UK Authorities Threaten To Storm Ecuadorian Embassy To Arrest Julian Assange

Yeah by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-15 12:29 · Score: 5, Insightful

Because they are really bothered about that possible rape charge against him.

Re:Yeah by JaredOfEuropa · 2012-08-15 12:41 · Score: 5, Interesting

It's not even really rape; note that his so called crime only carries a crappy fine as punishment. Oh, and he isn't being charged either. The police just want to ask him some questions; something they normally do over the phone in cases like this, or perhaps send over some officers to the UK for an interview. Nothing that warrants the Interpol warrant (which was issued against the rules), and certainly nothing worth storming an embassy for.

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If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Re:Yeah by sgt_doom · 2012-08-15 12:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

And they want him back in Gothenburg (Goteborg), not Stockholm, very, very odd --- oh yeah, that's where "Extreme Rendition Airlines" a k a, Jeppesen Systems AB is located!
Re:Yeah by Rei · 2012-08-15 13:29 · Score: 5, Informative

It's not even really rape; note that his so called crime only carries a crappy fine as punishment. Oh, and he isn't being charged either.
Are you going for a new record in "how dense can I pack errors about the assange case"?
1) The checkbox on the arrest warrant for "rape" was marked, and the UK courts found that the charges would be rape even under UK law (most notably, having sex with a person who's asleep, even ignoring that he did so without a condom which had been made clear was a precondition of sex with her - it's *always* illegal)
2) The charges are with penalties of up to four years in prison.
3) He cannot be charged in absentia under Swedish law. There is a series of steps which must be taken in order to lead to formal charges, and not all of them have been taken yet. Hence the warrant to continue the process. The European Arrest Warrant makes it clear that he is to be returned with intent to charge. Which also means it makes no sense to send over Swedish interrogators to the UK - not like anyone should have to give famous people special treatment anyway just because they say to.

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We're practicing our labials.
Re:Yeah by JaredOfEuropa · 2012-08-15 14:01 · Score: 5, Informative

Ah yes, re point 1, one of the "rape victims" alledgedly made Assange a nice breakfast after this so called rape took place, rather odd behavior after having been violated. As it turned out, both victims pressed charges only after finding out that Assange had been double dipping, after conferring with each other and then seeking legal council about their options. At the risk of sounding sexist and dismissing more sinister tin foil theories, I say the most palatable theory about this matter is that it is all about "a woman scorned", or two in this case.

But let's suppose that something unconsentual has taken place here. If Assange is extradited to Sweden, charged and convicted for rape or whatever, and if it ends there, then I will publicly come out here and eat my words. But if he is extradited, fined or sentenced to do a little time, and then released to the custody of the US, by secret rendition or simple and legal extradition, then all you'll get is a fat "told you so"

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If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Re:Yeah by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-15 14:17 · Score: 5, Interesting

The Ecuadorian Embassy are the ones who OFFERED asylum because they appreciated what was in the Wikileaks cables. Assange didn't just show up on their doorstep demanding a favor. Why are you shilling so hard for the CIA? 90% of the posts in your user profile are anti-Assange attacks.
Wikileaks is the only reason Bin Laden was killed. They leaked documents that revealed the CIA knew Bin Laden's courier was based in Abottabad. The USA then had no chance but to get him before Pakistani intelligence moved him again. Are you mad Bin Laden was caught for some reason? Do you have some financial interests in a continued American troop presence in South Asia? Maybe you should come clean.
Re:Yeah by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-15 14:20 · Score: 5, Informative

Yes, except the host state can't just enter except in an emergency, like a fire, earthquake, or rampage. Entering under color of the host's legal process is exactly the type of thing banned by treaty and international law.
They can close the embassy, but they can't just do it willy-nilly. They have to give notice, reasonable time to allow the staff to wind up, and safe exit. If Assange is successfully appointed a diplomat, then they have to let him go. If they disagree with the appointment, they can declare their intention to treat him as non-staff, but must first give him reasonable time to leave.
By treaty a country could appoint as a staff member someone with third-party nationality. Although that can be subject to change ahead of time, and it's unclear what the rule is in the UK wrt Ecuador.
See the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations:
http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf
Re:Yeah by Rei · 2012-08-15 14:29 · Score: 5, Insightful

And I let my rapist walk me back to my f***ing car and waited for him while he peed on the street. Have you never heard of "shock" before? Do you have any clue how hard it is to get yourslf to accept the fact that you've been raped? As soon as he left she immediately cleaned up and washed everything in her apartment, especially the semen spot on her bed, after washing herself, and then called her friends, distraught (matching their testimony).
Like most people, I couldn't get myself to file charges. I just wanted to forget about it. I couldn't imagine going through a trial, having to face him more, and all of the smears that I know would have been directed against me for being some "slut trying to ruin an innocent man's life". And he was a nobody, not someone with a legion of millions of global fans. I mean, my god, I've seen websites about these women that are basically stalker sites.
I did nothing. But if I had found out shortly after that he had done the *same sort of thing thing* to another girl right around the same time as what he did to me? I still don't know if I would have filed charges, but it definitely would have changed the picture.

But let's suppose that something unconsentual has taken place here.
During sleep it's *always* non-consentual. A sleeping person *cannot consent*, period.

then I will publicly come out here and eat my words.
You'll need to do more than eat your words. What is the proper way to apologize for smearing rape victims?

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We're practicing our labials.

He REALLY pissed off governments.... by NeutronCowboy · 2012-08-15 12:30 · Score: 5, Insightful

Impressive. I think this is the first time I've heard anyone threaten to storm an embassy. I haven't even seen the Chinese do this. Note to everyone: this is what happens if you threaten to thoroughly upend the balance of power, expose secrets everywhere, and generally fuck with people in power. If you do this, you better make sure you have an equally strong power backing you. Otherwise, you will spend the rest of your life in jail, regardless of whether you actually broke any laws.

On the upside, props to Assange. I don't think he saw this coming, but I do think that what he did was a service to the world.

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Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.

Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-15 12:32 · Score: 5, Insightful

If the UK does this, I'm pretty sure you'll see a lot of countries pulling their embassies from the there. This isn't a fucking James Bond movie - this is real life. What good is an embassy if it's not sovereign ground?
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... by pegasustonans · 2012-08-15 12:33 · Score: 5, Insightful

Impressive. I think this is the first time I've heard anyone threaten to storm an embassy. I haven't even seen the Chinese do this. Note to everyone: this is what happens if you threaten to thoroughly upend the balance of power, expose secrets everywhere, and generally fuck with people in power. If you do this, you better make sure you have an equally strong power backing you. Otherwise, you will spend the rest of your life in jail, regardless of whether you actually broke any laws.
On the upside, props to Assange. I don't think he saw this coming, but I do think that what he did was a service to the world.
While storming the embassy would be an immediate defeat for Assange, I can't help but think it would prove a massive victory for Wikileaks in the battle over public opinion.

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And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. --Will
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... by girlintraining · 2012-08-15 12:43 · Score: 5, Funny

Oh, us Americans do it all the time; that whole "we have more guns than you" -- It has made us many friends overseas. I understand we were thanked by the citizens of Afghanistan in New York a few years back, in September, for a similar action. It was such a powerful gesture by the international community that we erected monuments and printed millions of bumper stickers to commemorate the occasion. Ever since, we've tried very hard to repeat that successful policy by sending peace envoys all over the world -- 150 countries and counting currently host them! We highly recommend storming embassies to any country who wants to bolster their international reputation.

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#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... by Macgrrl · 2012-08-15 12:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

Possibly the question isn't will Ecuador stand and call the UK's bluff, but would the UK follow through if forced?
If the UK did in fact storm an embassy and as a consequence violate sovereign state, they are basically saying to anyone who may consider them an 'enemy' that they don't recognise consulates as sovereign territory so their own embassies in foreign countries are then at risk of incursion. Do they really want to do that in China or the Middle East or Africa or anywhere else they may have sensitive relationships?

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Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... by VortexCortex · 2012-08-15 13:12 · Score: 5, Insightful

Say Ecuador calls their bluff. Can the UK storm in and show the world what a real US lapdog looks like? The fact that they would even threaten this shit shows just how FUCKED the world is right now.
He's ONE MAN. He's not breaking into your secure places and leaking your dirty fucking secrets. No, IT'S YOUR OWN PEOPLE who see the corruption and go to him to help them right the wrongs they see. Get rid of Assagnge. "Just do it"(tm). It won't change the fact YOUR OWN PEOPLE have moral problems with the wrongs going down. The right thing to do is STOP DOING EVIL. If you don't think that "making an example" of Assange will just embolden EVERYONE who is privy to questionable government bullshit to find another spokesperson and get the word out, then you really have no idea how Brits and Americans think.
You think "The Streisand Effect" is bad? Just wait till we have an excuse to coin the term "The Assange Effect".
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... by TubeSteak · 2012-08-15 13:32 · Score: 5, Informative

I understand we were thanked by the citizens of Afghanistan in New York a few years back, in September, for a similar action.
Saudi Arabia: fifteen hijackers
United Arab Emirates: two hijackers
Lebanon: one hijacker
Egypt: one hijacker

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[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Re:He REALLY pissed off governments.... by starcraftsicko · 2012-08-15 14:37 · Score: 5, Informative

All of these 'situations' assume embassies that look a lot like the embassies that the US or Britain might normally have in foreign capitals.... Big mansion-like buildings surrounded by a fence... certainly something with a nice private place for a limo to pull up and still be on embassy grounds. Equador doesn't have one of those.
Equador has a bit of office space in the middle of a building that has other office space. There is no private helipad or carport or other place to try any of the 'situations' that anyone has suggested. You can safely assume that he elevators/doors/stairs/windows are under surveillance. There'll be no sneaking.

This is hideous by richardcavell · 2012-08-15 12:31 · Score: 5, Insightful

The inviolability of an embassy is critically important to diplomatic relations. If British police set a precedent here, it will cause embassies around the world to militarize, causing tension. I hope it's just a hollow threat made by some idiot who doesn't understand the situation properly.

A Joke? by charlesr44403 · 2012-08-15 12:37 · Score: 5, Interesting

Is this a joke? Can the most civilized nation on earth sink to the level of the state criminals who stormed the American embassy in Iran?

An Ugly Precedent by camionbleu · 2012-08-15 12:44 · Score: 5, Insightful

Here is the message that I've sent to David Cameron this evening,. If anyone else feels strongly about this and wishes to use my text, please feel free. You can reach him here.

Dear Mr Cameron,

I have read reports in the international press this evening, citing Ecuador's Foreign Minister, that the UK is considering entering the London Embassy of Ecuador without Ecuador's permission in order to arrest Mr Julian Assange, who is seeking refuge there.

I strongly urge the UK not to take this action, which would be a violation of Article 22 of the Vienna Convention. It would set an ugly precedent that would not be lost on other countries. Historically, the UK has valued the rule of law. When the UK contravenes international law, it sends a very unfortunate message to other countries who do not value the rule of law. That message is: "you, too, can ride roughshod over international law".

If the UK enters the Embassy of Ecuador without permission I predict that other countries will use this chilling precedent to do likewise, perhaps against a UK embassy.

Please seek a peaceful agreement with Ecuador.

Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog by Taco+Cowboy · 2012-08-15 12:59 · Score: 5, Insightful

No matter if the guy has raped that Swedish girl or not, - that's not the main point, for that "rape story" has become an excuse for UK to take action on behalf of Uncle Sam/

By doing so, UK no longer honors its own sovereignty.

A sovereign nation is like a free, dignified person, an entity that takes up action to protect it/him/herself, and has the freedom to do whatever it/he/she wants to do.

United Kingdom, by threatening to storm the embassy of another nation, over a person whom we all know Uncle Sam wants, is no longer a nation which I respect - and I suspect I am not alone in not regarding UK as a dignified country no more.

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Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !

Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog by second_coming · 2012-08-15 13:12 · Score: 5, Insightful

The British government are not the country, I doubt there are many people in the UK who would support this action and even fewer who are happy with the way the government sucks up to the US.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog by Dunbal · 2012-08-15 13:12 · Score: 5, Insightful

But you were cool with them
A little reminder: neither you nor I were alive when that happened. This kind of dipshit thinking is what keeps places like the middle east at war for 5000 years.

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Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog by anagama · 2012-08-15 14:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

Yeah right. You might as well suggest Americans change their government, but average Joes are in the same position the world over: bent over at the waist clutching their ankles saying "do it again please."

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What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-15 15:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

> if you think its so easy to change, you, maybe, can show us ignorant peasants how its done??
Well, the French did it, ask them. But it wasn't pretty, I tell you.
Also, a piece of advice to US and Brit governments: don't try to please the people with little cakes... last time it didn't work.
Now, seriously, it's not just the USA and the Brits, other countries have problematic governments doing foolhardy follies -- e.g. Russia.
If those who can intervene do nothing, that might mean a much bloodier process down the river (see Libya and Syria, for example).
We live in a globalized world now. That means we must pay attention to the big picture, it's not just the US (or UK) way anymore; everybody is looking... even if you get Assange, that will not be seen with good eyes by other in the world (given the reasons to get him -- and don't come up with that "rape" bullshit, again). The UK is already looking like some Banana Republic if the law is "flexible" so that embassies can be made inexistent overnight.
What good is having any embassy in UK if things are that way? And if our embassy isn't worth a penny, why would we harbour a British embassy over here? To drink tea at 5? Duh!
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog by Bespoke · 2012-08-15 16:31 · Score: 5, Informative

Damn, and you were doing so well there for a minute.... But then you mentioned the Daily Mail (right-wing tabloid, for non-Brits - like The Sun without the tits) as your source for information about the NHS. Now most other things about the UK can be considered shitty (as with the US), but the one thing that *IS FOR CERTAIN* shitty in the UK is the Daily Fail. ;-)
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog by Jeremy+Allison+-+Sam · 2012-08-15 16:44 · Score: 5, Insightful

Sure, I can believe as an NHS nurse she had lots of horror stories about how broken the system is. I can tell you lots of horror stories about how broken every company I've ever worked for is :-).
But (and I'm sorry to hear she passed away so you can't ask here) I very much doubt that she would have preferred to impose the US-style system on her patients, had she had experience of both systems.
I live in the US, and I'd pay double my taxes just to get a working NHS over here. Having experience of both systems I know what I'm talking about. It's the peace of mind.
If you've never had it, and only lived in the US system you won't really understand what I'm talking about. It's like trying to describe color (note the spelling there :-) to a blind person. But I'll try.
Imagine just NOT HAVING TO WORRY about healthcare or costs. Seriously - NOT HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT IT AT ALL. Ever. That's what the NHS brings to people's lives.
People over there complain about it, but that's because they also don't understand how truely disfunctional the US system is. They (people in the UK) have no concept of being made bankrupt and homeless by healthcare costs. They just can't imagine it.
Re:Unfortunately, UK has become Uncle Sam's lapdog by Esteanil · 2012-08-15 17:18 · Score: 5, Informative

I've run out of mod points, so mod parent up.
I'm in the Norwegian system, and we're fairly well covered. I got really really ill 3 years back, you see. Turned out, there were these infections in my brain. 7 of them. And the reason my head hurt was that they were all expanding so fast I was heading into a coma. That's what I was told later, though. The first night:
After being rushed into the ER and immidiately have 5 ER nurses and doctors (not sure how many was which) descend on me the moment I entered the ER, I was sent to a CT scan. She came back out, looked at me, and went back in to take another. Afterwards she told me: "You have had a small brain infarction", and my life ended. I thought.
After 3 days, they sent me to another, bigger, hospital. Because, as I gathered the reasoning was, they could *also* open up my brain to check out the infections, but this other hospital could put me back together afterwards, so that's where I was going.
During the next 5 weeks I am dying from one of the most common causes of my kind, runaway brain infections. As it turns out, after several doctors have taken a break from their vacation to answer important question... In fact, there were doctors all over Norway taking part in my diagnosis from the first night I was in hospital.
3 weeks in they've taken enough MR pictures, and tried enough antibiotics and anti-tuberculosis and... Well. I especially liked the one that made me vomit every time I took it after 30m-2hrs. It made all my bodily fluids completely red. I still feel a little sorry for whoever had to repeatedly clean the bathroom right next to the hospital smoking room after I'd been there... A couple of times it looked like a massacre, and when I tried to rub it off with paper it just smeared.
Suffice to say I was medicated, and to this day am I grateful for stereoids. They literally kept me alive for 5 weeks.
As I was saying, after 3 weeks they had enough MR pictures to program the robot that was to enter my brain, take a sample, and exit. I had to be awake for the brain surgery. One of the reasons is that if my kind gets full anaesthetic there's a 40% chance we never rise again.
They started by bolting a crown to my head. Just a circle, and bolts, all of which were drawn hard enough to stand firm in my cranium.
Then, they started drilling. And I shall remember this feeling until the day I die. The universe was vibrating, and there was a sound that was more than a sound. And that sound was not entirely unlike a dental drill multiplied by... Something nicely logarithmic. I can't really even estimate it.
Then they asked me questions now and again. I was doped to the gills, and mostly was very bored and wanted it to be over... When it was over, they added morphine. Vast amounts of morphine. Unlike all the other patients in the communal waking room, I wasn't sleeping. I was just in gradually^H^H rapidly rising pain.
Later that night, when I was back in my very comfortable single room, I went to the bathroom, and fell partially asleep... This is my morphine-fueled dream:
The interplanetary patent office, due to a severe temporal/causal blunder, has released the iPhone 12 instead of the iPhone 2 (which actually was releasing that day or one of the immidiately surrounding ones). I was holding an iPhone 12. This new model especially had this very interesting function I wanted to test. If you flipped your phone over to the left, it replicated, instantaneously creating a perfect copy of itself that you could lend to a friend. This copy would last for 12 hours. Unfortunately, the phone I'd gotten was bugged, and when I flipped it over to the left it just Made My Head Hurt Really Bad.
All in all, the state spent... I don't know:
Ambulance, 7 km. Air ambulance, 1hr30m. 10 weeks, mostly in solitary room in the most expensive department of the hospital. Infections. The room I slept in part of the time there probably cost many times what my house did.
Unknown number of doctors * unknown number of hours, bu

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I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.

Re:Will be really surprised if they storm the plac by ACS+Solver · 2012-08-15 13:19 · Score: 5, Interesting

There are a few misconceptions that crop up repeatedly. Keep mind though that IANAL.

The diplomat's vehicle isn't sovereign land of the sending country. In fact, neither is the embassy. The Ecuadorian embassy in the UK is still sovereign land of the UK, however, it is inviolable (Article 22 of the Vienna convention). Same article specifies that the vehicles can not be searched. But it's precisely this status of embassies - as opposed to them being sovereign land of the sending state as it's often believed - is, in my reading, what the UK uses to give itself the right to revoke unilaterally that status, under the act cited in the summary.

If the embassy has diplomatic vehicles parked within the premises and not across the street or elsewhere, Assange can get into one of those vehicles, with a diplomat, and drive somewhere, with the police not having the right to detain him. Problem for him is he'd have to get out at the airport or somewhere.

Another comment I saw repeated several times elsewhere is that Ecuador could grant Assange citizenship and diplomat status, making him immune. This is not so - the receiving nation must explicitly agree to acknowledge each member of the mission. Obviously Assange would never be acknowledged as a diplomat by the UK. From my understanding of international law, even if Assange was to become the President of Ecuador, he would still not be enjoying immunity as that applies on official visits of the head of state.

Anyway, his is getting interesting and rapidly heading somewhere. Ecuador is set to announce its decision on asylum in about 12 hours, the UK might be determined to act before then. If they do not, there might be drama around Assange trying to leave the UK. Unless, of course, he just stays holed up there indefinitely.

Don't forget by Anonymous Coward · 2012-08-15 13:20 · Score: 5, Interesting

An invitation was even given by the Ecuadorian government to the Swedish prosecutors to come to their embassy and speak with Assange, and they refused to cooperate.

No shit by A+nonymous+Coward · 2012-08-15 14:49 · Score: 5, Interesting

None of the Latin America countries enjoy being reminded of their past colonial status, or the continuing attitude of the US and European imperialists, whether former or not. I imagine if Britain really were so stupid as to storm the Ecuadoran embassy, every single one of their Latin American embassies would be stormed by the people, with the police stepping aside.

There aren't many people anywhere in the world that see this as anything but the UK sucking up to the US. No civilized country has ever stormed an embassy that I can think of, other than the Iranian revolutionaries storming the US embassy, and that was in response to 25 years of living under the Shah who had been forced on them by the US. Does Britain really want to be the first modern civilized country to do something so outrageous, for a somewhat dubious rape charge, as the US's lapdog? I wouldn't be surprised to see the Conservative government fall to a vote of no confidence. I can't imagine too many UK citizens would think this a proper demonstration of national pride.

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Infuriate left and right

Re:Slow down there! by donaggie03 · 2012-08-15 15:27 · Score: 5, Informative

According to dailymail, this all stems from a letter between the two nations which states "You need to be aware that there is a legal base in the UK, the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987, that would allow us to take actions in order to arrest Mr Assange in the current premises of the Embassy. We sincerely hope that we do not reach that point, but if you are not capable of resolving this matter of Mr Assange’s presence in your premises, this is an open option for us."

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Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin

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