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What Struck Earth in 775?

ananyo writes "Just over 1,200 years ago, the planet was hit by an extremely intense burst of high-energy radiation of unknown cause, scientists studying tree-ring data have found. The radiation burst, which seems to have hit between 774 and 775, was detected by looking at the amounts of the radioactive isotope carbon-14 in tree rings that formed during the 775 growing season in the Northern Hemisphere. The increase in 14C levels is so clear that the scientists conclude that the atmospheric level of 14C must have jumped by 1.2% over the course of no longer than a year, about 20 times more than the normal rate of variation (abstract). Yet, as the only known events that can produce a 14C spike are supernova explosions or giant solar flares, and neither event was observed at the time, astronomers have a cosmic mystery on their hands."

46 of 344 comments (clear)

  1. Quite Obvious, Even to Me by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Funny

    You need only look at the years leading up to 775 to unravel this mystery. In 773 at the start of the Islamic Golden Age, the number zero was introduced to Baghdad which would, in 775, surpass China's capital of Chang'an as Earth's largest city. Now, we know from the second law of thermodynamics that 'the entropy of an isolated system that is in equilibrium is constant.' Now with all those people suddenly using zero in tons of transactions and writings, Earth experienced a huge decrease in entropy. I'm sure if you analyze the existing works from the time, you'll find that pervasive use of the hot new number zero increased the frequency of numbers at the time by 1.2%. That means that somewhere there had to be an increase in entropy to maintain the balance described by the second law of thermodynamics. Of course, anyone with a mail-order internet degree can tell you the obvious natural source of entropy at the time would be the decay of nitrogen-14. What? Falsifiability? Just watch, the floods in Thailand have lead to a decrease in production of ones and zeros hard drives which means we'll finally get a break from this 'global warming' or (let's just call it for what it really is) the 'entropic energy extravaganza!'

    Also, for good measure: Nazis.

    --
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    1. Re:Quite Obvious, Even to Me by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Funny

      Flooding in Thailand? That's just the rumblings of Cthulhu in his city of Rl'yeh.

      Also, as far as what hit Earth in 775, that was plainly a time-travelling Chuck Norris.

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    2. Re:Quite Obvious, Even to Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      With that much carbon, it must have been a wet one.

    3. Re:Quite Obvious, Even to Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, the radiation is a resultant of the explosion of the second Death Star; it happened a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away so it took that long to get here.

    4. Re:Quite Obvious, Even to Me by Sparticus789 · · Score: 5, Funny

      All I see is the universal Linux file permission.

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      sudo make me a sandwich
    5. Re:Quite Obvious, Even to Me by paiute · · Score: 5, Funny

      Couldn't've been, Hitler is still in my textbooks.

      Duh. We have to go back and rescue him every time one of you noobs gets your time travel license.

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    6. Re:Quite Obvious, Even to Me by Talderas · · Score: 4, Funny

      All that means is that whomever time traveled failed to kill Hitler.

      Of course, the world has a way of self correcting so even if we had killed Hitler we'd just be dealing with someone else.

      No... to thoroughly get rid of Hitler was must first eliminate the conditions which lead to the Nazi rise in power. To do that it would be desirable to avoid the punitive nature of the Treaty of Versailles. Though to avoid that we really need to have avoided the first World War. Obviously, the best way to avoid that is too prevent Duke Ferdinand from being assassinated....

      Frankly, I don't want to continue stepping backwards but suffice it to say, I think the best course of action is to go back far enough to find the first homo sapiens and brutally murder them all. That should prevent Hitler from creating the Holocaust.

      --
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    7. Re:Quite Obvious, Even to Me by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 4, Funny

      the obligatory xkcd for this was just published last friday: http://xkcd.com/1063/

      --
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  2. More articles like this one by MyLongNickName · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't have a comment other than to say that I enjoy articles like this one. Please bring more like it and i will hit refresh 20 times to get yor page hit count up :)

    --
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    1. Re:More articles like this one by belthize · · Score: 4, Funny

      I don't know, I've read the article and it's still not clear to me whether an iPhone or Android is better, who to vote for, whether I should be mad at banks and who to vote for.

      On a more serious note, I wholeheartedly agree.

    2. Re:More articles like this one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I don't know, I've read the article and it's still not clear to me whether an iPhone or Android is better, who to vote for, whether I should be mad at banks and who to vote for.

      Whether an iPhone or Android is better: Yes. While both iPhones and Android phones also emit radiation, that radiation is for sure less harmful than the high-energy radiation from this event.

      Who to vote for: It was an event of huge radiation. Radiation is bad, so to prevent such radiation in the future, you should vote for the Green: Since they are against radiation, they will certainly make sure that such a disastrous event (so disastrous that even the records about it got destroyed!) won't happen again.

      Whether you should be mad at banks: Banks usually have security personnel, therefore being mad at that place might not be a good idea. On the other hand, if you are a danger to yourself when going mad, it may be a better idea to be mad at a bank than when alone at home. Just make sure it's not your bank you get mad at, because they might not let you in again afterwards.

      Who to vote for: Well, this was possibly caused by solar flares. Now the Green are all for solar energy, which, as this event shows, is not without danger. Therefore you should vote for anyone but the Green.

      SCNR :-)

  3. Lavos by shiftless · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is that you?

  4. Behind the Sun? by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the supernova was behind or near the Sun, earthlings around 775 wouldn't have been able to detect it.

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    1. Re:Behind the Sun? by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You cant see a Gamma Ray burst. Sorry the real world is not like SCI-Fi.

      And no, they would not see it. Can you see ANY nebula in the night sky with your eyes? there are several that are LARGER than the moon up there if they were visible to the eye, but require a camera to show them, something that did not exist back then. Supernovae dont stay lit in the sky for a very long time they fade out to below human visibility within a short time and if it was close to the viewing line of the sun, Nobody would have ever seen it even if it was Lit up for a few weeks..

      --
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    2. Re:Behind the Sun? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Informative

      Can you see ANY nebula in the night sky with your eyes?

      Yes, there are. Orion, Pipe, Eta Carinae and Coal Sack are four you can see with the naked eye. Granted, the people back then wouldn't have known they were nebulas, but those objects were still visible in the night sky.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    3. Re:Behind the Sun? by bigrockpeltr · · Score: 4, Informative

      M42 (Great Nebula in Orion) is clearly visible with the naked eye even in fairly light polluted areas. Also, people have reported seeing at least one supernova with the naked eye from back in those days when light pollution was essentially zero. but you are right about not being able to notice a SN if it was only visible during the day.

      --
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    4. Re:Behind the Sun? by jamesh · · Score: 4, Funny

      that is a great idea...

      now how do you propose to find this one particular needle in a giant haystack?

      Maybe we could start by looking for elevated 14C level's in the tree rings?

      Circular evidence is still evidence right?

    5. Re:Behind the Sun? by forand · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If a GRB went off in the Galaxy then a few years of increased radioisotopes would be the least of the indicators. A mass extinction would be associated with such an event as most of the ionosphere would be striped from the Earth causing cosmic rays to reach the surface, this would have dramatic and lasting effects on life. I also neither implied nor stated that this was associated with a GRB.

      While supernova do not "stay lit in the sky for a very long time" you need to scale that with your time scale of the event. The Crab Nebula is the result of a supernova that went off in 1054 (Earth time) and was visible to the human eye for a period of approximately 2 years after it went off. There is no associated increase in radioisotopes for that event, thus indicating that a larger (likely closer as well) event would have to be the cause of the increased radioisotopes observed in 775.

    6. Re:Behind the Sun? by pla · · Score: 5, Informative

      If the supernova was behind or near the Sun, earthlings around 775 wouldn't have been able to detect it.

      Nearby supernovae appear as one of the brightest objects in the sky for a few days to a week. The remnants remain visible for months, and then have a habit of leaving a nebula behind.

      The Earth travels slightly more than one degree of its orbit per day; The Sun, as seen from the Earth, subtends half a degree of arc. In the absolute worst case, the sun couldn't completely "hide" a supernova for more than a single day; and half a week later, the supernova remnant would dominate the dusk (or dawn) as the brightest thing in the sky except possibly the moon.

  5. Effect on Carbon dating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Would this mean carbon dating is inaccurate for items older than 1300 years?

    Time to redate the Shroud of Turin?

    1. Re:Effect on Carbon dating? by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why do we care when a poorly made fake was made?

      Your first question is more interesting.

    2. Re:Effect on Carbon dating? by vlm · · Score: 5, Informative

      Would this mean carbon dating is inaccurate for items older than 1300 years?

      Things that were alive in 775 appear to have more C14 than usual, so even after centuries of decay, they'd still have more C14 than usual, which would make them measure younger. This is my understanding from reading the "Amateur Scientist" column in "Scientific American" about doing radiocarbon dating at home. SciAm used to be a pretty cool magazine, well, 50 years ago. When I was a high school kid I spent about two weeks one summer reading on microfilm pretty much every Amateur Scientist column from the 30s (when it was all telescopes) until the 70s when it started sucking. You can buy a collection of those columns on a cdrom now, of course.

      Time to redate the Shroud of Turin?

      I'm not up on my mythology, but I think it's made of woven plant or animal fibers, and this would have no effect unless the plants or animals that made it were alive in 775. If it was grown in 775, then it would be misdated to be somewhat younger. I might misremember but isn't the mythology something along the lines that it was grown just a short time before year 0 ? This error is going in the opposite direction then. Or theres some alternate mythology as regards templars and freemasons and such, which is too recent to be fixed by the error.

      Or the TLDR summary version of the above is ... "no, and no".

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    3. Re:Effect on Carbon dating? by EasyTarget · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Would this mean carbon dating is inaccurate for items older than 1300 years? "

      No; RC dating uses lots of correction tables to account for events like this (this is not the only such event, just the biggest one that is not explained) and for natural/cyclic variations in C14. So the effects of this will already be catered for when computing dates; it's just the 'WTF' of the event itself being discussed here.

      --
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    4. Re:Effect on Carbon dating? by philip.paradis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, it's not demeaning, unless you define "demeaning" as failure to place higher value on political correctness than scientific examination of things based on evidence. Beliefs being heartfelt doesn't make them scientifically valid, and oftentimes seems to result in irrational adherence to said beliefs. This occurs in the face of absolute lack of supporting evidence for said beliefs, and/or overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

      --
      Write failed: Broken pipe
    5. Re:Effect on Carbon dating? by mrsquid0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No. A myth is still a myth no matter how many people believe that it is not. If two billion people started to believe that the world was gnawed out of a carrot by The Great Rabbit, it would still be just a myth.

      --
      Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    6. Re:Effect on Carbon dating? by goodmanj · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, scientists have known for a long time that the 14C creation rate isn't quite constant, and have taken this into account in order to do accurate radiocarbon dating. In fact, it was by looking at this carbon-dating calibration curve that they first noticed something unusual in 775.

      http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature11123.html

    7. Re:Effect on Carbon dating? by Unordained · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just a side comment, but don't you think it's a little insulting to tell scientists who've put blood and sweat into these scientific discoveries that they need to pander to the religious, to pretend to hold some doubt, to lie that they wish they were wrong, to equivocate when no equivocation is really required, to imply and insinuate and hint rather than outright state what they know (inasmuch as you can know anything -- they'll grant you that), just to make people less sad about the religion they have merely because of the location of their birth and the (recursive) beliefs of their ancestry? I'm not normally one to go and try to de-convert the religious (my parents were missionaries, I'd rather just leave peole alone), but does that mean we have to be on eggshells? Besides -- the religious all feel free to call each other's religions (N) mere mythology and outright lies, why should we hold back about N+1 beliefs?

    8. Re:Effect on Carbon dating? by N0Man74 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just a side comment, but don't you think it's a little demeaning to dismiss the heartfelt beliefs of major segments of today's human population as "mythology"?

      Is it only demeaning if the beliefs are held by a major segment? There are still people who believe in or honor the Norse gods too, but I have yet to hear anyone get upset about the phrase "North Mythology".

      Listen, I fully support anyone's right to believe in whatever crazy thing they want (as long as nobody nobody else is being hurt or deprived of rights in the process) but that doesn't mean that I have to legitimize anyone's myths or handle its believers with kids gloves, whether the a vast majority or a tiny minority.

    9. Re:Effect on Carbon dating? by mrsquid0 · · Score: 5, Funny

      The Great Rabbit will protect me.

      --
      Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    10. Re:Effect on Carbon dating? by DinDaddy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Curious why you posit a difference between modern religions vs. older Greek religions that leads you to label the latter unequivocally as myths? Maybe I am reading a distinction you did not intend, but I would have said "makes one think of older Greek religions which are now accepted as myths".

    11. Re:Effect on Carbon dating? by DinDaddy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Carbon 14 dating assumes that the half-life is fairly constant,

      No it doesn't. It accounts for events like this.

    12. Re:Effect on Carbon dating? by spook+brat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Is it only demeaning if the beliefs are held by a major segment? There are still people who believe in or honor the Norse gods too, but I have yet to hear anyone get upset about the phrase "North Mythology".

      I'll give you your report about Norse mythology getting people upset, then. During my time in the Army I got to spend some time doing joint ops with the Norwegian military. I was given stern warnings by my buddies that the guys wearing hammer tattoos in the bar on base were not safe to taunt regarding their religion. Reason given: it's likely to get a violent response. I'm sure that when they're sober they would take some friendly ribbing just fine, but I felt no desire to see how a drunk Thor worshiper would react to being ridiculed at their base's bar for believing in a myth.

      --
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  6. It is Quit Obvious by arthurpaliden · · Score: 4, Funny

    The Sol system was the site of a major inter-stellar battle. Two great space armadas firing nuclear weapons at each other. Each one trying to gain a foothold in this part of the Western Spiral Arm until of course they realized there was nothing worth it here.

    Either that or a Vogon constructor fleet started making a hyper space by-pass. They got the planet between Mars and Jupiter and then the funding ran out.

  7. Re:Solar telescopes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    No. The sun was completely invisible until 1013.

  8. Re:Solar telescopes? by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 4, Funny

    The Police wrote a song about that, IIRC.

  9. Southern hemisphere supernova by vlm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yet, as the only known events that can produce a 14C spike are supernova explosions or ... and neither event was observed at the time

    ... was observed at the time in surviving northern written records.

    Are there any detailed written astronomical observations from the southern hemisphere from that long ago?

    Also it would be pretty funny if the two guys recording solar observations in 775 both had a rainstorm the day of the largest solar flare.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    1. Re:Southern hemisphere supernova by SirGarlon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Are there any detailed written astronomical observations from the southern hemisphere from that long ago?

      In 775 the Maya were almost certainly making astronomical observations. In the Eastern Hemisphere, I had to Google a bit but the Srivijaya Empire would have had a strong interest in astronomy for navigational purposes. But neither the Maya nor the Srivijaya civilizations have near as many surviving records as do European or Chinese civilizations of the same period.

      --
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  10. Neither explanation is likely by Stirling+Newberry · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Since a near supernova enough to increase Carbon 14 levels would leave other effects, and the flares explanation is, similarly, weak.It is just as likely there was a temporary reduction in the earth's magnetic field that allowed more ambient cosmic rays to strike earth. While this amount of variation in the magnetic field is high, it isn't out of range of other events. It has the further advantage of not leaving a large number of highly visible effects, except for very strong auroras, which, given the date, might not have been recorded frequently or unequivocally enough.

    1. Re:Neither explanation is likely by goodmanj · · Score: 4, Informative

      I had a geologist roommate once... I know just enough about geology to be really dangerous (like programmer with screwdriver)

      Yeah, this probably won't work. Magnetostratigraphy typically gives you information about changes taking place over the timescale that rock formations are created -- millions of years. Those seafloor magnetic field stripes are 100,000 to a million years wide.

      That said, if you found a place with intense, continuous volcanic activity, like Hawaii or Iceland, you might be able to find a series of lava flows the right age that would preserve the magnetic field data. The problem would be precisely dating the lava flows -- you can't use 14C dating for that.

  11. Re:Solar telescopes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I do it'll be because I think it's funny; not because you say so.
    I really wish people would stop with this sort of thing.

  12. Re:Behind the Sun?! by rvw · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Behind the Sun?"

    Maximum Prophet, for your information, the Earth rotates around the Sun.

    Being behind the Sun may not matter here, if the effect was strong and _long_ enough to elevate C14 levels.

    Wrong! Back then, the universe rotated around the earth. Everybody knows that. So it could be perfectly true back then, that this supernova hid behind the sun.

  13. Year of Permissiveness by TheCarp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    775 was a year of false permissiveness when anyone could read or do anything as long as it was produced by a small cabal known as "the group", headed by "owner".

    --
    "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  14. well by JustOK · · Score: 5, Informative

    A.D. 774. This year the Northumbrians banished their king,
    Alred, from York at Easter-tide; and chose Ethelred, the son of
    Mull, for their lord, who reigned four winters. This year also
    appeared in the heavens a red crucifix, after sunset; the
    Mercians and the men of Kent fought at Otford; and wonderful
    serpents were seen in the land of the South-Saxons.

    http://omacl.org/Anglo/part2.html

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  15. A few hints by aglider · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First of all, the 14C measurements and related considerations could be simply flawed. It would not be the first time.
    Second, the fact that the primary natural source of carbon-14 on Earth is cosmic ray action upon nitrogen in the atmosphere doesn't mean it's been a super nova for sure. That could also be due to abnormal solar activity (this is said in the article) which could easily go unobserved by civilizations that don't have the proper technology.
    Third, astronomical records at that era were relatively scarce and quite imprecise too.
    Fourth, the article talks about northern emisphere ... which would require a rather large number of samples to be studied and collected from a wide spread area (the whole northern emishere). I wonder how many (precious) samples of wood can be retrieved intact from 1200 years in the past to be literally burnt in order to measured the 14C.
    Fifth, you can also have a not-so-strong abnormal solar activity just lasting months or even quarters to produce the same amount of 14C.

    But all these could be as flawed as the original considerations ...

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  16. Re:Behind the Sun?! by mu51c10rd · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wrong again. Everyone knows the Earth was flat in 775...so there was no rotation only spinnning. Perfectly plausible to have a supernova hide under the Earth.

  17. Re:Behind the Sun?! by Noughmad · · Score: 5, Funny

    Of course, it all makes sense now. The supernove killed all the turtles, so the Earth had no choice but to start rotating.

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