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Japan Restarts Two of Its 50 Nuclear Reactors

Posted by timothy on from the even-numbers-only dept.

Darth_brooks writes "Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda ordered the restart of two idle nuclear reactors Saturday, amid split public response. The Japanese government is trying to fill a summer power shortfall. According to the article, the two reactors supply power to the Kansai region near Osaka, where local officials were predicting a 15% shortfall in power capacity during July and August."

24 of 224 comments (clear)

  1. That's good news by Tarantulas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They should leave all the reactors offline that have safety flaws common to the Fukushima plants (close proximity to tidal wave hazards, external diesel generator fuel tanks, etc.) and start up all the rest.

    1. Re:That's good news by SuperTechnoNerd · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not that simple because Japan has the additional problem that some of the country uses 60Hz like here in the us and some places use 50Hz like in europe.

    2. Re:That's good news by AK+Marc · · Score: 5, Funny

      Why don't they standardize on 55 Hz?

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    3. Re:That's good news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      You know, do at least *some* research before stating bullshit.

      It is a HUGE PROBLEM. Any interconnect is very limited in size. If a significant portion of one grid is impacted, you can't easily move power from one grid to another. This is exactly the situation in Japan.

    4. Re:That's good news by nojayuk · · Score: 5, Informative

      The HVDC links between the two grids have a limited capacity, about 2GW as I recall. They've not needed anything bigger since both parts of the country have adequate generating capacity for each region, or at least they did until the nuclear stations in the Kansai area and points south shut down for inspection and refuelling and didn't restart. The Kanto area (Tokyo and environs) has a lot of older coal-burning and oil-burning power stations that were demothballed after they lost the Fukushima Daiichi and Daini reactors and the other stations shut down due to the quake and tsunami (Onagawa, Tokai and Hamaoka) were refused permission to restart. Kansai (Osaka, Kobe, Hiroshima etc.) has fewer fossil-burners available to bring back to use hence the predicted electricity supply shortages in the region this summer.

    5. Re:That's good news by petermgreen · · Score: 3, Informative

      Some older electronics with PSUs that use mains frequency transformers and whose design was close to the edge may have problems as may some stuff that uses mains as a time reference but mostly electronics should be fine.

      Clocks (whether electronic or mechanical) that derive their timebase from the mains would be a nuisance but ultimately if it was the main issue I think they would have forced a transition through by now.

      Afaict the real problem is the big stuff, big motors and generators are usually at least somewhat locked to grid frequency and a 10% change in operating speed is probablly not acceptable. Transformers can also be problematic as a lower frequency can cause core saturation leading to overheating. Replacing that stuff would be seriously expensive.

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    6. Re:That's good news by MacGyver2210 · · Score: 3, Informative

      after they lost the Fukushima Daiichi and Daini reactors

      The Fukushima Daini reactor was not lost, and didn't even sustain damage. It shut down automatically during the earthquake, and was not restarted due to the unfounded fear/danger/hype that began about nuclear power.

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  2. Yep... by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can't survive on renewable energy, and can't built the old coal power plants fast enough even when you're buying up coal as fast as Canada can dig it out of the ground for you. Not a surprise...not a damn surprise. Especially when you've got the idle plants just sitting there.

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    1. Re:Yep... by mweather · · Score: 4, Funny

      Building coal plants fast enough isn't a problem unless you simultaneously shut down all the nuclear reactors.

    2. Re:Yep... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If people get pissed about nuclear reactors and see building coal plants as a good alternative, I wouldn't care about the time it takes, those people are bloody idiots.

    3. Re:Yep... by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 3, Informative

      Supplying coal is one problem, dumping the toxic remains is another. Coal power plants are a disaster as bad as fukushima even when nothing goes wrong.

  3. Shortages are a solved problem. by Ichijo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There's another way to fix the shortfall: simply raise the price of peak hour electricity until demand falls to the level of supply. We've known for hundreds of years that prices set below the going rate determined by supply and demand is the cause of shortages.

    The increased peak hour revenue could be used to lower off-peak electricity prices so that people pay on average the same as before.

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    1. Re:Shortages are a solved problem. by jklovanc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sorry but your logic does not actually work well for hot areas. The peak need for air conditioning comes during the day which is also the peak overall electrical demand time. At night the need for cooling is less as would the electrical rates would be lower. So as the days get hotter an air conditioning user will be using much more peak priced energy than off peak priced energy and their electrical bill will go up.

      What about businesses who only operate during peak price time? They will not get much discount from off-peak price because they do not use it.

      There is a falsehood in tying every purchase to the supply/demand curve. Some commodities are considered discretionary purchases. In the case of orange juice one could purchase apple juice instead. The supply/demand curve works very well in such cases. In the case of electricity, the only option is to use less. Most people are already conserving as much as they can so electrical purchases are no longer discretionary. No matter how much you raise prices most people are still going to use what they use up to the point of no longer paying their electrical bill.

    2. Re:Shortages are a solved problem. by GreatBunzinni · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's another way to fix the shortfall: simply raise the price of peak hour electricity until

      ...until industrial production is affected by the skyrocketing costs and the whole economy of Japan faces a recession caused by the increased production costs and lack of ability to compete in the economic field.

      In alternative, they can simply turn on a couple of the 50 power generators they have just sitting there, that never exhibit a single problem in their entire existence.

      I wonder what's the best option.

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    3. Re:Shortages are a solved problem. by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's another way to fix the shortfall: simply raise the price of peak hour electricity until demand falls to the level of supply.

      Yes that works quite well if you're an all consuming nation that has no industry and produces nothing. Quite the opposite is true for Japan. The real fears were that rolling blackouts would start to affect their manufacturing industry and that it would give rise to a second major crash in their economy.

      That doesn't even take into account what happens to a nation which is unable to run cooling or heating. Treating people suffering a condition is many times less efficient on resources than preventing the condition from taking place in the first place. You only need to look to Europe to see what happens when gas supplies are suddenly removed from people, which is exactly what happens when you price heating or cooling out of reach of people who may suffer heat stroke / hypothermia.

    4. Re:Shortages are a solved problem. by lucifuge31337 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I asked a valid question.

      And you were asked if you were an idiot because even as far north as New York (and further) every summer hear wave comes with reports on the news of how many people died in their homes form the heat. Yes, these are predominantly the old and/or infirm and always the poor. I'm in no way OK with that. Are you?

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  4. not actually that unpopular locally by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Informative

    While restarting any nuclear reactors is currently quite unpopular in Japan nationally, the decision to restart this particular plant's two reactors was actually made with local input and approval. Local councils aren't normally required to approve such matters, but due to the current controversy, Japan's government de-facto made restart contingent on approval from the local government. After several months of safety studies and deliberation, the municipal council voted 11-1 in favor of restarting the reactors in mid-May, which gave the national government some cover to go ahead with it.

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    1. Re:not actually that unpopular locally by Kalidor · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Agreed. I also like how 32% opposed to the restart, and 38% with no opinions in public polls (numbers in the the same NHK feed they sourced) is "widespread public opposition".

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    2. Re:not actually that unpopular locally by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In general, nothing trumps NIMBY quite like a threatened return to the dark ages.

  5. No surprise by bazorg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When you can't have everything your way, having some electricity is not a bad start.

  6. What an incredibly stupid argument by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Both Fukushima and the subsequent tests have clearly shown that nuclear power, especially when bought from an occupying power and built by a powerful oligopoly under a weak and corrupt government, is neither cheap, nor safe.

    If you had even a single brain cell you would arrive at the opposite conclusion.

    Fukushima survived a huge earthquake, and unexpected wave, and a disastrous internal failure.

    DESPITE all that, very few people were killed, and almost no-one outside the plant had any exposure of significance to radiation.

    And all this in a plant with a design that was decades old...

    If you can't see how inherently safe nuclear is from this incident, nothing can reach your luddite mind.

    Nuclear is the one green energy we truly have at our disposal, and backward bumpkins like yourself seek to rob humanity of the benefits that come from cheap and continuous access to power. How many more lives must perish under your cruel tyranny of unwarranted fear?

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    1. Re:What an incredibly stupid argument by LordLimecat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      DESPITE all that, very few people were killed,

      Thats not exactly true, I heard some 20,000 died from the tidal wave.

      The mockery here is that everyone has their panties in a bunch over 2 hospitalized workers (no doubt very brave and much to be commended) and a handful who died @ fukushima, while a whole coastline was littered with dead and dying people who got about 5 minutes of airtime.

      WOOO PERSPECTIVE! Way to have those priorities in line.

  7. Re:Nuclear disaster nearly shut down Tokyo by Rising+Ape · · Score: 4, Insightful

    (with the disaster spreading to nuclear reactors closer to Tokyo) this would have happened.

    What possible mechanism could have caused that? Radioactive leaks aren't like an infectious disease, they don't cause distant power stations to become damaged.

  8. Re:Nuclear disaster nearly shut down Tokyo by solferino · · Score: 3, Informative

    The 400-page report, due to be released later this week, also describes a darkening mood at the prime minister's residence as a series of hydrogen explosions rocked the plant on March 14 and 15. It says Mr. Kan and other officials began discussing a worst-case outcome if workers at the Fukushima Daiichi plant were evacuated. This would have allowed the plant to spiral out of control, releasing even larger amounts of radioactive material into the atmosphere that would in turn force the evacuation of other nearby nuclear plants, causing further meltdowns.

    The report quotes the chief cabinet secretary at the time, Yukio Edano, as having warned that such a 'demonic chain reaction' of plant meltdowns could result in the evacuation of Tokyo, 150 miles to the south.

    "We would lose Fukushima Daini, then we would lose Tokai," Mr. Edano is quoted as saying, naming two other nuclear plants. "If that happened, it was only logical to conclude that we would also lose Tokyo itself."

    Source: NY Times article on top-level report reviewing the disaster.