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US "the Enemy" Says Dotcom Judge
First time accepted submitter Flere Imsaho writes "During the NetHui Internet conference last week, the NZ judge to hear the Dotcom extradition case was speaking on the Trans Pacific Partnership agreement and how the U.S. entertainment industry is pushing to make region code hacking illegal, when he said 'Under TPP and the American Digital Millennium copyright provisions you will not be able to do that, that will be prohibited ... if you do you will be a criminal — that's what will happen. Even before the 2008 amendments it wasn't criminalized. There are all sorts of ways this whole thing is being ramped up and if I could use Russell [Brown's] tweet from earlier on: we have met the enemy and he is [the] U.S.'"
And even if your country doesn't have a DMCA (and they WILL soon, if not already), don't think for a second that the U.S. can't extradite you here for punishment anyway, or that your government won't fall to its knees like a trained lapdog when the FBI snaps their fingers and says "Put him on a plane."
The sooner you people accept that the U.S. is large and in-fucking-charge, the easier it will go for all of us.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
If you buy music produced in the US you buy it under the terms of the license. Don't like those terms? Buy music produced elsewhere.
I know that this is normally a forum to bash **AA, but the fact still remains that Kim Dotcom made his fortune by providing a service that was used to circumvent paying for content. Never did he even attempt to stop this illegal activity, and at times, promoted it. People like to talk about how the rich make there fortune off the backs of the working class... this guy is your poster child.
Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
It's at least true in Aus that it is illegal to lock things down to a region.
Make cracking the region locks illegal but make every region coded item illegal too. And put equal effort into persuit of the wrongdoers in each case.
Does NZ have the same law? Seems likely. In which case: sorted.
We read "US" as "us", same as "we". It's the United States of America, not the United States.
And by the way, American means someone from America, not someone from the USA.
Dotcom is a comparatively little guy who had his own service and when the sh-t hit the fan didn't have anybody else in his corner. His antics and courtroom theatrics aside, what separates him from Youtube? An 800 pound gorilla named Google. People upload copyrighted material to Youtube every day but Google somehow makes it all right.
Is Google more responsive to takedown notices than megaupload? Is there more infringing material on one service vs. the other?
My opinion is Megaupload's biggest problem in the end is they never made friends in high places.
-- Walt Kelly
I heard "we met the enemy, and he is us" a million times before I bothered checking out the full quote, and I think it's kind of a shame to truncate it like that.
(and yes, I know this is off-topic, I don't care :D)
You seem to be treating legality in the area of copyright as a natural law of physics and carved on tablets of stone. Well it's neither, and everything is in a state of flux..
The law in this area was never subject to public approval in any country, and it runs totally contrary to how the VAST majority of people seem to feel about it when asked. Instead it was developed through intense lobbying of politicians by content creators in a completely one-sided manner. What's more, much of it was developed out of the public eye and turned into law through a process of direct bribery, particularly in the US where bribery is legal and called "campaign contributions".
So while you're factually correct in calling it "illegal" by US law, it's only "illegal" because this totally corrupt and non-democratic system has defined "illegal" to suit itself. It may be illegal in your country, but it's not illegal everywhere, and it's regarded as "wrong" by only a small percentage of the world's population.
Things aren't as clearcut as you make out.
The only people that are affected by region codes are people who want to want to watch foreign dvds often stuff that has never been released and never will be in other parts of the world. Often stuff purchased legally on vacation.
And yet the USA by their actions make him look saintly
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
People have a problem with the USA when we start applying our laws in other countries, and rightly so. New Zealand has a legitimate, democratic government that creates its laws, so what business do we have trying to extradite NZ citizens for violations of US law that did not occur in the US?
Yeah, blah blah blah, he registered a US domain name. If we start using the Internet as a vehicle for applying our out-of-control legal code in other countries, we are just going to make more enemies.
Palm trees and 8
No, but if someone buys a DVD while abroad, and brings it home only to find out that they're not allowed to watch it (since the American copyright groups are pushing to have breaking the region encoding declared a criminal act) then they're expected to sit there with a dud DVD and not play it.
This isn't about getting the content without paying for them. This is about taking a good you bought, and using it where you live.
Breaking the region encoding just allows you to play a product you legally purchased, and legally brought home without waiting for the same product to be re-released where you live.
America is basically trying to export laws which strip the right of first sale and other fair use rights they already enjoy.
There's a huge difference between that and what you describe.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Suppose that some arab country starts accusing and claiming extraditions of women all around the world because them commited adultery. Or that Sweden do the same with all men all around the world that had sex with a sleeping woman. Or a country with a corrupt government, where shady men or private companies pushes laws for criminalize people that drinks coke or read certain books, that exports that laws to all the world and claims extradition for people breaking that laws elsewhere.
That is what is doing USA, and that is what other governments are letting them to do while signing "cooperating treaties". I suppose that yes, the enemy is us, or at least USA and the people in your government that signed that kind of treaty.
I will say that the US media industry and content providers have gotten way too powerful. What's worse is that there is little to no checks or balances against this power. But, in their greed, the industry has created an opportunity for a bourgeoning Indie media growth spree. The Internet makes an awesome distribution platform, so there can be Indie television shows and movies without the big studios greedy, restrictive hands in the pot. This is why I check out platforms like Vimeo for the Indie stuff. Much of it is surprisingly good. I would love for Indie to move beyond podcasting.
Show me SOMETHING that is made inthe USA.
Ford? Nope China parts, Assembled in canada and mexico.
GM? as china as you can get.
Honda? Yes they are more american than any american car brand, but parts are still China
Computer? China
Beer? China... for the cans. Your all american Budwiser is in a China made aluminum.
China, china, china. NOTHING you buy in a supermarket or big box store is made inthe USA.
Want USA made? local small artisan or maker. is your only choice. What that does is makes my Coffee Cup go from $3.95 to $16.99. Any my glass drinking glasses, I cant get the $1.99 each china junk. I have to pay a glass artist $22.50 each for them.
I am fine with it, but all the "BUY AMERICAN" morons dont walk the walk but they shoot off their mouths.
BUY AMERICAN means you never set foot in ANY big box store. You buy your clothing from a local tailor. You ready to pay $35.00 for a t-shirt that a seamstress will make custom for you? Want new Silverware? $15.00 a piece from your local Metal Artist.
The biggest problem is these BUY AMERICAN loudmouths also ride Harley Davidson bikes, which are mostly China parts. The Loudmouths wont do what they say. It's why Harley's are all china parts and soon to be BUILT in china. It's why Indian went out of business. Because these LOUDMOUTHS dont do what they say others should do.
They wont pay the cost if buying all american.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
NZ brings in more money selling music in the US than the other way around. And there are plenty of NZ artists that are signed under Broadcast Music, Inc (BMI). NZ citizens currently benefits from the laws and organizations of the US. But I guess everyone eventually complains after making a deal with the devil.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Wow does this sort of behavior by my government get me riled up.
The whole system we have set up here where the Govt passes legislature helping out lobbyists (in this case is so broken it's not even funny. I wouldn't go so far to say we are the sole enemy, but we definitely are not helping the situation.
I am 25, and the majority of my friends are way too busy trying to wiggle out from debt or job hunting in a stagnant environment to make their voices be heard (unless wikipedia shuts down). Seeing as it costs time and money to make sure you actually get a seat at the table, it seems to me that a huge number of our generation is grossly misrepresented.
Is there someone/something out there that is working to involve our young adults in foreign and domestic politics... as opposed to telling them what to do/not to do? I cannot put it as eloquently as Jon Stewart did, but our problems are only going to expand if we let people who refer to our type as "nerds" run the country.
We need to either a. Set up a strong lobby group to oppose heavy handed corporate driven legislature or b. change the system in it's entirety.
Weed is still an American commodity! You'd like to BUY USA? Get a locally made bong and locally grown weed.
You know something? The more I read about Kim Dotcom, the more I get the idea "shady character" doesn't really fit him neatly. He reminds me much more of some of the "old school" computer geeks I knew from back in the mid 1980's and still run into occasionally. Many of them have a burning desire to make something of their lives ... to do something memorable, within the realm of what their talents are. They're a little eccentric or "off beat" by mainstream society's standards, sure. And maybe some of them are a bit guilty of being a little too materialistic. (But some of that simply comes with the territory of being interested in technology, IMO. If you spend much of your time working with computers and tech. - you develop an appreciation for all of those physical gadgets and devices that other people may not really have. It extends out towards all manner of complex machines and devices, too. Lots of I.T. hardware guys I know also get very interested in sports cars, for example. Even though they're not "gear heads" in the sense of putting in thousands of hours in someone's garage taking apart engines and transmissions? They appreciate the work that goes into building such a machine, and desire one of their own -- the same way they want the fastest PC out there, even if they don't really have a NEED for one that performs quite that well.)
Dotcom strikes me as all of the above, with a need to be recognized.... to be a "celebrity" of sorts, within his own circle of fellow geeks at least. (The fact he'd change his last name to Dotcom, alone, tells you how much he wants to be noticed as a "guru" in his field of interest.)
He was recently seen in photos hanging out with Steve Wozniak ... with Woz having nothing but good things to say about him. That's not quite what I'd expect if the guy was just your run of the mill online scammer, trying to make his fortune at everyone else's expense.
It's govt. and big media wanting you to think of this guy as something like a foreign leader of a drug cartel ....
His argument isn't that confusing; it's just that his grammar sucks. I try not to be a Grammar Nazi, but sometimes clear communication is impossible when people don't even *try* to get it right.
Translation in a nutshell: "When you buy cheap, outsourced Chinese products by buying at Amazon and Walmart, you hurt the American economy by not supporting local producers and manufacturers. If local producers and manufacturers can't compete with those in places like China, the money going to China to purchase those products -- instead of staying in the local economy -- will eventually be reflected in *your* personal wealth as well."
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
I'm sorry, but just because the plastic containers aren't made in the US, that doesn't mean that the dairy processor in my city is outsourcing its work, or that the farmers they get milk from are outside the US.
We live in a global economy, and I would hate to have to revert back to only a local economy.
I love that I can get fresh produce year-round, and that I can wash it down with Scotch whisky.
Weed is still an American commodity!
You'd like to BUY USA? Get a locally made bong and locally grown weed.
Mexican, mostly, as I understand it.
Admit nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-accusations.
Pretty much.
."
In the early '90s, Chrysler ran a huge "Buy American!" campaign. The radio and TV (at least where I live) was blasted with ads about buying "Made in America" rather than buying imports, and the local Dodge/Chrysler dealer took out a huge full page ad dredging up memories of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor FIFTY FREAKING YEARS AGO. Shortly afterwards, my dad bought a brand new Dodge Ram Charger (guess the ads worked, sigh...). I looked inside the door, and guess what was stamped in the door frame?
Wait for it...
"Made in MEXICO
Well...I guess Mexico IS on the North American continent, so *technically* it wasn't false advertising. But IMHO, it certainly was deceptive.
Friggen' hypocrites
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
I do logistics work for automotive parts manufacturers. Forgive me if I cannot post in an account. I will tell you what I know.
Ford? Nope China parts, Assembled in canada and mexico.
Various bits made in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, and Canada. Shipped to various states, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Germany, and China.
Some vehicles are made local, some are not. Local variants elsewhere in the world are assembled there with parts made here.
GM? as china as you can get.
Nearly identical to Ford. More parts are shipped to Michigan from Germany, combined with local bits, then shipped various places. Including back to a different company in Germany (this happens nationally as well with great frequency).
Honda? Yes they are more american than any american car brand, but parts are still China
In my line of work I handle no proprietary Honda parts manufactured in the United States. Toyota on the other hand is the biggest customer. Huge amounts shipped to Japan from Michigan for my company. The tsunami was a serious hit to our bottom line. Many people did not mind the refocusing on other partners as Japanese businessmen treat anyone of any ranking here like third world peons. Much gnashing of teeth over the disrespect.
My opinion of my little part of the world is that manufacturing seems to be a huge mishmash of middlemen doing slight work to products and moving them on to the next. It happens within countries, between countries, and between continents. There is no real way of telling where something came from with so many feedback loops and nondisclosure agreements. Though I should not complain. Knowing the system is what makes me money.
The deepest trading chain I could find beginning-to-end looks like this:
Spain (natural resources)
Italy (refinement)
Indiana (forming)
Michigan(more forming)
Michigan (stamping)
Germany (additive processing)
West Virginia (testing)
Michigan (finishing processes)
Ohio (assembly priming and packaging)
Japan (put in a vehicle)
All for a little fuel system fastener that you can get OEM for a fistfull of dollars.
Don't get me wrong -- I wasn't supporting the argument of the guy with the confusing grammar; I was merely interpreting it. I tend to be middle-of-the-road on most issues, and I am on this one too, because reality is often quite a bit more complex than such black-and-white arguments make them out to be.
Quite honestly, the idea of "buy local" in a global economy doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. What's more "American" -- a car built by a Japanese company (Honda, Toyota, Nissan) but built in an American plant, or an "American" car that's built in Mexico? I won't even discuss how Chrysler is actually Daimler (German) - Chrysler (American). Or consider Eric Buell Racing's Buell 1100RS motorcycle? That's an American company, but it uses a Rotax engine (Austrian). How many American cars have Bosch components (German) or ECU's and sensors made in Taiwan? The boundaries get pretty grey, and it becomes difficult, if not downright impossible, to determine what is "American" and what is "imported" even if you want to.
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
Check out this article which debunks some myths.
Misconception: Most of what Americans spend their money on is made in China.
Fact: Just 2.7% of personal consumption expenditures go to Chinese-made goods and services. 88.5% of U.S. consumer spending is on American-made goods and services
IF it looked like we were going down, you bet your ass we will launch nukes at you.
Yeah, about that foreign policy of "looking and acting like a crazy guy wearing an explosive vest and a loud ticking detonator". You guys might want to get that looked at sometime. It doesn't always endear you even to your friends.
Admittedly the USA is still - barely - the nicest of the paranoid meth-crazed explosive-vest-wearing gang-bangers on the global block... except for the occasional drunken bouts of violent rage... but that's not exactly a career path you really want to aspire to, y'know? Yes, you're still better than North Korea. But you have a bigger gun, and you're still swigging from the hip flask.
You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC