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NCSoft Closes "City of Heroes" Publisher Paragon Studios

samazon writes "Earlier today, City of Heroes community manager Andy Belford announced that NCSoft is shutting down Paragon Studios. Over 7,500 individuals were viewing the official CoH forums as of 3:00 PM EST, and this thread from Belford, AKA Zwilinger, notes that 'In a realignment of company focus and publishing support, NCsoft has made the decision to close Paragon Studios. Effective immediately, all development on City of Heroes will cease and we will begin preparations to sunset the world's first, and best, Super Hero MMORPG before the end of the year.' A petition has already been created to save City of Heroes."

30 of 109 comments (clear)

  1. Being "Super" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There will never be a game like City of Heroes that allowed you such a level of creativity in bringing the inner superhero to life. I played for 8 years. It will be missed.

    1. Re:Being "Super" by iamhassi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      agreed. And this is why I've never played a mmorpg more than a few hours. I'm scared to death I'm going to invest some real time in it and then have someone kill it someday and watch everything I enjoyed die in front of me. That's scary, watching a life I created and nurtured be killed with nothing to show for it.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    2. Re:Being "Super" by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We are missing a great many early films from the cultural record because they were simply thrown away. It seems the same thing is happening with MMORPGs. Unfortunately, preserving a social interactive work is much harder than film. History will likely be blind to many major works of this still early age of video gaming.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:Being "Super" by bhcompy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      EVE.

    4. Re:Being "Super" by Teancum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would hate to think of all of the MUDs that have disappeared over the years... many of which also had tremendous communities and some impressive accomplishments.

      Still, I'd have to agree with your sentiment here. My only wish for something like this happening is that the developers dump everything into an open source license and tell the community "good luck" in terms of trying to make something of it. That doesn't help the game company itself, but it at least allows the potential for the game community to continue into the future.

      There ought to be at least some sort of value to opening up something like that... even if NCSoft simply tries to do something like a fundraiser to sell off the assets to some foundation in exchange for some reasonable amount of money. Blender was able to raise a bunch of money to turn that into an open source program, couldn't the same be done to a game like this?

    5. Re:Being "Super" by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Sadly friends when it comes to gaming we're losing a hell of a lot more than just the MMOs and MUDs.

      The big one that is gonna cause future game historians much grief is the incredible amount of Win9X games that will be gone. Tons and tons of games were released from 95-01 for that OS and sadly waaaay too many relied on "hacks" to boost the then weak performance of the systems. Thanks to Win9X being a 16/32bit hybrid with pracically nothing standing in the way of the coder getting "bare metal" you have games that used CPU clocks as times for events, used glitches in early OpenGL and DirectX implementations to boost graphics, its a fricking mess. Try to run games like i76 or Mechwarrior 3 or FFVII and you'll see what I'm talking about. And because so many of those companies were passed around from one publisher to another or died out the code is gone and the games themselves are often in a legal limbo where nobody knows who owns what, and of course the guts of Win9X were such a hodge podge and have so many copyrights and patents to deal with a DOSBox style solution for Win9X will most likely be impossible.

      So I feel sad for those future gamers, the early MMOs and MUDs, the tons of small developer games and shareware titles, a huge chunk of the Win9X games, all will be lost and unplayable. Its just sad how much of that early history we are gonna see wiped out, its a damned shame and a real loss to our collective history.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    6. Re:Being "Super" by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      If you think this is bad, wait until the various games with heavy phone-home DRM lose their publishers and/or get their auth servers turned off.

      We're living in what will be known as the dark ages of computer gaming.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:Being "Super" by zoward · · Score: 2

      ... My only wish for something like this happening is that the developers dump everything into an open source license and tell the community "good luck" in terms of trying to make something of it. That doesn't help the game company itself, but it at least allows the potential for the game community to continue into the future.

      There ought to be at least some sort of value to opening up something like that... even if NCSoft simply tries to do something like a fundraiser to sell off the assets to some foundation in exchange for some reasonable amount of money. Blender was able to raise a bunch of money to turn that into an open source program, couldn't the same be done to a game like this?

      Because of the number of IP's licensed for just about any large MMO - the graphics engine, physics, engine, maybe even the IP itself (eg, Star Wars Galaxies), there are usually legal reasons they couldn't open up the game like that. Also, at least for companies with more than one MMO, why would they want to? They'd just be creating a free competitor against any of their other games. Instead, they usually offer incentives to their departing players to transition them to another of their titles.

      --
      "Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
    8. Re:Being "Super" by Hatta · · Score: 2

      Wine already exist and if you don't like that, you can just use a real Windows95 and install it on a PC emulator.

      There's a lot of stuff that won't play on Wine. A lot will, but a lot won't. And 9x is officially unsupported on Virtualbox. It runs, but there are no guest additions. And who knows to what extent DirectX will work?

      I've wasted a lot of time trying to get 9x era games to work reliably under Wine or Virtualbox. It came down to being easier to just get a KVM and some vintage boxes. I got a socket 7 box, put a P200MMX overclocked to 225, put a copper cooler with an undervolted fan on it, an old laptop hard drive, a soundblaster with midi daughterboard and a voodoo card. It's the sweetest 1997 rig I can imagine, and it's damn near silent. That was a lot more fun than dicking around with Wine.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    9. Re:Being "Super" by srmalloy · · Score: 2

      Neither of the two subsequent superhero MMOs, Champions Online and DC Universe Online, even came close in character creation.
      I wonder why? That was what lead to alt-itis for me, filling at least 6 servers' worth of characters.
      It's such a fun, seductive part of the game, why does no other game pick it up and go with it?

      City of Heroes, and the other superhero MMOs, are probably unique among MMOs in that your character's abilities don't have to have any relationship to your character's appearance; this makes everything about the character's appearance open to customization, and you can retain that appearance all the way through the character's career, binding it up in what makes the character what they are. Fantasy MMOs, in contrast, are locked into what I call "you are what you wear" -- you may have all sorts of sliders and choices to customize the person of your character, but when that person is hidden by chest armor, gloves, helmet, leg armor, boots, capes, belts, amulets, et al., and carrying their weapon -- and each of these will change again and again over time as the character finds, makes, or buys better gear -- there is ultimately little you can do in character creation to make each character unique. Aion tried to give players some control over their characters' appearance by creating a mechanism where you could pay to have a piece of armor destroyed to give its appearance to another piece of armor, but that didn't change the fact that you can only choose to copy existing armor pieces, or that each visual 'design' is re-used over and over again for different levels of gear.

  2. So sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Rest in piece, Marvel DC wannabe expies. Long live..........um..........dark elves in thongs of shielding.

  3. Comes as a BIG surprise. by samazon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Only four months after Matt Miller promised "a ton of plans for content beyond Issue 24 and 25. We have a pencil sketch of the stories, arcs, zones, and trials for the next few years (I say pencil, because we still want to be agile and work to bring you things you actively ask for, things even you don't know you want yet!)" and less than two weeks after the release of a new power set. As much as I enjoy GW2, I am FURIOUS with NCSoft for pulling the plug on an eight year old game. The LEAST they could do is keep the servers up, or sell it to someone who will do so.

    --
    I have the hiccups.
    1. Re:Comes as a BIG surprise. by Scarletdown · · Score: 2

      I'm currently logged in on one of my characters on Virtue, and trying to keep up with the chatter about this in the global channels.

      One thing that has stood out there is a rumor is about the game engine that NC licensed from Cryptic when the 2 split. The rumor is that the license was for 5 years, and it is about to expire. Will need to wait and see if anyone who really knows can confirm or deny this rumor.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    2. Re:Comes as a BIG surprise. by HappyEngineer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why did anyone mod you up? When someone abandons a copyrighted property of any sort then it should enter the public domain. If the book, dvd, or whatever goes out of print then you should lose the copyright. If a game is no longer available for purchase or play then you should lose the copyright.

      Who gains when the government protects a monopoly on content that you refuse to provide to anyone? How is that promoting the arts in any way?

      If you want to keep the copyright then just make it available for purchase. If you care so little about the product then you lose rights to the product. I can't imagine any reasonable argument against this.

      People in favor of copyright are always saying that the creators should get paid for their creations. How are they being paid if they stop making it available for sale? The only possible response is that they want to restrict access to the content so that new content has less competition. That's a pretty poor argument for continuing a government enforced monopoly.

    3. Re:Comes as a BIG surprise. by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why did anyone mod you up? When someone abandons a copyrighted property of any sort then it should enter the public domain. If the book, dvd, or whatever goes out of print then you should lose the copyright. If a game is no longer available for purchase or play then you should lose the copyright.

      Who gains when the government protects a monopoly on content that you refuse to provide to anyone? How is that promoting the arts in any way?

      If you want to keep the copyright then just make it available for purchase. If you care so little about the product then you lose rights to the product. I can't imagine any reasonable argument against this.

      People in favor of copyright are always saying that the creators should get paid for their creations. How are they being paid if they stop making it available for sale? The only possible response is that they want to restrict access to the content so that new content has less competition. That's a pretty poor argument for continuing a government enforced monopoly.

      Given the practicality of duplicating copyrighted materials these days, I say we don't lose copyright protection.

      Instead, the instant something is no longer for sale by the creator, it becomes mandatory licensed, as in, a government-set fee schedule kicks in to compensate the creator, but anyone can then sell the good, as long as they had an original. And yes, any and all DRM can be broken in order to sell it.

      So the moment a book goes out of print, anyone who has it can freely scan it and sell it for whatever they want, paying the original creator the fixed per-copy fee. Ditto music, movies, etc.

      Creators still get their fees, public still has the goods, and libraries and other resources can make use of their immense collections to sell copies and make some money to support themselves. Google Books can continue to sell access or copies, etc.

      It also keeps copyright intact so open-source doesn't go public-domain accidentally - it's still copyrighted and users can pay the per-copy fee to use it under standard copyright laws, or obey the open-source license.

      Abandoned works can have standardized collection agencies (e.g., libraries) who can hold the fees in trust and use the profits and investments of it to help fund operations

      Once a work enters mandatory licensing, it cannot leave it, so if the original creator wishes to re-release it, he can compete with everyone else. The government set fee will be less than the average per-copy royalty (say, 70%) for that type of work (this is to encourage authors who wish not to participate to simply keep said book available for sale). So if all book authors earned on average (including first time authors through to bestselling authors) of $5 per copy of the book (probably a bit on the high side but it's just a number I picked out of thin air), the per-copy fee for any book will be $3.50. Ebook websites can compete against each other - I suspect after costs the price will be $3.75 or so for out of print, but not out of copyright books.

      Same goes for other works.

    4. Re:Comes as a BIG surprise. by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I can see that. After all, nobody buys a game when it comes out, everyone's just waiting for it to get to the bargain bin...

      And currently the creators of games can even keep you from reverse engineering and providing servers for games they "abandoned" and don't plan to offer anymore. Tabula Rasa actually provides a good example of that. A few people sat down and reversed the server code, they actually got pretty far and had a pretty nice looking alpha ready when NC sent a C&D letter.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  4. A bit sad to see by Galaga88 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I haven't played the game in years, but it was the only MMORPG I ever played in which I actually made it to the endgame.

    The combat seemed faster paced and generally less grindy than other MMORPGs at the time.

    It helped that I played a Tanker, which was a horribly unbalanced class at the time. I remember forming a team, and single-handedly holding aggro on an entire instance worth of mobs, herding them into a corner, and letting the blasters let loose all at once. Good times.

    1. Re:A bit sad to see by sheetsda · · Score: 2

      less grindy than other MMORPGs at the time.
      Missions that consist entirely of [Go here|Kill some things|Click on something]{pick 1-3} were painfully boring so grinding was the way forward for a lot of us.

      It helped that I played a Tanker, which was a horribly unbalanced class at the time. I remember forming a team, and single-handedly holding aggro on an entire instance worth of mobs, herding them into a corner, and letting the blasters let loose all at once. Good times.

      I remember that too, it lasted a month then got nerfed, but it was CoH at its best - pulling and killing (no exaggeration) 200 monsters at a time is an epic and awe inspiring experience I have yet to see replicated in any other MMO.
      Speaking of nerfing...
      The method I used to grind my scrapper to 40 (Underlings or some class of tiny monster) got nerfed.
      My Fire/Radiation Controller got nerfed.
      Power leveling by forcing the average party to a middle player and using a high level player to kill high level monsters got nerfed.

      If there ever was a game that was "You will play our way or not at all" it was CoH. NCSoft did a good job of making my heroes feel less powerful with each successive patch and for me that made the game forgettable. And I only played from [release] to [release + 3 months].

    2. Re:A bit sad to see by Osgeld · · Score: 2

      horizions by atari, the grind on that make AO look like an action platformer ... the only game where I watched a bunch of people spend a month putting rocks INTO a cave, to mine it out (logic!), just so the first boss creature would appear in world. you couldnt take piss in that game without mining 100 tons of ore and harvesting 100 tons of food and a million units of lumber to end up with 10 arrows that sucked ass

    3. Re:A bit sad to see by Carnildo · · Score: 2

      If there ever was a game that was "You will play our way or not at all" it was CoH. NCSoft did a good job of making my heroes feel less powerful with each successive patch and for me that made the game forgettable. And I only played from [release] to [release + 3 months].

      That was Jack Emmert's legacy. Things changed dramatically when he left.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    4. Re:A bit sad to see by nitehawk214 · · Score: 3, Funny

      It helped that I played a Tanker,

      Well that's a new role: dps, heal, tank and tanker. How does ship-based tanker combat mesh with the other three roles?

      It's a support role... until you spring a leak.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    5. Re:A bit sad to see by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      "Grind" has many definitions depending on who is using the term. To me a grind is if you do something mindless over and over in order to get a benefit in another area of a game. Ie, you kill 1,000 boars until your eyes water just so that you get +3 on your Shoulders of Spikiness, that's grinding to me. But if you run the Instance of Awesome 1,000 times because you think it's fun then that's not grinding. Doing the same instance 1,000 times only because there's a remote chance that they drop Shoulders of Even More Spikiness then that's grindy.

      So if you run random City of Heros missions all the time and have fun doing that, then that's not grindy. Not having loot progression actually makes it _less_ grindy because you're only running the missions because you like to run the missions and not because you need DKP or gear.

  5. Re:Quality? by Local+ID10T · · Score: 2

    Was it really that good?

    No. But it was fun.

    --
    "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
  6. Re:GPL it? by samazon · · Score: 2

    Someone suggested that in the giant forum thread. The thing is, the people who still play CoH are SUPER dedicated. I know people who spend hours a day doing world-related stuff, who run radio stations themed around and listened to in-game, people who RP... If they open-sourced it, the current player base would probably only need, say, three servers - two American, one European - and a few people dedicated to making sure that if something bugged, it got fixed. I don't know anything about video game management or development though, so that's just my assumption. It could be that it's an unmanageable task by anyone but industry professionals. But IMHO, it's been running this long (albeit, I hear, with duct tape and bubblegum) - it couldn't take too much effort to keep the servers lit up.

    --
    I have the hiccups.
  7. Re:GPL it? by Carnildo · · Score: 3, Informative

    They can't. The engine is owned by Cryptic, not by Paragon, and parts of it (such as the physics engine) are licensed from yet other parties.

    --
    "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
  8. Re:awww damn by Sir_Sri · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It hung around this long, that says a lot. 2004 -2012 is a very very successful game.

    You can't expect a product to survive indefinitely if it can't attract enough customers to replace the ones who gradually attrition away. Even WoW is losing subscribers. The MMO landscape is changing a lot, the economy is bad, peoples tastes change, etc. It's possible the market has shifted and there won't even be another world of warcraft to follow, it will just be a series of smaller more casual niche games that are all free to play and only last a couple of years.

  9. Re:Sad to see it go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have 3 max level characters and 30+ alts in CoH, and consider it to be one of the best games ever. I played from 2004-2009.

    All the game zones are incredible, there is a massive amount of excellent PvE content. Most of the classes were unbalanced at launch, which made them incredibly fun. However, the lack of integrated PvP and crafting at launch held it back in my opinion, stemming from it's origins as a garage project before being picked up by NC. That said, the resulting hero/villain combat was hands-down the best PvP experience I've ever had online. I only left the game when the PvP action dwindled.

    When CoV was announced they began balancing hero classes and developing the PvP system, which was an awkward move, since people were used to tanking and DPS'ing 50 mobs at once. If CoH had launched as a dual faction, open-world PvPvE with crafting and economic structures, Blizzard would have had a serious challenger for MMO subscriptions.

    My all-time favorite MMO moment was the second CoV PvP beta, where everyone was allowed to make fully slotted lv25 characters of either faction and stress test the new zone. It was all out WAR. At one point one side (I forget which now) had the bulk of the other faction holed up in their hospital, with assassins teleporting around the laser defenses and killing players directly in the respawn tubes. Reclaiming those corridors was the most intense group PvP action I'd seen until contested Abyss fort raids in Aion.

    CoH/V players are indeed SUPER loyal, it has always had one of the best game communities around. I will be sad losing all my characters, whenever I upgrade my PC I like to reinstall and tour Paragon and the Rogues Isles again, touch up my custom story arc.

    Oh yeah, you can make your own mobs and levels, how cool is that?

  10. From the Titan Network by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you're a player of the game, you might have run across me at some point. I'm TonyV, the creator of the Paragon Wiki web site and current owner and administrator of the Titan Network sites.

    I'm really hoping that this won't be the end of the game. I've posted a message on the official forums here (and on the Titan Network forums here discussing what I'm intending to do. It might not work out, in which case four months down the line, we're not going to be any worse off than we are today. But if you're reading this here and don't browse the official forums very often, please drop by. As the game's continued existence will depend on a crowd funding effort, we really need you to stay plugged in over the next few months. I'll post regular updates on our Titan Network forums to let you know how it's going.

  11. Re:American Thongs or British Thongs? by _Shad0w_ · · Score: 2

    My memories of Guild Wars are basically that, for female armour at least, the level of protection afforded by armour was inversely proportional to the amount of protection it afforded.

    Even when you get female armour that's moderately sensible - in that it actually covers everything the male armour would - they usually fall in to the trap of giving it boob contours. The thing about female armour is it looks exactly like male armour: by the time you have all the padding or harnessing you wear under your actual armour, there's no figure worth speaking about left, unless you have really pronounced curves.

    --

    Yeah, I had a sig once; I got bored of it.

  12. Re:Is that NC soft policy? by srmalloy · · Score: 2

    Auto Assault, Exteel, Dungeon Runner -- NCSoft has had a poor track record in the 'casual games' market, which led them to buy the casual-gaming company Ntreev for a reported $97.5 million. As a result of this purchase, the marketing costs associated with the rollout of the MMORPG Blade and Soul in Korea, "increased labor costs", and "disappointing performance" by Aion (a lower-than-expected number of microtransactions), NCSoft posted a $6 million loss for the second quarter of 2012, with a 12% decrease in revenue. City of Heroes, at the time of the announcement of its shutdown, was still running in the black, making a profit for NCSoft.

    City of Heroes has been an outlier in the games NCSoft ran; it didn't push you out into the game world to grind materials to grind skills to keep your gear from falling behind the power curve, it didn't keep you coming back to the in-game store again and again to buy stuff to help keep you from falling behind the power curve, and it was perfectly possible to go from start to level cap without ever having to team up. As such, it is the antithesis of the type of game that is NCSoft's bread and butter -- and while those games do well in the Asian market, where NCSoft makes more than 99% of its money, bringing that type of game to Western markets has been much less successful, as the failure of the above three games, and the 'disappointing performance' of Aion has shown -- while, City of Heroes flopped in the Korean market because its play style was so foreign to the Korean gaming culture. City of Heroes' admittedly moderate success in the Western market, while NCSoft's 'traditional' MMOs fail there, creates a conflict of image for the company, and eliminating City of Heroes returns NCSoft to being a provider of one style of MMO wrapped in different cosmetic shells, so the company can convince itself that it's the shell, and not the play style, that is making its games fail.