Slashdot Mirror


How Apple v. Samsung Was Explained To the Jury

jfruh writes "10 jurors have been sworn in for the Apple v. Samsung case, which is at the heart of the ongoing patent disputes over the companies' smartphones. While most Slashdot readers are familiar with many of the facts of the case and the law, the jury is at least in theory supposed to be something of a blank slate. Thus, it's interesting to see the detailed instructions Judge Lucy Koh gave to the jury, covering everything from the differences between utility and design patents to how to measure the credibility of witnesses."

35 of 330 comments (clear)

  1. Here's how it was explained by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one first thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Samsung. Samsung is a electronics maker from the country Japan. But Samsung markets in the country America. Now think about it; that does not make sense!

    Why would Samsung, a Japanese electronics manufacturer, want to market to the United States, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall phones? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major computer company, and I'm talkin' about Samsung! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Samsung lives in Japan, you must convict!

    1. Re:Here's how it was explained by zaphod777 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Isn't Samsung from South Korea?

      --
      "Don't Panic!"
    2. Re:Here's how it was explained by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      That does not make sense!

    3. Re:Here's how it was explained by Grygus · · Score: 5, Informative

      Listening to an argument is meaningless when you do not understand the concepts involved. All the judge did was provide a brief glossary for pertinent terms, like "design patent" and "ornamental design." There is nothing underhanded going on.

    4. Re:Here's how it was explained by russotto · · Score: 3, Funny

      Isn't Samsung from South Korea?

      Forget it, he's on a roll.

    5. Re:Here's how it was explained by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Think of it this way - instead of Umpire's at a baseball game calling balls/strikes/outs MLB
      decides it would be better for unpartial outsiders to come in and call the game. When they arrive
      they don't know the rules - so on coach argues safe and the other coach argues out but you
      didn't know what safe or out even meant and what actions lead to them it would be hard for
      you to make an informed decision - so before hearing the arguments from opposing coaches
      who (since they are opposing) will be syaing the exact opposite of each other, the league has
      an expert explain all the rules of the game to you and tells you what information to use when
      making your decision (i.e. what you saw/heard, video replay, etc.) and what *not* to consider
      (how loud a coach yells, how much spit is drooling don his chin, etc.)

  2. Oracle vs Google by zaphod777 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am hopping that Apple gets smacked own as hard as Oracle did in the Oracle vs Google case. A flat rectangle with a touch screen is not a patentable design. Plus Samsung had many similar prototypes in the works before the iPhone even debuted.

    --
    "Don't Panic!"
    1. Re:Oracle vs Google by bhagwad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Agreed. To my mind, this trial should NOT be about whether Samsung "copied" Apple designs. It's about all of Apple's smartphone "design patents" being invalidated and them being sanctioned for misusing the judicial process by applying for frivolous patents. Then they should also pay Samsung's legal fees and a public apology for being dickheads.

    2. Re:Oracle vs Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the patent office needs to be smacked down a bit, too. This entire class of patents is ridiculous. You shouldn't able to patent a shape unless that shape advances science and the useful arts. Create a 4th dimensional Hypercube? Fine, that deserves a patent. Create a rectangle made of glass an, metal and plastic? Hell no!

    3. Re:Oracle vs Google by Adrian+Lopez · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "A flat rectangle with a touch screen is not a patentable design."

      I shudder to think what, say, the musical instrument market would look like today if the designs of cellos, violins, classical guitars, grand pianos, and countless other instruments with roughly equivalent shapes were similarly protected.

      --
      "In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
    4. Re:Oracle vs Google by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't see her doing that. She seems to be explaining the boundaries of the case that she and the lawyers have "agreed" to, and what the jury needs to decide on. I didn't notice her telling them how to think.

      The fact is the case is so broad and there are so many nits to pick, I'd be surprised if the jury could do anything rational with it.

    5. Re:Oracle vs Google by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Design patents serve a somewhat useful purpose, although I think things like trademark and trade dress serve the purpose better. Just like utility patents, the problem isn't necessarily that they exist, but that USPTO is handing them out like candy. A deliberately minimalistic design with no distinguishing features other than its minimalism shouldn't qualify for a design patent, just as an extremely obvious patent that is just performing an existing operation on a new class of device shouldn't qualify for a utility patent.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    6. Re:Oracle vs Google by docmordin · · Score: 4, Informative

      A flat rectangle with a touch screen is not a patentable design.

      This is an erroneous claim. To see why, it is instructive to see what the US Patent Office has to say about design patents:

      "A design consists of the visual ornamental characteristics embodied in, or applied to, an article of manufacture. Since a design is manifested in appearance, the subject matter of a design patent application may relate to the configuration or shape of an article, to the surface ornamentation applied to an article, or to the combination of configuration and surface ornamentation. A design for surface ornamentation is inseparable from the article to which it is applied and cannot exist alone. It must be a definite pattern of surface ornamentation, applied to an article of manufacture.

      The Patent Law provides for the granting of design patents to any person who has invented any new, original and ornamental design for an article of manufacture. A design patent protects only the appearance of the article and not its structural or utilitarian features. The principal statutes (United States Code) governing design patents are:

      35 USC 171: Whoever invents any new, original and ornamental design for an article of manufacture may obtain a patent therefor, subject to the conditions and requirements of this title. The provisions of this title relating to patents for inventions shall apply to patents for designs, except as otherwise provided.

      [...]

      35 USC 102: A person shall be entitled to a patent unless: (a) the invention was known or used by others in this country, or patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country, before the invention thereof by the applicant for patent, or (b) the invention was patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country or in public use or on sale in this country, more than one year prior to the date of the application for patent in the United States, or (c) he has abandoned the invention, or (d) the invention was first patented or caused to be patented, or was the subject of an inventor’s certificate, by the applicant or his legal representatives or assigns in a foreign country prior to the date of the application for patent in this country on an application for patent or inventor’s certificate filed more than twelve months before the filing of the application in the United States, or (e) the invention was described in (1) an application for patent, published under section 122 (b), by another filed in the United States before the invention by the applicant for patent or (2) a patent granted on an application for patent by another filed in the United States before the invention by the applicant for patent, except that an international application filed under the treaty defined in section 351 (a) shall have the effects for the purposes of this subsection of an application filed in the United States only if the international application designated the United States and was published under Article 21(2) of such treaty in the English language; or (f) he did not himself invent the subject matter sought to be patented, or (g) (1) during the course of an interference conducted under section 135 orsection 291, another inventor involved therein establishes, to the extent permitted in section 104, that before such person’s invention thereof the invention was made by such other inventor and not abandoned, suppressed, or concealed, or (2) before such person’s invention thereof, the invention was made in this country by another inventor who had not abandoned, suppressed, or concealed it. In determining priority of invention under this subsection, there shall be considered not only the respective dates of conception and reduction to practice of the invention, but also the reasonable diligence of one who was first to conceive and last to reduce to practice, from a time prior to conception by the other.

      35 USC 103: (a) A patent may not be obtained though the invention is not identic

    7. Re:Oracle vs Google by Swampash · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Fender Stratocaster was released in 1954 and totally changed the then-new electric guitar market. You can look at well-known electric guitar designs like the Telecaster and the Les Paul and just SEE that they were created before the Stratocaster was released. And you can look at a metric fucktonne of electric guitar designs and just SEE that they were created AFTER the Stratocaster was released. There's a clear point at which the "before Strat" electric guitar industry became the "after Strat" electric guitar industry. The shape of the Fender Stratocaster - influenced by pre-existing stringed instruments like the cello, but still new and unlike any electric guitar made before - became what electric guitars look like.

      Fender did not pursue the Strat-clone manufacturers in court; and then after attempting to trademark the iconic Statocaster contours decades later, a court ruled in 2009 that "the body shapes were generic and that consumers do not solely associate these shapes with Fender Musical Instruments Corporation". The ruling went so far as to say "in the case of the [Stratocaster] body outline, this configuration is so common that it is depicted as a generic electric guitar in a dictionary." (bolds mine)

      Apple ain't making that mistake.

    8. Re:Oracle vs Google by rtb61 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Those appearance patents are only meant to prevent another companies product being sold in the same guise as the patent holder's product. The point of protection being if people were buying the Samsung product in the mistaken belief it was an iPhone. That should be the only thing viewed by the judge. If people are buying the Samsung product based upon preferring the software Android, then that should be the end of it, they are not confusing the offerings, this is clearly a gross abuse of the intent of design patents.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    9. Re:Oracle vs Google by wierd_w · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The clear issue that stands out there, is that apple's design is neither new, nor original, and therefor not applicable for patent protection.

      As others have pointed out, the combination of "rectangular, thin, with rounded corners and a small bezel border" is not new, and existed in aesthetic designs of personal devices prior to apple's adoption of the aesthetic feature set.

      Apple is more claiming that it has taken the old and made it its own, which is now an apple signature appearance-- sure, they can do that, but that falls under trade dress and trade mark, not patent. Similarly to marvel owning red and blue packaging with a spiderweb motif for spiderman products. Making a generic product called "arachnaboy" and packaging it in red and blue blister packs with spiderweb motifs is a trade dress violation. Not a patent violation.

      Apple should not have been granted this patent, due to prior art for other personal electronic devices. Claiming "but never a phone or tablet computer!" Does not magically make the aesthetic design novel, nor new.

      I hope apple gets their precious little patent used as toilet paper, because in its current form it is completely without value.

    10. Re:Oracle vs Google by santax · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just don't copy the shape of the neck-head. That will get you in trouble.

    11. Re:Oracle vs Google by zaphod777 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But did he try and sue and try to prevent anyone else from painting rectangles?

      --
      "Don't Panic!"
    12. Re:Oracle vs Google by docmordin · · Score: 3, Informative

      (Submitting this comment again, since it apparently didn't get accepted the first time)

      As I mentioned above, according to the US Patent Office, Apple's design met their criteria to merit the awarding of a patent. Whether or not the jury, and likely the appeal courts, agree, is still debatable.

      To elaborate a bit on this, and also better refine by above post, Apple's design patents do not cover all rectangular-shaped electronic devices with rounded corners. Apple's design patents, e.g., for the iPad (D504,889, and others), are rather precise, and, ultimately, limited: they cover an article with a certain kind of case design, a specific screen placement and size ratio with respect to the body, and input port/button location. Provided that other companies/individuals do not, practically, reuse the same design elements, i.e., an article doesn't have buttons in the same locations, similar stylizations in the same locations, the same kind of package design, etc., the US Patent Office is willing to grant design patents.

      Now, the court's view is mostly aligned with the US Patent Office's on what constitutes a valid design, i.e., the design threshold needed to afford protection via a patent. To begin, it is helpful to at least outline some preliminary case law about design patents:

      "A design patent protects the nonfunctional aspects of an ornamental design as shown in the patent." (Elmer v. ICC Fabricating, Inc., 67 F.3d 1571, 1577 (Fed. Cir. 1995) (citing Keystone Retaining Wall Sys., Inc. v. Westrock, Inc., 997 F.2d 1444, 1450 (Fed. Cir. 1993))) The chief limitation on the patentability of designs is that they must be primarily ornamental in character. If the design is dictated by performance of the article, then it is judged to be functional and ineligible for design patent protection. (Best Lock Corp. v. Ilco Unican Corp., 94 F.3d 1563, 1566 (Fed. Cir. 1996))

      As for case law about design thresholds, I found it by looking through that concerning infringement (a design patent is infringed by the "unauthorized manufacture, use, or sale of the article embodying the patented design or any colorable imitation thereof." (Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. v. Hercules Tire & Rubber Co., 162 F.3d 1113, 1116-17 (Fed. Cir. 1998))):

      Similar to the infringement analysis of a utility patent, infringement of a design patent is evaluated in a two-step process. First, the court must construe the claims of the design patent to determine their meaning and scope. (OddzOn Prods., Inc. v. Just Toys, Inc., 122 F.3d 1396, 1404-05 (Fed. Cir. 1997)) Design patents typically are claimed as shown in drawings. Claim construction by a court is adapted accordingly. Goodyear, 162 F.3d at 1116. The scope of the claim of a patented design “encompasses ‘its visual appearance as a whole,’ and in particular ‘the visual impression it creates.’” (Contessa Food Prods., Inc. v. Conagra, Inc., 282 F.3d 1370, 1376 (Fed. Cir. 2002) (quoting Durling v. Spectrum Furniture Co., 101 F.3d 100, 104-05 (Fed. Cir. 1996)))

      Second, after construction of the patent’s claims, the court is to compare the construed claims to the accused design. Elmer, 67 F.3d at 1577. Infringement of a design patent occurs if "the designs have the same general visual appearance, such that it is likely that the purchaser [(or the ordinary observer)] would be deceived into confusing the design of the accused article with the patented design." (Goodyear, 162 F.3d at 1118) The patented and accused designs do not have to be identical in order for design patent infringement to be found. (Contessa, 282 F.3d at 1376) In determining infringement of a design patent, the court "is not limited to the ornamental features of a subset of the drawings, but instead must encompass the claimed ornamental features of all figures of a design patent." (Id. at 1379 (emphasis added))

      The comparison of the patented and accused designs involves two separate tests, both of which must be satisfied to find infringement: the "ordina

    13. Re:Oracle vs Google by Anubis+IV · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It came out a few days ago when a lot of the discovery material was unsealed that something like 25% of the returns to Best Buy for the Samsung products Apple is citing in this case as infringing were because the customer incorrectly thought they were purchasing an Apple product and returned it once they realized it wasn't.

      As you said, it's something that should be considered, and it sounds like it will be, since they have numbers on it.

  3. Hahaha! by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While most Slashdot readers are familiar with many of the facts of the case and the law...

    Hahaha!

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  4. Re:Judge Lucy Koh by NatasRevol · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wait, you mean a judge previously issued a legal ruling?

    BIAS!!!

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  5. Re:Judge Lucy Koh by guises · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't know what his bias is, but the facts are that she granted an injunction against the sale of Samsung phones on the basis of a few very weak patents. The strongest of which, apparently, was a search function that could search both the local phone and the internet at the same time.

    I am not optimistic about this case.

  6. Function based design by RichMan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You want a screen on the front. Ok it will be flat in front.
    You want to minimize cost. Ok as few elements as possible
    You want to use it flat on a desk. Ok it will be flat in the back.
    You want it to fit in a pocket. Ok it will be rectangular. .... form follows function. Similar function means similar form.

    1. Re:Function based design by Swampash · · Score: 4, Informative

      You want a screen on the front. Ok it will be flat in front.
      You want to minimize cost. Ok as few elements as possible
      You want to use it flat on a desk. Ok it will be flat in the back.
      You want it to fit in a pocket. Ok it will be rectangular. .... form follows function. Similar function means similar form.

      Yet strangely enough no-one actually did all this totally-obvious stuff with a phone before the iPhone was released.

    2. Re:Function based design by Dynedain · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You want a screen on the front. Ok it will be flat in front.
      Yet before Apple, every smartphone and tablet had substantial bezels encroaching the screen to "protect" the screen if you put it face down, plus give you a space to grab onto. Apple made significant design impact that changed the market radically.

      You want to minimize cost. Ok as few elements as possible
      Actually, Apple has spent far more to achieve the minimalist design. This is common as minimalist designs (from products to architecture) usually require far more expensive manufacturing processes to achieve more precise tolerances since any minor manufacturing mistake is much harder to hide. Also, sacrifices must be made to assembly parts, often requiring all new parts be created to meet the form-factor constraints. Not to mention labor costs in design are much higher.

      You want to use it flat on a desk. Ok it will be flat in the back.
      Is Apple really challenging a flat back? Didn't think so.

      You want it to fit in a pocket. Ok it will be rectangular
      There have been many different ratios of screensize and device. Apple's particular ratios were not common in mobile devices pre-iPhone.

      Now, combine everything together so that the design patents are seen as a whole, and yes, Apple made a fairly innovative product that has dramatically changed the smartphone market (including triggering the downfall of RIM and Palm). Pretending that what Apple did is somehow uninovative because other products had this or that feature before is ignoring reality.

      And here's the big kicker. So what if Samsung had internal prototypes and designs that look similar to the iPhone before the iPhone launched? Apple got to market first, and used the Design Patent system as it is intended to protect their design from knock-offs and wannabees. Sucks to be Samsung, but thats how this is meant to work.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    3. Re:Function based design by Swampash · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ever looked at the nokia-line? 3310? 8850? And a zillion other phones just like that?

      What, you mean phones that are NOT flat on the front, have LOTS of interface elements (shit, count the frickin' buttons), are NOT flat in the back, and are NOT rectangular - and in the case of the 8850, actually change shape and size depending on what you're doing at the time?

  7. Re:Why? by bhagwad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A time comes for every electronic device where the basic form factor becomes obvious. Let me tell you that I was using pure touchscreen devices with rounded corners long before Apple came out with the iPhone. Apple was the only company dickish enough to patent the designs the industry was already converging on. For that they should be sanctioned.

    I mean, even in a world where corporations are generally assholes, Apple managed to outdo the other players in the industry in sheer assholery. That's the only thing they deserve a patent for.

  8. Re:Judge Lucy Koh by wierd_w · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I would argue that apple's design patent is invalid.

    Here is why, and it has nothing to do with opinion of apple:

    A design patent can only be legally issued for "unique, new, and novel" shapes and design motifs.

    Apple's idevice designs are none of those. They basically looked at a cheap plastic picture frame, and copied it.

    Many consumer products come in this form factor, and have for a very long time. Here are some examples:

    Chinese dry erase board, tablet size

    Wooden round cornered picture frames

    aluminum picture frame, chinese

    For reference, here is what the iPad looks like.

    complimentary iPad image

    The color of the inactive display (black) is not a design feature. It is a feature of how the technology works.

    I have seen plastic picture frames that are flat out strikingly like the iPad in aesthetic design in art stores since the late 80s, when plastic really became popular as a choice. If you are showcasing an image, using a picture frame as an aesthetic inspiration is a no-brainer.

    Apple should not have been granted this patent.

  9. Re:Why? by bhagwad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's amazing how deep you're encased in Apple's lies to the extent that you can't even believe that there were other similar phones before. Tut tut.

  10. Re:Judge Lucy Koh by wierd_w · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It could very easily exist in the form of a digital picture frame, which would then look very much like an idevice, and be a digital device.

    Claiming "but not in a digital device!" Is like claiming "On the internet!" Or "On a computer!" In a patent for something done commonly for years, as if it were not obvious.

    While comonly granted, such protections should not have been enacted.

  11. Re:Judge Lucy Koh by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Besides, Sammy is fucked. Their internal communications basically said, "copy the iPhone. Now. Before we become irrelevant.". That's fucking damning.

     
    If you know Koreans, you would know that one special Korean characteristic is that they are one of the most stubborn race in this world
     
    If you ever talk to any ship crew or flight crew that had Korean captains, you would understand why ship crews / flight crews all over the world are very scared of Korean captains - even when there is a huge storm brewing in front of the vessel/plane, the Korean captain would still give the "go straight ahead" order
     
    Even after Google warned them of their products look too much like that from Apple, Samsung still went ahead and did what they did
     

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  12. Re:Judge Lucy Koh by justforgetme · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Bias towards what? Common sense?

    --
    -- no sig today