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Detecting Depression From How (Not What) You Browse
New submitter FreedomFirstThenPeac writes "Apparently we can diagnose you as depressed if the mechanics of your internet use fit certain patterns. By using a cleverly embedded questionnaire that classifies the subject as depressed, and by using existing net usage data collection to collect features (variables), researchers at the Missouri University of Science and Technology were able to correctly predict the diagnoses of the questionnaire using the net usage data (PDF). I wonder if this could be a new Firefox plug-in, designed to help parents detect depression in their adolescents by tracking the mechanics (not the sites) and automatically emailing them if their ward is showing increasing signs of depression."
It turns out that very specific patterns of internet use are reliably related to depressive tendencies. For example, peer-to-peer file sharing, heavy emailing and chatting online, and a tendency to quickly switch between multiple websites and other online resources all predict a greater propensity to experience symptoms of depression. Although the exact reasons that these behaviors predict depression is unknown, each behavior corresponds with previous research on depression. Quickly switching between websites may reflect anhedonia (a decreased ability to experience emotions), as people desperately seek for emotional stimulation. Similarly, excessive emailing and chatting may signify a relative lack of strong face-to-face relationships, as people strive to maintain contact either with faraway friends or new people met online.
Sounds like it's easy to dismiss on first glance. How do you define heavy emailing? Heavy emailing could be a symptom of a job that demands good communication skills -- which would you lead you to believe that the person is not depressed and functioning normally.
.....to email my mother more often?
Reloading messages.pl more than once an hour...
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
I've noticed a correlation between getting depressed and reading dupes.
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I don't usually reply to gweihir (88907) either. So there.
The problem is that those suffering from depression may do a lot, even subconsciously, to cover some of the obvious signs of depression from those closest to them. Add on to the fact that most people don't know enough about the signs of depression and it can be hard at times to easily recognize them.
Secondly, I'm ready to dismiss you and your idea without further discussion just for the fact that your skills in reading comprehension are severely lacking to the point that the basic premise of the article has completely escaped you. This has nothing to do with WHAT you're browsing, there is no checking a browser history, this was simply about HOW you use the internet could help determine the possibility of being depressed. Even if it isn't practical for parents to use, it's still an interesting idea nonetheless.
I would prefer to see someone research radical changing of desktop configurations possibly indicating brain aneurysms. I have noticed twice in my working career that people that suddenly change their background color to something like magenta, or fiddle around with the size of their text non-stop (aka one day they contact support because the text is too small, next day they contact support because the text is too big.) end up within 6 months being in the hospital because of a brain aneurysm. No Joke.
Depression is real. There are chemical and electrical changes in the brain.
People like you are why I am still so fucked up. My parents thought like you. When I was a kid I went to a doctor for bronchitis and he told my father that he thought I was depressed. The response was to be yelled at and threatened to be kicked out of the house, which eventually happened. Before I was kicked out my 'treatment' was to talk with a 'life coach' friend of his about my attitude. A psychologist or therapist was never considered because that was pseudoscience to him.
Fast forward 15 years and I was diagnosed with depression, BPD, BDD, and social phobia. This is shit that could have been treated more effectively when I was young. It is shit that the longer you have it the harder it is to change your course. It is also shit that would have been covered under my parent's insurance plans.
Yep, telling your kid that they're failures has always been a great way to turn them into educated, stable, confident adults.
You have to remember to beat them too.
The path out of depression has been well documented in Dr. Martin Seligman's book Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life. He has spent 30 years of his life in the field of positive psychology and has multiple case studies showing how people can get over "learned helplessness" in all three realms of personal, pervasive and permanent.
http://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-Mind/dp/1400078393/
He has a talk on Ted:
http://www.ted.com/talks/martin_seligman_on_the_state_of_psychology.html
And a website with some questionnaires:
http://www.authentichappiness.sas.upenn.edu/Default.aspx
To use Chris Farley, who unfortunately committed suicide due to depression, as an example I provide three typical phrases that he would use in his work:
Personal: I suck!
Pervasive: Everything sucks!
Permanent: It will always suck!
Please note that motivational speakers are typically all optimists and people who are unmotivated go to them for a "motivational fix" which lasts for about two weeks without optimism to back it. See also the typical person who starts a diet, exercise regimen or other self improvement plan.
"Giving money and power to governments is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys." - P.J. O'Rourke
No not subconsciously, we hide those signs on purpose. People don't want to be around others that are depressed because frankly it's depressing and we know it. If we let our symptoms show everyone will ignore us (which we feel they already do anyway) and we'll be even more alone and more depressed. People also aren't understanding and are quite rude: "Yeah I dropped my ice cream once and was really sad, then I decided to be awesome instead. Stop being depressed and be awesome!" To someone who's actually depressed and not simply sad, that statement is simply a huge FUCK YOU YOU LAZY ASSHOLE and reinforces the belief that we suck and should die because we can't get better and never will. So why struggle through life at all?
We also don't want people bugging us: "Are you feeling better now?", "Isn't this [current activity] fun?", "You should smile more", etc... "What is your favorite [anything]" or "What do you enjoy doing?" are also horrible questions. I don't enjoy doing anything as I feel like a worthless piece of shit and can't feel happy thus nothing is fun. How am I supposed to come up with a favorite anything when everything is a chore?
Some of us don't want to drag down those closest to them (assuming there is anyone still close after we've slowly pushed everyone else away by being a buzz kill and a downer). I don't want my parents thinking they've screwed up and it's their fault I'm depressed, but I also don't want them bugging me about it or worry about me. I'd feel even worse for making them worry.
If you want to know more about what it feels like to be depressed, checkout this web comic (especially #69 "How Are you?"). Someone at /. referred me to it: http://depressioncomix.tumblr.com/ It's very good.
P.S. I told someone I was depressed last week. She didn't believe me and said she couldn't tell if I was joking because I'm very hard to read. I'm hard to read because my emotions are gone. There's nothing to read. In the past she's even said multiple times that I should smile more. Aren't those two things clues? I'm in college and many people tell me I'm hard to read and should smile more. Some advice: If you find someone who never smiles and is hard to read, you're probably trying too hard to read them.
I was going to start taking antidepressants in the fall, but I made the mistake of starting to read Anatomy of an Epidemic. Now I don't know how to get my life back together. I've been depressed since I hit the double digits; about 1.5 decades ago :'(
OK, dismiss the AC above for not reading the article carefully.
I did. I get that it's about browsing patterns and style, not browser history.
Now how about you explain to me why a parent who needs a computer to tell them that their child is suffering from depression, is doing a good job of staying involved with their child's emotional condition? Hiding depression from strangers and casual acquaintances and even classmates/coworkers is easy. I know. Hiding it from someone who has known you your entire life, whom you live with... not so much. If parents don't know enough about the signs of depression to recognize them in their child... how does that not fall under "failing as a parent"?
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Yep, telling your kid that they're failures has always been a great way to turn them into educated, stable, confident adults.
Ttelling them they are smart and winners is at least as bad. The best current advice seems to be to tell them that failing is part of the process of succeeding and is nothing to be ashamed of.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I was going to start taking antidepressants in the fall, but I made the mistake of starting to read Anatomy of an Epidemic. Now I don't know how to get my life back together. I've been depressed since I hit the double digits; about 1.5 decades ago :'(
People are very vocal about horror stories, but success stories don't get as much attention. I started taking antidepressants (Prozac and Wellbutrin) last year after about five years of depression, and have been feeling much better since then with minimal side effects. There are lots of different drugs, so if you have trouble with side effects from one you can try switching to another. You should also find a good therapist whether you take medication or not. If you have a primary care physician, they can also provide information and advice, and might be able to prescribe antidepressants if you can't find or afford a psychiatrist that you like/trust enough.
Please don't condemn yourself to another 15 years of depression because of a pop science book. I can almost guarantee you that staying mentally ill will be worse for your body than any hypothetical consequences from taking antidepressants.
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"It looks like you're depressed. Would you like help with:"
[ ] Slitting your wrists.
[ ] Weeping morosely into a pint of beer.
[ ] Retreating into an endless cycle of binge eating and self-hatred.
[ ] Getting professional help.
I still wonder if medicine has the cause-and-effect mixed up a bit. The chemicals in the brain can be reactive, and higher levels of any of them could be a symptom of something else. The brain manufactures its own serotonin, so any increase or decrease must also have a cause. These chemical levels should not be viewed in isolation.
Based on my own experience, I tend to think that the changes had a psychological cause, and so one should attempt a psychological treatment as a first option.
Obviously every case is different, so I'm not saying drugs aren't necessary for some. But treating the chemical imbalance as if it is the cause just seems wrong to me. It doesn't answer the question of where these chemicals come from (the brain makes them) and why (something causes the brain to make more).
A normal, healthy brain regulates its own chemicals and neurons etc.
A depressed brain tends to have a negative feedback loop where something triggers a drop in serotonin (or other chemicals) and that in turn makes you "sad", which then results in a further drop in seroronin, and so on. When you are actually depressed, the initial cause is probably long gone, and sometimes it may need external help to re-stabilise everything (although I never got that far along, I always seemed to restabilise naturally after a few weeks. the exhaustion tended to allow my body/brain to recover). I'm not an expert in it so I can only go by my experience.
Eventually you start to become aware of some of the "triggers" that set you off, and once you recognise them, you can start to work around them. Your brain forms pathways, and it is just like tracks in soft dirt I suppose (not literally). The more times you take that path, the deeper the rut becomes, making it harder to take a different path next time. But you can use this same principle to your advantage. When you sense that you are heading down the wrong pathway, try focussing on positive, self-reassuring things, and see if you can focus on your good qualities and things you are proud of yourself for. You may have heard people talk about re-wiring your brain - that is effectively what this positive thinking can do. You form new neural pathways by the way you think, but naturally your brain forms habits and if you have pathways leading to depression it will default to those pathways. It is not an easy task trying to change this, and you should not expect it to be easy.
I live by the motto that nothing worthwhile in life is ever easy.
For me it was positive self-talk, and regular contact with friends that really helped. It isn't a miracle cure, but once you find something that makes you feel good about yourself, keep working on it. Celebrate your wins, and ignore/forget your losses. By this I mean, make it a big deal if you experience something positive, but don't beat yourself up if you fail. I also tackled some tasks that I had previously thought I could never do (public speaking, making new friends, etc) and I was able to focus on my successes and use those as a strength to look back on and be proud of myself. From there I found that when I came across difficulty and found myself sinking, I could turn the situation around by thinking positive (eg. 'I can do it, I've done it before, I'm stronger than this, I know I can win' etc).
The goal is to truly believe in yourself, and not require external feedback in order to feel good about yourself. It is difficult, and you may never master it, but remember that every win is one less loss, and a part of a better life.
It's good to know the science behind it, but I don't think medical science can find all the answers without acknowledging the role of psychologists and counsellors.
This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
If I had mod points, this post would be getting them.
This dude is absolutely right. It's absolutely worth it to muster up all the will power and motivation you have to seeing a doctor and working with them to find medication that works for you without giving you more problems than you started off with. Once I willed myself into actually getting some help my doctor and I managed to quite quickly find a drug and dosage that actually worked for me. I wouldn't say I was depression free, but I found it much easier to deal with. The only side effects I got were a decrease in libido (and as I haven't gotten any in some years, it was actually kinda welcome) and some really vivid dreams, which were actually kinda cool.
There are lots of different drugs, so if you have trouble with side effects from one you can try switching to another.
Here's where it gets shitty. The trial and error period makes it easy to give in to despair and quit entirely. You've got to steel yourself and push through it. I'm in the shitty situation at the moment where the medication I've been taking has stopped working. We've tried an increased dose, but alas, no improvement. It's been a while since I've seen my doctor (I want to see my doctor, not some arsehole who doesn't know me...) and I've sunk back into a fairly dark place. I've lost a lot of my support base recently and I just feel like I'm never going to not feel like shit. It's going to take some serious effort on my part to push through this test phase again.
You should also find a good therapist whether you take medication or not. If you have a primary care physician, they can also provide information and advice, and might be able to prescribe antidepressants if you can't find or afford a psychiatrist that you like/trust enough.
Therapy works wonders for some, but god dammit, it's even more taxing on your mental state to find one that actually works for you. You spend a session bringing up all your anguish and painful memories, the tell you nothing of value or just ask how it makes you feel (I have depression, it makes me feel like a sack of shit) and then your time is up and they send you away with all that shit you brought up running circles in your mind and nothing to comfort you. It can be the most crushing and demoralising thing.
That probably doesn't make you want to go see a therapist. It's not my intention to scare you out of it, but more to warn you so you can take steps to mitigate the effects of a bad therapy session. Try to catch up with friends you enjoy being with some time after the session. Not immediately after, but a few hours after. Go do something you enjoy. Go to your favorite bakery. Anything. Try to find something to look forward to after the session. If the session goes well, fucking awesome! You can celebrate with some kick-ass cake. If it doesn't, well at least there's still kick-ass cake.
If you have a bad session, take some time before you try another therapist and try to lose any jaded and cynical feelings you may have towards them.
Please don't condemn yourself to another 15 years of depression because of a pop science book. I can almost guarantee you that staying mentally ill will be worse for your body than any hypothetical consequences from taking antidepressants.
I hope my post hasn't scared you out of seeking help. It's absolutely worth it to give these things a shot. But I also think it's worth knowing that it isn't always easy, and when things don't go right they can just make you feel so much worse, but also that you can do things to lessen the extent to which it can do so. I kind of want to delete this entire thing because, well, maybe I'm hurting, not helping, and frankly who would want to read anything I have to say? But maybe that's my depression getting the better of me... fuck it. This can be my victory for today.
I'm not sure, seeing as you're posting as an AC, if you'll ever see this. I spent a large portion of my late teens and early twenties slowly cycling through periods of depression and happiness. it was somewhat seasonal, with winters being especially hard, and a burst of energy happening in the spring, but for the most part, the low times hit when they wanted. It drove me nuts, left me feeling worthless, and no matter how hard i felt i was trying, it felt like I couldn't do enough. I'd spend hours channel surfing or playing flash games, just to kill time and stave off bordom and sadness. Thing is, that just fed into it more. So I'm not a therapist, and my advice is anecdotal, but maybe it'll help you.
After breaking up with a girl for the second time, I hit bottom so hard that I think i bounced. It gave me the energy to get back to grad school, which i had been planning on, with no real planning effort, for four years. Getting into grad school wasn't the change, but it has helped. The change was that I ended up in a position that lacked the safety nets that I had surrounded myself with. With the support of my family and friends, I moved to a new city, that lacked both family and friends. I moved in with roommates to make sure that I wasn't constantly alone, and while they are nice, they aren't as good as my old friends. But here's the change. The lack of my friends and family left me completely raw. I had no one to hide with, no one to tell me that i wasn't insane, and that of course I'm doing the best I can. It wasn't easy, it wasn't fun. It was raw though. It meant I had to deal with myself, by myself. It did, however, offer the chance to change these things about myself without having to prove it to anyone else. If i found something I didn't like, it wasn't a part of the "me, here." So that's part of it.
The part that really helped, and I think most people could benefit from regardless, is to let yourself be bored. Moving out here, I lost television. We couldnt afford cable, and decided to go without it. On top of this, my computer died on the trip. It was terrible. I still had access to email through my phone, but the interface was terrible, and made the whole experience unpleasant. There was no channel surfing or website surfing available. I spent a day or two in absolute, painful boredom, before getting fed up and starting to find things to do around the house. I started cleaning my room, taking the time to actually fold stuff and put it away. I took the time to clean up my bike, to take the time to do basic maintenance - simple stuff, oil the chain, replace a flat. I had ample free time now, so I would waste it by walking to the store instead of driving (i only live about a half mile from it, so i should be walking anyway...) A strange thing happened. I started to get more and more done, the more busy I was. By allowing myself to get truly bored, I was forced to confront it and do something about it. For about 4 years, that was spent playing exceptionally bad casual games and masturbating. Those left me feeling slightly less bored but never really stopped it. they just took the edge off. This new life... this felt good.
It may not cure your depression, but I cannot imagine that getting rid of the things that let you wallow in boredom would hurt. There's a difference between winding down and tuning out. tune in and wind down. It feels amazing.
Best of luck
captcha: remorse. Not that I feel any today.
I do watch for responses to my posts (not that anyone can tell it's the same AC).
I used to waste tons of time watching TV and playing video games. Eventually the games were no longer fun and I started feeling bad when playing them as I knew there were more important things that needed to get done. As for TV, I ended up watching everything I wanted to watch. Every sifi show (STs, A, FS, SGs, B5, etc...) except BG, all the old shows I watched as a kid, and tons of movies. I watch much less movies now, but still a few per week. I used to regularly do two a day! I slept between 3-6 hours a day. That's how I could not fail out of school yet still waste so much time. I've been trying to turn this bad habit into something more productive. Moving away from fiction and going towards documentaries and audio books. When listening to audio books, I find it easier to do normal tasks around the apartment (cleaning, cooking, etc...).
I never hit a rock bottom; just failed at suicide and wandered around. My suicide attempt was through starvation and dehydration and I went long enough to pass out from it (2.5 days). You can't get more lazy than that. After getting fired for coming in late to work, I eventually got accepted to a grad program (wanting to move out of my parents house gave me that energy). I don't have family support and don't talk enough to have supporting friends (though it is harder for me to say I have no friends, I might now). I speak very little to any of my current or past roommates. Sometimes I hide in my room and skip dinner to avoid them (I don't know why). After that suicide attempt, going hungry no longer bothers me. What I'm getting at is that I never hide with anyone except myself. I'm the only one who looks out for me.
You're right that tuning in and winding down instead of down and out is better, but that's been such a hard habit to reform.
Thanks for posting, and everyone else too.
I took Wellbutrin back in 2000 because my insurance company would cover that, but not Zyban. After about a week, I was ready to crawl out of my skin. I thought people were plotting against me and were coming to get me. That experience has biased me against antidepressants.
Ouch! Wellbutrin made me a little anxious for a few months, but nothing that bad. Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. You (and others reading this) should know that Wellbutrin (bupropion) is kind of a weird antidepressant. It works on norepinephrine and dopamine, which is very different from e.g. SSRIs. Antidepressants are a pretty broad category of drugs. As another AC below noted, you do have to go through the trial and error process. I went on Wellbutrin to deal with SSRI sexual side effects, and tried clonazepam and lorazepam to counter the anxiety. They made me too lethargic, so I just waited the anxiety out. Had it been too bothersome, I might have had to try something else. It all depends on what side effects you get and which ones you're willing to put up with.
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The issues with antidepressants aren't just hypothetical. The FDA found reports of suicide associated with antidepressant use serious enough to include a "black box" warning to the effect that antidepressants can cause an increase in suicidal thinking.
I was talking about the book he mentioned (Anatomy of an Epidemic). Note that the black box warning only applies to people under 24 years of age.
Another issue- when given to people with bipolar disorder, antidepressants can actually cause mania, and some researchers believe this can cause the disorder to actually get worse over time ... Another issue is that antidepressants can cause what they call discontinuation syndrome- that is, withdrawal effects.
To add to this, if you go on medication it is very important to follow up with your psychiatrist regularly. In particular, do not abruptly stop taking your meds. Call your doctor first. This applies to any prescription drug, not just antidepressants.
I'm not saying you should never take antidepressants, but these are very powerful chemicals we're talking about, so you really need to be careful. That means be sure you're working with a good psychiatrist, not your primary care physician, who simply does not have the know-how to diagnose and treat serious mental illnesses. That means doing a lot of reading as well- educate yourself about what you're up against and what the treatments are.
I agree with this 100%. You are responsible for your own health. Only you can decide what risks and side effects are acceptable. Personally, I find years or decades of misery to be a much worse option, but everyone has to make that choice for themselves.
And it's a good idea to consider the various alternative/complementary treatments ... the evidence for these things isn't fantastic (although that could be because there's not a multibillion dollar fish-oil industry sponsoring clinical research)
Actually, there is a multi-billion dollar industry. There are a lot of alt medicine journals popping up (mostly because the research didn't pass muster at real journals). They even have federal research grants. Again, it's a personal choice, but I'd say if you're worried about vitamin levels go get your blood tested.
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