Trolling Al Qaeda... For Peace?

The Mister Purple writes "There is a small initiative underway to combat Islamic militant recruiting on the Internet... by trolling them. Quoting the article: 'The program, called Viral Peace, seeks to occupy the virtual space that extremists fill, one thread or Twitter exchange at a time. Shahed Amanullah, a senior technology adviser to the State Department and Viral Peace's creator, tells Danger Room he wants to use "logic, humor, satire, [and] religious arguments, not just to confront [extremists], but to undermine and demoralize them." Think of it as strategic trolling, in pursuit of geopolitical pwnage.' So, does this mean that I'm promoting peace when I post YouTube comments?"

Comments

Right

[Anonymous Coward]

Because pissing people off is an effective way to get them to leave you alone.

Re:Right

[Anonymous Coward]

Confusion is a great tactic. Make them so mad they can't think straight, and you reduce their total effectiveness.

See also political arguments, religious arguments, battle of the sexes, etc etc.

Re:Right

[Anonymous Coward]

Because pissing people off is an effective way to get them to leave you alone.

It's not designed to work on the nuts, it's designed to work on the ones the nuts are trying to recruit.

Making the nuts look like idiots hurts their recruiting.

Re:Right

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Well, I've been doing precisely this for years, actually. In fact, just using your brain properly pisses these people off incredibly efficiently.

Satire would probably just rile them up more.

Been there, done that. This stuff is pretty much work in progress.

Re:Right

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

But?!?!?

If you disable Al Qaeda, how will you get them to overthrow Assad in Syria for Hillary?

You must understand one thing. "Al Qaeda" never stopped being a board piece used by "Western" powers, when they were Reagan's Moral equivalent of our founding fathers."

If you dispute this, it's because YOU have already been trolled into disinformed confusion...

Re:Right

[amicusNYCL]

It's not designed to work on the nuts

NUT ON! APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE NUTS!

Re:Right

[DigiShaman]

It's like Warcraft. If you keep clicking on the sheep, they will eventually explode in frustration. So keep trolling them. If we're lucky, they will explode in their own home just behind the keyboard.

Re:Right

[russotto]

It's not designed to work on the nuts, it's designed to work on the ones the nuts are trying to recruit.

Right... the nuts are working on stirring up the mark's religious fervor, and inserting "Penis" in the middle of the conversation sort of ruins the mood.

Re:Right

[Anonymous Coward]

"inserting penis" never seems to ruin the mood for me ;-)

Re:Right

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Because pissing people off is an effective way to get them to leave you alone.

A visit from 4chan is unlikely to do much about the 'currently at a training camp in hellholistan learning to use RPGs' crowd; but suitably competent trolling can reduce an online community to little more than flame wars and tumbleweeds fairly quickly.

It might annoy the wannabes enough that they give up and just go look at porn or something instead. People aren't known for their dedication or attention spans on the internet.

Re:Right

[hoggoth]

Are you still touching me?

Re:Right

[Anonymous Coward]

If you dispute this, it's because YOU have already been trolled into disinformed confusion...

Regardless of what their position is, anyone who says this is more confused and misinformed than the people he's accusing of the same.

Re:Right

[vivian]

Actually I think if they just got laid once in a while it'd reduce their effectiveness. Unfortunately for them their belief system makes them think the only way it's going to happen is to get married or get martyred.
Given their apparently poor respect of women, the former isn't likely without some kind of arranged marriage.

Re:Right

[Anonymous Coward]

It worked when Superman defeated the KKK. They gave out the secret codes etc and made them look so childish that members became ashamed to associate, and to this day many people think of the KKK as childish, uneducated, illiterate fools.

Re:Right

[causality]

which is essentially sows distrust of everything that comes from TV, Radio and the Internet.

That would be an improvement. Why, somthing like widespread critical thinking might emerge! The world is full of people who benefit by being dishonest.

in other words, you create in the other person the sentiment that IT'S ALL BULLSHIT.

All? No. Just most of it. Usually this is in the "bought and paid for" sense of advertisements. Half-truths are always a popular one as well, because on the surface they seem legitimate unless you scrutinize how they're being used. It tends to fool people who are otherwise smart except that they're naive.

then they're drawn to someone who strikes down that FUD, in person, face to face.

What would lead them to believe this person is any more truthful than what they read? At some point they'd have to learn to test the truth of information they are told to believe. Otherwise we're back again to the naive people, the ones who (no matter how high their IQs) get suckered by charm and charisma. Or they might get suckered by thinking those who look you in the eye are automatically more truthful than someone who writes a post online, even though meeting a single liar is enough to falsify that notion.

then you end up with exactly what you seeked to defuse in the first place

No the real problem here is that both government and corporations find it highly desirable to have malleable, docile populace who don't question too much or think too critically. Politicians think that's just great and so do advertisers. They'd really rather not rock that boat. That's why they want to counter one kind of propaganda with another kind of propaganda instead of teaching people how to recognize propaganda and identify ulterior agendas.

Besides, you frame this in terms of "distrust". I went along with that in order to respond to you more easily, but I don't view it that way at all. It's not about trust or distrust or mistrust. It's about skepticism. Healthy skepticism is a good thing. If you aren't willing to go wherever the evidence and reason leads, then we're moving away from skepticism and towards mistrust. That's the difference.

Re:Right

[Nyder]

It's not designed to work on the nuts, it's designed to work on the ones the nuts are trying to recruit.

Right... the nuts are working on stirring up the mark's religious fervor, and inserting "Penis" in the middle of the conversation sort of ruins the mood.

or vagina

Re:Right

[SoftwareArtist]

You know the religious fanatics who stand in the middle of college campuses shouting at everyone passing by that the end of the world is coming, and they're all going to Hell, and generally making fools of themselves? And you know how people laugh at them, or shout back at them, or make jokes about them to the crowd, or point out loudly what absurd fools they are?

That's exactly what they want to happen.

You see, they aren't targeting those people who stand around and laugh at them. But somewhere in the crowd is someone who feels sorry for them. Someone who knows perfectly well they're a religious fanatic, but that still doesn't give people the right to laugh at them. And so afterward that person will go up and talk to the religious fanatic, just to be polite, just to say, "I wasn't one of the people laughing at you, and I don't approve of them doing it."

And that is who they're really targeting. That person who is trying to be polite, and is off their guard, and who suddenly finds the religious fanatic is actually a friendly person who can talk intelligently and doesn't sound like a fanatic at all anymore. By laughing at the fanatic, you helped them to lure in the person they were really after, and gave them a chance to give the real recruiting pitch.

Trolling fanatics may be fun, but it can easily have the opposite effect from what you intend.

Re:Right

[kentrel]

You know that trolling doesn't mean ridiculing someone?

Trolling is a fine art, and often it means gaining someone's trust, and provoking an emotional reaction you want, but not necessarily drawing attention to yourself as the troll.

Re:Right

[lennier]

Yeah, I think that is it. There are too many wars due to lack of humiliation.

Sadly if one were to rewatch most American movies aimed at teenagers since the 1980s, I think you'll find the predominant cultural moral message has been pretty much exactly that.

Act 1: A young wimpy kid/cop/spy/soldiert is pushed around by bullies/criminals/Soviets/terrorists.
Act 2: The bullies continue to push the wimp who is tragically plagued by common sense/compassion/robots. This nearly loses the lunch money/case/mission/Vietnam.
Act 3: Pushed to the wall, the young wimp faces his/her deep inner fears of his/her own glorious American manifest destiny. Hoo-rah!
Act 4: The former wimp utterly humiliates the enemy in the most embarrassing way possible with a devastating rock solo. This ends all wars everywhere and there is no such thing as blowback, at least until the sequel.

I'm pretty sure that if this formula worked for Marty McFly and Rambo, it will work for the United States diplomatic corps.

Re:Right

[flyneye]

There are no "tactics" that will work with any of the invincibly ignorant.
Take for instance, extreme Westboro Baptists, who have been reasoned with, taunted, stalked, given a voice in the press, ridiculed on t.v., forced to protest behind barriers of "Patriot Guard" bikers, and generally opposed in both good and bad ways, still they carry on....Nothing works that doesn't make you a lower scumbag than them.

Re:Right

[Concerned Onlooker]

You have given yourself away as a member of the Taliban.

So, would you like to see my photo collection of burning Qurans?

Re:Right

[hairyfeet]

The problem is religious extremists really need deprogramming not trolling. We are talking about people that will strap a bomb to their chest and die with a smile on their face because of what some goat herder wrote on a piece of sheep's ass a thousand years ago. Now just think about that for a minute, a guy that has been dead for over a thousand years tells you that if you die for the sky bully you'll be pimped out in paradise....and you listen.

I'm sorry but until we can get people to accept those stories for what they were, stories, no different than Homer or Plato, then its seriously doubtful that anything you troll is gonna have any long term effect. we are talking about a religion that tells you how many times to shake your dick after you piss and how to fuck your wife you know, people that desire THAT level of external control in their lives have serious mental problems and need help.

I personally think its because religion takes responsibility completely out of your life, it doesn't matter what happens its "God's will" and you have no reason to think or claim responsibility, just follow this little rule book and don't think and all is well. It completely takes any thought or responsibility out of the person's hands and sadly there are many of our fellow man that would like to spend their entire lives not having to think, just blindly follow.

Re:Right

[AmiMoJo]

And that is who they're really targeting. That person who is trying to be polite, and is off their guard, and who suddenly finds the religious fanatic is actually a friendly person who can talk intelligently and doesn't sound like a fanatic at all anymore. By laughing at the fanatic, you helped them to lure in the person they were really after, and gave them a chance to give the real recruiting pitch.

That's how it works on TV but not in real life. The basic tactic is to get the victim into a situation where they can be bombarded with religious bullshit for years on end and surrounded by others who seem to believe it totally. It isn't unique to Islam either, most monotheistic religions prefer to get people in young and hammer them for years so they become true and unshakable believers. It isn't even unique to religion, extremist groups of all kinds do it.

There is no logic, no rational argument, just relentless indoctrination.

Re:Right

[Crosshair84]

Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.

These people are not blowing themselves up BECAUSE of their religion, that does play some part into it yes, but that is not the main driving reason. I paid attention in history class, I don't remember Muslims sending fire ships into New York Harbor in the 1880's. I don't remember suicide car bombings in the 1930's. I remember some piracy off their shores and that was about it. If religion was the DRIVING force we would have seen these past events, but we don't.

The reason they attack us today is because for the last 50 years we have been meddling in their internal affairs. We have installed/propped up dictators who have brutalized and oppressed their people for decades. They know that until the US has been driven from the region they will not have self rule. The purpose of 9/11 was to get the US more deeply involved and more easily attacked. They have told us their goals repeatedly, bankrupt the US Soviet Union style to force it to leave the region forever.

Why the suicide attacks? Because the US supported/influenced tyrants have made life so miserable that these people have nothing to lose. If they lined up as a regular army they know they would get slaughtered, so why not just go for a suicide attack and do far more damage. Either method ends in death. Self rule is worth dying for, so they make the very rational choice to sacrifice themselves for the future of their people to have the ability to rule themselves. If the roles were reversed you'd see Americans lining up around the corner to strap on the bomb belts for the same reasons and you and I would be cheering them on for their bravery.

Re:Right

[Firemouth]

Me not that kind of orc!

Finally!

[54mc]

My skills will be put to use!

Re:Finally!

[Anonymous Coward]

The first time "Troll" and "Insightful" are valid on-topic moderations!

Re:Finally!

[Centurix]

Troll + Insightful = Funny

That's how the palette of Slashdot mod points work.

Re:Finally!

[DigiShaman]

Troll + Informative = Flamebate? Truth hurts.

Religious Cartoons

[bugs2squash]

They always go down well

be very careful

[busyqth]

Be very careful when participating in this type of activity, because if you really annoy Al Qaida terrorists, they try to get revenge in some way.
For example, they might DDoS your server, or dox you, of any number of other similarly terrifying acts.

Waste of Time

[Anonymous Coward]

it never worked on [Republicans, Democrats] (delete as per preference) so why should it work on fundies?

Let me help...

[bhlowe]

This is a good war porn action.. Its begging for some peace through trolling comments.

Re:Slashdot's reallyghone down hill....

[Antipater]

That's nothing compared to the experience I had with MyCleanPC.

Re:Slashfuck bitches are too limp to do this

[VIPERsssss]

Religion of Peace

Re:While I'm all for trolling Muslims

[Ziekheid]

Not sure if troll or actually serious. Well played.

how can I help?

[Charliemopps]

I'm all for this. But I don't speak Hebrew... that's what they speak right? Anyway, any English speaking Mohammedans that have a forum?

Logic? Religion?

[lannocc]

Logic AND religious arguments? So which side are supposed to be the nut-jobs here?

you don't want them leaving you alone

[circletimessquare]

you want them furiously attacking you, with words. you, an anonymous troll on the internet

rather than bombing people in the real world

keep them occupied and wasting their time on the Internet by pointing the object of their rage at trollish subjects and ideas rather than real people and places

Re:The Muzzies are coming!

[siddesu]

Apparently, it was a one-time device and not intended for repeated use.

Re:Slashdot's reallyghone down hill....

[Huge_UID]

Was that comment your application to Viral Peace? If so, I'd hire you.

Re:The Muzzies are coming!

[Farmer Tim]

Extremists: taking planned obsolescence one step too far.

Not trolling, counter-trolling

[erice]

I think people reading too much into the description of the effort as "trolling".

Trolling on Usenet and sites like Slashdot is about provoking people who are otherwise engaged in reasoned, rational, discussions into flaming.

The Al Qaeda elements are presumably using weakly supported but not obviously wrong statements written to appeal to the emotions of would-be recruits and convince them that the irrational is reasonable. In other words, these elements are themselves trolling.

The counter would be to either reveal the trolls as nut jobs or provoke them to revealing that themselves. Posting fictitious but not obviously wrong arguments yourself is probably not the way to go about this.

Re:Not trolling, counter-trolling

[Black Parrot]

Trolling on Usenet and sites like Slashdot is about provoking people who are otherwise engaged in reasoned, rational, discussions into flaming.

Actually it's about pushing people's buttons, and it works best on people who take themselves waaay too seriously.

You troll people who are inclined to jerk their knees, not those who are inclined toward reasoned, rational discussions.

Re:Mujahadeen protect Al Quaeda

[stdarg]

I don't think you know much about the Koran.