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AMD To Open-Source Its Linux Execution & Compilation Stack

Posted by Soulskill on from the open-source-execution-is-not-as-bad-as-it-sounds dept.

An anonymous reader writes "According to Phoronix, AMD will be open-sourcing its Linux execution and compiler stack as part of jump-starting the Heterogeneous System Architecture Foundation. The HSA Foundation was started earlier this month at the AMD Fusion Developer Summit and AMD plans to open up its stack so that others can utilize the code without causing HSA fragmentation. This will include LLVM code, the HSA run-time, an HSA kernel driver for Linux distributions, an HSA assembler, and other components."

81 comments

  1. Interesting timing... by DeTech · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Capitalizing on the Nvidia slam fest this week maybe?

    1. Re:Interesting timing... by pecosdave · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I came here to say this. AMD is basically tea-bagging Nvidia with this.

      Sadly, before the ATI/AMD merger I was an Nvidia/AMD fan, and I still have an Nvidia card in my quad core AMD system and still don't like ATI graphics, but I'm beginning to question the logic in that.

      I'm so confused.

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    2. Re:Interesting timing... by Jeng · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm so confused.

      Buy that which fills the needs the best regardless of brand.

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    3. Re:Interesting timing... by unixhero · · Score: 2

      Intel needs to buy Nvidia, with all that cash it has, and put and put some sense into Nvidia and stop biting the hand that feeds it (no more binary blobs). Huge fan of NVIDIA hardware though, don't get me wrong. From Tegra to Tesla. Their binary blobs work great too in fact.

    4. Re:Interesting timing... by DeTech · · Score: 1

      I was in the same boat on my last rig (10yrs ago). I went all in on ati/amd merger during the bulldozer hype but luckily the driver support still has me smiling like a fan-boy.

    5. Re:Interesting timing... by Jeng · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We need more competition not less.

      Nvidia should buy VIA.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    6. Re:Interesting timing... by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      Intel needs to buy Nvidia, with all that cash it has, and put and put some sense into Nvidia and stop biting the hand that feeds it (no more binary blobs).

      Then there would be no more driver.

    7. Re:Interesting timing... by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      What?
      Intel has their drivers in the main tree. They work great. NVIDIA provides a binary blob that does not play well with others.

    8. Re:Interesting timing... by HarrySquatter · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Since when was Linux "the hand that feeds" NVIDIA? If it weren't for CAD and scientific computing people using Linux there would be no Linux drivers. And those groups mostly give fuck all about the drivers being open source.

    9. Re:Interesting timing... by unixhero · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Clearly Linux is feeding NVIDIA with a _platform_. Tegra is an architechture which will sell hundreds of thousands of units, benefiting NVIDIA immensely. It is a classic case of the tragedy of the commons, when a major player like Nvidia uses Linux as an engine of growth and gives little back. Yes, I know, they are providing the Tegra code upstream, so I guess it is kind if inacurate to use it as an example. In any case, any company with such a great success based around another entity's platform should provide some care and love back to that community. The one thing Linux/s needs is source code, and it is all in the interest of performance, usability, stability, interoptability; it's not asking for anything more. Yet, I do understand NVIDIA's conundrum. The driver has almost become an OS in itself because of the complexity of GPUs nowadays. I don't want to get too technical, because it is besides the point of this little post.

    10. Re:Interesting timing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sometimes it goes beyond that.

      Would you buy from a company that best fills needs, but has some practices that you strongly disagree with? What about if you can get something that's (~90%) as good from a competitor, but they're behaving in a manner that you want to encourage?

      It's not always so cut and dry.

    11. Re:Interesting timing... by John+Hasler · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > What?

      I believe that what he is getting at is that NVidia is still tied up in stupid "IP" licenses that might be revoked if they released source for their blobs or detailed specs for their chips.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    12. Re:Interesting timing... by John+Hasler · · Score: 2

      It is a classic case of the tragedy of the commons...

      No it isn't. Linux is not a scarce resource.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    13. Re:Interesting timing... by kthreadd · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What?
      Intel has their drivers in the main tree. They work great. NVIDIA provides a binary blob that does not play well with others.

      Great for Intel, I guess that's their way of doing business. It would be great if Nvidia did the same thing but they don't have to, that's their right. Nothing wrong with that, just use something else if that bothers you.

    14. Re:Interesting timing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The driver has almost become an OS in itself because of the complexity of GPUs nowadays.

      Linux in Linux?

    15. Re:Interesting timing... by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Good for you. I meant that to explain why intel buying nvidia would not end the linux driver.

    16. Re:Interesting timing... by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Linux developers however most certainly ARE scarce. And NVidia does little to help.

    17. Re:Interesting timing... by unixhero · · Score: 0

      thanks for the upvotes guys

    18. Re:Interesting timing... by V!NCENT · · Score: 1

      Impossible. The legal review takes a lot longer than that. HDMI open sourcing, for example, is taking... Ages! Although that is DRM (rights) stuff...

      --
      Here be signatures
    19. Re:Interesting timing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wow, thanks for clearing up the moral confusion. I'm going to go sell grandma to the baby-murderers for some heroin-laced bread now... because it kills the hunger so much better than any other bread! It really fills the need, you know?

    20. Re:Interesting timing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if it is, what about it? "Interesting" is all you got?

    21. Re:Interesting timing... by mrmeval · · Score: 2

      I did. I bought a Sony camera that at the time filled a need. Then the CCD failed and I find I'm fucked because Sony won't fix the known defect. It could make my dick hard, my body 20 and my eyesight 20/5 in each eye and I'd not touch if if it's know to be an evil company that is of questionable moral or ethical character.

      Shopping the market without intelligence is for fools.

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    22. Re:Interesting timing... by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Does AMD graphics do what you need them to? Do you wish to show businesses that supporting open specs is good for business? Then buy AMD, simple as that.

      In the end for those that wish to see openness supported you have to meet them halfway and give them numbers to show you are worth the money and effort and i think it would be damned hard to argue that AMD isn't doing everything they can to be as open as possible.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    23. Re:Interesting timing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that's GPLv2. Imagine with BSD ;-)

    24. Re:Interesting timing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      There is no dilemma you follow your priorities. If you prioritize good behavior before those 10% it's dead simple decision. If you on the other hand prioritize those 10% before good behavior then it's also a dead simple decision but you probably need to reevaluate your moral.

    25. Re:Interesting timing... by Telvin_3d · · Score: 2

      Hundreds of thousands of units benefiting NVIDIA immensely? If that is all Tegra is selling then Linux doesn't have a lot to offer. Some quick google puts the price of a Tegra chip in the $20-$25 range. Assuming that NVIDIA can claim $10 profit off each one (a high assumption) then sales of 500,000 only gets them $5m. That's not even a blip on the radar. That's not even a blip on the radar as a quarterly number. Monthly and it still wouldn't make the earnings report.

      If the Tegra sales numbers are anything less than tens of millions NVIDIA may as well kill the project. And if that's the best Linux has to offer...

    26. Re:Interesting timing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a retard.

    27. Re:Interesting timing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I consider the whole picture, and “practices” to be part of “needs”. So if they have bad practices, they by definition don’t fill the whole of my needs.

      I do the math: I roughly weigh the factors, and decide on final score.
      Yes this may take more time, but I like doing it, and I like to go the extra mile of doing it right. (The old programmer's perfectionist mind, you might say...)

    28. Re:Interesting timing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was too and then I realized that the drivers in recent years have actually become good and, unlike nvidia, don't *require* you to install a special control panel (although the default is to install one). These days, when I go AMD CPU, I go AMD graphics. When I go Intel CPU, I go nVidia graphics.

    29. Re:Interesting timing... by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

      Walmart

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    30. Re:Interesting timing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HPC. Intel will trounce nVidia with their open, upstream drivers and at-least-as-good-as (and probably much better) massively-parallel hardware.

      ATI is making sure it will not get any further damage than the strictly unavoidable from Intel Phi, in a way that nVidia cannot/won't.

    31. Re:Interesting timing... by davydagger · · Score: 1

      as stated elsewhere, I'm sure nVidia can write its own kernel and userland just fine.

      given nVidia runs very powerful GPU supercomputer clusters on linux, I'd say it'd be some preference. Its not like your going to port windows.

    32. Re:Interesting timing... by unixhero · · Score: 1

      That comment seems more like an Ad Hominem attack, because I think differently than you. Any success in the extreme hypercompetition which is computer processors, chips, chipsets and bleeding edge hardware is good for any company. So although that is a bleep on their radar, it is the CFO's radar. Remember the spillover effects throughout the organization. The learning that has taken place, the strain on the organization and the subsequent major success Tegra will be. So next time, please consider the bigger picture, take the holistic approach.

    33. Re:Interesting timing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is the the AMD/ATI graphics drivers (open or closed) are anywhere near 90% as good as the Nvidia ones.

    34. Re:Interesting timing... by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I don't know.

      I know ATI graphics did NOT - it's been a while since I've given them a chance.

      During the Rage II days I don't know how many screens I saw with the horizontal line that wouldn't update.
      Then I had a Radeon that died without reason and wouldn't even do 3D in Linux at the time. I replaced it with Nvidia, which not only worked with Linux but I was still dual booting back then, Alice and UT99 both looked better with it.
      While working on other people's since then I've had a driver nightmare or two with ATI - where Nvidia's "Unified Driver Architecture" just worked.

      When AMD bought ATI I asked the question in multiple places - Will AMD fix ATI or will ATI drag AMD down? Well, I know AMD CPU's are still great, still my first choice for a desktop. I'm still a bit disappointed I can't find an AMD powered mobile with the right balance of parts and features. After the ATI nightmares of the past I hesitate to give them another shot in the graphics world.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    35. Re:Interesting timing... by MSG · · Score: 1

      I know, they are providing the Tegra code upstream, so I guess it is kind if inacurate to use it as an example

      I don't think it is. The value of Linux should not be underestimated. NVidia is able to use that platform free of charge. Since the Tegra hardware isn't a discrete component, NVidia can't (or can't easily) make improvements in a module separate from the Linux kernel, and are obligated to distribute source. It's not unfair to believe that they would not otherwise do so. They meet the minimum requirements of the license, but the value that they receive from the Linux and Android development communities is far greater than their contribution.

      Saying that NVidia gives little back is pretty accurate, I think.

    36. Re:Interesting timing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. Support them by buying their hardware and the software will be developed by crowd sourcing. You pay now for more opportunity and flexibility in the future. I'm not sure how many people will (not unjustly) selfishly not want to take the "first hit". But someone has to for it to happen.

    37. Re:Interesting timing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rage II was introduced in the mid 90s, when nvidia had very poor (if any) linux support as well. And of course, no nvidia card has ever failed working in history.

    38. Re:Interesting timing... by diego.viola · · Score: 1

      I don't understand, Linux is licensed under the GPLv2, isn't nvidia violating the GPL with their blob here?

    39. Re:Interesting timing... by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I've actually gotten them bad out of the box, but I've never had one fail after I've started using it.

      Back when the Rage II was around I was using 3Dfx and Matrox on my desktops.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    40. Re:Interesting timing... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Sign up for the Tiger emails friend if you are looking for a laptop, they have been having some pretty crazy sales on AMD Fusion powered systems, such as An Aspire Quad for $400 without MIRs which if I wasn't already happy with my E350 EEE netbook I would be sorely tempted, thanks to turbocore those units can ramp up pretty decently when you are using only one or two thread and that unit has dual graphics, with both a discrete and the fusion APU, nice.

      And I can tell you that on the Windows front i was right there with you, ATI made great hardware but their software and drivers were just fucking TERRIBLE, they had the damned driver GUI tied to .NET of all things so if there was a problem you had to wonder, was it an ATI problem, was it a .NET problem, just a fucking mess but when AMD bought ATI and Nvidia burned me with bumpgate I can say the drivers became solid as a rock and the bang for the buck is just nuts. So I can't tell you on the Linux side other than when firing up the latest live CDs it all seems to "just work" on both my HD3xxx IGP and my HD4850 discrete, videos play smooth and the picture sharp.

      Look if it were me, you got a desktop, right? Go over to Geeks or Tiger and pick up a really cheap AMD graphics card and see how she goes. I've seen low end HD5xxx going for about $20 on Tiger and Geeks has an HD4770 for $43 and an HD3870 X2 for $63. Any of those cards should give you a good taste of what you'd be looking at if you went AMD and if it doesn't work as you'd like you're not really out nothing, just throw it back in the box and send it back or sell it on Craigslist. Here is a 5450 for $22 which at that price its not gonna be any big risk to your wallet. All I can tell you is what Phoronix has been saying which is the FOSS drivers are coming up by leaps and bounds and most of the distros are supporting both the discrete and the Fusions pretty well now.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    41. Re:Interesting timing... by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I could totally go for that Acer if I had the cash, I carry an Aspire One and I love it, my only complaint was it was nearly impossible to get bluetooth built in. I bought a replacement mini-PCI-express card.

      I ditched Windows before .NET came out - Windows2000 either didn't have a service pack or it was at service pack 1 at the time, I don't recall, but a number of factors lined up and I declared Windows a waste of hard drive space. I probably didn't use Windows for more than two months after the bad Radeon to Geforce 2 scenario.

      Right now I'm planning on getting a new TV before I get anything, I'm still on a CRT, but it's a really good Mitsubishi Diamatron so I'm in no real big hurry. When I do that I may build up an XBMC unit which I could try out the AMD approach on, probably built in. Seems like a safe place to experiment.

      --
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    42. Re:Interesting timing... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well if you want a cheap one check out the Fusion builds, especially the E350s, as you can often find them in a nice HTPC kit for like $100. And if you want to use XBMC then check out Open ELEC which has builds for the AMD Fusions that covers the E series as well as the newer A series chips. It is only 120Mb and has everything already to go, just install. I've built a couple of HTPCs using the E350s and although my customers went Win 7 HP I can tell you those chips do make for nice media centers, full 1080P and whisper quiet and only draw around 18w under load. again don't know how well it'll work under Linux as i only played with OpenELEC for a little while before installing Windows but it seemed damned nice.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  2. Re:fags by Wapiti-eater · · Score: 0

    Windows is for appliance operators. Ya see? Carries about as much cred, so why bother?

    --
    Senior NCO in the fight against entropy. I've seen things, man. Things no one should have to see.....
  3. Re:fags by kthreadd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Linux is for fags.

    Of course, everyone is free to use Linux. Even you.

  4. As It Should Be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Rock on! This is great news. I still don't think a lot of companies understand just how much penetration Linux and FOSS have. FOSS should be the norm not the exception. IMHO, software licenses that do not respect people over profit have no real use to me and I do my best to avoid them. I'm not a fanatic about not using proprietary software like some, but given a choice, I buy documented hardware and support people and companies that fuel the idea that people come before profit.

    NVIDIA should be shamed until they comply with providing enough specs so the FOSS community can write their own open software drivers.

    1. Re:As It Should Be by davydagger · · Score: 1

      Almost. They do nothing to impede F/OSS driver work, and some say secretly contribute.

      nouveau hit mainline kernel this year with a stable ABI. So its not like FOSS is in the complete dark.

  5. Exceptions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    the full Linux execution stack (compiler/runtime/kernel drivers) in open source form, except for one commercial third party piece (the C++ parser front end)

    Is this missing piece a proprietary parser of C++ for LLVM or a proprietary shader parser implemented in C++?

    Kudos to AMD. It is getting easier for me to imagine buying ATI based GPUs for my own use after ~10 years of NVidia cards. A full execution stack may lead to at least more stable drivers (via users debugging), if not more efficient. My #1 objection to ATI has been instability of Linux drivers.

    1. Re:Exceptions by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 4, Informative

      My guess is that it is probably the EDG C++ front end (Edison Design Group.) Aside from GCC and Microsoft's C/C++ compiler the EDG front end seems to be used by all the major C++ compilers (to manage the clusterfuck of C++ parsing.)

      Note: While I love C++ from a programmer's point of view, having worked on a professional C++ compiler, C++ makes we want to puke at the hack grammar and language design.

    2. Re:Exceptions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the full Linux execution stack (compiler/runtime/kernel drivers) in open source form, except for one commercial third party piece (the C++ parser front end)

      Is this missing piece a proprietary parser of C++ for LLVM or a proprietary shader parser implemented in C++?

      Kudos to AMD. It is getting easier for me to imagine buying ATI based GPUs for my own use after ~10 years of NVidia cards. A full execution stack may lead to at least more stable drivers (via users debugging), if not more efficient. My #1 objection to ATI has been instability of Linux drivers.

      They probably use a customized version of the EDG C/C++ Front-end for parsing OpenCL.

  6. Re:fags by DeTech · · Score: 2

    This is the best idea for an ad campaign I've ever heard for linux.

  7. What's an execution stack? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There. Yes, I'm a dumbass. Fine. Now, can someone please explain this? (beyond the trivial "A bunch of stuff that you use to run things.")

    1. Re:What's an execution stack? by shiftless · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm no expert either, but it sounds like the toolchain to build code which can run on the GPU. i.e. shaders. Hopefully the experts will chime in and correct me....

      I'd just like to say, as a die-hard NVidia fan, this will definitely cause me to take a second look at ATI's offerings. The main thing holding me back from considering them is their heretofore poor Linux compatibility. I run Windows 7 now, but I want to retain the option of Linux usage now or in the future. Good open source ATI drivers plus continued good quality products coming out of ATI would most likely tip me heavily towards ATI in the future.

    2. Re:What's an execution stack? by wonkavader · · Score: 2

      Ha Ha! This is double-whammy funny! Because 'let me google that for you' doesn't come up with the right answer. Which mean's this joker couldn't be bothered to google it before pasting a link.

  8. That's only the OpenCL stuff, right? by rrohbeck · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I didn't see any mention of opening the 3D graphics drivers or video acceleration. So the open compute code is going to call an opaque blob?

    --
    thegodmovie.com - watch it
    1. Re:That's only the OpenCL stuff, right? by whatajoke · · Score: 2

      I didn't see any mention of opening the 3D graphics drivers or video acceleration.

      AMD GPU have had open specifications for a long time now. The OpenCL backend based on llvm was recently committed by an AMD developer. Phoronix has been tracking these developments rather well. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA5MTk

      This LLVM back-end for R600g has been one of the items that AMD's open-source team has been working on for several months. In early December was when the R600g LLVM back-end was published. This LLVM implementation is needed for OpenCL on Radeon hardware, among other purposes.

  9. That settles it for me.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    That settles it for me. I'm buying AMD.

  10. It's OK to be Takei and use Linux by Picass0 · · Score: 0

    TSIA

  11. So... AMD... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So... AMD, thank you!

  12. Is this... by Lisias · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... "the finger effect"? :-)

    --
    Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    1. Re:Is this... by SalsaDoom · · Score: 5, Funny

      Lets get Linus to try it on government next!

      --
      "Computers will never truly be free until the last windows user is strangled with the entrails of the last mac user."
    2. Re:Is this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... "the finger effect"? :-)

      You've got your companies mixed up. Or maybe your fingers?

    3. Re:Is this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or vagina?

  13. Oh AMD, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    why ist thou seducing me with your open ways?

    Keep it up, AMD!!! Your good will, collaboration, and support towards the Open Source community is being noted and remembered each time I consider purchasing a new system!

    /linux exclusively, of course

    1. Re:Oh AMD, by loufoque · · Score: 1

      You mean being considered then discarded?

      On Linux, Nvidia is still clearly the best option as long as you're ok with proprietary drivers.

  14. Late to the party... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Nvidia did most of this with their cuda stuff already...

    CUDA Frontend: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA5OTU
    Nvidia PTX Backend: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA5MzM

    The missing nvidia part is currently provided by GDEV (the opensource device driver) https://github.com/shinpei0208/gdev

  15. Re:fags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You don't need to refer to yourself in the third person.

    I also don't need to refer to myself in the second person.

  16. I'm in by Tough+Love · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Way to make this decision easy. I was already convinced in principle, just not moving on it. Now I'm moving on it. Fusion FTW!

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  17. Mod up please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not sure whether he's correct or not, and this is the question I wanted answered after reading the summary

  18. Re:fags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My Harley-Davidson is customized with a gun holster and an entertainment system. It is running Linux just fine and can be made really loud as well.

  19. Re:fags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't need to refer to yourself in the third person.

    I also don't need to refer to myself in the second person.

    ... don't even need to refer to ...self in the first person.

  20. Re:fags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ooooh, lovely! Do you play "Dancing Queen" when you ride it?

  21. I wonder.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why this is not getting as good coverage as Linus giving the finger to nVidia, that's just his usual way of dealing with things, nothing special, right? Linus will give people/companies the finger if he feels the need to, people forget that he's not a business man, he's an engineer, and mighty good at that, he does not have to be very diplomatic if he does not want to, and he even gives a perfectly good explanation to why, in the very same lecture in which most people just focused on the finger.

    This on the other hand, is great news!

    People might bash the AMD open source graphics drivers, but what do they think? That when AMD releases source code it will MAGICALLY become very mature code in a matter of weeks? No, it is called development, which means that it will take time before it is fully matured.

    Besides, as I understand, it has still gone a lot faster than with the nouveau driver, which took years just to reverse engineer, and the AMD driver has reached about the same maturity (or has even surpassed the quality?) of the nouveau in ONLY 2-3 years?

    That's why I'm buying AMD next, because I know that the drivers are still going to be maintained and developed in the coming years.

  22. Re:fags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It never occurred to me that that's the reason I like it. Thanks for the insight.

  23. Re:fags by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, that's one of my favorite tunes, but I usually prefer something more louder, like a vuvuzela. I also mess up little towns in Colorado with my biker friends and shoot needlessly to the air while doing it. And my Linux installation shoots out loud music while we are at it. I also once met these four little boys in one of the towns who made us, and the dictionary to redefine us all. It was an eyeopener.

  24. The firmware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Start with licensing properly the firmware. All else builds on that. It's sine qua non.