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Chuck Schumer Tells Apple and Google To "Curb Your Spy Planes"

mk1004 writes with news from The Register that U.S. Senator Charles Schumer of New York has written to Apple and Google regarding their use of 'military-grade spy planes.' The Senator claims concerns ranging from voyeurism to terrorism. Suggested protections: Warn when areas are going to be imaged, give property owners the right to opt out, and blurring of individuals. Schumer seems happy enough, though, with the more detailed versions of such surveillance being in the hands of law enforcement agencies, and phrases his complaint to emphasize what he perceives as risks to infrastructure brought about by detailed maps that anyone can browse: "[I]f highly detailed images become available, criminals could create more complete schematic maps of the power and water grids in the United States. With the vast amount of infrastructure across the country, it would be impossible to secure every location."

27 of 302 comments (clear)

  1. It is no coincidence by Cornwallis · · Score: 3, Funny

    that "WTSHTF" is often referred to as "When the Schumer Hits the Fan".

    1. Re:It is no coincidence by durrr · · Score: 5, Funny

      Warning people before is a terrible idea. I don't like the prospect of seeing people spreading their buttcheeks to the sky on every single map that's availible.

  2. Whats Up Chuck? by RapidEye · · Score: 5, Funny

    So what is Chuck doing in his back yard that he doesn't want everyone to see, hmmm????

    --
    "Murderer? Well, that's a harsh word. I prefer to think of myself as a Mortality Technician."
    1. Re:Whats Up Chuck? by Nimey · · Score: 4, Funny

      All we're asking for is a simple yes or no: did Chuck Schumer fuck a dog to death in 1990? We're just /asking questions/. Why can't the senator put this to rest?

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    2. Re:Whats Up Chuck? by datavirtue · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is opposed under the guise of protecting or fighting for the common man who doesn't yet know that he doesn't want Google taking a picture of his yard. More likely, it is paranoid companies (campaign contributors) who are worried about possible the backlash from people finding out about their unethical environmental practices that are still grandfathered in.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
  3. fear everything! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    let's completely ignore the societal and economic benefits of such technology because ... fear, people. Fear.

    1. Re:fear everything! by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah.. give corporations the same rights as governments. That always works out for the best.

    2. Re:fear everything! by Jeng · · Score: 4, Informative

      Private individuals as well as corporations have been doing areal photography for private use since around 1860.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    3. Re:fear everything! by iluvcapra · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Firstly, governments, wether they be state, federal, county, whatever, don't have "rights." They have powers. It's a big difference -- human beings have rights because of natural law, or social acceptance, or convention; they aren't contingent and cannot be revoked. Government power is always contingent, even if they put guns to everyone's heads -- which is actually an indicator of a very weak government, not a powerful one.

      Therefore Corporations can be given far more rights than the government.

      Well said, loyal consumer! For your grassroots advocacy, you have earned an extra allotment of scrip to spend at the company store!

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    4. Re:fear everything! by GungaDan · · Score: 3, Funny

      *Areola photography.

      FTFY.

      --
      Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
    5. Re:fear everything! by Sentrion · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Only governments have the right to use guns

      That used to be the case but no longer is.
      http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0910-07.htm

      "Privatization" is the primary agenda of the corporate sponsored Tea Party and related movements. The goals are to dismantle the government offices and subcontract those roles to private corporations (on the presumption that government-run organizations are inherently inefficient and waste taxpayer dollars). Multi-national conglomerates already "own" the US Congress through aggressive lobbying, kickbacks for campaign funding, and the promise of highly compensated future roles as consultants, senior executives, or board members for today's politicians, judges, and appointed officials. The mega-corporations are to US government what the cocaine and heroine cartels are to the Mexican government.

      To give you an idea, here's a quick summary of the transitions sought or already begun:
      WAS - NOW
      Regulatory Agencies - Self-regulation

      Public Utilities - Same utilities but customers now have to buy through specially qualified "distributors" of the same utility rather than direct

      Public Courts - Private Arbitration (many judges today are issuing one-sided pro-business decisions in the hope of landing a better paid position as a private arbitrator at one of the major firms. Arbitration proceedings do not have to follow state or federal rules of procedure, appeals are limited, legal precedant does not apply, there is never any jury of peers, and rulings do not even need to abide by the US Constitution)

      Collections Agencies - Sheriffs and Judges (ok, this is a reversal, but not a good one, and one that serves corporate interests and re-institutes debtor's prisons: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jailed-for--280--the-return-of-debtors--prisons.html )

      Corrections Facilities - Private Prisons (and much incentive to fill them regardless of guilt or innocence: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal )

      CIA - Private contractors (including foreign nationals. No oath of service or duty to uphold the Constitution. Can violate US and international law while not accountable to anyone outside of their employment contract)

      US Armed Forces - See above
      State Law Enforcement - See above

      Public Schools - Vouchers for Private Schools (non-sectarian schools have limited capacity. In a "free market" your kids would likely end up in a fundamentalist religious school). In time the vouchers would go away as they are not a product of the "free market" and make the system unworkable.

      Fire Departments - Private Fire Departments http://www.salon.com/2010/10/04/libertarian_fire_department/

      The "benefits" of privatization have been debunked for most roles of government http://umaine.edu/ble/files/2011/01/Privatization-BP-08.pdf
      But privatization is still pushed as a cure-all in election campaign ads. I could go on, but as I show above, "privatization" eventually eliminates all of your Constitutional rights and protections. Once the corporations OWN the government AND the guns, who is going to help you? I'd rather not give corporations any more rights than they already have, especially since they are now considered "people" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission.

    6. Re:fear everything! by operagost · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I can't think of any such nation in history, unless you're counting narco states. I don't understand why people think that even supposedly democratic governments are inherently less corrupt than publicly held corporations. You buy your votes in both.

      Your post just seems like a nihilist form of advocacy for authoritarianism, like a fascist Eeyore. "Can't win; guess we might as well have a dictator and fake elections 'cause at least it's better than being run by corporations. OOOOO-kay."

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  4. Same was said with a lot of tech by MozeeToby · · Score: 5, Interesting

    GPS used to have a 1km fudge factor inserted into it to prevent people using it for terrorist activities.

    Not that I'm entirely sure how I feel about Google using drones to improve Google Earth. If I have a privacy fence up... well, it's to protect my privacy. Taking pictures from a low flying drone isn't much different than leaning a ladder against the fence and climbing up to peer over. On the other hand, it's a one time thing (or at least rare) and the same viewing angle can be achieved any number of ways that people don't have a problem with (if nothing else manned aircraft). I think I'm actually going to have to think about this one a bit...

    1. Re:Same was said with a lot of tech by vlm · · Score: 4, Informative

      GPS used to have a 1km fudge factor inserted into it to prevent people using it for terrorist activities.

      LOL rewriting history .mil always had the high precision codes, at least I/we did in the early 90s. I forget the nickname our handbag sized GPS receivers had, it was a long time ago. The main point was making sure our grunts on the ground could give their exact grid square to artillery support, but the other guys wouldn't have the tech. Eventually it became fairly pointless to restrict anymore, once everyone had cheap RX and it never really materialized as a tactical problem.

      Also some concern about ICBM and cruise missile nav points.

      It was never, until post 9/11 history rewriting, about terrorism.

      To some extent, I can't figure out what to do from a terror standpoint with high accuracy GPS positions that wouldn't be just as scary with low precision.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:Same was said with a lot of tech by Bigby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I really fail to see how this should be treated any different than someone flying 100 ft or 10,000 ft over your house and looking down. Just because the camera is insanely better than a human eye and it can be stored perpetually should be inconsequential. If you want progress, you can't legislate technology. This is like Google driving around on public roads to take pictures and collect WiFi info. Just because they did it on a large scale shouldn't make it illegal. These arbitrary lines drawn by government (or people simply requesting them) are crazy.

      When you have a neighbor, you put up a fence. If someone looks over the fence, too bad for you; build it higher. If someone flies over the top, put a roof up.

      Wait until we have contact lenses like the Google Glasses. These arbitrary lines are going to stop innovation. You won't be able to use it because it can process too much information, when it would probably revolutionize society.

    3. Re:Same was said with a lot of tech by oobayly · · Score: 4, Informative

      You're thinking of Selective Availability, which degraded precision giving errors of up to 100m, not 1,000m. As others said it was done to prevent foreign military from using the full capabilities of GPS,

      As a bit of an anecdote, I remember my uncle complaining of how his GPS was inaccurate compared to the previous day whilest laying marks for some dinghy racing. I made a quip about the Americans probably bombing some country. That evening the news was full of pictures of Tomahawks being fired into Afganistan. I became a bit more careful making facetious comments that day.

    4. Re:Same was said with a lot of tech by malakai · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think GP was talking about Selective Availability (SA). Basically an intentional error that limited accuracy of commercial GPS to 30-100m. It was turned off 5/2/2000. Ever since then we've had 95% 10m accuracy, but the DOD has the ability to selectively re-enable SA on individual satellites. The thought being, if we see a couple of cruise missiles ( or a missile boat ) within range of the US, we can disrupt GPS so it can't be used against us. As a defensive layer, this ability no longer packs the same punch as it did back in the day. Terrain contour matching ( TERCOM ) is cheap and 'easy' these days with the processors and power available to avionic packages. I don't doubt if you google for it, someone's built a TERCOM system for their hobby RC plane by now.

      Either way, it wasn't about _terrorism_ so much as it was about nation vs nation war.

    5. Re:Same was said with a lot of tech by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think GP was talking about Selective Availability (SA). Basically an intentional error that limited accuracy of commercial GPS to 30-100m. It was turned off 5/2/2000. Ever since then we've had 95% 10m accuracy, but the DOD has the ability to selectively re-enable SA on individual satellites. The thought being, if we see a couple of cruise missiles ( or a missile boat ) within range of the US, we can disrupt GPS so it can't be used against us. As a defensive layer, this ability no longer packs the same punch as it did back in the day. Terrain contour matching ( TERCOM ) is cheap and 'easy' these days with the processors and power available to avionic packages. I don't doubt if you google for it, someone's built a TERCOM system for their hobby RC plane by now.

      There's actually another aspect of GPS that's little known - there are limits placed on GPS receivers by the government. Basically a civillian (C/A) receiver must disable itself once its calculated speed and altitude go above certain limits (CoCom Limits), meant to prevent their use in missiles and such.

      While most people won't reach the speed limits, people have reached the height limits when doing "space" photography using weather balloons. They consistently lose their GPS telemetry data at that point.

  5. What's good for the goose... by Revvy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Senator Schumer,

    You seem to be arguing that drone usage by private companies violates the privacy and/or security of the American public. Many people agree with that. Additionally, many people agree that drone usage by Law Enforcement Agencies and US Federal Agencies also violates the privacy and/or security of the American public.

    I find it hypocritical, then, that you would simultaneously support the use of armed drones in the US by Federal Agencies and Law Enforcement while objecting to unarmed drone use by private enterprise. Perhaps I'm not understanding your position clearly. Perhaps, and I believe this to be more likely, I am.

    -----
    Your lips are moving.

    1. Re:What's good for the goose... by Mr+44 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Chuck Schumer is one of the biggest pro-government control-freak assholes in congress. He has no qualms bending logic, twisting and lying to spin whatever propoganda he needs to in order to advance his agenda. He has never met a law he didn't like, and works to restrict freedom with his every move.

      This is only latest in a decades long series of moves by him.

      See:
      Chuck Schumer vs. Free Speech

      Schumer Among Biggest Supporters of Anti-Piracy Laws (He was a co-sponsor of SOPA and PIPA)

      Schumer's racket: Lobbyists and hedge funds

      Schumer proposes new federal regulations on grill brushes

      And since the above links are all pretty recent, here's some Schumer history:

      On the eve of the first anniversary of the Oklahoma bombing in April, 1996, Congress passed the Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. The Democrats were very disappointed, however, because the bill passed without proposed expansions of wiretapping authority. In May 1996, Reps. Charles Schumer (D-NY) and John Conyers (D-MI) introduced H.R. 3409 "to combat domestic terrorism."

      The bill, titled the "Effective Anti-Terrorism Tools for Law Enforcement Act of 1996," would expand the powers granted to the FBI to engage in multi- point (roving) wiretaps and emergency wiretaps without court orders, and to access an individual's hotel and vehicle and storage facility rental records. It also relaxed the requirements for obtaining pen register and trap and trace orders in foreign intelligence investigations.

  6. It's all military grade, or better by Overzeetop · · Score: 5, Informative

    Nice grandstanding. Have you seen the Planet Earth series? I'd say that's probably better than "military grade" video. Actually, there's a lot of stuff out there better than military grade. Get over it.

    Aside from being able to map out things from the comfort of your Abbottabad living room using a single source instead of doing regular old recon (it's not hard, or particularly obvious), there's no change except a perceptual one. He is correct that it is effectively impossible to secure every location. A better plan would be to build in the redundancy that should have been there in the first place. If my power goes out - way out in the country - for a week, it sucks to be me, but the 30,000 of us can manage. If power to the east coast goes out for a week, that's really, really bad. Perhaps you should consider a more robust system that is less prone to single point failures?

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  7. Re:well... by Sparticus789 · · Score: 3, Informative

    You do realize that Chuck Schumer is a Democrat, right? Definitely not a Tea Party guy.

    Fail

    --
    sudo make me a sandwich
  8. 4inches by I+Read+Good · · Score: 4, Funny

    FTA: "...Google and Apple have upgraded their capabilities to aircraft-based photography that can see through windows and capture detailed images with four-inch resolution."

    Four-inch resolution? I guess I don't have anything to worry about!

  9. Re:Security by obscurity? by Zerth · · Score: 4, Informative

    Plus, if you want a complete map of the water infrastructure, you can just asked the water company and they will /give/ it to you.

  10. "Curb You're Drones" Eh? by BlueStrat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You first, Chucky!

    Yet another mealy-mouthed, two-faced, lying, dinosaur of a career politician that should be swinging from the end of a rope instead of being in a position of government power.

    A Google drone might spot a greenhouse in my backyard and target horticultural product ads at me. The horror!

    A government drone might spot the same greenhouse and target a SWAT raid on me. Or a Hellfire missile.

    If Chucky and his TLA buddies can fly a drone over me, I should be able to fly a drone over Chucky & friends.

    Maybe an open-source drone project for civilians to counter the governments domestic drone spying with their own spy drones? I bet a few civilian drones buzzing over these politician's own homes and offices would get some attention.

    And if the government decides to severely restrict civilian drone use while giving free reign to TLA/LEO drones, maybe my experience with designing military missile & torpedo guidance/targeting systems could find civilian counter-applications.

    Strat

    --
    Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    1. Re:"Curb You're Drones" Eh? by couchslug · · Score: 5, Informative

      "If Chucky and his TLA buddies can fly a drone over me, I should be able to fly a drone over Chucky & friends."

      He also wants to disarm you since he clearly knows best how to run a society.

      http://www.nraila.org/legislation/federal-legislation/2011/3/schumer-bill-includes-steps-toward-fede.aspx

      The Second Amendment codifies the Right to Keep and Bear Arms to embed the capability for revolution in US society, which was founded by revolution. Those who would take your weapons would make you slaves.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  11. Re:Security by obscurity? by ff1324 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You can ask, but you can't get it. At least not here.

    We purchased ArcGIS to evaluate our responses at the fire department I work for. The county, highway department, assessors office, and other 911 centers were more than happy to share data with us. The water company wouldn't. We were originally told their security policy would not allow them to share data with us.

    That's right. The water company could not tell the fire department where the fire hydrants are because of security policy.

    Total WTF moment...