Another Death in the Cloud As Apple Kills Off iWork

Google is retiring the iGoogle page, but on a much shorter time scale, Apple is shutting down an iService of its own: the cloud-storage site iWork.com (linked to Apple's office apps suite iWork) is slated to go offline at the end of this month. Says the article, over at SlashCloud: "As of that date, 'you will no longer be able to access your documents on the iWork.com site or view them on the Web,' reads Apple’s note on the matter, followed by a recommendation that anyone with documents on iWork download them to the desktop." Both of these announcements remind me why I covet local storage for documents and the ability to set my own GUI prefs.

Comments

Apple products don't work

[Anonymous Coward]

Makes sense as they are a consumer brand and not targeting the workplace.

Re:Apple products don't work

[kelemvor4]

Makes sense as they are a consumer brand and not targeting the workplace.

I guess the -1 means apple fanboys thought you were trying to slander the company. Funny thing is, Apple will be the first to tell you this. Just as they told me that very thing when we were trying to bring in servers to support ipads and macbooks that some folks in the company had purchased.

Re:Apple products don't work

[PopeRatzo]

Makes sense as they are a consumer brand and not targeting the workplace.

And we all know consumers never work.

Re:Apple products don't work

[hairyfeet]

Why did this get marked down? Has nobody been watching since Cook took the big chair? Turning FCP into iMovie pro, dragging ass when it comes to updating the pro line (and when they did it was still behind the curve BAD), killing the server line, its pretty damned obvious that while Jobs liked the idea that "The movies are made on Apple products" that Cook? He really don't give a shit.

Mark my words within 2 years the pro line will be quietly canned, probably with some press release stating the iPad is the new Pro tool or some such BS, and the line will be trimmed down to maybe 2 Macbooks and a couple of iMacs and that's it. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if Cook exits X86 altogether, its just not nearly as high margin as mobile and its controlled by Intel and NOT Apple which has never set well with Apple.

Frankly when Intel slit Nvidia's throat on the chipset business i figured it was the beginning of the end for Apple X86, Apple and Nvidia had a nice relationship and Intel just killing it like that couldn't have made any friends at Cupertino. Then you look into Cook's past, how he likes to lock parts up with multiyear contracts so they know what is coming when and how much and having their X86 line dictated by Intel must not sit nice with them. They should have went with AMD where they would have had more pull but seeing what Apple has been doing in the pro line I have a feeling Cook will just wash his hands of X86 completely instead.

Re:Apple products don't work

[macs4all]

Apple has been doing in the pro line I have a feeling Cook will just wash his hands of X86 completely instead.

First, you really aren't seeing much of Cook's influence yet. Apple is a big-ass battleship which takes some time to maneuver, and the "turns" you are seeing now were plotted out and called down from the bridge by Admiral Jobs, not Captain Cook.

Also, I can't remember where I heard it (Tim Cook, actually, IIRC); but "Apple" has stated that the Mac Pro is going to get some serious love in 2013.

Is this really a "death"?

[MrEricSir]

Seems like they're just moving their online document storage service from iWork.com to iCloud. It's not like iDrive, where they killed it and offered no replacement.

Re:Is this really a "death"?

[MickyTheIdiot]

Except that they are retiring "real" cloud storage like iDisk and only allowing documents... going in the exact opposite direction of Google which moved from only allowing Google Office documents to allowing real cloud storage of all types of files.

It's a weird direction they are going... by getting rid of iDisk they are doing the exact opposite of Google, dropbox, and everyone else.

Re:Is this really a "death"?

[egranlund]

Except that they are retiring "real" cloud storage like iDisk and only allowing documents... going in the exact opposite direction of Google which moved from only allowing Google Office documents to allowing real cloud storage of all types of files.

It's a weird direction they are going... by getting rid of iDisk they are doing the exact opposite of Google, dropbox, and everyone else.

I think their overall strategy is to move away from the filesystem model since the iPad doesn't expose it to you at all for simplicity, etc. Retiring a service like this makes sense if you keep that in mind.

Doesn't make me want to use it, but that's not the only reason :P

Re:Is this really a "death"?

[cusco]

move away from the filesystem model

OK, perhaps I'm just ignorant because I don't use any i-stuff, but what the heck are they going to replace it with? Since your post is marked Score: 4, Insightful it's probably correct, but I'm a bit mystified. It makes even less sense to me than MS doing way with the Start button.

Re:Is this really a "death"?

[jbolden]

Probably they are moving towards a database structure like you have on minis and mainframes. The always on and save state features of Lion are steps in that direction. The sandboxing so that applications have to be granted specific access: i.e. App X has the right to do Y to Z, is a step in that direction. A system wide OS notification system is a step in that direction. Those types of systems are incredibly powerful. They are the reason why in mainframes you can see 75 COBOL programs acting in sequence with chains a dozen programs long, dating forking between these programs and coming back together, all automated. While on a PC you are lucky to pass data through 3 programs without something breaking.

From a user land perspective you wouldn't have application files as anything more than ways of viewing a dataset.

iWork migrated to iCloud

[enterix]

iWork.com was always in Beta. Documents sharing services were incorporated into iCloud thus making iWorks.com redundant.

Welcome to the cloud....

[wbr1]

...where your important business data is as misty amd vaporous as its namesake. very eponymous if you ask me, and just as likely to evaporate.

Re:Welcome to the cloud....

[Trepidity]

Well, not all clouds evaporate. Sometimes, rather than evaporating, they dump their contents all over, at inconvenient times and locations.

Re:Welcome to the cloud....

[Pausanias]

Joking aside, this is a big misconception many people have about cloud storage: that cloud storage is at the whim of the provider and if the provider goes poof then your data goes poof.

That is a gross misrepresentation of services like dropbox. These services mirror locally stored files on your own hard drive.

Therefore, you retain the local storage that you always wanted, but at the same time get syncing to all your devices without having to write a separate sync client for each device.

Now if you'd like to argue against cloud storage based on security, that is fine. But if high-level security is not an issue, cloud storage provides an added benefit to, rather than a replacement of, local storage.

Why it's always wise to have multiple copies

[JonathanCombe]

Just as it's not a good idea to have a single copy of your files on a single disk it's not a good idea to have a single copy of your data in "the cloud" either. Cloud storage is useful, especially when using multiple computers but it's not a substitute for local storage and backups (but does make a good off-site backup). But you have to be prepared to switch storage providers and go through all the hassle of uploading your data again if you rely on someone else to store it. If it comes to that at least having a local copy of your files means you don't have to download them first before you can upload them again.

What?

[imagined.by]

Both of these announcements remind me why I covet local storage for documents and the ability to set my own GUI prefs.

So using online storage negates the use of local storage? What?

Re:What?

[MickyTheIdiot]

Give all your data to them! You can *always* trust a multinational corporation to do the right thing!

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you mentally challenged?

I try to be. I can see why you might prefer to avoid anything mentally challenging though. To each their own.

Re:What?

[value_added]

Shiny side in or out?

Re:What?

[MightyYar]

If you aren't polishing your tinfoil on BOTH SIDES you might as well just throw your files at the terrorists.

The Cloud and streaming

[bryan1945]

I got in an argument with essentially my whole class by saying that we never going to fully get rid of system in the home and probably at work. Everyone was "Keep the data in the cloud, we can stream anything all the time, all I need is my smartphone." They brushed off my security arguments, the fact that communications can go down, and you're really going to compose spreadsheets and reports on your smartphone? It was an MBA class, by the way.

Re:The Cloud and streaming

[gestalt_n_pepper]

It was an MBA class, by the way.
Why am I not surprised?

Re:The Cloud and streaming

[SirGarlon]

It was an MBA class, by the way.

I don't know whether to be appalled that most of the MBA class didn't get it, or delighted that one student in the MBA class did.

How big is your class? :-P

Don't sign up for iCloud

[Animats]

Don't sign up for iCloud. They'll probably drop that, too.

"Cloud" services have short lifespans. About two to four years from startup to shutdown seems typical. Google and Microsoft have both dumped many of their online services already. Telco "cloud" services, like Sprint's PictureMail, have been dumped. Many online music services from PlaysForSure to WalMart Music collapsed. Cloud APIs don't last too long, either; Yahoo Search, Yahoo Boss, Google SOAP search, and Hoover's business search are all gone or on the way out.

The shutdowns are getting faster, too. Now, 30 days from announcement to "all your data is gone" is apparently acceptable. Don't put something in the "cloud" and go on a long trip.

Re:Don't sign up for iCloud

[tlhIngan]

The shutdowns are getting faster, too. Now, 30 days from announcement to "all your data is gone" is apparently acceptable. Don't put something in the "cloud" and go on a long trip.

A long sabattical, more likely. MobileMe's shutdown was announced over a year ago (when iCloud was announced). iWork was always a beta thing with "final pricing to come later". And I think iWork.com has been around a heck of a long time - at least a couple of years (a Google-like beta). But since it was beta, you shouldn't rely on it since it can be shut down, metamorphosed or change. After all, relying on it is akin to using the Windows 8 previews as if it was final - it's going ot shut down soon enough. Heck, wasn't there a Windows 7 open beta that managed to wipe all your media files when you run it?

Interestingly, MobileMe's sync is down (the shutdown having happened), but users can still get at their files and stuff for another month or so in case they really missed every possible announcement of its shutdown.

So iWork being shut down - not a big deal (it's really migrating to iCloud so I'd be surprised if things really changed). MobileMe was a bigger deal since people paid for it, but you had over a year, and Apple did give a couple of extensions and refused to take money for expanded MobileMe services...

Is this really an issue?

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

Seriously, Apple abandoning iWork is the fundamental equivalent of dropping floppy drives.

If new computers are not going to use floppy drives then you will have to transfer them to a different storage medium if you want to access the content after the fact.

Dropping an iService is equivalent to moving your content to another form of storage, whether its physical or virtual.

What would be "nice" is for Apple to provide some kind of utility or tool to make conversion easier. iWork.com should now have a button on it to zip up and download one large file of all your content rather then having to manually move individual files to your desktop. Of, zip it up and move it to Apple's new cloud storage, or convert to new Numbers/Pages/Keynote files stored in the cloud, etc. There are about a dozen ways Apple could make this easier for people rather then just cutting the power a month from now.

Its good for old services that are not used to die and allow companies to focus on providing better services people actually use. The opposite is Windows which supports every freaking hardware and software standard on the planet even if only .1% of the people use any of it. I am sure there is still code buried deep in the Windows kernel to support 8" floppy drives.

In the long run, everybody hates change, but they always seem to love the results.

Re:Is this really an issue?

[c1t1z3nk41n3]

Yep. I remember the end of the floppy. They announced it and 30 days later removed all access to them. Your analogy sucks.

What makes less sense is the file system

[SuperKendall]

but what the heck are they going to replace it with?

You go into an app, and see the list of documents that go with that app.

Or you receive a type of document in email (or by a dropbox app) and select an application that can open a document of that type.

The file system is horribly, horribly confusing to non-technical people. If you really want to bring computing to the masses, the file system must go. I'm not sure if what Apple is doing is the best approach but the computer industry HAS to try something else.

Re:What makes less sense is the file system

[Anonymous Coward]

I seriously doubt user confusion with file systems is the reason. Most people who've grown up with computers basically understand files.

Well files, yes. I mean, they understand that Word Document 1 is separate from Document 2, and has a different name, and different contents. That's kind of like understanding files.

But a large percentage of computer users don't understand the filesystem. (And I don't mean that in the volume-format-structure sense.) Most people don't understand how to navigate to Document 1 in Windows Explorer or the Finder (or whatever) unless it's right there on the desktop. (They do understand how to find it in the Open File dialog, though--because they don't understand that the Open File dialog shows them the exact same thing as Explorer, because it looks totally different and starts from a totally different point) They don't know what a directory is (though they're able to recognize a "folder" if you point at its icon and ask them) or why they might make and use them on their own (though they can make one in an instant if you tell them to.) They don't understand the why sometimes files are moved and sometimes they are copied, they don't understand what a path is, and they don't always understand why deleting a file found in a search deletes that file from the filesystem as well.

For most people, the combination of the Desktop and the My Documents folder are the filesystem, because that's the only two nodes in the structure that they can reliably find. (And My Documents only exists in the Open File dialog!)

Re:What makes less sense is the file system

[demachina]

On Windows those tend to be the only two places most users need to find. Most users can create folders in those places, understand the concept of folders, and of folders within folders. At that point they understand file systems even if they don't understand the arcane specifics of all the other places different OS's keep files.

No doubt Apple did this because it is simpler for users, but its a simple fact they had to do it that way
because the OS and every app is sandboxed, and you don't really want general purpose file browsers or access to the whole file system when everything is sandboxed. It dramatically enhances security and maintainability if no user or app can get to the operating system's files, and apps can't get to each others files unless they go through carefully controlled protocols.

There is nothing stopping apps from having file systems of their own and subjecting users to them, Dropbox certainly does.

Re:What makes less sense is the file system

[mfnickster]

The interfaces for navigating the file system are horribly, horribly confusing to non-technical people.

There, FTFY.

There's nothing confusing about a hierarchical list of folders. People have no problem intuitively understanding that concept. Where they run into problems is clunky "Explorer" or "Finder" browser windows that show them too many options and too much information.

The classic Mac HFS file system was clunky, but it was dead easy to understand. You could put any file or folder pretty much anywhere you wanted, as long as you left the System Folder alone.

Somewhere along the line, overcomplexity wrecked the simple file system interface and made it "horribly, horribly confusing" in the name of feature-itis.

Re:What makes less sense is the file system

[cusco]

My favorites have been the three idiots I've worked with, supervisors all, who stored all their important files in the Recycle Bin.

WTH?

[geekoid]

So apple give notice the iWork is going away, moving actually, but they mention igoogle service which wasn't even the same type of thing?

Another examples of Timothy's shining idiocy.

Maybe life in the cloud is not that fluffy

[dinther]

I have taken to cloud storage in a big way and mostly quite like the convenience of it. But increasingly I am now forced to react whenever someone sneezes in Mountain View and decides to shut down something. I was affected by Google Pages to which I had links from all over the internet. I had some software downloads on that and the new Google sites is terrible. It is not so much having to move your files. The problem is that other things depend on your process and those all are affected. In the case of my free software, I could not be bothered to move the web-pages over to my server so I just deleted the whole lot.

So, I you needed normal map correction software, Lightning fast image sharing through IM you are now missing out on my free software.

I used Buzz a little, got shutdown too. Not too much of an issue but I was considering to put effort in creating a decent following on it. Glad I didn't. Also gral I never jumped on the Google Wave bandwagon either.

However, I have used iGoogle from the moment is became available and right until today that is my control center. The default home page on all my computers.
In one view I can see my appointments, emails, slashdot, bookmarks and recent google documents. Where else can I have that?

So, now the shut that down, I am forced to change the way I do things. And this is really the tip of the iceberg. On Google+ I have a personal and business page. Growing a following takes effort and time but what if they shut that down? In a smaller sense the cloud is also starting to prove downsides.

They are forever "improving" the user interface experience. This means that from one month to the next I am never quite sure how to access my Adsense control panel or other account details. Stuff changes constantly, layouts and styles change and it affects my productivity.

There are real benefits to local software. Although unused, my old Office XP will still run on my windows 7 machine without me having to re-learn how to use the software all the time and forever hunting through menus to find back a feature that I am sure is there somewhere.

I used to blame Microsoft for never sticking to anything (Enter Silverlight) but in all honesty, their OS is remarkable. It will still run very old windows code and I think they do deserve to be recognized for that. In contrast, my new Galaxy S3 android phone will no longer run a $6 racing game I purchased for my Google Nexus One two years ago.

In short: The big providers are their own worst cloud enemy because they keep changing the platform and rules of engagement. And don't give me the "But it is free what do you expect" argument. It is not free at all. I pay for it with information about me and exposure to adverts.

Re: iDontWork (prior art)

[guttentag]

Actually, NT sounds just like "en tee" = "I don't work" or "I won't do it" in Finnish.

Believe it or not, Finnish sounds just like the English word for, "I'm done with this." And Nokia is starting to sound like the English word for, "I'm SO done with this." Those crazy Finns...

They really DO have trouble understanding folders

[SuperKendall]

People have no problem intuitively understanding that concept.

Yes, they really really really REALLY really really do.

REALLY.

I've done support for family. I used to do computer support at a college. People DO NOT understand folders, nested or otherwise, and there is no amount of lipstick you can put on that pig to make it so.

This is EXACTLY what is wrong with the "cloud"

[SilverJets]

Everyone was touting the "cloud". It's the next big thing, they'd say. You can get at your stuff from anywhere, they'd say.

But you're screwed if the service gets shut down, I'd reply.

That won't happen, was their reply.

Yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

(I'm expecting Google Docs to go next.)