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Will ISPs Be Driven To Spy On Their Customers?
bs0d3 writes "In regards to the new 'voluntary' graduated response deal (where no one really knows how ISPs will track and accuse customers of copyright infringement), according to CNN, it may be the ISP directly spying on their customers. 'But now that they're free from individual blame, there's also the strong possibility that the ISPs will be doing the data monitoring directly. That's a much bigger deal. So instead of reaching out to the Internet to track down illegally flowing bits of their movies, the studios will sit back while ISP's "sniff" the packets of data coming to and from their customers' computers.' This could be a problem for people who use U.S.-based internet services. If the U.S. wants to be an internet savvy country, they still need the competition in the marketplace that's always been missing, and a digital bill of rights that isn't a sneaky anti-piracy measure."
yes
You can't handle the truth.
Computers are fast enough... there's barely any CPU overhead anymore.
Freenet will get more users!
Really? Anyone? Really believes that the ISP are protecting you? Your privacy? With claws and fangs?
That only works when you have more than one to choose from. Where I am at you have the cable monopoly and AT&T who couldn't even keep dial-tone service working 3 days in a row let alone dsl (which caps out at 128 up 768 down!).
Mycroft
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
I can understand why the RIAA and MPAA would be interested in this happening, by why would an ISP want to do this? The act of monitoring the activity of their customers requires a lot of dedication to packet capturing and inspection which would cost a lot of money. From a business standpoint, embarking on this conquest to monitor every single customer is a bad idea because no revenue will be generated by doing this. The only reason I can think of for ISP's to do this is that they are being paid to do so by the RIAA and MPAA, that is the only way they would spend money on this program when it does not generate more revenue from their customers. So what is happening here is two big industries are paying members of another industry to violate the privacy of their customers for financial gain. I wonder where we will see this next if this succeeds. Perhaps the porn industry will pay ISP's to track their customers porn habits so that they can effectively market to those individuals. There is a wide variety of possibilities so long as they isn't illegal. You could argue that pirating is illegal and that is why this differs from other situations, but who the hell made the RIAA and MPAA into legal institutions? They aren't getting court orders to have ISP's snoop on customers, there is no court system here.
Fact:
First, there is no law requiring any action on the part of any ISP.
Disclosure: I participate in running an ISP, but not one of the ones involved in this.
Fact:
Some large national carriers have agreed to do some things. "Agreed" and "partnership" have no legal meaning. "An agreement is yet to be signed." is in the OP's link and that gives us an idea that in the future there MAY be an agreement. For now, should it happen, it's voluntary.
Fact:
No law of any jurisdiction in the United States currently requires any ISP to provide any content monitoring. The only requirements close to that are to allow Law Enforcement access should they have the right to it -- CALEA.
Opinion:
It would be counter to the AOL decision (Zeran v AOL) that an ISP is responsible for either monitoring content, taking action based on content, or being liable for content or failing to take action based on content. That's a fourth-circuit decision that makes it likely that any ISP that doesn't want to join the "partnership" with the MPAA/RIAA can easily not opt-in to their program. Note that I didn't say "opt-out" because that would beg the question of whether there's a requirement to join.
Looking forward, I can guess that our "friends" in the MPAA/RIAA will continue their program to CHANGE THE LAW through spending lots of money, lobbying, using the influence of former senator Dodd, etc. If they can get the law to require ISPs to do so, and thereby trump the 4th circuit's AOL decision, then there will be a concern.
However, as Sonic.net's CEO Dane Jasper said ISPs should keep as little logs as possible, preferably under two weeks. That would make it difficult unless they are doing real-time DPI, analysis, investigation, and sending out C&D letters for any of this to have meaning.
While the resources necessary for ISPs to provide access under CALEA are minimal ("Here's your Ethernet port, have a nice day, Feds") the requirement to do DPI for hundreds of gigabits-per-second of data is beyond onerous -- if even achievable. Consider -- it's not just that an ISP has to monitor their "upstream" pipes, but also customer-to-customer. The amount of bandwidth inside each ISP's core is immense.
Sorry to be long-winded, but having read the other responses, I see a lot of D&G and nay-saying. I agree that the landscape is pretty harsh, and the earth is getting scorched. I see hope because I see that we have defeated SOPA, PIPA, ACTA, (and yes I know the TPP is still alive) and we can likely continue to teach our congressional non-representatives that when the majority of the country doesn't want something ... it's likely not something they should support in our name.
Ehud
That is all well, but the US is not a free market when it comes to ISPs because the government gave out massive amounts of moneys to large corporations to "modernize" the US which means that in many areas there are only 1 or 2 ISPs, both megacorporations and no other ISP can compete with them either by law or because they already had such a large competitive advantage by having all the infrastructure basically paid for by theft (taxes). We need to not make this mistake again and cut off all taxpayer support to ISPs and other private companies in order to allow the free market to work, otherwise you have a mess like we have today.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
The difference is the USPS is a government sponsored monopoly where legally you cannot compete with them. If they decide to increase the price of stamps to $15 a piece, they can do that and there's not much that anyone can do about it since it is illegal to deliver mail except by the USPS.
In fact, a guy named Lysander Spooner made a competitor to the US post office called the American Letter Mail Company, it did everything better than the USPS, faster delivery, cheaper rates, less waste, etc. but it was shut down because of the monopoly that the USPS has.
ISPs are not the same. While arguably many have monopoly status due to the fact that the government gave them massive amounts of money to "modernize" the US, there is nothing preventing me from starting a better, more privacy friendly ISP aside from the startup costs.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Big startup costs. Unlike in Europe where our regulators can to some extent compel it, no existing ISP is going to let you use their cables - so you'd have to get roads dug up and cable laid. After which you are left competing with an incumbant, so you're already at a disadvantage: Switching ISPs is a hastle, and people already on the established provider will need a very compelling reason. You are free to start up your own ISP - but only a fool would invest in it.
The CNN link is an opinion piece where the author dreams up a scenario of ISP content inspection not supported by any external evidence.
I can sit on my lazy ass all day and dream shit up too. This does not mean I should be expected to be taken seriously.
Where is the actual evidence this is being implemented or even seriously contemplated by any stakeholder?
In the interim I'm just going to sit back and wait for the lawsuits to start flying against ISPs for cutting off their paying customers without due process.
The other is the back-doors on every incoming hub http://www.cablemap.info/
I have plenty of choices. Let's see... Comcast, Comcast, and Comcast! Oh, and Comcast, too! Unfortunately, AT&T isn't in the area yet, but there are still plenty of choices!
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
That just gets passed along to the consumer.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
CALEA applies to Internet communication.
Pen/Trace - asking for email headers and IP headers but not content.
Full detail - asking for actual dump of bidirectional communication from a specific IP address or address-range.
See ISPs can be requested to forward all traffic...
or a company that helps ISPs comply...
or this has been a law since 2007...
To find these things check out this link.
Fact: I appreciate your copying my style. However, when doing so, please ensure that after the word "Fact:" comes a fact.
Ehud
This so off-topic as to be absurd.
Jane Q Public: You wrote "Fact: CALEA applies only to telephony; to date, it does not apply to the internet at all. "
Note: You didn't say "content" but later you clarified you meant it in context to imply content.
That's fine. Now go back and read my response where I pointed out that Federal agencies HAVE and DO request
[with court orders] pen/trace on email headers and IP packets.
I also appreciate that you labeled the three links I gave and a google search result (which has many more)
as "liberal University[sic] professors and journalists" but your ad-hominem attack only detracts from any claim you might have.
I know the EFF is wonderful, and I support them financially and use their 4th am. packing tape to seal my packages.
Unfortunately your lack of knowledge and insisitence that the EFF is the only source of knowledge despite "liberal
University[sic] professors and jounralists] is of no positive value in this discussion.
Finally, having personally been presented these court orders (and no, these were not National Security Letters;
these were plain old "Tap this, send us this" orders) by US three-letter agencies, I know it to be fact.
Stick to the facts, maam*.
E
* The real facts, not opinion, not ad-hominem attacks, not straw-man arguments, not anything.
My goal was to prevent disinformation -- THE EXACT THING YOU ARE NOW DOING. Stop it please and go time out.
Yes, it's a different situation, but that does not change the law. Deep packet inspection is illegal. It doesn't matter WHY you are doing it, unless it's called for by a judicial warrant.
You misunderstand. It's illegal if You or I do it, it's not illegal if any part of the government does it.