In Vietnam: Being a Blogger Could Land You In Jail, Cost You Your Life

An anonymous reader writes "Bloggers in Vietnam are increasingly finding themselves thrown in jail. Despite freedom of speech being enshrined in the nation's Constitution, many who speak out against the government are thrown in jail — thanks to a new law that forbids such talk. In one desperate act, Dang Thi Kim Lieng lit herself on fire outside the Bac Lieu People's Committee building in southern Vietnam. She died of her injuries. She was protesting the detention of her daughter who was arrested for blogging against the government. Three other bloggers are scheduled be tried under section 88 of the criminal code, which relates to propaganda against the nation. A maximum sentence could carry with it 20 years in jail."

Comments

"Sounds like the United States"

[hawks5999]

Julian Assange was overheard to say.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, in the United States, you don't even have to be a resident to break the laws.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[Sarten-X]

And yet you can blithely say that, posting logged in to your account, with full knowledge that your IP address and user agent string are being logged, and yet still have no fear that the US government will ever come hunting you down for your disparaging remarks.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[Hatta]

We're not just talking about Assange. We're talking about thousands of Americans who took to the streets last year to exercise their constitutional right to peaceably assemble. Over 7000 people have been arrested as part of OWS, including Presidential candidate Jill Stein.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[Hatta]

still have no fear that the US government will ever come hunting you down for your disparaging remarks.

Yet. If we engage in other constitutionally protected rights, such as the right to peaceably assemble, we can reasonably expect to be arrested for it. Thousands of people already have been.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[CanHasDIY]

And yet you can blithely say that, posting logged in to your account, with full knowledge that your IP address and user agent string are being logged, and yet still have no fear that the US government will ever come hunting you down for your disparaging remarks.

Spoken like someone who's never tried confronting an American politician or candidate with an opinion they don't care for, in person.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[Hatta]

When the revolution is authoritarian, I'm proud to be reactionary. I want to take us back to a time when the Constitution was respected, and the law applied to rich and poor alike. When warrantless anything was unconscionable. When torture was punished no matter who the torturer was. When the rule of law still meant something.

Obama delivered big on the change, not so much on the hope.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[Doctor_Jest]

Or this:

http://www.copblock.org/858/alaska-troopers-assault-man-with-anti-obama-sign/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6512746

Free speech knows no party affiliation. Free speech suppression is universal by both Donkey and Elephant...

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[Anonymous Coward]

still have no fear that the US government will ever come hunting you down for your disparaging remarks.

Yet. If we engage in other constitutionally protected rights, such as the right to peaceably assemble, we can reasonably expect to be arrested for it. Thousands of people already have been.

Arrested, and then free within a few hours. Vietnamese people are being thrown in prison for TWENTY YEARS, for writing on the internet. I think it is perhaps a bit egotistical to think you have problems worth mentioning in comparison. STFU?

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[Sarten-X]

A candidate for the U.S. Senate was in town for a discussion panel for which I was running sound (since I volunteer as an audio technician). After the panel, she came out on stage where I was coiling cables, and we had a lovely discussion on labor unions. We presented our positions, discussed the merits and shortcomings of union power, and eventually conceded that both employers and unions too often behave like infants. It was an insightful and interesting conversation.

This is one of several similar encounters I've had over the years, though the majority of discussions I've fallen into were with more local politicians. I doubt I could say I've "confronted" any of them, because I'm not going to go out of my way to be confrontational. Though it seems popular now to call any gaudy spectacle with a political motive a "protest", I prefer to submit my protests in a more effective and less offensive manner: calm and polite discourse.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[shutdown -p now]

Back in Soviet days, an American tourist in Moscow decided to find out whether everything that was being said about USSR in American newspapers is true. So he stopped a passer-by and asked him if he has freedom of speech.

"What's freedom of speech?", the Russian asked.

"Well, for example, I can go straight to White House in Washington, and shout 'Reagan is an asshole', and nothing whatsoever will happen to me - that's freedom of speech."

"Oh, in that case, we have freedom of speech, too. I can go straight to the middle of the Red Square, and shout 'Reagan is an asshole' to my heart's content - and nothing whatsoever will happen to me, either."

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[Anonymous Coward]

Spoken like someone who's never tried confronting an American politician or candidate [progressive.org] with an opinion [niemanwatchdog.org] they don't care for, [pjmedia.com] in person

Freedom of speech doesn't guarantee you a specific audience or venue, nor does it offer protection when you force it.

Write an open letter to the politician with your grievances and publish it. When you get arrested for doing that, you'll have a legitimate gripe. If you just get ignored by everyone, that's probably a sign that your message wasn't particularly important and you were just being a jackass when you tried to force people to listen to you.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[TranquilVoid]

The problem would have ended and would have been very unlikely to repeat.

I disagree on both counts. Given that Assange was in a country that was a firm U.S. ally then declaring war (missiles into a sovereign country) would create far more problems than it would solve. Admittedly it is debated, but U.S. interference encouraged terrorism, and in fact, the very leaks you are proposing even more heavy-handedness would stop.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[hairyfeet]

Uhhh...the US government covered up for a PMC that was SELLING LITTLE KIDS to get better arms deals. Oh and that was the SECOND TIME they had been caught pulling that shit, the first was in Kosovo.

I'm sorry but your right to get on a high horse dies when you cover up for child rapists, the end.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[jkflying]

He isn't inside the US, and isn't a citizen of the US, therefore he can't be a traitor for releasing documents on the US, even if the US wanted them kept secret.

Yes, they probably should have asked the datacenter to disconnect him, however even if they had agreed, as the datacenter probably had a contract with Wikileaks, the local court could have ordered them to resume service. That's what happens when another country makes demands somewhere they don't have any sovereignty, people don't tend to listen. How would you feel if Spain suddenly decided that the website you are hosting says things that they would rather keep secret, so they threaten to send missiles in if you won't remove the site? You'd probably laugh them off. Well, Europe feels much the same about the US.

Following a refusal with missiles probably would have caused several embargos on the US from around the world. Certainly from Europe, South America, and Australia. I suspect a lot of countries would start refusing entry for US tourists, and the resultant backlash from the US population on whoever ordered the attacks would be enormous. Mostly, however, it would make Assange a martyr, which is the last thing the US wants. Right now he is a loner with sex scandal charges hanging over him. Take him out, and thousands will rise up in his place.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[jkflying]

Assange is leaking military secrets intended to kill US servicemen in a war authorized by our Congress

You are an idiot if you think he is doing it to try to kill servicemen. And I hate the name servicemen, it sounds like plumbers and carpenters. Call them what they are: soldiers. Be honest and stop trying to give them a nice name. They kill for a living, and they accept the risk of death as part of their occupational hazards.

Nothing he has leaked has resulted in anybody dying. So your entire argument is invalid.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[jkflying]

They're still classified IN THE U.S. The rest of the world couldn't care less what the US thinks should be classified, even if they will toady to the US a bit because they want the US to buy their stuff.

Re:"Sounds like the United States"

[jkflying]

Congress and the American People serve as the check on our government.

Congress and the American People can only serve as a check if they have the information which will enable them to form a correct opinion. Wikileaks provides this information. The government classifies anything which might otherwise upset the people or cause bigwigs in fancy government offices to lose their jobs, creating the need for an entity like Wikileaks to exist in the first place.

freedom of speech: Vietnam Edition

[v1]

You're free to talk about anything you want to. Unless we don't like what you say, in which case we will lock you up or kill you. Have a nice day.

Funny how governments (usually of the oppressive variety) are deathly scared of people voicing their opinions of them or outing them publicly.

Just how oppressive is Vientnam's government? That's not one I usually hear tossed around with Cuba, North Korea etc. IMHO any government that makes it a crime to speak negatively in public about the government, ruling party, president, or king, is oppressive just from that alone.

Re:freedom of speech: Vietnam Edition

[_merlin]

You have to be somewhat subtle about political commentary. You can't just print it on the front page of the newspaper. However, there are certain soap operas on TV that are obviously thinly veiled criticism of government figures and policies. Corruption is rife, there's a bit gap between the richest and the poorest, health care is expensive but it doesn't bankrupt anyone, they're even stricter on drug crimes than US (death penalty for possession of over 500g). It's not a bad place to live if it's where you want to live, just different trade-offs.

Lame title

[noh8rz7]

The title of the post should be, "In Vietnam: being a blogger could land you in jail; setting yourself on fire could cost you your life".

Re:Where is the Supreme Court?

[Fned]

"Dammit! I KNEW we forgot something...."

- Vietnamese Constitution authors

Misleading Title

[Dean Edmonds]

The title of this article claims that being a blogger in Vietnam could cost you your life. But the only person to lose their life was a non-blogger who set herself on fire in protest at the new law. So a more accurate title would be, "In Vietnam: Being a Blogger Could Land You In Jail. Setting Yourself On Fire Could Cost You Your Life".

Re:I say

[mehaiku]

We could bring Freedom
And Democracy to them
If they had some oil

Western Governments do this too

[CuteSteveJobs]

In the West jailing people for criticising the government would be unpopular, so they find more subtle but equally effective ways to do it. These silence not just bloggers, but journalists too: The easiest of these is libel laws. US Citizens are lucky that their Right to Free Speech is enshrined in the Constitution, but citizens in other supposedly liberal democracies have no such protection.

Libel Law: "In theory, the objective of defamation laws is to balance protection of individual reputation with freedom of expression. In practice, defamation laws are frequently used as a means of chilling speech. A threat of (costly) defamation proceedings and damages, whether or not a plaintiff's claim is likely to be upheld by a court, is often used to silence criticism not only by a particular person or group but also as a threat to others."
https://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Censor/defamation.html

The UK defamation bill will do little to stop corporations suing individuals and should include a public interest defence
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/jun/27/libel-reform-get-right-defamation-bill

UK Libel reform campaigners demand better public interest defence
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/jun/27/libel-reform-campaigners-public-interest-defence

It doesn't affect only bloggers: Even journalists are restricted by what they can say:
http://www.thenewsmanual.net/Resources/medialaw_in_australia_02.html

Explanation of UK Libel Law
http://www.urban75.org/info/libel.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law

The Australian Journalist's Defamation Checklist: Can you run this story?
http://www.hss.bond.edu.au/defamkit/

And if they report something embarassing to the Government, then it is jail time:
http://www.thenewsmanual.net/Resources/medialaw_in_australia_06.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Secrets_Act
http://www.caslon.com.au/secrecyguide4.htm

The government redacted 90% of the recent proposal to snoop on Internet Usage. You would think the public have a right to know, but it's National Security if they say it is:
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/no-minister-90-of-web-snoop-document-censored-to-stop--premature-unnecessary-debate-20100722-10mxo.html

Re:Waiting for the repenting...

[Black Parrot]

hindsight is always 20/20

It didn't take much hindsight to realize that the USA took over a failed French colonial war. And tried to prop a brutal dictator.

It also doesn't take much wit to find a few basic facts with Teh Google, though you've apparently only got half enough.

Re:Where is the Supreme Court?

[shutdown -p now]

Freedom of speech was also enshrined in the constitution of the USSR (even the one that was enacted under Stalin in 1933), and is enshrined today in the constitution of China.

Any constitution is just a piece of paper, unless enough people believe otherwise, and unless those people are willing to act on their beliefs.

Re:Where is the Supreme Court?

[RabidReindeer]

Ever read the Constitution of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR)? It was quite high-minded.

Sometimes a constitution is just a piece of paper.

The number of heartless assholes on Slashdot...

[Areyoukiddingme]

The number of heartless assholes on Slashdot really boggle my mind.

You're posting to correct the headline, because it was the blogger's mother who died of burns, not the blogger? Really? THAT is what you want to talk about?

It used to be that self-immolation actually caused people to wake up and do something about a massive injustice, with the support of all onlookers. Now you want to sit and quibble about the fucking headline. Somebody burned herself to death in protest of the unjust imprisonment of her daughter and you assholes are arguing over whether or not Viet Nam War protestors in the US are traitors.

I hate you all.

Not just the USA, Holland too

[SmallFurryCreature]

The Russian girl group Pussy Riot is in jail for daring to challenge Poetin during a protest.

The Dutch government is protesting. But a Dutch protester who threw a small candle (the kind that go under tea pots) against the golden carriage carrying the queen has been in jail for two years.

And no, minor acts of vandalism are NOT typically sentenced like this. Throw ice-balls causing damage to cars and you don't even get arrested. But dare to do it against the absolute ruler and BAM, in jail for two years.

Democracy, you say you have it, so you don't have to do it.

Re:How come no protest from USA ?

[mcgrew]

But when Vietnam did that, USA just keep quite, very very quite

Quite what? Don't keep us in suspense, man!