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WIPO Broadcasting Treaty Back On the Table

c0lo writes with a bit from BoingBoing: "The UN's World Intellectual Property Organization's Broadcasting Treaty is back. This is the treaty that EFF and its colleagues killed five years ago, but Big Content won't let it die. Under the treaty, broadcasters would have rights over the material they transmitted, separate from copyright, meaning that if you recorded something from TV, the Internet, cable or satellite, you'd need to get permission from the creator and the broadcaster to re-use it. And unlike copyright, the 'broadcast right' doesn't expire, so even video that is in the public domain can't be used without permission from the broadcaster."

34 of 133 comments (clear)

  1. Keep trying till they sneak it through? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I hate that governments can just rename a treaty or bill and resubmit it. I mean, with SOPA & PIPA, the people have spoken and stated they do not want this. Why can the government just reintroduce it again a few months later? We shouldn't have to be constantly fighting these battles with our own government.

    1. Re:Keep trying till they sneak it through? by characterZer0 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Because even when people get bills they do not like killed they still vote for the same politicians the next election cycle.

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    2. Re:Keep trying till they sneak it through? by d3ac0n · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Except that this is the UN. Freaking NOBODY voted for these people. Just goes to show you; Nothing is more tyrannical than rule by Bureaucrat.

      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    3. Re:Keep trying till they sneak it through? by sqlrob · · Score: 2

      Except this still gets voted on by the people you elected.

    4. Re:Keep trying till they sneak it through? by denis-The-menace · · Score: 4, Informative

      RE: I hate that governments can just rename a treaty or bill and resubmit it. I mean, with SOPA & PIPA.

      BTW: It's called CETA now.
      And it contains ACTA/SOPA/PIPA laws
      and a bonus: Cities not allowed to have "buy local" tenders.

      --
      Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
    5. Re:Keep trying till they sneak it through? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To describe the UN as 'tyrannical' is arguably inaccurate. It's pretty hard to be a 'tyranny' when your available power extends just far enough to write nasty notes until the office supplies budget runs out, and where getting any real shit done requires unanimity from the somewhat-togetherness-challenged security council...

      The really pernicious thing about the UN is that it provides an excellent alternate venue for the more tyrannically minded members of state governments, and favored industry representatives, to put the stamp of 'law' on things that are either too crazy to ram through more local legislatures, or where support is overwhelmingly strong in certain countries but weak or nonexistent elsewhere.

      The UN would be up shit creek without a paddle within about one budget cycle if it displeased its member states too seriously; which is why its assorted baroque treaty bodies can be so... customer service oriented... when it comes to agreeing to crazy stuff.

    6. Re:Keep trying till they sneak it through? by dkleinsc · · Score: 2

      That's no more true than arguing that nobody voted for the Attorney General or Secretary of the Treasury: It's technically true, but UN representatives most definitely answer to their respective governments. For instance, if the US representatives support WIPO this time around, it's because President Obama supports WIPO. And according to the rules of the UN, if the UN supports something, that means the US has acquiesced to it.

      (The same argument is true for residents of the UK and France.)

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    7. Re:Keep trying till they sneak it through? by characterZer0 · · Score: 2

      There are choices, but most people have it stuck in their heads that they should only vote for candidates of the two major parties. The lack of choice is not because of the candidates, but because of the majority of the voters.

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    8. Re:Keep trying till they sneak it through? by CanEHdian · · Score: 2

      ...and there's a Western Front too: TPP or Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement, containing it's own err... "IPR Chapter".

      Don't let the limited "fair use" rules news stories blind you. TPP is a direct attack on the free Internet as well.

      --
      When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
    9. Re:Keep trying till they sneak it through? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Even in that event, though, the UN would largely be acting in the role of a rubber-stamp for various member states that want color of law for assorted bullshit involving censorship or ghastly telco monopolies...

      Don't get me wrong: as a 'respectable', but rather pliable, venue for 'legislation shopping'(about as respectable as doctor shopping for oxycontin; but far more dangerous) the UN is a supremely dangerous instrument. If you can't get your terrible idea adopted at a national level, or your terrible idea requires some sort of transnational suicide pact, you go and shop it to the UN, or the WTO, or the EU, or any other obscure alphabet soup institution, and then you come back and 'harmonize' the law you were gunning for in the first place.

      That's the distinction. These assorted treaty bodies and multinational whatnots are not powers unto themselves, as any of the less pathetic nation states are; but can be(and usually are) useful instruments for applying credibility to things that either require a veneer of international consensus or are simply too slimy to easily do domestically.

      (Even organizations like the IMF and World Bank, that are traditionally given broad latitude to fuck with little countries that nobody likes, get substantially more tenuous if they step on the toes of countries even a few rungs up the ladder.)

    10. Re:Keep trying till they sneak it through? by cpu6502 · · Score: 2

      Thomas Jefferson described the Supreme Court as "dangerous" because the justices "are not subject to the elective control of the people". I would say the UN-level bureaucrats are the same.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    11. Re:Keep trying till they sneak it through? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 2

      I hate that industries can just rename a treaty or bill and resubmit it. I mean, with SOPA & PIPA, the people have spoken and stated they do not want this. Why can the industriy just reintroduce it again a few months later? We shouldn't have to be constantly fighting these battles with the industries that own our own government.

      FTFY

      It's probably best to disabuse ourselves of the notion that government is anything other than the legislative/judicial/wait staff division of MegaCorps Inc.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
  2. Good luck EFF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Time to support EFF, be that with time or money.

  3. Bill of Digital Rights by boyfaceddog · · Score: 2

    We need a Bill of Digital Rights, one that underlies all of our national and international laws and keeps rights for citizens. Unless we have that the corporations will just write laws to keep the rights for themselves and citizens will be left with nothing.

    And yes, 'corporations are people, my friend', 'Live free (as in beer) or die' and all that. ;-)

    --
    Here will be an old abusing of God's patience and the king's English.
    1. Re:Bill of Digital Rights by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What, so they've got three documents they can ignore when drafting laws instead of just two?

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    2. Re:Bill of Digital Rights by cpghost · · Score: 2

      We need a Bill of Digital Rights, one that underlies all of our national and international laws and keeps rights for citizens.

      We already have that, and it's called the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works. It says in a nutshell that Big Content has the right to extort huge amounts of money by artificially restricting distribution, and that Citizens have the right to get fleeced and the right to pay through the nose each time they want to read or hear and watch something, LONG after the content creator died. Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit, and that's essentially what it is. Your Bill of Digital Rights won't help here, because ratified international treaties have precedence of national laws. And the probability that the US would get out of the Berne Convention is literally zero.

      --
      cpghost at Cordula's Web.
    3. Re:Bill of Digital Rights by CanEHdian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What you need is a Third Political Party in the US, one that champions human-people over corporations. The "R" and "D" denominations have a "What's good for Business, is good for the Country. What's good for the Country, is good for its People" mentality. Everything else is splintered to death. I'd say rally behind the US Pirate Party and enjoy the benefits of help from Pirate Parties International, who is on track to gain observer membership in WIPO.

      --
      When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
    4. Re:Bill of Digital Rights by Lucky_Norseman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nothing in the Berne Convention prohibits a government from taxing Intellectual Property.
      If Big Content was taxed according to the official **AA value of their properties, they would soon start delivering to public domain.

      Same of course could be applied to the broadcasters with "broadcaster eternal copyright". Tax them until they either release copyrights or go bust.

    5. Re:Bill of Digital Rights by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 2

      Indeed. Governments are keen to sign contracts like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, but they are also equally happy to ignore them as soon as they're even a little in the way of what they want to do.

      It's very sad that said declaration has so little weight behind it. The US, for instance, blatantly ignores it, yet they're not punished in any way. They should be booted from the UN and trade-sanctioned to hell and back for their behaviour. Lots of other countries are in violation as well, but they generally don't adopt the holier-than-thou attitude of the US. Do your worst, mods, I have plenty of karma to burn, but please at least have a look at articles 5-11 first.

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
  4. Greed by Shaman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When will all this greed end, so that people can live reasonable lives, other than a chosen few who are already rich beyond the dreams of most of us?

    --
    ...Steve
    1. Re:Greed by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      They kind of remind me of my kids at times: "Dad, we just want this one more toy. Just this one and we'll be satisfied and will be good and will never ask for anything again and will clean our room and will love you forever and ever."

      I don't fall for it because I know they'll be happy for about a week before the toy gets tossed aside as they cry for New Shiny Toy Number 573. We shouldn't fall for it when the media companies say they just need this one additional bill to "fight piracy and protect the artists" and, if we give them this, they'll be satisfied. They won't ever be. Each bill is just a springboard to another bill for them.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:Greed by mbone · · Score: 2

      And while we may complain about wealthy corporations doing immoral things to make money, remember they're not required to be a fount of morality - they're legally required to maximise profits for shareholders within the law.

      Actually, no they are not. They have a fiduciary responsibility to act in their shareholder's best interest, which is rather different. And, in practice, they almost never get called on this (i.e., sued by shareholders) if they are not actively looting the company, so even that requirement is frequently ignored.

      If corporate executives act immorally, it is because they have no morals, not because they are being coerced.

  5. Insanity... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The idea that 'broadcasters' need some sort of newly created right seems unsupportable to the point of insanity(obviously, they want as much as they can get; but that's a different matter). "Broadcasting" has historically been something that people are quite enthusiastic about doing. So much so that the FCC and its equivalents have spent a lot of time busting unlicenced RF sources, and copyright holders have done considerable wailing and gnashing about all their precious content getting shoved out over the airwaves.

    Take the robust history of broadcasting, clearly not an endangered activity, and add the fact that newer technology is making it ever cheaper and easier, and it just seems completely insane to award a bigger slice of power to people engaged in it.

    History demonstrates that, even without broadcast rights, even in downright wild-west environments, broadcasting gets done. Technological advances are making broadcasting and broadcast-like activity even cheaper and easier, so what possible reason could we have to need to award it any further incentives?

  6. A suggestion for the UN... by blcamp · · Score: 2

    ...I wish the UN would exercise it's right to go f*** itself.

    --
    The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
    1. Re:A suggestion for the UN... by cpghost · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, in this particular case, it's the UN acting on behalf of the US-MAFIAA and US-Government to export the US-brand of "copyright" to the rest of the world. And I'm saying "US-brand" because it's the kind of copyright that is obviously and clearly designed to protect the distribution cartel, instead of the original content creators.

      --
      cpghost at Cordula's Web.
  7. Re:The solution is simple... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    "Broadcast" everything we can get our hands on, ourselves.

    Then WE own a 'perpetual copyright' and YOU can't use it....nenner neener

    It would be entertaining for the pirate bay to acquire unprecedented intellectual property rights over the vast majority of the western world's commercial cultural output...

  8. Permanent war footing by benjfowler · · Score: 2

    These white collar traitors and criminals, will just try, and keep trying to shove their tyrannical laws down our throats.

    Short of actually identifying and shooting the people attempting these corporate power grabs, we all must come to the realization that the corporate fascists will simply keep trying and trying until they succeed.

    We must adjust accordingly, and simply move to a kind of permanent war footing. They will never let up, and we must assume that they'll keep trying it on.

    We must realize that this is a war that it will never end, and that the fight will NEVER be over -- and plan and fund that fight accordingly.

  9. Re:Best deterrent for this idiocy by dkleinsc · · Score: 2

    Treason is a very specific charge, defined in the US Constitution - it requires aiding and abetting a declared enemy of the United States. For instance, when John Hinckley shot Ronald Reagan, that was capital murder, not treason. If he had done the same thing because he had received an order from Moscow, then it would have been treason.

    The other problem with your proposal is that slightly modifying the wording might legitimately make an objectionable proposal acceptable: e.g. Someone who opposed throwing kittens into the Potomac would quite possibly not object to throwing stuffed kittens into the Potomac.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  10. MPAA selects the candidates by tepples · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Except this still gets voted on by the people you elected.

    Who have pledged to support what the movie studios push. Otherwise, they wouldn't have even won the primaries because the movie studios control the news media that help candidates get elected to the U.S. Senate.

  11. Re:The solution is simple... by cpghost · · Score: 2

    Yup, that would be funny. Too bad that the Pirate Bay didn't broadcast anything... except for the torrents that pointed to the individual broadcasters. On the other hand, MegaUpload and other cyber lockers did and do broadcast a lot of stuff. Under the new regime, they would be filthy rich in terms of broadcasted IP portfolio.

    --
    cpghost at Cordula's Web.
  12. It's an MPAA frame-up by tepples · · Score: 2

    The majority of U.S. voters have chosen to trust MPAA-owned television news sources as their source for information about the issues and the candidates. This puts the MPAA in a unique position to frame the debate.

  13. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  14. Lifetime of the Sun by tepples · · Score: 2

    Based on how I read Eldred v. Ashcroft, a copyright term limited to the lifetime of the Sun still counts as "limited Times".

  15. Re:Vote for which MPAA-approved candidate? by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 2

    Use the write in space.

    If your vote is actually counted accurately (ha!) and enough people vote "No Confidence" it will send a clear signal to the politicians.

    Sadly, the signal will probably be to legally change names to "No Confidence"...

    --
    Not a sentence!