working on the patient, why aren't you transporting?), and all the rest, mean that this is a stupid idea. It doesn't sound like a stupid idea, but that's just because people don't really know how we work. There's no downtime.
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
isnt this the same thing as those Med-Alert bracelets? I believe ambulances have quick access to that data already.
"Machine readable information that isn't also human readable invariably falls out of sync with reality."
I have seen this happen so many times. Sometimes the information has stayed in sync long enough for people to say I'm wrong, but a couple of years later the inevitable has _always_ happened.
As soon as you have two separate copies of a record (which you have to have, because you _cannot_ rely on these kinds of coverage, networks, databases (as already mentioned) they WILL diverge.
Lovely idea, won't work. It'll work for a while, but in a couple of years, mark my words, it will have failed on a number of occasions. Of course, the naysayers like me will be long gone by then. Sad times.
Yes, cause there's no such thing as areas without coverage, network errors, database failures, ...
Even if you don't need to connect, the equipment and software can still crap out. Such a bad idea.
Everything about the world is based around CYA and money.
FTFY
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
QR codes are the mark of the beast! lol
Is the information available fast enough? The fact that it requires a phone call doesn't seem that too restrictive or time consuming. It seems that the emergency responder is free to continue to stabilize the patient while listening to the medical information being read to him by MedicAlert. Do you know for a fact that a verbal phone call is the only means to access the information and that the hospital doesn't have electronic access to those same records?
I wouldn't call the GGP suggestion of printing all the information on a bracelet as "fear mongering" just impractical. It does seem that you are doing a little fear mongering of your own to promote a QR code based system over the current system.
I think you meant availability which is not equivalent to accuracy. Availability is handled by having more than one operator handling the phones, or having more than one means to access the data by the member stakeholder. Accuracy is maintained by having a single repository that holds this information. Multiple supplier databases can lead to situations where one database has a more recent and accurate medical entry then the competing service.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
You live on the east coast, I see.
You could add a picture of the person in the info as well, that should help prevent a lot of mistakes.
This is the sig that says NI (again)
The earth could explode, so there are no good ideas.
Seriously though, this idea is a good starting point, there is room for improvement however.
This is the sig that says NI (again)
I have a friend who works in construction and can't wear jewelry, so he has a 6" tatoo of his medic alert info (potentially deadly medicine allergy). I don't know about the US, but here in Canada every medic alert bracet I have ever seen has said on it what it's for, so first aiders can know what to do/not do.
Also, per comments about people not helping out of fear of being sued... In Canada every province has "Good Samaritan Laws" which protect you from being sued for helping someone in a lifethreatening situation, except Quebec where it is illegal to NOT help if you can do so without endangering yourself or someone else (and also you can't get sued). Also we're lucky here in that our courts are sane.
The problem with plaintext that I can think of is that then anybody can read it and maybe call in to the company to get the info.
This is a privacy concern.
As I stated earlier, this idea is a good starting point.
This is the sig that says NI (again)
Heh I just laughed at it and simply understood what you meant :)
This is the sig that says NI (again)
As others have already pointed out, the information could just as easily be put right into the QR code itself. I thought the internet was supposed to be about disintermediation. However, it seems that every new announcement I see about some new "innovation" is yet another attempt to trick people into locking themselves into "One Web-Site to Rule Them All" for one thing or another. How does this crap keep making it to the front page of Slashdot? Huffington Post, I can see. They are all about making money. But Slashdot?
If only there was some kind of necklace or bracelet with a corresponding wallet card one could purchase that would alert a first responder that you have a medical condition and/or are taking medication that they need to be aware of.
When we distributed the vial of life for my Eagle project the vials were donated by a local hospital. Admittedly, they probably only cost a few pennies each, but it is hard for me to imagine why the hospital would be involved if they weren't going to tell their paramedics to look for them.
Anyway, my purpose in describing the vial of life program was not to start a debate about whether it is still applicable today. My purpose was to point out that the idea of making medical information readily available to emergency personnel has been around for decades and QR codes or other fancy technology really don't add anything other than an additional potential point of failure (e.g. no smart phone or cell signal available).
Let's get one thing out of the way real quick:
It does seem that you are doing a little fear mongering of your own to promote a QR code based system over the current system.
Absolutely not. That's just sarcasm. I'm in favor of both systems, and RFID chips, and carrying card in wallets, and if somebody could work out a system where a skywriter writes medical information about people in the street, there's a good chance I'm in favor of that, too. Paramedics need warnings of "this will make things worse" as soon as possible, and I'm in favor of supplying that information through whatever mechanism is convenient, fastest, and most accurate at the time it's needed. One paramedic may work better with the QR code system, and one may prefer to have a human to talk to. If both are options, the paramedic can pick.
I wouldn't call the GGP suggestion of printing all the information on a bracelet as "fear mongering" just impractical.
This is the fear mongering I object to:
2) Person is in a reception dead zone. (Soon to literally be a dead zone.)
3) Disaster scenario: What happens to mobile phone reception?
Both of those are current problems with the MedicAlert system (since it requires a phone call, as well). To suggest they're unique to the QR system is ignorant, at best. They also affect (to a lesser degree) a paramedic's access to information the hospital already has. If you're being pulled from a car crash in a tunnel, they're not going to have your information, and that's just too bad.
I think you meant availability which is not equivalent to accuracy.
Very true. I worked with medical data a while back, and the single biggest problem I encountered was missing information. Fortunately, there are efforts underway to remedy this. Healthcare providers and pharmacies are increasingly using protocols like HL7 to share data,and (through data use agreements) it's legal for this project and MedicAlert to share information to ensure they always have accurate information available. Whether they're doing so is another matter, but that's still no reason to reject the idea outright. Conditions that are severe enough to drastically affect paramedics' treatment is unlikely to change often enough to matter, anyway.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Emergency personel here in the US of A quite deliberately avoid looking for S.O.S. bracelets and similar. The reason being liability.
Citation please.
I'm not sure about QR codes in particular, but the Wikipedia page for the Data Matrix 2D barcode shows the code being engraved: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Matrix
I'm not sure what kind of reader you would need, but you might be able to get dark ink hard-anodized into the depressions to create a cameral-readable barcode.
" I prefer it, because it's actually engraved, so less likely to disappear. Correct me if I'm wrong, but engraving a QR code into metal would be a pain in the butt, and even if you could do it accurately enough, a cell phone camera wouldn't be good enough to read it...."
Laser etching will do it with no problem.
Nonsense. The US has a very serious issue with their "let's sue everyone and everything" attitude. Fortunately, most of the world is more civilized: "Humans are fallible. Deal with it."
You know, you don't HAVE to make the call. There are people who can make calls for you.
First off - there's a wonderful technology called "radio" that paramedics have access too, that works as long as you can see the repeater. It's only simplex, but I'm sure before cellphones were ubiquitous, calling in to base asking them to call MedicAlert wouldn't be a huge issue. After all, paramedics didn't run to payphones to place a call.
Also a wonderful way for a paramedic to call in for more help if necessary.
Oh, radio works in disaster scenarios as well. They're independent of the cell network. And heck, there are wonderful people known as "ham radio operators" who have a backup radio network as well. And they have both short and long-range communications (though long range may take longer because of additional relay hops).
esp with articles being half advertisements would it kill them to mention that lifesquare is a .com??
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
BS!
well as a sanity check
1 if the data does not show a similar person they should discard the data as false
2 if you have any "issues" you should have your OWN square/sticker.
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
Emergency personel here in the US of A quite deliberately avoid looking for S.O.S. bracelets and similar. The reason being liability.
Generally speaking, this is utter bullshit. Systematically not looking for or ignoring medical alert bracelets/necklaces would be a huge liability issue for EMS providers.
I had a Medicalert braclet till it was cut off of me - I need to get a new one but haven't gotten around to it. I like the QR code idea, basically because the bracelet doesn't have enough space to contain complete and accurate information. Additionally, the info changes periodically, so using a pointer to an actual data store makes a certain amount of sense.
You want only the most critical info, most likely to be important info on the bracelet in text - e.g. hemophiliac, HIV positive, severe alergies, reactive drugs, transplants, etc.
Privacy be damned, it's your life at stake, and frankly, no one else cares about your allergies. Dying because the medics couldn't find out you were allergic in a timely fashion because they were getting through secuity mechanisms would be really stupid.
You know, you don't HAVE to make the call. There are people who can make calls for you.
And heck, there are wonderful people known as "ham radio operators" who have a backup radio network as well
Privacy? We don't need no steenkin' privacy!
We'll try another round for getting the point across: All these systems have problems, and "there are cases where a particular radio communication system fails" is a common one. Sure, you can work around it by using a different network, and try to shoehorn the existing system in ("Let's shout through the storm drain system to a ham operator who can radio the hospital so they can call MedicAlert and find out if this guy's allergic to anything"), or you can use something else ("I'll take a picture of this code, and when we get cell service en route to the hospital, we'll know more").
Once again, my main point is that having options is a good thing. Just because you can cobble together a system with existing parts that's still functional in contrived circumstances is no reason to dismiss an innovative idea.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Cute. No, actually, it's not a good starting point at all, regardless of whether the Earth goes boom. This idea is crap. It's a needlessly brittle way of providing first responders with important medical information. Simpler, more reliable ways of doing that already exist, including the whole database aspect of it. The new ideas here are using a QR code and a smartphone with proprietary software to access the database. Reliable operation depends heavily on uninterested third parties.
It's almost like a bunch of people that enjoy making money off of smartphone and social networking technology decided to shoehorn that same thinking into emergency services. [sarcasm]How could you lose when you combine two hot, growing markets like smartphones and healthcare? It's a definite win-win.[/sarcasm]
lightsquare/lifesquare? please...
What kind of citation would be satisfactory, given that there's obviously no statistics on this?
Or did you use "citation please" as a substitute for saying "I don't believe that"?
Or did you use "citation please" as a substitute for saying "I don't believe that"?
Close. It is a way of say I don't believe it, but would be willing to if there were a few shreds of evidence to support it.
But without any evidence (and you don't seem to have any), your claim makes no sense whatsoever. If I was on a jury, I would consider failure to check for an SOS bracelet to be gross negligence, and I find it hard to believe many people would see it otherwise.
Generally speaking, this is utter bullshit.
No, that's not generally speaking, that pretty specific.
Systematically not looking for or ignoring medical alert bracelets/necklaces would be a huge liability issue for EMS providers.
Good luck proving it. The EMT/EMR/Paramedic stating "I was so intent on saving the patient's life with utmost urgency that I missed it" or "There are several dozen different talisman systems[*], and I am not familiar with them all" would quite likely be accepted - don't you think?
[*]: And now, one more, just to add to the confusion.
A quick google found dozens of stories about people who have had their bracelets ignored, both by EM personnel and hospital staff.
Of course, that's anecdotal and statistically invalid, which is why I won't bother posting any links - it's not going to satisfy a "citation please".
I know why I don't wear an SOS bracelet any more, but that isn't going to convince you one way or another. But the next time you talk to an EM technician or paramedic in private and confidence, ask if they actively search for multiple types of talismans. Then your next question will likely be "why not?"
Then don't use it. It's better than nothing. It's not like med-alert bracelets are illegal because of QR. Most of the bracelets have the same problems you complain about, and you don't seem to mind it in the bracelets. If you wanted, you could tattoo your medical issues to your forehead, get a bracelet, and have the QR. Just let people pick the bad ideas if they want. In the real world, it's likely yo help more than it hurts, so why do you complain so vehemently?
Learn to love Alaska
What the fuck are you talking about? I AM "emergency personnel", so let's clarify some things:
1. We look for medical bracelets, necklaces, etc. It's part of the training curriculum we all go through, and is quite necessary to know if the drug we're about to give you is going to interact in a bad way. The liability is in the patient having the bracelet and the medic not looking for it, triggering a bad outcome.
2. No kidding they're liable for making a correct call based on known information. We much prefer that to killing people randomly because of something we could have done something about, but were never made aware of.
3. Good Samaritan laws in the US slightly vary by state, but generally all agree on the point that if you act within your abilities and in good faith, you are protected by law. They are quite effective in protecting people from being sued while trying to help someone in need. If you aren't trained in some complicated task then you could theoretically be held liable if you do it, and royally mess it up. However just because you took CPR class 10 years ago is irrelevant, if you start compressing someone's chest in an attempt to save their life, you're protected. This is the reason 911 dispatchers can talk someone through it legally.
I'm not sure where your paranoia or misinformation came from, but it's truly astounding. Wear your bracelet so someone doesn't inadvertently kill you based on mis/disinformation, and go help people in need. You won't get sued for it.
You live on the east coast, I see.
Unfortunately, yes, I do. Where there are more lawyers than health care workers.
'Lifesquare, a Silicon Valley start-up, has partnered with two emergency response agencies in Marin County to run a year-long pilot program. Lifesquare wants residents to input personal information about their medications into its website, then place corresponding QR code stickers where emergency responders can scan them with an iPhone.
There are med-alert bracelets which already perform the exact same function. The information can be accessed without a smartphone (as far as I know handy-talkies do not yet have built-in cameras), are reasonably secure against misuse, and everyone in the medical profession is already familiar with them. Uploading such personal information to a web page is not only stupid, but probably runs afoul of Federal HIPAA laws which mandates who is allowed to see and have access to your personal medical files (and a third party web company isn't one of them), unless YOU sign away your rights and then they can use that information in ANY way they choose.
The article does not mention any kind of security (just that it opens a "secure" link) and they want you to wear the codes plainly visible (the article mention a bike helmet) where ANYONE can scan them. Sorry, I'll give it a pass.
EMT here. They don't actually care about bracelets at all. Paramedics generally don't administer medication, so they don't care about allergies. Their goal is just to stabilize the patient until they can get to a hospital. That's a matter of minutes most places.
Someone with a heart condition may change medications every 6 months. 6 months on one, observation, then try something else if the first wasn't as effective. Asthma has a few common medications, and knowing whether someone is on daily preventative or not. So yeah, conditions may not change much, but the treatment of them is not static.
Learn to love Alaska
Give them an inch and they will take a mile. Say yes to this and next it will be implanted microchips with more than just medical data.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
Emergency personel here in the US of A quite deliberately avoid looking for S.O.S. bracelets and similar."
Bullshit. One of the first things we're taught in EMT class is to look for them.
UNIX: 'cuz you can tattoo it on your knuckles!