Store Offers Kinect Body Scanner To Help You Find Jeans That Fit

itwbennett writes "For those of you who can't count on a friend to tell you that a little more air should come between you and your Calvins, a Bloomingdales store in Palo Alto has just the solution: An Xbox Kinect-based body scanner that will help you find your best fit. While body measuring systems aren't new, using the Xbox Kinect is a much more affordable solution. Which means that soon we'll all have the opportunity for a computer to tell us that we should 'avoid wearing low to mid rise jeans.'"

Comments

TSA to Small Companies at the speed of "vote"!

[Anonymous Coward]

We just knew our government was controlled by business interests, and finally, by re-investing the TSA scanner technology, we finally know who they are!

They're..... small businesses?

Fine, we hang up our trolling protester hats and walk away.

-Anonymous

Re:TSA to Small Companies at the speed of "vote"!

[RaceProUK]

Backscatter x-ray(?) that can see through clothing vs. low-res IR camera where you have to choose to strip off first. I can see how you'd confuse the two.

Unless you're trying to be funny, in which case, try harder.

where is my clothing synthesizer?

[warrenb10]

Just about every time I try to buy clothes I walk away thinking about how they used to predict that in the future (that is, by now) we'd stand in front of a big screen that projected an image of us, we'd be able to fiddle with some knobs to pick clothing, see how it would look on us, and it would get custom-made to not just fit perfectly but also in whatever fabric, color, style, etc. we wanted. Note to the folks who make 3D printers, make one that does fabric.

Re:where is my clothing synthesizer?

[jamesh]

Just about every time I try to buy clothes I walk away thinking about how they used to predict that in the future (that is, by now) we'd stand in front of a big screen that projected an image of us, we'd be able to fiddle with some knobs to pick clothing, see how it would look on us, and it would get custom-made to not just fit perfectly but also in whatever fabric, color, style, etc. we wanted. Note to the folks who make 3D printers, make one that does fabric.

Sweat shop slave labour is cheaper.

Re:where is my clothing synthesizer?

[antifoidulus]

Just get a couple of different colors of body paint, and hey, your only limited by your imagination(and perhaps public decency laws)

Re:where is my clothing synthesizer?

[hackertourist]

You rang?

I've seen 'cloth' printed to this design; it is somewhat flexible but more akin to chainmail than fabric.

it will work great*

[citizenr]

with 5cm (or worse) error rate from few meters.

*on fat people?

Re:it will work great*

[Anonymous Coward]

When picking the cut of jeans, the shapes are more important than sizes.

Re:it will work great*

[PolygamousRanchKid]

with 5cm (or worse) error rate from few meters.

. . . and it can't be used in the US, because they don't use the metric system there . . .

Re:it will work great*

[MightyYar]

We use both. I'm an engineer, so I'm biased, but there is plenty of metric going on in the US - a certain software program involved with the Mars exploration program notwithstanding :)

We mostly use imperial units for stuff that doesn't matter, like milk or the speed of cars down highways. It makes sense - why should I toss all of my grandmother's cookbooks, or even go through the effort of converting them? Even then, we have both metric and imperial units printed on all of the products, and even our speedometers... which is pretty handy when driving in Canada.

Re:it will work great*

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason the Metric system never caught on in the U.S. is because our chickens don't lay metric eggs.

Re:it will work great*

[xaxa]

We mostly use imperial units for stuff that doesn't matter, like milk or the speed of cars down highways. It makes sense - why should I toss all of my grandmother's cookbooks, or even go through the effort of converting them?

Because then you'd be more familiar with the units, which might enable you to spot mistakes more easily (as in, "50g? Why is this 50g, surely they mean 5g!"), where otherwise using different units obscures them.

How fast is 80km/h? Residential road, large road, highway, or what?

"Max. capacity 1200kg" -- how many people?

"50C when operating" -- safe to touch?

Or, how easily can you work out how much cholesterol there is in half a bottle of milk, when it says "14mg per 100mL" on the side, but the capacity is a quart?

Also, the US seems to use all kinds of archaic units for different things. Bushels of wheat, barrels of oil, troy ounces of gold, normal ounces of everything else, the short ton, long ton, a foot, a survey foot, a pint, a dry pint, a peck, ... do you know conversions for all these?

Re:it will work great*

[PPalmgren]

Because then I'd be more familiar with the units, which might enable me to spot mistakes more easily (as in, "50g? Why is this 50g, surely they mean 5g!"), where otherwise using different units obscures them.

FTFY

People in the US can easily spot mistakes with imperial units as we're taught both systems in school. Truth is, imperial is actually simpler for household things like baking and cooking, because you're usually working in single digit numbers rather than triple digit numbers, which is great for the mathematically impaired. Fahrenheit also makes sense for temperature because of how much of a temperature difference we can feel, which is why a lot of metric thermostats go up in increments of .5 instead of whole numbers. Imperial is about sensible everyday life portions and their increments. Why should people who only use math for cooking have to re-learn everything simply for your peace of mind? This is on top of the fact that the overhaul of the US would cost trillions in signage alone.

Re:it will work great*

[MightyYar]

How fast is 80km/h? Residential road, large road, highway, or what?

Wouldn't matter - all the signage in the US is in MPH. If you really needed the conversion, you'd look down at your speedometer since both units are printed there. This happens when you cross over to the Canadian side in your car and everything is in KPH.

"Max. capacity 1200kg" -- how many people?

It depends on what state you are in, but our elevators universally have the capacity in pounds. Some states require a kg label as well, and some require a maximum capacity defined in number of persons. If the ignorant American were traveling, then it probably wouldn't be an issue because chances are a capacity elevator in Europe would contain at least one non-American familiar with the metric system. That is, if the elevator didn't just beep at you until someone steps out.

"50C when operating" -- safe to touch?

I might be too optimistic, but I think most Americans know that 100C is boiling and 0C is freezing. It might take them a while to figure out 50C is very warm but not scalding hot, but I'd hope the label would have a big HOT label if it was a real hazard. Anyway, unless you were dealing with a weird specialty piece of equipment, the label would probably have F printed on it as well. The machines I work on use C, but they definitely qualify as "weird specialty equipment" :)

do you know conversions for all these?

No, not offhand. But they are all on my smartphone, and I'm not in an industry that uses those units so it quite literally never effects me. If I hauled freight for a living, I'd sure as hell know what the different kinds of tons were. If I were a farmer, I'd probably be familiar with bushels. A bushel of wheat is typically too much for my family :)

Besides, how many European countries can say that their construction workers are adept at fractions? :)

Re:it will work great*

[Anonymous Coward]

As an American, without aide of conversion tools, I'll take a crack:

1 mile = 1.6 KM, so 1m is (very) roughly 2km, but that's erring on the small side anyways. 80km/hour is about 45 MPH. Not a multilane highway (that's about 55-60MPH) but not too crowded either, definitely not dedicated residential or inside a city.

1200Kg - A KG seems to be about 2 pounds, so 2400lbs. Assuming 200lbs per person (for easy division) that comes out to 12 people on the heavier side. I haven't seen too many elevators where many more could even fit into the space unless they were dedicated freight elevators.

50C when operating. 26C is about 70F, isn't it? That would put 50 over 100F. As I recall, boiling in F is something like 200 degrees... (200 - 30)/2 + 30 = 115*... should be safe but to be sure I'd still pause before actual contact to feel the air temp around it before contact.

(double check to confirm: 50mph, 2600lbs (13 people or more), and 122*F.)

Re:it will work great*

[xaxa]

All three replies have missed the point, so evidently I didn't make it very well. I'll try making it the other way round.

When road signs in the US say things like "2000 feet" it takes too long for me to parse the unfamiliar number and unit, remember the conversion (1/3 metre) and do the calculation (less than 700m). If there's an added problem -- perhaps I can't see what the sign is for -- I'm likely to doubt my conversion. Did I miss a zero or something?

Fortunately, nothing important (engineering/science/etc) is done in feet, including in America (according to the GGP post), so it doesn't really matter.

But important stuff does use metric units, and many people in America working with them aren't as familiar with them as they could be.

Truth is, imperial is actually simpler for household things like baking and cooking, because you're usually working in single digit numbers rather than triple digit numbers, which is great for the mathematically impaired.

Really? Many people seem to struggle with fractions.

There's no reason cooking using metric couldn't use fractions -- half-kilo, quarter-kilo, eight-kilo etc -- yet it doesn't. The fractions make it more complicated to scale recipes.

Fahrenheit also makes sense for temperature because of how much of a temperature difference we can feel, which is why a lot of metric thermostats go up in increments of .5 instead of whole numbers

They don't (or if they do, I bet the Fahrenheit scale goes up in 0.5 too), and most systems aren't that accurate anyway (the heat/cooling doesn't kick in again if the temperature has fallen/risen by only 0.5C).

Re:it will work great*

[xaxa]

I think that part of my post was a distraction from my main point -- see the reply above.

Re:it will work great*

[MightyYar]

But important stuff does use metric units, and many people in America working with them aren't as familiar with them as they could be.

I've yet to meet an engineer who cannot grok metric. In fact, most of us seem to prefer working in metric. I still shudder at the unit "slugs". If you work with metrics on a day-to-day basis, it becomes second nature.

Really? Many people seem to struggle with fractions

Well, I made the point about construction workers in jest - but in American construction, we still use inches, feet, and fractions thereof. Tape measures are all in 64ths of inches. People in construction are good at fractions :) I find them to be a PITA.

Temperature is completely arbitrary no matter which system you use... probably the least useful metric measure. I've never seen a kilo-degree or a milli-degree. And even in engineering, the conversion between C and K or F and K is only slightly easier. C is mostly useless in engineering, though you can often use it in delta calculations (since delta K is equal to delta C).

Re:it will work great*

[Immerman]

Seeing how as you'd have to strip to get a good body-shape analysis, how likely is it that these scanners would be used in a space a few meters across? I'm guessing the Kinect FOV is considerably wider than it is tall, in which case the logical thing to do would be to rotate it 90* and put it as close to the subject as possible without cropping their head/feet, in which case I'm guessing the resolution would be much better than 5cm.

Re:it will work great*

[cayenne8]

"Honey, do these jeans make my ass look big?"

No, you ASS makes your ass look big....

[laughing to self, while moving on to next girlfriend]

Re:it will work great*

[Fallen Kell]

Truth is, imperial is actually simpler for household things like baking and cooking, because you're usually working in single digit numbers rather than triple digit numbers, which is great for the mathematically impaired.

Really? Many people seem to struggle with fractions.

There's no reason cooking using metric couldn't use fractions -- half-kilo, quarter-kilo, eight-kilo etc -- yet it doesn't. The fractions make it more complicated to scale recipes.

That is the whole point of imperial units, 1 gallon = 4 quarts, 1 quart = 2 pints, 1 pint = 2 cups, 1 cup = 16 tablespoons, 1 tablespoon = 3 teaspoons.... You don't need to use fractions, you simply use the smaller unit. Yes, for some things it is easier to use a fraction (cups is the one that comes to mind most often, but that is taken care of with a "measuring cup" anyway which has lines for 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, 3/4). This way, people don't use have fractions or decimal places in their cooking receipts, because as said, too many people struggle with understanding them.

Fahrenheit also makes sense for temperature because of how much of a temperature difference we can feel, which is why a lot of metric thermostats go up in increments of .5 instead of whole numbers

They don't (or if they do, I bet the Fahrenheit scale goes up in 0.5 too), and most systems aren't that accurate anyway (the heat/cooling doesn't kick in again if the temperature has fallen/risen by only 0.5C).

Typically not. The only place that uses tenths or hundredths of a degree in Fahrenheit is for measuring a person's temperature to find if they are above normal temperature (and have an infection/illness/etc.). Pretty much everything else is simply in whole digits of Fahrenheit because as said, the difference in 1 degree in Fahrenheit is about what a human can physically detect and tell the difference in. Any less than a full degree and you have a hard time distinguishing it, which makes it work perfectly well for just about any situation, cooking, outside temperature, and inside temperature settings for heating/cooling systems. But for Celsius, you must use increments of .5 degrees (and thus more fractions that are so difficult for so many people to comprehend), but in Fahrenheit, that is just a whole degree (as 1 degree change in Fahrenheit is approx. .5 degree change in Celsius).

You might as well...

[thomas8166]

...use the TSA's devices for even greater precision on your body measurements. Wait, maybe not...

Fifth Element

[Quakeulf]

But will we see futuristic clothing to reflect this? I can only think of a certain "mooolteeepass".

This is great

[Anonymous Coward]

When this comes to a place (and a website) near me, I'll start buying clothes online.

Up until now I have only bought books, gadgets and teas.

I wear Swedish jeans and like them tight...

[acidfast7]

who needs a scanner to tell you if they fit AND what's with Americans and those super loose jeans :(

Re:I wear Swedish jeans and like them tight...

[bluefoxlucid]

American girls should have hip huggers with bell bottoms. Not hippie flair, just a little flair out around the calves. The country look makes them seem perpetually young.

Re:I wear Swedish jeans and like them tight...

[hackertourist]

It's ideal for people who don't know what size they wear (like me: clothes shopping is infrequent enough that the information tends to get lost). Saves me from having to try on different sizes.

And here we've arrived at the big drawback of this system: you need more parameters than just the size info on the label to determine whether clothes will fit. Considering the inconsistency in label info between manufacturers, it's going to be a pain to get all the info you need.

Re:I wear Swedish jeans and like them tight...

[CAIMLAS]

I suppose it depends on the gender and the subculture.

Baggy jeans are popular in the ghettos because they allow for easy concealment of illicit items. That's been entombed in gangster music at this point.

Tight jeans are popular with women, particularly 'skinny jeans', because the thought is that it accentuates their curves and makes them look skinny (I imagine). IMO, the joke's on them: they're only supposed to be worn by truly skinny girls; otherwise, it makes their fat asses more noticeable.

In outdoor work cultures, which is still most of the US, a 'Wranglers jeans' cut is still popular. There are a number of reasons for this. If you're familiar with chaps, it will allow chaps to actually be worn. The cut is also fairly functional, allowing for generally easy movement while still not chaffing while eg. riding a horse or 4 wheeler. The denim is also able to be thicker and stiffer with a cut like this, allowing for long wear. Meanwhile, they're tight enough to keep the important bits close enough to the body to not get caught on something running past, as easily snagged on something like barbed wire, and won't be as likely to get filthy after a day out in a field.

Then there's 'loose fit bootcut' jeans. They allow for the greatest amount of movement while still not getting in your way, while working. They're a 'tradesman's cut' - the persona can more easily perform more flexibility-requiring tasks, like bending, stooping, crawling, etc.

I don't know about what "Swedish jeans" are, but I can tell you that 'tight jeans' are the domain of useless hipsters here in the US. The denim isn't thick enough to be useful as such and might as well be a light twill, and allowed movement is pretty negligible.

CowboyNeal

[EnsilZah]

Buffer overflow attack.

That is all.

wondering

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a kinect sensor at home... why isn't this an app on my xbox?

If only there was a simpler solution

[DrXym]

Someone should invent a flexible strip with numbered markings on it that could be wrapped around a waist to obtain this measurement. I'm cautiously hopeful that one day science will develop such a thing.

Re:If only there was a simpler solution

[karnal]

I've had jeans in the past that fit around the waist perfectly; in other areas (ahem) it seems the designer forgot that I had some other equipment down there.

And no, they weren't ladies' jeans.

Re:If only there was a simpler solution

[DrXym]

I'm not sure how you think standing in front of a Kinect will help unless you're required to strip first so it can measure the size of your wedding tackle.

Most people already know their size, or could find it easily and then try the jeans on in a changing room.

Re:If only there was a simpler solution

[bluefoxlucid]

I would hope not. Ladies shouldn't have extra equipment down there.

Re:If only there was a simpler solution

[hibiki_r]

Most stores sell pants using only the length of the legs and the length at the waist. That's nowhere near enough to fit many body types. If I want them to fit perfectly, I need to have them altered. Buying off the rack, most options in my size will fit very badly: At most I'll find one pair that is tolerable.

I'd love to be able to just skip all the styles that will not fit well at all without having to try them out, and a system like this could theoretically do it.

Re:If only there was a simpler solution

[Ironhandx]

I have a large ass inherited from my mother. I feel your pain.

I HAD one single bastion of decency with relaxed and baggy fit sizes and now that places has gone to the dogs ever since they introduced women's clothing into the store. Its like since they did that they make the fucking mens clothes in a similar style to the women's. There are only like 3 items left that are still the same.

DAMN YOU WHOEVER DOES THE DESIGNING AT MARKS WORK WAREHOUSE!

Re:If only there was a simpler solution

[DrXym]

I still don't see why you believe this system would help you in the slightest.

Even if you need made to measure clothing this system will not and could not provide those measurements unless you stripped off in front of it so it could accurately measure your shape. Even then it just uses them to look up a database for a matching size of jeans. Anyone who has put on two different brands could tell you that the same measurements could yield totally different fits so it doesn't save you any effort at all.

In fact all the system does IMO is provide the show of personalized service without actually adding anything useful to the equation. A customer should already know what their dimensions are and would know what sizes to try on. Whatever the machine says is not going to add anything useful to the equation.

Already know wha I want/need

[smooth wombat]

I already know what jeans fit me. Stores simply refuse to get them in my size since I'm not a hippo.

Re:Already know wha I want/need

[CAIMLAS]

I'm only able to find jeans at places like Cabelas or Sportsman's Warehouse now: 32"x34" loose fit bootcut. Everywhere else tends to not have that.

Tubular!

[Hognoxious]

Now that's sorted, can it tell me where to get my toenails cut (even if they're like totally grody)?

Will it make shopping quicker?

[captainpanic]

I know that TFA says something different... but could this maybe also mean that a 1-time purchase of an Xbox kinect means I can now shop from home (online) and always get clothes that fit perfectly?
Does it mean that somehow I will not even have to try clothes on anymore in the shop?

Will it mean that I will have to spend less time shopping?? That'd be awesome. I hate shopping.

Re:Plug-in

[Chrisq]

Any chance of a plug-in that will make the screen flash red with text that says, "FAT CHICKS SHOULD NOT WEAR TIGHT JEANS!" when appriate?

Or another one that when a toned hot chick checks the fit the screen flashes, "NOT TIGHT ENOUGH!"

I don't know are microsoft coding it?

NOMO has provided 3d measured jeans for over 2 yrs

[Mokki]

"NOMO grew out of a practical need. The better half of a co-founder kept complaining that she could not find well-fitting jeans from any store."

http://www.nomojeans.com/nomo/how_nomo_works

For moderate to thin this will work well...

[Anonymous Coward]

.... but for the rest it will only lead to further problems. Those who are not the expected average height and weight will find this to be rather depressing. Why? Simple, in the same way a scale does. For as long as Ads idolize moderate to thin people as the perfect look, clothing manufacturers will continue to design to that market. So if you don't fit the average, or society expected, you feel rejected and dejected.

The doctors office follows a height to weight ratio to determine if you're obese. At my most fit shape and size ever I was deemed obese. I was no obese. Some doctor looked at a chart and never once looked up at me to see I was in the best shape of my life. I had a flat stomach, an elegantly muscular frame that showed cut but not sharp cut muscles, and I was healthy as ever. According to the chart, based on my height, I was 10lbs over the chart's deem correct weight. The doc said, lose weight, you're obese. I was anything but obese, and went home feeling mortified that for all my efforts to maintain good health, stay slim, and here a medical professional said I was obese. This happens with health insurance also. If your height to weight ratio doesn't fit the chart, your denied extra coverage, all other facts are ignored.

So this leads me to look a some game system to tell me what I already know, if I'm shopping in that store, either I know I'll find something that fit and I probably won't like the way it looks, or I won't because the system will tell be that my body shape is not equivalent to the stock available. Either way, it will be a hit to the self-esteem. And if you do fit most items, it's because this is the society accepted body shape that manufacturers have marketed too.

Just like in the good old times, ...

[zapyon]

in the 20th century, when they hyped x-ray scanners for fitting shoes in shoe shops. And probably just as healthy. Have fun!

Which will then be defeated by ...

[damn_registrars]

... total lack of QC on the part of the manufacturers. A while ago I bought two (allegedly) identical pairs of jeans from the same manufacturer and found they were anything but identical. They were the same cut, same waist, same length. Only difference was the color.

Then I got home and found they were made on different continents. One pair fit pretty close to what the label said (though not exactly the same as the last pair of the same), the other fell right off me. The second pair wasn't even remotely close and I have to wear a belt any time I put them on.

I for one...

[Anonymous Coward]

As a nerd with poor fashion sense, I for one welcome our new robot fashion overlords.

Huh?

[JustAnotherIdiot]

While body measuring systems aren't new, using the Xbox Kinect is a much more affordable solution.

I wasn't aware a tape measure was that expensive.

Re:Huh?

[lostfayth]

Tape measures are expensive, minimum wage is somewhere between $20-30k/year. That cost increases quickly as you add locations or expand to a larger space, and require more expensive humans to operate these seemingly inexpensive tape measures. Now throw in the cost of management, hr, benefits, and so on.

The same $20-30k could see these deployed across a chain of stores. Turnover is limited to devices which break down and can be replaced for less than $200. There are fewer teenagers being irresponsible on the job or pissing off customers, and less need for management to play the role of babysitter.

It probably has its drawbacks, but cost is not one of them.

Re:Huh?

[JustAnotherIdiot]

Tape measures are expensive

Bullshit.

Re:Huh?

[JustAnotherIdiot]

Oh wait, never mind, I got caught up on that first bit. IGNORE ME.

But do they make me look fat?

[coldsalmon]

If only I had a machine that could answer that question...

Re:But do they make me look fat?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure the software engineer already has that method programmed:

public boolean hasMuffinTop(Person possiblyTooFatForThoseJeans){
    if (possiblyTooFatForThoseJeans instanceof Muffin)
        return true;
    else
        return false;
}

(On a side note, the Captcha for this post was "bloating.")

Muffin-Top Algorithm

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm assuming the device uses a simple algorithm to see you you are too fat:

public boolean isTooFat (Person possiblyFat){
    if (possiblyFat instanceof Muffin)
        return true;
    else
        return false;
}

(On an side note, the Captcha for this post was "bloating.")

The Kinect is Awesome!

[elabs]

As a developer of apps that use Kinect For Windows, I am frequently amazed at the creativity of the community in using this versatile devices to solve problems. I can't wait for the Kinect 2 and I hope it brings finger tracking, higher resolution video and most importantly, reduces lag. If it can do those things we will have another wave of applications that use it.

10% off and a Courtesey Grope by the TSA!

[Anonymous Coward]

And if you buy one shoe you'll get the other one for free!