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Microsoft: Surface Tablet May Alienate OEM Partners

HangingChad sends this excerpt from PCMag: "Microsoft this week admitted that its upcoming Surface tablet might hurt its relationships with PC maker partners. As first noted by the New York Times, Redmond said in a Thursday filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission that 'our Surface devices will compete with products made by our OEM partners, which may affect their commitment to our platform.'" The filing also made note of the difficulties in building up another app marketplace: "In order to compete, we must successfully enlist developers to write applications for our marketplace and ensure that these applications have high quality, customer appeal and value. Efforts to compete with these application marketplaces may increase our cost of revenue and lower our operating margins."

33 of 164 comments (clear)

  1. They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by RudyHartmann · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not only the Surface, but the Xbox can be a full blown PC with an interface just like Win8. What about the Microsoft Store? Sounds like the Apple store doesn't it? Just wait till Microsoft comes out with their own phone. This is another reason OEM's and deveopers are giving Linux another serious look. There is no viable alternative for them.

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    1. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by jhoegl · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Your logic is pretty flawed on the matter.
      What is at issue is the hardware, not the OS.
      Microsoft wants to develop their own hardware, that is fine. But who controls the UEFI restrictions? What club do hardware and OEM manufacturers have to belong to now to conform?
      With Windows 8's added requirement to conform to this standard, hardware will have to go through testing with MS, which historically has not been that great.
      Well now, MS holds the reigns on competitor hardware as well as its own. So... where does that lead the industry?
      They can either conform and deal with what is dealt, or find alternatives.
      We already see that Apples Developers are leaving due to this "controlled" approach, so what will happen to hardware?
      Personally, i think the next 10 years of computing will be very interesting or very depressing.

    2. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by masternerdguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Linux has already won. It has won the server and the mobile market.

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    3. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by jhoegl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Like when you ask "what version of windows are you using?".
      I mean, that answer is brilliant!

    4. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Informative

      Consumers can run Linux and not even be aware of it.

      It's step onto this side of the 90s timewarp you appear to be posting from.

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    5. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What a pathetic little Microsoft shill you are.

      OEMs have done a great job of making appealing hardware for Windows. That's the only reason Windows even exists today. Otherwise MS-DOS would just be some obscure thing from the 80's that you never heard about.

      Tablets are a sticky wicket because consumer price points require using a microprocessor architecture that Windows doesn't support. Even if you do port Windows to ARM, you will have nothing to run on it.

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    6. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by sexconker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Linux has already won. It has won the server and the mobile market.

      I agree with you in a way. But a full blown win will be when you can ask any guy on the street what Linux is and get an answer..

      You can't ask any guy on the street what electricity is and get an answer.

    7. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wrong, you will get an "answer".

    8. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by masternerdguy · · Score: 2

      OEMs have the unfortunate habit of bundling bloatware and crapware with their PCs. I for one think that M$ tightening the reigns a bit will actually force OEMs to change their ways.

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    9. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by RudyHartmann · · Score: 4, Informative

      I just read this article on Forbes. It looks like they've come to the same conclusion I have.

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/06/21/microsoft-first-branded-tablets-next-their-own-cell-phone/

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    10. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by __aaqvdr516 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hooray for Pyrrhic victories!

      I don't think many people realize that Android is Linux. Not one of the people I work with could tell you what version they have on their phones. The only thing they can tell you is which applications they can or can't get compared to the iPhone. Of the people that have the iPhone that I work with, one of them is a fanboi and the others can barely operate their own computers.

      If MS can get their store in order and have decent hardware, they'll do just fine. You'll still have your Linux, everyone else will still be clueless, no matter what platform their phone runs.

    11. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by 0123456 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Until they buy Office and say "Why the fuck won't this just work?"

      How many consumers buy Office? And why would they when LibreOffice comes with their Linux install?

    12. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by 0123456 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If OEMs can't bundle crapware to offset the price of Windows, either Windows systems cost more or Microsoft will have to cut the cost of Windows to the OEMs.

    13. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by aztektum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Just wait till Microsoft comes out with their own phone.

      They pretty much are. They've effectively turned Nokia into their "Windows Phone division".

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    14. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by oakgrove · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's called managing expectations. How well does Office run on the iPad?

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    15. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by datavirtue · · Score: 4, Funny

      Man, I ask people what browser they are using and I get panicked, confused looks.

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    16. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by Mabhatter · · Score: 2

      If Google would button up Chrome or throw behind Red Hat or Ubuntu brands they might gain something. Personally, Google should put together an Android environment that runs on a regular Linux in a sandbox. That way phone and tablet devs could port to that environment and media like Amazon could slip their media stuff (books, video, music, etc) in too. it would allow the normal distros to keep all the core Linux Desktop Apps in their repos too.

      Of course it's everything the OSS gurus freak and dread, but without the ability to PARTICIPATE in online media commerce, Linux will always be "behind scenes". Win 8 and Mountain Lion are leaving a lot of good software and machines in the dust. The "Android " brand might be enough to get individual people to convert their XP to Linux... Linking with people's phones is a pretty good carrot.

    17. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by bhcompy · · Score: 2

      Tell that to my grandma

    18. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by erp_consultant · · Score: 2

      But they can't be Apple. If Microsoft's plan is to simply copy everything Apple does it will fail. Microsoft has never really been much of an innovator. Now before everyone jumps all over me, Apple has copied a fair amount of stuff as well. The difference is that Apple knows how to design hardware and, more importantly, they know how to market it. MS is so used to just selling stuff to corporate clients they forgot how to sell things to consumers. Remember those disastrous Seinfeld ads? Compare that to the "I'm a PC and I'm a Mac" ads. Brilliant and very successful as well. What's sad about it is that MS actually has some pretty good stuff. Windows Phone is good, XBox is good, the Zune was really good, the Slate looks promising. But when it comes time to actually sell anything to consumers MS falls flat on it's face. Android is cool, Apple is hip, Microsoft is stodgy and yesterday's news. MS will still be able to sell things to corporations for a long, long time but their consumer strategy is doomed. Balmer has to go.

    19. Re:They're Concluding Microsoft Wants to Be Apple by Bert64 · · Score: 2

      There have been windows tablets for many years...

      They are expensive, bulky, and generally slow compared to full size laptops, and the speed is directly comparable because they run the same software.

      The interface of windows is simply not suited to use on a tablet... They are trying to address this with metro, albeit in a stupid way... Touchscreens and mouse/keyboard are totally different, and therefore should have different interfaces. Forcing a touchscreen interface on keyboard/mouse users is just as bad as forcing the regular windows interfaces on touchscreen users.

      Same thing with apps, sure an x86 tablet can run existing windows apps, but interacting with them is painful.

      The fact is that despite having been available for years, windows tablets have not taken off. The iPad on the other hand sold massively pretty much as soon as it became available.

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  2. Really? by geoffrobinson · · Score: 4, Informative

    You have to mention everything that could be a potential threat to your business in SEC filings. Not particularly interesting since this is "may do this, may do that."

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  3. OEMs key to Microsoft success story by aNonnyMouseCowered · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Failed? OEMs were the key to Microsoft's success! Much more than developers, developers, developers. That's why Microsoft was a bigger company than Apple for most of its history. For OEMs Microsoft was a benevolent dictator. Now Microsoft is a desperate despot willing to sacrifice its allies just to maintain its position as an influential tech company.

    1. Re:OEMs key to Microsoft success story by Desler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes. Have you not seen the long sting of crappy tablets coming from the OEMs the past decade?

  4. Bears by Lord_of_the_nerf · · Score: 4, Funny

    As first noted by the NYT, they shit in the woods.

  5. doing what MS does best by pbjones · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It'll be second rate and fail. It's not because MS is bad at this sort of thing, it's because it can't concentrate of the user, and UI consistency, it doesn't need to be distracted by hardware design. There are still stupid differences in the way the parts of the Office suit work, and the UI should work the same way. An MS made tablet will be second rate because it isn't new, it isn't wanted. Just supply the software and let people who know how to build hardware do their job, MS has been doing it this way from the beginning, why change now?

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  6. Market Caps by RudyHartmann · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Microsoft's Market Cap
    http://ycharts.com/companies/MSFT/market_cap

    Apple's Market Cap
    http://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/market_cap

    At one time Microsoft could have eaten Apple's lunch. They even bailed them out with a loan. Now look how things have changed. Microsft can clearly see where Apple has been a success and they think they can emulate it. A little envy?

    If the DOJ now gives Apple a pass on this business model, why wouldn't they do the same for Microsoft?

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  7. Re:I dont want an "App" store at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    dude, you're stupid. the appstore model is actually a copy of debian's "apt-get". apt-get is basically a "free appstore". you know the convenience of "apt-get install xyzapp" and it works automagically? well that's the convenience the appstore brings. also since the appstore takes care of your bandwidth costs and hosts promotional content and puts you in a place where costumers can actually find you i don't think 30% is very expensive at all. that's the problem with geeks, they have no clue about how to run a business. now get back to work before you boss sees you browsing slashdot again and chews you out, peon.

  8. Re:Of course it will... by cpu6502 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In the entire history of IBM PC clones, none have innovated. They usually copied the innovations from the Atari and Commodore machines..... and then the PC makers caught-up 5-10 years later to turn a boring business machine into one with sound/graphic cards. Or into integrated one-piece units like the iMac. THIS model has worked for them since the mid-80s so it's doubtful they'll suddenly change. It's cheaper to just copy.

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  9. Re:Microsoft, "So ... ?" by 0123456 · · Score: 2

    It's not like the OEMs have anywhere else to go, with any significant product sales that compare to Windows based sales.

    True. Windows tablet sales are massively outpacing Android sales.

  10. Re:Of course it will... by oakgrove · · Score: 2

    In what way have the OEMs "failed"? There was no Windows for ARM so they couldn't go toe to toe with the iPad and Windows 7 is unsuitable for a touch screen tablet. If anything Microsoft failed the OEMs.

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  11. Re:I dont want an "App" store at all by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 2

    appstore takes care of your bandwidth costs and hosts promotional content and puts you in a place where costumers can actually find you

    And deals with payment processing and identification and fraud. Those are an extraordinary burden on the small developer. A 30% fixed and predictable cost is a big win.

  12. Ehm, not really by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 2

    The vast majority of the phones that Nokia is actually selling isn't based on Windows Phone. The windows phones aren't selling, since they are already announced to be a dead platform before the end of the year. Nobody wants to buy a phone that doesn't get updates, there are no users for the phone so nobody develops apps for it, so it's not the Windows Phone Devision but the Windows Phone house of morning.

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  13. Re:nigerfaget grammer nazis will be trolled by thi by redback · · Score: 2

    Their.

    They're is they are

    There is a place.