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Ask Slashdot: Keeping Personal Tech Cool In Extreme Heat?
An anonymous reader writes "I live in the Middle East. Summer temperatures occasionally reach 60C/140F, well over the operating specs for most consumer tech. Quite a number of work and residential compounds are secured, prohibiting everything from computers to cameras to phones to USB sticks to car remote controls. When I know that I'm visiting one of those compounds, I end up leaving all the tech I can at home or in the office, and only bringing a cell phone, and leaving it in my car. However, "only a cell phone" has quickly morphed into "only two cell phones, a car MP3 player and remote, and .... ooh, shiny... a new tablet... and an electric razor just in case I have to touch up before a party in a compound." I'm wondering what kind of technologies we have for keeping all this tech cool for four hours in the car. Overnight events might last longer, but won't be as hot."
Get on a jet and get to where it's cooler!
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_weather_records#Highest_temperature_ever_recorded
Keep it shaded if you can, because the glass can heat more quickly in direct sunlight. Your glovebox should work.
Of course, the best thing to do is not keep it in the car.
there will be an air conditioner outdoors next to the sun loungers, park the car under one.
Nullius in verba
Personal tech is inherently cool, and makes you cool too. Don't worry about it.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
with the optional refrigerator in the rear, accessible through a panel in the rear seat. This was a factory option in the W140's.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
Firstly invest in a better thermometer. The hottest temperature ever recorded on the planet's surface was 57.7 degrees C in Libya, in 1922.
I was in Texas at the end of July, and the average temperature was about 105 degrees F. I left my cellphone in the car to charge while I was out and about, came back an hour later and found my phone displaying the Termperature warning (which apparently kicks in at 113 degrees F)...
Ken
Never owned one myself, but they claim they cool 40F below ambient. Not sure what kind of drain this would put on your battery, but perhaps a marine battery could handle it.
If sharing a song makes you a pirate, what do I have to share to be a ninja?
I'd say a good portable picnic cooler with a few ice packs would work. You'd need to worry about potential water/humidity, so get a good sealing plastic sandwich bag with a double seal for extra precaution, then put a towel or something directly on the ice packs so that your electronics are not directly in contact with the ice packs. Should keep them in the 10-20 Celcius/ 50-70 degrees F range.
I live in Texas and worked in a prison where I could not bring my cell phone. I sealed it in a plastic bag and put it in an ice chest.
Keep it out of direct sunlight, and crack the windows. 4 hours isn't too bad at 140 F. It's the direct sunlight that you should fear.
But you're keeping things our of sight for teft protection, right?
You don't even need ice in it. Just the insulation will keep it far cooler than the rest of the car.
What's the next Ask Slashdot going to be, "How might I keep some refreshing beverages chilly at the beach?"
Get a big ass cooler, and start freezing liter bottles of water. LOTS of them. When you roll out, swap your ice packs. Park with your kit in a diving-style ziplock. The ice will melt quickly, but we're only aiming for, say, 40C, not actually cold.
Trying to keep things that go boom from going boom prematurely?
Get a cooler bag and an ice pack. Amazing technology.
harmonious design
For an hour or two an insulated lunch bag (under the seat) would be fine. For all afternoon a cooler (big enough for a 12 pac- er, nevermind) with an ice pack wrapped in a towel would do the trick.
How about a block of ice in a tub in the passenger seat? You'll have to drill a hole in the floorboard for drainage from the tub, but that's a small price, right? Requires no battery and no gasoline, and if you park next to a garden or flower bed even the drainage will be doing some good! As a bonus you can chip some off to keep your thermos of Dr. Pepper cold.
I live on a boat between lats 37N and 37S -
1) least expensive is to get a 12v Chiller and stick your items in there - and place it in a shady spot
2) you can increase the insulation with inexpensive bubble foam that has external reflective material - most refrigeration wholsale stores sell rolls of that stuff
3) you can also use a system of liquid frozen packs and swap them out - careful with condensation though - the lower the items are the closer they get to melting arease
4) buy industrial electronics who can stand the heat
5) if you can mount a small flexible solar panel on the inside of yoru car and connect that to your 12 v chiller you may be able to sustain the chiller - remember though to make sure the chiller is as small as possible to reduce the amount of chilling required
captain dietmar
If you can, park the car so your windshield will be facing the sun most of the time. Then take one of those reflective sun shades, affix some decent (but not terribly strong) magnets to it, and put that on the OUTSIDE of the windshield. This way, the heat that would go into the windshield is reflected before it even enters the car. I would also crack the windows a bit, and maybe try one (or several) of those solar powered fans that go in the window. You obviously want to keep your goodies locked in the glovebox as well. This lessens the chance of someone busting a window to steal them, but also keeps them out of the direct sunlight, which is your biggest concern where heat is involved.
Alternatively (if you can afford it), get a car that has a solar panel on the roof to run the exhaust fans even when the key isn't in the ignition.
"So after all this, you make my case for me. To end this stalemate, you must die..."
Small cooler with dry ice. Put it in the trunk. No worries about melt-water as it sublimates straight from solid to gas. Oh, and crack the windows FFS.
In Arizona, with a115F day, my truck can heat up pretty good... I use a small 12V cooler to store anything that can't handle the heat. I have a very heavy duty battery so the drain is not an issue. I always crack my back windows a bit to help keep the truck cooler and park in the shade if it is available.
I use a couple silicon packs in it to absorb moisture. Similar to what you put into safes to keep moisture out. I keep it unplugged if not using it. Coolers using Ice cause moisture and if you forgot to get Ice... This is always ready to use if needed.
A good thermal insulator coupled with some inherently endothermic reaction will suffice.
A multilayer design of styrofoam, or better insulation, coupled with ice, does wonders for beer.
In your case, perhaps you'd want to consider a vacuum thermos? They can keep coffee or soup hot for like a day or more. Or ice cream cold.
Back in college we used to catch the helium exhaust from the SQUID, created when the liquid helium evaporated, in a vacuum thermos. Then when the thermos was nice and cold, we'd set it down for a minute and watch air condense inside. Not a lot, but enough to amuse the freshmen.
Vacuum thermoses really don't conduct heat well. Get them cold and they stay cold, even with a temperature differential of hundreds of degrees Celsius. On the down side, drop something hard in there and they shatter.
There is a difference between "operating temperature" and "storage temperature".
When the ambient temperature is high, the temperature inside the device is higher (because there is thermal resistance slowing heat transfer from the device to the ambient environment) and deep inside those little plastic chips that dissipate all the heat, temperatures are higher still.
The classic harm from high temperature is that semiconductor impurities in silicon will migrate, and the other mash that makes up some other components will age and deteriorate. But if a device is turned off, the temperature inside all those sensitive components will not be higher than the usual temperature when operating. So turn off all those devices, and place the low (e.g. under vehicle seats) where temperatures will not rise quite so high.
Check the manufacturer's storage temperature specifications (although most manufacturers no longer publish technocrud like that). And of course, watch out for cosmetic components that might be aged by moderate heat that wouldn't bother silicon.
The one component where high storage temperatures are likely to cause aging is the battery. Lithium batteries are very sensitive to heat, aging much more rapidly over time when heated. So you might have to replace your batteries more often. Of course, if some devices have removable batteries, you could perhaps take them with you.
Does any of that really need to be on when you're nowhere near it?
Quite a number of [...] residential compounds are secured, prohibiting everything from computers to cameras to phones to USB sticks to car remote controls.
Dude where do your friends live? A little town called maximum security?
I can't believe people in the Middle-east don't already have tablets, MP3 players, and mobile phones. What are they doing? When in Rome ...
The Luddites were ahead of their time.
Middle East, eh?
Attach a solar panel to a actively cooled compartment (mini-fridge or otherwise), and store your devices there. More complicated solutions include aerogel insulation and a battery to store extra charge.
Shouldn't be an issue, because if the sun isn't shining it probably isn't going to be as hot.
Did you just recommend he put his electronics in a cooler with melting ice? You know what happens to melting ice right? It melts.
The more important question really pertains to the OP. Why the piss would you go to a residential compound which doesn't allow electronics devices? Obviously I understand the corporate situation, however most of those would have a security desk with lockboxes or similar.
You can dig a big hole in the sand, park in there, then cover the car. I think you can keep the temperatures down a lot. With a bit of trial, error and luck, you can even learn to hide the whole setup from terrarists and unsolicited aerial vehicles.
A USB solar panel charger and one of those USB mini fridges should easily run you well under 50$.
Maybe something like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Portable-USB-Fridge-Food-Can-Cooler-Freezers-Portable-Cool-Quality-Design-/160824707385?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Kitchen_Fridges_Freezers&hash=item2571e64939
And maybe this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOLAR-USB-BATTERY-CHARGER-FOR-MOBILE-PHONE-MP3-SILVER-/180963914978?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item2a224a34e2
Or maybe you can hook it up to the car battery?
That was always and still is generally true. New green/smart/buzzword friendly systems do adjust the power output according to need, as it consumes less energy to run a system at a low idle than to spin up the compressor and fan over and over.
Since, as others have pointed out, the ambient temperature isn't likely at 140 degrees outside the car, how about a solar powered fan that sucks cool in from beneath the car and blows it through your electronics storage compartment?
Cut a hole in the bottom of the trunk as an air intake, and set up the blower to suck in the "cool" air from beneath the car. Use a 30W solar panel (or pair of 15W panels) to charge a battery that runs your fan so it will continue to run for a while after dark until the car cools down. A 15W panel in full sunlight will run a 1 amp fan, so with 30W you can run the fan and charge the battery. The 1 amp fan should give you around 100 cubic feet/minute of airflow.
As long as the temperature in the shade under the car stays under your device's max storage temperature it should keep the devices safe. A thermoelectric cooler would give you a better margin of safety on a hot day, at the expense of higher current draw.
I assume that you are talking about storing the devices in the car, not running them (you say "operating temp" so I'm not entirely sure...)
Put sun shades on the car, and get a solar fan... if it's as hot as you say (i doubt it - hottest temp ever recorded is under 60C, and even that would be a very rare event) then these should be readily available - you open the window a bit and the fan sits in the gap and helps move air through the car, keeping it a bit closer to ambient. The result will be a bit more pleasant when you get back in the car too.
The boot is a better option if you don't like all the mucking about, but I like the idea of keeping the car cool(er).
In Australia where I live, 35C is common and a few days of 40C are expected every few years (47C a few years back!), and i've never had a problem keeping my laptop in the boot when the car is parked in the sun, without sun shades or fans, even though my car is a hatchback (with a glass roof) so the boot isn't really separated from the car (apart from no direct sunshine). In some cases I have even left the laptop sleeping rather than off, although that was probably a bit dumb on my part.
I don't know what the availability is in that geographical region, but about 1/4lb (or less) of dry ice wrapped a few times in a towel and stuck in an insulated (lunch) bag would probably do the trick nicely. Maybe use a rubber band to make sure it doesn't unravel and deep freeze an LCD or something. The temps will stay low and there's no water involved...
Why the piss would you go to a residential compound which doesn't allow electronics devices?
I imagine that's what he's getting paid to do. One could ask similarly why my current employer doesn't have me flying cool spaceships.
For most devices, the safe non-operating temperature range is substantially broader than then operating range.
The article mentioned the 3g & 3gs specifically, but I'm pretty sure it happens with all Apple phones - I have a dash mount for the iPhone 4, and in really hot weather with the sun coming through the window, in about an hour or two the device can get too hot and issue the warning.
If you keep it down out of the sun, it usually cools off enough to operate in a few minutes. It will also let you make emergency calls too, but all running apps suspend.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If the ice is in a ziploc bag and wrapped in a towel, then it's unlikely to leak.
So I can tell you've never actually tried that.
Because I've had ice leak through TWO ziplock bags, when stored in a cooler in a car. Cars get lots of shocks and bumps, things shift.
The towel would help with the condensation around the ziplocked ice, although I sure would not like to have electronics gear stored in the resulting level of humidity...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Be careful with using ice though, not because it leaks, but because it can cause condensation.
Yep works fine. This is what my uncle does, he works in heavy industry and in the very rare case when he has to do this that's what he does. He gets his backside shipped all over this rock fixing heavy machinery for the company he works for, and usually get treated by "x company" while there. Sometimes they have odd rules, one of the compounds he was staying at in Jordan no less, where they put him up to stay had a rule about no electronics inside. Which of course made no sense.
All of his schematics are on his laptop, which he needs to fix the machinery but he can't bring the laptop inside to look at it to figure out what's wrong. He ended up spending an extra week there because the only time he could look at it was either out in the parking lot at night, or when he was at the site.
Om, nomnomnom...
I like to go on long rides on summer weekends here in Iowa. I keep my lunch/dinner in a jando pack on the back rack. The box is black, so it heats up pretty fast on the outside.
The walls of the box have a 1/2" foam stiffener in them, which works a bit like insulation. Inside the box I place my food and drink, and I use a 1 liter bottle for cooling. Just take an empty 1L bottle and fill it mostly with water and freeze it. You can keep several of them in the freezer so you always have one or two froze solid. They're free, and can absorb more thermal energy than any ice pack you can buy.
So get a few of those 1L chilling, and get a regular food cooler, one of those 7x9x15" insulated lunch bag coolers. Place your gadgets in the bottom of the cooler. Lay in a little hand towel over the top of them to catch any condensation from the bottles, then add one or two frozen 1L on top. Be sure to get a bag that zips shut (not fold and velcro) and if it doesn't have insulation on the top or bottom, add something there so it's got some form of insulation all the way around. (my jando pack has no foam on the top so I added some filler to the pouch that is in the lid)
Even if you don't roll down the windows a bit or shade your windows (both recommended, especially the windshield, get one of those silver reflective things to put in it when you park) you won't have melted both of those 1L by the time you get back to the car. You may even be able to use just one.
You can further optimize the cooler by placing it on the floor in the back seat area, with a white towel laid over the top. Or add other simple insulation like throwing your jacket over the top, to stop direct sunlight from hitting the cooler.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Aside from cracking open a window, some tech is designed to withstand this sort of conditions.
My Casio GZ'one Ravine 2 has (from casio's website):
High Temperature MIL-STD 501.5 Procedure I 85C 96hrs
Low Temperature MIL-STD 502.5 Procedure I -25C 96hrs
among other things (theres also a Casio smartphone called the commando which has the same test results).
Panasonic's stuff (Toughbooks) is also designed to deal with high temperatures: http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/why-heat-resistant-laptops.asp (140 F operating, 160 F non-operating)
So on, so forth - you can find versions fo a lot of devices (for a price premium) designed to work or be left in rather high operating temperatures
Move somewhere colder. Let me phrase that differently. Move somewhere where you can walk outside and stand there for 1 hour without dying. Animals are smart enough to do it but it seems some humans aren't.
What is the motivation behind the ban? It doesn't make any sense to me; granted I'm just an ignorant westerner, but that's why I'm asking...
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
I think your stuff will be fine in the car, just don't leave a laptop running. Chips are meant to get really hot, and as long as the phone isn't playing angry birds with itself, it should be fine.
What? That doesn't make sense? But Space Elevators do?
When I'm traveling, camping, rafting, etc. I need to bring a supply of insulin pens and keep them cool. I've been using Frio Cooling Wallets for years and they do a good job of keeping my insulin within the acceptable temperature range, even under less than ideal circumstances. They are basically an inner pouch with a gel quilted into it and an outer pouch. You soak the inner pouch in water and evaporation keeps the pouches contents cool. The cooling effect lasts for days and you can reuse them over and over. Since you don't want to stick a MP3 player in a damp pouch you'd want to put your gear in a plastic bag first. You might have to get creative with something as large as a tablet though since the largest wallet is about 8.5"x6.5" but they also make other items with the same cooling gel but wrap around your head and wrists so there are options if you use your imagination... http://www.amazon.com/FRIO-Insulin-Cooling-Wallet-Extra/dp/B0002262IA/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1346475461&sr=8-6&keywords=frio
igloo box with icepacks? Enough and it should stay cool.
It's obvious to anyone who knows the middle east that you are talking about life in Saudi Arabia, most likely the eastern region near Dharan where all of the expat workers for Aramco live.
You need a Saudi solution to a saudi problem. Just leave your car running with the AC on. Gasoline costs $0.61 per gallon. You can leave the car running all day for $5. And if you are working in KSA then you can afford it.
Or buy a cooler and stuff it with those blue chemical ice packs.
I keep 2 iPhones, 1 iPod, 1 Pad and 1 iRazor in my car. Nothing happens to them coz Apple stuff are always cool.
Is it just me, or does this sound like the most awesome life ever? Staying holed up in secure compounds with armed guards searching for terrorists. Having awesome impromptu compound-parties full of fashionable people who carry toiletries with them to "touch up" first, all equipped with the latest personal tech. Driving between compounds at 2AM in high-speed convoys of black SUV's full of "touched up" partiers to get to the next venue. Danger. Intrigue. Slashdot-submitting geeks going to clandestine parties. Why am I here in the USA?
I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
Jam it in the fins of the fan outlet in your car with the aircon on full. That's all I got...
anyone got any info on the invention that uses solar to cool? perhaps the principles there could be applied
A blog I run for the wealth
Install your cars boot or roof with solar cells. That way the electricity produced will keep the interior (or at least a small area of it) cool enough. I did not see any solar cells landing in Dubai last summer, I wonder why? The sun is so strong there. And there are even talks to build a nuke power plant... why???
"If you're not allowed to bring electronics in the destination, why bring it in the car at all? Leave it home."
Because commuting in the Middle East without a phone is stupid, even in "friendly" areas.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I see people take their smartphone into the Sauna all the time where it's 200F. Then they shove it in their pocket which is soaking wet from the sweat or from the steam room they exited. Apparently nobody bothered to explain that these are outside of safe operating parameters.
I agree with the insulated lunchbox under the seat. Also, you might want to look into one of those units that you fit into your car window that uses solar panels to run fans to circulate the air in your car. If it's a 140f outside your car could easily go way over 200 internally.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
Hold it tight to your body. You are about 98ÂF (37ÂC) so you're much cooler than the tech or the environment. You're Fonzy like coolness will rub off on the device making it look cool too. Other people seeing this will say, "Oooooo!"
solar panel to power a small peltier cooler, dumping the heat outside the vehicle with a small exhaust fan?
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_2841984
If you can survive the heat, so can your electronics. Leaving it in your car is about the worst thing you can do. A car in the sun gets WAY hotter than ambient. If you can't keep them with you, make sure they are stored in a place that's in the shade and has free air circulation so it can't get much hotter than ambient.
This is the middle east. Just leave the AC on.
Operating temp and storage temp are completely different animals. The product doesn't have to meet temperature rise or timing specifications when it's off, so the temperature can be much higher.
I don't see too many components anymore with a storage temperature below 125C or 150C.
I don't know if it would work, but there are some small passive coolers made for diabetics traveling with insulin -- which is intolerant of temps above 80F (26C). The coolers are fabric envelopes holding a phase change material that absorbs heat at roughly 80F. They are "primed" by soaking in tap water for 15 minutes or so, and claim many (45 hours) of cooling. I don't know how well they would work in real heat or whether there would be moisture or other problems. Might be worth looking at. Frio is one brand.. As I recall, there are others.
Seriously, just power down your devices and leave them in your car out of direct sun (put a towel over them. You DO have a towel? Right?). The only thing that will suffer is the batteries. Li batteries will have a shortened life do to the heat. So just make sure you own devices that can have their batteries easily replaced.
Living in desert south west USA, we deal with almost the same heat levels, and this is what we've found to work.
No problem, as long as they are off because most of the components are going to be designed for much higher temperatures than 60C. The specified operating temperature is based a powered device, likely running at higher than normal power dissipation, and should have some head room for reliability for the weakest link (display, battery, processor, etc). If you turn the device off, than it becomes a matter of hot storage and not hot operating. Typically, in military electronics the hot storage temperature is about 30C higher than the hot operating temperature. You obviously don't have military grade devices, but many of the internal components have similar temperature ranges.
From a storage standpoint it is highly unlikely that you will permanently damage ICs, IMO. I would be more concerned about a device with an LCD display being damaged by temperature before any other component. Typically, the LCD itself is robust but many of the films that are required for LCD performance can be sensitive to high temperature.
Bottom line is storing you devices in the car is fine as long as they are off, and I would keep them out of direct sunlight.
It's the exposure to direct sunlight and the lack of adequate ventilation.
This solar-powered drink cooler could probably be modified to fit personal electronics better. I would test it for condensation first, though..
Elegance is for tailors. -A. Einstein
HUGE Security Resource+ - version 6000 - 08/31/2012
http://cryptome.org/2012/08/huge-sec-v6000.txt
The document Slashdot refuses to post!
They make small coolers that plug into the lighter. Cool it down while driving to work and toss your tech in when exiting the car. As it is insulated, this should help it stay cooler longer when not power is fedd to it. Perhaps some silica gel to help with condensation???
Did you just recommend he put his electronics in a cooler with melting ice? You know what happens to melting ice right? It melts.
Actually I recommended an ice pack. Perhaps you've seen one in a cooler once? They're usually constructed from ~2 mm thick polyethylene, so unless you're knifey stabby with it the blue gel doesn't leak out. They will attract a lot of condensation however, which would be a problem in Dubai and the UAE where the humidity is high. Thats why I suggested wrapping the ice pack in a towel: So long as you're not opening and closing the cooler every five minutes, very little air will be cooled below the dew point. As to why the OP would want to go to a residential compound where they don't allow widgets that may or may not have a camera: Where can you have a party in S.A. and not get in trouble for having a party? What happens to a woman in S.A. after a picture of them drinking booze at a wild party pops up on the internet?
Hi There, I also live in the Middle East. I have a car that is equipped with V-Cool, and an intelligent power bus (that prevents any single component running the battery flat). I keep my gear cool in a onboard fridge/freezer that I carry in the back of the car - it's the ONLY way to go. Even with V-Cool on all of the glass, there is still way too much heat absorbed by a car left out in the sun for even a few hours - sticking your stuff under seats, in the boot, etc., just doesn't work. The V-Cool film works - very effectively - but only to help the A/C cool the car down more rapidly and to cut down on inducted heat while on the move. For those who have never experienced this kind of heat, the 'locals' carry only the minimum in the car with them - generally only a phone - and take it with them when leaving the car. Luckily - in Riyadh at least - we do not have to worry about a build up of condensation inside devices that have been stored in the fridge. Hope this helps in some small way........
Try a couple of kilograms of Phase Change Material that would work at 55 C. It would absorb heat (find exact details on the web) melting and once temperature goes down would again change state. Has a long life and should work in this case.
-xa
a couple of kgs of phase change material (Silicon with paraffin) that works at 55 C should absorb sufficient heat (latent) transforming to liquid and then back again to solid when temperature is manageable. A couple of kgs should work good for about 2 hours but you might have to do some math to get exact volume etc.
-xa
I used to have the same issue going to oil and gas sites. Our temperatures never hit 60 but pretty close, what i did is buy a small thermal lunchkit. Keep it cool with a/c or the shade when not in use, then put your tech in and keep out of direct sun if you can. After one 12 hr stint, all my gadgets were cool to the touch.