Slashdot Mirror
Medieval "Lingerie" From 15th Century Castle Could Rewrite Fashion History
fangmcgee writes "Archaeologists have unearthed several 500-year-old bras that some experts say could rewrite fashion history. While they'll hardly send pulses racing by today's standards, the lace-and-linen underpinnings predate the invention of the modern brassiere by hundreds of years. Found hidden under the floorboards of Lengberg Castle in Austria's East Tyrol, along with some 2,700 textile fragments and one completely preserved pair of (presumably male) linen underpants, the four intact bras and two fragmented specimens are thought to date to the 15th century, a hypothesis scientists later confirmed through carbon-dating."
I'm rather more interested in WHY all this was hidden under floorboards in the first place. "2700 textile fragments"? Must've been a lot of space under there, enough for a nice big hoard of gold bullion. Instead we find... clothes?
I know a chick named Donna Matrix who goes for the whole Medieval Lingerie thing.
Tends more toward leather and chainmail than lace. Probably due to the crude manufacturing technology of the times.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
These aren't bras. They are medieval "sexist comments" left in the Da Vinci code.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
the patterns of the seams were shared by numerous ancient civilizations, separated by centuries, that had no contact with each other. and yet, they all share the same markings.
What looks at first glance like a descending backstrap is, in fact, the edge of a missing descending section - look at the lace holes, and the lay of the fabric.
The entire lower front of what I assume to be some kind of "control garment" (like those combined bra/corset things you sometimes see in catalogues) is missing. Bodice, or corset, with built-in cups, yes. Brassiere, in the modern sense, no.
I'm betting on costumes for a game of "The Naughty Pirate rips the Farmer's Daughter's Bodice".
...that even in the 15th century, you still had to ensure you protected your washing line from underwear fetishists.....
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Why do women wear bras anyways? They don't need them. :P
I've always assumed it was to prevent them from slapping against their foreheads cartoonishly when running.
The Wolfpack Project: BitCoin + Crowdfunding = Political Accountability
comfort maybe? The larger the breasts, the heavier they are and the more support is needed.
Your comment reveals your still a youth as more senior slashdotters are well aware of the long term effects of gravity on the female breast, they are not so perky any more.
but anyway bra's make a woman look more attractive , especially the ones where you get the opportunity to remove the bra.
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
In fact, I'd go further. certainly valuable clothes at the time. And yet another reminder that "trickle down" works so far as that, as the economy develops, the privileges of the rich extend to wider society. If this is "news for nerds" it is a reminder that what probably took a skilled seamstress a week in the 15th century is almost disposably cheap in the 21st, due to factory automation.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
I suspect you won't actually care for an answer, but it's for both practical and aesthetic reasons.
My breasts would not be considered "big" by most people's standards, but they still move enough to make running without a bra very uncomfortable. Being braless is a hindrance to free, impulsive movement for me.
If that weren't reason enough, my natural breast shape is not considered fashionable in this decade (or since sometimes in the 50s, I reckon). Also, since almost no one has their daily streetclothes personally tailored to them these days, a bra is often necessary to make one's silhouette fit the cut of modern off-the-rack clothes.
Why am I being a pedant? It narks me, very slightly, that the GPP post is off-topic and gets modded +5, while on-topic posts are ignored. Come on guys, I know this is Slashdot, but have you really never seen a bra before?
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
You know the song "Gaudeamus igitur"? The one they used to sing in some US colleges? It starts "Jam nox stellata volumina pandet, nunc, nunc bibendum et amandum est" - "already night unfolds her starry veil, now is the time to drink and make love". If that isn't enough, read Rabelais, including his interesting proposals for how to build a new wall round Paris. Rabelais was a 16th century medical doctor who wrote humorous books to amuse his patients (and piss off the Pope). At one point he lists the best sound in the world as being bollocks slapping against a woman's bottom. With all the worries nowadays about the spread of pornography, we tend to forget that the 19th century and the rise of fundamentalist Protestantism was actually a very aberrant period of human history.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Since when are nerds *not* interested in the fates of stranded time travelers from the future?
Ezekiel 23:20
Many cultures do put the most absurd expectations on women. The desire of (mostly old men and women) to control female behaviour is quite uniform and quite depressing.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
The first article linked to by the article says 500 years old, though whether the discrepancy in the summary is down to scrupulous fact-checking by the editor or a serendipitous cock-up is anyone's guess.
News for serfs. Stuff in tatters.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
0xB16B00B5
Maybe they found one of the first versions of a bra with a modern design, but already some Roman mosaics showed women wearing two-piece clothing, which isn't so different from a modern day bikini.
karma police: arrest this man, he talks in maths; he buzzes like a fridge, he's like a detuned radio. [radiohead]
So true. I recall my buddies and I coming back from the beach a few years back when a very well endowed young lady wanted to cross at the crossing walk as the light timer was drawing below 10 seconds. Thus, she started to run. Hilarity ensued. She actually stopped running and also started to laugh.
Ah...I do miss south California.
I don't care about grammar points at 8 am on a friday morning, communication is the point of language not syntax errors. the interpreter is flexible enough to cope :P
However I am curious as how you got such a relatively low user id, did you sign up to slashdot when you were 10?
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
A nation of braless women sounds nice, but the reality is that without the brassiere, women's boobs would sag and the nipples would point at the ground by the age of 21. Ever seen those National Geographic photos of African tribesladies wearing their topless tribal costumes? Yeah, like that. The bra is a wonderful invention - if you like perky boobies.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
>I guess that's why african women who never wear bras have their breasts almost touching their vaginas.
Actually that's pretty much a myth. The saggy-boobs on African woman is actually caused by malnutrition. There's no observable sagging in healthy women.
I actually LIVE in Africa, I see African tits every day of my life.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
even for men it makes sense and is more comfortable to have something to keep the dangly bits in check when you are for example running
I don't know about you, but I just wrap mine round my head as a sweatband.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
For one, to help keep their perkies perky as they get older. Two, cold airconditioning and cold weather in public places.
First, it's archaeology. That's science. Science news is news for nerds. Second, they found something 500 years old that they thought had been invented in the 20th century. That's engineering, also news for nerds. Plus there's the patent troll aspect, and you know as well as me that most folks here are interested in patent abuses. I'd say something that had been invented by a 14th century man should be pretty obvious to a 20th century man.
Free Martian Whores!
This is not actually true - the shape of one's breasts is far more closely related to genetics, nutrition, and number of children nursed. Especially nutrition - most of the effects of nursing are due to borderline nutritional quality during lactation. If all of your protein is going to making milk instead of maintaining your mammary ligaments your breasts will sag.
So you have birth control pills and improved farming practices to thank for perky breasts.
Uh, "if it looks roughly mouse-shaped according to my infra-red sensitive pit, eat it"? --Chris Burke 09-08-10
Let's face it, when it comes to history, man judges it based on where we are at. We think people are stupid because they lived in the past and they didn't have modern plumbing or an iPad, or anything like that. bah.
Why wouldn't someone think of making a bra 500 years ago? 1000 years ago? Fuck, man has been around for millions of years, and been making their own clothes for that long. How hard is it to come up with a bra design? Not fucking very. Underwire, ya, I can see that being a modern invention, but the bra? Nope.
People were just as smart as we are now (based on most the world, that isn't saying much, i'm sure), and they solved the same fucking problems we did. If we could travel back in time, we'd be surprised by all the stuff we think are "modern" inventions aren't.
Truth is, man is very conceited and thinks he's all that, when in fact, we've been all that for 1000's of years. We aren't doing anything new.
Be seeing you...
Looking at those pictures, I'm reminded of the undergarments in the Elder Scrolls games. For those who aren't familiar, they're a series of video games in a fairly generic fantasy setting (the gameplay is fantastic and unique, they're great games, don't get me wrong, but the setting could be mistaken for many other Tolkien knock-offs).
Anyways, one of the things you commonly do is loot the bodies of bandits and whatnot that you kill. And if you take their clothes, they're left laying there in their underwear (not removable for ESRB reasons). In the case of females, it looks almost exactly like the ones in the article. I had always thought it a bit anachronistic for the time period the games were portraying - obviously modern designs made using old materials don't fit "Generic Medieval Fantasy Europe" - but it turns out it may not be.
Which doesn't explain how the game developers knew, of course, but they seem to have been right by accident.