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Valve Will Let Gamers Pick Games To Appear On Steam
Valve has announced a new system called Greenlight, which will allow the gaming community to select which games get chosen for distribution via Steam. Developers will post information about their games — this can be screenshots and videos, or even concepts and potential game mechanics for titles still in development. Once posted, the Steam community will be able to vote on which ones are the best. This will prioritize which games become available on Steam first. Greenlight is Valve's attempt to solve what they call an "intractable problem" — figuring out ahead of time what games players will like. They also hope to facilitate the development of interesting games. "We think it's going to encourage this virtuous development cycle. The problem we had of, how do we encourage somebody when they're not done developing yet? This we think will work. We think a bunch of people will be looking at it going, 'oh my gosh, I want that.'"
I pick Episode 3.
Basing this on the fact that there are quite a few rather lame games on steam, I'd say this is welcome. I'd vote!
1) Kickstarter effect, developers can see what the fans are craving and can use it to get funding.
2) "Hey, don't blame us. You picked it!"
by Anonymous Coward: I, for one, welcome the shift from car analogies to pizza analogies. um.. overlords?
Featuring busty protagonists who find the skimpiest possible clothing to wear, even in what would normally be a formal situation.
Seems like this is just advertising. Go watch ads and tell us which ones are good. It's not as if there is a limit to what can be released or when.
I'm old and jaded though. I stick to free roguelikes and muds.
What happens if my game never gets accepted?
Your game will remain on Greenlight unless you decide to take it down.
Ugh. At least make them renew it every X months. This is gonna get filled up with dreck fast, and then only the most popular will get votes because that's all anyone will be able to find. Not to mention I don't want to vote for any abandoned projects.
What makes their problem intractable? What is the marginal cost of publishing a game on Steam, once that game is fully produced and (presumably) ready to be sold on a DVD/BD? If their business process or technology makes it's very expensive to publish via Steam such that they have to go through an editorial process to insure highly salable content, then I think the problem is not with the editorial process but the underlying publishing technology/process.
Perhaps I don't understand the intricacies; how is this different than publishing a game via the Android or Apple app stores? Why can't a developer just upload their binaries to Valve/Steam and let people buy what they want? Why is voting twice (first in Greenlight, then next by buying the game) better than voting once? If anything, I think this would cause less games to get made as developers abandon projects that get a lukewarm response via Greenlight, either because of bad presentation by the developer; stiff competition for eyeballs at the time they upload their concept art, etc.; or simply because people didn't see it because there is a lot of pre-release content to sift through.
Ceci n'est pas un sig.
Calling people "sheep" for not matching your views perfectly (and yes, that IS the only reason it's ever done) proves you to be more "sheeplike" than the people at whom you're hurling that teenybopper invective.
if its on steam, chances are its better than the alternatives (origins, blizzard's always online thing, etc).
Bioware had "leave the dvd in" if you played Dragon Age, but now that a lot of people are using laptops and dvd drives may be disappearing in the forseeable future (see: retina mbp, mb air), an online option is desirable. (they even were relatively reasonable on selling used copies - just that you wouldn't get some DLC which was desirable)
Good luck with your not buying into DRM - its not going to wither away and die, because frankly, not enough people care. I'll still buy a good game so long as it works and isn't overly intrusive.
Can we vote to prioritize Linux versions? I'm sure the Apple guys would like a button to prioritize games (that already exist on steam) to get OSX versions as well.
Window shopping + Beta testers?
I think that you'll get a lot of participation in this "pre game" rating thing, but ultimately, the people who have strong opinions will not necessarily be the people who will buy. And keeping creative control will be difficult. You might get random backlash...
People will boycott the game because a developer said "no" to having a god mode or what have you.
Sounds like more trouble than it's worth.
it continues to amaze me that they become such sheep when Steam is mentioned.
I'm not sure sheep is really the right word here. Fairly certain most, if not everyone, on /. who uses Steam (myself included) are well aware that it is DRM. Hypocrite would seem to be a better word, though even then I would have to disagree. Finding some instances of DRM to be deplorable but other forms to be acceptable does not a hypocrite make.
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
I pick Episode 3.
I thought LEGO Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith was already on Steam, as part of the VI-pack.
Because Steam DRM is "consumer-friendly".
It doesn't encrypt anything except unreleased, pre-loaded content (which is decrypted when the game is actually released). .exe - I copied the DLC files from my Steam install of Oblivion to my retail install of Oblivion with no problems (it was cheaper to buy the "Deluxe" all-DLC-included version on Steam than to buy all the DRM alone).
It allows you to go into offline mode, and to back up your games to DVD.
It doesn't itself restrict anything except the
It includes a notice on any game that includes additional DRM
It doesn't do any spying other than the opt-in Steam Hardware Survey
It tries to be a beneficial service, including chat and modding features
It hosts, for free and without DRM, user-created mods for several games
It supports OS X, and is expected to shortly support Linux
It does not in practice restrict what you can do with your data (the ban on sharing, trading or selling accounts is not strictly enforced)
Valve has pledged to, should they go out of business, release a DRM-remover for any games they legally can. (and Steam is easily broken, if you wish to)
So given a choice between "not getting the game at all", "pirating the game", "buying it on Steam" or "buying it on some far more DRM-encumbered platform", is it really a wonder that people choose "buy on Steam"?
Yes, in theory, everyone should boycott DRM. But this is the Real World, and out here, you have to make compromises. Steam is the best compromise solution - it eliminates or ameliorates the problems with DRM, but still placates the corporations' concerns about digital distribution and "piracy".
The thing about Steams DRM/Platform is its not all that bad
1 they are semi cool about redownloading games
2 they include a patching service
3 it works well and does not trash most systems in the process
4 you buy in some cases multiplatform versions (i think some games if you buy the windows version but log into a Mac system it will download the Mac Version)
in cases where a publisher does not ADD DRM on top (or otherwise futz with things) it looks to be the best setup around for DRM Platforms.
So Steam is like a True Professional doing a hit on you Yah you end up dead but at least you are DEAD AND GONE not jammed into some hospital bed wondering why the pain meds don't work or crippled or...
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
What about Steams summer sale.
You might be surprised. Not so much here, but on a few game forums I frequent, it's head-deskingly painful how often someone will decry Steam's DRM and get a slew of "it's not REALLY DRM" excuses, plus the new Diablo III favorite "Get a real internet connection, looser[sic]!"
I look forward to seeing the first games featuring Pedobear and/or Goatse.
I'm not certain it's hypocrisy, as much as acknowledging DRM done well (not right, just well). -- at least this way I can trade a game or play offline if I want to!
As a side note, I'm not excited that this is the way the world is going, because I live in BFE, and my internet connection is T.E.R.R.I.B.L.E. at best, and suicide inducing at worst.
Snakes on a Plane
-- Conserve binary trees; recycle your email. --
http://www.grimdawn.com/
the new Diablo III favorite "Get a real internet connection, looser[sic]!"
This is my favorite, because it is very suburban/urban centered, and is easily argued against by pointing out that not everyone lives in urban areas. It is my favorite, because that line of conversation invariably leads to my second favorite pearl of wisdom, "WELL, if you don't like crappy internet, move out of the country."
It's as if people don't understand where food comes from, that the people who make that food also enjoy/have a use for technology, and that the countryside isn't actually full of castles, serfs and fucking mud farms.
Indeed. When you look at a lot of the "other" gaming companies out there, Steam/Valve seems to generally be the most customer-centric. They make a lot of effort into providing useful services to their customers.
Other companies' foray in the world of DRM has met with broken CD-ROM drives, unplayable games, and a generally lousy customer experience.
Steam is making inroads to embrace a wider market and is quite supportive of indie-style games. IMHO, others seem to have opted for a poor parody of the Steam platform, but nobody else really comes close.
My only real complain with steam is that all games are locked to a single account on a single PC (e.g. I can't have two games across one account active on two different systems). Well, that and I'd really like to see HL2e3 (or HL3) come out sometime soon :-)
won't buy or play the last installment unless it's either on Steam, or free
Why would I want the best games incumbered by Steams DRM? I refuse to buy any game with this DRM, and if enough people did then DRM would wither and die. Most of the /. community seems to understand the evils of DRM, it continues to amaze me that they become such sheep when Steam is mentioned.
I guess one man's flamebait is another man's insightful. I do like Steam and have a few games on it, but the consolation I had to make when getting those games is that one day they'll suddenly disappear.
I have the same concern that the original poster has about us getting lured in with candy. It's worthy of discussion, therefore not flamebait.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
What was wrong with the previous method of having ALL games available?
I finished pretty much every FPS released since 10 years and loved them all. I have to say, they all pretty much have big differences. I wouldn't call any "generic".
You forgot that the DRM is mostly in furtherance of the primary benefit to consumers, namely that it allows you to redownload your games anywhere you want, as quickly as your internet will go. Without DRM, it's effectively a free-for-all, since Steam works by basically allowing anybody to get the files, but not be able to use them unless the account is authorized. A friend can log into your machine with his account, download and play one of his games, and it'll still show up in the list on your machine, but your account can't play it. That's the extent of (Valve's) DRM on Steam, and without it they'd have to massively redesign the service (to strongly authenticate downloads) or just give their games away.
tl;dr - Valve's DRM is really a consequence of their download-easily-and-everywhere model. Even if you don't agree with it, you can't deny that Valve gives you a desirable feature with their DRM, where most companies just take things away.
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
If we can vote games onto the steam platform then we should be able to downvote them off. I look forward to the day when Activision games aren't available at all.
I don't think the Steam Hardware Survey is opt-in. AFAIK, there's no way to not have it collect all of the info about your machine. Including a list of installed programs.
Except they have the most draconian DRM system ever invented in the history of man: all you purchase is a revocable once-billed subscription to a license of a game. That means you don't have first sale rights or any rights under copyright law. That means you don't even own a license. Valve owns your license, and all you have is an active subscription to the game via Valve. Non-ownership of paid for merchandise is far beyond anything else you listed.
It does not matter what Valve puts on Steam. I will never purchase another game via Steam. I will always purchase the game in such a manner that I have rights and own a copy, then I will add the game to Steam. I do not need a potentially illegal DRM system controlling my access to things I purchase.
Its legality is questionable since all Valve employees and even Steam's own store website use terms such as "buy" and "purchase" and "game" instead of "subscribe" and "Valve owned license," yet in their legal verbage they refer only to subscriptions, never mentioning purchased products. "People who bought game X also bought the following: " -- this is misleading since technically nobody on Steam has ever actually purchased a game through steam.
Just to point out, what Steam does is the epitome of anti-consumer. You have NO consumer rights, whatsoever, over anything you "purchase" on Steam.
Why the need to limit it? Just only feature the good ones prominently.
What an ovine response.
I guess one man's flamebait is another man's insightful.
True, but bandying words like "sheep" does tend to tip the balance for some people. If someone makes an insightful point but does it in such a way as to sound like a hot-headed ass then obviously they're less likely to get the +1 they deserve. (Not a comment on the parent, BTW, just in general.)
Incidentally, if you trust Gabe the last thing Valve will do before going bust will be to release a master key or something to remove the DRM on games. Mind you, I think he said that before 3rd party games were sold so I'd take that with a rather large pinch of salt.
If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
I'm certain your presence will be missed.
It would be interesting if this could be leveraged to enable boycotting of games that are slated to use nasty drm or are made by less liked companies. I doubt it would end up seriously happening, but it would be interesting to see how things go, if all games go through this for initial approval. The vocal people tend to be those with strong opinions, after all.
It's about damn time... My first vote goes for No Time to Explain.
Which is a Kickstarter funded game that's better in quality and humour than many games on Steam, but was rejected for some unknown reason -- I can only assume the Steam folks are intractable morons: This game is awesome, and I know of many indie devs with the same story, "Everyone likes my game, except Steam reviewers." I've met folks who only buy games if they are on Steam, I've also met folks who only shop at Walmart... Neither situation is all that good for creators of content, or their intended audiences.
I'd say that you can play those games offline as long as you keep your steam folder intact. It's not like that will suddenly disappear. Unless, of course, Gabe goes crazy and pushes an update wiping your steam folder.
Vendetta Online!!!!
3d first person space combat(a la freelancer/xwing series/etc) MMO that runs on windows, mac, linux, and android tablets? Heck yeah.
#include <disclaimer.h>
Weird, I distinctly remember opting into it. And a bit of Googling brings up the same results.
It actually doesn't even give everyone a chance to opt-in - when they do a new survey, they randomly select people to have a chance to participate. So no, it does not default to spying on you.
Steam's subscription model is anti-consumer; that itself is sufficient to warrant dismissal of Steam as a valid outlet for purchasing games, regardless of any DRM they impose, be it permissive or not. You don't have any rights to that content outside of what Valve says you can do with it (sure, you can run it offline and you can make backups to save us money on bandwidth, but nope, you can never resell it, or run it without steam, because you don't own the copy!). Nope. Buy games THEN put them on Steam. Never the other way around.
So long as we define "DRM done right" as "no DRM at all."
I've owned many Steam games for years. I have never had any problem at all with them. While what you say is technically true, experience has shown me that it's more of a conspiracy theory than anything substantial to worry about.
Valve is no EA, they're no Ubisoft, they're no Activision/Blizzard. I trust Valve. And I think Valve knows that a lot of their company is built on goodwill and trust from gamers.
Until I see Valve treat their customers like shit, I'm going to keep buying games on Steam in preference to every single other form of distribution. Why? Because I can have access to AAA titles for $5 on sale when that same title costs $20 in the store.
:(){
Buy a game and have it not work. Valve will "troubleshoot" for you and then tell you to go fuck yourself. Do that to a legitimate software retailer and they'll give you a refund. Buy a car, have it not work, take it back to the dealer and they'll fix it or give you another one, or a refund. Buy a new computer, have a part that's defective, get it replaced or get a refund. Hell, buy a new computer, sell your old one to someone else. Have you tried selling a CS 1.6 copy on Steam to another person? Hint: you can't. Whoops.
Buy a game on steam, have it not work, be told there are no refunds and that they can't do anything about it. And legally, they aren't obligated to either, because they sold you a subscription to a license, and they upheld their end of the bargain.
It's up to the consumer to decide whether they trust Valve or not, though there should be a very clear disclaimer that you never actually buy a game through Steam, and if one day GabeN decided to shut down Steam, nothing you purchased through Steam would ever work again, but if you buy games THEN add them to Steam, you still get everything, and if you ever decide you want to sell a game, you can do that too. I'm not even certain their business model is legal, as I can't find any court cases where it's been challenged, but Valve is basically writing their own laws, so I have to think it's probably not.
Great idea but it assumes customers know what they want...
I strongly disagree. You don't have to buy with Steam - why not GOG.com? They won't have quite the selection sure, but are you honestly going to tell me you have the time available to play all the games you want anyway? Shit, there's plenty of people who buy during Steam sales as an impulse purchase and never get around to playing their games, and GOG.com has recently had a string of sales and continues to do so as well, so you'll always have something to play.
As for the games themselves, well GOG has Alan Wake + American Nightmare, so they are starting to improve with having big new titles (AW and the mini-expansion appears on GOG and Steam at the same time). It's not like the newer games are magically better than older ones I've never played, so the outcome is the same to me anyway. Plus you get extras not available with Steam.
And... you don't get DRM. I refuse to bind all my software purchases to a single account that may at some point reject my authentication for any number of reasons, or the company may be sold out of private hands to a less respectable corporation (think EA/Activision) who then changes the terms of Steam to something less palatable, etc. I just can't resolve not having control over the stuff I purchase. I don't care what "pledge" Valve have stated about going out of business - when the creditors come they won't care. You can't guarantee anything unless it's codified in a legal document somewhere, and I don't like the idea of having to crack my games should this single point of failure (i.e. Valve) cause me to be unable to play the games I purchased.
Yes it's a minority viewpoint and yes this idea of giving up control of your software to a third-party is the way the world's heading, but I don't have to fucking follow it.
Most people on Slashdot are fucking idiots.
Forget it. When you've got a minority viewpoint (e.g. not trusting Steam) it's extremely hard to get anyone to listen and those that do already have their mind set and would rather joke about you "missing out" rather than seriously consider your words. There's something about games that gets even Slashdotters to forget their anti-DRM principles - as if they can't non-DRM games from somewhere else legally, but they chose not to because they can't handle not having the latest regenerating-health shooter.
Most people on Slashdot are fucking idiots.
I don't think you 'own' Windows, other games, music CDs, the DVDs and BluRays you have in your collection, the books you read, etc etc. Not 'own' in the sense that you can run off copies and distribute them yourself, pocketing the cash. With those products you have a 'licence to use'. Steam is the same.
From your post, (I will never purchase another game via Steam), it sounds like you had a bad experience with Steam. What was it?
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
Agreed, however I suspect in a few years time, assuming that Steam continues to succeed and dominate digital distribution, that there will be complaints about it being a monolopy, its current competitors offer a similar service however they are denounced as the common opinion is "i must have it on steam", so that its "all in one place".
My issues with the Steam store are, and take your pick:
And many more I don't care to type on my iPhone. Steam is a fine tool for social gaming and game management, but the business model used by the Steam store is just unacceptable.
All those things (except for the user created mods i suppose) could be said about Circuit-city DIVX.
If circuit city tried that shit today... you guys would roll right over for them.
From my experiance in US, I could never return a "buggy" copy to a shop. Where do you live where you can return an open PC game copy?
The three last games I bought (DVDs) just installed Steam on insertion.. I'm not sure if they're even playable without Steam (Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas and Dirt 3 ).
Also, I use wine and most tutorials are Steam-centric..
Defining Statistics and Social Research
Btw, buying the same games on Steam costs 10% of the DVDs..
Defining Statistics and Social Research
3- Try to limit the Desura success with all those indie games and alpha-funding projects. It it grows too much, it might eat some of the steam market
for me Desura already own my loyalty, they build the linux support first and have many fun games and have a open source client...
aahhh!!, what competition can do! everyone wins!! :)
Higuita
When can you EVER return software because it's buggy?
I on the other hand have often saved 10€ by ordering physical product instead of buying directly from Steam... go figure. Same goes for Diablo3 as well, trying to buy it from Blizzard directly would cost you actually more than ordering physical disc then getting it to your account.
-D1
nice captcha: jealous
You have to run Steam even in wine to run any game you purchased through the Steam Store. You still have to run it. If you own the game separately and it has wine support, it's trivial to run it on OSX or Linux.
But you can sell that DVD copy back to the store or to another person, in general, and it's becoming a trend now to consider licenses re-sellable too, so account-bound DRM (aka Digital Rights Removal) will be either illegal or must facilitate the trade of licenses in the future (in the EU now, probably in NA soon enough). I buy an MMO, play it for 3 months, farm everything out, and I can usually sell my account for more money than I paid to play the game in total.
And that's JUST analyzing my cost. It's even cheaper for the purchasers of used games, because they too can re-sell it, and over time it gets even lower than the cost of buying a game on Steam.