Man Orders TV On Amazon, Gets Shipped Assault Rifle

First time accepted submitter InfernoApple writes "Seth Horvitz, a Northeast D.C. resident, thought he had ordered a new high-definition television a few days ago through Amazon.com from a third-party merchant. When the package arrived yesterday, however, Horvitz opened the oddly shaped box to find something completely different. Instead of the flat-panel TV he had bought to enjoy with his wife, who is pregnant, Horvitz opened the long packaging to discover a Sig Sauer SIG716, a high-caliber, semi-automatic assault rifle capable of mowing down, well, just about anything."

Comments

Sounds like win-win to me!

[PrescriptionWarning]

He obviously was buying the TV so that he could hoist it a few stories above the ground and kill whatever poor sucker stood under it when it drops. Amazon just knew him so well from his previous purchases that he'd rather just have a rifle!

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[PrescriptionWarning]

I could be wrong, but I think it may be illegal for someone in D.C. to own such guns, so he likely didn't want to take that chance on making a bit o' cash.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[sigxcpu]

Besides, if someone gives you a rifle and you can't get yourself a brand new TV on your own, maybe you don't deserve one.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[Mr. Esterhouse]

I'm pretty sure you can own semi-autos in DC. People get this confused a lot. A semi automatic gun is not an assault rifle, no matter how it looks. An assault rifle is a gun that fires more than one bullet with one pull of the trigger, i.e, machine guns. There may be a mag limit in D.C which would make it illegal if it shipped with a 30 Rd magazine. However, if he kept the gun and they found out he would have problems because guns, shipped via mail, need to be shipped to a FFL licensed dealer.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[bashibazouk]

It used to be before assault weapon bans became popular. Now semi and fully automatic versions of the same base gun are different enough that it's now a difficult complex modification...

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[CanHasDIY]

Your laws are funny in the USA. Isn't that a simple mechanical modification to make ?

Mechanical modification, yes.

Simple? Far from it.

Also, highly illegal.

It would be far cheaper, easier, and safer to just install one of these.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[Mr. Esterhouse]

Nope, you can own fully automatic weapons if your state allows it. All fully automatic weapons purchased must be from 1986 or older. You have to fill out forms, then have multiple background checks, pay a tax stamp of $200 I believe. Wait six months and order your gun. Might I add that your are looking anywhere from $5000 to $50,000 for a full auto.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[BlackSnake112]

I didn't read if there was ammo to go with the rifle. No ammo the rifle is not much better then a baseball bat or golf club. Both of which are legal to have in DC and make a better club then the rifle does.

According to what I read UPS screwed up the labeling. UPS said that the label fell off his TV box. The TV label was but on the rifle box. Sounds really odd to me.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[bugs2squash]

I don't understand; from the tone of your comment you would seem to claim to be knowledgeable about guns, from which I infer that you perhaps have an interest in guns and perhaps are "pro-gun", but your signature message seems to indicate that you disapprove of this particular manufacturer. Would you have preferred he got the TV instead ?

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[SomePgmr]

I'm not sure what the DC one did, but the one in Chicago just got rid of the handgun ban. Chicago and Cook County still have very strict gun ban codes that make AR's illegal unless your local municipality has specifically preempted the county "Assault Weapon Ban". Other rifles are illegal too, and it doesn't have much to do with how they operate. Weird criteria like, "Hand guard that goes around the barrel" and "designed to look like a military rifle" get passed out on a sheet by FFL's when you buy a lower receiver in a nearby county, as a warning.

The joke of all this is that nobody can tell you, universally, what an assault weapon is. It used to have a strict ATF definition, but now it's just a scary political phrase that changes to suit whatever legislation someone is trying to pass.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[jmorris42]

> Wouldn't the somewhat recent SCOTUS ruling for citizens to own guns in DC, kind of put this to rest as to gun ownership in the city?

Not exactly. When the SCOTUS makes a ruling progressives like, especially if it legislates a whole new legal superstructure from the bench they could never dream of enacting through the legislative procress, then the SUPREME COURT has spoken. The ruling may as well be delivered on engraved stone tablets brought forth by Moses himself (ok, scratch the heeb.. don't like those anymore, brought forth by the Lightworker himself) and are unquestionable. To even ask questions is to bring your patriotism into question instead.

On the other hand, when it is a ruling they don't like, not so much. DC has pretty much ignored the Heller decision. Last I heard there is still no licensed dealer in the city and it is still illegal to import one from elsewhere. So good luck exercising your newly reinstated 2nd Amendment RTKBA and it won't change until we get a different Senate and POTUS.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[mr1911]

Actually an assault rifle has very strict legal definitions

Citation needed. "Assault rifle" is a term made up by politicians and adopted by the media because it sounds threatening.

The expired Assault Weapons Ban may be what you are referring to as defining the term, but that also included arbitrary and cosmetic features as well. A bayonet lug could mean the difference between owning an "assault rifle" or just a rifle.

Magazines are completely separate things. How is it that if I have 100 rounds ready to fire in 10 round magazines makes me the owner of a sporting rifle, but having 100 rounds ready to fire from 25 round magazines make me in possession of an "assault rifle" or having 100 rounds ready to fire from a drum makes me a terrorist?

Which orifice did you pull 24" from? Maybe you mean 16" which is where a rifle becomes a NFA firearm?

The OP was stating the definitions used in various bans or restrictions of "assault rifles" are absurd, and you proved his point. The only difference between an "assault rifle" or a rifle is the intent of the person holding it.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[Frederico Camara]

But in DC it is illegal and near impossible to get one. And he did....

No sir, we don't have assault rifles here, try the TV Department.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[ZeroSumHappiness]

Unfortunately both you and GP are wrong on a number of points.

First, "assault rifle" is a military term with a fairly widely accepted definition. Skipping a bunch of parts but the weapon should be select-fire with full-auto or burst modes and should be of intermediate caliber. (Intermediate caliber is again a fuzzy definition but it is more powerful than sidearm and less powerful than battle...)

Second, the term the GP was looking for is "assault weapon" which is a legal term defined in assault weapons ban laws. The federal AWB law had a strict definition that requires the weapon to be semi-automatic in all cases (fully automatic weapons were already covered by the '34 and '86 laws) and is mostly defined by cosmetic features.

Altogether, though, you both have demonstrated quite well one part of why AWB laws have been historically braindead -- they rely upon misinformation and misunderstanding of the situation to try to reach a political victory instead of a practical solution.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[shutdown -p now]

Actually an assault rifle has very strict legal definitions, and ARs and AKs, even semi-auto with no select-fire, are absolutely assault rifles.

You're confusing "assault weapon" with "assault rifle". "Assault rifle" is a meaningful term historically used to describe fully automatic firearms firing an intermediate cartridge (i.e. stronger than pistol cartridges, but weaker than a full-sized rifle cartridge like .308).

"Assault weapon" is a purely legal term that designates a random concoction of features that can be summed up more or less as "looks scary" (pistol grips, barrel shrouds etc) - about the only meaningful part there is the magazine size restriction. On federal level this no longer exists since AWB expired. Some states retain it, but their definitions vary.

The primary distinctions are high capacity magazines and 24" barrels.

24" barrel length? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. That's actually very long (WW2-era rifles were slightly shorter).

The actual limit is 16" for barrel length - anything shorter makes it a "short-barreled rifle", which is more stringently regulated by ATF. It does not, however, make it an "assault weapon"

Even weirder, I know that my AK needed no less than 9 American made parts to be considered a "US legal assault rifle" (the freaking furniture counts!).

Again you've heard something but you didn't get it right. An AK, for starters, needs to be semi-auto to be legal for civilian ownership, unless it was imported into the country before 1986 (and if it were, you need to have a license to possess a full auto weapon, and pay a $200 fee to ATF every time it changes hands - and in that case the parts don't matter). The whole story about the part count enters into play when importing a foreign made weapon into US. Currently, US only permits weapons to be imported that are designed for "sporting purposes" - for example, hunting rifles. So e.g. an all-Russian Saiga, which is basically a semi-auto AK in "less scary" furniture (no pistol grip) and a 10rd mag, designed for hunters, is a "sporting rifle".

On the other hand, a proper AK cannot be imported, even if it's converted to semi-auto. You could seemingly import a Saiga, and then convert it to an AK lookalike inside US, but the law treats it the same as violation of import restrictions. However, ATF considers any gun "American made" if it has 10 or less parts in it that are not made in USA - including, yes, things like some furniture, and parts of magazines. So people import Saigas, and make just enough details in US to convert them to AK to get down to that "10 foreign parts max" limit.

It is also perfectly legal to just manufacture a (semi-auto) AK clone entirely in US and not bother with the parts. Some companies do just that. Problem is, a well-made American AK clone is expensive - compared to the much cheaper but still quality Russian Saigas - and cheaply made American AKs that can compete with imports on price are crap. So imports are more popular.

Note also that all this applies to any imported weapon, not just AK. For example, the Czech Vz 58 is also imported in "sporter" configuration and then remade into the original shape with US-made parts. Other European companies just open manufacturing facilities in US, like SIG did (it is a Swiss company).

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[kryliss]

Here is the Journalists' Guide to Assault Weapons... Pretty informative. (SFW)

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7gxz7lCn41qm1o5to1_500.jpg

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[CanHasDIY]

After watching the video of how the Slidefire works I would have to imagine it will be made illegal or put under the same restrictions as any automatic weapon within a few years. It's really just another way to arrive at an automatic rifle and get around the ban on buying them.

The Slidefire and similar stocks have been around for a few years now, but I haven't found any evidence that their legality has been brought into question yet (won't stop the busy-bodies from trying, I know...).

As for making it illegal, well... might as well criminalize physics.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[modecx]

Actually, you've got it backwards. NATO ammo in a .308 chamber is fine, and .308 in a NATO chambered gun is usually OK too. The max pressure on .308 Win is slightly higher than 7.62x51, enough that some auto-loading NATO guns can be over-gassed and run too hard if shot with .308 Win. It's something like 58,000 PSI for NATO and 62,000 for commercial. Also, commercial ammo often uses slower burning powders designed to get higher velocity out of bolt action hunting rifles with longer barrels, further increasing the pressure at the barrel tap on the autoloader.

However, the real significant difference between the two lies in the chamber, and more specifically the headspace. Dimensionally, the unfired cases are exactly the same on the outside. The .308 chamber is tighter, and like you noted, the brass is generally thinner. This is because with the tight chamber, the brass doesn't expand so much. The shoulder/neck on the NATO chamber is a bit different. The NATO no-go gauge is about 10-13 thou longer in the shoulder area. The reasons for this are to make more room for mud, blood and guts between the cartridge and the chamber, so to improve reliability. Consequently the brass is usually made from a thicker, but more annealed (softer) alloy which better expands to fill the gap (this is also why they keep the NATO ammo pressure slightly lower). As an aside, that feature leads to more erratic muzzle velocities, making guns with the .308 chamber more accurate, all other things being equal.

So, if you're running a max pressure commercial cartridge in a NATO chambered gun, you can possibly end up with case-neck separations, stuck brass, damaged extractors, blown-up rifles, etc. But most ammo doesn't quite push the envelope that far, so it would be acceptable to do interchange the two in an emergency.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[TigerPlish]

Yes...and that's the point. It's really nothing special. Just a standard semi-automatic rifle (not much different than any other varmint rifle).

Not quite. The 715 is chambered in 7.62 NATO, not the 5.56 NATO the normal AR rifle is chambered for.

A short history lesson:

The original AR-10 rifle was indeed 7.62. This is very similar and almost interchangeable with .308 Winchester. This isn't a plinking or varmint round. This is a blow-your-head-off-at-800-yards man killer. This is what the M14 chambered. This is what the M40 sniper rifle chambers.. and countless civilian rifles as well.

Somewhere down the line, the round was dropped to 5.56mm. Some desk jockey thought it was better to carry many more lighter, smaller bullets that don't hit nearly as hard as a heavier, larger bullet.

So no. This isn't your typical assault rifle. The 716 is more properly called a battle rifle. Like an M14 or FAL or M1 Garand, or a '03 Springfield, or a '98 Mauser.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[modecx]

There is no 'right to privacy' in the Constitution

Oh, I wouldn't be so quick to declare that:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

The way I see it, they decided it would be impractical, if not impossible to list every possible right that needed protection (and to what degree), but they wanted to guard freedom in a general sense, including the freedom of a person to be free from all substantial arbitrary impositions by the government.

Just because the founders didn't choose to explicitly enumerate that right, that doesn't mean that they believed the government should be able to arbitrarily limit your choice of medical procedures, etc. Without a measure of privacy (which they sometimes took extraordinary measures to achieve), they would have never been able to mount a revolution, from that continuum, I'm pretty sure they would have been fond that ideal.

Re:Sounds like win-win to me!

[NoNonAlphaCharsHere]

In the first place, I acknowledge that you (jmorris42) using "Democrat delenda est" ("Democrat must be destroyed") as your sig self-identifies you as a reactionary who is as amenable to reason and rational discourse as a cornered wolverine, but hey, it's my breath to waste.

I'm surprised. I would have thought you'd have led with Brown v. Board of Education as your poster child for "bad bad liberal bad socialist bad bad judicial activism - only bad bad liberals and bad bad socialists do it"; but then, I don't suppose you have that much intellectual honesty. So, as you suggest, we'll take Roe v. Wade as "Data Point 1". You say:

There is no 'right to privacy' in the Constitution. How ever much we might like that idea, the only way for it to be there is to add an amendment because right now it just ain't there.

Actually, as the 9th Amendment states:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

In other words, It doesn't "have to be there" (enumerated) to exist. That would be YOU, being 100% completely wrong. Simply because "privacy" (whatever that might mean) is not explicitly stated as a (specific, named) Right under the Constitution, does not mean that it does not exist, nor should it be disparaged simply because it is not named by name. That's what the 9th Amendment says. Get it? Get it? It's the same kind of "just because we didn't mention it by name..." language as used in the 10th Amendment. I won't go into the 14th Amendment "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States" part of the argument because I know how much the "Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned." part enrages the "hold my breath until I turn blue" Congressional conservative crowd. Besides, that's Reconstruction, not actual Bill of Rights. Point is, you're wrong: it don't have to be stated, and it don't need an Amendment for "privacy" (non-interference by government in people's private lives) to exist and be enforceable.

What really makes me laugh is how worked up conservatives get about Roe, especially when the (stated) gist of the Court's decision was "It's none of the Government's goddamn business, let the individual person decide". To me, it's the height of hypocrisy (and howlingly funny) how loudly conservatives want the Government to stay out of everybody's business, except when they want the Government to dictate things (usually legislated morality) they (the conservatives) want to shove down everybody's throat. It's always different when the shoe is on the other foot.

On to Citizen's United and Heller.

In the first place, I'll let you have Heller, simply because I know (and acknowledge as being a Good Thing) that the 2nd Amendment (and the Constitution) in general, pretty much explicitly state that the government of this country (which was founded on armed revolution) shall rule at the consent of an armed populace. Again, I think that's a Good Thing. I like to reserve that right on principle, besides, the way things are going, I might have to exercise it. Besides, just because YOU brought it up doesn't mean I have to champion it. If Heller makes you thump your chest in victory, you go right ahead.

Citizen's United

...the court did nothing more than say, "yup the 1st and 2nd Amendments still say exactly when they said and were understood to have meant when written.'

Um, no. It (Citizen's) goes a damn sight farther than that. In the first place, it declares that MONEY is SPEECH. Which it ain't. Obviously.

Oblig.

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of TV package contained high-powered assault rifle.

Would not buy again.

No Maam

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

It's just a misunderstanding, officer. I ordered an issue of Big'uns!

Pregnant?

[Anonymous Coward]

How is his wife's pregnancy relevant?

Re:Pregnant?

[loufoque]

A pregnant woman is less likely to have fun with an assault rifle

Re:Pregnant?

[Samantha Wright]

The mere mention of violence is obviously a threat to the frail constitutions of women, much less those with child. Didn't you learn anything in finishing school? Why, I think I might faint just from reading the summary!

Re:Pregnant?

[jbeaupre]

Frail? Hell! I was scared shitless every time my pregnant wife picked up scissors. Anything sharper than a butter knife was an excuse to go to the store.

An assault rifle in the house would have meant waking up to a loud bang in the middle of the night and bloody "can I sleep on your face" cat entrails blasted across the room. If I was lucky.

Re:Pregnant?

[BlueStrat]

A pregnant woman is less likely to have fun with an assault rifle

Not necessarily true.

A pregnant woman obviously likes to bang.

Thanks, I'll be here all week.

Please tip the burgers, and try the waitresses.

Strat

Re:Pregnant?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

A pregnant woman is less likely to have fun with an assault rifle

Depends on which way her mood swings.

His bumper sticker

[freeze128]

"Yesterday, I got a gun for my wife." "Pretty good trade, don't you think?"

Interesting

[TonyAldo]

I want to know what kind of retailer carries HDTVs and assault rifles? Maybe Best Buy should adopt this idea, TVs, guns and chicken!

Re:Interesting

[The Moof]

I want to know what kind of retailer carries HDTVs and assault rifles?

Wal-Mart.

Re:Interesting

[rwise2112]

He should have read the fine print - "product may not appear exactly as shown"

Re:Interesting

[berashith]

of course you couldnt find anything under SIG716. They have it hidden as a "TV" , but onl as a secret for those in the know. When you look into the specs for the tv, and it doesnt have HDMI and optical outs, but instead has specs like these, beware... it probably isnt a TV.
Caliber 7.62 X 51 mm NATO
    Overall Length 37.4 in
    Trigger Type MIL-SPEC
    Trigger Weight 7.6 lbs
    Barrel Length 16.0 in
    Rifling 1 in 10"
    Number of grooves 6
    Weight w/out Mag 9.3 lbs
    Mag Capacity 20 Rounds
    Mag Type Magpul PMAG
    Accessory Rail Yes
    Features Short stroke pushrod operating system with 4 position gas valve

Sweet!

[Quiet_Desperation]

Somewhere, deep in the desert, a hidden meth lab got a nice new TV.

Re:So...

[Quiet_Desperation]

Dear Secret Service, I do not know the above poster. We just hang out here.

Re:anti-gun hyperbole

[blueturffan]

i defy anyone to "mow down" anything with a semiautomatic rifle. get a grip

You misunderstood. According to the summary, the weapon is capable of mowing down pretty much anything all by itself. This is similar to news reporting of SUVs causing horrible accidents.

Cars don't cause accidents. Guns don't kill people. IDEs don't write bugs.

Not an assault rifle

[j. andrew rogers]

The SIG716 is not an "assault rifle" and you won't be "mowing" anything down with it. It is a conventional semi-automatic rifle that can be legally owned just about everywhere. Also, it is in a large caliber that makes it better suited for hunting than for rapid fire.

If the guy had been shipped a functionally equivalent hunting rifle with a classic wood stock there would not be as many ninnies getting the vapors over it. Unless Amazon has never made a shipping error before, this is a non-story.

Re:Not an assault rifle

[jafiwam]

Not arresting the guy is actually a quite remarkable exception. Normally he'd be busted and added to the knotches on the belt of the DA representing convictions of criminals (not to be confused with ordinary people just caught up in random events), plus, they'd shoot his dog.

Re:Not an assault rifle

[icebrain]

Who says anyone is "spraying and praying" all over? One shot is one shot, and neither the bullet nor the game animal cares what mechanism cycles the next round into the chamber. Lots of people (myself included) hunt with semiautos, not out of some crazy "must shoot everything in sight" urge, or a need to make up for poor shooting skills, but rather just because we already have one, it works fine, and there's no sense buying another rifle just to hunt.

The AR-10/AR-15 family is actually quite well-suited to hunting use (provided appropriate ammunition is used for the desired game), if you put aside asinine drivel about "spraying lead everywhere". Here's why:

Synthetic stocks are less susceptible to warping due to humidity and temperature changes.

Adjustable stocks (as commonly found on these rifles) make them usable by a wide range of ages and body types. My 6'3" friend and his 5'1" wife can easily use the same rifle to hunt, despite the large disparity in size.

The gas operation and large buffer tube reduce felt recoil, making it more comfortable for small or new shooters.

The placement and operation of the safety mean that it can be operated easily while already sighted on a target, unlike many bolt-action rifles where the safety is high on the receiver, or even on the back of the bolt. The safety can also be left engaged while loading and unloading, helping reduce the chances of accidental firing.

The detachable magazine makes loading and unloading much easier and reduces the chance of dropping cartridges while fumbling with the floorplate of a fixed magazine, or repeatedly cycling rounds through the action. Not only does this improve safety during these evolutions, but people are also more likely to follow safety rules like unloading when crossing ditches or fences, or climing into/out of tree stands.

Re:really???

[Nadaka]

In this case it is 7.62x51, roughly identical to the .308 Winchester.

That is legal for deer hunting in all 50 states, unlike the weaksauce 5.56x45 used in actual assault rifles.

So he didn't actually get an assault rifle, semi-auto hunting rifle that happened to be painted black, had an adjustable stock for comfort and rails for attaching a scope, bipod and other accessories.

Re:really???

[PortHaven]

For those unaware, an assault rifle is a firearm capable of firing in a fully automatic mode, as opposed to semi-automatic or single-action. Furthermore, the most common round used in assault rifles is a pittance, it is a .22 caliber bullet (granted with a lot more power and better aerodynamics than the .22 LR you shoot in Boy Scouts). But even with all that it is considered pitiful, not much more than a varmint round.

Here in Pennsylvania it is illegal to hunt dear with a .223 caliber because it is not considered powerful enough to ensure a clean kill. In fact, those evil high caliber rounds are often half the size of a hunting cartridge.

So where does the term "high power" stem from? Not the cartridge itself. But the capacity of the firearm. Essentially, you had a 45 caliber semi-automatic designed by the Revered John Moses Browning. This held about 8 rounds. They're big short fat stubby rounds. 8 rounds of firepower was two more than the average revolver. The Revered than creating the Browning Hi-Power using a much smaller 9mm round. The result was a capacity of 15-19 rounds. Hence hi-power simply mean greater capacity, often related to small, weaker, less powerful bullets.

In fact, the current .223 round used in M16/M4/AR15 (semi-automatic version) is essentially considered the smallest, weakest, bare minimum rifle round that can ensure a reasonable expectation of success. Compared to what gramps used in WWII or worse, WWI, it's laughable - unless you're shot by one of course.

We should BAN ASSULT TV's

[uslurper]

^^^

Meanwhile, in Texas...

[macwhizkid]

A border patrol vigilante is busy trying to figure out how to load a magazine clip into his assault rifle flatscreen.

Re:really???

[Snotnose]

Came to post this. The article throws about "hi power", "mows down about anything", without ever specifying the caliber. 7.62x51 (not x56) is a standard NATO round, about 10% less powerful than a 30.06.

And as someone above said, the gun is probably worth twice what the TV he ordered is.

Re:really???

[RsG]

What's a "high-caliber" assault rifle?

A contradiction in terms.

An assault rifle is A) fully automatic (with a fire selector that includes either full auto or burst) and B) fires an intermediate rifle cartridge, meaning not high calibre.

If it's high calibre, but still a military rifle, it's a battle rifle. If it's intermediate calibre, but limited to semi-automatic fire, it's just a semi-auto rifle.

You can't legally buy assault rifles, or select fire battle rifles for that matter, if you're a civilian living in a first world nation. Doesn't matter what you might see in the news that says otherwise, go try it at your local gun store and see how far you get. If it's got automatic fire capability, it's a military weapon belonging in the hands of soldiers, and cannot be owned by your local gun nut anymore than he can own a live grenade.

Referring to anything that looks remotely dangerous as either an assault rifle or machine gun is a good indicator that the person doing the labelling knows fuck all about the subject at hand. "Assault style rifle", which is the weasel word term for weapons like the one in TFA, is about the same thing as a car that looks like a racecar, but drives like a sedan; legal, fancy looking, but boring under the hood.

(Disclaimer: I am Canadian. The second amendment down south is none of my business either way. I own no guns. I am firmly in the "guns belong in the hands of professionals" category. Anyone busting out the "sure, that's what an NRA drone wants you to think" in response to my post presumably didn't read the post script.)

Re:So...

[JustOK]

Just one vote.

Wat

[Snodgrass]

Is that article originally from the Onion?

Geez, they're just lucky that they're still alive. That very big gun, capable of mowing down, well...just about anything, could have leapt out that box and killed her unborn child!

I mean, unloaded guns, still in packaging, have killed untold numbers of unsuspecting hipsters.

How dangerous, really?

[Urban Garlic]

This story was on the local Washington DC NPR affiliate yesterday, and they did a much better job describing the problem -- it was quite obviously a UPS bungle, underneath the address sticker on the package, there was *another* address sticker, with the address of a gun shop in Maryland, which confirmed that they had indeed ordered this thing, and were waiting for it. Amazon doesn't appear to have done anything wrong in this case.

The part that I thought NPR did poorly was, both they and the guy who was the subject of the story kept going on about how dangerous the situation was, and I thought that was kind of over-blown. It was left on his porch for a while, which put it at risk for theft, but the gun was, as far as I can tell, not loaded, and there was no suitable ammunition anywhere around. So, it seems to me that, practically speaking, it was no more or less dangerous than a similarly-sized shovel or crowbar, independently of the presence of pregnant women and other vulnerable people.

When someone shows up with the right ammo, *then* it's dangerous. But not before.

Re:How dangerous, really?

[krotkruton]

As soon as I saw "pregnant" wife, my sensationalism alarms went off. I get that they don't have a gun safe, but I'm pretty sure the fetus won't be able to do much. Then I see all the stuff about Amazon and how he ordered a TV, and I'm wondering what Amazon has to do with it. Since when did Amazon start selling assault rifles and shipping them through the mail? Oh wait, they don't. Amazon has nothing to do with the story, but it sure sounds a lot better when you can imagine ordering a new toy for your kids only to have them open up a "Bag O' Glass" because Amazon messed up the order.

Re:Top ten Obama lies about Romney

[jbeaupre]

What does a Canadian band have to do with Obama and Romney?

Shipping error

[ProfBooty]

It was, NPR reported that his address label was stuck on top of one for the gun shop it was intended to go to. Pretty much every one of the articles on this story also neglects to state that you can't have firearms shipped to your house unless you have an FFL.. You have to go pick it up at a gun store and go through a background check.

Re:really???

[jafiwam]

You have this exactly opposite. Like all gun grabbers, your facts are based on hearsay and idiot web blogs. There is a dictionary definition of assault rifle, and it includes full auto or burst mode. Full auto guns come in a variety of types, full auto only box fed or belt fed is a machine gun. Semi-automatic box fed is not a machine gun, shoulder fired full auto is not a machine gun either. The defunct ban attempted to ban appearances only, pistol grip, box magazine, rails, collapsible stock, etc. and you have swallowed it all hook line and sinker.

the gun was supposed to be shipped to a gun shop

[ProfBooty]

NPR reported that the label under this guys address is for a gun store in PA. This is really poor reporting. The washington post version lacks this detail as well, as well as any reporting that you can't ship firearms to a persons home unless they have a FFL.

WTB Better Summary

[dywolf]

Preferably one written by someone at least knowledgeable about guns. It's neither high caliber, nor capable of "mowing down just about anything".

It's gas-powered semi-automatic: One trigger pull, one round.

It's 7.62x51mm NATO, which is nearly (but not exactly) identical the .308 Winchester it's based on. It could be potentially classed as high-power (the .308 being a hunting round), but it is not high caliber.

It features the so-called "scary assault rifle look", particularly since it uses the popular modular rail mounting for components and accessories using with a common attachment design. But then there is no law that all rifles must look like grandpappy's squirrel gun, or be "not scary looking".

As for "mowing down", that's hyperbole. Any weapon is capable of such a thing if misused, be it a knife, gun, car, or simple bottle of Chlorine gas from your local pool.

Amazon Review: Some Big Screen HDTV

[akerasi]

Well, I bought one of these, and let's just say I was... surprised at what I received. It didn't have Netflix on it, nor did it connect to my cable line or my Roku box. When I called the support number, they told me to make it work, I needed to load it with ammunition and depress the button, which they referred to as a "trigger".

The bass was really loud; I thought I blew the speakers, but when I tried again, it was still as loud. It was at that point that I noticed the large, gaping holes in my wall. Within a few minutes, police had arrived at my house, to ask if anything was wrong. I informed them that my television was malfunctioning, and they seemed to decide I was a lunatic and drove away. When I tried to RMA it, the man on the other end of the support line laughed at me and hung up.

Would not buy again.

Re:really???

[PortHaven]

The media term is "assault weapon" and the reason they usually don't use "assault rifle" is because the former has no real definition, where as the latter is a specific designation type and MUST feature an automated mode of fire. And I believe it is also defined as an individual firearm (as opposed to a squad manned fully automatic rifle, oft referred to as a machine gun)

Re:really???

[Z34107]

You and a lot of posters are confusing "assault rifle" with "assault weapon", a term invented by the Brady Campaign to mean "scary-looking gun."

An assault rifle is simply a fully automatic, low-caliber rifle. An assault weapon, on the other hand, was legally defined as a gun with too much black plastic (pistol grip, barrel shroud, folding stock, others.)

He didn't pass the background check

[cvtan]

for a TV, so they sent him a rifle.

unless it can go full auto...

[night_flyer]

... it ain't an ASSAULT RIFLE!

Why mention Amazon?

[sgunhouse]

If you read TFA, it looks like it was a mistake by UPS, so why even mention Amazon? (And Amazon doesn't allow listing of guns anyway.) The article says the box was addressed to a gun dealer in PA ... not an error by Amazon or the vendor, but by the shipper.

Though I do wonder what was in the other box. The photo shows a big shipping box with the rifle box on top of it, there's still another box in the shipping box ...

Re:really???

[jmorris42]

> I bet everybody who was there was sufficiently impressed.

I dunno. That was almost a worst case scenario and it managed to score 13 and wound a lot more. If the idiot had used a more reliable weapon (ditch the hundred round drum) he could have got a few more. But remember he also built bombs which were supposed to create a distraction and only failed because of pure luck.

Imagine instead if the guy had been a little more rational (just not rational enough to realize how stupid the whole going postal thing is) and realized the bombs were far more lethal than the gun. Now imagine him coming in through that emergency exit with a dozen bombs. Toss some incendaries and smoke into the exits to cause the exit stampede to bottle up then lob fragmentations into the dense crowd. Use a pair (with sensible clips to avoid jams) of pistols to nail anyone coming toward him (easy targets) while continuing to toss various nasty stuff. Lead pipe cinch he would have upped his score with that plan. And this guy had some education, remember that. A chemical attack would have been within his ability. WWI tech poision gas should not have posed a problem for someone with his knowledge.

He went with the guns because he bought into the popular mythology.

This story seems to be BS!

[Paracelcus]

Amazon DOES NOT SELL FIREARMS!
YOU CANNOT BUY FIREARMS THROUGH THE MAIL!

IF THIS BULLSHIT IS TRUE MANY FEDERAL LAWS WERE BROKEN!

This is a classic political BS story that would never have appeared if it was not in the wake of mass murders involving firearms!

Re:Top ten Obama lies about Romney

[Anonymous Coward]

No, no, wait, mods! This is clearly on-topic! Just look:

1. This person wanted to buy a TV for his wife, but instead got a high-powered semi-automatic rifle. See where I'm going with this? He'll kill his wife with the gun by accident!

2. This sort of shipping mishap must have been done by someone so inexperienced with the English language to mess up an order that badly. It can be assumed, therefore, that this job was outsourced from whatever third-party reseller being used in this case. The chief of said company must have made that decision.

3. This is a very embarrassing gaffe, overseas or not.

4. Amazon's been under attack recently by states demanding they collect sales taxes. And the TV that was supposed to be delivered would've been quite heavy. Combine those together, and the middle class will be crushed, and there's taxes!

5. Whoever did this will need to be hunted down and fired. Unfortunately, this will result in a McCarthy-esque witch hunt in the company until everyone responsible has been found.

6. Ownership of such a gun may not be a crime in DC, but we still need to figure out where it came from; it may be a felony in whatever country this was shipped from.

7. The customer couldn't abort the shipment before it got to him. Or rather, he had no reason it would need to be. But, he certainly wouldn't abort the order if he could use the gun to defend someone being raped.

8. Most likely, this entire affair was due to some penny-pinching MBA, most likely one from a prep school where they have no real concept of how the real world works. As a result, the outsourcing issue mentioned above, ultimately leading to this erroneous shipment.

9. The company probably wants to keep this a secret. See the part about it being a major gaffe.

10. This is obviously racist, too. I mean, would they accidentally ship semi-automatic rifles to BLACK PEOPLE?!? No. This was shipped to a white guy due to racial fears.

See? It all ties in to the article at hand. This certainly wasn't some political nutjob vomiting up a copy-and-paste checklist in the desperate, DESPERATE hope that someone, ANYONE will care about what he's saying.

Amazon?

[flimflammer]

FTA:

UPDATE, 10:45 a.m.: Ty Rogers, an Amazon spokesman, declined to say what the company is doing to remedy the situation.

Why should Amazon have to do anything in the first place? This was a shipping error by UPS and has nothing to do with Amazon. Amazon wasn't even the one directly selling the TV, they just listed the page for one of their third party sellers. UPS should be the company to remedy the issue by getting the man his TV. I suspect the person the gun was intended for is eager to get his $2500 gun opposed to the $400 TV he likely got anyway.