Oldest DNA Recovered From 7,000-Year-Old Skeletons In Spain

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Oldest DNA Recovered From 7,000-Year-Old Skeletons In Spain

Posted by samzenpus on Sunday July 1, 2012 @08:52PM from the original-markers dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Researchers published a paper in the current issue of Current Biology detailing their analysis of DNA from 7,000-year old cavemen in northern Spain. From the article: 'The bones of the two young adult males were found in a cave in the Cantabarian mountain range in 2006 by a handful of explorers, 4,920 feet above sea level. The cold atmosphere is what preserved the DNA in the remains of the two bodies. The cavemen lived during the Mesolithic period and were hunter-gatherers, as determined by an ornament one of the skeletons was holding. They have named the two skeletons Braña1 and Braña2 after the Braña-Arintero site in which they were discovered. They were in near-perfect condition.'"

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JP by kh31d4r · 2012-07-01 20:54 · Score: 3, Insightful

When are we cloning dinosaurs?
1. Re:JP by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 22:02 · Score: 1
  
  Pfft, dinosaurs?
  When are we cloning skeletons?
  I'd imagine they would walk like Jason and the Argonauts' skeletons
2. Re:JP by azalin · 2012-07-01 22:20 · Score: 1
  
  They already did that. There are several documentaries about it. It's called Juicy K Park or sth like that
3. Re:JP by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 23:56 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  No time soon. Despite earlier signs, there has been no legitimate DNA recovery from the Mesozoic, the time of the dinosaurs. All the earlier discoveries from amber of that age have turned out to be bogus, as have claims of obtaining DNA from dinosaur bone (it was contamination). In fact, the story is the same for most younger examples too. The oldest legitimate DNA is no more than a few tens of thousands of years old, and very fragmentary. So, we may get information from mammoths, moas, and giant sloths of the Pleistocene, but apparently nothing from extinct dinosaurs. Check this paper [PDF] and this one [PDF] for short reviews, and this one for a longer review.
4. Re:JP by arthurpaliden · 2012-07-02 00:56 · Score: 1
  
  Actually it is easier to regress chickens into dinosaurs by screwing around with the on/off switches in their DNA. Which by the way is already being done.....
  
  --
  Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
5. Re:JP by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 01:59 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Your links are a little dated since as of the most recent, dinosaur soft tissues have been discovered intact. Like T. Rexas blood vessels. See here. Granted it was only in 2006, but I was surprised none of the links were more recent.
  While this particular discovery didn't provide us with DNA, it does give more hints to the biology of dinosaurs in light of the absense of DNA. Though not equivocal, still very important to our understanding, as some conclusions can be drawn from soft tissue structure.
6. Re:JP by silentbrad · 2012-07-02 03:28 · Score: 1
  
  I saw that in the discovery channel. I think the guy was talking about doing the same with emus or ostriches. Of course, it might also be that I saw the chicken embryos he'd been messing with and started thinking about an ostrich with teeth, scales, arms with clawed digits, and a tail as long as the rest of its body.
7. Re:JP by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 03:40 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Excellent TED talk on this. Jack Horner's team is taking a novel...somewhat terrifying approach since there's no DNA available, but he spends a LOT of time talking about trying to get some viable DNA from various sources:
  http://www.ted.com/talks/jack_horner_building_a_dinosaur_from_a_chicken.html
8. Re:JP by jd · 2012-07-02 04:41 · Score: 1
  
  We have perfectly intact microbial DNA from 45 million years.
  
  --
  It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
9. Re:JP by RockDoctor · 2012-07-03 06:05 · Score: 1
  
  When are we cloning dinosaurs?
  We are already. Interesting, commercially useful dinosaurs, like chickens and ducks ; rare ones like various raptors ; perhaps interestingly commercial ones (could we back-breed moa, for food?).
  Oh, you meant cloning long-extinct dinosaurs. You provide the genetic material, I'm sure someone will want to do it. Could be interesting - but not more interesting than having the genetic material itself.
  (I disagree with Bob Bakker. Birds Are not Dinosaur Descendants ; birds are dinosaurs. For any meaningful meanings of "bird", "dinosaur" and "are".)
  
  --
  Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
10. Re:JP by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-03 16:24 · Score: 0
  
  I'd rather irradiate an iguana so that it grows to enormous proportions and let it loose in Toyko.
Must be fake. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 20:54 · Score: -1

The Earth is only 6,000 years old! The Earth will always be 6,000 years old.
1. Re:Must be fake. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 00:37 · Score: 0
  
  4004BC plus 2012 AD and -1 since there was no year zero = 6015 years
  So yeah it must be imaginary, like we imagine that we can see other Galaxies millions or billions of light years away
2. Re:Must be fake. by Titan1080 · 2012-07-02 01:37 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  The sad thing is, most Americans actually believe that.
3. Re:Must be fake. by Sentrion · 2012-07-02 02:57 · Score: 2
  
  Remember, when arguing with a creationist, that the "possibility" of their argument is all that matters, not the "probability". The creationist counter-argument is:
  1. A light-year is a unit of distance, not time, so does not prove age older than 6,000 years.
  2. God created "light" as a separate creation event, so the light from the star is just the illumination of God-created light. If you deny that God created the light, then you have to presume that the light traveled for millions of years from the apparent source. An analogy is if you see an arrow in a tree, you might reasonably presume that someone recently used a bow to shoot it, but reality might be that I just jabbed it into the wall with my hand. The point supposedly being that unless you know the whole story [as revealed in the Bible] your deductive reasoning is going to fall short.
4. Re:Must be fake. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 05:02 · Score: 0
  
  The sad thing is, most Americans actually believe that.
  Posting anonymously as I'm moderating on this thread...
  Why was this modded down as a troll? I'm an American and while I don't believe that bullshit, a large number of Americans (perhaps not a majority, but certainly a plurality) do. It's definitely -1 offtopic, or even -1 flamebait, but troll? I don't think so.
Santa is just an anagram by bmo · 2012-07-01 20:55 · Score: 4, Funny

They were planted there by Satan to test your faith in the Earth being 6000 years old.
--
BMO
1. Re:Santa is just an anagram by buybuydandavis · 2012-07-01 20:59 · Score: 2
  
  Whaddya mean?
  Everyone knows humans and dinosaurs lived side by side. It was on tv, for Christ's sake. Ever hear of the Flintstones?
2. Re:Santa is just an anagram by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 22:00 · Score: 0
  
  Any you were put here to test my faith in evolution.
  The guy in the red suite with a pitch fork is our own
  ego! Get it right!
3. Re:Santa is just an anagram by turkeyfeathers · 2012-07-02 00:48 · Score: 1
  
  Everyone knows humans and dinosaurs lived side by side.
  This article proves it. These cavemen were only 6000 years old, not millions of years old. Dinosaurs were also around 6000 years ago, when God created the planet. After these two cavemen died their pet dinosaurs dragged them up on a mountain and ate them, leaving the bones for archaeologists to discover now. Then the dinosaurs died in a flood.
4. Re:Santa is just an anagram by LurkerXXX · 2012-07-02 00:59 · Score: 2
  
  Then the dinosaurs died in a flood.
  Why? Were they witches?
5. Re:Santa is just an anagram by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 01:03 · Score: 0
  
  "Then the dinosaurs died in a flood.
  Why? Were they witches?"
  There was a duckbill dinosaur on the other side of the scale.
6. Re:Santa is just an anagram by __aaltlg1547 · 2012-07-02 01:38 · Score: 1
  
  Pretty tricky for Satan to plant those skeletons before God created the world. For that he'd have had to have the plans for human beings before God made them. Did he steal the plans and that's what got him in trouble with the Almighty? Or did he invent us and God had to wait for his patents to expire before he could create his own people?
7. Re:Santa is just an anagram by Rude+Turnip · 2012-07-02 03:06 · Score: 1
  
  Current Internet thinking is that the Flintstones takes place in the future, concurrently with the Jetsons.
  
  --
  Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
8. Re:Santa is just an anagram by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · 2012-07-02 05:40 · Score: 1
  
  We're not sure if they died in a flood, but they were wearing the right pants for it.
9. Re:Santa is just an anagram by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 06:47 · Score: 0
  
  They were planted there by Satan to test your faith in the Earth being 6000 years old.
  -- BMO
  Or rather that our dating methodoligies are flawed (more likely).
10. Re:Santa is just an anagram by buybuydandavis · 2012-07-02 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  You've got it backwards - if they were witches, then they'd be made of wood, and they'd float.
11. Re:Santa is just an anagram by LurkerXXX · 2012-07-02 13:32 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, you are right. I remembered that shortly after I posted. You could also weigh them vs a duck, because ducks float!
12. Re:Santa is just an anagram by formfeed · 2012-07-02 13:34 · Score: 1
  
  Then the dinosaurs died in a flood.
  Why? Were they witches?
  Eh, nooo. Witches float.
13. Re:Santa is just an anagram by metaforest · 2012-07-03 12:17 · Score: 1
  
  It's all fun and games until The Powers That Be find a large reptile skeleton imbedded in the parking structure next door to your Math...
14. Re:Santa is just an anagram by __aaltlg1547 · 2012-07-04 03:43 · Score: 1
  
  Well at least if push comes to shove, we have all the protractors.
But where are they? by jaymemaurice · 2012-07-01 20:56 · Score: 1

Where are the 7000 year old cavewomen?!

--
120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
1. Re:But where are they? by Nyder · 2012-07-01 21:03 · Score: 2
  
  Where are the 7000 year old cavewomen?!
  They were vacationing in the South part of Spain.
  
  --
  Be seeing you...
2. Re:But where are they? by bmo · 2012-07-01 21:04 · Score: 1
  
  I haven't heard of a 7000 year old woman, but the 2000 year old man is still alive.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnLqLHWDg5E
  --
  BMO
3. Re:But where are they? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 21:04 · Score: 0
  
  ...And why do these cavemen have such hairy palms?
4. Re:But where are they? by Fuck_this_place · 2012-07-01 21:08 · Score: -1, Troll
  
  They raped them and hid the bodies, but if they ever do it again, now we'll know!
5. Re:But where are they? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 21:31 · Score: 0
  
  Because razor blades were not invented until the Bronze Age?
6. Re:But where are they? by Cryacin · 2012-07-01 21:40 · Score: 0
  
  No, the kitchen stove is in the part of the cave they haven't visited yet.
  
  --
  Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
7. Re:But where are they? by bmo · 2012-07-01 21:49 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  You know when you tell a joke at a party and the entire room goes silent at the punch line?
  --
  BMO
8. Re:But where are they? by flyingfsck · 2012-07-01 21:51 · Score: 1
  
  The women were shopping for shoes in the mall of course.
  
  --
  Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
9. Re:But where are they? by ThatOtherGuy435 · 2012-07-01 23:43 · Score: 1
  
  They all stopped aging at 29, of course.
10. Re:But where are they? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 23:45 · Score: -1
  
  You know when you tell a joke at a party and the entire room goes silent at the punch line?
  --
  BMO
  You mean like when you tell people that you live in the comments on slashdot? I could see that.
  Unfortunately for you and 2-3 other basement virgins, I only party with people that were graced with a sense of humor.
  No you can't rent me.
  (thx for downvoting btw faggot, now I can only post twice a day. What a fucking retarded site this is.)
11. Re:But where are they? by hvm2hvm · 2012-07-02 01:12 · Score: 2
  
  Look up the movie "The Man From Earth" - pretty good one.
  
  --
  ics
12. Re:But where are they? by tverbeek · 2012-07-02 02:34 · Score: 1
  
  Do I have to spell this out for you? Two young adult males hiding in a cave, one of them with some kind of hunter-gatherer "ornament"? Too bad we haven't identified the genes for homosexuality yet, or we could test these boys' DNA for it. :)
  
  --
  http://alternatives.rzero.com/
13. Re:But where are they? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 02:37 · Score: -1
  
  (thx for downvoting btw faggot, now I can only post twice a day. What a fucking retarded homophobic turd I am.)
  FTFY.
14. Re:But where are they? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 10:13 · Score: 0
  
  >can only post twice a day
  You only get this if you reliably shitpost.
  There comes a time to abandon the conspiracy theories and to take a good hard look at one's self and ask "Am I an asshole?"
15. Re:But where are they? by buybuydandavis · 2012-07-02 19:53 · Score: 1
  
  I second the film recommendation.
16. Re:But where are they? by Fuck_this_place · 2012-07-03 03:29 · Score: -1
  
  Yet AC's can post alllll day long. What a brilliant system.
Why ? by Taco+Cowboy · 2012-07-01 20:59 · Score: 1

When are we cloning dinosaurs?
Why should we?

--
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
1. Re:Why ? by lazarith · 2012-07-01 21:07 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  So that we can create an amusement park and sell tickets? Duh.... It's not as if it could end badly or anything.
2. Re:Why ? by zero.kalvin · 2012-07-01 21:08 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Science doesn't ask why should we! Science asks why the heck not put chainsaws on bears and fit them with jetpacks you insensitive clod!
3. Re:Why ? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 21:09 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  food of course, they are basically just giant chickens
4. Re:Why ? by tsa · 2012-07-01 21:40 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Of course we should, just to show we can. We'll worry about other things later.
  
  --
  -- Cheers!
5. Re:Why ? by Taco+Cowboy · 2012-07-01 21:45 · Score: 2
  
  Of course we should, just to show we can. We'll worry about other things later.
  You're right, of course
  Please accept my sincere apology
  
  --
  Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
6. Re:Why ? by tsa · 2012-07-01 21:59 · Score: 1
  
  LOL :)
  
  --
  -- Cheers!
7. Re:Why ? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 22:05 · Score: -1
  
  You know how, in all of your glory, you hid your hopes and dreams in my closet? You know how you hoped that no one would find them?
  I found them. And when I found them... well, let's just say that they're now... shall we say... dumped on sallies! That's right; I put my ass right over them, lifted it up, and plopped it down. Each time I plopped it down, more dump flew all over it. I dumped and dumped and dumped and dumped until even the dump had absolutely zero places left to dump on. Your hopes and dreams are now mere dumped on sallies!
  You will never know bread, sandwich!
8. Re:Why ? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 22:14 · Score: -1
  
  And you will never know pussy until you grow up. Unless you're into underage chicks.
9. Re:Why ? by Rogerborg · 2012-07-01 22:18 · Score: 2
  
  Not because it's easy, but it because it gets nerds hard.
  
  --
  If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
10. Re:Why ? by Nidi62 · 2012-07-02 01:57 · Score: 1
  
  When are we cloning dinosaurs?
  Why should we?
  You never stopped to think if you should, you only stopped to think if you could.
  
  --
  The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
11. Re:Why ? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 02:43 · Score: 0
  
  We'll put it on a lunch box and sell it - we're gonna sell it!
12. Re:Why ? by CptNerd · 2012-07-02 20:00 · Score: 1
  
  We do what we must because we can.
  
  --
  By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
13. Re:Why ? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-04 01:12 · Score: 0
  
  I call the drumstick
Gays! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 21:35 · Score: 0

Were they holding hands?
1. Re:Gays! by RivenAleem · 2012-07-01 22:04 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Yes, but one was holding a Football. The Scientists believe this to be the original Real Madrid and Barcelona FC captains.
2. Re:Gays! by master_p · 2012-07-01 23:17 · Score: 1
  
  The first joke that came to my mind...
3. Re:Gays! by RivenAleem · 2012-07-02 00:33 · Score: 1
  
  Picture of the ornament they were found holding: Clicky
4. Re:Gays! by TheoMurpse · 2012-07-02 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  And they both date back to the Peléstocene.
CREMATE ME PLEASE by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 21:40 · Score: -1

I'm getting cremated....I don't want them to revive me and do mad experiments with my screwy brain, you won't find my dna anywheres around you mad scientists, and yes guy I know they cannot do that yet, but I'll be damned if one day I wake up inside the fortress of DOOM, whatever hell that level was, screaming "LET ME OOOUT!"
1. Re:CREMATE ME PLEASE by Titan1080 · 2012-07-02 01:41 · Score: 1
  
  If they found your DNA, and cloned you, it wouldn't be YOU. It would just be a copy of you, like a twin.
2. Re:CREMATE ME PLEASE by Sentrion · 2012-07-02 03:01 · Score: 3
  
  I'll be damned if one day I wake up inside the fortress of DOOM
  Sounds like a reasonable definition of damnation to me.
Oldest human dna by tinkerton · 2012-07-01 21:41 · Score: 4, Informative

It's not the oldest dna, but the oldest human DNA that they've found. This site reports DNA extracted from a 20 million year magnolia leaf.
1. Re:Oldest human dna by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 00:03 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Yes, it's not the oldest DNA, but on further study, that plant example is thought to be bacterial contamination [PDF]. The oldest-known current examples are things like extinct mammoths and mastodons that are much younger than 20 million years.
2. Re:Oldest human dna by arobatino · 2012-07-02 00:37 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  A few months ago an entire high-quality 30,000-year old Denisovan genome was published.
3. Re:Oldest human dna by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 02:20 · Score: 0
  
  That site also has articles like "Why should the Bible be trusted" -- Sorry, but anything they say on that site is suspect. YECs (and even OECs) are notoriously dishonest. (Not saying there *ISN'T* a 20 million year old DNA found in a Magnolia leaf -- just that a different source should be used)
4. Re:Oldest human dna by Dr+La · 2012-07-02 05:44 · Score: 2
  
  Actually, the oldest human DNA is that of the Sclayn Neandertal dating to 90,000 BP.
  
  --
  Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
5. Re:Oldest human dna by tinkerton · 2012-07-02 07:29 · Score: 1
  
  Bummer, is that so? Wait, I have a way out: definitely a neanderthal is no homo sapiens. Now there! My reputation is saved. Sorta.
6. Re:Oldest human dna by pyrothebouncer · 2012-07-02 11:14 · Score: -1
  
  YECs (and even OECs) are notoriously dishonest.
  So, Young Earth Creationists are notoriously dishonest? How about the hypotheses brought about by evolutionists which I have seen which are accepted as being exactly how things have happened? Just like in this video where Dawkins is talking about how the eye evolved: The Evolution of the Eye He talks about how it may have happened and gives an unsustainable hypothesis about the evolution of the eye. He hasn't proved that this is how an eye evolves. He doesn't explain where light sensing cells came from. I know, this is only a short clip and that he doesn't try to go into too much scientific detail. Just because he says it happened this way doesn't mean this is the final answer as to where the eye came from.
  So, I'm not sure where you are getting your statement that YECs are notoriously dishonest. Could you give some reasoning and links to sustain your statement?
  
  --
  Mumble mumble mum....
This kind of surprises me by bhartman34 · 2012-07-01 21:42 · Score: 2

I thought that the earliest DNA recovered from early man was much older than this. Haven't we compared Neanderthal DNA to modern human DNA?
1. Re:This kind of surprises me by lbbros · 2012-07-01 21:49 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  As far as I can remember, these studies on Neanderthal used mitochondrial DNA (i.e., the DNA stored in the mitochondria, which is separate from the one in the nucleus) rather than genomic (i.e. the DNA in the nucleus of the cell).
  
  --
  A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
2. Re:This kind of surprises me by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 00:40 · Score: 0
  
  The entire nuclear genome of neanderthal was sequenced just last year.
3. Re:This kind of surprises me by Dr+La · 2012-07-02 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  Early studies into Neandertal genetics concerned MtDNA: but the latest studies concern nuclear DNA. By now, there is a complete Neandertal genome (pieced together from genomic fragments of various Neandertals).
  
  --
  Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
Oldest? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 22:01 · Score: 0

Why does the article claim that this is the "oldest" DNA? There have been plenty of ancient DNA studies that recovered significantly older DNA.
1. Re:Oldest? by Michael+Woodhams · 2012-07-01 22:22 · Score: 1
  
  You are right. Neandertal DNA must be at least about 30,000 years old for a start. As I'm not at a university now, I can't check the full paper, but the abstract makes no claim to 'oldest', so this may be a stuff-up by an over-enthusiastic university publicity hack. The paper does claim a full mitochondrial genome, and I'm unaware of whether the older DNA sequences are complete, so maybe this is the seed from which the excessive claim grew.
  
  --
  Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
2. Re:Oldest? by vipw · 2012-07-02 01:02 · Score: 2
  
  Read the headline again carefully. It's the oldest DNA extracted from these 7000 year old skeletons. Obviously you can extract older DNA from older tissue, but good luck extracting older DNA from these skeletons!
3. Re:Oldest? by vipw · 2012-07-02 01:04 · Score: 2
  
  After reading the headline just one more time, I have to conclude that there is another possibility. It is possible to extract older DNA from these skeletons if you move the skeletons out of Spain.
Blue eyes by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 22:02 · Score: 0

Did you know that all blue man are descended from a single individual who lived only 10,000 years ago ?
1. Re:Blue eyes by azalin · 2012-07-01 22:16 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Did you know that all blue man are descended from a single individual who lived only 10,000 years ago ?
  That's why we call them the blue man group.
2. Re:Blue eyes by Baldrson · 2012-07-02 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  And did you know that as of 1900 half of the babies born in the US had blue eyes and the figure is now less than 20%?
  Natural selection in action! Well, maybe not natural selection but we certainly have no right to interfere in artificial selection because that would be, well, artificial selection.
  
  --
  Seastead this.
3. Re:Blue eyes by excelsior_gr · 2012-07-02 08:40 · Score: 1
  
  That's why we call them the blue man group.
  Over here we call them the "Smurfs".
4. Re:Blue eyes by formfeed · 2012-07-02 13:46 · Score: 1
  
  Did you know that all blue man are descended from a single individual who lived only 10,000 years ago ?
  That's why we call them the blue man group.
  Unfortunately, there is still a lot of prejudice against them
Oh how I wish Slashdot would consider... by outsider007 · 2012-07-01 22:06 · Score: 3, Funny

Not perpetuating the stereotype of spaniards as gay cavemen.

--
If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
1. Re:Oh how I wish Slashdot would consider... by azalin · 2012-07-01 22:18 · Score: 1
  
  They did find a rainbow Oreo in the cave though...
an ornament? by C0R1D4N · 2012-07-01 22:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

Seems to be jumping to a conclusion saying they were hunter gatherers by an ornament one was holding. I mean, they probably were just by the lack of agricultural evidence from that era, but what you are holding when you die hardly indicates the nature of your entire culture.
1. Re:an ornament? by cmdr_tofu · 2012-07-01 22:28 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah I could not find out what the ornament was. (Will have to wait until I can get to the University library to download the paper). I would believe something like fossilized poop or teeth abrasions as evidence of what they ate, but "an ornament" warrants more description and explanation. Was it a pictographic manual of hunter-gathering?
2. Re:an ornament? by arth1 · 2012-07-01 22:43 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Seems to be jumping to a conclusion saying they were hunter gatherers by an ornament one was holding. I mean, they probably were just by the lack of agricultural evidence from that era, but what you are holding when you die hardly indicates the nature of your entire culture.
  This is the problem I have with mainstream archeology - the jump to conclusions based on scant evidence, often "supported" by jumps to conclusions others have made before, based on even scantier evidence.
  There's a round dimple in this wall? Obviously they were sun worshippers! The skeleton's tibia was broken? Obviously this was part of a human sacrifice, because they were sun worshippers!
3. Re:an ornament? by epine · 2012-07-01 22:56 · Score: 2
  
  ... but what you are holding when you die hardly indicates the nature of your entire culture ...
  Depends whether it's an iPhone. Twenty years ago I might have agreed with you.
4. Re:an ornament? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-01 23:14 · Score: 0
  
  I agree. Dang you, Mainstream Archaeology. Dang you all to heck.
5. Re:an ornament? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 00:49 · Score: 0
  
  There is no evidence at all? Congratulation, you just found the birth place of sun worshippers religion, yet to develop any evidence!
6. Re:an ornament? by turkeyfeathers · 2012-07-02 00:50 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Yeah I could not find out what the ornament was.
  It was a medallion that said "Member of the Hunter-Gatherer Club of Braña-Arintero". How much more proof do you need?
7. Re:an ornament? by tomhath · 2012-07-02 01:08 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  It's hard to tell from the article, but I got the impression these two were carefully buried in the cave by other humans. Articles that are buried along with a body tell a lot about the culture. These ornaments depict red deer, which they very likely hunted.
8. Re:an ornament? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 01:22 · Score: 0
  
  Couldn't agree more. I mean, for that matter distant-future Alien explorers could conclude we were a species that entirely consisted of sitting infront of computer screens and masterb@iting.
9. Re:an ornament? by ElectricTurtle · 2012-07-02 01:23 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  In the first place, you're talking about anthropology, not archaeology. In the second place, that's how science works. If you have a hundred artifacts, you try to find a pattern from them, and then if somebody finds a hundred more that invalidate all or part of the previous hypothesized pattern, so be it. You come up with a new one that fits the available data.
  
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10. Re:an ornament? by __aaltlg1547 · 2012-07-02 01:53 · Score: 1
  
  Presumably something made from an animal they would have had to hunt, maybe complete with tool marks showing they ate the meat. But maybe these two STOLE the ornament and really came from a robber-gatherer culture. Minus 50th century gangsters.
11. Re:an ornament? by PerfectionLost · 2012-07-02 02:29 · Score: 1
  
  I can see it now--what future archeologists are saying about us:
  "We found his bones clutching an iPhone. He must have been one of these Scenesters we have culturally read about."
12. Re:an ornament? by Disfnord · 2012-07-02 03:54 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, no archaeologist does that. Nice straw-man, though.
13. Re:an ornament? by SexyHamster · 2012-07-02 04:12 · Score: 1
  
  This is the problem I have with mainstream archeology - the jump to conclusions based on scant evidence, often "supported" by jumps to conclusions others have made before, based on even scantier evidence.
  There's a round dimple in this wall? Obviously they were sun worshippers! The skeleton's tibia was broken? Obviously this was part of a human sacrifice, because they were sun worshippers!
  You know Prometheus wasn't a documentary on proper anthropology, right?
14. Re:an ornament? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 05:14 · Score: 0
  
  because they were sun worshippers!
  Hooray for the sun god! He sure is a fun god! Ra! Ra! Ra!
15. Re:an ornament? by arth1 · 2012-07-02 05:28 · Score: 1
  
  You know Prometheus wasn't a documentary on proper anthropology, right?
  If you mean the myth, I don't think that any a*ologists have suggested a religious connection for mastering fire. Yet. But give them a sliver of wood and they'll construct a temple from it. Preferably involving both murder and sex - it sells better that way.
  If you mean the movie, I haven't seen it and hope not to. The same might or might not apply, except that the murders and sex would be in 3D.
16. Re:an ornament? by dargaud · 2012-07-02 05:44 · Score: 1
  
  I think he has a point. In archeology, and even more so in anthropology, it seems that every new discovery invalidates or parallelizes the previous one. One example pisses me off: every >1Myo humanoid skeleton found is used to define a new branch of humanity (see 'flores'). You don't see this happen with other animals: if it looks like a coelacanth and it's been in a rock for 110 million years, then it's a coelacanth and they don't build bridges on it.
  
  Interpretation of artifacts and symbols is even more crazy: on my desk I have a paper illustrated by 'the oldest human carving': it's a circle with a vertical line on it. Comment from the article: "the oldest vagina representation" ! Omg, as soon as they invented carving, they drew porn with it, right, just like the internet!!! But think that only a cuople thousand years later when have the insanely developed Chauvet paintings ! So something is off.
  
  . Closer to home, when I read R. Graves as a teen I kept shaking my head at how naive it all was. Very poetic, insightful and interesting, sure, but a complete pipe dream nonetheless. I wasn't surprised to read later articles saying that it was basically either horse manure or bull shit.
  
  --
  Non-Linux Penguins ?
17. Re:an ornament? by bakes · 2012-07-02 06:36 · Score: 1
  
  Of course they might not actually be 7000 years old. They could be 4000-year-old archeologists who dug up 7000-year-old hunter-gatherer tools.
  
  --
  Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!
18. Re:an ornament? by formfeed · 2012-07-02 13:49 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, no archaeologist does that. Nice straw-man, though.
  Straw-man ?
  They believed in Voodoo?
19. Re:an ornament? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-03 16:32 · Score: 0
  
  Jimmy Hendrix was holding handfuls of barf, which proves he was a rock star!!! And a damn good one! Much like Keith Moon and more!
Buried the lead by EvilSS · 2012-07-01 23:39 · Score: 1

I'd be much more interested in the DNA from these explorers that are so tiny that you can measure them by the handful.

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I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
Hand-held history. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 00:05 · Score: 0

Seems to be jumping to a conclusion saying they were hunter gatherers by an ornament one was holding. I mean, they probably were just by the lack of agricultural evidence from that era, but what you are holding when you die hardly indicates the nature of your entire culture.
When I die they're going to find an iPhone.
Minor spelling correction by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 00:16 · Score: 0

it is Cantabrian mountain. Cantabria is a northern region in Spain.
This is bad by Errol+backfiring · 2012-07-02 00:26 · Score: 4, Funny

Can't you even have privacy if you are dead for 7000 years?

--
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
1. Re:This is bad by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 03:19 · Score: 0
  
  Grave-robbing is only bad against those of your own culture.
So.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 00:58 · Score: -1

Adam and Steve?
Misquote in article by tomhath · 2012-07-02 01:02 · Score: 3, Interesting

What the scientist actually said:

“These are the oldest partial genomes from modern human prehistory,” said researcher Carles Lalueza-Fox, a paleogeneticist at the Spanish National Research Council.
He qualifies it with "modern human", which makes sense for a 7000 year old skeleton.
1. Re:Misquote in article by steelfood · 2012-07-02 06:00 · Score: 1
  
  It's also worthwhile to note he said "partial genomes." You can't make little Brana kids from it.
  
  --
  "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
owww buuudy by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 01:08 · Score: 0

It's like Encino Man!
Tagged as Fred and Barney by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 01:10 · Score: -1

I'm ashamed to be seen reading this site at work. I found this site: http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/klee/misc/slashdot.html But all of those sites are shit these days, too.
Irony by b_dover · 2012-07-02 01:13 · Score: 2

Anyone else find irony in the fact that a journal named Current Biology publishes an article about 7000 year old DNA?
1. Re:Irony by jd · 2012-07-02 04:54 · Score: 1
  
  They have their Raisins.
  
  --
  It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
2. Re:Irony by fibonacci8 · 2012-07-02 07:19 · Score: 2
  
  Nope, in the scale of known existence, 7000 years back is still pretty current.
  
  --
  Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
3. Re:Irony by Kittenman · 2012-07-02 10:35 · Score: 1
  
  Good one. Mod parent up, etc etc.,..
  
  --
  "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
You aint been clubbing... by Dareth · 2012-07-02 01:39 · Score: 1

You aint been clubbing...until you have been clubbing with Cavemen!

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I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
1. Re:You aint been clubbing... by Larryish · 2012-07-02 03:50 · Score: 0
  
  If you had read the entire article, you would have found that the DNA really came from one of the researchers who has a penchant for extreme necrophilia.
  True story!
Oldest? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 01:49 · Score: 1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windover

Radiocarbon dating on two bones excavated from the pond by the backhoe, paid for by the developers, yielded dates of 7,210 years and 7,320 years Before Present
You are citing from them ? by aepervius · 2012-07-02 01:58 · Score: 4, Funny

http://creation.com/about-us#what_we_believe

You gotta kidding me , right ? You are DAMN fucking me ? "Creation magazine" ? Pleeease.

--
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
1. Re:You are citing from them ? by tinkerton · 2012-07-02 02:26 · Score: 1
  
  Look, I wouldn't fuck you with a 6 foot pole. Do it yourself. As for the link. blame Google. It was harder than i thought to find a good link. There are lots of other links listing ancient dna , some claiming 40 million year old snippets, and couldn't find out which claims are still standing. Most of the old ones appear to have been abandoned though, if wikipedia is a guide.
2. Re:You are citing from them ? by dave420 · 2012-07-02 03:29 · Score: 1
  
  Blame Google for your laziness? Eh?
3. Re:You are citing from them ? by tinkerton · 2012-07-02 04:04 · Score: 1
  
  Why not, if it works with Microsoft? To be fair, the page I googled looked sensible. It's a defensible approach to use a sensible quote independent of the source - if it's not too much out of context.
Frog DNA by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 02:07 · Score: 0

I hear filling in the gaps with frog DNA works great.
Alien abductions by FridayBob · 2012-07-02 02:21 · Score: 1

Once we compare it to our modern DNA, this 7,000 year old sample will finally reveal to us the changes that the aliens have made to our DNA after thousands of years of genetic manipulation!
Neandertal DNA is much older by peter303 · 2012-07-02 02:38 · Score: 2

And more detriorated. But shot-gun fragment analysis has recovered over 85% of a Neandertal genome. Enough to make detailed analysis to say how its related to homo sapiens.
1. Re:Neandertal DNA is much older by monkeykoder · 2012-07-02 03:23 · Score: 1
  
  And contrary to racist beliefs Europeans and Asians are more closely related to Neanderthals than Africans.
2. Re:Neandertal DNA is much older by Khashishi · 2012-07-02 04:55 · Score: 1
  
  What do you mean by "contrary"?
3. Re:Neandertal DNA is much older by steelfood · 2012-07-02 06:05 · Score: 1
  
  shot-gun fragment analysis
  It was once a zombie?
  
  --
  "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
4. Re:Neandertal DNA is much older by monkeykoder · 2012-07-02 10:25 · Score: 1
  
  What do you mean by "What do you mean by "contrary"?"
What about ... by PPH · 2012-07-02 04:15 · Score: 1

... Larry King?

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Have gnu, will travel.
Finally a test of the 10k year explosion theory! by Baldrson · 2012-07-02 06:21 · Score: 1

The ten thousand year explosion theory of human evolution is that there has been an enormous change in the genetic character of humans during the last 10000 years.
OK, so now we have a data point.
Hmmmmm... maybe someone should inject formaldehyde "on a accident" to denature all the DNA before hate-facts surface.

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Seastead this.
Wnedover - just as old and a zombie draw as well by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 10:12 · Score: 0

Actually, DNA was sequenced from prehistoric human brain tissue from the Windover archaeological site in Florida, which is from 7,000 to 8,000 years old. So, at best the DNA from Spain is a tie for oldest.
Re:Wnedover - just as old and a zombie draw as wel by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-02 10:15 · Score: 0

Can't bl***y type. The site is the "Wendover" site. Besides which, the Mesolithic is not considered the period of "cavemen," which ended with the Pleistocene. It is an absurd characterization any way.
Re:You are citing from them? Why not? by pyrothebouncer · 2012-07-02 10:53 · Score: -1

Have you ever read Creation Magazine? Have you ever read the Journal of Creation (also published by the Creation.com people)? If you haven't, who are you to criticize the source or the content?
Get off your high horse for once. You write as if the person found this on a porn site or something. Instead he found a link which referenced what he was looking for which happened to be on a site which is in opposition to evolution. Does an opposition stance automatically make all content on the site worthless?
Quit being such a closed minded person. Open your mind to the possibilities. If the Creation magazine is to chintzy for you, try the Journal of Creation. Good luck wading through the scientific articles in the Journal of Creation.

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Mumble mumble mum....
good by KingBenny · 2012-07-03 21:12 · Score: 1

that oughta give hardcore 'jeezes created the world 33 years before he got nailed to a board' creationists something else to think about

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Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?