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Polish MP Returns iPad Citing Lack of Control

Posted by Unknown on from the cloud-is-watching-you dept.

rysiek writes "Polish MP and spokesperson for one of Polish political parties Dariusz Joski returned his state-issued iPad, citing lack of control (Google-translated). Polish Free and Open Source Software Foundation (of Anti-ACTA fame) offered (free of charge, of course) to help him choose, install and configure Linux on his laptop, including setting-up disk encryption. We are still waiting for an answer from the MP." Another concern of his appears to have been a lack of security regarding communications with other government officials.

30 of 148 comments (clear)

  1. I like Apple bashing as much as the next man... by FalconZero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...but this story to me reads as a "Man does not like thing." fluff piece.

    Can anyone enlighten me?

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    Windows in 6 Bytes (IA-32) : 90 90 90 90 CD 19
    1. Re:I like Apple bashing as much as the next man... by PCK · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well as a politician I'm pretty sure he had one eye on the free publicity for him this would cause, seems to have worked I'd say.

    2. Re:I like Apple bashing as much as the next man... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the big story is that there still exist people who don't know about the lack of control. On Slashdot we all know; in the mainstream most people don't.

      Obviously the guy cares about being The master of his computer, knowing who has access to his imap password, etc. Had he known how bad this particular personal computer would be about such things, he would have avoided it from the beginning. But he didn't.

      This suggests to me that more educating of the public, could help everyone a lot. People ought to know about iOS' problems before, not after. Finding out after is why Apple is doing so well (as Microsoft before them), and at the public's expense since control issues are zero-sum games.

      This guy should never have been put into this situation where he has to get rid of the already-paid-for junk. But unlike many problems, we actually have the power to prevent this one, simply by spreading the word.

      Apple-bashing isn't sufficient; you have to say why you're Apple-bashing. Explain the problem enough, and eventually people won't need things bashed anymore, because the products' defects will scream at the prospective customers for themselves. They'll see that some products aren't advertised as serving their users or as being secure, and realize "oh right, that stuff matters, and it's suspicious when the manufacturer weasels about it."

      There's no reason we can't get the state of the art in security (who has access to your email?) at least back to as well as it was 20 years ago (which was pretty bad, but I'm only comparing it to 2012 so the bar is absurdly low). All it takes it getting the public to think that way.

    3. Re:I like Apple bashing as much as the next man... by FalconZero · · Score: 2

      Well, Google Translate didn't do a great job in this instance, so I'll have to take that as an assumption, (unless you read Polish or have a better source and can tell me definitively) .

      What I did get from the article is what I assumed to be the principle objection - a quote stating "Admin has access to everything." - which holds true for any organisation which uses email.

      --
      Windows in 6 Bytes (IA-32) : 90 90 90 90 CD 19
    4. Re:I like Apple bashing as much as the next man... by rtkluttz · · Score: 2

      The hammer analogy has been used before and is completely irrelevant. Hammers have always been designed for a single task. Computing devices are general tools that have traditionally been open to the owner to work with and change as he pleases. The only limits have traditionally been limits in imagination and coding skill. The last 10 years has seen a new breed of computing devices that ARTIFICIALLY limited, broken by design, so that you work within limits set by the overlord errr Apple and/or have those restrictions removed one by one to generate a revenue stream.

      Kudos to ANYONE with enough brains to say no, even if this motive might be secondary in this case.

      --
      Digital is, by definition, imperfect. Analog is the way to go.
    5. Re:I like Apple bashing as much as the next man... by bhagwad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A hammer is a clearly specialized instrument. A computer is not. Moroever, there's nothing stopping you from using a hammer for anything you care to find a use for. With computing devices these days, customers are ARTIFICIALLY restricted from doing stuff. And that is what I find offensive because the open culture of general purpose computing is one of the greatest achievements of mankind.

    6. Re:I like Apple bashing as much as the next man... by oakgrove · · Score: 2

      The thing is that the even though some regard the walled garden thing to be a problem, it's a problem that most consumers are ok with, or indifferent to.

      You're responding to an easily assailable strawman and chopping it down. If I were more cynical, I'd think you wrote the AC comment you're replying to.

      The politician gave very clear reasons why he didn't want to use the iPad and it wasn't some vague notion of "walled garden = do not want". He rejected it because in his opinion he lacked control over data stored on the device. He wondered if the data is backed up and the back-up service gets breeched then the public will be severely harmed. My Polish is non-existent and Google translate isn't much better but I'm pretty sure that's the jist of his complaint and deserves more credence than the condescending and vague "walled garden" presumption. As far as what "consumers" want, I don't think this MP was making a general statement on iPad suitability and the consequences of his data falling into the wrong hands would effect many more people than the typical consumer's data would.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    7. Re:I like Apple bashing as much as the next man... by Raenex · · Score: 2

      An iPad is not a general purpose computing device.

      "There's an app for that." Actually, that was for the iPhone. The iPad is pretty much the iPhone with a bigger screen and not intended to act as a phone. The device is locked down because Apple wants iron-fisted control, not because it inherently needs to be.

  2. Lack of control? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The MP probably doesn't realize that Apple has plenty of control over all iPads.

    1. Re:Lack of control? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On the contrary. He seems to have realized exactly that - and so he returned the thing. Ipads are fine for surfing and "family use", but I wouldn't trust one to keep state secrets. For that, you use a machine where you can inspect all the software - and you preferably have some trusted experts to set it up. The man is just being sensible.

    2. Re:Lack of control? by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It does not look from that article that it has been "ruled uncrackable", except by NeoWin. They seem to assume that because AES is "uncrackable", and because Apple claims that they do not store the key, their implementation must therefore be uncrackable / without flaws.

      Anyone who has watched security for any length of time knows that "hypothetically uncrackable" is a lot different than "practically secure". Maybe they leak key details; maybe they dont properly santize RAM before the iPad powers down (and therefore it may be susceptable to a cold boot attack).

      Until some respected crypto expert looks at the thing, any declarations about security on the IOS are worthless marketing tools.

    3. Re:Lack of control? by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 2

      but I wouldn't trust one to keep state secrets...The man is just being sensible.

      Obviously in the minority, in the US anyway.

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    4. Re:Lack of control? by sjames · · Score: 2

      Maybe they hand administrative control over to any clown that says he's you over the phone...

  3. not the first story by slashmydots · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is not by any means they first story I've read about people getting an ipad for work and then finding it they can't make it do everything they want because Apple controls everything. It's not even mods or SD cards or custom software, it's that there's no mouse and keyboard or printing support (as far as I know) or apps to do things you need in the one and only app store. I've had several customers tell me that as they're buying a laptop from me. I've had vendors use an ipad to send me a PDF form to fill out and it's all screwed up with finger-checkmarks in the wrong place, wrong dates because the font was too small to read in that section, etc.
    If you want to do real work, get a real computer. It's kinda sad that Apple hates on Linux then actually released a product that's less functional, less flexible, and less compatible with other software than Linux. Hey, whatever helps lol.

    1. Re:not the first story by jedrek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it's that there's no mouse and keyboard or printing support (as far as I know)

      You... don't know. Here's a list of a couple hundred printers that work with the iPad, here is a roundup of keyboard/case solutions for the iPad from The Verge. I'm not going to search for mouse setups for a multi-touch device for various reasons.

      You know what really bugs me about your post? Since the first time I logged into slashdot, I've been reading about cases of FUD working against Linux and Open Source Software. Now I'm seeing Linux and Android fanboys with their heads up their asses, spreading the same kind of FUD. "Oh, as far as I know, it doesn't work with external keyboards." sure brings me back to the times of, "It seems to me that if it was good, they'd charge money for it."

      It's kinda sad that Apple hates on Linux then actually released a product that's less functional, less flexible, and less compatible with other software than Linux.

      Apple hates on Linux? Linux isn't even on Apple's radar. What they've made is a product that's more functional and flexible than a phone, while being considerably more portable than a laptop. They weren't trying to create a new laptop, they were aiming for a product between laptops and phones. Most people have extremely low demands of their computers. Email, Skype, a browser and a photo editing application. Hell, my girlfriend is technical enough to fix her own router, but I haven't seen her do anything on her laptop that she couldn't do on a tablet in the four months we've been living together.

    2. Re:not the first story by Infernal+Device · · Score: 2

      You should probably also mention that we're still in early iterations of tablet design and functionality - just as the laptop today is a supercomputer compared to early laptops, the tablets of the future will resemble nothing we use today (except maybe form factor).

      --
      "My God...it's full of trolls!"
    3. Re:not the first story by Desler · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://www.apple.com/ipad/accessories/

      Apple Wireless Keyboard
      The incredibly thin Apple Wireless Keyboard uses Bluetooth technology, which makes it compatible with iPad. And you’re free to type wherever you like — with the keyboard in front of your iPad or on your lap.

      AirPrint

      This took 2 seconds to find. It's amazing how low the bar for 'insightful' and 'nformative' mods is these days. Apparently all you have to do is make ignorant anti-Apple statements.

    4. Re:not the first story by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Informative

      You... don't know. Here's a list of a couple hundred printers [apple.com] that work with the iPad

      The vast vast majority do NOT, unless you do some crazy hacks to set up an AirPrint service on your laptop to make it act like a print server for IOS. There are literally thousands of printers out there, and most are not AirPrint compatible.

    5. Re:not the first story by Stewie241 · · Score: 2

      Sure, but the refuted claim was "it's that there's no mouse and keyboard or printing support (as far as I know)". At least two of those three have been rebutted here.

    6. Re:not the first story by _xeno_ · · Score: 2

      Not to mention that, at least in my experience, the iPad only "works" with printers. The last time I tried to print something off an iPad using AirPrint, I had to reboot the iPad to even get it to see the printer. After which it did print - eventually. I'm not sure why it's so ungodly slow, but it is.

      But, hey, it "worked." After finding out the brain-dead way you turn off an iPad. (Yep, that's intuitive - hold the "lock" button.)

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    7. Re:not the first story by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      What the iPad offers is not "printing support" as it has come to be defined by common practice over the last 30 years of consumer computing.

      Some hack bolted on as an afterthought? Someone could be forgiven for not considering that "printing support".

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    8. Re:not the first story by jedrek · · Score: 2

      What planet are you from? Seriously? Alternatives to Windows are in direct, close competition since there's not a whole lot of them and since Apple is ungodly expensive and Linux is free

      Can we stop with the FUD again? If Linux is free then Apple is damn cheap since Mountain Lion clocks in at a whopping $20. Windows is extremely expensive, with Win 7 Pro Upgrade coming in at $170.

      If we're talking about hardware then realize that Linux does not compete with Apple as pretty much nobody no major retailer offers ready-to-go desktop products with Linux installed. Now, I have no qualms about calling Apple PC hardware a premium priced product. Please do realize that they have a total of 7 product lines, two of which don't actually exist among any other manufacturers - I'm referring to the MBP Retina and Mac Mini. Their ultrabooks are priced between Asus ($900) and Sony ($1800) for the $1100 MBA I bought last year. That's not 'ungodly expensive', it's middle of the road and it came with a Unix installed.

      You know what, prove me wrong. Show me the market where Apple is working against Linux on the desktop. The marketing strategies they've used to go after it, to combat it.

    9. Re:not the first story by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      I never saw too much business adoption of netbooks. But I saw a lot of people going from normal notebook to the iPad. Not always because it is cool. But more to the fact that they are smaller and lighter and run longer without a battery. The biggest use I have seen for them is for email, and keeping notes, most have an external keyboard attached to the case.

      Netbooks were a little bulkier, They needed to be wall charged, not USB charged with the PC next to them, or the USB port modern cars seem to have now. And their PC OS is slow and bulky compared to the more optimized portable OS.

      The people who do well with an iPad are the same people who never really needed a full PC to begin with.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  4. sounds like he might've had a sentient tablet by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Funny

    From the Google-translated story, a quotation:

    "Admin has access to everything. Tablet I am"

    Sounds ominous indeed.

    --
    10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
  5. Re:Ridiculous idea in the first place by falcon5768 · · Score: 5, Informative

    iOS 3+ is full disk encrypted. http://www.neowin.net/news/ios-encryption-is-impossible-to-crack-by-nsas-standards

    --

    "Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."

  6. Ah yes, Poland by Xtense · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The land I was born in, the land that I grew up in, the land that I live in and the land that I love... ...with some of the worst (or best, depending on your definition of the word) politicians I've ever seen. You have to understand - they don't use those iPads for anything other than browsing porn ( http://www.komputerswiat.pl/media/2012/187/2456339/porno-tablety-sejm-1.jpg ) or funnyjunk-like equivalents. They're wasting money - and they're wasting our money, because the iPads were state-funded. We're letting them do that - and there is nothing we can do to change that.

    This isn't just some generic "politics == stupid" sentiment - this is a matter of analyzing at least the major decisions of the last 100 years and coming to the conclusion that the decisionmakers are idiots. It would be at least comforting to know that the voters are aware of it, but no dice - politics in Poland are either a taboo subject or restricted entirely to the Internet - and we all know how debating on the Internet works. I can honestly tell you that no camp currently registered for voting into the Sejm (the Senate 2.0) is worth voting for. The two major parties, PO (centrist/right) and PiS (right/national) are so deep in shitslinging between them that they lost focus on running the country, which breeds tons of discontent and lots of potential for corruption, both internal and external - they were both caught in the act, too. The alternative parties aren't much better: SLD (left/social) are basically repurposed commies from the last system and notorious for their mob connections, Ruch Palikota (liberal) is led by a huge idiot who changes his views like a goddamn flag, and UPR (left social/right economy) is helmed by a guy who is first to rip off "working" solutions from other countries with no regard for both current possibilities or needs of Poland.

    This situation is perfect for PR however, since voting usually is not between "the best candidates" but "the least evil", so it just takes the right amount of spin to completely ruin a party's chances.

    But it starts to show. Voter participation is dropping with each term - which in the short term is very bad since it leads to fringe voting, but in the long run demonstrates that we're starting to get tired of this shit.

    It crossed my mind to post this anonymously to be honest, since Polish politics are a matter of very heated (and very vulgar) debate on the Polish-speaking Internet, but, ah well.

    --
    "We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams [...]."
    1. Re:Ah yes, Poland by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Your post indicates how much alike we all are, no matter where we are from. Corruption, like pollution, does not respect political or cultural boundaries.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:Ah yes, Poland by Hatta · · Score: 2

      This isn't just some generic "politics == stupid" sentiment - this is a matter of analyzing at least the major decisions of the last 100 years and coming to the conclusion that the decisionmakers are idiots.

      Sounds just like America.

      It would be at least comforting to know that the voters are aware of it, but no dice - politics in Poland are either a taboo subject or restricted entirely to the Internet - and we all know how debating on the Internet works

      Same here. They've made political discourse so unpleasant, you can't talk politics with family or friends if you want them to remain on good terms.

      I can honestly tell you that no camp currently registered for voting into the Sejm (the Senate 2.0) is worth voting for.

      Again, just like America.

      The two major parties, PO (centrist/right) and PiS (right/national) are so deep in shitslinging between them that they lost focus on running the country, which breeds tons of discontent and lots of potential for corruption, both internal and external - they were both caught in the act, too.

      Damnit, quit copying America!

      The alternative parties aren't much better: SLD (left/social) are basically repurposed commies from the last system and notorious for their mob connections, Ruch Palikota (liberal) is led by a huge idiot who changes his views like a goddamn flag, and UPR (left social/right economy) is helmed by a guy who is first to rip off "working" solutions from other countries with no regard for both current possibilities or needs of Poland.

      At least you actually have alternative parties. I bet they are on the ballot across the country too. Here we have exactly one third party candidate that's on the ballot in all 50 states, a "libertarian" candidate whose major accomplishment is privatizing the prison system when he was governor.

      But hey, at least you guys have a parliamentary system where voting for the guy you want will at least get you proportional representation in parliament. With our winner take all system, if you're not in the majority you have no voice at all.

      This situation is perfect for PR however, since voting usually is not between "the best candidates" but "the least evil", so it just takes the right amount of spin to completely ruin a party's chances.

      Which is exactly what has happened to US politics. The biggest dog and pony show on earth, and not one shred of legitimate debate.

      But it starts to show. Voter participation is dropping with each term - which in the short term is very bad since it leads to fringe voting, but in the long run demonstrates that we're starting to get tired of this shit.

      Same here. Few people vote because there are no choices worth voting for. But the media spins this as apathy about political outcomes, not frustration at lack of choice. We're going to have to get down to single digit voter turnout before people start realizing the people no longer support this system

      --
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  7. Local IT control, _not_ Apple. by Moskit · · Score: 4, Informative

    Guy lost his gov-issued iPad.
    Local IT admin said he can recover all his data and burn on CD, so MP doesn't need to worry it's lost. Data including his _private_ emails that was on iPad.

    This is what set him off to return the iPad. Not Apple control.

    Original iPad wasn't found he bought a replacement one from private money and returned it. Good guy!

    As a form of protest he posted "Admins have access to everything!" on his Facebook before returning device. 300 of government officials (out of 460) use such iPads for work.

  8. Re:Ridiculous idea in the first place by iluvcapra · · Score: 2

    These apps don't work unless the iDevice is unlocked when you plug it in, or you have the backup password.

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.