Slashdot Mirror


Nokia: Google's Nexus 7 Tablet Infringes Our Patents

walterbyrd writes with a story at The Inquirer outlining the latest volley in the patent wars surrounding mobile hardware, this time aimed at the new Aus-built Nexus 7 tablet from Google by Nokia, in which the company's spokesman says, "Nokia has more than 40 licensees, mainly for its standards essential patent portfolio, including most of the mobile device manufacturers. Neither Google nor Asus is licensed under our patent portfolio. 'Companies who are not yet licensed under our standard essential patents should simply approach us and sign up for a license.'"

22 of 183 comments (clear)

  1. Good ol' Microsoft by Severus+Snape · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can't prove it but we all know this is another one of Microsoft's proxy wars.

    1. Re:Good ol' Microsoft by MikeMo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Come on, they're not a "troll". Patent trolls are regularly regarded as companies that make no product, have never implemented their patent, and exist only to sue. Nokia clearly invented a lot of the basic stuff that makes cell phones work today, and many of the standards in existence use these patents.

      This is a FRAND issue. Nokia is stating that Google is using technology covered in the standards, which require FRAND licenses, and which they have not acquired. They just need to step up and get them.

      Further, as far as I can tell, Nokia has been one of the best-behaved FRAND licensors in the business.

    2. Re:Good ol' Microsoft by wulva · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You are forgetting that Nokia as a company has done a major share of R&D in mobile space since 90's, thus they have huge chunk of patents covering the fundamentals. Now that their phone business is suffering they have to monetize somehow, and that how is their IP portfolio.

      It would be irresponsible of Nokia not to sue, as their shareholders want to see money.

      Most manufacturers have licensing agreements with Nokia besides some of the new comers such as Apple and Google and Apple already paid them off after getting sued.

      Now there is no question that Nokia fucked up. The fuck up was mainly caused by internal politics where different division screwed with others. I mean they had a mapping company bought years before google but they only got to market a year after them.

      Shit happens and now they've only got the low end and what ever IP they've developed. As they have to rebuild their credibility on the high end they need some cash to cover it, as such IP is the best source.

    3. Re:Good ol' Microsoft by Riceballsan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nokia was under completely different management 2 years ago, which essentially makes every point on behavior prior to the microsoft deals entirely unrelated points.

    4. Re:Good ol' Microsoft by Missing.Matter · · Score: 5, Informative
      Right because Google never experienced any crashes during a demo. Apple as well, known for their presentations, have always put on a perfect show with everything performing exactly as expected.

      Have you ever given a high-stakes presentation? Have ever given hundreds of them? Shit happens, and the more you get up there and put yourself on the line, the more shit happens.

      Steve Jobs had the right take on it.

      Even though Steve was a fierce competitor, he actually drew the line at taking advantage of competitors’ demo woes. I remember one time during the “think different” years when Bill Gates suffered a terrible failure demoing a new Microsoft technology. We at the agency thought it would make a very funny commercial for Apple. It seemed like an idea being handed to us on a silver platter. We would simply show Gates failing and end the ad with a clever line about Apple.

      Steve laughed — but he rejected it immediately. He said that demo crashes are an unavoidable part of the business, and that his own demos could fail as easily as Gates’.

      Source - The Joy of Demo Crashes

    5. Re:Good ol' Microsoft by jimicus · · Score: 4, Funny

      Microsoft has NOTHING to gain by patent trolling Google. Zero.

      Not true, I'm quite sure they'd love to bring their office furniture repair costs down.

    6. Re:Good ol' Microsoft by msauve · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Google is using technology covered in the standards, which require FRAND licenses, and which they have not acquired."

      Just because Google doesn't license WiFi patents directly from Nokia doesn't mean they don't have legitimate licenses. It's not uncommon for chipset vendors to license patented technologies for use in their silicon, freeing those who use those chipsets from having to negotiate a separate license.

      I'm not claiming that's the case here, but even if Nokia's claim that Google hasn't directly licensed the patents is true, it doesn't mean that Google doesn't have a right to use the technology, or that they're not paying Nokia (indirectly).

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  2. Transformer Line? by brunes69 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Asus has been making the transformer line for years. If Asus is not licensing required patents for Wifi, why has Nokia delayed on demands for so long?

  3. Which patent? by ameen.ross · · Score: 4, Informative

    FTFA

    It's believed that the patents in question have to do with the IEEE 802.11 WiFi standard

    --
    $(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
  4. Wifi patents by chrb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I guessed that this was probably something GSM related, but TFA says "It's believed that the patents in question have to do with the IEEE 802.11 WiFi standard". It's hard to imagine that Asus doesn't already have a license for essential wifi patents, they must have sold millions of devices over the last few years that have featured wifi as standard.

    Bit odd that this has not been an issue until the moment that they release a Google branded device.

  5. Can no one else see where this is going? by gman003 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The whole massive patent portfolios thing was hinged on mutually assured destruction. Everyone was violating at least one of everyone's patents, but as long as you either had enough of an armory yourself, or paid your dues to the patent portfolios, you were safe (disregarding wild patent trolls). Sort of like the actual Cold War - as long as you had enough nukes, or allied yourself with someone who did, you were safe (disregarding "rogue nations" and proxy wars).

    Well, this Patent Cold War is becoming a Patent World War.

    It's been going on for a while now, ever since the smartphone lawsuits first stated, but it's ramping up. They're coming faster and faster now, and going for bigger and bigger things. Pretty soon, you'll be seeing injunctions against entire companies, or multi-trillion-dollar fines.

    I expect, in the end, most of those involved will end up out-of-business. And, hopefully, it will end with a massive patent system reform.

    1. Re:Can no one else see where this is going? by savuporo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I expect, in the end, most of those involved will end up out-of-business. And, hopefully, it will end with a massive patent system reform.

      You know, i get scared whenever anyone calls for a reform. I mean no doubt that the current system is broken, but i dread to see what the current powers would come up with to replace the current system.

      There was some sanity and integrity still around when the last system was designed - and now it has outlived it's usefulness, but we are also all out of sanity and integrity.

      --
      http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slashdot.org Errors found while checking this document as HTML5!
  6. Ugh by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even though it's got nothing to do with Apple, I'm still going to blame them anyway since, as we all know, everyone copies off Apple, be it rounded corners or patent trolling

    :P

  7. Re:Oh you, silly you. by Trashcan+Romeo · · Score: 3, Funny

    And what's the deal with airplane peanuts? Am I right, people?

  8. WTF! by kurt555gs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I used to be a total Nokia Fanboi. Hell, I use a Nokia N9 as my everyday cell phone. I cried like John Boehner when Elop took over and made Nokia Microsoft's bitch.

    Now I'm mad! I just ordered one of those Google 7 tablets, and my former love, Nokia is trying to stop me from having it!

    Phuque!

    Where is this world going?

    --
    * Carthago Delenda Est *
  9. Are we reading too much into this? by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's not a lot to go in the Inquirer article (there never is in my experience), but isn't it possible that Nokia's stance is entirely reasonable? Maybe it does hold standards essential patents relevant to the Nexus tablet and is entitled to FRAND payments. It's not threatening to seek injunctions. On the face of it, Nokia is seeking payment for licenses that it believes it is entitled to.

    Not sure how we get from here to alleging Microsoft-led conspiracies... At least wait for the Google/Asus responses before taking sides.

    1. Re:Are we reading too much into this? by spire3661 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The Nexus 7 isnt fundamentally different from their other tablets/phones in regards to these patents. Why bring suit now?

      --
      Good-bye
  10. Re:Patents? by hendridm · · Score: 4, Funny

    I hear SCO makes a solid UNIX product as well.

  11. Ceo elop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    The Nexus 7 also violates Nokia’s patent for “a method for losing money on hardware sales.”

  12. Re:What to do about it? by gman003 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The problem is that you are assuming the "guy sitting in his office" is rational. People are *not* rational. I know I'm not, and I've yet to see a truly rational person. Oh sure, at times, maybe even most of the time, people are somewhat rational. But "homo sapiens sapiens" isn't nearly as wise as he thinks he is.

    Their chain of thinking is relatively simple. In the beginning, it was simple - you have a Good Idea, one worth money, one that lets you make good products that you sell for more money.

    Patents were invented to protect those Good Ideas, to reward the people who came up with Good Ideas. So obviously, when you have a Good Idea, you should patent it.

    Eventually, the distinction between Good Ideas and patents was lost. Every Good Idea becomes patented; every patent covers a Good Idea. And, as Good Ideas are good things that you want a lot of, patents must be good things that you want a lot of.

    So the men in suits pushed for more patents. They pushed their thinkers to file more patents, and pushed the laws so they could patent more ideas (because, after all, if an idea is patented, it must be a Good Idea that brings in money!)

    But they pushed too far. They ended up with patents that were not Good Ideas, maybe just good ideas. Maybe just ideas, or bad ideas, or just ideas for ideas. And they had so many, they covered almost everything. You can't make a product without using hundreds, even thousands, of patents.

    And there are *two* ways to make money from patents. First, you can use it to make a Good Product. But you can also use it to get money from someone else who is making a Good Product.

    And more and more, the men in suits focused more on the second way than the first way. Which fed the cycle more - driving more and more patents. Which drove more and more patent suits.

    It's a common error of human psychology to never see yourself as the aggressor. People almost always see themselves as the one *being* attacked, not the one *doing* the attacks. So now the men in suits are scared, because they feel as though they're under attack by patents.

    But in the system we've ended up with, there really is no defense against patents. All you can do is go on the offensive yourself.

    And so they fight back, because that's the only option they can see. They probably can tell it will end badly for them, but I imagine they blame the other companies for "forcing" them into this situation (because, after all, most people prefer to blame others rather than their own short-sightedness).

    They can't see that there is an option to change the game, because few men can truly see that option while they play the game. We outsiders can see it, because we aren't in the middle of it.

  13. Re:Defending royalties is obligate by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Insightful

    See, Nokia is talking about "standards essential" patents. A situation that needs to be outlawed. Granting a monopoly on a new invention is one thing, mandating by a standard that everybody must use that new invention is quite another. And quite outrageous. This widespread practice has only flourished in the past because it has flown under the radar of the average citizen. It can't be allowed to continue.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  14. Just like the scox scam by walterbyrd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Microsoft chose scox as a proxie for the same reason. Scox was dead in the water before they filed their lawsuit against IBM - about ten years ago now.

    Scox had gobs of msft money to gain, and nothing to lose.

    Nokia is the sequel to scox.