Slashdot Mirror
Political Science Prof Asks: Is Algebra Necessary?
Capt.Albatross writes "Andrew Hacker, a professor of Political Science at the City University of New York and author of Higher Education? How Colleges Are Wasting Our Money and Failing Our Kids — and What We Can Do About It, attempts to answer this question in the negative in today's New York Times Sunday Review. His primary claim is that mathematics requirements are prematurely and unreasonably limiting the level of education available to otherwise capable students ."
substitute in his thesis,
Algebra is an onerous stumbling block for all kinds of students: disadvantaged and affluent, black and white.
and substitute to:
History is an onerous stumbling block for all kinds of students: disadvantaged and affluent, black and white.
and you have a perfect argument for me and the school system not requiring History.
Even better,
$yourWorstSubject is an onerous stumbling block for all kinds of students: disadvantaged and affluent, black and white.
and we've eliminated the need for any required subjects.
"I am not good at", or "I don't want to" are not good arguments for not requiring learnin'.
(-e**(i*pi) st post)
NO.
It's the unintuitive ways in which it's taught (which in turn causes the societal alienation of the subject) that is the problem, not the fact that it's a requirement.
Mathematics is nothing less than the upmost tool of rationality. Lose it, and all progress decays.
[SHOW SOME LENIENCY TOWARDS
I'm pretty sure if I wrote that paper, the resulting Slashdot headline would be "Engineer Asks: Is Political Science Necessary?"
The point is not learning how to do complex calculation, the point is by learning these mathematical subjects you develop certain skills in logic, problem solving , and in critical thinking. It goes beyond mathematics and to how to be a rational thinker ( and yes I am exaggerating a bit ).
If you want to understand the world, you need math. If your education doesn't include that, what sort of education is it?
... is High School necessary?
The summary and headline seem to imply that the professor is questioning whether algebra/mathematics is necessary for anyone, but really he's asking if it's necessary for everyone. I have a degree in physics and computer engineering and I personally benefit tremendously from mathematics. But pretty much everyone I know (outside of my comp sci/phsyics friends) is terrible at math, and never use anything except simple calculations in their daily lives, and they get by just fine in their professions. Yes, they do a lot of math without being very aware of it, but they don't need to know the extent of the theory, and they aren't what I would consider especially proficient, which is what highschool at least aims to make you.
The professor in the article is asking something completely different and reasonable: since everyone is different, and everyone has a set of proficiencies and aptitudes, why do we try to teach everything a set of knowledge someone somewhere has somehow determined to be paramount? What if everyone's talent was fostered at a young age instead of forcing them to neglect their proficiencies and learn skills which perhaps they will never use? Would we end up with a society where everyone was an expert at something, rather than a society where everyone has a little knowledge everywhere but no real spectacular skill?
I don't know the answer to any of these questions, but really, I think they're worth considering. I for one was fostered at a young age because my parents identified that I was good at science and math, and I benefited tremendously. I could only imagine if that kind of fostering was afforded to every child, we might be better off.
Most students do not really understand mathematics anyway, they simply memorize equations and techniques. Why should students who can't manage that be barred from the higher levels in other courses?
"Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not make messes in the house."
If you've been in any large business you realize that it operates primarily on Excel spreadsheets being repeatedly e-mailed back and forth. While many of the folks creating these spreadsheets don't even realize it, each of the cells are little algebraic equations. People often ask "what from math class do you use every day", well algebra is an easy one, people write business formulas in Excel.
Longer answer:
The fact that anyone felt the need to ask this question says to me that we're doing education wrong in the USA. Very wrong. Fundamentally wrong. Yes, algebra is necessary, possibly more necessary than any other branch of math, because there are so many other fundamentally useful concepts wrapped up in it -- formal logic, proof, and a whole bunch of other basic building blocks of epistemology, not just mathematics -- that IMHO it's crucial to teaching students to think and reason answers and not just churn them out by rote memorization the way they do with arithmetic .. the way we're currently teaching it.
But why are we approaching the subject as though it's something "hard" that we have to "work" to learn and then question whether the effort is necessary? The only reason we have that view of it is that by the time our kids hit algebra, they've had all the curiosity and fascination for new knowledge hammered out of them, by normalizing their curriculum to death assembly-line style. Arithmetic by addition and multiplication tables and memorization is boring, mind-numbingly so, and any kid who gets through that gauntlet and is still interested in algebra didn't learn his/her math in the classroom, they learned it by exploring and playing around with it and getting a feel for number theory and how arithmetic operators work .. you know, real math, the kind that gets the imagination flowing.
And if you haven't had curiosity crushed out of you by memorization drills, algebra is fascinating. If you're teaching it right and letting the math itself do the teaching, you'd be hard pressed to stop kids from learning it. Case in point: In my 6th grade math class, a "substitute" (who I'm fairly sure was actually an education researcher experimenting with math teaching methods, but "substitute" was what they called him) came into the class, which was starting on basic algebra, and taught us what turned out to be differentiation by the power rule. I ended up using that one method in every math class I had from then on -- much to the consternation of my teachers who weren't quite sure how to deal with me doing differential calculus on high school algebra tests -- but I also ended up exploring how polynomials went through simpler and simpler derivatives until they ended up as a constant, and then zero, and gained a whole new appreciation for how they worked, and later on, integration and the fundamental theorem of calculus just sort of fell into place. The power rule is still one of my old friends when it comes to math. But I have that "substitute" to thank for most of the algebra I learned on my own because I couldn't get enough of it -- that one little seed sparked a whole adventure that continued to teach me mathematics for decades afterward.
Granted, I'm a hardcore nerd in a lot of ways, but I'm not entirely sure that's an aspect of who I am and not just an artifact of a society raised on the "math is hard" meme. It's hard, yes, but it's irresistible to a curious mind, and we're all born curious .. it's how we bootstrap every bit of knowledge we gain firsthand about the world. If we stop killing it in the schools, give it a few generations and our PolySci professors wouldn't even think to ask this question..
The piece specifcially suggests higher math requirements are a problem. It does not suggest math is a problem. Therefore you should have RTFA before you made your dumbass remark.
And I use algebra constantly. And knowledge of algebra is necessary for my spreadsheet grade books. And geometric proofs gave me some of the most pleasurable homework/classroom experiences in my K-12 education. I honestly don't think it hurts anyone, everyone, to learn algebra. Maybe calculus is taking it a bit far for _everyone_, but not everyone even takes algebra, so this guy is basically doing the high-brow version of trolling. If anything, I'd say we need MORE math, but of a simpler, more applied variety, like calculating compound interest, household budgets, calories, bills, and so on. But the need for more simple stuff doesn't mean we don't want people to at least have a taste of higher abstract thought and fricking reasoning. God knows, we could do with more reasoning.
That old sort of joke says more about its author and those who think it's funny than it does about the humanities. Yes, there's some BS. But, having worked in the science and now being a humanities professor, I can tell you that there's BS in both. It's just that people tend to think they can or should be able to master the humanities, to, for example, walk up to a sculpture and appreciate what it's about. But sculptors tend to reference other scultors they like, shapes call out to other shapes, materials to materials and traditions of working them, etc. etc.. Certainly there was a fat wodge of bullshit in 80s decon. But that's because it was HARD and poseurs could hide out in that hardness, chatting with one another about the emperor's new Member's Only jacket. And there's been bullshit in every era of the humanities, but most often what is derided as the work of a dunce is really good stuff that just happened to be inimical to the received opinions of its day.
I agree to a point. General education is useful to provide a well rounded education. Sometime in the teen years you can start allowing children to specialize, which is something adults do anyways. Heck, even our brains do it, unless I am wrong about my limited understanding of neuroscience.
The value in math is not what you can do with it. Highest math courses I passed were Calculus and I never went on to anything else in college. To this day I don't use very high level math, the standard deviation equation being a notable exception. I just don't need an absolute ton of math to be programming and administrating the systems that I do. I know there is a *huge* amount of math involved in the platforms that I am using, but I'm working at a much higher level of abstraction and can just use a math class or plugin where required.
The true value of math is learning critical thinking skills and logic. While only a very small percentage of students will ever use it daily, 100% could be benefiting from the critical thinking skills and logic.
Regardless of specialization, those skills need to be taught. Could there be a better way than pure math? Perhaps.
He has gotten a few minutes of glory by killing a sacred cow. In this case The-Math-Is-Vital to-Higher-Education cow. The cow is sacred because it is a good and right cow. An all-the-way-down cow. It is so easy to make a name for yourself by taking contrary positions -- especially if they are outrageous. This specious argument was born to be reported on Cable News. Or *"cough* on Slashdot. Of course these pay-as-you-go degree mills would like to have more customers. So let's just change these ridiculous standards. This guy has an agenda.
Here is my next book? "The Reading Railroad. Speak Don't Write." The summary: With the advent of text to speech and audio recording reading and writing is an unneeded barrier to many otherwise smart people getting PH.Ds. As long as they can get a student loan they can get a doctorate.
"Here. Let me help you with that wordy loan application."
The brain is a mathematical engine. When you catch a fly ball you are solving a differential equation. Intuitively. When you gauge the speed of an oncoming car to cross the street that is Algebra. Hell, even dogs can do it. Sometimes. Mathematics when taught elegantly is interesting. It is a critical structure for the first of the two main components of Education: 1) The Discipline of the Mind (The ability to think) The other being 2) The Furniture of The Mind (Knowledge). Learning a second language, doing mathematics, reading music, writing computer code are all mental disciplines that require a disciplined mind. Knowledge without mental discipline is furniture without a room.
"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
Politics is an art. To analyze politics is a science. Political Science is not the practice of politics; it is the study of politics. Appending Science to the name differentiates the two. Your Physics professor sounds like a douche.
Mathematics is the language used to describe how the world around you works.
I'd go further. It used to be that in the UK everyone going to university had to have a maths O'level which required _simple_ calculus. After all if I had to study Shakespeare before I could do a physics degree shouldn't those studying english study the basic maths developed by Newton to describe the same world that Shakespeare described with his plays?
The way I see it the ultimate aim of the author of TFA is to dumb down the future generations
The dumber future generations get the easier they can be manipulated to do the dirty things that the elites themselves do not want to do
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
They don't teach you mathematics because you'll need to calculate the area of triangles at work, they teach it because it forces you to use logical thinking to solve problems. Critical thinking and logic are essential to solving problems in the real world, no matter where you are.
I am not a bit surprised to see a Political Science professor suggesting the dropping of Algebra from high school curriculum
After all, the objective of political science is "Controlling", and students who never get to learn Algebra (and other logic-based subjects) may grow dumber, and dumb people are easier to control
Do you know that they _ARE_ doing similar things in England?
In England, in some schools, students do not received grades, and they do not know how they fair inside their own class - because, according to those so-called "experts", they do not want to "hurt the feeling of those children who aren't doing well"
In other words, they _are_ doing everything they can to dumb down the future generations to the lowest common denominator
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
what's the use of studying the animal kingdom if there isn't any step further - like improving / changing / experimenting on the animals
There are hundreds of thousands of people who spent many years studying biology and zoology to become veterinarians and, you know, help animals who will disagree with you.
The vast majority of people study history to learn from it, not to make it or rewrite it. The vast majority of people who study psychology don't do so because their plan is to control people and then force them into Cybermen suits. Not everything in life is a conspiracy to rule the world.
Seriously... Slashdot just gets crazier and crazier.
"95% of all Slashdot
>the main problem in early education is that math, with its many abstractions of notation and convention, is brought in far too early
This is a myth from our child development overlords.
My wife, who grew up in Hong Kong, was learning algebra in elementary school. Kids are capable of learning algebra much younger than it's taught here in America. When she immigrated, she literally didn't learn any new math for four years. It's not a mistake we're ranked so poorly in the world math standings.
My great-grandmother could do trig and calculus with a slide rule because that's what they taught her in primary school in the back woods of Tennessee. I think we are by far, less educated than our previous generations and it would be extremely detrimental to us to reduce the learning that students have to do today. When I moved to Georgia from Tennessee, the Georgia schools were 2 years behind in subject matter in the ADVANCED classes. There needs to be a national level of education in this country. I want to know that my daughter would learn the same subjects at the same level regardless of whether we lived in NY, TN, CA, OR or anywhere else.
"My wife, who grew up in Hong Kong, was learning algebra in elementary school. Kids are capable of learning algebra much younger than it's taught here in America. When she immigrated, she literally didn't learn any new math for four years. It's not a mistake we're ranked so poorly in the world math standings." American children are introduced to algebra in the first grade http://www.corestandards.org/the-standards/mathematics/. As a teacher for 10 plus years I can honestly say the problem with the american education system and math education is parenting, politicians and professors. Not all students are capable of higher order thinking and advanced mathematics. In the US our school system seeks to educate each child to the same level, regardless of the individuals intelligence level or health disability. We spend boatloads on children who can not learn. The rights of the incapable is put higher than the right of the capable. Would a baseball team spend 4 times as much on a 5 foot 2 inch overweight, uncoordinated person vs a 6 foot 4 flame thrower. The us education system does. Federal and state mandated require it to do so. 1) Parents. Many american parents do not value there child's education. First, They do not check there child's homework and notes. If your parent does not care you don't care. I have students in my class that show up with no homework, no notebooks and no pencils on a daily basis. Second, Parents think all learning goes on in the classroom. The students in my classrooms that struggle at algebra due to lack of real world experiences at home. Since algebra is a way to describe the world around us, if we do not know much about the world around us we have no reference point. There is not enough hours in the day for a teacher to teach every day activities. I have 7th graders that have no idea what the concept of unit price is thus struggle when the concept of calculating the unit price is introduced. 1) Professors have to published paper after paper. They do studies on a narrow population and then profess the next great solution. One such solution is heterogeneous classrooms that contain students of various intelligence levels. This holds back the mathematically gifted, the average student and the less intelligent students at the same time. Children learn at different rates. My experience has shown that mixing the students creates major problems. The quick responses of strong students ruins the confidence of the weaker. It also provides cover. If someone answers quickly, you do not have to think about it yourself. "An idle mind is the devils workshop" When a student can't keep up or is so smart he finishes at, that students talks and becomes disruptive. 2) Politicians . Politicians are more interested in doing something, anything no matter if it really makes sense or not. There has been 5 different math curriculums in nys in the past 10 years. Large schools have been closed, multiple small schools put in their place. Charter schools opened and closed etc. Strong schools have been forced to take low performing students. TOUGH STANDARDIZED TEST hold back the gifted. The passing grade is so low that unqualified students get passed on to the next level without mastering the earlier level. And the single biggest crime is that special education student get passed to the next grade based on an IEP which sets a far lower level that the student must score on the test. Many of theses students know the game and don't even try. Without a parental push they flounder year after year causing distractions to other students.
1869 Harvard entrance exam
Take a look at that. Now keep in mind that the best you had at the time would have been a slide rule and paper. You say that we are more educated today than the previous generations, I would argue that the majority of kids these days most likely could not answer any of those questions. Hell, I took Algebra, Calc, Trig, Geometry, 6 years of Latin and speak or are familiar with 11 languages and I can barely answer many of those questions.
You say better educated, and I would disagree. I think more people are educated than previous generations and I think that current generational knowledge extends to more subjects, but definitely not better.
Granted, the rate of improvement has slowed down considerably, during the last few decades. However your great-grandmother's generation was definitely not better educated on average than the current one.
Between the article itself and personal experience with educating kids these days, I can guarantee you her generation would run circles around these kids in math, grammar, vocabulary and probably foreign languages. Hell my 71 year old (at the time) Great -Grandmother was able to help me with my Latin lessons 20 years ago and again, she was raised in the back woods of TN where they really only gave a damn about agricultural knowledge.