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Adopt the Cloud, Kill Your IT Career

snydeq writes "IT professionals jumping into the cloud with both feet beware: It's irresponsible to think that just because you push a problem outside your office, it ceases to be your problem. It's not just the possibility of empty promises and integration issues that dog the cloud decision; it's also the upgrade to the new devil, the one you don't know. You might be eager to relinquish responsibility of a cranky infrastructure component and push the headaches to a cloud vendor, but in reality you aren't doing that at all. Instead, you're adding another avenue for the blame to follow. The end result of a catastrophic failure or data loss event is exactly the same whether you own the service or contract it out.'"

20 of 241 comments (clear)

  1. oh please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    no one even knows what the cloud is. It's everything, it's nothing, it's cheaper, it's not.

    run your IT shop like everything else, with common sense. Can external hosting work sometimes? sure, if so, do it and stop worrying about it.

    1. Re:oh please by Flyerman · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ohhhh, and when you can't use external hosting, put it on your "private cloud."

    2. Re:oh please by MrBigInThePants · · Score: 4, Insightful

      NB: Ironically I am probably going to be unfairly labeled a troll for this comment but this is NOT my intention. But it needs to be said because there is too much group think going on here and I have karma to burn so here goes...

      Many people DO know what the cloud is - just not that many people here it seems?!
      I am surprised at the number of vitriolic comments on all this topic and all "cloud" articles on /.. It is out of whack with the typical thoughtful discourse here.

      The main accusation is that the "cloud" has no meaning and/or that it is the rehashing of things that used to exist and has no value.

      Well I think I disagree to a large extent - but please hear me out. I have not drunk the kool aid I have just read and discussed it a lot.
      There certainly is a lot of hype and BS around this issue but that is expected as we have just crossed the "hype part" of the hype cycle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle) and are now on the downward slope into reality. I think people are attacking the hype and missing the "reality" to come. Short sighted I think?

      But am not really surprised by the comments or the very negative reaction as this "movement" as it is a major threat to many IT people. One of the main, explicit goals of the "cloud" is to fire many of the readers on slashdot! (NB: How well this nefarious plan works out is besides the point.)

      This NEW definition of cloud (who cares what used to be on network diagrams) for me is intertwined with SaaS/PaaS/IaaS and to be fair you cannot talk about one with out the other. You don't always use both together but they are interrelated.
      And yes it IS a "just form of outsourcing" and yes it rarely uses ground breaking technologies of the type we have never seen the likes of before. (possibly why a lot of people on this site don't seem to get it)
      However none of that means it is a load of old tosh and not worth anything. This is not directly about IT people or technology, this is about USERS and their perspective and a model that enables them to do things they have never been able to do before this easily. Specifically this is a service delivery model and it is making chunks of old-school IT services a commodity and will continue to do so. How effective it will be in the future at achieving its aims is up for discussion and prediction but, again, none of it means the definition is not worthwhile! And it is early days yet so don't poo poo the idea just yet - it has only just begun.

      These cloud services are easy to sign up and purchase, integrate easily and are bought on a "as needed" basis with a very easy ability to upgrade and scale with your business without the typical budget blowouts etc. (theoretically - there are of course many bad implementations at the moment as there are with anything)
      And many of the major cloud providers HAVE achieved this. When you bundle it up with the (S/I/P)aaS models things get very interesting for users.

      Just look at what it has done for SalesForce which is a great example of how things should be done.
      I have talked to marketing people who initially turned down Salesforce because of the huge licensing costs to buy, install and maintain it on their own hardware. The buy-in costs were ridiculous for an SME so they would typically settle for some cheap crappy alternative they were never happy with.
      Now it is not even a consideration. They just rent it as they need it and really don't have to worry about upgrades or budgetary surprises or upgrading hardware or up-skilling new IT staff for the product. For marketing people this is a best case scenario and a revelation. And they typically still use IT people to set it up - specialist 3rd party managed service providers who charge them a lot less than having IT people on staff and take care of the details. (no disrespect as I am an IT person - this is just the perspective of a marketing department)
      In short: they just don't want adopting Saleforce to be a hideously expensive and time consuming project with large on

    3. Re:oh please by batkiwi · · Score: 4, Informative

      Cloud != outsourcing even.

      Cloud is an easy description for where some layer is abstracted away to the level that it doesn't matter to implementers.

      At work we now have a "private cloud." What this comprises is simply a VERY large VM infrastrcture with automated deployment and full time monitoring.

      In the old world we would check a large chart of what apps were deployed on what servers, then place new apps on the least loaded servers. As loads changed our apps didn't move, we just were hosed unless we wanted people constantly installing and uninstalling apps on shared servers. Some servers were 2003R2, some 2008, some 2008R2, some 64bit, some 32 bit, etc. Some had shared components which one app upgrading might break, others didn't even have those components so you couldn't install new apps on it.

      Now we simply say "we want instances of this app running." Our infrastructure (vmware + SCCM) spins up 3 default VMs and autodeploys the software. One will be in our backup datacenter, two in the primary. If load is too high we request more resources (more nodes, more ram, more cores). The entire systems management side of things is abstracted away.

  2. I.T. curse by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since you "know computers" it will still be your problem.

    If I had a dime for every time I got blamed or was asked to fix something that was clearly outside of my sphere of influence...
    well, I probably wouldn't be reading slashdot right now.

    1. Re:I.T. curse by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Of course not. However, it's not my fault because my boss bought a shit cell phone that can't sink up with whatever before talking to me about it. By the very same (lack of) logic it is going to be my fault when the "cloud" explodes and goes down for three days. Many people are just not knowledgeable enough to understand where one sphere of influence begins and another ends. And it doesn't matter if the decision was made as a group; it's still YOUR fault.

      I help in every way possible, but no one knows everything when it's a subject as big as "computer."

    2. Re:I.T. curse by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And rightly so. Some IT managers like outsourcing because they think they're outsourcing accountability as well. Wrong: when you make the decision to outsource or move stuff to the cloud, it is your responsibility to do some due diligence on the vendor, make sure there's a sensible SLA, and have contingency plans just like you had when the servers were still under your control. Regarding the latter point: a lot of managers forget that when disaster strikes in their own data center, they are in control, and they can allocate resources and extra funds towards getting the most important servers back up first. But when disaster strikes your cloud provider, what priority will you get, when there's thousands of angry clients (including a number of fortune 500 companies) all shouting to get their service restored first?

      That doesn't mean that outsourcing and the cloud are bad per se. It means that when you make that decision, you should apply the more or less similar skills and considerations as you did when you still ran your own data center. You as an IT manager are still end responsible for delivering services to the business, and you cannot assume the cloud is a black box that always works. Plan accordingly.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:I.T. curse by trdrstv · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Of course not. However, it's not my fault because my boss bought a shit cell phone that can't sink up with whatever before talking to me about it. By the very same (lack of) logic it is going to be my fault when the "cloud" explodes and goes down for three days. Many people are just not knowledgeable enough to understand where one sphere of influence begins and another ends. "

      I hear that. I've had several executives ask me if I could reset their AOL password. :-/

    4. Re:I.T. curse by SomePgmr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've never had a big problem with that for the (very few) services we do outsource.

      "Salesforce is really slow!" *
      "Hold... I've checked everything on our end, from your workstation out, and we're 100%. It's Salesforce."
      "Those fuckers."

      The real trick is in keeping an eye on how often you're actually hearing things like that and how often it's the outside provider's fault. Because, believe me, your coworkers would be doing the same for your internally hosted solution.

      * Random example I get pretty rarely. We haven't had SF go down outside of scheduled maintenance in the last four years.

    5. Re:I.T. curse by vlm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Regarding the latter point: a lot of managers forget that when disaster strikes in their own data center, they are in control, and they can allocate resources and extra funds towards getting the most important servers back up first.

      I've been involved in virtualization and outsourcing on both sides buyer and seller for a bit more than 20 years. This aspect is always forgotten by the PHBs.

      If the email server explodes, I have $$$$$ high five figures per year of motivation to fix it ASAP. If an outsourced email provider explodes they have
      $49.95/month or whatever of motivation to fix it. I have seen some very sad sights over the decades. If the cost of repair/support exceeds the cost of sales for a similar commission, too bad so sad. Oh your whole multi-million dollar business relies on working, email, oh well. It doesn't matter if we're talking about mainframe service bureau processing, or outsourced email/DNS/webhosting from the 90s/00s, or an online cloud provider, your uptime is not worth a penny more than you're paying for the service. You might, at best, get your provider to B.S. you a sense of urgency... but watch what they do, not what they say.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  3. So much for definitions... by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I guess "cloud" at this point means, "Running your programs on a computer with a network connection."

    --
    Palm trees and 8
    1. Re:So much for definitions... by acoustix · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Cloud can have defined scope. Its a network philosophy, like any other.

      Nope. The term "cloud" was coined over a decade ago when using diagrams to display network topology. The cloud was a stencil or icon that represented the Internet or a group of unknown hardware that was managed by someone else.

      It's like taking the term "broadband" whose original meaning was the ability to perform frequency multiplexing, whereas now it supposedly means high speed Internet access. The two definitions for broadband have absolutely nothing in common.

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
  4. -cloud +outsourcing by MrEricSir · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This has nothing specifically to do with "the cloud" at all. It's the same problem you have when you outsource anything -- the company you hired might not provide the quality you were expecting.

    Can we please stop the re-hash of old ideas with buzzwords attached? This is a site for engineers, not MBA idiots.

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
  5. Ya we had that problem by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Informative

    Campus decided to outsource our e-mail to Microsoft BOPS, rather than just do Exchange (or something else) on campus. Problem was that doesn't mean that suddenly campus IT just gets to say "e-mail isn't our problem, call MS!" No, rather IT still hast o do front line support but now when there's a problem you have to call someone else, get the runaround, finger pointing, slow response, and so on.

    Net result? We now have an Exchange server on campus and do e-mail that way.

    It isn't like outsourcing something magically makes all problems go away, particularly user problems. So you still end up needing support for that, but then you get to deal with another layer of support, one that doesn't really give a shit if your stuff works or not.

    Basically people need to STFU about the "cloud" and realize that it is what it always has been: outsourcing and evaluate if it makes sense on those merits. Basically outsourcing is a reasonable idea if you are too small to do something yourself, or if someone does a much better job because they are specialized at it. If neither of those are true, probably best not to outsource.

    1. Re:Ya we had that problem by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 5, Informative
      You don't get it.

      You out source when the out sourcing provider comes in and takes your IT chief and the CEO out on a nice golfing trip and gives all the members of the IT teams ball point pens with their logo on it.

      Then, after a while, the in-house software provider sales manager comes around and takes CXOs for nice island get away. And you get baseball caps with the company logo. Then they undo all the out sourced services and implement it in house.

      Then comes Accenture and Infosys and Wipro. They tell the CXO, "look, some of you are into golf, some into island vacations. We don't want to force you. Just take our cold hard cash. We are from India. We know how important it is to make direct cash payments instead of the indirect in kind payments". They get thrown out.

      Then the McKenzies and Price Waterhouses etc come in. They speak in obtuse languages, take the cold hard cash from Accenture, Wipro and Infosys, skim something off the top and pass the rest to CXO in a perfectly legal way. Of course you will get your token appreciation trinket. Probably a bamboo drink coaster for your coffee mug.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  6. Re:Depends on what cloud by acoustix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's called the "cloud" because in network diagrams we used an image of a cloud to describe the part of a network that isn't managed by us or the contents of the hardware is unknown. So to call something a "private cloud" means that while it's 100% under your control you have no fucking clue what hardware is running or how it is configured.

    Congratulations. You just described yourself as being an admin of a network of which you have no clue.

    --
    "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
  7. Re:another... by Forty+Two+Tenfold · · Score: 4, Insightful
    --
    Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
  8. But it is Easier! by bobbied · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Moving to the cloud is easier, which is why we keep considering it. It is easier to off load the work onto some cloud operator who is supposed to do it better and possibly cheaper, or at least it LOOKS easier. No more dealing with backup tapes, No more dealing with software licenses and the like, just pay your vendor of choice copy all your data onto the cloud and start tossing hardware and the people that managed it out the door.

    Problem here is that doing this job right, on a budget, and on time is FAR from easy. Plus, it is going to be very difficult to verify that your vendor is actually doing the job correctly, considering that the hardware isn't accessible, being located in some server room some distance away. Who knows if they actually do backups of anything, much less actually do off site storage of recovery media. My guess is that as competition in this area heats up, prices will fall with quality falling too. Costs will be trimmed by eliminating skilled labor and without skilled labor the whole house of cards will fall.

    Seems to me that the cloud may be a short term gain for most, but in the long run, dumping your infrastructure and the people that go with it is going to bite you eventually, unless the business is very small.

    Finally, the biggest messes I've had to clean up had very little to do with a hardware failure or some loss of data. The worst messes I've seen where caused by some administrative error.... Replacing the wrong disk in the RAID, causing the total data loss or not thinking though a command before hitting enter. I don't see how being on a cloud will fix this kind of thing.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  9. Re:another... by sortius_nod · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have to agree. This summary is, well, crap. Anyone trying to "push problems" to somewhere/someone else rather than resolving the problem shouldn't be working in IT for a start.

    This is another "fear the cloud, it eats babies" post, which are becoming more frequent recently. I know I'd never make a decision of how/where to host apps/services purely on one criteria, eg: getting rid of my local headache.

    Yet another failure of an IDG article.

  10. Re:another... by NotSanguine · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The text below is part of an email I sent my brother the other day when he suggested that my organization move our IT onto hosted servers (I refuse to use the 'c' word because it's just marketing bullshit). It details some of the reasons why using a hosting provider won't work for my organization. This is the case for my organization -- YMMV. Some of the text has been obfuscated to protect identities:

    Why don't we use hosted servers?

    Think about it like this, a [industry] business is based on information, confidentiality and good reputation.

    How would you like it if you were involved in a [transaction] with, say, a [business] who mishandled funds related to [your stuff]. Your [representative] puts all his files on a hosted EC3 or Azure server and there's a breach. Those documents could well include confidential communications, financial information, etc., etc., etc., Now your confidential information is out in the wild.

    What would that say about the trustworthiness of your [representative] and his/her processes?

    We employ multi-layered security to ensure that doesn't happen. We control who has physical access to our VM infrastructure as well as network access. Those who have administrative access are all employees of [business]. They're not employees of a third party who has no stake (other than retaining the revenue stream) in the success of the [business].

    And I haven't even touched on the network bandwidth issues -- we have to manage and process huge amounts of data, much of which comes from our customers.. If I send you a couple dozen DVDs, will [your hosting provider] load them up onto the server? No? Then we have to transfer huge datasets of customer data across the internet So then we need to increase the size of our network pipes. What's the latency between [provider's] data centers and Europe? Asia?

    We get anywhere from sub-millisecond to 10-15ms latency between our offices and our virtual infrastructure. Unless we move our offices into the [provider's] data centers, we won't get anything close to that.

    I could go on and on and on.

    Bottom line, hosted servers are great. 95% of our servers are VMs. We just host them on our own virtualization infrastructure. If you're a start up or a small company like [other person], it *may* make sense. For medium and large businesses, not so much.

    It's all about fitting the infrastructure to the business model.

    --
    No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr