Sale of Galaxy Nexus Banned in the US

Well they are both rectangular by Anonymous Coward · 2012-06-29 21:38 · Score: 5, Funny

And I once walked into a store and banged down hundreds of dollars for an iPad only to find once I got it home it was a Samsung Galaxy tablet. Perhaps the words on the box, the different software, the different colour, the different interface should have tipped me off, but heck, they were both RECTANGULAR with a BUTTON.

So judge Koh is protecting poor people like me, who desperately want an iPad but accidentally buy a competitor that out powers it, out functions it, comes in a wider range of varieties and is developing faster than it.

Incredible to think a single person can do so much good for the world and all without any bribe money!

Re:Well they are both rectangular by TemperedAlchemist · 2012-06-29 22:08 · Score: 5, Funny

Pah! Just wait until Apple catches wind that I own the patent for rectangular boxes!
Re:Well they are both rectangular by MrDoh! · 2012-06-29 22:12 · Score: 4, Informative

Think this is the closest Apple's come yet to going after core Google. It's the search patent that appears to have snagged them. If they get this, they get every android phone currently out there and serve a continual warning to every potential Android licensee that if they even think of entering the Phone Market, they WILL be sued out of existence. Don't think even MS back in the day was ever as obviously aggressive as this.
For something that I've always suspected started as a way to negotiate cheaper component prices out of Samsung, Apple's really stirred up a poo storm.
Samsung? Contacts be damned, now's the time to stop shipping anything to your competitor who only wants to see you destroyed the second they can replace you.
Apple started the nerf bat swinging, never know who it'll take out in the end.

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Waiting for an amusing sig.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by SomePgmr · 2012-06-29 22:42 · Score: 5, Insightful

Apparently the decision was based on, "Apple's claim to the patent to search multiple sources, which Apple says is the basis of Siri. [...] Judge Koh said 'Apple has articulated a plausible theory of irreparable harm [because] of long-term loss of market share and losses of downstream sales."
On the surface of it, it sounds awfully stupid to me. If I'm remembering correctly, "searching multiple sources" by voice query existed in Android devices first, no?
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/06/breaking-judge-grants-apple-an-injunction-against-the-galaxy-nexus/
Re:Well they are both rectangular by hairyfeet · 2012-06-29 22:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

Crap like this is why I've been saying for awhile people need to quit worrying about MSFT, which under Ballmer the only real skills they seem to have anymore is blowing money and shooting themselves in the face, and start worrying about Apple.
Just remember folks that Jobs before he died said he would happily spend his fortune to "Nuke Android" and I wouldn't be surprised if Cook hasn't forgotten those words. I'm sure he knows with Ballmer at the helm MSFT isn't a threat, as Zune and Kin and WinPhone 7 made quite clear, but high end Android devices with faster refreshes and newer and more powerful hardware IS very much a threat. I have a feeling its gonna get a whole lot nastier and I agree, if I was Samsung I wouldn't sell them so much as a screw.

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ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by styrotech · 2012-06-29 23:04 · Score: 4, Insightful

Well the flipside of that argument could be: if they don't know enough about the iPad to tell the difference, how do they/we really know they wanted an "iPad" instead of "a tablet" anyway?
They could just be using iPad as the only name they know of for a new fangled flat computer. And even then - if "iPad" is the only name they know of to ask for in the store or the only name to look for on the box, why weren't they sold one?
If similar looks are really such an issue, wouldn't these people who just grab something in the store (without asking for an iPad or looking for "iPad" on the box) be in danger of accidentally walking out with an electronic picture frame or something? Should the judge get involved there too?
This is all moot though - from the sound of things it was Siri search patents rather than looks that are behind the injunction.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by SternisheFan · 2012-06-29 23:05 · Score: 5, Interesting

Did'ja ever notice how when a bully is confronted with the truth, they get louder. They start to attempt to intimidate by any means at their disposal. When confronted with facts, they get confused, and don't know what to do as their audience catches on and begins to drift away. That's when they become more desperate and turn to larger bullying tactics. Then the bullied either stands their ground or meekly lets the bully win. There are times when the best course of action for the bullied is to walk away, and hopefully live to fight another day. IMHO, for this is not one. Apple has been losing their ardent followers for some time now. People have seen android as a very viable alternative, and are switching over. Apple knows this, or they wouldn't be resorting to these bully tactics. I root for the underdog in life, and love it when the bullies lose.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by JustOK · 2012-06-29 23:10 · Score: 5, Funny

Ford sues GM cuz "their's looks like a box with wheels and it goes vrooom vrooom, just like ours. It cornfuses people, make 'em stop."

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rewriting history since 2109
Re:Well they are both rectangular by oztiks · 2012-06-29 23:18 · Score: 4, Informative

"It's no coincidence that Samsung's latest products look a lot like the iPhone and iPad, from the shape of the hardware to the user interface and even the packaging," an Apple spokeswoman said in an email. "This kind of blatant copying is wrong and, as we've said many times before, we need to protect Apple's intellectual property when companies steal our ideas."
Oh yes because Apple invented phones, calendars, address books, web browsers and SMS messaging tools. I'm sure don't believe their own shit, rather they see this as a means to delay successful delpoyment of a competitive product.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by AmiMoJo · 2012-06-29 23:21 · Score: 5, Interesting

Apple is in danger of triggering Armageddon. Google has been fairly good natured so far, but if they decide to start a war things can only get worse for the consumer.
We need to put a stop to this. Patent reform is the only way.

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const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Anonymous Coward · 2012-06-29 23:46 · Score: 2, Informative

Webcrawler with OS/2 Warp 4 speech recognition in 1996?
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Shadow+of+Eternity · 2012-06-29 23:50 · Score: 5, Funny

Shouting to a room of grad students or interns?

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A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Re:Well they are both rectangular by ozmanjusri · 2012-06-29 23:52 · Score: 2

Apple is in danger of triggering Armageddon. Google has been fairly good natured so far, but if they decide to start a war things can only get worse for the consumer.
I doubt it'll affect consumers much.
Apple's likely to have a bit to worry about if they take on Google though, especially now Google have Moto designs like the E 690in their hands.
https://www.google.com/search?q=motorola-e690&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=cOfuT9DDHqSXiQfC0-iADQ&ved=0CFYQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=1040

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"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Sulphur · 2012-06-29 23:54 · Score: 4, Funny

Apple is in danger of triggering Armageddon. Google has been fairly good natured so far, but if they decide to start a war things can only get worse for the consumer.
We need to put a stop to this. Patent reform is the only way.
Patent reform from low earth orbit, its the only way to be sure.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Lorien_the_first_one · 2012-06-30 00:04 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'll go one further and say patent abolition is the only way to stop it.

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The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by MickyTheIdiot · 2012-06-30 00:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

I am not sure about Armageddon, but Google has money and this is a solid, concrete example of patents as a true hinderance to the advancement of the economy.
In this case maybe we play the fucked up short-term game to get a needed long-term change.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Anonymous Coward · 2012-06-30 00:26 · Score: 5, Insightful

Forget the absurdity of the similarity claims and the who's done it first angle... this phrase from TFA should be enough to draw some conclusions:
Koh granted the injunction after Apple argued that the Galaxy Nexus phone caused it irreparable harm due to long-term market-share loss and "losses of downstream sales," according to The Next Web.
This is simply anti-capitalism stated on a single sentence. Basically, from what I grasp, the idea is "we need to avoid that competitor's action because we would lose money if competition were to happen".
I intended to throw a joke to mock the US for this kind of reasoning in the legal system, but the situation is actually kinda depressing and worrying when one assess where the current trends are taking the entire country. Although I'm not from the US, it makes me pause just thinking about the long term consequences of these changes.
Maybe someone smarter than me could figure out what we'll have in the future, since capitalism might join socialism in the History books.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by SomePgmr · 2012-06-30 00:56 · Score: 4, Insightful

Looks like the file date is 2000 and the issue date is in 2005. Am I looking in the wrong place?
The funny thing is, none of the actual heavy lifting in this patent appears to be theirs. It's all in the cited patents held by other companies. All they appear to have said here was, "we're patenting the idea of putting a textbox in Mac OS to do this stuff everyone else already invented and patented".
I'm a little amazed that such a thing can be considered a valid invention. It reads like, "Well John over here invented the car, but I'm going to patent the idea of painting it blue as if that's an invention".
But I'm not an attorney... I guess we'll see how it all shakes out.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Grieviant · 2012-06-30 01:16 · Score: 2

Ah yes, another unbiased tidbit from the guy who last week posted a thread about his "genuine concern" that the patent system was under attack by FRAND patent holders, only to be forced into spam-trolling his own thread because not everyone agreed.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Anne+Thwacks · 2012-06-30 01:24 · Score: 2

No need to abolish patents. Just to acknowledge that "if you can implement the patent without access to the written description, them it is obvious to anyone sufficiently skilled in the art" and thus invalid.
However, the WTO should blast America into orbit for allowing this kind of injunction, which is clearly intended to prevent foreign competition. Yay, lets have a trade war. Korea can ban the import of American beer and DVDs in retaiation!

--
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Anonymous Coward · 2012-06-30 01:24 · Score: 5, Funny

On the surface of it, it sounds awfully stupid to me
Stupid or not, Surface is a registered trademark of Microsoft - pay up.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Piata · 2012-06-30 01:33 · Score: 5, Funny

This is the best car analogy in the history of Slashdot.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by mrchaotica · 2012-06-30 01:34 · Score: 5, Insightful

This is simply anti-capitalism stated on a single sentence. Basically, from what I grasp, the idea is "we need to avoid that competitor's action because we would lose money if competition were to happen".
Patents are inherently anti-competitive. In fact, limiting competition is their entire function.
(I almost said "their entire purpose," but then corrected myself: the "purpose" of patents is to "promote the progress of science and the useful arts." Whether patents' purpose and function jive with each other is another issue entirely...)

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"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Antimatter3009 · 2012-06-30 01:36 · Score: 4, Insightful

If this gets upheld, Apple will be able to get an injunction on every Android phone because this is a core OS feature. I'd say that affects consumers. Plus, it seems like there's a pretty good chance that Google could find some patent between theirs and Motorola's that applies to the iPhone, which could lead to a counter ban. Maybe (hopefully) it won't get that far, but this is the patent armageddon that people have been worrying about with all these lawsuits.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by mark-t · 2012-06-30 02:15 · Score: 2

"if you can implement the patent without access to the written description, them it is obvious to anyone sufficiently skilled in the art" and thus invalid.
I understand where you are coming form with this point of view, but that also means that anything which is independently invented by two or more people can't be patented.

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File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Smauler · 2012-06-30 02:45 · Score: 3, Insightful

That's kind of the point. The entire purpose of patents is to protect inventions made by someone which would not have been released to the public otherwise. If the patented invention could be invented by someone else anyway, the patent is purely a money making exercise, and not in the public good.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by AngryDeuce · 2012-06-30 02:56 · Score: 2, Interesting

They could just be using iPad as the only name they know of for a new fangled flat computer.
This. I saw it myself with iPod; working at CompUSA back in the day, I'd say 75% of people would come in looking for an 'iPod' and then ask me why I was only showing them the ones Apple made and not the Sansui's, Samsungs, Zunes, and all the other branded ones. When I'd point out that they asked for an iPod, they'd respond "Yeah, but I don't necessarily just want the Apple iPods...these other iPods are much cheaper" while they're sitting there with an iRiver in their hands.
I would have to educate them that iPod is a specific product only made by Apple, and what they were actually looking for was an MP3 player, or later, when they started being able to play video and such, a digital media player. Still, a decent percentage would respond "Yeah, but everyone just calls them iPods anyway", and then I would have to fight the overwhelming urge to tell them, "No, actually, only fucking ignoramuses call them all iPods."
Among the technologically illiterate, iPod is pretty much a genericized trademark at this point. It doesn't even stop there; I've had people use the term iPhone to describe any smartphone and, yes, iPad to describe any tablet, albeit not nearly as much as the iPod thing, but that's just a matter of time, honestly.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by dbIII · 2012-06-30 02:58 · Score: 2

American beer
Americans make beer?
Come on now, even the French make better beer (Louis Pasteur was the inventor of modern Lager).
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Pieroxy · 2012-06-30 03:04 · Score: 3, Insightful

There are other things to consider. Would you be happy, as a CEO, to work your butt off 24/7 for years to invent something great, and just when it catches up and start making real money, see Google make the *very exact same thing* (with a different logo) on a much much much larger scale (because they're so much bigger) and make you go back into mothingness?
I guess not.
Patents are here for a reason, and that reason is perfectly valid. Of course, the process can be perfected. For example, I think patents should be adapted to the field they apply to. For instance, software patents should last 5 years max.
But remove patents altogether and all hell will break lose.

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Write boring code, not shiny code!
Re:Well they are both rectangular by atriusofbricia · 2012-06-30 03:48 · Score: 5, Insightful

If this gets upheld, Apple will be able to get an injunction on every Android phone because this is a core OS feature. I'd say that affects consumers. Plus, it seems like there's a pretty good chance that Google could find some patent between theirs and Motorola's that applies to the iPhone, which could lead to a counter ban. Maybe (hopefully) it won't get that far, but this is the patent armageddon that people have been worrying about with all these lawsuits.
On the contrary, this is exactly what needs to happen. Google should search their patents and find every single one that could apply to every single Apple device. Once they've built their case they should, without a seconds warning, nuke Apple with everything. Seek injunctions against Apple's entire business. Once granted, bring them to the table to sort all this stupidity out.
It's either that or everyone but Apple suffers a death of a thousand cuts.
Apple has long since passed the worst of MSFT's evil.

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I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Imagix · 2012-06-30 03:55 · Score: 2

Yep. If multiple people can independently develop the same solution to the problem, then that would be a fairly strong argument that the solution is fairly obvious.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by Stickerboy · 2012-06-30 04:00 · Score: 4, Informative

The problem is, everything can be invented twice...
That's the whole point of reverse engineering. And it's not a problem. It's a common sense limitation on patents - if it takes your competition all of 30 seconds to reverse engineer your software patent for X, without seeing the code or the specifications for it, the patent isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Obviousness.

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Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by citizenr · 2012-06-30 05:13 · Score: 4, Insightful

if I was Samsung I wouldn't sell them so much as a screw.
You'd shoot yourself in the foot for banning your biggest customer. Hopefully, that's not *your* revenue stream we're talking about, so that you can easily say you wouldn't sell them a screw.
Hint: If Sammy drops Apple as a customer, they'd need a major restructuring and they'd also need something to do with the 100 plants they have serving Apple.
Famous last words of Walmart suppliers before they go out of business replaced by in store brand.

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Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by HiThere · 2012-06-30 11:18 · Score: 2

Correction:
the stated "purpose" of patents is to "promote the progress of science and the useful arts
I'm a bit too cynical to believe that the actual implementation is that far from the stated purpose by accident.

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I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Well they are both rectangular by mrchaotica · 2012-06-30 14:58 · Score: 2

They seemed to work well enough back in the 18th and 19th centuries. (Then again, Ben Franklin never patented any of his inventions -- the Franklin Stove, bifocals, etc. -- so maybe he was skeptical from the beginning.)

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"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by ozmanjusri · 2012-06-29 21:42 · Score: 5, Interesting

Slide to unlock? Unified search bar?

I wonder, do the engineers and techs working at Apple feel ashamed all this trolling?

I know it's management and legal who make the decisions, but still...

--
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."

Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by khipu · 2012-06-29 22:05 · Score: 5, Insightful

Take a look at both the outer design and software of Samsung's phones before and after the iPhone and say with a straight face that Samsung didn't copy at least some elements from Apple.
Who cares? It's fine to copy elements from other devices. It's fine to make look-alike and work-alike devices of other successful devices. That's how progress is made in high tech.
And Apple itself copied most of the iPhone design elements, and much of its functionality from other companies, including key features like desktop sync, MP3 sync, app stores, launchers, and many more. If such copying weren't allowed, there would be no iPhone.
What makes Apple's behavior so wrong and destructive is that they copy liberally from others and then turn around and try to monopolize the market with bad patents.
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by Artefacto · 2012-06-29 22:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

Whether their they look similar or whether Samsung copied Apple's design ideas is completely irrelevant. There's no general protection against "copying ideas".
It's well established that "look and feel" are not protected by copyright (see Apple vs. Microsoft), so they've turned instead to these doubtful patents to stifle competition. Even if these trivial patents are in fact valid (and having one held invalid takes years and millions of dollars and relatively onerous standards of evidence), they're arguably an abuse of the system originally designed to protect other sorts of inventions.
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by IamTheRealMike · 2012-06-29 22:19 · Score: 5, Interesting

But that doesn't explain why their UI, external design, and OS suddenly became indistinguishable.
Have you actually used a Galaxy Nexus? I have one in my pocket right now. It looks nothing like an iPhone. The physical design and the way the OS looks and feels are entirely different. Not only is the design different, the hardware is superior in many ways. My friends routinely get me to take photos at parties because in low lighting conditions the GN camera seems to do a better job than the iPhone.
This is the most stupid decision yet. The GN has a very distinct design to the iPhone.
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by scsirob · 2012-06-29 22:23 · Score: 5, Insightful

Gosh. Wow. Years ago all there was were tiny little screens and no-one could economically produce larger ones with sensible resolution and decent touch functionality. Now there are dozens of manufacturers capable of producing a 4" - 5" LCD with good touch functionality. Some of the technology making that possible will be covered by patents, and perhaps rightfully so.
Now give this 4" touch LCD to ten designers and ask them to design a phone around that screen. Do you really think they will all be very different? Sure, some will have a keyboard, some will have one or two buttons, and some will have none. How is that innovation?
If your view would be accepted then the first to come out with a 4-wheeled car owns the design and everyone else has to pick a different number of wheels, or a totally different wheel configuration (two on the side, one front, one back perhaps?). And we would all still be having bulky big TV's and monitors, because Sony or B&O or Philips happened to be the first to come out with a flat screen and they would own the design.

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To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by MrDoh! · 2012-06-29 22:26 · Score: 5, Informative

JooJoo Tablet came out before the iPad was even announced I believe. I keep hearing 'well, there wasn't anything like the iPad before the iPad came out' but there were devices that worked like it (though cheap and bad Chinese Android tablets), and tablets that /looked/ like the iPad (JooJoo tablet).
Samsung had similar designs in other places, I don't think it's a stretch of imagination to use those same designs in your own products, that someone else just happens to have also used. Though even then, hold a Samsung Android Tablet and an Apple tablet, and the difference is obvious.

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Waiting for an amusing sig.
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-06-29 22:30 · Score: 4, Informative

Everybody stands on the shoulders of giants, even Apple.
Nokia video 2006 (slide to unlock, gestures)
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Here-is-how-Nokia-imagined-touchscreen-phones-in-2006_id28668/
Samsung F700 (Korean design patent, December 2006)
http://gizmodo.com/235112/apple-iphone-vs-samsung-f700-which-is-touchscreenier
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by Antarius · 2012-06-29 22:32 · Score: 3, Insightful

That's not an uncommon tactic with Korean manufacturers, however.

I once worked on some high-quality, German engineered washing machines. It was discovered that, rather than spend hundreds of thousands on R&D, LG Electronics bought one of these units, disassembled it and copied it feature-for-feature albeit with minor design modifications.

The result? A washer that boasted the same features, yet "walked" across the floor during the spin cycle.

There were no legal breaches by LG in cleanrooming like that. I guess Samsung just pushed the envelope a bit far in the aesthetics department.
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-06-29 22:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

So you've never used it then?
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by mellon · 2012-06-29 23:11 · Score: 4, Insightful

So what? That's how technology goes: good design costs, so you start with good enough, and iterate to good. It's worth noting that the OpenMoko phone, ab open source phone, also very similar to the iPhone, was under development and probably would have come out before the iPhone if they'd had more money. Trade secret protection is not a defense against independent development, and rumors don't change that.
The fact is that the market was primed for devices like the iPhone and iPad when they came out. The parts had gotten cheap enough. The iPhone is a great product, and the iPad is a great product, but neither product was a surprise, and neither product gives Apple the rights to a monopoly on that form factor.
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by ozmanjusri · 2012-06-29 23:35 · Score: 5, Insightful

The first time I saw an iPhone, i bet the bloke who was with me that Apple had bought Mizi Research's Prizm Linux stack. http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Korean-Linux-smartphone-stack-achieves-new-release/
I lost the bet of course.
But to anyone who was involved with mobile devices at the time, the precursors of Apple's designs were clear; they took bits from PalmOS Cobalt, Prizm, Maemo and others.
As far as the physical design of the phone goes, it's all about fashion. Before about 2006, smartphones were all silver or grey, had a curved lower "chin" where the button cluster lived and still-curved but flatter top. By late 2006 though, most phones marketed as stylish (LG Prada, Samsung Chocolate & F700 etc) were dark or black, becoming much more squared off and had minimalist button designs.
I think Apple did well, they designed an iconic phone with components like processors and capacitive screens that were just becoming available at reasonable prices. However, I have no doubt if the iPhone hadn't been released, there would still be dozens of similar looking phones on the market, because that's where fashion and technology was taking them.
Apple's been clever to ride that fashion, but that doesn't mean they're entitled to a free ride.

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"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by Cederic · 2012-06-29 23:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

I don't give a flying fuck whether Apple is a patent troll or not.
Apple is using a broken system to prevent competition. Frankly so are Samsung, Motorola, Nokia and other portable device manufacturers.
The patent system is broken. It needs fixing. It's inhibiting innovation, constraining consumer choice and damaging the economy.
Apple are merely the poster childs for everything that's bad with it.
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by IamTheRealMike · 2012-06-29 23:47 · Score: 2

At what point did I say my friends all had the 4S? They have "iPhones" and I don't really know or care about the actual specs. All I know is that if we're in a bar or club in the evening, their cameras tend to take washed out or under-lit photos and mine doesn't. That isn't my opinion. It's theirs.
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by Grudge2012 · 2012-06-30 01:26 · Score: 2

JooJoo Tablet came out before the iPad was even announced I believe.

Well, no, the JooJoo never came out. It was never shipped, you could not buy one. And the iPad was designed long before it came out, look at this Community Design patent from 2004 and tell me this "Handheld computer" isn't the iPad.
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by khipu · 2012-06-30 01:40 · Score: 3, Insightful

When everyone can just sit back and minimize their costs by not innovating, instead only copying others as necessary to offset competitive advantages, then nobody innovates
Look at what happened to the companies Apple copied their major technologies from: Xerox, Palm, Diamond, Psion, Nokia, AT&T, etc. They are largely history. So are many of the small apps developers that innovated in the mobile space only to get copied by Apple. Those are the people who actually spent lots of money and effort on innovation, they just didn't manage to compete against Apple's design and marketing juggernaut.
So, don't pretend that these patents and lawsuits Apple keeps winning are rewarding the innovators. The innovators have already gone out of business. What Apple's patents are rewarding is a ruthless company that "shamelessly steals" (a direct Steve Jobs quote) other people's great ideas and doesn't invest a dime in research itself. And shameless stealing is not something we want to reward.
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by khipu · 2012-06-30 01:44 · Score: 5, Insightful

Progress in technology is made by copying what is successful and then improving on it. Forcing companies to start from scratch and break convention and compatibility in everything hinders progress.
And copying is exactly how the iPhone improved on what was there before: Apple largely cloned Palm's functionality and UI, reused their OS that was derived from Mach and Smalltalk, and added a smattering of Nokia and Symbian into the mix.
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by Monoman · 2012-06-30 01:58 · Score: 2

What makes Apple's behavior so wrong and destructive is that they copy liberally from others and then turn around and try to monopolize the market with bad patents.
THIS!

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Keep the Classic Slashdot.
Re:Patent trolling is the new iWhite... by Clueless+Nick · 2012-06-30 04:12 · Score: 2

"Historically, imitation has frequently been proposed as the central mechanism mediating the reproduction, spread, intergenerational transmission and stabilization of human cultural forms, population-specific behavioral traditions found in groups of non-human primates, or both"
-Sylvia's recipe: The role of imitation and pedagogy in the transmission of human culture
http://www.ceu.hu/node/7740

--
Chat with other atheists http://secularchat.org

The rest of the world does not care by Anonymous Coward · 2012-06-29 21:42 · Score: 5, Insightful

Well - pity for those in the US, they wont get the new stuff now...

Fortunately the rest of the world can enjoy all those things that are forbidden in the US. Seems the US is no longer the place to get your new stuff.
Now I am the last one to say anything about the quality or something, but at least the rest of the rest of the world has a free choice.

Re:The rest of the world does not care by brezel · 2012-06-29 21:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

it's really sad to see what capitalism is doing to a country that had such high goals when i was first created. now it seems mostly you will get incarcerated, sued, beaten up or criminalized for things that are perfectly normal in the rest of the free world.
i think it's really cynical of american polititians to even use the word "freedom" in their campaigns since it has basically lost all meaning due to the entanglement of business, military and politics.
Re:The rest of the world does not care by bhcompy · 2012-06-29 22:03 · Score: 2, Informative

Err, patents aren't "capitalism".
Re:The rest of the world does not care by khipu · 2012-06-29 23:55 · Score: 2

There have been plenty of lawsuits and injunctions based on Apple patent and design claims in Europe as well, and as a consequence, there are many Samsung devices you can't get in Europe either.
Re:The rest of the world does not care by khipu · 2012-06-29 23:56 · Score: 2

If that's what you believe, you really are totally out of touch with what's going on in the world.

So, before you start developing a new product ... by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2012-06-29 21:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

. . . you need to engage your legal department, if you are big enough to have one, to verify that the product won't get bogged down in long, drawn-out, legal battles.

It used to be that the work in the lab was most important. Now work in the legal department is more important than R&D.

Sad.

--
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!

Sensationalist submission is sensationalist. by gallondr00nk · 2012-06-29 21:46 · Score: 5, Informative

"Is this the beginning of the end for Android?"

Don't be so fucking stupid.

Is this the beginning of the end for Android? by wild_quinine · 2012-06-29 21:46 · Score: 5, Insightful

From TFS:

"Is this the beginning of the end for Android?"

No, it's the beginning of the end for Apple.

Re:Is this the beginning of the end for Android? by Lorien_the_first_one · 2012-06-29 23:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

Those who can't innovate, litigate. Seems like that would be Apple.

--
The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
Re:Is this the beginning of the end for Android? by virtigex · 2012-06-30 00:10 · Score: 2

No, Oracle's Java lawsuit was the beginning of the end for Android, remember. Since then, Android has been limping along mortally wounded. I'm sure this is crushing coup de grâce.

Support your local underdogs by allcoolnameswheretak · 2012-06-29 21:47 · Score: 5, Insightful

Stuff like this makes me want to buy a Samsung device right now, simply out of spite for these agressive, bullshit patent practices that limit competition and my choices as a consumer.
Also, I have this built-in genetic disposition of always wanting to support the underdog.

Re:Support your local underdogs by fightinfilipino · 2012-06-29 22:35 · Score: 4, Insightful

speak for yourself.
the injunction against the Galaxy is precisely that: an injunction. the underlying patent case has not yet been decided before the court. approving the injunction means that the suing party has, at first glance, met their evidentiary burden to move forward with the case. but the case itself still must be decided, and such cases can take up to a year or more to work themselves out. meanwhile, Apple can enjoy the "fruits" of reduced competition. don't kid yourself: that doesn't benefit anyone but Apple.
and with how specious software patents can be, we should ALL be wary of lawsuits whose primary effect is to stifle competitors not in the market, but out of it. doesn't matter if it's Apple, Samsung, Google, or any other party; this sort of lawsuit stinks any way you look at it.
this is not a win for Apple. this is not a win for Samsung/Google. worst of all, though, this is not a win for the consumer.
Re:Support your local underdogs by realityimpaired · 2012-06-29 22:51 · Score: 2

I thought I made that clear - they're abusing FRAND patents. In my humble opinion, any company that abuses FRAND patents is the worst sort of offender, truly intent on stifling competition within an industry and guilty of the worst sort of anti-competitive behaviour deserving of swift and severe punishment from whatever trade organization can take action against them. If a company agrees to include their patented technology in an industry standard under FRAND terms and then renegs on those FRAND obligations, they are doing more harm to competition within an industry any any company possibly could. That, imho, makes them the true villains.
There's nothing in FRAND that says they have to give it away, only that they have to be reasonable with their licensing terms. The FRAND terms that *most* of the industry seems to have agreed on is "you don't sue us, we don't sue you". Apple is the one that doesn't like those terms, even though they were offered them.
Re:Support your local underdogs by allcoolnameswheretak · 2012-06-29 22:58 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'm not an Apple hater. All I know is that if I wanted to by a Samsung in the U.S. right now, I couldn't, thanks to Apple. And Apple did the same thing in Germany some time ago. Truly, I don't know alot about the legal background on these patent wars. But it seems to me that Apple, amongst other companies, is bringing these fights to a new level which wasn't there before, and that that isn't a good thing for me. Did TV, car, microwave, or wearing glasses manufacturers get sued and their products barred from the market on the whim of a competitor in the past? Not that I'm aware of.
I don't have any kind of smartphone yet, and in fact I was still weighing my options. I was leaning towards an Android device because I could code my own apps for it in Java, but alot of people are telling me how Apple is better, so I was still pretty much undecided. The fact that Apple is now twisting the market in its favor doesn't make me happy.
Re:Support your local underdogs by mellon · 2012-06-29 23:21 · Score: 2

Dude, I adore Apple. I've been buying Apple products since MacOS 10.1 came out. I switched to a Google Nexus a couple of years ago after really enjoying my iPhone when Apple discontinued support for the iPhone when I was still in contract. This is just downright abusive behavior, and it continues: my iPad is also no longer supported as of iOS 6. The reason people are pissed off at Apple is that they have gotten too big for their breeches and started to abuse their customers. So the new intelligence test for Apple customers is, how much more of this are you willing to put up with?
Re:Support your local underdogs by whisper_jeff · 2012-06-29 23:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

You switched to an Android device because Apple stops supporting technology after _THREE_ years??? Are you joking?
Say whatever you want about Apple but they support their tech a HELL of a lot longer than Android manufacturers who often aren't utilizing the latest version of Android the day the device hits the shelves, let along a couple months later and most certainly not after _THREE YEARS_.
And before anyone points it out, I realize that's not Google's fault - it's the manufacturers - but to state you switched from an iOS device to an Android device because of "lack of support" is absolutely laughable.
Re:Support your local underdogs by realityimpaired · 2012-06-30 00:33 · Score: 2

That's not even vaguely true. Not even a little bit. The terms that most companies use is "we would rather not spend cash so how about we work out a cross-licensing deal for some of our patents". Apple, on the other hand a) has plenty of cash to pay licensing fees and b) would rather develop a competitive edge over their competition that differentiates them. Thus, they don't want to cross license - they just want to cut a check _AS IS THEIR RIGHT_. The amount being asked by Samsung and Motorola are what they consider to be unfair and unreasonable and are inherently discriminatory since they specifically target Apple.
They were still offered an option that would not have cost them anything out of pocket, and they rejected it. Samsung et. al. expecting to be paid for their work is not unreasonable, and IMO, they've gone *well* beyond what I would consider fair pricing by offering Apple an option that would have cost them nothing. Apple are the ones who rejected a fair offer.
Besides, if Samsung *really* wanted to be anti-competitive to Apple, they could simply decide that they're not going to sell LCD panels to Apple any more. There's nothing illegal about choosing not to do business with Apple, and if they did it, Apple would no longer be able to offer "Retina" displays on any of their equipment. You do realize that most of the hardware in an iPhone is manufactured by Samsung, and that it's only in the last few months that LG has been able to manufacture displays approaching the pixel density that Samsung has? Nobody else can do it yet. Samsung pulling out right about now could have a devastating effect on Apple's Back-to-school/Christmas product availability, as I'd be surprised if LG has enough capacity to meet the demand it would create yet.
BTW, there are those who would argue that something as obvious as including a search bar on the home screen of a phone shouldn't be patentable, and that if it is patentable, it should be included in FRAND as well.... That is what this injunction is over, you realize.... Apple doesn't like that other people are putting a search bar on the home screen (and it's not even required as part of the home screen, it's an app that's available), and so they are suing for a stop sell on Google's product. How is that *not* anti-competitive in your world?
Re:Support your local underdogs by mellon · 2012-06-30 04:44 · Score: 2

Less than two years, not three. I got an iPhone 3G the day it was released, with a two-year contract, and it was out of support before the contract ended.
I agree with you that if we were comparing non-Google Android phones to Apple phones, I would still be out to lunch. Non-google Android phones suck—the only way to use Android and like it is on a Google device, or to root your Android device and install an open source build like Cyanogenmod. Otherwise it's like a windows preinstall—loaded up with crapware.
But that's actually why Android is a win. With iOS, once your phone is out of the support stream, that's the end of it. With Android, if the manufacturer's support sucks, you can root your phone and install an open source version (if you bought carefully in the first place, of course). With Google Nexus phones, it's really easy, but it can be done with a lot of non-Google phones too.
I think that Android's UI needs a lot of fine-tuning, and that Apple's is better. But UI isn't everything. I do not appreciate being forced onto a 2 year upgrade cycle. For me, this is a deal-breaker, because it means that the phone is useless once I'm done with it, even if I upgrade every two years. The lockdown on the iPhone prevents it from being repurposed once it's been obsoleted by Apple.

Is this the beginning of the end for Android? by GbrDead · 2012-06-29 21:56 · Score: 5, Insightful

No, but it is somewhere in the middle of the end of the USA as a technological leader.

Fuck Apple! by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · 2012-06-29 21:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

Fuck Apple. I hope Apple dies a horrible death.

Re:Fuck Apple! by Issarlk · 2012-06-29 22:47 · Score: 2

Not sure about this... How many RIM or Nokia devices did Samsung ban via an injunction during the last few years?
Re:Fuck Apple! by andydread · 2012-06-30 01:52 · Score: 2

False equivalence much? Apple started this whole thing by treatening to sue and suing other mobile manufacturers. Microsoft jumped in right after they saw what Apple was doing. They threatened to sue Nokia. Nokia took the threat seriously and sued first.. They threatened to sue Motorola. Motorola took the threat seriously and sued first. They threatened HTC and Samnsung. HTC and Samsung told them to go away and so Apple sued them. Look Apple started this. Everyone knows this. Blaming other companies for not rolling over simply trying to defend them selves when Apple is the clear agressor here is either an excercise in whitewashing this hole issue or an attempt to spread blame. Both totally ridiculous.

Patent abuse -- by the goose and the gander by Compaqt · 2012-06-29 21:59 · Score: 2

Survey says:

As CNET's Roger Cheng has explained, the idea "is based on the principle that fair licensing of intellectual property is often needed because sometimes certain ideas and patents just need to be shared for everything to work together properly"

I just wonder if things would work better if Apple Corp. might deign to share the color black with us mere mortals, who have to put up with non-black smartphones with razor sharp corners (sometimes with greater or less than 4 sides!).

--
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog

NutJobs ... by giorgist · 2012-06-29 22:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

Geez is there any reason not to address him that way, his legacy is becoming that of some evil villain that has triggered a doomsday device full of lawers. It strikes me that the US is becoming less and less relevant ... as the Google IO showed, it is the third world countries that is where most of the action is happening.

And the war is on... by Areyoukiddingme · 2012-06-29 22:02 · Score: 5, Insightful

I dunno about the rest of you, but I'm getting a definite scorched earth feel these days. The patent Cold War is over. The Patent Hot War is now on. Sadly for the general sentiment around here, it's unlikely that anyone will do anything to fix, dismantle, or otherwise create a permanent solution to the problem of patents in general. Why not? Because these wars are going to create patent lawyer dynasties. We're talking Rockefeller money here. We're talking "Excuse me, Mr. Carnegie, but you're going to have to shift down at the table at the Old Boys Club to make room for Messrs. Dewie, Cheatum, and Howe." Laws are created by lawyers. As far as they're concerned, they've already 'fixed' the system perfectly. In every sense of the word.

Boycott Apple by dmesg0 · 2012-06-29 22:02 · Score: 5, Informative

Please explain to all your non-techie friends and family what Apple is doing, and why they shouldn't ever touch any Apple product until they change their way.
It's very easy, I already prevented sale of a at least a few iphones.

Disclaimer: I'm not working for Google, Samsung or any other mobile related company. I'm just disgusted by Apple, and boycotting is the only way to stop them.

Re:Boycott Apple by fufufang · 2012-06-29 22:32 · Score: 2

I think Apple is destroying the future of the tech industry.
Re:Boycott Apple by Inda · 2012-06-29 22:45 · Score: 4, Interesting

It's not very easy. It's very hard.

My closest friend bought the iPhone 4 just over 18 months ago, even after all my efforts. He kept telling me it was an iPhone and that's all that mattered.

He's too cheap to buy the apps, another mate half-jailbroke it, stopping all his banking apps working, iTunes was taking half a day to backup and often failed, the phone wouldn't factory reset, we couldn't even copy his contacts. He's pissed off with the lack of high quality free mapping. No Siri. Dull screen. The list of moans is endless.

He's just bought his daughter one. His wife is getting one in a few weeks time.

I can't understand it. They've seen my S2 connect to their TV via a common USB cable and streaming 1080p. They've seen me wirelessly send files to their laptop. They've seen Google Maps on Android. They've seen the photos it takes. And it's not even the best Android phone any more!

It's not easy at all.

--
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
Re:Boycott Apple by Mithent · 2012-06-29 23:24 · Score: 3, Insightful

Android's nature counts against it where advertising and mind-share come into play, I fear. Apple has a huge marketing budget and a single device to push. Individual manufacturers of Android phones usually have multiple devices to advertise at any one time, and want to drive customers towards their own specific Android phones rather than Android as a platform. Google don't advertise Android much, but even if they did, it's a vague concept to sell to consumers, especially when there are so many customised versions. Samsung has started to develop the sort of recognition and identity with the Galaxy S series that allows them to compete, and they're doing very well out of it.

But, yes, I know what you mean. I've tried to persuade people to look at everything on offer and decide what they like the most; if that's the iPhone, great, but at least consider your options. But Apple's marketing is so successful that they're not going out to get a phone, they're going out to get an iPhone, because that's what you get when you want a smartphone. Credit where credit's due I guess, but I wish people wouldn't swallow it up so wholeheartedly.
Re:Boycott Apple by maxwell+demon · 2012-06-29 23:37 · Score: 2

That's because he's a zealot and you can't do anything about it. It's like arguing with ayatollahs about the existence of god.
You mean, if I make a caricature of Steve Jobs, I have to fear death threats?

--
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Re:Boycott Apple by Uberbah · 2012-06-30 04:42 · Score: 2

That's because he's a zealot and you can't do anything about it. It's like arguing with ayatollahs about the existence of god.
Do you own a mirror?

Anecdotal evidence warning.... by AbRASiON · 2012-06-29 22:11 · Score: 3, Interesting

EVERYONE I know with an opinion on this topic is getting put MORE off Apple devices by it than on. I work on a floor of 40 nerds / gadget freaks, there is only 3 iphones left and 2 of those users intend to switch to Android as well.

Apple are doing themselves no favours at all.

windows 8 will destroy Apple by Jackie_Chan_Fan · 2012-06-29 22:24 · Score: 4, Funny

Watch out. Fuck the iphone. Windows Phone is the futucha

It will not change, till we do by vabruce · 2012-06-29 22:28 · Score: 2

While not letting people rip off your ideas has merit, what does not have merit is using the courts to "compete" against your competition. But, we as consumers will not act to correct the behavior of companies acting this way by not buying their products when they behave badly. We will just sit back and hope things get better. Kind of seems exactly how we also deal with politics...

Oh, for fuck's sake! by jtownatpunk.net · 2012-06-29 22:30 · Score: 3, Interesting

When are we going to get some goddamn patent reform???

This is like Chevy suing Toyota because people would buy more Chevy cars if Toyota wasn't selling a similar product. "They use a wheel and foot pedals to control their vehicles. We use a wheel and foot pedals. That's our thing!"

Ya know what? Fuck Apple. Fuck them right in their stupid asses. I was seriously considering making the switch back when they get an LTE iphone (paying full retail to retain my unlimited data plan and an ETF), and pick up a retina MacBook and iPad because they're freakin' gorgeous displays and it will be a year or more before anything like that hits the Android/Windows market and I'd have everything under one roof and this sentence is really long. But if this is how Apple chooses to "compete", fuck 'em. I'll wait for less litigious companies to catch up.

And that's what makes this so damn stupid. The competition is a year or more behind apple in just about everything (except data speed on phones). First to market with a consumer-friendly smartphone. First to market with a retina display smartphone. First to market with a high res tablet. First to market with a high res laptop. It's not enough for Apple to be the first up the mountain, they've got to hang their asses over the edge and shit on everyone below them.

Re:Oh, for fuck's sake! by McDee · 2012-06-30 00:50 · Score: 2

Apple compete by researching and designing their own products. They just want others to do the same.
A lot of the anger here is because the patents that Apple are using are garbage technically speaking but because they have been granted Apple is using them to stifle competition.
Let's see: slide to unlock. I have a 'phone with a touchscreen and some physical buttons. I can interact with the 'phone by:
- pressing the buttons, one or more at a time, in a given sequence
- touching the screen in one or more places
- moving my finger(s) around the screen
The above list is *it* in terms of the user communicating with the 'phone (I'm ignoring the gyroscope and GPS for the moment). *All* types of communication are going to be some combination of these. The fact is that Apple patented one of these (already known and frankly blatantly obvious) methods of interaction in a specific situation (taking the 'phone from a locked to an unlocked state) and call it "innovative" and are using it to block the sales of competing products.
Guarding your technical innovations: fine. Reducing competition through enforcing bogus claims backed by a broken legal system: not fine.
Re:Oh, for fuck's sake! by jtownatpunk.net · 2012-06-30 01:38 · Score: 2

Really? Really? Swipe-to-unlock is amazing innovation that should be used as a club to hobble the competition? Entering data for a search query is another, along with processing that request and returning the results. Those are the kinds of things we're talking about here. Not concepts or innovations that have years of R&D behind them.

Silver Lining by Bill+Dimm · 2012-06-29 22:43 · Score: 4, Informative

Apple was ordered to post a bond of $95 million to enact the injunction, which would be used to pay Samsung damages if the decision is later reversed.

Re:Silver Lining by QuasiSteve · 2012-06-29 23:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

At which point Samsung will have $95M but will have to re-start their advertising campaign, essentially re-launch the product, and target a market that has just bought a bunch of competing products - among which iDevices from which Apple stands to gain a lot more through e.g. app store purchases, third party products such as docks that use licensed tech, etc..
And that's assuming that by the time the decision lands the device is even relevant enough in the market to be relaunched. It may be better to launch a new product instead.
Which Apple would then seek an injunction against.
$95M - I'd love to have it, but I'm guessing Samsung are not particularly impressed.

Can we end software patents now? by Mithent · 2012-06-29 22:47 · Score: 5, Informative

I'm really getting tired of tech news consisting almost entirely of mobile device manufacturers suing each other over patents for general concepts and design principles. Technology progresses and consumers benefit when ideas and concepts can spread. This isn't the same as, say, drug development, where millions of dollars go into R&D, and that massive investment must be recouped to protect innovation. These are just relatively obvious ideas where the real work is in the implementation, integration and promotion, not in dreaming up a UI concept.

Maybe this would be a good place to mention the EFF's new campaign to reform software patents?

Apple *IS* a patent troll by Anonymous Coward · 2012-06-29 22:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

This sentence isn't true: "A patent troll is a non-practicing entity"

A patent troll is abuses the incompetent system within USPTO to gain financial advantage, sure they mostly don't make things (why bother when its easy money), but some do, and Microsoft and Apple both make things AND are patent trolls.

So in Apple's case they patented research of others that they used in the iPod Touch, and claimed to have invented it:
http://www.businessinsider.com/and-boy-have-we-patented-it-2010-3

I think they just saw Han's work, myself, rather than go back and copy the CERN work from the 70's which covered the same slide, pinch etc. gestures.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jeff_han_demos_his_breakthrough_touchscreen.html

You can't really blame them, the USPTO has showed it will issue patents to anyone for things that aren't inventions, to people who didn't invent them, and for things that are obvious (and in some cases industry common practice at the time), and of course there will be roaches that come out and feed on this feeding opportunity.

"Defending your patents doesn't make you a patent troll. "
Once you get your USPTO issued joke patents, defending them with a straight face IS PATENT TROLLING. The art is to not laugh when you tell the judge how you invented these things.

Re:short memories by Mithent · 2012-06-29 23:06 · Score: 5, Informative

Apple were first to commercialise them, but mouse-driven graphical user interfaces were first seen on the Xerox Alto.

Really? by cmdrbuzz · 2012-06-29 23:09 · Score: 4, Interesting

You hate Apple because they required you to update your operating system when you installed a new development kit?

Seriously?

If thats enough for you to hate a company, then you may want to look at anger management classes.

Best of luck with iPhone development on Fedora then.

Re:Um, No by IamTheRealMike · 2012-06-29 23:28 · Score: 5, Insightful

I don't understand why you believe Apple can be placated with some design tweaks and different features. Do you work for Apple or something? You're literally the only person posting on this story taking Apples side. I work for Google and I've seen how my colleagues have consistently worked long hours to innovate and create new features. The Galaxy Nexus is an amazing phone. It's thin, and light, and doesn't even have any hardware buttons on the front at all - yet Apple still are not happy. If you can't see why you're blind.

Apples goal is not to get competitors to "design around" their patents. This has happened several times already, the Samsung Galaxy 3 has even been called out by tech review sites for having a "lawyer approved design" (it's not rectangular, it does not have slide to unlock, etc). Apple keep coming, with newer and even more stupid patents, because their goal is not individuality, it is the utter destruction of all competitors. Steve Jobs himself said that in words so clear nobody can re-interpret them.

What's more, it's very hard to make an Android phone that doesn't share design elements with the iPhone these days, because Apple has copied Android many times in the past few years, for example, its notifications tray is identical to the design that first shipped in Android 1.0, and inferior to the one shipping in Jellybean. Android 1.0 also shipped with a universal search box and pluggable API for it, it shipped with suspend/resume multi-tasking that is extremely similar to the (very unique) design Android came up with, and so on.

the combination of ignorance and arrogance by decora · 2012-06-29 23:36 · Score: 4, Informative

apple did not invent the floppy drive

apple did not invent the mouse

apple did not invent the windowing operating system

apple did not invent the cellphone

apple did not invent the smartphone

apple did not invent lossy audio encoding

apple did not invent portable music players

apple did not invent the online music store

apple did not invent unix

apple did not invent digital typography

apple did not invent video chats

apple did not invent the laptop

apple did not invent the internet

apple did not invent hard disk drives

apple did not invent fiber optic communications

apple did not invent wireless networks

apple did not invent OpenGL 3d graphics subsystem

apple did not invent voice recognition

apple did not invent outsourcing

Re:the combination of ignorance and arrogance by swell · 2012-06-29 23:42 · Score: 2

I'm sorry, did I say Apple invented these things?

--
...omphaloskepsis often...

Re:Silver Lining is tarnished by Anonymous Coward · 2012-06-29 23:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

Apple was ordered to post a bond of $95 million to enact the injunction, which would be used to pay Samsung damages if the decision is later reversed.

But who will reimburse the consumers for the damages we suffer from having these devices temporarily off the market, if the decision is later reversed?

Re:What a.. by Lorien_the_first_one · 2012-06-29 23:55 · Score: 2

1 million phone activations a day isn't even close to the end for Android.

--
The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.

Re:citation needed by cmdrbuzz · 2012-06-30 00:05 · Score: 4, Informative

Wonder over to your favorite search engine and search for 'apple xerox parc'

The first link is the wikipedia link (for me anyhow)
for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARC_(company)

Look under the Adoption by Apple section:
"The first successful commercial GUI product was the Apple Macintosh, which was heavily inspired by PARC's work; Xerox was allowed to buy pre-IPO stock from Apple, in exchange for engineer visits and an understanding that Apple would create a GUI product "

And:

"However, Apple's designs included quite a few concepts that were not part of (or were non-trivial advances to) the prototype developed at PARC. For example[6]:
The mouse was not invented at PARC, but by Douglas Engelbart in 1963, Apple's mouse was an improvement on PARC's version.
Unlike the Macintosh, PARC's prototype was incapable of any direct manipulation of widgets.
Unlike the Macintosh, PARC's prototype did not feature Menu bars, or pull-down menu, nor the trash.
Unlike the Macintosh, PARC's windows could not overlap each other."

Oh and about the Xerox lawsuit:
"The Xerox lawsuit was dismissed because the presiding judge dismissed most of Xerox's complaints as being inappropriate for a variety of legal reasons"

Re:short memories by cmdrbuzz · 2012-06-30 00:09 · Score: 2

"The Xerox lawsuit was dismissed because the presiding judge dismissed most of Xerox's complaints as being inappropriate for a variety of legal reasons"

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARC_(company)

and http://www.nytimes.com/1990/03/24/business/most-of-xerox-s-suit-against-apple-barred.html

"A Federal judge today dismissed almost all the closely watched copyright lawsuit filed by the Xerox Corporation against Apple Computer Inc."

You can sue for anything (in the US at least). Winning.... Whole different matter.

Well they both have wheels and doors by drstevep · 2012-06-30 01:08 · Score: 2

Same thing happened when I bought a car. Okay, I'm not a car expert, but I really wanted a Camry. Went to a Chevy dealer, they both begin with C and that confused me. Doors, windows, wheels, I could have SWORN I got a Camry. Boy, was I surprised when I got home and finally saw the GM logo on the key!

I used to like Apple, now I hate Apple by walterbyrd · 2012-06-30 02:15 · Score: 2

Apple is nothing but a litigious scam company - worse than Microsoft.

I very much doubt I will ever buy an Apple product. Not that Apple needs my business.

I cannot understand how anybody could sink so low as to buy from Apple.

Re:citation needed by andydread · 2012-06-30 02:20 · Score: 2

This basically describes what Apple does in a nutshell. Shamelessly copy other people's R&D. Polish it a bit then commercialize it and call it their invention then sue others for being inspired by the products they release in the marketplace. Apple is true scum of the earth. The enbodyment of hipocrisy.

thats not the judges job by cheekyboy · 2012-06-30 02:43 · Score: 2

If the judge owns any apple products or shares, he has conflict of interest.

--
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.

Re:i propose iOS protest day, block safari by jo_ham · 2012-06-30 03:22 · Score: 2

You don't know many Mac users then. All the ones I know do use it, including me.

I use both Safari and Chrome - both have their quirks, but both a decent browsers. I swapped my second browser to Chrome from Firefox, which I used to use all the time.

German engineering by Kupfernigk · 2012-06-30 03:24 · Score: 3, Interesting

I used to work with German companies to develop both components and machinery for my company, and I do not agree. The Germans I worked with had a high regard for Japanese and Korean machinery. Their view was that German manufacturing and skills were a few years ahead, and that much of their superiority was in the education and training of the workforce. A German machine tool was better because it might use the latest material, drive or control technology, but mainly because it had been put together by people who were that much better than their Far Eastern competitors.

In fact, one of our suppliers used to sell their machines to the Far East after 18 months to 2 years because by then they had worn to the extent that they were about as good as new Far Eastern machines. By doing this, they helped German companies keep their machine tool sales up.

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From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."

Re:i propose iOS protest day, block safari by MisterSquid · 2012-06-30 03:39 · Score: 2

I literally know not a single OSX user that doesn't use Chrome or Firefox as their main browser and would remove Safari if it was possible, much like pretty much everyone I know with a Windows machine would dump I.E. in a second if that were possible.

Well count one right here then.

I'm a web developer, run several virtualized instances of Windows and have Chrome, and Firefox installed on my host OS as well as my virtualized Windows machines, but I use Safari as my main browser.

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Re:So, before you start developing a new product . by billybob_jcv · 2012-06-30 03:45 · Score: 2

It has always been this way - just ask Nikola Tesla.

Re:STFU, apple copied IBM keyboards by MisterSquid · 2012-06-30 03:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

They copied ascii.

Your posts in this thread reveal more about your irrational prejudice than Apple's patent-troll behavior, especially when you start enumerating the adoption of open standards as copying.

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Re:So, before you start developing a new product . by Prof.Phreak · 2012-06-30 06:35 · Score: 2

having a lawyer *involved* in product development from an early stage makes sense ---said a geeky lawyer.

Hope you realize that most innovative technologies of the last few decades started in a garage... you're saying that a tiny startup must choose lawyers over say rent or servers...

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"If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

How would they be reasonable? by Kupfernigk · 2012-06-30 06:42 · Score: 2

In fact patents belong in a world with a far smaller population. When there were lots of small nations with small educated populations, patents made some kind of sense. A patent holder affected at most a few million individuals in one country. But in a world in which the lucky first person to register an invention gets everything - that is ludicrous. It raises the bar of competitiveness to a degree that only the very well funded in countries with global reach are able to obtain any IP.

Patents on the crank and the negative to positive process held up engine development and photography, respectively, for years in the UK. In both cases it was merely a case of who was first to file. It is an excessive first mover advantage.

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From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."

I would have more sympathy for Google..l by rabtech · 2012-06-30 08:02 · Score: 2

I'd have more sympathy for Google if they weren't continuing the practice of suing over FRAND standards-essential patents.

Motorola (and now Google) have asserted that even though Qualcomm pays a license fee for Motorola's FRAND patents that they have the right to retroactively revoke that license for chips Apple buys and force Apple to pay a higher royalty directly. It's a terrible and underhanded way to do business and if the courts let them get away with it no one is safe, not even if you buy technology from another vendor who has licensed the patents in question because the patent holder will be able to dictate terms to that vendor that YOU are no longer a valid customer, then come after you... All after you already shipped devices, putting you on the hook for back royalties!

Motorola is also articulating a theory that FRAND now means a percentage of the sales price of devices which is insane. Numbers like 2% of the iPhone retail price or Xbox retail price. It has never been used this way in the past, and seems to be an attempt to stifle competition.

The Samsung case is a more straightforward one of Samsung retaliating against Apple by using FRAND patents, in violation of the standards and their previous agreements. Now whether Apple should have sued them in the first place I don't know... They have been copying Apple's designs and I guess Apple feels like they stabbed them in the back by using their manufacturing knowledge to help their mobile division get a head start... But all of that may have been perfectly legal which would make Apple's lawsuits sour grapes. What I don't understand is that Apple seems to represent more revenue as a customer than Samsung gets as a competitor and these lawsuits seem to be pushing them to use other vendors so why continue them? If I were Samsung management I'd push hard for a quick settlement.

The other side to this coin, and one I think Google is testing with the Nexus Q, is that an adverse ITC ruling can stop you dead because it prohibits imports. The second is that if China experiences any political upheavals or major natural disasters, you are well and truly SOL because you have no backup facilities or alternate vendors. Personally, I'd be uncomfortable with that and I would require at least some percentage (say 10%) of my product must be manufactured entirely in a first-world country or possibly even my home turf so I would have a favorable political climate.

For Apple, get visas, bring some of those engineers/managers to the states, and partner with Foxconn to setup a manufacturing company here. Yes, those units will be slightly more expensive, but it would give me a base of talent I could scale up if the SHTF and not leave me entirely unable to ship product for years if there is a military coup or something in China.

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Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)

All you need to know about Judge Koh by Taco+Cowboy · 2012-06-30 21:28 · Score: 2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_H._Koh

If you ever wonder why Judge Koh did what she did, click the above link

This Judge Koh was one of those patent-rats, ahem, patent lawyers, before she became a judge

And ...

Most important of all, she was recommended by Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein, both of them are receiving large "donations" from MAFIAA

And who else appointed Judge Koh to the Northern California District Court?

Barack Obama, of course !!

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Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !

Enough of all this !!

It's not about Samsung, or Apple, of Microsoft, or Google, or whatnots !!

This Patent war / Copyright MAFIAA thing, if not stopped, will have a very drastic effect on our society for a VEEEERRRRRYYYY LOOOOONNNNNNG time to come !

Not only innovations will be stifled, the marketplace will become monopolistic, and the customers will be forced to put up with maddening taxes, in term of "patent fees", "copyright royalties", etc

The politicians are on the take, we should NOT let them mess with this anymore

Even judges are getting on the bandwagon - this Judge Lucy Koh is a prime example of what can go wrong - She was a patent-lawyer before she was appointed to be a judge, and I will not even be surprised that she was on the payroll of a certain corporation

It's time to revolt !

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Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !

Re:Sorry no by NickFortune · 2012-07-02 03:17 · Score: 2

So at what point are you capitalist ? What does it require ? Native Americans did trade goods for "money", even if it was not paper money like we have.

That's a reasonable question. The I believe the standard definition is that a capitalist system is one where the means of production of goods and the resources needed to do so are vested entirely in the hands of private individuals rather than in the state

Your Native American tribes would fail that test in so far as the woodlands and buffalo herds were not privately owned.

Now if they'd had to buy a hunting permit from the owner of the woods, or pay a surcharge for each buffalo killed, that would have been a capitalist system.

Communism is what existed within a tribe : a central organ (the guy with the biggest axe) "decides what happens" (through what we'd call murder).

I believe the generally accepted term for that system is "totalitarianism". It's not entirely incompatible with communism, but neither is it the defining feature of the system.

Totalitarianism isn't entirely incompatible with capitalism either, for that matter.

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Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!

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