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NIST Publishes Draft Guidelines For Server BIOS Protection

hypnosec writes "The U.S.'s National Institute of Standards and Technology has come up with a set of proposed guidelines for security of server BIOSes— the mechanism on which most modern day computers rely during boot up. Recently quite a few instances of malware have been known to persistently infect computer systems, and cannot be removed even on OS re-installs. NIST is proposing a set of measures through which the BIOS can be made more secure and resistant to such firmware manipulating attacks. Mebromi is one such Trojan. NIST published the draft guidelines [PDF] earlier this week and has proposed four different features through which the server BIOSes can be made more secure: authenticated update mechanism; secure local update mechanism (optional); firmware integrity protections; and non-bypassability features."

141 comments

  1. Stupid and wrong by jmorris42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Locking the BIOS with signed updates and crap is exactly the wrong way to go. It means there will still be bugs to exploit. But the forces seeking to lock down the PC will advance yet another step under cover of security theater.

    The correct solution is to give the machine a one way gate so that after POST the BIOS can't be updated, period. Electrically impossible. That would require an updater in the BIOS and either storing the extended config now flashed into the same chip with the BIOS to either go elsewhere or the flash chip to be smart enough to have a protected area and an unprotected area and only the protected area be unrevokable without a full reboot. It also should go without saying that the BIOS can't look at the unprotected area before the big switch to prevent buffer overflow attacks from getting into the BIOS while the flash is writable and/or stopping the user from invoking a clear extended data function.

    A minimal rescue program in mask ROM would be gravy of course. Lets see the leet warez doodz get past that one. Wouldn't put anything past the NSA though.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
    1. Re:Stupid and wrong by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      For not much money, a pre-processor could check the status of the ROM-based bootstrap, then sniff the MBR and where it points to for integrity, then say, yo: CPU, go ahead. If the first X:Y bytes don't read correctly, throw a code and refuse to start. How much are small GPUs and slow ARMs? Gotta be faster than watching Dells and HPs boot these days (go get coffee, we'll be right back at ya)....

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    2. Re:Stupid and wrong by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      The correct solution is to give the machine a one way gate so that after POST the BIOS can't be updated, period.

      That would likely prevent BIOS updates from being provided by your OS vendor, which might not be the best idea. The correct solution would be to require that every BIOS update provided after POST be signed, while still allowing unsigned updates to be installed by the user manually from within a menu in the BIOS UI prior to booting.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    3. Re:Stupid and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it's easy.

      You pop up a gui that says "Insert a flash drive"
      "Warning flash drive will be erased!"
      format flash drive something bios can read, or start rom at first sector
      "Your system will now reboot"
      reboots
      BIG RED WARNING FROM BIOS "A BIOS UPDATE DRIVE HAS BEEN DETECTED. PRESS Y IF YOU ARE TRYING TO UDPATE YOUR BIOS NOW. BOOT WILL CONTINUE AFTER 30 SECONDS"

    4. Re:Stupid and wrong by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      instead, allow adding signing keys in the bios menu, so if you want to load your own bios you generate a key, type it in at bios, then install bios.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    5. Re:Stupid and wrong by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, it's not easy. A trojan horse can draw the same UI, write the same file to the flash drive, and a naïve user would probably dutifully follow the instructions because the user would not know any better. Your "solution" is no better than the status quo.

      Allowing a power-user (someone who knows how to hold down the magic keys and isn't afraid of the BIOS UI) to install an unsigned update explicitly and manually is one thing. Such a user can be assumed to know enough about what he or she is doing to understand the risks of downloading a BIOS update from an untrusted source. Allowing unsigned BIOS updates to be installed by average users as a part of their normal day-to-day update process, however, is another thing entirely, and is a very bad idea.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    6. Re:Stupid and wrong by EdIII · · Score: 1

      I think preventing casual bios updates from any source would be the preferred and correct solution for servers. We have a movement towards lights out datacenters, but even so, some things should just have to be done in person.

      I'm not opposed to BIOS updates only being performed from an attached flash drive and completely impossible while the machine is running as jmorris42 proposes.

      Also, remember how often people update BIOS in the first place. Hardly ever. How often is an operating system wiped to get rid of malware? A heck of lot more often. I would accept the trade off having a semi-permanent BIOS and confidence that is not compromised over some convenience any day. Especially on servers that can be running sensitive platforms.

    7. Re:Stupid and wrong by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      That's not significantly different than allowing an unsigned BIOS, security-wise, but requires a lot of extra effort if you're testing/developing custom BIOS firmware images. It's certainly a valid alternative; I'm just not sure it buys you anything.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    8. Re:Stupid and wrong by msauve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That would require an updater in the BIOS and either storing the extended config now flashed into the same chip with the BIOS to either go elsewhere or the flash chip to be smart enough to have a protected area and an unprotected area and only the protected area be unrevokable without a full reboot.

      Let me change that from something completely unparsable, to something simple.

      All that's needed is a jumper on the motherboard which must be closed in order to modify the BIOS.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    9. Re:Stupid and wrong by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      it treats all loading as a single class, image signed from array keys[]

      it would also allow you to import your key once and sign test bioses as you work without rebooting to load

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    10. Re:Stupid and wrong by VortexCortex · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ... And how is this different from secure boot?

    11. Re:Stupid and wrong by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I suppose updating your BIOS is not extremely common in the Windows world, though I've done more than one BIOS update over the years despite having used only a single-digit number of devices that actually have a BIOS, so it isn't that rare. And I would agree that updating the BIOS on server hardware is particularly exceptional.

      The problem is that whatever standard somebody comes up with for servers is liable to trickle down into consumer goods. We'd be better off deciding on a single set of good, sane standards that everyone can live with, including consumer product makers. Coming from the Mac world, where nearly every piece of hardware has seen at least one EFI or SMC update, making it "almost impossible" seems like a very bad idea for general-purpose hardware.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    12. Re:Stupid and wrong by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, my first thought was, if you want protected BIOS, I suggest it be read only, put it in a socket, and if needs an update, you have one shipped, or go to your local store and get one. Damned if the socket won't be bigger than the whole machine pretty soon...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    13. Re:Stupid and wrong by jmorris42 · · Score: 2

      You could still allow lights out. Most servers support boot over net so the BIOS is required to have a partial IP stack. Just allow bringing in the new BIOS via tftp from the IPMI remoted BIOS console if nobody is available to insert a USB stick and you don't want to allow reading it out of a FAT partition on the primary drive.. It could print an SHA-256 sum of what it downloaded to ensure you weren't hit by a man in the middle. Hell, it could even check a signature against a key in the current BIOS and warn if it was signed by someone else. Lots of possibilities. But if it is electrically possible to write the BIOS after the bootloaded is executed security isn't really possible.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    14. Re:Stupid and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was my thought. Apart from laptops and handhelds, which we're not discussing, you should always have the option of flipping a jumper. Considering how risky firmware updates can be, I can't imagine anybody doing those over the net without somebody available to fix the problem locally if need be.

      For my home computer, I'd love to have a switch on the case required in order to change BIOS settings and a jumper on the board in order to flash a new one. A similar thing for servers seems reasonable. Adding something the a required key or something like that to install a new OS or write to the boot sector might not be a bad idea.

    15. Re:Stupid and wrong by jmorris42 · · Score: 1

      Without a special flash chip or adding another one your simple electrical fix isn't practical. The ESCD info typically gets reflashed on a pretty regular basis if anything in the machine changes. To save cost it is usually in the same physical flash with the BIOS. Also, your simple jumper would preclude lights out server management.

      No, it has to be a gate that can only be cleared by a cold start once flipped on.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    16. Re:Stupid and wrong by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      If I remember correctly that's how it used to be. BIOS could only be changed by changing out the chip and re-flashing the EPROM (when we had EPROMs). But you're right, there are many powerful companies who are desperate to see the "top down" model enforced on computers, from entertainment companies to software companies.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    17. Re:Stupid and wrong by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      BIOS updates

      Honestly, how often do you update your BIOS? Drivers, yes. But BIOS? Have you ever "needed" to do it, in the lifetime of your computer? Apart from to correct bugs that never should have shipped in the first place I mean.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    18. Re:Stupid and wrong by msauve · · Score: 1

      If you change your hardware, you close a jumper (or a switch during boot). If you can't handle that, you deserve what you get.

      BTW, if the lights are out, you're not gonna be managing anything.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    19. Re:Stupid and wrong by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Signed bootloaders with hardware keys are exactly the right way to go, except that the implementation forces Microsoft software in this evolution. As in other realms Microsoft is trying to preempt our progress with the mandate that we also buy their products. But their products are not prerequisite to progress. They are anathema to it.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    20. Re:Stupid and wrong by chmod+a+x+mojo · · Score: 2

      I don't know about where you work / what shady operations you run with, but we don't let clueless idiot users either reboot or have physical access to our servers - you know, what the article is talking about- in any of the places I contract to. Either you are vetted to know WTF you are doing or you don't get to so much as SEE the machines.

      --
      To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
    21. Re:Stupid and wrong by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      OK, this is supposed to be for servers, only accessed by authorised IT guys. Simple enough.

      Let the hardware vender spend the half cent on a jumper right by the BIOS chip. Shut it down, pull it off the net, unplug the drive cables, etc. Plug in the damned jumper. Boot up, flash the ROM off a verified safe flash drive. Shut down. Pull the damned jumper. Hook the cables back up, hook back to the network, close the box reboot. Nice & safe, rig the BIOS where if the jumper is CLOSED, update is possible possible because the jumper controls the write voltage to the BIOS.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    22. Re:Stupid and wrong by crispytwo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Along the same logic, I would argue, why do we need to have the bios have built in writable flash memory these days? So many simple options to solve this come to mind, but if I really wanted to update the bois - which is incredibly rare - couldn't we be a little more hands on and use a USB key for example?
      here's a possible solution:
      - I could pull out a small USB drive/key from the special slot on the mobo
      - stick it into my USB slot on a running computer
      - write a new bios to it with my fancy updater tool - simple so far
      - stick it back into the mobo (it could even lock in with a clip for those who vibrate a lot)
      - (re)boot
      - new bios is read from the -special- USB.

      bonuses:
      - if something goes wrong - place in a new different USB drive/key
      - test with a different USB drive/key to see if the update is better, then update the special one
      - I can think of others too!

      what I mean by "special USB", is that it is only accessed and read by a booting bios, so doesn't have pass through or presence to the OS. It may be especially small.

      I seem to remember somewhere that we don't really need much of a BIOS since the kernels do all the probing for themselves a second time anyway, so in many respects we have 2 boots, once (slowly) in BIOS, which is promptly thrown away, and another in whatever OS you might load.

    23. Re:Stupid and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also was thinking of a jumper, although a switch on the front panel of the computer will be better, since you don't always want to remote the server from the rack to update the BIOS.

      Since ILO (remote lights out management of servers) has access to everything as well, I would say that ILO should also be able to access this switch. Although at some point it will probably happen that ILO will be broken into by malware, but it seems simple enough that it could be secured.

    24. Re:Stupid and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, don't have a switch, just only allow bios to be updated through ILO. At least you have to be logged into ILO to update it. And ILO is a separate computer in the server which is unaffected with what is happening on the main computer in the server.

    25. Re:Stupid and wrong by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      It depends on if you use the computer for simple file shares and word processing or if it is used for different things like application servers and so on. Drivers have bugs in them all the time. Some bugs simply cannot be worked around. Changes in the Kernel for windows XP service pack 2, ended up with quite a few bios updates and driver fixes (especially for printers) needing to be made. I've seen applications that caused memory issues that bios updates fixed too.

      It's like the old saying for microsoft office where 80% of the people will only used 20% of the features or something like that. The vast majority of people will not notice problems in what the bios and or driver update fixes. Manufacturers don't really create and release BIOS updates or diver fixes because they want to keep an idle team of programers busy for a while. It's generally to fix something and that something has caused someone problems.

    26. Re:Stupid and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now do that for 9000 machines, all plugged together per rack and per building.

      You also want to flash those drives and network gear occasionally. The NIST draft guide doesn't apply to these needs.

    27. Re:Stupid and wrong by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      We have a movement towards lights out datacenters, but even so, some things should just have to be done in person.

      What you need is a physical switch on the front of the machine and a robot to go and flip it for you.

      The robot can be padlocked when not in use.

      --
      No sig today...
    28. Re:Stupid and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suppose you know nothing about servers?
      BIOS in servers does a lot more than booting the OS, and there often are subtle bugs in the monitoring that need to be fixed by BIOS update.
      Professional working environments often specify a minimal BIOS revision before the system can be installed.

    29. Re:Stupid and wrong by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Secure boot works using a cryptographic signing system: The board will only boot code signed by one of the Powers That Be - an organisation big enough for motherboard vendors to bother including the public key for, like Microsoft. This places smaller, niche players at a serious disadvantage. Which is probably the idea. An alternative non-market-distorting approach would be fingerprinting: The BIOS/EFI hashes the MBR (plus however many additional sectors the MBR specifies in an agreed-upon location). If the result doesn't match a stored fingerprint, it can generate a warning and refuse to boot until the user either restores from a matching backup or else selects the 'I intentionally changed the OS' button - in which case the newly-computed hash replaces the stored one.

      If Secure Boot were really about security, that is how it would work. But it isn't. It's about creating a barrier in the market which can only be overcome with a pile of cash or good business connections, something that poses only the slightest inconvenience to Microsoft but a major difficulty to linux.

    30. Re:Stupid and wrong by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      It's just a more profitable model. Apple taught the industry that. Magins on hardware are painfully thin, but if you strictly control the hardware you can use it to promote all manner of far-more-profitable things. Like app stores.

    31. Re:Stupid and wrong by evilviper · · Score: 1

      And I would agree that updating the BIOS on server hardware is particularly exceptional.

      WTF are you talking about? Every time a server is having hardware issues, one of the first steps the trained-monkeys at Dell tell you to do is update the firmware (if newer versions are available), including the BIOS.

      Welcome to /., where a prereq for sweeping generalizations is that you don't actually have any experience in the field...

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    32. Re:Stupid and wrong by evilviper · · Score: 0

      if you want protected BIOS, I suggest it be read only, put it in a socket, and if needs an update, you have one shipped, or go to your local store and get one.

      That'll work well when you need to update the BIOS on hundreds of servers...

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    33. Re:Stupid and wrong by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      I have, there was a BIOS update that I had to apply that gave me better support for faster RAM on my laptop. That said don't forget we are talking servers here and server BIOS is a lot more complex than your average desktop.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    34. Re:Stupid and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Signed bootloaders with hardware keys are exactly the right way to go, except that the implementation forces Microsoft software in this evolution. As in other realms Microsoft is trying to preempt our progress with the mandate that we also buy their products. But their products are not prerequisite to progress. They are anathema to it.

      Nope, unless there is a simple way for me to sign my own updates. There are 'alternative' (made by third party, not the hw vendor) bioses around, and a way to load them is necessary. A jumper is fine with me - the datacenter with hundreds of servers might want a front panel switch so they don't have to open cases like hobbyists do.

      Bios updates aren't that often, and in a datacenter they are planned. Walking down the aisles pressing a few hundred bios switches every other year isn't that expensive. The rest can be done via remote administration as usual.

      No need for this signature crap, that makes customization hard. Whoever owns a data center may also have in-house competence to modify the bios a bit. All it takes is a good programmer, after all. The mod might even be something simple as adding "server owned by corp. X" to the bootup screen - makes it tricky for thieves.

    35. Re:Stupid and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For not much money, a pre-processor could check the status of the ROM-based bootstrap, then sniff the MBR and where it points to for integrity, then say, yo: CPU, go ahead. If the first X:Y bytes don't read correctly, throw a code and refuse to start. How much are small GPUs and slow ARMs? Gotta be faster than watching Dells and HPs boot these days (go get coffee, we'll be right back at ya)....

      Look at any old Linux install guide from the 90s and the first thing it will tell you is to disable MBR protection in your BIOS so you can install the bootloader.

    36. Re:Stupid and wrong by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      It used to take a socketed part, then it took a jumper or switch. I'd suggest going back to the jumper or switch. It's the simplest solution with the highest level of security.

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    37. Re:Stupid and wrong by mysidia · · Score: 1

      while still allowing unsigned updates to be installed by the user manually from within a menu in the BIOS UI prior to booting.

      I would favor, providing a mechanism in the boot menu for the user to add their own signing keys public RSA key, and set what permissions each signing key has.

      The the signing authentication method for BIOS, could then be re-used for "Signed MBR bootcode" verification, and optional signing of a temporary read-only disk partition for booting an integrity-protected lightweight OS whose purpose is to authenticate the user and load full disk encryption keys, then boot the OS/kernel from encrypted media.

    38. Re:Stupid and wrong by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's not easy. A trojan horse can draw the same UI, write the same file to the flash drive, and a naïve user would probably dutifully follow the instructions because the user would not know any better.

      Not, if the functionality was enabled only on a USB port inside the chassis, or via the Management controller virtual USB (e.g. iLO)

      The average user is not going to take a screwdriver, open their computer case, and find the USB port on the motherboard, to plug into.

    39. Re:Stupid and wrong by FlyingGuy · · Score: 1

      Back when I was coming up the only way your BIOS was updated was when you opened up the machine, pulled out the old BIOS chip and put a new one in. Yes stone age I know, but there was no way for code running on the computer to do anything to the BIOS at all.

      Sometimes to old ways are the best way. You want real security at the BIOS level? Burn the code into the chip. It is a one time deal. You need a bios update? The manufacturer sends you a new chip. Better yet, you want a better BIOS? Burn your own. Make the BIOS open source. Start a company that burns BIOS chips for anyone who wants one from a known open source binary that can be verified. There is a mass of opportunity here.

      Cost... Hmmm I wonder if the market would bare the cost if they true cost of all this security theater. I think they just might.

      P.S. Not only is it "stupid and wrong" but you are also "Stupid and Ugly" (c) Linus, if you go along with it.

      --
      Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
    40. Re:Stupid and wrong by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Security or convenience... Pick one

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    41. Re:Stupid and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >All that's needed is a jumper on the motherboard which must be closed in order to modify the BIOS.
      Yeah, let's send a physical person around to individually service every single user machine or ever single server if we need to do a firmware update, just like we had to do with OS installations and upgrades in the 1990s, only we'd have to physically disconnect and disassemble the machine too. Should be simple to do on a 10,000 - 100,000 person organization, right? Manpower costs? Scalability? Downtime? What are those?

      I realize most /.ers have never run a IT organization larger than their mom's basement but surely a microsecond of thought would have told you that the parent and grandparent posters are bleeding morons.

    42. Re:Stupid and wrong by evilviper · · Score: 2

      I demand both.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    43. Re:Stupid and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The original solution (signed BIOS) gives you both. You are the one trying to complicate things needlessly with extra hardware and ending up with an inferior solution that only gives you one of these.

    44. Re:Stupid and wrong by crispytwo · · Score: 1

      I sense sarcasm... and good point. No idea is perfect for every situation.

      After thinking about it a bit, it might just be a nice way to update the bios on 100s of servers.
      suppose this:
      You have 100s of extra USB keys (say colored blue), then update the bios on all of them the same way on your secure workstation. Spot test a few (or all of them) independently, and then walk through your server farm swapping the keys (old ones, black, with new ones, blue). Perhaps it can be hot-swapped - less server down-time.
      Since your requirements would be frequent bios updates because your server hardware changes all the time, perhaps there could be convenient accessible spot for the usb key for bios updates, or a single shared usb bios slot for a rack (some sort of auto-detect usb multiswitch comes to mind).

      Let your imagination go wild!

    45. Re:Stupid and wrong by evilviper · · Score: 1

      and then walk through your server farm swapping the keys

      Spoken like someone who has never managed a server farm...

      Server farms are lights-out. Having people walk around to physically switch around hardware is going completely backwards...

      To me, your idea reeks of bringing back the good old AT&T operators, manually patching calls through a switchboard... Positively primitive, extremely inconvenient, very expensive, and utterly impossible to scale-up.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    46. Re:Stupid and wrong by crutchy · · Score: 0

      whoosh

    47. Re:Stupid and wrong by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      If only they could have some kind of system where a physical device allows or prevents the BIOS from being modified. We could come up with some kind of crazy term for it, like "jumper" just to get really wild!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    48. Re:Stupid and wrong by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      And expediency gives them the excuse to hire maybe 5% of the IT guys they really need? Yeah, it cuts down the overhead when everything is running smooth as butter, but you hire IT guys to fix things when they fuck up. That's the whole point of having them there to begin with, otherwise you'd just hire a contractor company to come in and do the servicing.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    49. Re:Stupid and wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's a simpler idea, just make it so that to update the BIOS you have to close a physical switch inside the chassis of the computer requiring physical access to the machine. Problem solved.

  2. Step one? by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Step one: Kill UEFI with fire.
    Step two (optional): Everything else.

    I'm perfectly serious -- If you have UEFI, it doesn't matter how secure everything else is, you're screwed, and you're screwed because Microsoft asked the companies making the motherboards to screw you for the sake of adding yet another failed DRM attempt to their next operating system: Windows 8, "Explode On Launchpad Edition".

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:Step one? by Microlith · · Score: 3, Interesting

      UEFI is not the problem.

      The problem is that the security architecture that was added to UEFI was designed by Microsoft and (obviously) favors them completely. Unfortunately, they're the only OS level software developer in the UEFI Promoters group so they pretty much get whatever they want and, I suspect, can overrule complaints from "Contributors."

      A real fair solution would have had such keys administered by the UEFI Foundation and included the ability to auto-add keys from read-only media.

    2. Re:Step one? by Altanar · · Score: 1

      UEFI security architecture was designed by Intel, not Microsoft. Please, enough with the conspiracy theories.

    3. Re:Step one? by Microlith · · Score: 1

      Source of some sort?

    4. Re:Step one? by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      Source of some sort?

      Source. "The original EFI specification was developed by Intel and was used as the starting point from which the UEFI version(s) were developed."

      However, as you'll note; the only OS vendor participating in the UEFI trade group is Microsoft... so that should be a big hint about what UEFI is all about.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    5. Re:Step one? by Microlith · · Score: 1

      I know that it was built originally by Intel. They did it more than 10 years ago when Itanium came out. But the security infrastructure didn't exist until UEFI 2.31. That is what I suspect was designed by Microsoft. Your link doesn't say anything to that respect.

      that should be a big hint about what UEFI is all about.

      No, I can see the value in replacing the BIOS with something newer. EFI existed at all because Intel was silly NIH.

    6. Re:Step one? by Aryeh+Goretsky · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hello,

      A list of OS software developers who are members of UEFI:

      • Apple
      • Canonical
      • Cisco
      • Cray
      • Fujitsu
      • Hewlett-Packard
      • IBM
      • Microsoft
      • NEC
      • Novell
      • Oracle
      • Red Flag
      • Red Hat

      And there are also other companies who work in the same neighborhood (CPU manufacturers, firmware developers, etc.). Source: UEFI Membership List.

      While I understand (and, to some extent, sympathize with) the desire to hold Microsoft solely responsible for every activity in the computing industry, this is clearly a joint effort across the industry to replace a two decade-old invention whose time has come. And as far as I know, the largest installed base of UEFI firmware—albeit an older version of the standard—is Apple, a company not precisely known for having a cordial relationship with Microsoft.

      Regards,

      Aryeh Goretsky

      --
      Dexter is a good dog.
    7. Re:Step one? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      No, it's a standards group. That means every company has two goals in mind:
      1. Make it a good, workable, effective standard which solves all deficiencies of the previous standard in the most practical and optimal manner.
      2. Maximise their own business benefit from the new standard.

      Goal two usually means things like ensuring the standard can only be implimented using patents they hold. In this case, Microsoft's goal two plans included finding some way to obstruct linux, which is a looming threat to them on the desktop: Something simmering for years as a minor annoyance, but threatening to grow explosively any moment.

    8. Re:Step one? by Microlith · · Score: 1

      I see people keep throwing the list at me, without looking at the tiers.

      Simply sorting it for "software developers" is one thing, ignoring the membership level is another thing entirely. Microsoft is the only pure software firm in the Promoters group, who far and away pay the most for their involvement in UEFI.

      this is clearly a joint effort across the industry to replace a two decade-old invention whose time has come

      It is, but that does not say anything about the security mechanisms other than that the Contributors saw what was coming. I don't believe that they did nothing, but I suspect they were unable to change anything.

      And as far as I know, the largest installed base of UEFI firmware—albeit an older version of the standard—is Apple, a company not precisely known for having a cordial relationship with Microsoft.

      Which means nothing. Apple adopted EFI back when the first x86 Macs hit the shelves, and these days Microsoft and Apple seem to be more like foils for each other rather than actual competitors.

  3. Sounds good to me! by GNULinuxGuy · · Score: 1

    So glad this is finally being taken seriously! I've often wondered why we don't see more persistent infections given how firmware is handled these days.

    --
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    1. Re:Sounds good to me! by bmo · · Score: 1

      > I've often wondered why we don't see more persistent infections given how firmware is handled these days.

      Because writing malware for bioses and firmware means you have to be able to insert your bits of evil into firmware for a multitude of versions of Phoenix BIOS, AMI BIOS, EFI, etc. And that's hard work.

      Just look at the OpenBIOS project. Just trying to get that to work on a bunch of motherboards and to stay up to date is sisyphean.

      It's more productive to write malware for the OS. It's much less heterogeneous. It was blairq, I believe, on here that likened Windows to a field of cloned sweet corn's succeptibility to disease.

      --
      BMO

    2. Re:Sounds good to me! by Grave · · Score: 2

      Except that when it comes to servers, the differences are far fewer. Target just a few different variations of a Dell or HP motherboard, all with very similar architecture, and the potential for havoc is great.

  4. Why NIST? by Gothmolly · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Why is the government proposing any standards for computer BIOSes? Can you say backdoor? Can you say "abuse of the Commerce Clause" ?

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:Why NIST? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would say that an organization called the National Institute of Standards and Technology is exactly the type of organization that would set standards for computer BIOSes. Doesn't mean you have to follow them, if you're worried about it.

      All NIST publications are open and available, so it's not like they're going to sneak something in that no one knows about.

    2. Re:Why NIST? by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      AHEM.. You do understand that a single source to define standards of weights and measures is kind of one of the single most KEY parts of Commerce, right? That they were established to make sure that things like "a pound" are defined, and tested and validated.

      Perhaps you should read up on some of the other standards NIST has, like time. They are THE stratum 1 server for most people that use NTP. (time.gov).

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    3. Re:Why NIST? by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 0

      Uh if you don't like it do your own.

      Crikey.

    4. Re:Why NIST? by Esteanil · · Score: 0

      You know, the quote button is an excellent choice for good answers to stupid questions - then you can be modded up and he modded to oblivion, while retaining everything that was written... ;-)

      --
      I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
    5. Re:Why NIST? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would say that an organization called the National Institute of Standards and Technology is exactly the type of organization that would set standards for computer BIOSes. Doesn't mean you have to follow them, if you're worried about it...

      Well, I suppose if I walked around with the level of ignorance that you do, I wouldn't worry about it. I mean c'mon, we're only talking about a Government organization with the power and influence to turn "standards" into "mandates"...What could possibly go wrong?

    6. Re:Why NIST? by joocemann · · Score: 0

      You know, the quote button is an excellent choice for good answers to stupid questions - then you can be modded up and he modded to oblivion, while retaining everything that was written... ;-)

      I don't usually quote people, but I can tell you practice what you preach ;)

      .

      Ferrous

    7. Re:Why NIST? by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      You do understand that a single source to define standards of weights and measures is kind of one of the single most KEY parts of Commerce, right? That they were established to make sure that things like "a pound" are defined, and tested and validated.

      Rubbish. It's just another tool of a socialist government trying to control the people.

      In a true free market, sellers would be able to call anything they wanted to a "pound", and if a buyer wasn't aware of how much each and every seller's "pound" actually was, it would be their own fault.

  5. Easy solve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    Physical jumper to stop writing to the BIOS flash if it isn't set, and code in the rom to disallow bpoting beyond the post aside from the update if it is set. Impossible for any kind of automated attack, and servers should never get a deep update like that without being closely supervised anyway

    1. Re:Easy solve by NemoinSpace · · Score: 2

      A physical jumper would cost extra money. How about a NON FLASHABLE bios? - we used to have them. We used to have non shitty programmers that could write code that didn't have to be updated every 6 months. There was a time a flashable bios was justified. Now it's just a cross between laziness and DRM.
      Seeing this article reveals we have some very stupid people in some very high places in the IT world.

    2. Re:Easy solve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Non shitty programmers would cost extra money. Programmers that could anticipate and code for future hardware cost even more.
      Seeing this comment reveals we have some very stupid people in some very low places in the IT world.

    3. Re:Easy solve by cachimaster · · Score: 2

      A physical jumper would cost extra money. How about a NON FLASHABLE bios?

      No, sorry that's crazy. BIOS updates are essential to fix security bugs. A non-flashable bios would make your system *more* insecure.

      The physical jumper would help in some situations, but not all, let me explain: I'm one of the guys cited on that draft, we made a pretty generic bios rootkit that worked fine. One of our attack scenarios inclueded having physical access to the device before the victim, I.E. you receive an already rootkited laptop/PC. A jumper wont help in that case, only a signed BIOS would. It sucks because it smells a lot like DRM but very often security and freedom are mutually exclusive.

    4. Re:Easy solve by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 1

      One of our attack scenarios inclueded having physical access to the device before the victim, I.E. you receive an already rootkited laptop/PC. A jumper wont help in that case, only a signed BIOS would.

      And when the attacker inevitably finds an exploit and installs a rootkit anyway, they'll change the keys so you can't install the officially signed BIOS.

    5. Re:Easy solve by cachimaster · · Score: 1

      And when the attacker inevitably finds an exploit and installs a rootkit anyway, they'll change the keys so you can't install the officially signed BIOS.

      Exactly. You can't really protect a generic computer from unknown software bugs. Also if you have physical access is game over anyway, you could replace a big enough piece of hardware with a malicious one and that's it, pwned.

    6. Re:Easy solve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If someone is going to fiddle with your new machine before you get it, there's a lot more sinister things they could do and a signed bios won't matter.
      Regardless, I vote for bios on ROM. New update? Get the new ROM.

    7. Re:Easy solve by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      How about a NON FLASHABLE bios? - we used to have them. We used to have non shitty programmers that could write code that didn't have to be updated every 6 months.

      No we didn't, we had bugs that went unreported and code that didn't get fixed, ever.

    8. Re:Easy solve by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      If that scenario, the victim is screwd no matter how securely the bios is protected. Any attacker good enough to hack firmware should be quite capable of exploiting the hardware itsself. Time-delay system-killers, a hacked network card that starts sending duplicate packets to any IP that gives it a key string of bytes, a keylogger that stores the passwords entered when installing the OS for later retrieval (Possibly via hacked network card). It can all be done, because things like that have long been done to games consoles to make modchips.

    9. Re:Easy solve by evilviper · · Score: 1

      How about a NON FLASHABLE bios? - we used to have them. We used to have non shitty programmers that could write code that didn't have to be updated every 6 months. There was a time a flashable bios was justified. Now it's just a cross between laziness and DRM.

      This is idiotic. Back when those non-flashable BIOSes existed, the BIOS was damn tiny. These days it's still got all that legacy code, while also handling ACPI, power management, fan speed, configuring CPU/PCI/RAM bus speeds and multipliers (instead of jumpers of dip switches), as well as safety features like detecting when a system doesn't boot and going into safe mode so you can change those CPU settings again. The BIOS gets pressed into other use as well, including enumerating the USB bus to find bootable devices, managing settings for on-board graphics and sound, and even work-arounds for design bugs in CPUs.

      Seeing this article reveals we have some very stupid people in some very high places in the IT world.

      No, it's pretty clear the stupidity is localized right here on /.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    10. Re:Easy solve by fa2k · · Score: 1

      you receive an already rootkited laptop/PC. A jumper wont help in that case, only a signed BIOS would. It sucks because it smells a lot like DRM but very often security and freedom are mutually exclusive.

      If the bad guys had access to the internals of the computer, they could just physically replace the ROM chip, no? And they could make the hacked BIOS look exactly like the original. Even if the ROM chip wasn't removable they could connect their flasher device directly to the pins of the chip.

    11. Re:Easy solve by NemoinSpace · · Score: 1

      BIOS was damn tiny.

      exactly. increasing a systems complexity for the sake of convenience is counter to security. It was called a BASIC IOS for a reason.
      I can't guarantee that existing code is 100% non exploitable, but if you can't get it right after 30 years, you should be doing something else.
      This whole security scare is a false dilemma, people who need secure systems know how to do it. Companies who need to reinvent market share know how to do that too. There is a reason we use physical keys to control nuke's, rather than, say a garage door opener.

    12. Re:Easy solve by evilviper · · Score: 1

      This whole security scare is a false dilemma, people who need secure systems know how to do it. [...] There is a reason we use physical keys to control nuke's, rather than, say a garage door opener.

      You're the one making this a false dilemma... between absolutely zero security, and nuclear bunker-level insane security procedures.

      Your bank absolutely is not going to go for nuclear bunker-levels of security, yet a pretty good amount of security is needed there. Your proposal is... nothing.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  6. How about a physical lock on the BIOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of many options that I think should be implemented is a jumper on the motherboard that has to be shorted in order to make any change to the BIOS (settings, updates, etc). Run a switch (even a key switch) from the jumper to the outside of the case. When you want to change the BIOS you put the switch into the short position. When done set it back.

    Only draw back is it makes it difficult to make a change to the BIOS remotely. But if you are doing that frequently you can just leave the jumper shorted and find a different way to secure the BIOS. For companies with big pockets like Google or Facebook, they could put some sort of a remote relay on the jumper.

  7. BIOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you can't protect the OS (patching) how the hell are you going to protect the system from BIOS attacks?

  8. Management Port anyone? by Igot1forya · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think for high-end hardware for servers and stuff, an RS232 serial port only accessible when enabled for updates should be the only conduit for installing BIOS updates. Think of it as a management port. Us network guys do this already via SSH, Telnet and TFTP and you guessed it, SERIAL already. I don't know of any virus's able to jump a physical divide like a serial port.

    --
    -------- -1 for SUCK IT!
  9. Cow Tits Feel Good, But Come On.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Nobody Seems To Notice and Nobody Seems To Care - Government & Stealth Malware

    In Response To Slashdot Article: Former Pentagon Analyst: China Has Backdoors To 80% of Telecoms 87

    How many rootkits does the US[2] use officially or unofficially?

    How much of the free but proprietary software in the US spies on you?

    Which software would that be?

    Visit any of the top freeware sites in the US, count the number of thousands or millions of downloads of free but proprietary software, much of it works, again on a proprietary Operating System, with files stored or in transit.

    How many free but proprietary programs have you downloaded and scanned entire hard drives, flash drives, and other media? Do you realize you are giving these types of proprietary programs complete access to all of your computer's files on the basis of faith alone?

    If you are an atheist, the comparison is that you believe in code you cannot see to detect and contain malware on the basis of faith! So you do believe in something invisible to you, don't you?

    I'm now going to touch on a subject most anti-malware, commercial or free, developers will DELETE on most of their forums or mailing lists:

    APT malware infecting and remaining in BIOS, on PCI and AGP devices, in firmware, your router (many routers are forced to place backdoors in their firmware for their government) your NIC, and many other devices.

    Where are the commercial or free anti-malware organizations and individual's products which hash and compare in the cloud and scan for malware for these vectors? If you post on mailing lists or forums of most anti-malware organizations about this threat, one of the following actions will apply: your post will be deleted and/or moved to a hard to find or 'deleted/junk posts' forum section, someone or a team of individuals will mock you in various forms 'tin foil hat', 'conspiracy nut', and my favorite, 'where is the proof of these infections?' One only needs to search Google for these threats and they will open your malware world view to a much larger arena of malware on devices not scanned/supported by the scanners from these freeware sites. This point assumed you're using the proprietary Microsoft Windows OS. Now, let's move on to Linux.

    The rootkit scanners for Linux are few and poor. If you're lucky, you'll know how to use chkrootkit (but you can use strings and other tools for analysis) and show the strings of binaries on your installation, but the results are dependent on your capability of deciphering the output and performing further analysis with various tools or in an environment such as Remnux Linux. None of these free scanners scan the earlier mentioned areas of your PC, either! Nor do they detect many of the hundreds of trojans and rootkits easily available on popular websites and the dark/deep web.

    Compromised defenders of Linux will look down their nose at you (unless they are into reverse engineering malware/bad binaries, Google for this and Linux and begin a valuable education!) and respond with a similar tone, if they don't call you a noob or point to verifying/downloading packages in a signed repo/original/secure source or checking hashes, they will jump to conspiracy type labels, ignore you, lock and/or shuffle the thread, or otherwise lead you astray from learning how to examine bad binaries. The world of Linux is funny in this way, and I've been a part of it for many years. The majority of Linux users, like the Windows users, will go out of their way to lead you and say anything other than pointing you to information readily available on detailed binary file analysis.

    Don't let them get you down, the information is plenty and out there, some from some well known publishers of Linux/Unix books. Search, learn, and share the information on detecting and picking through bad binaries. But this still will not touch the void of the APT malware described above which will survive any wipe of r/w media. I'm convinced, on both *nix and Windows, these pieces of APT malware

  10. Servers are different by Esteanil · · Score: 2

    To put it very simply, servers need to be able to resist things like Blue Pill and other advanced persistent threats.
    This is vital for secure data processing and storage, and therefore needed by many organisations, businesses and governments.

    I can't wait until the first good, fairly inexpensive servers come with this option. That's the point at which I'm changing career paths over to Sales ;-)

    --
    I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
  11. The BIOS is not the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Retarded hardware that blindly lets you flash anything you want to the BIOS is the problem.

    This is not a matter of software security, it's a matter of low level hardware security. This isn't something we're going to fix with "security certificates" and bullshit like that (though I'm sure that's what everyone will resort to- signed BIOS updates, thus bringing the life of your average hardware admin one step closer to absolute hell). This is something that you can easily fix by requiring physical interaction with the hardware prior to launching an update.

    At the minimum, there should be a 1-bit DIP switch on the logic board of server spec gear that lets you select between the following:

    1) Updates can be applied directly from the OS, and are made active immediately after reboot
    2) Updates can be applied directly from the OS, but are buffered in a secondary flash chip and only dumped into the primary firmware chip if the system is halted and powered up by holding down the power button for more then 10 seconds

    If you've got the DIP switch set to #2, then anything can write to the firmware all it wants. It doesn't matter, because those writes are redirected to a secondary chip which are never ever executed by the hardware. It's just a staging area for updates, until someone physically starts the update procedure from the front of the machine.

    Of course the usual solution to this sort of thing is to just throw obfuscated crypto at the problem, so I doubt anyone will bother implementing anything like this. And in the end, whatever stupid solution they do come up with will likely be hacked by the underground in a matter of months, leaving everyone right back where they were before- with vulnerable systems that can be updated through software, except now the process for legitimately updating things is that much more complex.

    -AC

  12. Mod Parent Up - This is the best solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously.

  13. Guarenteed-clean factory reset by davidwr · · Score: 2

    Computers, especially servers, need a guarenteed-clean factory reset procedure.

    How it might work:
    IF you boot with a certain jumper set, an immutable "rescue BIOS" boots the computer into a "recovery mode." This may be as simple as booting off of a specific location, such as the first n sectors of whatever is on SATA drive 0. The "rescue BIOS" doesn't need to be any more complicated than a read-only copy of the real BIOS using factory-default settings instead of the "BIOS settings" the user or virus set.

    IF you have a known-clean, preferably but not necessarily digitally-signed boot disk attached, you will be able to clean your BIOS, and, once that is clean, the rest of your system. Presumably the vendor would supply a bootable DVD or CD for this purpose.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Guarenteed-clean factory reset by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds good... But I don't see this working if other components in the system have bios version dependencies. Back revving to "OOTB" could break compatibility.

    2. Re:Guarenteed-clean factory reset by davidwr · · Score: 1

      At the very least, the motherboard's essential components - basic video, keyboard/mouse/USB, network chipset, recovery-boot-device (e.g. SATA 0, but not necessarily the drive you normally have attached to it), etc. would work right. Once you've wiped and reloaded the "real" BIOS, you can use it to boot a known-clean disk and update to the current manufacturer's BIOS. From there you can boot to a known-by-you-to-be-clean disk even if it's on a device not supported by the recovery BIOS.

      Yes, this can be a lot of work, but the point is, you can at least do it.

      In a more typical server or pc-marketed-to-businesses scenario, the manufacturer's process would be something like this:

      All versions of the BIOS will have access to the tools listed below, but they shouldn't be trusted if booting to a suspected-corrupt BIOS.

      Hit F10 to boot to BIOS.

      BIOS menu would have the following options:
      1) Compute and show BIOS signature
      2) Clear non-TPM BIOS data
      3) Clear TPM BIOS data
      4) Flash BIOS

      Option 1 would display the version and signature of the recovery and "main" (flashable) BIOS, so you can compare them with known-good values provided by the vendor. If they match, your BIOS is not infected, but the BIOS data may be corrupted, which is what options 2 and 3 are for.

      Option 4 would load the new image from any supported device, BUT if it's booted from the recovery BIOS then only a specific "device" would be supported, such as "anything that looks like a CD or plain old disk which is attached to SATA 0," or perhaps a device specified by a jumper setting. This is to make it simple for the recovery BIOS to guarantee you are flashing from where you think you are flashing from and reduce the chance of human error, while allowing the non-recovery BIOS the flexibility from flashing from any supported device.

      --
      Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  14. 4 most important lines in whole paper by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Read carefully, this is very important:

    Comments on this publication may be submitted to:
    National Institute of Standards and Technology
    Attn: Computer Security Division, Information Technology Laboratory
    100 Bureau Drive (Mail Stop 8930) Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8930

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:4 most important lines in whole paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just make sure you reference what publication you are referring to. Not doing that is step on in getting filed in the "unable to respond" bin.

  15. Phrack citation by cachimaster · · Score: 2

    I find interesting that the draft cites a Phrack issue. If a NIST cite do not legitimize a journal, I don't know what it does.

  16. Physical hardware write switch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back in my old Amiga 1000 days, the firmware came first, and it was the 'kickstart' disk. After it was loaded (in firmware ram), it would be soft-wired off and the small bit of firmware that computer had wouldn't allow writes to those chips anymore. It might sound like 'the old days', but I wouldn't mind flipping a switch when updating bios rom, and after its written, it stays there as read only till you decide to update it again. It sounds like 'old timer days', but it sure keeps firmware malware out. Oh, and kill UEFI with fire!

  17. NIST made up of government desk jockies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It never gets much of anything done. Lots of talk, talk, talk, spread over years.

  18. simpler idea by amoeba1911 · · Score: 1

    how about this: make bios read-only, and include a momentary push button that needs to be pushed in order to make the bios writable for a limited amount of time. Is this too simple?

    1. Re:simpler idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how about making it open source...

    2. Re:simpler idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Came here for this comment...

      They used to have jumpers... You had to have the jumper set to update it. When done power off put jumper back.

    3. Re:simpler idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, this is the $.05 solution that trumps $20M in DRM research and development. But that wouldn't sell whole new generations of new mobos, so it couldn't even be talked about for secure boot solutions.

    4. Re:simpler idea by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Getting to a jumper is not always an easy task. When you have a 2 or 4 U server bolted into a rack of 4 or 5 other servers, it is somewhat of a major undertaking pulling it out, taking the cover off, hooking things back up to flash, putting the cover back on, then bolting it back in. You cannot always get to the back of them so holding it half in and out while reaching behind and looking at the reflections of a mirror to see what you are doing complicates things too. Also, when you have something like a 2 or 4 U server with a raid and redundant power supplies, they tend to get heavy.

      This is probably part of the reasons why you can flash bioses from within the operating system now anyways.

    5. Re:simpler idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But a big push-button with a flip-hood over it, nuke-launch style, wouldn't be hard to get to, even on a rack server.

    6. Re:simpler idea by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Or just use the papeclip-sized hole method.

  19. Not sure if trolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Congress has the power to ' fix the standard of weights and measures' by the constitution. NIST is the body that does that. They also happen to pay for a lot of measurements of material properties (density, hardness, etc) and publish them online for free. NIST does sometimes publish standards, but those standards don't carry the force of law, nor can NIST pass laws about the standards. If you want to be paranoid about government overreach, just watch congress, they're the ones that make laws.

    1. Re:Not sure if trolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How are BIOS implementation details a weight or measure?

  20. Too complex. Much easier way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Hardware jumper.

    Jumper on. Bios is read/write.

    Jumper off. (default) Bios is read only. Period. No exceptions. Not possible to write when its off. At all.

    Done and done. No signing anything needed. 100% under the control of the machine owner.

    Too hard? Make it a fucking button somewhere. Too insecure? Make it a key lock.

  21. How about non-writable BIOS ROMs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember upgrading the BIOS on my AT&T PC 6300 back about ... jeez, it was 22 years ago. The upgrade consisted of removing one socketed chip and replacing it with another. Quite a secure BIOS since you cannot write to ROM.

    Thinking about modern equivalents, how about storing the BIOS on a read only memory device again. SIM chips come to mind. Maybe create some sort of new device that would be equally cheap to manufacture. Sure, you would lose the ability to download a new BIOS and perform the upgrade via software, but hey, you can't beat the security of it. If the BIOS chip could be made a write-once device, then you could still have the convenience of downloading, just with the added step of burning.

    Some people might complain about physical replacement being impractical in a large datacenter, but having worked in a datacenter with more than 30,000 servers I can attest that this would not be a likely issue: we never did a single BIOS update in the 3 years I worked there.

  22. Hacked By Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We can say that the BIZOS is protected.. read th articles submitted by hackers The Hackers Idea

  23. With Intel... by stanlyb · · Score: 1

    With Intel chipset, i could say only one thing: FORGET about security. Why? Pretty simply, the chipset itself is with already built-in remote control module. Even before booting. Oh, nooo, not true, even if the computer is shut down (but is still connected to the power socket of course).

    1. Re:With Intel... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With Intel chipset, i could say only one thing: FORGET about security. Why? Pretty simply, the chipset itself is with already built-in remote control module. Even before booting. Oh, nooo, not true, even if the computer is shut down (but is still connected to the power socket if course).

      If you know your job you will configure the bios and bmc before anything else. Good secure passwords, disable or don't enable unnecessary users. Unless you need it, disable wol on nics and if you're not going to remote manage the bios or bmc at all and you have more than two nics use numbers 3 and 4.

      Done.

    2. Re:With Intel... by phreakngeek · · Score: 1

      What is the source for this claim?

  24. Easier by Weaselmancer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You should only update your BIOS when you mean to. I'm of the opinion that it's something that you should mean to do, not something that should just happen automatically ever. So it doesn't need to be writable 99.999% of the time. So how about a switch that toggles the write enable pin to your bios flash on the front panel of your box?

    Want to update your bios? Power down box. Insert CD or USB key. Flip write enable switch. Power up. Flash bios then power down. Flip switch to write disable. Boot.

    And for an added measure, don't let the thing ever boot from an MBR if the switch is in "write" mode.

    Easy peasy.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
    1. Re:Easier by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      You should only update your BIOS when you mean to. I'm of the opinion that it's something that you should mean to do, not something that should just happen automatically ever. So it doesn't need to be writable 99.999% of the time. So how about a switch that toggles the write enable pin to your bios flash on the front panel of your box?

      Sure would make updating the thousand-odd servers in our datacentres a bit of a pain. Especially the ones we don't have easy physical access to.

    2. Re:Easier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry but this "insert USB key" stuff is total nonsense. Vendors will just spend the extra $2 and include the flash memory on the motherboard to make it transparent. Useless complexity.

      Adding some obscure switch to hardware computers is also completely delusional. Servers need to be managed lights-out. Consumers won't know what to make of it (see ThinkPad wireless switch). It uglies up your laptop. Social engineering malware will convince people to turn it off. And Apple and Lenovo etc wants to funnel firmware updates through their normal updater.

      Signed updates make 100% total sense. The only reason you guys are coming up with these simplistic hacks is (possibly justified) industry political paranoia. Nobody cares. Come up with a superior technical solution then people will listen.

    3. Re:Easier by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      It doesn't need to be a hardware switch. It can be a simple non-writeable flag, the hardware designed such that once set it can never be un-set short of a power cycle. All the BIOS/EFI need do is set the flag prior to booting the OS. If you want to update the firmware, you'd need to do it through the setup screen, which runs before the OS. You'd still need physical access (Or at least a network KVM device) which is the only real way to ensure security for something this low level, but that seems to be a small price to pay. This isn't something that needs to be done to servers routinely, it's a once-every-few-years thing at most, and it doesn't even need them taken out the rack or opened up.

    4. Re:Easier by mysidia · · Score: 1

      So how about a switch that toggles the write enable pin to your bios flash on the front panel of your box?

      This sounds like a mess, as it would interfere with organizations rolling out common baseline BIOS versions, and upgrading them in batches, or make it prohibitively expensive.

      It would result in organizations adopting a standard operating procedure: Make sure the Write Enable switch is set to ON, and Epoxy it into place, to ensure BIOS update doesn't accidentally get broken in the future, by someone flipping it

    5. Re:Easier by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Admitedly i don't know what datacenters look lie, or how they operate. But if you have anyone with electrical knowledge wiring those switches together wouldnt be that hard. The motherboard could even have a standard place to plug them in.

      I like this idea, which i also had, and i could imagine anyone could think of it.
      It's simple, much more effective, and easy to grasp - which i think is important security wise. Since everyone can understand this simple concept, a switch, then it will work.

    6. Re:Easier by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      It's a BIOS. If it was working to get you to boot to begin with and your hardware functions then you don't really ned to change it, now, do you?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  25. Re:Too complex. Much easier way. by sumdumass · · Score: 1

    Too hard? Make it a fucking button somewhere. Too insecure? Make it a key lock.

    This is probably the way to go if a jumper is going to be required. You get a bunch of servers in a rack or cabinet and it starts getting complicated to get to the jumpers. But I would make it open nothing closed flash. This way if the wires to the switch get pinched and cut for some reason, it fails to safe (open- no flash).

  26. 9/11 by crutchy · · Score: 1

    hopefully its a little more thought out than their report on 9/11

  27. A switch is the answer - for BIOS and O/S... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is not that difficult to design the BIOS to need a H/W switch to be closed before update.

    Equally, it is not that difficult to design an Operating System to require a H/W switch to be closed before any update of critical components takes place. I have done that myself while working in the dirty area of a virus lab. That gives you strong security against any attempts to compromise your system.

    A lot of the current security issues which exist could easily be solved in this way - if only S/W designers would consider using a H/W solution...

  28. Move along, Nothing to see here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. all part of the Glorious War On General Computing Machines. Too dangerous for general consumption.

    Has everyone forgotten the concept of ROM? (That's Read Only Memory for you young'ins).

    Considering the average lifespan of a PC these days is 2 years or less, would it hurt to make the boot code read-only? It's not like the average user is going to shed tears 10 years from now that they can't boot Windoze 12 on the system they buy today!

  29. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's wrong with simply having a ROM bios, an EEPROM copy, and a motherboard switch?

    Switch position A: Boot from EEPROM and allow writes to it.
    Switch position B: Boot from EEPROM but do not allow writes to it.

    The boot sequence boots into ROM, checks to see if a key is held down (or some other hardware check), and if not continues from the EEPROM. If the trigger occurs, it boots into a mini-menu in ROM, giving the options to overwrite the EEPROM with a copy of the ROM contents or boot from the ROM image directly and bypass the EEPROM.

  30. Remote BIOS updates are sometimes needed by ultrasawblade · · Score: 1

    Given that the BIOS/UEFI is responsible for all the following:

    - implementing the braindead ACPI spec which is often prone to bugs
    - housing laptop's EC code in some systems which controls power management and the fans (not unheard of this to have bugs)
    - responsible for applying installed CPU microcode updates (fixing CPU bugs before the OS starts)
    - faking nonexistent hardware on dirt cheap systems via SMI (not sure if this is common anymore, and bugs may lurk here)

    in my humble opinion updating it is necessary from time to time, especially on OEM systems, to suggest a BIOS update as part of troubleshooting or issue resolution. It's nice to be able to do this remotely in some capacity rather than have to travel 450 miles to flip a hardware switch.

    This being said, can't they put the BIOS on an SD card now? Is a LPC (or whatever) to SD converter/translator whatever really that hard/expensive to build?

    This would allow hardware manufacturers to provide a UEFI compliant firmware for Windows, etc., let me completely replace it if it gets borked or infected, and let hackers have their way with it as well.

  31. Inject a key before reboot to allow nextboot flash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have jumper(s) on the motherboard to be really safe. This is what I would want and will allow data centers to handle it remotely as well.

    4 positions for the jumper set:
    1 - Impossible to flash under any circumstances. This is where I would leave my computers set.
    2 - basically just a signed update, where "signed" can mean "locally signed" - a locally set key in unreadable hardware is set at hardware install time. Send this key to the hardware while running. Wrong key sent? Options include "lock up", "ignore", "bios log", etc. Correct key sent? Next reboot is allowed to write to flash. Reboot. Write flash. Reboot. To get around this, you have to install a persistant threat. If you have that, you hardly need to modify the BIOS, except in case you get formatted.
    3 - Possible to flash, but only if the "Bios write protect" in the BIOS is turned off.
    4 - Possible to flash at any time.

  32. Re:Inject a key before reboot to allow nextboot fl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry, let me clarify.

    Flashing should be possible even with an evil BIOS already installed. Source of flash can be:
    - an application program running normally (e.g. normal OS or boot CD) (not successful under an evil BIOS)
    - a properly formatted storage detected at POST before running main BIOS (e.g. USB thumb drive which itself can be write protected cryptographically or with a jumper) (multiple validly signatured drives cause a lock up)
    - a write protected (by yet another jumper set) internal backup of the BIOS ROM. Effectively a built in version of the above USB drive option......

    These give data centers some options for remote repair, even with an evil BIOS already installed, which should never happen.

    They also allow familiar simple updates for normal users.

    They also give you certainty of a clean install, unless all of your IT staff's machines and drives are also infected with an incredibly complex evil BIOS that understands and works perfectly with all operating systems that you might boot (CD, HD, USB, Floppy, Network, add in card, Linux, Windows, DOS, Mac, all versions, including future versions, including timing attacks against the Blue Pill, etc. Although it may be possible for this evil BIOS to run correctly, it is impossible for it to hide from e.g. an unknown timing attack launched from a CD. Either it is detected, or the test is noticably falsified.

  33. more security! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    oh cool. locked down bioses .. now available to malware creators!
    prolly locked all your cars into the key oops. lockout
    "NIST published the draft guidelines [PDF]": too bad it's not in
    the guidelines never to open or use pdfs ...

  34. Signed updates? by Weaselmancer · · Score: 2

    Signed updates make 100% total sense.

    Because keys never get leaked or cracked, right? That never happens. Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to go watch a blu-ray movie on my Linux box.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
  35. I wouldn't say that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many NIST recommendation series are actually authored, wholly or in part, by industry professionals. Not in this particular case, but this is also a new, short publication that is narrow in scope.
    That Andrew Regenscheid has his name on the document doesn't mean he wasn't involved with others when coming up with the recommendations. He distilled down a lot of recent papers (from all sorts of venues) and prioritized the issues as they stand. His references for it are a goldmine of additional interesting stuff.
    Besides, this guy is a total nerd, he spent his PhD a few years ago working on hacking into voting systems. His judgement jives with what I'd like to see from the industry.

  36. Why not use a password? by sicarie · · Score: 1

    Large environments require BIOS updates more than the average user, and may require some type of update across hundreds of servers (or more) if a bulk-purchase was made. These need to have the ability to be scripted. A solution sacrificing both convenience and security would be to require a BIOS password to be set on first boot. This could be scripted so that when a server comes into a corporation, it gets a BIOS password, and then this password is required to write any BIOS (or even firmware-level update) to the system. Then the issues are losing the password - which could then employ a jumper to reset - and the encryption level of the BIOS password, which would be interesting after few years.

  37. secure BIOS confusion by przemekklosowski · · Score: 1

    So, for starters, people appear to confuse secure boot functionality in UEFI with secure BIOS upgrades. The former is required by new Windows 8 hardware profile and is provided as specified by the UEFI standard. The latter is what the NIST spec is talking about---to prevent firmware malware attacks. The idea is simple---during normal operation BIOS is readonly; firmware updates write the new image to a temporary area, and upon reboot the old firmware takes over, realizes that there's a new firmware available, cheks the crypto signatures to ensure the provenance of the bew image and flashes it if they're OK. Unfortunately, there's no single implementation and AFAIK no common signing scheme---this stuff is proprietary and board-specific. NIST spec might make it saner, by requiring conforming implementations. Does it prevent firmware exploits? Not quite, because there are option BIOSes that reside on PCI cards and such, and AFAIK they are not covered by the BIOS spec. Is it better than a jumper solution proposed here? I believe so: I don't want to go back to the old days of having to crack open the box and boot DOS from floppies; they may work for a single machine or two but are not scalable for realistic largish deployments.