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Ask Slashdot: Are Smart Meters Safe?

An anonymous reader writes "There is a lot of controversy and a big hullabaloo about Southern California Edison and various other utilities around the country installing smart meters at residential homes. Various action groups claim that these smart meters transmit an unsafe amount of RF and that they are an invasion of privacy. The information out there seems rather spotty and inconsistent — what do you engineers out there think? Are these things potentially harmful? Are they an invasion of privacy?"

19 of 684 comments (clear)

  1. Privacy issue in Europe by xaxa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In Europe, they're being investigated as a privacy issue:

    Hi-tech monitors that track households' energy consumption threaten to become a major privacy issue, according to the European watchdog in charge of protecting personal data.

    The European Data Protection Supervisor (EDPS) has warned that smart meters, which must be introduced into every home in the UK within the next seven years, will be used to track much more than energy consumption unless proper safeguards are introduced.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jul/01/household-energy-trackers-threat-privacy

    1. Re:Privacy issue in Europe by yodleboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wait a sec. How is it a privacy issue for the utility provider, that already knows how much power you consume, to use a smart meter? Help me out here.

      Anecdotaly... As a multiple time sufferer from mis-read meters and the pain in the ass that results from convincing the power company to believe that you really didn't use 10000 KW/h last month when you've been average 1500 KW/h for years I love that my usage is precisely monitored and measured. I also get some cool features like email alerts if my usage spikes, the ability to see my projected bill ahead of time and make adjustments to my usage in advance, and I can compare my usage to other houses in the neighborhood. That last however DOES NOT IDENTIFY THE HOUSES. All I see is "your usage is x% more/less than similar size houses this week".

    2. Re:Privacy issue in Europe by Macman408 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think the idea is that, with a smart meter, the utility can tell when you consume that power, and what the incremental steps are. For example, you could probably figure out when the occupants wake up, go to bed, turn on the computer, turn on the TV, turn on your marijuana grow lights, etc. The article lists some other things such as "whether someone uses a specific medical device or baby monitor" that I find somewhat dubious, but within the realm of possibility, especially if they have a particularly unique way of using power (the wattage used, and the duty cycle, for example - more likely with a medical device than a baby monitor, though).

      That said, it's not a reason to not adopt the technology, which can bring a wide variety of benefits, as you mention. It *is* a reason to pass legislation to control who can access that data and under what circumstances, if you feel that it is likely to be mishandled.

    3. Re:Privacy issue in Europe by Bengie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My local water company has switched over to smart meters for water usage. Now that they have pseudo-realtime flow information, they have reduced their operations costs by about $200k/year and my water will has gone down because of reduced rates.

      The more information engineers have access to, the more efficient the system.

      If we EVER want to have massive roll-outs of green energy, we'll need smart meters. Fuck green, lets burn coal until we die, I don't want someone seeing how much power I use.

      What we do need is rules stating that the information collected must be securely accessed and transmitted. Possibly limit collected data to just stuff like average power-draw, local voltages, highest burst, standard deviation.. stuff like that.

      They don't need to know what exactly what I'm running, just a category of power demand.

    4. Re:Privacy issue in Europe by pedrop357 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not really. My power company gives me 15 minute snapshots and I've been able to determine all sorts of stuff. That hour long spike there-that's when I was cooking an early dinner.

      That 20 minute spike-THAT's right around the time I heard that noise and went outside to see what it was, leaving the damn door open and causing the AC to kick on.
      Some of that only means something to me.

      BUT, a person looking at my snapshots can EASILY figure out when I get up, when I go to sleep, my days off, etc. My house has a fairly consistent 'idle' when I'm asleep or at work.

      Just look for a 1 hour period of activity following 6-10 hours of idle, which precedes another idle period. You've got about what time I get up and when I leave for the day.
      Look for a few hours or activity following a period of inactivity and you have when I get home. Yes, depending on how similar the periods are, you might have trouble figuring out which is me getting up and ready for work vs which is me getting home. Some more observing might help figure out what the idle period is.
      If you can average my kwh usage, you can get close to figuring out if I'm single or not.

      You can work out when there's guests. Higher power spikes might indicate water heater usage which implies additional laundry or (more likely) shower usage. Now you can start to get closer to figuring out if I'm less single then before.

      Yes, the data ia a bit vague, but that's nothing that can't be cleaned up with more granular info and some better data on appliance usage. Just do some searches of who built my house and you can figure out whether it's likely I have gas or electric appliances.

      The best part is all of this can be mined and viewed right from someone's desk. No need to stalk me to figure all of this out.

      I see huge privacy implications in all of this.

    5. Re:Privacy issue in Europe by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Protip: making vague concerns boldface does not make them real or more clear.

    6. Re:Privacy issue in Europe by 0xG · · Score: 5, Funny

      I am shocked - shocked! about this. I'm going to post about it on my Facebook page, my Twitter account, and LinkedIn!

      --
      A pox on web designers who feel that window.innerWidth == screen.availWidth
  2. Really ? Unsafe amount of RF ? by Worchaa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'll be these folks lodged some of their complaints over a mobile phone. And none of them use garage door openers, or keep track of their kids at the mall using FRS radios... argh. If they don't like the idea of remote meter reading, fine-- that's one thing, and a valid discussion to be had. But unsafe RF levels ? Are you KIDDING me ?

    --
    - Marching Band: It's not just for breakfast anymore
    1. Re:Really ? Unsafe amount of RF ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah. Anytime someone asks engineers what they think regarding "dangerous RF", 9 out of 10 responses fall in the range from "No, let me explain how it compares to all these other things you use every day, including sunlight, and about photon energy and how that differentiates visible~radio waves from ionizing radiation" to "STFU you bleeding idiot, read a grade-school science text!". And the remaining one will be blathering on about how he works at a megawatt-class radio transmitter which can absolutely kill you if you stand to close due to the high E field, therefore would everyone STFU about wavelength being the only significant parameter. (Because what would /. be without pedants pointing out things clearly unrelated to the current case that nevertheless make the conventional knowledge technically inaccurate?)

      You'd think at some point they'd get tired of asking us...

    2. Re:Really ? Unsafe amount of RF ? by robot256 · · Score: 5, Funny

      You'd think at some point they'd get tired of asking us...

      They would, if they could remember the &#@* answer for more than 10 seconds.

  3. Radiation hazard? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not only is there no evidence that these meters are harmful, but the effect of radio frequency exposure upon living tissue (approximatly none) is well-studied and understood. These radiophobes have about as much scientific respectability as the anti-vaxers, homeopaths and creationists. They are a parody of science.

    1. Re:Radiation hazard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Not only is there no evidence that these meters are harmful, but the effect of radio frequency exposure upon living tissue (approximatly none) is well-studied and understood. These radiophobes have about as much scientific respectability as the anti-vaxers, homeopaths and creationists. They are a parody of science.

      Hey you asshole, VMS was a fine OS for its day, show some respect ;-)

  4. Re:A Cynical Protest or a Case of Get A Tin Foil H by slashping · · Score: 5, Informative

    Don't forget the biggest source of hazardous radiation: the sun.

  5. Re:Trespassing.... by captaindomon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This property owner fellow needs to do more research on easements, encumbrances, and fee simple property titles. Property ownership is not as simple as most hillbillies think it is.

    --
    Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
  6. The problem is the nature of the Digital Waves by arthurpaliden · · Score: 5, Funny

    Cell phone radio waves are used for carrying voice. This means that they are analog in nature and are therefore sine waves. Now sine waves are by their very nature are curved. This means they are easily able to flow over and around DNA and other molecular structures such as proteins. This is not the case for digital computer or in this case Smart Meter WiFi EM radiation. The data computer WiFi radiation carries is digital in nature and therefore only has two values 1 and 0. This means that it is transmitted as a square wave with a flat instead of a curved leading edge. As a result it is not able to easily flow over and around a cell's DNA but rather slams into it at several hundred thousand times a second. This is like a hammer hitting a string of pearls over and over and over. Eventually the pearls and the string will break.

  7. There's only one thing... by DigitalSorceress · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's only one thing in this article that seems like a legitimate concern:: the issue with possible incorrect bills and an issue I didn't really see raised: the possibility of unauthorized access/tinkering.

    The lady whose electric bill shot up 300% ... either she was somehow not being billed for the power she used all along, or else the new meter is faulty. THAT is a legitimate concern.

    However, I am sick to death of all these whiny whiners and their "I'm allergic to RF" .. NO. No, you're not. You're not special, you don't have some super power that lets you receive radio waves... you're not experiencing something that science or big business is covering up... you're being hypochondriacs or else you''ve got Munchhausen's syndrome. Either way, you sure as hell don't experience RF sensitivity - not unless you're talking about the power levels inside your microwave oven.

    rabble, rabble!

    --

    The Digital Sorceress
  8. As a former developer of Smart Meter Tech by eagee · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So, I used to write server software for one of these companies, and I'd say the biggest concern is the corners they're cutting in order to get a product to market. Having an internet aware electricity grid is a terrible, terrible idea, especially when the leaders of these organizations are businessmen/women that don't understand the underpinnings of technology. It isn't a matter of if hackers will eventually be able to monitor, track, and use this information against customers (e.g. Hitting homes that have significant drops in usage while they're out of town) it's when. Furthermore, several of these meters have a remote IP enabled shutoff - can you image the havoc that could be wreaked when the encryption and authentication software in these meters is outstripped by new technologies? This is all worst case scenario stuff, and it isn't like these companies aren't always doing their due diligence; it's just that I feel social engineering and/or actual hacking makes this seem like an inevitable outcome.

  9. In the industry by jgorkos · · Score: 5, Informative

    Finally, after years of lurking, a subject I can speak with authority on.
    I actually got to speak to a Georgia House committee on the subject of smart meters, since I work for one of the major manufacturers. Here are some of the things I told them...
    Our meters use licensed 900Mhz FSK (not spread spectrum) bursts. An average electric meter transmits 6 times a day with 1 watt EIRP (off a PCB antenna in the meter), in bursts of about 180ms. Total on-air time is nominally 1 second per meter per day.
    As for privacy, we use symmetric AES-256 encryption with per-meter keys for both uplink and downlink to the meters (our meters are twoway-capable). Keys are rotated generally every three months (yes, imagine rotating 4+ million encryption keys every few months, over a system with an aggregate bandwidth of about 12kb/s).
    We sell a "remote-disconnect" option in our meters, but it's expensive and only used by electric companies in limited situations. While we can trigger a remote disconnect, in the interest of safety we cannot re-energize a meter without a very complicated dance. Instead, we send an arm-for-reengize command, and then tell the consumer to take their TV remote control outside and point it at the meter and hit the "POWER" button. An IR receiver in the meter face then causes the meter to re-energize.
    One of the big complaints (after they get past the RF) of the anti-smart meter groups is the use of "dirty switching power supplies". According to the anti-smart-meter web sites, these switching power supplies cause surges on the AC mains, which somehow increase cancer risks up to 13 times. The power supplies in our meters are actually certified under 3 different FCC type ratings, and are somewhere north of 95% efficient buck-boost supplies. Since the load of the metrology and RF boards in the meter is minuscule, smart meters generally only draw milliwatts while running, and the chances of inducing large spikes onto the mains is non-existent.
    I got to meet some of the people behind the anti-smart-meter campaigns. For the most part, they're nice elderly ladies who get their view of the world from Pat Robertson and Fox news. They crave some cause in their life, are experiencing health issues generally related to aging and unhealthy choices, and find any new technology (especially hard-to-understand, mandatory-use technology like smart meters) scary and use it as a good scapegoat for their health worries. Everyone here realizes that a web page is the ultimate printing press, and with enough Googling you can find some "expert" pushing some kind of "science" to support pretty much any view you wish to cling to. It's embarrassingly easy to put together a semi-literate sounding alarmist web page backed up by flaky pseudo-science and gather like-minded people to your way of thinking.

    Bottom line is, as an electrical engineer, an extra class amateur radio operator, and a father, there are about a million things my kids run across every day that are more damaging or dangerous than smart meters. Most of those are naturally occurring (sunlight kills more people in a year via skin cancer than every smart meter I've ever played a part in will kill in a thousand years). If you need something to stress about or blame your poor health or weird medical condition on, please find a better scapegoat than smart meters.

  10. Re:Tinfoil hat! Get yer tinfoil hat on! by plover · · Score: 5, Informative

    While it's definitely the power company's right to know how much power I'm using, and even to know in aggregate how much peak versus non-peak power I'm using, but they really shouldn't need to know hour by hour or minute by minute (or even day by day) how much power I'm using.

    Actually, this is the entire idea behind the smart grid. The data is not for them to know how much to generate - as you pointed out, they already know that. The idea is to charge you more for the electricity that costs them more to generate. Not all power is generated equally cheaply. On a hot day with lots of A/C usage, they have to bring emergency generators on line. These burn very expensive fuels, such as natural gas, and cost them 10 times as much as the electricity generated by the much cheaper coal fired plants. They want to bill you a lot more for the times they're forced to bring those extra generators on line, because if they charge you more, you might change your mind about consuming electricity that's so expensive to produce. So the smart grid will use consumer demand to reduce their need to supply.

    The smart meter's job is two-fold. One task is to record your usage depending on the rate. The other is to transmit the rates to your smart household appliances. This would be messages like "the current non-peak rate is $0.16/kWh" or "the peak rate from 4:00 PM to 8:00 PM will be $3.25/kWh." If you have smart appliances that can read these messages, they can make their own decisions. You might configure your clothes dryer to run only when electricity is cheaper then $0.50/kWh, for example, meaning it would shut itself off during the really expensive peaks. Or you might configure your water heater to hold 140 degrees at $0.35/kWh rates, but 110 degrees at rates above that. This would give you the ability to make your own choices about placing peak demands on the power grid. You would think about if you really need 50 gallons of 140 degree hot water at 5:00 in the afternoon if it's going to cost you $7.00 extra per day.

    The idea is simple: get people to cooperate to consume less energy. They've proven they won't do it for the environment, but they will do it for money.

    --
    John