Images Show Apollo Moon Flags Still Standing

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Images Show Apollo Moon Flags Still Standing

Posted by samzenpus on Monday July 30, 2012 @08:34AM from the planted-to-last dept.

TheNextCorner writes "Images taken by a NASA spacecraft show that the American flags planted in the Moon's soil by Apollo astronauts are mostly still standing. Each of the Apollo missions planted an American flag in the soil at their landing sites. Scientists had previously examined photos of the Apollo landing sites for the flags, and had seen what looked like shadows cast by them on the lunar surface. Now, researchers have studied photos of the landing sites taken at different points during the day (and under different illuminations) and have observed shadows circling the points where the flags are thought to be."

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Amazing! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-30 08:36 · Score: 5, Funny

You'd think that the flags would've been knocked over by all that lunar wind by now.
1. Re:Amazing! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-30 08:40 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Or the desert wind rolling north from Mexico...
2. Re:Amazing! by gman003 · 2012-07-30 09:02 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  You joke, but (IIRC) the Apollo 11 flag was accidentally knocked over during lift-off (rocket engines, unsurprisingly, generate "wind"). They tried to plant the flags further from the craft during later missions, but I guess they were never 100% sure it didn't happen again (I'm about to RTFA to find out).
3. Re:Amazing! by Tablizer · 2012-07-30 11:46 · Score: 2
  
  the Apollo 11 flag was accidentally knocked over during lift-off (rocket engines...
  It would've been fine, but Buzz was doing donuts just after lift-off, and "buzzed it".
  
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But...but... by Mashiki · 2012-07-30 08:37 · Score: 4, Funny

The conspiracy theory nuts keep telling us that the moon landings were fake!

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1. Re:But...but... by gstrickler · 2012-07-30 08:41 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  They'll just say these photos are fake. They have to keep up the illusion.
  
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2. Re:But...but... by MightyMartian · 2012-07-30 08:46 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  That's because they're blithering retards. My advice is to tell them to fuck off, and if they still insist on blathering on, go Buzz Aldrin on them.
  
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3. Re:But...but... by Moses48 · 2012-07-30 08:47 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  oblig http://xkcd.com/1074/
4. Re:But...but... by wjousts · 2012-07-30 08:52 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Do we really have to bring them back? Seems easier not to.
5. Re:But...but... by Beardo+the+Bearded · 2012-07-30 09:26 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  The government was behind the moon landings!
  No, seriously, the landings were faked, but they were filmed on the moon. We've had a base up there since 1958. "We can't film the dark side... for some reason."
  It's a contrail factory.
  
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6. Re:But...but... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-30 09:34 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Because the radiation levels are not as high or as lethal as many would have you believe.
  The van Allen belts, to begin with, are regions of highly energetic particle radiation. Particle radiation can be shielded by quite thin sheets of light metals such as aluminium and plastics. Guess what the Apollo spacecraft was made from.... In addition, the belts are ust that: belts. Space trave is a 3-dimensional problem, and it is quite simple to arrange the flight path from Earth to the Moon such that it passes over or under the most intense areas of the belts. Thirdly, the passage through the belts was during the phase of the journey when they were travelling at their fastest, (20-25,000 mph), so they were not in them for long.
  Cosmic and solar radiation is also largely particle radiation. The EM radiation such as gamma rays and X-rays is not high out there and can be easily attentuated by their spacesuits and spacecraft and endured for the short time they were on the Moon.
  Radiation is a big problem for planned future missions because the intention is to spend months or years at a time there, and when considering radiation exposure duration is critical. Your body can withstand a short high level dose without too much trouble, but steady exposure to lower levels can be fatal after a while.
7. Re:But...but... by crutchy · 2012-07-30 09:46 · Score: 2
  
  the moon base is where they send convicts now because australia is apparently already overpopulated with americans, and LV426 is a no go because people keep getting killed by some mysterious monsters (i don't beleive them because there aren't any real monsters... except the borg that have infiltrated congress)
  
  the moon base is run by jfk and elvis
  
  oh, and the dark side cant be filmed because of the civilization of rock spiders there and because the monolith orbiting jupiter told us not to mess with them
  
  PS. if seven of nine ever runs for my electorate, i'll sure as hell be voting for her... WOOF!
8. Re:But...but... by Ruie · 2012-07-30 09:59 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  You are oversimplifying things. Yes, slow moving charged particles (such as electrons or Helium nuclei) can be easily shielded. However, fast moving particles are much harder to shield against as they create showers of new particles (of lower energy) upon collision.
  The spectrum of these particles extends way up - scientists are busily observing particles with energies on EeV scale (roughly what a moving golfball has), though these are quite rare.
  Neutral particles, like gamma rays, can only be shielded by a bulk material - the penetration depth depends on density.
  Lastly, we have we have direct visual observation of cosmic rays by astronauts on Apollo missions and ISS.
  In summary - being in space is kinda like being on a battlefield - if your general did not screw up the chance of being hit by an artillery shell is quite small. But this does not mean it cannot happen.
9. Re:But...but... by Sketchly · 2012-07-30 10:16 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Why did they wear radiation belts?
10. Re:But...but... by Tablizer · 2012-07-30 10:26 · Score: 2
  
  Then their last radio conversation would be "See, NASA didn't have the technology to bring them back, so they faked it instea......[croak]".
  
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11. Re:But...but... by yurtinus · 2012-07-30 10:36 · Score: 2
  
  It's a more permanent solution than the chastity belts were.
  
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  +1 Disagree
12. Re:But...but... by Coisiche · 2012-07-30 21:37 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  And these photos just provide more ammunition to them if they spin it correctly.
  Take the Apollo 16 site image. The lunar rover is parked some 100 metres from the LEM but everyone knows that an American would never park their vehicle that far from their destination.
  ...
  (Yeah, I know Young parked it there so the on-board camera could be used to capture the capsule ascent.)
Fake by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-30 08:38 · Score: 4, Funny

Photoshop is an incredible program.
1. Re:Fake by codemachine · 2012-07-30 08:49 · Score: 2
  
  Not sure about the moon photos, but I think this might be photoshopped:
  http://dailypicksandflicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/i-think-this-might-be-photoshopped-shark-t-rex-uzi.jpg
2. Re:Fake by mosb1000 · 2012-07-30 11:50 · Score: 2
  
  1) Those NRO surveillance satellites which have been declassified are really big for something you'd send to the moon. You'd need to launch it on a Saturn5 or something similar to get it there.
  2) Contemporary NRO operations are all classified, so we can only speculate about what would be possible.
3. Re:Fake by Ruie · 2012-07-30 12:49 · Score: 2
  
  You want your mirror large in order to resolve small angles and small objects. The smallest angle you can resolve is lambda/D where lambda is the wavelength of light you are using (400nm for near-UV blue) and D is the diameter of your mirror or lens.
  So suppose you have satellite in 100km orbit around the moon with a 2.4meter aperture (like Hubble) using 400nm light. Then the smallest angle you can resolve is 0.034 arcseconds and you cannot resolve features smaller than 16mm. If you use red light (600nm) then you cannot resolve features smaller than an inch.
4. Re:Fake by DigiShaman · 2012-07-30 13:43 · Score: 2
  
  You jest, but you bring up a valid point. Back when I was younger and film cameras ruled the roost, pictures meant absolute proof. Or real close anyways. Now, every modern picture taken is questionable. Because Photoshop is just that good.
  
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this is interesting and all... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-07-30 08:42 · Score: 5, Insightful

...but it would be even MORE interesting if they WEREN'T there anymore.
We might even have a reason to go back and checkout what/who was moving our flags around :)
1. Re:this is interesting and all... by goodmanj · 2012-07-30 09:05 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Why wouldn't they be standing? Because of the exhaust from the lunar module ascent stage's rocket engine. The LM blew all kinds of crap around when it took off, and kicked up dust on the surface. Here's a video of the Apollo 17 lunar liftoff, taken from the lunar rover's remote controlled camera.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iziumcklDbM
2. Re:this is interesting and all... by Art+Challenor · 2012-07-30 09:20 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Technically, there's nothing that shows they are the SAME flags, just SOME flags.
3. Re:this is interesting and all... by hairyfeet · 2012-07-30 10:37 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  A better video if you want to show what kind of mess that rocket kicks up is Apollo 15 because while 17 stayed focused on the ascent with 15 they stayed focused on the lander and you get to see what a mess is left after they fired that engine up, with debris splattered all over the place.
  
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4. Re:this is interesting and all... by Dunbal · 2012-07-30 12:26 · Score: 2
  
  it will spread out in a straight line
  No, it will spread out in a cone. Movement from high pressure to low pressure happens in space, too.
  
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5. Re:this is interesting and all... by multi+io · 2012-07-30 12:58 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  This is the Apollo 14 lift-off from the LEM's onboard camera, which shows the flag at the moment of ignition and the two or three seconds after that. Although the flag holds up, it's pretty obvious how it could have been blown over during the Apollo 11 launch.
6. Re:this is interesting and all... by goodmanj · 2012-07-30 14:17 · Score: 2
  
  Check out an earlier post in this thread for the Apollo 15 video, which stays focused on the landing area. You see a lot more dust kicked up, and little pieces of the LM descent stage being blown off well after the ascent stage has departed, and dust stuck onto the camera lens afterward.
  You're right that gas expansion into a vacuum is a tricky thing, but while the forward front of exhaust gas will move in a straight line, that gas will be moving outward at the speed of exhaust gas molecules (hundreds or thousands of m/s): within a fraction of a second, the entire landing area will be filled with gas -- a thin temporary atmosphere made of exhaust -- and everything afterward will be ordinary fluid mechanics. You're right that the breeze *could* be too gentle to keep the flag standing -- in fact, TFA shows that it was. But my post was trying to explain why it's not obvious either way.
If we had any balls by Spy+Handler · 2012-07-30 08:44 · Score: 4, Insightful

we wouldn't have to forensically analyze long-distance data to figure out if the flags are standing or not. We'd just be looking out the damn window and see.
1. Re:If we had any balls by Tablizer · 2012-07-30 10:40 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Palin can see it from her house
  
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Whew! by partiklehead · 2012-07-30 08:47 · Score: 5, Funny

What a relief!
Imagine having to go all the way back there and fix it.

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1. Re:Whew! by PRMan · 2012-07-30 10:12 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  We'd have to anyway. All US flags are made in China...
  
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Re:Fuck Apple! by Dins · 2012-07-30 08:49 · Score: 4, Informative

Warning: Link above is gay porn...
Ms. Moneypenny, compose a letter to Bart Sibrel! by Chas · 2012-07-30 08:51 · Score: 4, Funny

Dear Mr. Sibrel,
Hope that jaw doesn't ache too much from the jacking that Mr. Aldrin gave it.
Oh yeah, here's more proof from one of our lunar orbiters that there are, indeed, flags on the moon where the landings occurred and that all but one are still standing.
Hoax theory disproved bitch!
NASA

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THANK GOD!!!
Coincidentally... by Airballp · 2012-07-30 08:59 · Score: 5, Funny

Top ranking NASA officials also used the phrase "mostly still standing" to describe the state of the U.S. space program.
Pics would be nice by codepigeon · 2012-07-30 09:00 · Score: 2

From the article: "The most convincing way to see that the flags are still there, is to view a time series of LROC images taken at different times of day, and watch the shadow circle the flag."

Well, those would have been nice to see.
Re:Why does it look like there is no gravity? by bcong · 2012-07-30 09:00 · Score: 2

There is a rod/pole on the top edge to keep it out like it is in a strong wind. Talk about an engineering face palm if the smart engineers at NASA didn't figure out that one sooner rather than later.
Re:Why does it look like there is no gravity? by techno-vampire · 2012-07-30 09:01 · Score: 4, Informative

AIUI, the flag is actually hanging from a thin, stiff rod that holds it up. If it weren't for that, it would always have been hanging down.

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Re:Why does it look like there is no gravity? by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2012-07-30 09:03 · Score: 4, Informative

As I recall (being old enough to have watched the whole thing on TV as a kid) - the moon flags have a rigid frame behind the fabric. Assuming the flag itself is made from actual fabric, which I don't remember. Anyway, the flags would not wave in a breeze.
It would be interesting to revisit the sites and see what kind of shape the flags are in - if there are holes punched through them, for instance.

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Re:Don't we have telescopes? by ckhorne · 2012-07-30 09:20 · Score: 4, Informative

Not even Hubble can resolve that from LEO: http://hubblesite.org/reference_desk/faq/answer.php?id=77&cat=topten
What will happen to that flag. by Animats · 2012-07-30 09:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

About 15 years from now, the ambassador of the People's Republic of China will solemnly return that flag to the President of the United States. Some of the original Apollo astronauts will still be alive to attend. The flag will be placed in the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, for future generations of Americans to admire.
Re:Even if you came back from the dead... by Skarecrow77 · 2012-07-30 09:37 · Score: 2

so you're simultantiously rooting for a literal interpretation of the bible AND for the scientific acheivement of the moon landings.
wow. nice job.
10/10 troll. would read again!
I don't know what the big deal is... by drkim · 2012-07-30 09:43 · Score: 4, Funny

I don't know what the big deal is...
You can see all the flags clearly by going to "Google Moon" and then go to street view.
Of course, they've blurred the license plates on all the LRVs.
1. Re:I don't know what the big deal is... by arthurpaliden · 2012-07-30 10:15 · Score: 2
  
  In the original Google Moon you could zoom all the way in to Swiss Cheese.
  
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Re:Image clarity by pluther · 2012-07-30 10:46 · Score: 2

Uncrop!

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!soil by Nethead · 2012-07-30 10:58 · Score: 2

flags planted in the Moon's soil ..
The lunar surface has no soil. It's all regolith.
Minus one geek point for Samzenpus.

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Re:Even if you came back from the dead... by Talderas · 2012-07-31 00:29 · Score: 2

The niiight Santa went crazy. The night Saint Nick lost his mind.

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