Slashdot Mirror
Former Xerox PARC Researcher: Windows 8 Is a Cognitive Burden
New submitter LiroXIV writes "You know you've messed up big time when someone related to the development of one of the first graphical interfaces for computers thinks you've messed up. Usability expert Raluca Budiu has shared the common conclusion for many about Microsoft's upcoming Windows 8; it's definitely not as user-friendly as past versions. Quoting: 'The advantage of the overlaid menu is that it preserves context. Cognitively, there’s more of a burden when you have to switch context twice (desktop->start screen; start screen -> desktop). There are reasons to force users to switch contexts, especially in the tablet or phone environment, where screen real-estate is a lot more expensive and a menu is forced to use only part of the (already-small) screen. In that situation, a separate page makes better use of the small screen space. There are fewer reasons for a separate page on a desktop – the start menu is a cheaper interaction than the start page.'"
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Then perhaps they'd quit their jihad on users.
Windows 8 is optimized for content consumption rather than content production and multitasking. Whereas content consumption can easily be done on other media (tablets and phones), production and multitasking are still best suited for PCs. Windows 8 appears to ignore that.
This is a very good insight, and probably the most concise explanation for why I don't like the Windows 8 UI. As a creator, I don't want all that extra crap getting in my way.
-d
"Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
Try to use it long enough in your desktop and you will use it with your fist.
Power users are not going to forgo the mouse and keyboard for non-mobile use until brain-to-computer interfaces are created.
Tablets and other small devices are hot now? let's tailor our new OS to fit them, make every icon and control oversized, every window maximized, and throw customization out the window. Professionals and other people with PCs and large screens? screw them!
Windows has had automatic window management for years. It's just not obvious how to use it.
You know you've messed up big time when someone related to the development of one of the first graphical interfaces for computers thinks you've messed up.
Nah, that hardly bothers me at all. I only really know I've messed up when the screams of terror start. And then suddenly stop.
There are fewer reasons for a separate page on a desktop
How about the OS being context-sensitive, and changing its behaviour as required on different hardware platforms? People would rapidly adapt to the inconsistency between hand-held and desktop devices - they already do it every day.
Microsoft, (along with the folks who created Gnome 3 and Unity), would be far better off adopting an inclusive strategy for their designs, rather than trying to shoehorn everyone's disparate needs into a 'one size fits all' GUI paradigm. And we'd all be better off if these head-up-their-own-asses devs would put aside their arrogance and deliver what people want and can use productively.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
What are you getting at? Moving windows is such a minimal task. It allows you to conform the desktop to your liking. Why you think removing that is a good idea is beyond me. What is you solution to windows? Driving cars in completely different to intuitively knowing what a user is going to do next. All your post amounts to is "Why can't my computer tell the future for me?"
The reason for the start page is to make the desktop look scary. Average users don't want to drop to the command line for any reason, the black box with cryptic commands looks scary and isn't intuitive to them. MS is introducing another layer on top of the desktop that really simplifies things. When an average user launches a traditional app, they will be dropped to the desktop, which will seem scary to them, the apps that run in that "mode" aren't as simple as they're used to, there's menus on top and tons of toolbar buttons instead of a dumbed down phone interface. This will force developers to adapt, because users will no longer want to run traditional desktop apps anymore, it'll seem too complicated.
Previously, users were forced to learn this stuff, but now that they know there's a simpler alternative, they won't want to, just like the command line. This benefits MS in that there will be a ton of new apps that work perfectly on their tablet. This gives an incentive to app developers; They will now have a reason to sell you the latest version. It benefits the Windows platform in general because the new users that are attracted won't be able to cope with a traditional desktop interface, and other OSes will look scary. More experienced users will know how to get around this stuff and run traditional apps, and won't be bothered too much.
Yeah, it seems really stupid to most of us, but we won't use it, but there are many business reasons for MS to force this start page and tablet interface onto users, it feeds into their new tablet strategy and throws developers a bone, and gives them a reason to focus on MS's tablet platform the way they do on iOS even without a large pre-existing userbase, simply because now average desktop users will be demanding apps in this format. So why shouldn't they do this?
Twinstiq, game news
Sorry, but I am missing your entire point.
Because computers can drive cars (which does not require any GUI at all, btw.) you are complaining the fact that you operate with keyboard and mouse?
What else do you expect? Operate a computer with a gas pedal and a wheel?
Metro is made for embedded systems. Think your car navigator, where you use a touch-screen on a relatively small panel stuck to your dashboard. You click "Directions" and say your directions out loud, the speech recognition will (or should) translate the speech into text of a the street address and there you go -- you got yourself a destination.
However a precise computer operations, that functionality is extremely limited. Try typing a word document or fill out a spreadsheet on a touchscreen of your car navigator (or a smartphone). You ain't going anywhere fast.
Have you used Windows 8 metro? I think you'll find that this does not solve the window management problem at all. It leaves me wondering half the time how I am going to get back to a window I just had open a moment ago. At least manual window management, as you call it, I always had the confidence that I wasn't going to lose windows want. Certainly, things could be much better, but this is a step backwards.
"You know you've messed up big time when someone related to the development of one of the first graphical interfaces for computers thinks you've messed up"
Regardless of whether MS has screwed the pooch with Windows 8, I don't think this claim is worth a shit. being related to the development of the first instance of something makes you a defacto authority on modern incarnations? especially in the technology sector this smells like BS. would the wright brothers be expected to provide valuable input on the latest stealth bomber?
-Lod
why do I still have to manually move windows around, resize them
Because any complex workflow will use more than one application and the computer can't know which information from windows A and B I want to have visible while writing/coding/whatever in window C.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Why waste a quarter of them with a stupid huge black bar running down the full length of the homescreen, making it look all lop-sided and amateur? Are we supposed, like, dig this as the trendy new way forward?
Actually, Windows Phone 7.8 and 8 is supposed to get rid of that.
Using Metro aka Modern instead of the traditional desktop was never about usability. It was entirely about transitioning users to tablet interfaces and away from the traditional interface that people have used for years. Microsoft knows damn well that people will never voluntarily never make the change which is why they removed the ability to boot directly into the desktop.
By forcing you into "Modern" they are forcing you to use the new interface which /is/ usable - but only if your on a tablet. Obviously Microsoft thinks the future of computing is tablets and smartphones and not desktops. Witness the upcoming "Surface" computers and Windows Phone 8 platforms. Microsoft is afraid that the market is going to abandon the traditional desktop and is trying to position Windows as being an Operating System of choice for the tablets and smart phones. People simply don't think of Microsoft when they think of smart phones or tablets and that is what Microsoft is trying to change, public perception.
Windows 8 is a sacrificial operating system that is being produced entirely for this reason and we will see Windows 9 come in a very short time frame behind this.
This is not about a functional Desktop OS.
That is not the mouse Microsoft is currently chasing.
Microsoft is chasing the mobile-platform space and a tied application store.
Well, as far back as windows 3.1 there were options to arrange open windows. It's common to see a toolbar button or two in software that uses an MDI to arrange sub-windows in stacks or to tile them.
Why isn't it common? Well, it turns out that no one works that way. Most people work with apps in full-screen, switching between them when needed. For those rare weirdo's who do want more than one window open on the display at once, they don't want the OS deciding how to arrange their windows.
Required reading for internet skeptics
No. I completely disagree. The notion that the same interface is optimal for two extremely different types of input devices and screens is absurd.
The best interface for a big screen with keyboard and mouse absolutely cannot also be the most well-suited to a handheld touchscreen device.
I find it amazing how many people try to claim this is not true. Desktop computers and tablets/phone are not the same thing and do not serve the same purpose. I would much much much rather have two different and GOOD interfaces. With this, you will always have at least one shitty interface.
I would not complain about a metro-style UI on a tablet, but I would not use it on a desktop.
Maybe because we all have different needs and the best way to cater to all of them is to give something very flexible. That and you're comparing a handful of cars driven with extra car and professionals watching over it vs billions of people using computers for thousands of different tasks.
And how, pray tell, would you like the software to know what you want to do with your windows? How is it supposed to know if you want a window in the top left of your screen while another window is minimized?
Hi! I'm Clippy! It looks like you could use some help organizing your desktop!
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Anecdote:
At a recent family gathering, my father (who really is pretty sharp) raved about how the iPad changed his life. He talked about loading docs into the cloud so he wouldn't have to carry briefcases of papers. (And he's no PHP, he was talking about Dropbox and similar.)
I remarked, that style of usage doesn't work for me because I am heavily involved in splitting and re-splicing files, saving them, and more. At which point Father confessed to having a second Mac computer. But by then I had almost won the discussion, if you want to do hard file processing, iPads start to get seriously in the way.
The right tool for the right job. For some reason when it comes to computers or electronics people seem to forget this.
The iPad gets in the way because it is not the right tool for content creation. As you know (and your father learned) you want an actual computer for that.
I actually use a mouse with the right hand and a magic trackpad on the left hand (with different gestures). Very efficient, at least for me.
I actually use a mouse with the left and magic fingers with my right hand (with different gestures). Very efficient, at least for me.
Oh wait, you're not talking about surfing porn, are you?
Ceci n'est pas un sig.
It's a mobile device interface. Still, definitely a mistake.
Here's what I think happened: MS decided (along with half the industry) that tablets will gradually replace desktop computer and decided they had to invent a new GUI paradigm that made Windows tablet-friendly. Whereupon they made the same mistake they've made many times before — they forgot that many of their users still need the old paradigm. We're still using laptops and desktops; we're even plugging keyboards and mice into our tablets and using them as desktops.
I actually own a 10-year-old Windows tablet (running Windows 7) and except for handwriting and button support, Windows is not that different from that on regular systems. Pity they didn't consult the people who designed their existing tablet support. But they've probably all left the company by now, having been marginalized by the rest of the company for many years.
Look, I know you draw a MS paycheck, but give it up. It's not pinin', it's passed on! It's bleedin' demised!
But the coming generation is exposed to computing via smartphone first.
Correction: they've been exposed to electronic consumption via the smartphone, first.
Saying they've been 'exposed to computing' due to their smartphone is kind of like saying i've been exposed to the banking industry because I know how to operate an ATM.
What happened to "computing" equating with "able to operate more than a word processor, basic PIM, and email client"? We used to have a word for people who traditionally did that kind of 'computing' task: secretary. The people who did the 'real work' need a slightly broader toolset. Things like:
* media production tools
* software production tools
* engineering tools
* system administrator tools
* medical tools
Sure, there can be a great deal of 'dumbing down' in a lot of fields for specific things, and that's fine. But the people who do more than one or two tasks at a time (concurrently)? Yeah, we're going to need something better than what W8 has to offer.
For them, the desktop-as-smartphone will be no big deal, it will feel natural.
And, like the GUI people before them who were unable to replicate the more complex, advanced tasks of the CLI people, the DUI (Dumb User Interface) people will be unable to perform the same tasks as people performing GUI tasks.
(Meanwhile, CLI people will end up looking increasingly like gods.)
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
No, manual window management is not something that's a burden. Manual window management is there to accommodate the fact that most computer users have unique workflows that are not amenable to a one-size-fits-all GUI imposed on them. Additionally, window management takes mere seconds and is typically done only once, when an application launches. Most modern UIs will remember where the user put the window the previous time, and put it back the next time the application is launched, making this a set it and forget it task.
This is perhaps one of the most common and deeply flawed arguments that Gnome3 and Win8 defenders use - it's "time for progress." Here's the truth: Progress halts when an agreeable arrangement occurs. Drinking glasses have been the same as they are now for a very long time. Kettles for boiling water, wrenches, screwdrivers, eyeglasses, the steering wheel, the volume knob, each of these has been pretty consistent for decades or centuries. There's a reason for this - progress is NO LONGER DESIRABLE when an "interface" or utility object arrives at its ideal form.
What is counterproductive for every task, is designing a new user interface merely to distinguish your product from the competition and forcing hundreds of millions or billions of hours in lost productivity and retraining in order to teach users how to do the EXACT SAME TASKS they already knew how to do.
Look at it this way, instead of trying justify the new crop of terrible UIs that are embodied in Gnome3, Unity, and Win8, let's ask ourselves - what new tasks do they allow users to accomplish? Can you Facebook "better" or write a word processed document "better" merely because the UI has changed? No, that'd be absurd to claim. Can you program more efficiently with the new interfaces? Likely not, and in fact this automagic mind-reading UI disease that is ballooning into an epidemic is causing massive backlash among the developers.
Let's just call out these new UIs (mentioned above) for what they are - an attempt to create a one size fits all solution so that the teams creating them can claim that they run on tablets, phones, desktops, and laptops with equal ease. The problem with this is that the one size fits all solution is always going to be far from ideal for most of these devices, and it shows.
He has used Windows 8, enough to have said how awful it is. What does Android have to do with it?
It has to do with the fact that Windows 8's Metro interface has often been described as slapping a mobile interface over a desktop OS (like the poster at the top of this thread).
(Which, by itself is stupid and non adapted. Take any other OS: iOS and OSX share the same kernel, but different UI. Linux on the desktop uses KDE or GNome (and similar) whereas on the mobile it uses Android's UI, webOS's Luna, Maemo, QTopia, etc. Now why does the mobile's Metro has to be forced on desktop users too ?)
Now I think the idea which the parent poster is talking about, is that *even as a mobile UI* metro still sucks.
One of the complain of TFA is that metro forces the user to switch to a separate menu screen and then to switch back to a running application, which breaks the flow more than having the menu as an overlay above the screen (as are the "Start"-menu, the Dock, Gnome3's application start screen, and they equivalent in almost any other desktop environment). TFA concedes that it might make sense for a portable device, to sacrifice flow because of limited screen estate.
But according to the parent, even for a mobile device, it is still moronic. Android 4.1 is his example of an user interface which manage to give a menu of application without interrupting the flow. (And in my experience, same for webOS too. Although the "application menu" overlay is butt-ugly and the "search anywhere" is much more useful).
Switching to a separate launcher and then switching back to active application is a broken flow that I haven't personnaly seen since the old days of PalmOS (and a few dumb-/feature-phone menus) (and that was a technical limitation, because the OS wasn't truly multi-tasking and the launcher was actually another separate application).
So in end result, Metro isn't only a bad interface for the desktop, it's even a bad interface for a mobile device.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Apple realized UI paradigms are different and designed a different UI for iOS, knowing you can't stack OS X on a touch-primary device and have it work well.
Linux is another example:
instead of trying to cram a full desktop environment (KDE, Gnome, etc) onto a tablet or smartphone, all the companies which decided to use the Linux kernel for their smartphones/tablet/internet-enable-pocketdevice/featurephone/whatever took the Linux kernel (with either the regular GNU userland, or some embed userland like busybox) but developed/reused mobile specific interfaces: Android (with its own userspace), Maemo, webOS, etc.
In case of Apple, it is due to the way Steve Jobs used to work: he didn't think in term of business opportunity, but in term of product desirability.
He didn't want a way to cram Apple products onto a new type of device.
He wanted a device which simply did what *he* needed for his day-to-day usage, as simple as possible.
He focus on his own usage pattern, and neglects everything else. That avoid feature creep, "bullet point" approches, etc.
End result: A tablet which doesn't contain OS X, but is rather simple for the browsing needs of Steve Jobs, and by extension, of lots of consumer who don't really need that much.
Although Geeks, /.ers, and other "power users" will still complain that the device is completely under-powered and rather limited, the device is "good enough for Steve's day-to-day usage", which overlaps not too badly with the needs of a big part of the population. Beside their incredible marketing that's how Apple manage to sell "inferior" products like hot cakes.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Awhile back at my old job we started playing with windows 8 previews on various laptops. as expected using the keyboard and mouse, it sucked, but then we started playing around with it on an old touchscreen monitor, and it was actually good.
So we started experimenting with it using some students around campus. some students got the keyboard/mouse and some got the screen only. in those cases, the screen won hands down. In fact they seemed to pick it up almost instantly, where the mouse users tended to dart around the screen looking for apps.
The other interesting thing is that it seemed to be better the bigger the screen is. we put the same machine on one of our 6 foot smart boards on campus and did the same test that we used on the touchscreen. Students pretty much loved it across the board. a few even asked for win8 on all of the smartboards on campus. (which wasn't planned at the time)
Now of course none of this is scientific, and it was a small sample, (roughly 5-10 students per test) but the results are definitely trending towards touchscreen good mouse bad when it comes to Win8. Another thing that I wish we tested more was desktop interface on touchscreen. most of the people were told "this is windows 8 let us know what you think" and they could do whatever they wanted to it. They primarily stayed in the Metro interface almost exclusively. The other thing that might have skewed this result is that all of the students were about 20-25 ish years old, and almost all of them used some sort of smartphone, which might have helped win8 on the touchscreen side.
Regardless, its a hell of a gamble on MS's part. their biggest customers are enterprise hands down. Enterprise users will stay away like the plague. (unless they have a large POS or interactive rollout, it's pretty much a no brainer to put win8 there) Home users will most likely adopt it more with touchscreen hardware but the hardware is just not there desktop wise. with prices dropping on touchscreen systems daily, it might be coming soon, but I would say windows 9 will be out before it's mainstream enough to see enterprise adoption.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!