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Man Orders TV On Amazon, Gets Shipped Assault Rifle
First time accepted submitter InfernoApple writes "Seth Horvitz, a Northeast D.C. resident, thought he had ordered a new high-definition television a few days ago through Amazon.com from a third-party merchant. When the package arrived yesterday, however, Horvitz opened the oddly shaped box to find something completely different. Instead of the flat-panel TV he had bought to enjoy with his wife, who is pregnant, Horvitz opened the long packaging to discover a Sig Sauer SIG716, a high-caliber, semi-automatic assault rifle capable of mowing down, well, just about anything."
He obviously was buying the TV so that he could hoist it a few stories above the ground and kill whatever poor sucker stood under it when it drops. Amazon just knew him so well from his previous purchases that he'd rather just have a rifle!
Instead of TV package contained high-powered assault rifle.
Would not buy again.
It's just a misunderstanding, officer. I ordered an issue of Big'uns!
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
How far is this man away from Congress?
---
How is his wife's pregnancy relevant?
"Yesterday, I got a gun for my wife." "Pretty good trade, don't you think?"
I'll take that over a TV any day of the week. Especially living in DC...
Karma: Bad
Obviously...
I want to know what kind of retailer carries HDTVs and assault rifles? Maybe Best Buy should adopt this idea, TVs, guns and chicken!
tonyaldo.com
Somewhere, deep in the desert, a hidden meth lab got a nice new TV.
...to shoot all the execs and writers that produce the shit that would have displayed on his tv.
Silence is a state of mime.
7.62 vs 5.56 probably. Not really "high-calibre."
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
i defy anyone to "mow down" anything with a semiautomatic rifle. get a grip
You misunderstood. According to the summary, the weapon is capable of mowing down pretty much anything all by itself. This is similar to news reporting of SUVs causing horrible accidents.
Cars don't cause accidents. Guns don't kill people. IDEs don't write bugs.
I suppose it is fatter than a .223, but it ain't no .50cal.
The SIG716 is not an "assault rifle" and you won't be "mowing" anything down with it. It is a conventional semi-automatic rifle that can be legally owned just about everywhere. Also, it is in a large caliber that makes it better suited for hunting than for rapid fire.
If the guy had been shipped a functionally equivalent hunting rifle with a classic wood stock there would not be as many ninnies getting the vapors over it. Unless Amazon has never made a shipping error before, this is a non-story.
In this case it is 7.62x51, roughly identical to the .308 Winchester.
That is legal for deer hunting in all 50 states, unlike the weaksauce 5.56x45 used in actual assault rifles.
So he didn't actually get an assault rifle, semi-auto hunting rifle that happened to be painted black, had an adjustable stock for comfort and rails for attaching a scope, bipod and other accessories.
Amazon doesn't sell firearms, as far as I can tell. I'm pretty sure they don't. The article is non-commital about whether the package was actually FROM Amazon. So, I think what happened here is that this dude ordered a TV for his wife, and in a totally unrelated incident, received a mis-shipped rifle. Of course, that's not as cute a story, so trim out a few details, leave a few false impressions, and Bob's your uncle.
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
I dunno, I might buy again.
Bobcats are bad ass.
For those unaware, an assault rifle is a firearm capable of firing in a fully automatic mode, as opposed to semi-automatic or single-action. Furthermore, the most common round used in assault rifles is a pittance, it is a .22 caliber bullet (granted with a lot more power and better aerodynamics than the .22 LR you shoot in Boy Scouts). But even with all that it is considered pitiful, not much more than a varmint round.
Here in Pennsylvania it is illegal to hunt dear with a .223 caliber because it is not considered powerful enough to ensure a clean kill. In fact, those evil high caliber rounds are often half the size of a hunting cartridge.
So where does the term "high power" stem from? Not the cartridge itself. But the capacity of the firearm. Essentially, you had a 45 caliber semi-automatic designed by the Revered John Moses Browning. This held about 8 rounds. They're big short fat stubby rounds. 8 rounds of firepower was two more than the average revolver. The Revered than creating the Browning Hi-Power using a much smaller 9mm round. The result was a capacity of 15-19 rounds. Hence hi-power simply mean greater capacity, often related to small, weaker, less powerful bullets.
In fact, the current .223 round used in M16/M4/AR15 (semi-automatic version) is essentially considered the smallest, weakest, bare minimum rifle round that can ensure a reasonable expectation of success. Compared to what gramps used in WWII or worse, WWI, it's laughable - unless you're shot by one of course.
^^^
oldhack: "Security is a waste of money until shit hits the fan. 5 minutes later, it becomes waste of money again. "
not to order assault rifles over the internet.
A border patrol vigilante is busy trying to figure out how to load a magazine clip into his assault rifle flatscreen.
Came to post this. The article throws about "hi power", "mows down about anything", without ever specifying the caliber. 7.62x51 (not x56) is a standard NATO round, about 10% less powerful than a 30.06.
And as someone above said, the gun is probably worth twice what the TV he ordered is.
Can someone tell me which make/model of TV he ordered and if it was cheaper than that 716?
I have a friend that owns the 516 (5.56 version of the gun instead of the 7.62) and it's a nice chunk of hardware...
It's not an Assault Rifle. Normally the terms don't matter, but in the case of weapons, the laws are VERY different when you change just one word. The Sig 716 is an Assault Weapon, not and Assault Rifle.
The term "assault weapon" is a United States legal term used to describe a variety of semi-automatic firearms that have certain features generally associated with military assault rifles. The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired on September 13, 2004, codified the definition of an assault weapon. It defined the rifle type of assault weapon as a semiautomatic firearm with the ability to accept a detachable magazine containing more than 10 rounds, and two or more of the following "Evil features":
Folding or telescoping stock
Primary pistol grip
Forward grip
Threaded barrel (for a muzzle brake or a suppressor, commonly called a silencer)
Barrel shroud
The National Firearms Act of 1934, Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 are the laws that affect Assault Rifles (all, I repeat ALL of which are select fire (burst) or fully automatic weapons)
So, in summary, the terms assault rifle and assault weapon are NOT interchangeable from a legal standpoint.
Secondly, that's a $2200 rifle, and the law is pretty specific about where you can deliver those things to (an FFL holder, and that's pretty much it). That's a pretty huge mistake to be made by UPS or whoever the shipping agent was
What's a "high-caliber" assault rifle?
A contradiction in terms.
An assault rifle is A) fully automatic (with a fire selector that includes either full auto or burst) and B) fires an intermediate rifle cartridge, meaning not high calibre.
If it's high calibre, but still a military rifle, it's a battle rifle. If it's intermediate calibre, but limited to semi-automatic fire, it's just a semi-auto rifle.
You can't legally buy assault rifles, or select fire battle rifles for that matter, if you're a civilian living in a first world nation. Doesn't matter what you might see in the news that says otherwise, go try it at your local gun store and see how far you get. If it's got automatic fire capability, it's a military weapon belonging in the hands of soldiers, and cannot be owned by your local gun nut anymore than he can own a live grenade.
Referring to anything that looks remotely dangerous as either an assault rifle or machine gun is a good indicator that the person doing the labelling knows fuck all about the subject at hand. "Assault style rifle", which is the weasel word term for weapons like the one in TFA, is about the same thing as a car that looks like a racecar, but drives like a sedan; legal, fancy looking, but boring under the hood.
(Disclaimer: I am Canadian. The second amendment down south is none of my business either way. I own no guns. I am firmly in the "guns belong in the hands of professionals" category. Anyone busting out the "sure, that's what an NRA drone wants you to think" in response to my post presumably didn't read the post script.)
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
Sweet....
He should have kept his mouth shut, then when DC has riots in 10 years, he could have kept his family safe.
Is that article originally from the Onion?
Geez, they're just lucky that they're still alive. That very big gun, capable of mowing down, well...just about anything, could have leapt out that box and killed her unborn child!
I mean, unloaded guns, still in packaging, have killed untold numbers of unsuspecting hipsters.
different sizes of bullets can be used in different sized firearms.
a smaller round could "bounce" if somebody is wearing a heavy jacket but something like a 7.62 X 51 mm NATO round might even get past some low end body armour.
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Of course it is...
The unborn child might have gotten ahold of the rifle and accidentally shot someone, or at least blown a big friggin' hole in the womb.
You know that and I know that but journalists don't seem to know that.
The term semi-automatic is really quite misleading for most people. It sounds a lot more impressive than it really is. Of course any weapon that doesn't look rustic is going to come off as bad-scary.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
semi-auto means that you squeeze the trigger and one -- ONE -- bullet comes out. Assult rifles are, by definition, fully automatic. This weapon is not full-auto, ergo it is not an assault rifle. "semi-automatic assault rifle" is a contradiction in terms.
You're not going to "mow down" anything with that gun. Again, it's semi-auto.
The rifle is chambered in 7.62 x 51 mm. That's, like, one of the most common rifle calibers in the world. There are hunting rifles that fire similar rounds, yes even the ones in the old cowboy movies.
But, hey, there's no reason we can't call this semi-auto rifle in a common caliber an "assault rifle capable of mowing down, well, just about anything." Who cares if it makes you sound like you don't know what the hell you're talking about? It's a gun! And not just any gun: it's black and has no wood on it! SCARY!
This story was on the local Washington DC NPR affiliate yesterday, and they did a much better job describing the problem -- it was quite obviously a UPS bungle, underneath the address sticker on the package, there was *another* address sticker, with the address of a gun shop in Maryland, which confirmed that they had indeed ordered this thing, and were waiting for it. Amazon doesn't appear to have done anything wrong in this case.
The part that I thought NPR did poorly was, both they and the guy who was the subject of the story kept going on about how dangerous the situation was, and I thought that was kind of over-blown. It was left on his porch for a while, which put it at risk for theft, but the gun was, as far as I can tell, not loaded, and there was no suitable ammunition anywhere around. So, it seems to me that, practically speaking, it was no more or less dangerous than a similarly-sized shovel or crowbar, independently of the presence of pregnant women and other vulnerable people.
When someone shows up with the right ammo, *then* it's dangerous. But not before.
2*3*3*3*3*11*251
"Assault Rifle" is a military term for a rifle that can be fired as semi-automatic or fully-automatic. The SIG 716 isn't an assault rifle and a Corvette ZR1 isn't tractor trailer.
The author probably meant "assault weapon" but that's a meaningless word for "scary looking gun" The now-expired Assault Weapons Ban defined certain guns by model and feature but mostly it was about looking scary. The gun in question was released this year so it couldn't have qualified based on the model and I don't care enough to check if it would qualify based on cosmetic features.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Well. Beyond the whole tendency to jam thing, you should be able to squeeze off plenty of rounds with only a semi-automatic.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Thats not entirely true... It is possible for civilians to own fully automatic weapons, however there are a limited number of them available (nothing produced after 1986, has to have been registered before then), the costs are usually astronomical (12-16k is average for a m-16 style weapon), only certain states allow it, and current wait times to get the paperwork processed is about 6 months. But it is possible... technically.
I am that much more enlightened and proportionally disillusioned
The automatic weapons prohibition is on a state by state basis. Florida for instance allows automatic weapons, though it takes a lot more time and money to buy one than it does for a semi-auto.
Guns don't kill people - bullets kill people. Your high-tech state-of-the-art roomsweeper is just an unwieldy club without ammunition.
'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
You feed him for a day. Give a man an assault rifle, and you'll feed him for as long as he has ammo!
"Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted." -Groucho Marx
It's DC. The price of housing forces you to have a kitchen/livingroom/closet.
I just ordered (seriously) a vacuum cleaner. Please stay tuned for the test of the thermonuclear device I'm going to get.
The gun is chambered for a 7.62 NATO round. That's like a .30 caliber bullet. A pretty common caliber for anyone who hunts medium sized game. It's a semi-auto rifle as well, so nothing incredible about that. If you ignore the 20 roiund clip, this rifle doesn't do anything out of the ordinary except look "scary".
A Barret .50 would have been much more exciting to receive.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
What does a Canadian band have to do with Obama and Romney?
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
No weapon kills people, people do. That's why no one should deny me my constitutional right to buy a tank and build a nuke.
In the USA depending on the gun store, the type of FFL they hold, and if you have gotten the tax stamp you can actually go and buy a fully auto or selective fire weapon. Granted these are retardedly expensive because of various bans on newer ones but ones made before 1986 (not entirely sure on the date and other details) you can buy. There is a gun shop about 2 miles from my work that can sell machine guns and has a few for sale right now.
Time to offend someone
It was, NPR reported that his address label was stuck on top of one for the gun shop it was intended to go to. Pretty much every one of the articles on this story also neglects to state that you can't have firearms shipped to your house unless you have an FFL.. You have to go pick it up at a gun store and go through a background check.
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
You have this exactly opposite. Like all gun grabbers, your facts are based on hearsay and idiot web blogs. There is a dictionary definition of assault rifle, and it includes full auto or burst mode. Full auto guns come in a variety of types, full auto only box fed or belt fed is a machine gun. Semi-automatic box fed is not a machine gun, shoulder fired full auto is not a machine gun either. The defunct ban attempted to ban appearances only, pistol grip, box magazine, rails, collapsible stock, etc. and you have swallowed it all hook line and sinker.
You can't legally buy assault rifles, or select fire battle rifles for that matter, if you're a civilian living in a first world nation. Doesn't matter what you might see in the news that says otherwise, go try it at your local gun store and see how far you get.
No, but you can go to a gun show and buy a kit that allows you to mod your gun to full auto. I have two uncles who are gun collectors, and this is no urban legend.
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
NPR reported that the label under this guys address is for a gun store in PA. This is really poor reporting. The washington post version lacks this detail as well, as well as any reporting that you can't ship firearms to a persons home unless they have a FFL.
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
Cars don't cause accidents. Guns don't kill people. IDEs don't write bugs.
if only. Then we'd never have recalls on cars, never have to patch bugs in IDE's and never have never have guns that accidentally discharge.
2012 jeep review in sweden the vehicle is consistently blowing tyres and nearly rolled over once. Most of the video is trying to figure out why it nearly rolled over once but not on subsequent attempts. But the tyres blowing at 70-80Km/h is uh... bad. Really really bad.
Bugs fixed in Visual studio 2012 some of this stuff goes back years and has to be compared against the c++ STL precisely because the way it does work, and the way it should work are not the same.
Don't get me started on years of various nVIDIA and AMD tools not playing nice with OpenGl or Directx.
Wiki on accidental discharge lists two scenarios, where a weapon is dropped, or when a weapon overheats that it can accidentally fire if it was improperly designed (e.g. a poor choice of materials).
So yes, cars themselves can cause accidents, guns do kill people, and IDE's can cause bugs in your code.
What does his wife being pregnant have to do with anything?
Now we know he (or one of his friends) is virile.
William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
Preferably one written by someone at least knowledgeable about guns. It's neither high caliber, nor capable of "mowing down just about anything".
It's gas-powered semi-automatic: One trigger pull, one round.
It's 7.62x51mm NATO, which is nearly (but not exactly) identical the .308 Winchester it's based on. It could be potentially classed as high-power (the .308 being a hunting round), but it is not high caliber.
It features the so-called "scary assault rifle look", particularly since it uses the popular modular rail mounting for components and accessories using with a common attachment design. But then there is no law that all rifles must look like grandpappy's squirrel gun, or be "not scary looking".
As for "mowing down", that's hyperbole. Any weapon is capable of such a thing if misused, be it a knife, gun, car, or simple bottle of Chlorine gas from your local pool.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
wrong! the term Assault Rifle DOES mean fully-auto or 3shot burst.. its the stupid fucking media and morons that dont know better than think something that LOOKS like an AK47 is the same thing they see the gurilla fighters using on TV. Technically the media and morons in congress call them 'Assault Weapons'. Get your facts right. The Stermgewere was history's FIRST assualt rifle. It used a cut down version of a rifle cartrige instead of using pistol ammo such as was common for the sub-machine guns of the WWII era. The assault rifle round had much more penetrating power than the 45ACP and 9x19mm ammo of the subs but not as much power as the .30-06 rifle rounds, but could lay down a supression fire and was highly portable over a full sized machine gun turret.
"SIG716, a high-caliber, semi-automatic assault rifle capable of mowing down, well, just about anything"
what makes a semi-automatic assault rifle diffrent from any other rifle of same barrell length and caliber?
oh, it looks scarier.
.223 / 5.56 (the common caliber for an AR-15) will go RIGHT THROUGH all but Level III plate armor.
7.62 will as well, even better, it'll do that, then go through two more guys plus a cement wall behind them.
Pistol caliber rounds (.32, .380, .38, .357, 9mm, 40mm, 10mm, and .45) and flack are what is stopped by normal soft armor (and to a certain extent, shotgun rounds depending on what type)
FIFY
An assault rifle by definition must be able to fire in fully-automatic mode. An assault rifle is a selective-fire weapon. This means it can switch between fully-automatic and semi-automatic mode.
Definition of assault rifle
noun
a rapid-fire, magazine-fed automatic rifle designed for infantry use.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/assault%2Brifle?region=us&q=assault+rifle
I am reliably informed that at proper finishing schools you learn how to pluck and gut game birds, if not actually how to shoot them. So I think you may be misunderestimating what happens there.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Yep, the Washington Post's version lacked the details you mentioned and any discussion that you have to ship firearms to a gun store or FFL holder. To be fair, WAMU failed to mention the FFL part as well. I think it speaks volumes to the amount of detail left out in stories either due to shrinking newsrooms, or rush to report rather than trying to sell a story by omission. Its a simple case why people should get their news from multiple sources.
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
The bass was really loud; I thought I blew the speakers, but when I tried again, it was still as loud. It was at that point that I noticed the large, gaping holes in my wall. Within a few minutes, police had arrived at my house, to ask if anything was wrong. I informed them that my television was malfunctioning, and they seemed to decide I was a lunatic and drove away. When I tried to RMA it, the man on the other end of the support line laughed at me and hung up.
Would not buy again.
Slashdot is not a US centric site. They keep saying that because they want it to be true, but it isn't.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
;)
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
DC isn't one of the 50 states.
I guess it's like the old porn shop gag, ex Monty Python I think:
"I want to buy an...iPhone"
"Sorry, Sir, wrong euphemism."
"A microwave oven?"
"Try again..."
"A high-definition TV?"
"Ah, now Sir is talking. If you come in back you can peruse our...interesting equipment."
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
You know that and I know that but journalists don't seem to know that.
Using that term to refer to the booger-blasters who pump out poorly researched and written blog posts is giving them entirely too much credit, you know.
Yes, I am aware the same complaint applies to many, many of the 'articles' posted on 'legitimate' network news sites - the complaint remains valid nonetheless.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
why not?
why can't you hunt with one?
what makes this a bad weapon to hunt with?
Being a user of Microsoft Visual Studio I'd like to take issue with that last one...
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
Man orders something. Supplier gets order wrong.
The fact that they really should be more careful with something fairly tightly regulated adds a little I guess but it's not that serious.
exactly my point thus this is a high Caliber Rifle
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
The media term is "assault weapon" and the reason they usually don't use "assault rifle" is because the former has no real definition, where as the latter is a specific designation type and MUST feature an automated mode of fire. And I believe it is also defined as an individual firearm (as opposed to a squad manned fully automatic rifle, oft referred to as a machine gun)
No sig is a good sig
Isn't that what the "gun grabbers" say? :-)
Mind you that 1/2 the features that Jafiwam mentions above that were banned were in fact safety and ergonomic features:
- barrel shroud, a safety device to prevent burns from hot barrels
- adjustable stock, ergonomic feature developed to allow a 6'7" male soldier in the army and a 4'7" female soldier to utilize the same equipment.
- rails, ergonomic advancement allowing for quick mounting of scopes, lights, via a universal system - think Universal Serial Bus (USB).
depends on the gun.
mil-spec AR-15s yes, AK47s yes, most guns that were designed to be fully auto, and have the space in the housing and trigger selector that accomidates the second automatic hammer assembly yes.
every other semi automatic gun no.
not every civilian AR-15 can be made fully automatic with a simple kit. You might need the entire milspec low reciever parts kit.
its also a grey area, and not readily available everywhere.
You and a lot of posters are confusing "assault rifle" with "assault weapon", a term invented by the Brady Campaign to mean "scary-looking gun."
An assault rifle is simply a fully automatic, low-caliber rifle. An assault weapon, on the other hand, was legally defined as a gun with too much black plastic (pistol grip, barrel shroud, folding stock, others.)
DATABASE WOW WOW
With an assault rifle, he can get all the hi-def TVs he wants.
Some see the vessel as half full; others see it as half-empty; We pour it out on the floor and laugh
5.56 = most common western caliber
7.62x39 = most common eastern caliber
Both of which pale in comparison to most hunting rounds...
technically its a carbine not a battle rifle
carbine == semi automatic assault rifle in today's terminology
a battle rifle has a hard body, a bayonet mount, and a very sold butt stock that is good for swinging at an oponent in close combat along with bayonet. part of the features of a battle rifle is that it is supposed to be used as a staff/spear in close combat.
No, the term "high power rifle" doesn't come from the name of a pistol. "High power rifle" is commonly associated the the NRA competition class of the same name, and the term is used to distinguish it from .22 rimfire ("smallbore") competition. One commonly used high power rifle, the M1 Garand, only holds 8 rounds. High power rifles generally need to be reasonably accurate to 600 yards, although there are long range courses of fire going out to 1000 yards. Try that with your 9mm.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
So wrong it's laughable. I've got some advice for you - don't get your information from US Congressmen. They very often do not know what they are talking about.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
MyCleanPC.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
.223 ammunition is significantly different from .22. It generates a lot higher pressures and has a larger, heavier bullet despite the small difference in caliber. I think "not much more than a varmint round" is inaccurate.
Here's some PDFs from the U.S. military on what constitutes an "assault rifle". http://gunfax.com/aw.htm To be an assault rifle, the firearm MUST support SELECTIVE FIRE. The Sig716 mentioned in the article does not have selective fire and is therefore NOT an assault rifle. Period. It is a semi-auto firearm styled ergonomically like an assault rifle, but it isn't one. Also, does anyone else find the article a little strange? Rifles and TVs aren't even close to the same size or shaped box. D.C. is probably the most anti-firefarm city in the U.S. concerning its policies, and obviously the most public and political, and yet someone got shipped an AR style firearm instead of a TV? It wasn't even just a bolt action hunting rifle, it just so happened to be AR styled? Immediately after being reported the Brady Campaign of course jumped on this. Shipping errors can happen of course, but doesn't the convenience of all this kind of smell like a publicity stunt?
Perhaps he'll get another unit in 6 months, and save 15% with free 2-day shipping through Amazon Primed.
Seems to me that the "bogey man" keeping liberals up at night was the image of a lonely guy obsessed with butch looking guns. The ban seems to me to have been more about demonizing a section of the public than about controlling weaponry, and to me that's just an unsavory as the right wing demonization of welfare recipients.
I am pro gun control, but the old ban does not seem to me to have been the right way to go about it.
Nullius in verba
Depends on the firearm.
Most modern day firearms do not have the space available within to just " drop in "
a burst or full auto trigger. You would have to also go in and modify the trigger
compartment of the lower receiver. Not easily done by even a hardcore gun owner.
You need access to a machine shop.
Unless, of course, you're talking about the Slide-Fire stock. Sort of a cheesy way :D ( Google it if you want to know
to get full auto out of an AR-15 or AK-47 style weapon. While it does work ( and
has full BATFE blessings behind it ) it's really a waste of ammo for the most part.
Learn how to shoot and you only need one shot.
about it )
I've never understood the whole ban on scary looking guns thing. Pointless waste
of time. An accurate hunting rifle painted pink with a Hello Kitty logo emblazoned
on the side is still just as lethal as any black military looking rifle.
AND FYI
You can purchase full auto ( and other Class III devices ) as a civilian. You simply
have to limit your weapon purchases to those devices that were manufactured prior
to the ban. They are expensive, but I assure you, they are legal to purchase and own.
Of course, it also depends on State Laws. Short barreled rifles, suppressors and
even destructive devices ( such as grenade launchers ) are all quite legal to own.
Do you need one ? Irrelevant. Do you need a Ferrari ? Of course not, but they :D
are fun
As long as your State Laws allow them, then Federal laws say you're good to go as
long as they get some money from you.
You simply need to drive down to the gun store, pick out your device of choice and
fill out the paperwork ( known as a Form 4 ). ( You'll need a trust or CLEO sign off
to do this ) The form 4 and your check to cover the tax stamp ( varies for different
devices, but is $200 for suppressors, short barreled rifles, and full automatic / burst
weapons ) are all mailed to the BATFE where they will look it over and either approve
/ disapprove it within 3-6 months.
Once your form comes back, the gun store will call you and you simply go down and pick
it up.
Some additional rules come into play for these in that you have to keep a copy of the
form 4 with the weapon or device. Other folks don't get to play with them without your
direct supervision. Usually stay locked in a safe, etc.
I personally own three of these devices, so I assure you, it can be done.
I cannot speak on this particular model. However, the jamming bit seems to be more common with western battle/assault style guns. Plenty of sport rifles will happily plink away at cans all afternoon with nary a problem. If you really want to spray like a paintballer and have a jam free experience go with one of the semi-auto AK variants.
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
That is legal for deer hunting in all 50 states...
But not in Hanover County, Virginia. We must use shotguns (slugs ok) or muzzle-loaders. Strangely, Hanover is a mostly-rural county; surrounding heavily-populated counties like Henrico and the City of Richmond do not have similar restrictions. [I see that Chesterfield County has joined in on the rifle ban; too bad!]
If you're profoundly bored, Virginia hunting rules can be found here and a synopsis of local regulations can be found here.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
"More impressive than it really is"? The rifle used in the Aurora shootings was semi-auto, and fired smaller bullets. I bet everybody who was there was sufficiently impressed.
What, the rioting hordes can't buy guns? You NRA types with your Maginot fantasies kill me.
Literally.
for a TV, so they sent him a rifle.
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
Sorry, you have no no clue what you're talking about. First, get educated on the subject; read up on muzzle energy vs muzzle velocity. There are many sites about reloading that have that sort of data. Then go to a range and fire a few hundred rounds each in firearms chambered for many different rounds of varying calibers and muzzle energy, and get back to us that know what we're talking about from experience.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
2012 jeep review in sweden the vehicle is consistently blowing tyres and nearly rolled over once. Most of the video is trying to figure out why it nearly rolled over once but not on subsequent attempts. But the tyres blowing at 70-80Km/h is uh... bad. Really really bad.
That's the designer/manufacturer/operator's fault. I.e. people.
Bugs fixed in Visual studio 2012 some of this stuff goes back years and has to be compared against the c++ STL precisely because the way it does work, and the way it should work are not the same.
That's the designer/manufacturer/operator's fault. I.e. people.
Don't get me started on years of various nVIDIA and AMD tools not playing nice with OpenGl or Directx.
That's the designer/manufacturer's fault. I.e. people.
Wiki on accidental discharge lists two scenarios, where a weapon is dropped, or when a weapon overheats that it can accidentally fire if it was improperly designed (e.g. a poor choice of materials).
That's the designer/manufacturer/operator's fault. I.e. people.
So yes, cars themselves can cause accidents, guns do kill people, and IDE's can cause bugs in your code.
Hyperbole troll is hyperbolic...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
... but can't buy or own ammo for their rifle unless they're at the range, and they have to use it there. They also can't carry the rifle around unless they're on the way to the range or some militia training exercise.
-- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
Actually it is a fine hunting weapon, I have AR-10 same cartridge that I use for large game hunting. I know it is black so nobody would hunt with that, right?
Got Code?
Besides that, how is a SEMI-automatic going to mow people down? That's like saying scissors are dangerous, you can make people BALD! INSTANTLY!
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
I imagine the amount of damage depends largely on where it hits, and thus upon the skill of the shooter. Even a 9mm is going to be quite effective in the hands of someone who has enough practice to hit a head-sized target.
You should be a bit more precise, because what you said is broadly true, but factually incorrect. I.e. your post was sloppy.
Some 9mm rounds are designed to defeat armor, for example the 9x31 subsonic used in the Vintorez.
Some 7.62 rounds will be easily stopped by level 1-2 armor, for example the 7.62x25 for the Tokarev.
It's silly to talk about caliber, when what matters is the kind of weapon that's firing the round. Body armor is mostly effective against pistols. Few of them offer any significant protection against assault rifles, and nothing you can wear will help you much against battle rifles, most sniper rifles, or machine guns.
Yes, gun enthusiasts can spend hours discussing the merits of a .45 handgun vs a 9mm one, but at the end of the day a pistol is a pistol, a rifle a rifle, and the significance of calibers is infinitesimal in comparison.
No good deed goes unpunished...
And deaths in road accidents come to a little under one 9/11 each month.
... it ain't an ASSAULT RIFLE!
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
If I had added the word "usually" would that have been sufficient? Yes, there are exceptions, but cars are not designed to cause accidents, guns are not designed to auto-discharge and IDEs are not designed to create bugs.
I accept your points as valid. Nevertheless, I take exception to sensationalist reporting that blames the vehicle rather than the driver when the driver is clearly at fault.
You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.
This rifle is but one example of the hundreds that have been manufactured in .308 Winchester for 60 years now. If you read the article, you'll see that the .308 cartridge was designed in 1952 AND IS THE BASIS FOR THE MILITARY CARTRIDGE. It is wildly popular in short-action rifles for hunting large game. It is typically loaded to slightly lower muzzle energies than the longer .30-06, but is usually cheaper, and as 'short' cartridge it allows for faster follow-up shots if needed. (It also is supposedly slightly more accurate because of its length).
Don't spout rhetoric; learn the facts.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
You can't legally buy assault rifles, or select fire battle rifles for that matter, if you're a civilian living in a first world nation. Doesn't matter what you might see in the news that says otherwise, go try it at your local gun store and see how far you get. If it's got automatic fire capability, it's a military weapon belonging in the hands of soldiers, and cannot be owned by your local gun nut anymore than he can own a live grenade.
Civilians can legally purchase full-auto guns in the US, as long they live in one of the 39 states that allow full auto weapons and own the appropriate tax stamp.
Canadians can legally purchase full-auto guns (just not from gun stores), as long as they have the 12.2 status on their PAL.
I don't blame you for getting the facts wrong though. I'm guessing 50% of American gun owners don't know about the tax stamps and 90% of Canadian gun owners don't know about the 12.2 status.
Doctors with guns?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein
-- Using the preview button since 2005
If you read TFA, it looks like it was a mistake by UPS, so why even mention Amazon? (And Amazon doesn't allow listing of guns anyway.) The article says the box was addressed to a gun dealer in PA ... not an error by Amazon or the vendor, but by the shipper.
Though I do wonder what was in the other box. The photo shows a big shipping box with the rifle box on top of it, there's still another box in the shipping box ...
Agenda is cranked way the hell up jeeez! Slight breech of etiquette, with the *triple dog dare* propaganda coming out of the rats' nest of DC.
With an assault rifle you can go out and get any TV you want. And keep it too. Even in Wash DC.
The reverse, not so much.
> I bet everybody who was there was sufficiently impressed.
I dunno. That was almost a worst case scenario and it managed to score 13 and wound a lot more. If the idiot had used a more reliable weapon (ditch the hundred round drum) he could have got a few more. But remember he also built bombs which were supposed to create a distraction and only failed because of pure luck.
Imagine instead if the guy had been a little more rational (just not rational enough to realize how stupid the whole going postal thing is) and realized the bombs were far more lethal than the gun. Now imagine him coming in through that emergency exit with a dozen bombs. Toss some incendaries and smoke into the exits to cause the exit stampede to bottle up then lob fragmentations into the dense crowd. Use a pair (with sensible clips to avoid jams) of pistols to nail anyone coming toward him (easy targets) while continuing to toss various nasty stuff. Lead pipe cinch he would have upped his score with that plan. And this guy had some education, remember that. A chemical attack would have been within his ability. WWI tech poision gas should not have posed a problem for someone with his knowledge.
He went with the guns because he bought into the popular mythology.
Democrat delenda est
I could do that:
1. Place semiautomatic in the hands of a standing Barbie doll.
2. Raise riding lawnmower blades as high as possible.
3. Drive the lawnmower over the doll.
I am officially gone from
Where can I order this TV!!!!!!???!?!??!!!
Wuddooeyeno? IITYWYBMAD? Like nuts? eclecticallyincorrect.com
You can't legally buy assault rifles, or select fire battle rifles for that matter, if you're a civilian living in a first world nation. Doesn't matter what you might see in the news that says otherwise, go try it at your local gun store and see how far you get.
No, but you can go to a gun show and buy a kit that allows you to mod your gun to full auto. I have two uncles who are gun collectors, and this is no urban legend.
While it was true back in the 70's that type of stuff went on, it isn't now. Gun shows now have sheriff's deputies, ATF, and FBI (both uniformed and plain clothed) wandering in looking for that stuff. It would be very very dumb to sell anything like that. Your uncles are waxing nostalgic about it at best, simply lying to you at worst.
It would be far safer and easier to produce a blow back sub machine gun if one wanted full auto, for that design it's easier to make auto than semi. Modern "sporting" or EBR type rifles are designed to be difficult to convert to auto.
It's also more trouble than it's worth, a semi is nearly as effective and produces a better disciplined set of fire
Full auto is for the few that have cash to blow on lots of rounds that don't do anything but make a lot of noise
Get out and see what is at a gun show. They still have stinky people selling right wing propaganda, but are missing a bunch of things that are now... urban legend.
False. The Sig Sauer 522 is a semi. Just like the one from the article. (It gets good reviews BTW.)
FWIW, .308 is not legal in Indiana. Maximum case length allowed is 1.8 inches and the .308 Winchester is 2.015.
http://www.eregulations.com/indiana/hunting/deer-regulations/
Amazon doesn't sell guns unfortunately. Not real ones, anyway. I bought an AR15 a few weeks ago and would have liked to have bought from amazon so I could take advantage of my free shipping/prime account. I just rechecked, still no guns. I think it's more likely that the shipping company screwed up.
1. I haven't ordered guns through the postal system but shouldn't there be a system where the postal system knows what is being shipped? It would have been helpful if a postal worker had noticed that a dangerous semi-automatic rifle was being shipped to a D.C. address and notified police. As an example this guy (http://www.joc.com/government-regulation/con-way-freight-helps-capture-alleged-terrorist) was caught because the shipping company became suspicious and notified the FBI. Why was this gun not detected and intercepted?
2. Where are the quality controls on this? There should be a big difference in the shipping weight and dimensions of a flat-screen TV and a rifle. Amazon must have poor QA/QC if they cannot automatically detect a shipping discrepancy and hold the shipment to be checked. This is not that complicated - stores now have self-checkout lines that check the scanned UPC code against the weight added to the bag. Quite simple, except for Amazon.
3. What did the gun store (that was supposed to get that rifle) get? Presumably it was a flat-screen TV, but it considering the poor tracking on this issue by Amazon there could be a whole series of incorrectly shipped items.
4. I didn't know Amazon was in the gun-selling business. However I can't find any high-powered guns on their website (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Sig+Sauer+SIG716). How did this get ordered from Amazon in the first place?
1. It's not an issue about what the postal system knows. Shippers of guns have to get an "FFL info" sheet from the recipient. An FFL is a specially licensed dealer allowed to transfer ownership of guns (across state lines, and in some states between people within the same state, and from businesses that sell guns). Rifles are not any more dangerous than any other hunk of solid matter until someone picks it up and puts ammo in it and tries to use it. It's not a bomb for fucks sake.
2. I am going to guess, the quality control was some shipping dock somewhere where some tard that missed his smoke break slapped a label on the wrong object and it didn't get caught. Someone probably stole the TV, so the "next label" on the printed sheet got stuck on the wrong box. The shipping company probably didn't mess it up, whomever put the label on it did. Nobody wants to ship expensive stuff to the wrong place, but mess ups are inevitable. Especially if someone is trying to cover theft. You should be much more concerned that drugs get to the proper place. Those are more likely to be used inappropriately or taken by children.
3. The original label was under the TV label. The TV was probably stolen. This is not a one for one swap. The gun store got nothing because their label was under the label that sent the rifle to the wrong place.
4. They aren't. They do however sell for various third parties, one of whom apparently shares a shipping hub with another shipper that ships guns. They don't even have to both be selling on Amazon. See #2 above. It didn't get ordered from amazon. The TV did.
unlike the weaksauce 5.56x45 used in actual assault rifles.
There are assault rifles in 7.62x51. FN SCAR-H is one example.
In this particular case, the rifle is chambered in .308, not in .223. .308 is a fairly decent hunting cartridge, though definitely not on the "high powered" size of things.
What do you mean by "even a 9mm"? A 9mm is significantly more powerful than .22 LR. It most certainly doesn't require head shots to take a person down or kill them - in fact, it's just powerful enough that hydrostatic shock starts to manifest itself.
You are correct. I also doubt they allow deer hunting at all in Hawaii.
Indiana is not one of those 50 states, either.
Granted these are retardedly expensive because of various bans on newer ones but ones made before 1986 (not entirely sure on the date and other details) you can buy.
No full auto firearm can be made or imported for civilian ownership in US after 1986 - the ban is pretty much a blanket one. So civilian full auto market is limited to those guns who were in the country before that date, hence the pricing.
Amazon DOES NOT SELL FIREARMS!
YOU CANNOT BUY FIREARMS THROUGH THE MAIL!
IF THIS BULLSHIT IS TRUE MANY FEDERAL LAWS WERE BROKEN!
This is a classic political BS story that would never have appeared if it was not in the wake of mass murders involving firearms!
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
a battle rifle has a hard body, a bayonet mount, and a very sold butt stock that is good for swinging at an oponent in close combat along with bayonet. part of the features of a battle rifle is that it is supposed to be used as a staff/spear in close combat.
There was never any clear definition of a "battle rifle". The term was only used after real assault rifles were introduced to describe M14, FAL, G3 and other similar guns, which looked a lot like assault rifles, except for firing a bigger, "full size" cartridge.
To that extent, practically everything on your list doesn't belong. For example, G3 variants exist with collapsing stock, and FAL with folding stock. The body of a FAL is not notably harder than the body of an AK. Obviously, most assault rifles today have bayonet mounts.
So the only practical difference is the caliber. Everything else is superficial. Most certainly "art of the features of a battle rifle is that it is supposed to be used as a staff/spear in close combat" is wrong - you'd be insane to use a semi-auto firearm with a large capacity magazine that way.
No, no, wait, mods! This is clearly on-topic! Just look:
1. This person wanted to buy a TV for his wife, but instead got a high-powered semi-automatic rifle. See where I'm going with this? He'll kill his wife with the gun by accident!
2. This sort of shipping mishap must have been done by someone so inexperienced with the English language to mess up an order that badly. It can be assumed, therefore, that this job was outsourced from whatever third-party reseller being used in this case. The chief of said company must have made that decision.
3. This is a very embarrassing gaffe, overseas or not.
4. Amazon's been under attack recently by states demanding they collect sales taxes. And the TV that was supposed to be delivered would've been quite heavy. Combine those together, and the middle class will be crushed, and there's taxes!
5. Whoever did this will need to be hunted down and fired. Unfortunately, this will result in a McCarthy-esque witch hunt in the company until everyone responsible has been found.
6. Ownership of such a gun may not be a crime in DC, but we still need to figure out where it came from; it may be a felony in whatever country this was shipped from.
7. The customer couldn't abort the shipment before it got to him. Or rather, he had no reason it would need to be. But, he certainly wouldn't abort the order if he could use the gun to defend someone being raped.
8. Most likely, this entire affair was due to some penny-pinching MBA, most likely one from a prep school where they have no real concept of how the real world works. As a result, the outsourcing issue mentioned above, ultimately leading to this erroneous shipment.
9. The company probably wants to keep this a secret. See the part about it being a major gaffe.
10. This is obviously racist, too. I mean, would they accidentally ship semi-automatic rifles to BLACK PEOPLE?!? No. This was shipped to a white guy due to racial fears.
See? It all ties in to the article at hand. This certainly wasn't some political nutjob vomiting up a copy-and-paste checklist in the desperate, DESPERATE hope that someone, ANYONE will care about what he's saying.
Its was a 3rd party.
So some company, that uses Amazon, sent the wrong package. Amazon had nothing to do with it but host the 3rd party's products.
.223 "is considered pitiful, not much more than a varmint round." No, not really. The wounding characteristics of small calibre high velocity ammunition when paired with a weapon that can generate sufficient velocity at the point of impact is hardly "pitiful". 5.56x45mm (or similar ammunition, like the Russian 5.45mm) is capable of creating more damaging wounds than larger rounds in some contexts. The US military (and others) did research on this, and found the traditional rifle rounds used by "gramps" would often pass through bodies cleanly, leaving a relatively small wound. 5.56x45mm was found to often become unstable when it penetrated the body, tumbling and fragmenting, causing wound effects greatly disproportionate to its size. (Have a look under "Performance" here: 5.56x45mm NATO article on Wikipedia .) Paired with the fact it was lighter, and produced much less recoil, you have a potentially more accurate weapon for which more ammunition can be carried, comparatively. (As for why it's not optimal for deer hunting, first of all, the size and physiology of the animal is different, and second, a hunter is supposed to go for a clean kill. A soldier is dealing with people firing back, and the goal is to drop them, not get the perfect shot, as nice is that would be. Use your imagination: in the context of a shooting rampage, which of those scenarios is a closer fit?)
"Compared to what gramps used in WWII or worse, WWI, it's laughable..." First of all, what "gramps" used in WWI and WWII was equivalent, e.g. .30-'06 if US military, .303 Enfield if British/Commonwealth, 7.92mm Mauser if German, etc. Not sure where the "or worse" is coming from, that implies a difference. And as for "it's laugable", I've already addressed that above.
While the hordes argue over what the term "assault weapons" means or doesn't mean, there is a much more significant question: how did a firearm get sent to a private individual's house in the US, who is not a licensed firearms dealer? This is the error that (I suspect) is going to get someone (who shipped that package) into trouble....
I had thought that doing so was illegal in all 50 states. Is it so?
You can mail a gun TO a dealer or a repair center, but they can only return it to a FFL/firearms dealer. They cannot legally send it directly to your home address.
Most companies are very skittish on following this law; I've sent in air rifles for repair and they wouldn't mail them back to my house....
Because that would be nice.
It pleases me to see so many Nerds also interested in Firearms.
For every benefit you receive a tax is levied. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
My dad went through this process to get his Thompson, it's a hoot.
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
FTA:
UPDATE, 10:45 a.m.: Ty Rogers, an Amazon spokesman, declined to say what the company is doing to remedy the situation.
Why should Amazon have to do anything in the first place? This was a shipping error by UPS and has nothing to do with Amazon. Amazon wasn't even the one directly selling the TV, they just listed the page for one of their third party sellers. UPS should be the company to remedy the issue by getting the man his TV. I suspect the person the gun was intended for is eager to get his $2500 gun opposed to the $400 TV he likely got anyway.
What's a "high-caliber" assault rifle?
I was wondering this myself, so here is the SIG Sauer page on the 716:
So apparently 7.62mm is "large caliber" according to SIG, but they say this is a "carbine" or "patrol rifle", but not an "assault rifle" or "assault weapon" :)
A real infantry rifle is meant to be used more like a hunting rifle.
It's not a machine gun and isn't supposed to be used like one. Even real machine guns aren't supposed to be kept on continuous fire indefinitely. Intensive use of a rifle will overheat the barrel. That's why real machine guns have removable barrels.
Some people just choose to remain ignorant and spread misinformation. They see a weapon, think it looks scary, and then conflate it with something from a gangster movie.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I thought import ban went back further but was not sure. I knew about the date for the domestic ones and it works as a general valid rule of thumb.
Time to offend someone
Semi-automatic rifles don't "mow." They shoot one bullet at a time, one per manual pull and release of the trigger. But hey. Nice try with the hysterical pitch. omg "assault" rifle!!!! Idiot.
You want "mowing", you need a fully automatic weapon.
I modded you as offtopic, but only for the irony.
"In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash"
The gun is illegal to have in DC. He could have been arrested just for having it on his porch. Worse, if the police had found out about it before he called them, they could have come in with weapons drawn.
Or, worse yet, since it was left unattended, it could have been stolen, used in a crime, and then the gentleman may have been liable even though he did not order the gun or even know that it was there.
Those things aside, however, I do agree that an unloaded rifle in a box isn't very dangerous all on its own.
I would have STFU, and just complained about the non-arriving TV order.
I wonder: is this unborn child assumed to have a football shaped head, an English accent, and a penchant for elocution?
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Just to add on to this, hunting deer with rifles isn't legal in my state, either. And, really, anyone who hunts deer with a rifle is a bitch hunter. I could sit on my roof with a rifle and take out dozens of deer. That's not sport.
Real men use bows, shotguns are for kids who don't have the strength for a bow yet.
"From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
In the context used by most people including the media, an Assault Rifle is semi-auto. An Assault Weapon is either a rifle or a handgun that meets certain scary cosmetic configurations.
Zing!
What a perfect case study... Finally we have a controlled situation where we can answer that age old NRA vs Liberal question...
Did he turn into a raving lunatic and gun down people?
1. I haven't ordered guns through the postal system but shouldn't there be a system where the postal system knows what is being shipped? It would have been helpful if a postal worker had noticed that a dangerous semi-automatic rifle was being shipped to a D.C. address and notified police. As an example this guy (http://www.joc.com/government-regulation/con-way-freight-helps-capture-alleged-terrorist) was caught because the shipping company became suspicious and notified the FBI. Why was this gun not detected and intercepted?
Indeed -- to me, THIS is the story here. The government enacted some laws, and then failed to provide any infrastructure to enforce said laws in a sane manner.
2. Where are the quality controls on this? There should be a big difference in the shipping weight and dimensions of a flat-screen TV and a rifle. Amazon must have poor QA/QC if they cannot automatically detect a shipping discrepancy and hold the shipment to be checked. This is not that complicated - stores now have self-checkout lines that check the scanned UPC code against the weight added to the bag. Quite simple, except for Amazon.
The other articles answer this one... Amazon isn't at fault here -- their shipper is. The gun wasn't from Amazon, it just came through the same shipper, who took a lablel destined for/which had been on (articles don't really say which) the TV and slapped it on the gun box, which already had a label. Any reasonable shipper should have flagged this IMMEDIATELY, as the code usually has the dimensions and weight encoded, and these would not match the current package. Since the gun should never have made it to DC, and was destined for PA, that means that the labels weren't switched at the last moment, but had to travel through a processing station in the mislabeled state. That the switch wasn't detected there reflects poor quality control at that processing station.
3. What did the gun store (that was supposed to get that rifle) get? Presumably it was a flat-screen TV, but it considering the poor tracking on this issue by Amazon there could be a whole series of incorrectly shipped items.
More likely, they didn't get anything, but saw their shipment "vanish" in a processing hub. The TV likely ended up with NO shipping label.
4. I didn't know Amazon was in the gun-selling business. However I can't find any high-powered guns on their website (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Sig+Sauer+SIG716). How did this get ordered from Amazon in the first place?
Already answered this one above; the reporting was slipshod. The shipper isn't the only one with a lack of quality control here....
Oh, right, it's unimpressive because any properly-trained firearms expert could have done better. I'm sure that will make all the families of the dead feel a whole lot better.
Mind you that 1/2 the features that Jafiwam mentions above that were banned were in fact safety and ergonomic features:
- barrel shroud, a safety device to prevent burns from hot barrels
- adjustable stock, ergonomic feature developed to allow a 6'7" male soldier in the army and a 4'7" female soldier to utilize the same equipment.
- rails, ergonomic advancement allowing for quick mounting of scopes, lights, via a universal system - think Universal Serial Bus (USB).
Yeah; many places have bans or strict controls on "silencers" and "suppressors" too -- likely from all the movies we've seen where the gun is truly either silenced or sounds more like someone unzipping a jacket. In reality, a silencer or suppressor only brings the volume down to what is safe for the unprotected ear when fired in the open... similar to a car muffler.
Now it's possible to create a quieter chamber and muffling system in the bore, but that's not the fault of a silencer.
Are you really telling me that in the US, you can just go and buy a real assault rifle online and it will just get shipped to your door?
WTF is *wrong* with you people!?
Not exactly. What I am asserting is that because the popular culture makes guns seem far more deadly than they actually are it saved lives. If they guy had been a little smarter he could have killed half the people in the hall and injured almost everyone. And since it was a sold out premiere that number could have been truly horrible. Not that seventy casualties is something good, but that it could have been a lot worse.
Democrat delenda est
start your own website if you don't like that Americans own and operate this one.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Unless you are talking about relativistic speeds, a high velocity round say, a .50 caliber M2 round fired from a Serbu Single Shot will just tear straight through, might shatter and make a bigger hole on the exit. Hit in the finger or something, it'll just rip the finger off and continue more or less straight, and more or less intact (maybe tumbling). Center of mass shots do indeed make big holes. However, you are describing an explosive-tipped bullet for it to spread "razor sharp projectiles in all directions." You are just plain wrong. Mythbusters pool experiment did show something, specifically what bullets do when they hit water. Which is very different than what happens when they hit flesh. A better analog for flesh is ballistics gel.
This was about your use of the word "unimpressive". If you don't find a dozen dead people "impressive" then there's really not point in trying to tell you anything.
I was refering to the previous commenter who dismissed the 9mm as ineffective: "This is backed up by evidence because loughner only had a 9mm, which did very little damage." I'm just arguing that at close range (where the bullet loses little energy to air resistance) the damage potential of small arms depends almost entirely on the shooter's ability to aim it. You can substitute the weapon of your choice: Anything with more kinetic energy than a BB gun is going to hurt if it hits you in the face.
assault rifle capable of mowing down, well, just about anything
Nope no bias there.
And, just for the record its a *semi* automatic, so its not an 'assault' rifle. Phhft
---- Booth was a patriot ----
No. that is why this is news worthy.
In the US you may order and pay for a gun. But it will get to a licensed dealer. Then held for a waiting period while background checks are done. And then must be released to you, in person. Some states have additional regulation, like California requires handguns to have a special state certification, that the buyer provides a thumb print for the firearms transfer (the FFL "owns" the firearm until it is released to the buyer), that ammo capacity and assault rifle restrictions are met, that the gun is not on a federal or state banned list (50BMG is banned in California, even though it is primarily used for target shooting competition) and finally that the buyer has not purchased more than the maximum number of handguns in a given period (you can't buy and receive a matched pair of custom handguns in California. you have to have someone hold part of the set for a month).
assault rifle is a poorly defined term. different jurisdictions have different definitions. And popular consensus usually differs from the various legal definitions. To be honest I think California's 10 round capacity limit is the most effective way to deal with assault rifles in the US to date. For hunting and for most types of competition, more than 10 rounds is unnecessary. For fun/entertainment, I'm sure high-capacity 100 round drum is great fun, but is it absolutely necessary? As a society we do have to balance between safety and fun. For gun I guess people will just have to shoot 10 cans, then reload. As for self-defense, I'm not in a position to judge what is appropriate for self defense, as I don't personally use firearms for self defense.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Not really. That packed theater was basically shooting fish in a barrel. Media reports say he got off about seventy rounds before the thing jammed and a few more with a pistol. Total casualties were seventy hits and only thirteen dead. As an example of the lethality of firearms it isn't 'impressive.' Not exactly good but it could have been a lot worse. Of course most weapons are patterned after military designs which aren't intended to kill so it isn't really suprising to anyone paying attention. Wounded drain much more of the opponent's resources in war.
Democrat delenda est
Out of all places, found out more details, heavens to Betsy, from all places FoxNews.
How did it end up in Washington, D.C.? According to The Florida Gun Exchange, the rifle was shipped properly, according to law with the correct address on the box. But in transit, the label with Horvitz's address somehow came off the box with the television and was attached to the box with the gun. "Whoever made the mistake, it's pretty serious. I think it should be followed up," said Horvitz. The Florida Gun Exchange says it's looking to UPS for answers.
Immediately thought of this as soon as I read it. http://xkcd.com/325/
Um, .308 Winchester is about 10% less hot than commercial .30-06, but .30-06 has a wide range of loadings and bullet weights. It's one of, if not the, most adaptable cartridge out there due to its 100+ year history (starting with black powder in 1901 Springfields, IIRC).
7.62 NATO is quite a bit hotter than .308 Winchester, however.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Once the correction is made officially, the media will be sure to jump on it. It'll be a two-fer: they'll get to call it a spastic bullet hose and a baby killing sniper battle canon.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Semi-automatic is a single round per trigger pull. These will not mow anything down. Unless you still have acid in your spinal column, are currently are high, or cry for the trees, "assault weapon" is not about features (looks) but function. Ignorant people (usually that live in big cities) should not use the term "assault weapon", or "automatic" if they do not know what that means. A true "assault weapon" is only available in the military, or requires a special firearm license to even get issued by the government. If it fires one round per trigger pull, it is just a rifle... Please don't use ignorant terms like the media (mentioned above), and politicians, because you will look stupid AND ignorant. If it is black, don't be a racist and call it an "assault weapon", or "automatic" because it is black, educate yourself but not in a liberal college regurgitating terms of ignorance...
When the dictionary says one thing and a journalist says another, the journalist is wrong. If a newspaper refers to an iPad as a laptop, or calls a head of lettuce a fruit, or calls Micheal Phelps a diver, the newspaper is wrong. Not wrong in the sense of "I don't agree with this", but wrong in the sense of "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means".
An assault rifle is a select fire automatic weapon. Not semi auto. Unless, of course, you want to accuse the Oxford English Dictionary of being in the pocket of the NRA.
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
Chill. Never did I say that I have any problem with Americans running the site.
I am simply saying it is not US Centric, and it isn't. A substantial number of users are not American and a number of stories are not US Centric. Just because it is operated by Americans does not make it US Centric.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
US Centric as a term has nothing to do with where a domain was registered. Amazing, huh?
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
Despite the caliber, this gun is based on the same design as an AR-15 (the SIG516 is the 5.56mm version). It would need a different trigger group, fire selector, bolt, lower, and probably a few other things.
Could someone modify it? Sure, in theory. I mean anything that one person can make another can remake. However it would be serious work, and require knowing what the heel you were doing and it isn't like such information is something a legit gunsmith will give you.
Semi-auto ARs are quite popular, and quite legal (even in more restrictive countries, in Canada they are restricted but not prohibited). They are not things where you just remove a pin and they go full auto or something.
I found it odd that every time I ordered a horror DVD from Amazon, a zombie in a box showed up. At least it wasn't a zombie with a gun!
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
That's the designer/manufacturer/operator's fault. I.e. people.
And? Once the device is built whatever caused the state it's in, if it fails in a way the end user in incapable of having prevented with archaic expertise it's the fault of the device, and the production chain that led to the device, or the business climate that let it get created (see support for IE6), which ceases being the fault of the individual user, and the fault of many people involved in the chain, from regulators, to physical assembly and distribution.
I take exception to sensationalist reporting that blames the vehicle rather than the driver when the driver is clearly at fault
I think part of the problem is that like any software that fails, sometimes it's hard to tell if it's the user doing something stupid, or a flawed design or implementation, and since the media enjoys fear mongering anything that suggests the car you are driving might be unsafe is far more interesting than a person accidentally hitting the accelerator.
Then you get into broader cultural and societal issues. That we blinding accept speeding, or that the US accepts pervasive private gun ownership as a good idea all contribute to the statistical nature of problems. It's not so much that the car was designed to cause an accident, but someone made a deliberate choice that it only needed to pass whatever inspection regime, only needed to withstand whatever impact, that so many deaths due to accidental discharges, that so many deaths due to crazy people getting guns etc. etc. etc. are all acceptable. Societies as a whole (through governments) make deliberate choices that cars should only be sold if they meet particular criteria for example, there is, in that processes, the implicit acceptance that a certain number of people will die due to car failures that weren't the fault of the end user. Choosing that tolerance is an often buried part of governance.
Oh and people like to sue in the US, so if you can blame the car company and get millions it's like winning the lottery without the gambling.
I mean it is quite likely that a roving Wal-Mart snuck in to his house and loaded the gun when he wasn't looking. They are extremely stealthy like that.
Look man the GP's point was the weapon doesn't ship loaded and nobody had gone and loaded it. Nothing was going to happen.
Also, perhaps this is an argument for not being so scare of guns that you never learn about them. ARs are extremely easy to clear: Set the selector to safe, press the magazine release and remove the detachable magazine, pull the charging handle all the way back and while holding it back, press the slide lock. Then look in the chamber and make sure it is clear. If it is, release the slide lock, the bolt will go forward. The weapon is now clear. If you are still concerned, push out the two takedown pins, and the rifle will come apart in to two pieces. This is not some arcane knowledge that requires years of training, it is designed to be simple.
Finally, you can find all this out be RTFM. Guns come with manuals. They tell you how they work, how to safe them, how to clear them, how to take them apart to clean them, and so on. Even if you don't know how to use a particular gun, if you get one brand new, as this one was, it comes with a manual. The manuals for Sigs are very comprehensive. Oh, and should you wish to secure it, they come with a gun lock, again which the manual explains how to use. You lock it through the magazine and ejector port so the bolt can't close (and a magazine can't be inserted).
The GP's point was just that a gun shipped new in box is not something dangerous. It takes ammo (loaded in to it) to make it dangerous and that doesn't come with it. It turns out gun manufacturers aren't interested in their products going off accidentally, they are designed to be quite safe.
Sounds like they shipped the remote ahead of the TV. It's especially useful if you watch Fox.
You can have a firearm shipped to you provided:
1) You already legally owned the gun.
2) You sent it to a federally licensed gunsmith for work.
3) They sent it directly back to you.
4) You let the carrier know at the time of shipment that the package contains a firearm.
5) Nowhere on the package is there any marking that indicates it is a firearm.
6) You don't use the post office to do it.
If all those are true, it is legal to directly ship and receive a gun. However one of the parties has to be an FFL, just not both, and as I said it is only in the case that the non-FFL already owns the gun and is the initiator.
In that case FedEx or UPS will ship the gun for you. However they put the additional stipulation that you have to ship it priority overnight, no ground shipping.
I've done that with a pistol I have. I wanted a new trigger and sights installed, and the gunsmith I wished to use was not local. So I took it to FedEx (has to be a real FedEx location, not a Kinkos) told them it was a gun, paid my money, and off it went. Some time later, the gunsmith called to tell me it would be coming back and to schedule with me when I'd be there to receive the shipment. You need to make sure to verify it is a real FFL you are shipping to (the ATF has a site to do that).
For new weapons though, yes they have to go to an FFL in your state. I've done that too. Bought a SIG516 (the 5.56 version of this gun) and nobody around here had one (they are pretty popular). So I paid an out of state gun store for it, who shipped it to a local gun shop, which I then went to for the background check and pick up.
A .308 Winchester to be specific. That is the parent case. A 7.62 gun fires .308 ammo just fine. There are some minor specification differences, but they are the same round for most purposes.
In hunting you want a clean kill as you said, meaning a fast kill, which is "as humane as possible" since we usually (except for sadistic people) want to as best as possible avoid inflicting pain and suffering upon an animal (for that reason my personal animal suffering minimization strategy is not to shoot them in the first place). However, for military purposes, this is irrelevant. The 5.56x45mm is a very nasty thing to get hit with since it tends to fragment and cause awful internal injuries, and a slow death. It is actually advantageous to not inflict a quick kill, but rather to severely wound, the enemy in military combat, from what I understand (not an expert here). Read about the studies done in the Vietnam War era which is why they chose to switch from the 20 round .308 M1A to the 30 round 5.56 M16. The latter is considered to confer greater "firepower" and with less weight.
Yes...and that's the point. It's really nothing special. Just a standard semi-automatic rifle (not much different than any other varmint rifle).
But in DC it is illegal and near impossible to get one. And he did.... (Could of just kept his mouth shut. And when things hit the crapper in another decade, he'd have the means to keep himself and his neighbors safe.)
Could the moderators tell me exactly what part of this they found informative? The only piece of information in this that is even accurate is the bit about such guns being illegal in DC and that was from the post he was replying to. Yeah guns keep you safe, keep telling yourself that. Also fried chicken keeps you thin and computer games keep you tanned.
you must not understand americans then. we don't do shit for anyone else but ourselves. the editors don't spell words like colour, humour, recognise or theatre. there's no non-english language version of the site. there's no spain.slashdot.org or espana.slashdot.org. an overwhelming majority of news topics submitted take place or are centered around events in america or corporations based in america. when any amount of money is specified in a headline or summary it is almost always in american dollars. there are far more stories referring to politics in america than politics in any other country.
as of this writing, all of the stories on the slashdot homepage (before getting 'Many More') are about american people/companies/organizations/websites except for one regarding the indian government giving away cell phones to the poor. the fact that slashdot is registered and administered in america indicates a high probability that the site is us-centric. america is very ethno-centric, we teach it from kindergarten on up.
if this site is comprised of user-submitted news stories, and the majority of those users are american, then it's easy to see that the site is us-centric. there's a difference between saying the site is not us-centric and saying that non-american users are equally valid. the latter is probably what you meant. amazing, huh?
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
Yes, the Constitution forbids ex post facto laws (laws that punish actions committed before the law was passed), and this isn't the only law to have an exception for that reason.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
He got off 70 rounds and you're unimpressed with his firepower? I give up.
The most mistaken part of this story is the implication that you can just buy this gun on the internet *anywhere* and have it shipped to you. All firearms purchases across state lines must be done through a license firearms dealer, who will complete a federal background check. So yes, you can buy guns on the internet - but they get shipped to your local gun store, who charges you a fee to do the background check. NOT to your front door, unless you, too, happen to be a license firearms dealer.
Why does it really matter whether you call it a "civil union" or "marriage"? ... oops, I meant "assault weapon" or "assault rifle". [I'm all for gun rights, but I couldn't pass that one up :-)]
I can walk into any Radio Shack and buy the parts to turn a semiauto anything into a fully automatic, so what is your point? It is still illegal as all hell to do so.
Got Code?
He ordered the rifle but the wife showed when the package did and he got caught. Oh honey I ordered a TV really, they must have sent this by mistake.
Got Code?
What sort of person notifies a news organization when something like this happens?
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Why do you think you're being cute? The "assault weapon" label was invented exactly so the ignorant would confuse it with "assault rifle." Lobbyists purposefully conflating the two got common, innocuous bits of plastic banned as dangerous military hardware.
So, yes, it really matters. You should call out FUD when you see it, rather than remain complicit in the bullshit--especially when your representatives don't even know what they're banning or why.
DATABASE WOW WOW
I find killing a dozen people with tools made by others not impressive. And stupid, antisocial and crazy to boot.
If he had made the weapon himself or used his bare hands then I would have found it impressive, but still stupid, antisocial and crazy.
What he did didn't really involve skill, just a lack of a skill (empathy). Therefore it doesn't qualify for impressive in my book.
Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
Is that a 747 filled in the traditional way? Dead bodies can be stacked far more densely than living humans are usually stacked. Does it include the cargo hold?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
He could use the gun to get a TV at a bricks and mortar show. When I showed my gun to the bricks and mortar shop here (I am very proud of it) they were so awed they gave me a 100" plasma for free!
Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
My informant was the mother of a friend who went to one before WW2. She was posted to Egypt for much of the War and the skills she learned ensured an interesting social life.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
That's the designer/manufacturer/operator's fault. I.e. people.
And?.
And, you can't sue an inanimate object, but you can sue the idiot that designed/made/used it improperly.
Which is but one reason why blaming inanimate objects for the mistakes of those who design/create/use them is just blatant stupidity, no matter how you try and justify it.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
The deer population explosion is so out of hand in Virginia they should issue machine guns for deer hunting.
Take a look at the deer hunting bag limits in Virginia. When I was a kid, the big question was "will it be one buck or two for the [two week] season?" The idea of shooting a doe was out of the question. Now it's more like "how many antlerless deer MUST I shoot before I can shoot a buck?" From the URL:
The bag limit for deer shall be two a day, six a license year. Of the six deer limit, no more than three may be antlered deer and at least three must be antlerless deer.
The season in Hanover is 100% antlered or antlerless, November 17 through January 5. In some localities you can 'Earn A Buck' by whacking does. In addition, you can get crop damage and other sorts of Bonus Deer Permits that permit you to exceed the season bag limit.
If my math is correct, there are 181 hunting days between all of the special seasons statewide. If I were infinitely wealthy and took advantage of every single day of legal hunting and bonus deer tags, I could take 2 deer a day for a total of 362 deer a season!
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
Except most of the stories are not US Centric, they are international. With international stories and userbase, how is /. us centric? It isn't. It's just administered in the US.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
you want so much to believe that you're right that you will completely ignore reason. i just listed several compelling reasons why /. is us-centric. you are completely wrong, most of the stories are not international. some stories are. and some of those are still us-centric. when a story is about us hackers attacking iran nuclear facilities with a virus, the story is not about iran. when a story is about a kiwi filesharing website owner being harassed by the fbi and facing charges in the us, the story is not about new zealand. you fail.
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
you must not understand americans then. we don't do shit for anyone else but ourselves. the editors don't spell words like colour, humour, recognise or theatre. there's no non-english language version of the site. there's no spain.slashdot.org or espana.slashdot.org. an overwhelming majority of news topics submitted take place or are centered around events in america or corporations based in america. when any amount of money is specified in a headline or summary it is almost always in american dollars. there are far more stories referring to politics in america than politics in any other country.
There's a Japanese Slashdot:
http://slashdot.jp/
For those unaware, an assault rifle is a firearm capable of firing in a fully automatic mode, as opposed to semi-automatic or single-action. Furthermore, the most common round used in assault rifles is a pittance, it is a .22 caliber bullet (granted with a lot more power and better aerodynamics than the .22 LR you shoot in Boy Scouts). But even with all that it is considered pitiful, not much more than a varmint round.
Here in Pennsylvania it is illegal to hunt dear with a .223 caliber because it is not considered powerful enough to ensure a clean kill. In fact, those evil high caliber rounds are often half the size of a hunting cartridge.
So where does the term "high power" stem from? Not the cartridge itself. But the capacity of the firearm. Essentially, you had a 45 caliber semi-automatic designed by the Revered John Moses Browning. This held about 8 rounds. They're big short fat stubby rounds. 8 rounds of firepower was two more than the average revolver. The Revered than creating the Browning Hi-Power using a much smaller 9mm round. The result was a capacity of 15-19 rounds. Hence hi-power simply mean greater capacity, often related to small, weaker, less powerful bullets.
In fact, the current .223 round used in M16/M4/AR15 (semi-automatic version) is essentially considered the smallest, weakest, bare minimum rifle round that can ensure a reasonable expectation of success. Compared to what gramps used in WWII or worse, WWI, it's laughable - unless you're shot by one of course.
I don't think you don't know what you are talking about. High power in the pistol that it seems clear you are talking about is the difference between the 45 caliber black power cartridge and the at the time new smokeless powder - which was considered high power. It was and is high power and is what makes a firearm a firearm today. I.e. I can still buy a black powder gun through the mail. You can't buy a firearm through the mail. Smokeless powerder used in the old black power guns can destroy them. I had an instructor that had one of those browning pistols, still in the box with the high power label on it. Should have bought it when I had the chance, about 30 years ago.
High power in rifles is totally different. I shot high power rifle for years. A 223 isn't considered high power unless they've changed the rules. Never the less, the 223 isn't to be laughed at. It is a very effective load and does a good job for what it was designed for. In fact, I own a M1 Rifle and I'm thinking of getting rid of it. It just isn't practical side of the other rifles I own. My shoulder will like getting rid of it too.
Some people have all the luck.
I opened an unexpected package via UPS once and it was a very nice set of Adams Tightlies. I have to admit I was very tempted to move them into my sports equipment locker. :) But I called UPS and reported it. When they picked it up they didn't even say "thank you".
According to the summary, the weapon is capable of mowing down pretty much anything all by itself.
That would explain the problem if he was trying to buy a lawn tractor and got a gun instead.
God spoke to me
On the television series American Gun they demonstrated a spring loaded stock that allowed the rest of the AR-15 to recoil into the stock and away from your trigger finger, when the gun, and trigger, recoiled back against your finger the trigger was pulled and the rifle fired again. The rifle only fired once per trigger pull but springing action pulled it five times per second. That's about half of a full auto M16 but still it looks the same and as far as I know legal.
Why are you my freak?
http://slashdot.org/~Z34107/foes
Let's not forget that many movies show silencers on revolvers. Regardless of the fact that silences do not work on revolvers excepting the Russian Nagant revolver with special rounds.
Hollywood should not be one's education tool for policy.
Actually, in D.C., no they cannot....
Oh, as for what good is an assault weapon? Ask the Korean shop keeper who kept his family and store safe during the Los Angelos riots.
I'm not ignoring reason, it's just that your "compelling reasons" are wrong. Keep thinking what you like, while a casual glance at the front page shows the international scope of the site.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.