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With 'Access Codes,' Textbook Pricing More Complicated Than Ever

jyosim writes "Some see it as the latest ploy by textbook publishers to kill the used book market: 'access codes' for online supplements for course work. In some cases professors require students to purchase these codes in order to even see the required homework. One U. of Maine's student's struggle to find a reasonably priced textbook demonstrates the limits the new publisher practices put on students, but some argue that ultimately the era of digital course materials will be better for student learning."

29 of 400 comments (clear)

  1. Businessmen by Tommy+Bologna · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They hate that you have the advantages they did in school. Now that they've crossed the bridge, it must be burned.

    1. Re:Businessmen by jehan60188 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      criminals. textbook publishers are criminals
      schools have already put into the cost of my tuition fees for maintaining blackboard. now the publisher turns around, and creates a similar site, with less functionality, and less support, and they expect me to pay for it. professors don't mind- they get free access, and the publisher will go ahead and put together a syllabus/homework/etc, so they have less work to do at the cost of the students already taxed pocket book
      criminals

    2. Re:Businessmen by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well.. Paul Ryan in particular. The government helped him through his tragedy with social security payments which he smartly used to get through school, and now he wants to be sure no one else can pull themselves up in the same way.

    3. Re:Businessmen by Jawnn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Jeez... Generalize much?

    4. Re:Businessmen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
      That's what I don't get. Somewhere along the way the "help everyone achieve anything," free-love, equality and peace messages turned into "Fuck you. I made my money and now that I have to pay in, we need to remove the social safety nets. OH, and not just that, but I'm going to make it that much harder for you to make as much money as I did."

      I understand that it's cliche and all-too circular to blame the generation before you for the world's problems, but the baby-boomers really fucked us. Raw.

    5. Re:Businessmen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It is Ohm's law applied to social dynamics: Whenever there is something you are internally compelled to do, the processes will arise that will force you to pay to do it. Even if you just happy for no reason, your happiness will be deconstructed and you will be offered to restore it in some buying way. Therefore, during the course of your life, you will see many of your rights, as well as Good Things In General, swept away from your hands in one way or another and placed behind the walls with restricted access. Governments will tax them or ban them, or highwayman^Wbusinesspeople will captivate and privatize them and sell them (or surrogates) back to you. If we were all to abandon our pur(cha)suit for happiness and just sit and meditate, it would have been claimed antisocial and dangerous activity.

    6. Re:Businessmen by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes he does, but he also describes an actual measurable trend(which doesn't apply to individuals, only the groups in general). There has never been a greater wealth gap between the 55+ demographic and the 18-35 demographic in the history of the united states. And it's REALLY substantial: take a look here. Now I'm not agreeing with the GP's Hitleresque means of addressing the problem, but it IS a problem.

    7. Re:Businessmen by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The Boomers was really a short sited generation. Their fight to stay young and relevant, created a situation where there was poor if any succession planning. Previous generations when they got into their 40's or 50's they realized they were getting old so they shifted their work from going further, to slowing down and teaching the next generation on how to take the helm. The Boomers were really the first youth culture, and they tried to keep it up as a generation of young go ambitious high energy people. Now their bodies are getting older and falling apart due to trying to keep the youth idea running. And not thinking towards the future generations but to themselves. So us Generation X and Y are fighting to take over, often overwhelming due to no training. We are making old mistakes over again, because we haven't been passed down any wisdom.

      It isn't about stupid politics, or how big a business is or how much taxes they pay... It is a culture where Me First was used. Now they are still in power and they don't realize how short sited the quick profit is.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    8. Re:Businessmen by characterZer0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This happens with every generation. The self-centered jerks reveal themselves as time goes on. The politicians are businessmen are mostly self-centered jerks.

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    9. Re:Businessmen by digitig · · Score: 5, Funny

      The Boomers was really a short sited generation.

      But at least we learned spelling and grammar. :)

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    10. Re:Businessmen by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's the baby boomers. They grew up in the drug-fucked 'free love' Sixties,

      And?

      got free education,

      So did my kids. So did you. College? Nope, we had to pay, too.

      raped and pillaged the environment,

      We were the generation that got the Clean Air and Clean Water acts passed. It was our parents and grandparents' generations that raped the environment; actually, not OUR parents but the rich kids' parents... who are now fighting for the end of the environmental regs we fought for.

      You sound like an unemployed white racist who blames blacks for his troubles and the black who blames whites for his poverty, when it's the rich of both races that are to blame. It's not my generation, it's the rich of all generations. Mitt Romney's "I like to fire people" isn't an opinion held by many boomers.

      The "bugger you Jack, I've got mine" isn't my generation's attitude, that's Mitt Romney and Donald Trump's income level's attitude.

      You're fighting the wrong enemy in the wrong war.

    11. Re:Businessmen by The+Second+Horseman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, but Ryan isn't a baby boomer. He was born in 1970, so that either puts him on the tail end of Gen X if you've extended past the "original" timeframe used for that term, or else early GenY. As a slightly-older GenX, I couldn't stand this kind of jackass 25 years ago, and I can't stand them now. He's clearly in love with himself, and how clever he thinks he is, and he somehow doesn't think he's relied on other people to get there. And let's not forget that he's only managed to get a couple of pieces of meaningless legislation (naming a post office and lowering excise tax on arrow shafts) through Congress in 14 years..

      Hell, he even thinks he's brilliant enough to reconcile Catholicism and Objectivism. That's a level of mental contradiction that's only possible if you're shallow or delusional - or you're just a power-hungry, cynical political hack who doesn't have any real principles.

    12. Re:Businessmen by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think so, as the generation that went through the depression and WWII tried to work together, not constantly stab each other in the backs.

      My grandma talked about how the neighbors and her would get together to make "hobo soup" so that those traveling the rails would have a bite to eat when they stopped in their little town, and in return, without asking mind you, she never had to split a single rick of wood and every chore that needed doing would be done by a hobo. The entire town looked after each other and if someone got sick or hurt the others would come round to help them get back on their feet again.

      It went from that to a serious "Fuck you I'm entitled and you're not" attitude which i truly believe came from being spoiled rotten. The previous generation had suffered and struggled and during the boom years of the 50s was generous to a fault with their kids, only the kids just took the cash and not the lessons to appreciate what they had and help those who had less. If you'd have pushed a Gordon Gecko style character in the 40s and 50s he'd have been looked down on as a piece of self centered trash, their kids looked at him as a hero and a perfect example of their ethos.

      Sad really but that's just how it turned out and now as they get old they scream and whine and demand million dollar treatments to keep their asses from the grave just a few more months.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    13. Re:Businessmen by drooling-dog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a tail-end "baby boomer", what has always struck me the most about successive generations is how incredibly passive they have been in the face of some really serious shit being done to them. This isn't about one generation screwing the next any more than it's ever been. It's about a war that's been waged in the U.S. against the middle and working classes (of all ages) for the past 30 years. Public education has been under attack, along with labor unions, Social Security, Medicare, etc. But instead of hitting the streets and demanding a better deal, all we've seen since then (except for OWS) is helpless whining and complaining, just like yours. And mine, too, for that matter, because times have changed and we've forgotten how to act.

      If your parents did you any disservice, maybe it was a failure to instill a sense of collective power and efficacy. But it seems that every generation through history has had to discover that on its own.

  2. Mark of a shitty instructor by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hey Kids!

    If your instructor is doing something like this to you, he/she is an asshole. If you can run FAR away or, if you can't avoid the person teaching, be cautious at every turn. If a prof is inflicting this type of B.S. on students then they another jerk you need to avoid in getting your education.

    The unis that I have worked at are trying to avoid this every chance they get by developing their own online course system or (ugh) using Blackboard. Most profs I personally know do things to try to avoid extra costs to their students. This type of behavior is the mark of a jerk.

    1. Re:Mark of a shitty instructor by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm going to take it to the 4th power and suggest that society is rotten at the core.

      Charging for an education is the instrument of a society that wants a debt-shackled workforce.

      When started my medical degree 20 years ago, my biggest expense was rent. By working summer jobs, living modestly, taking the government student loan, and with a small parental stipend, I was able to finish my course with a debt of less than £10,000 - and this was a 5 year course. I took advantage of the interest rate on the student loan being lower than the level of inflation and took my time paying it off - but I could have cleared it in my first year of work since a junior doctors job came with a rent-free apartment for a year, at the time (which is no longer the case, which amounts to a 20% pay cut) Even though I was only earning £21,000 [1]

      The tuition fees per year are now £9,000 ; I pity the younger generation.

      For programming jobs I wouldn't even bother with a university education now. Previous education was NOT a factor in my decision on any of my recent hires, just ability and experience.

      [1] The junior doctors salary of £21,000 (about $33,000) was a 1998 salary ; while working conditions have improved, largely through a reduction in the absurd number of hours you were expected to work (I used to clock > 80 hour weeks on a regular basis), the salary is now a mere £22,412, when inflation would suggest it should be around £32,000 ; while my hours were much higher than the current crop of doctors, for overtime I was paid a measly 1/3rd of my contracted hourly rate, which means a mere £5,250 of my wage was earned from overtime, despite it being more than half my working hours. Adjusted for this, the base salary should be £24,000, without overtime. If you try to convince me that junior doctors in the NHS are doing no overtime, I'll laugh at you. Cruelly.

  3. Re:Seen this in person by truesaer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My Chemistry professor last year told me each year the faculty votes on which book to use. The book publishers all come in, give a pitch, bribe them with gifts, and also provide canned lectures slides and assignments for the professors who don't want to prepare on their own. Thats how they get professors and universities to agree to this shit. I wouldn't be surprise if there is a full on kickback to the universities too...

    Whenever I see this "you need to have this special software provided only by the book company to do assignments for [extremely basic course]," that's a sign your university and/or professors sold you out.

  4. Re:Better or worse? by Wandering+Voice · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm back in school again after nearly 15 years and almost every book sold at the school bookstore was shrink wrapped with an access code. The worst offender I have encountered so far is my Math 060 book for Pre-Alg - after tax $233 (Pearson Learning Solutions). Alone, the access code was $120 about on the shelf behind the counter. This code and computer access is required to get our class notes and do our homework assignments. Thankfully, I didn't have to buy the iClicker remote for another $40. Still for a basic class like Pre-Algebra, I find this disgusting.

  5. Textbook prices by kwishot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The access codes are just one part of a bigger problem: textbook prices. For one class this semester, I was able to purchase a Kindle, the $50 lighted Kindle case, and the Kindle version of the textbook for a combined cost that is less than the price of the hardcover textbook.

    Also - it wouldn't be such an obvious scam if you could purchase only the access code and acquire your book from the secondary market. In all instances that I've seen, the access codes come only with new books.

    I'm always tempted to blame the professors for choosing course materials like this; however, on more than one occasion I've heard professors complaining about pressure to switch to the latest edition. Pressure from whom? I have no idea...

  6. Re:Better or worse? by schroedingers_hat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I had a prof who used one of these as part of a package deal type thing they got along with some (arguably very good) other resources. When people from the class told him about the issues involved (buying used books, strange deadlines, OS/screen size/browser requirements etc) he removed it at the first opportunity (sadly not during that course, as once something is set in the paperwork as part of the course assessment it cannot be changed here).
    Sometimes treating your prof as a human being works, try it some time.

  7. Citation Of Fact Needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    some argue that ultimately the era of digital course materials will be better for student learning.

    And some say that The Stig has three testicles, but only uses one at a time in order to prevent sextuplet pregnancies. But, the statement has no basis in fact.

    The web is not the least bit short of 'some saying' that digital learning is better than anything prior and those that question this "wisdom" are old luddites that fear change, lack vision and want to stymy progress. But, simply saying that repeatedly does not make it a fact.

    I'd like to see some fact based scientific evidence that these new technologies and techniques do in fact provide better learning that before. Does the online material for Chemistry 201 genuinely provide better learning than the third-time-used and battered text book originally printed 10 years ago? I just can't see how it can. The actual course material hasn't changed and simply replacing a paper book with an ephemeral online copy of the same doesn't seem likely to improve learning.

    I can see that the new online material can make for more profits, greater ease for professors, greater portability provided you've got power and internet where ever you go, and even greater ease for quick look-ups by students. But, none of those benefits prove greater learning. None of them prove faster learning, better retention, deeper or easier understanding...

    But, despite the lack of proof; "iPads for all students" continues to be a daily headline where 'some say it greatly enhances education' and no proof is ever given.

  8. Re:college is becoming a cash grab and we need bet by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, as I've said before we need to uncouple job training and university study again.

    University studies were meant for people that wanted to learn and study. Right now the whole meme is that you go to university to get a better job. There is nothing wrong with that, but that isn't what universities were created for. Not everyone should go to a University and there should be no shame in that.

  9. Just try getting an ISBN... by pongo000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been going around and around with Follett on this one. Under federal US law [1], colleges that receive federal money are REQUIRED to disclose ISBN numbers for course textbooks. However, the law also states that the school has the option of disclosing the ISBN numbers online with course schedules. So guess what? You actually have to register for a class at some colleges before you can get the ISBN. (This is, in fact, the case at Dallas County Community College District campuses.)

    Except for Follett. Apparently, even after registering, Follett doesn't seem to want to disclose the ISBN. On top of that, if you call a Follett bookstore for an ISBN (or visit in person), the minimum-wage earning salesperson will politely tell you they are not ALLOWED to disclose the ISBN, you have to go online to get it.

    More and more college bookstores are now closing the shelves to casual student browsers, so you don't even have the option of just picking up the book and looking at it for the ISBN.

    [1]http://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/leg/hea08/index.html#dcl

  10. Re:Rate them down by Stirling+Newberry · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "Look you get this free web site..."

    Please don't insult our intelligence, the e-sites reduce grading time. Charging your students for homework on top of tuition that is going up faster than inflation, and has for three decades, in the face of falling efficacy, is highway robbery of the young. You should be ashamed of yourself, but obviously are not.

  11. Businessmen my ass by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What is a 'wealth' gap? Who decides there is a certain amount of wealth that each age group is supposed to have, what are those numbers?

    Nice strawman. It's not about "deciding" how much each group is supposed to have (in a moral/deontological ethical way). It's about the gap between the two groups that is measurable (and thus comparable/quantifiable) accross the decades. The gap is there, it's measurable, it's obvious, and it requires explaining. Yours is not an explanation by any stretch of the definition. Furthermore, you are asking "who" "decides" how much each group has. That same question begets the following one: who decided that the income gap must be greater than the ones in prior decades/generations?

    Ok, so those in the 55+ demographic are the ones who started and built back in the 70's/80's many of the recognized companies that exist today and in doing so they made some good money. That is exactly what they intended to do.

    This would be nice and dandy if these were the very first folks in the history of the US who made up companies that made money. Alas, they were not. There were businesses and businessmen before them, quite successful and their companies still exist today. And yet, the generational income gap present at the times preceeding the Baby Boomers was never the way it is now. Hand waving is not a valid argument.

    Wonder what their incomes looked like 20-30 years ago when they were building their businesses (either as early employees of founders)? I'd be willing to guess

    Why guess? Verify.

    their incomes were not much different (in 70's/80's dollars) to today's youth, but their standards of living were probably lower.

    So if their income weren't that different from today's youth (which is not true), and their standards of living were lower (they were), then the income gap as measured today is greater than what it was in the past, say, as a function of the decade in which the measurements took place.

    So to the 18-35 crowd who hasn't made as much money I'd ask, where are the companies that you started?

    Red herring. Not every Baby Boomer was an enterpreneur, and yet the gap between the average Boomer and the average Gen X/Y is greater than the gap that same Boomer experienced with respect to his then senior. Ergo, enterpreneurship is not a factor. It is if you want to present a fallacy as a logical argument, though.

    Where are the years of hard work you put in building wealth?

    Where were the years of hard work the Baby Boomers put when they were young that resulted in a narrower income gap with relation to their then seniors, narrower with respect to the currently observed income gap?

    1. Re:Businessmen my ass by KhabaLox · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hand waving is not a valid argument.

      If it's good enough for Obi Wan, it's good enough for me.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
  12. Re:Never buy from the student bookstore by jmerlin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's these stupid elementary courses. Basic undergraduate things where professors who spend most of their time preparing material for their seniors and/or grad students don't want to have to sit down and plan out a semester for the class that has 20 different sections because EVERYONE has to take it. Take Trigonometry for example (calculus, algebra, physics, and a few others also fit this bill). The text I've seen used is $150. That includes a $70 access key. The access key works once. ONCE. The access key allows you to create an account on the publisher's website for that book. The account created lasts for 180 days, if I remember correctly. What it gives you access to is a digital copy of the book (in a web-browser only, not a PDF, they send you data page-by-page), and lacks all of the useful features a digital system should provide (the ability to search, the ability to tag notes inline, etc).

    All this hassle for what? The publisher created a system that would automatically generate questions for each class, and would automatically grade the homework for you (no more professor/TA slaving over your papers).

    The key itself is $70. You can buy the key alone. That's 180 days access to the book and the online course materials (generally required if the text is being used). Not only are these texts garbage on content, but a key to let you flip through pages in a book, do some e-homework assignments, and then lose access to the thing you paid for. Great. And what about the physical text book if you pay the $80 extra for it? Well.. it has less than a 1 star review on Amazon. Terrible text. Awful. It's also at edition 10, hilariously enough. Because elementary trigonometry is a cutting-edge and rapidly evolving field, right? And heaven forbid if you wanted to use edition 9 for your class that requires edition 10, because the access keys from versions before 10 DONT WORK ON THE COURSEWARE FOR VERSION 10. Holy shit. It's so abundantly clear at this point that these systems were designed to screw over students in the most obvious and terrible ways possible. At this rate, I expect in a few decades that all you'll have to do is pay, then wait a few years, and you'll be given your degree.

    Fuck modern texts. You can probably find a classic text on the subject you're interested in, or find what you need in research papers you already have access to via your university. Classic texts are TIMELESS, resell at 90-95% (in good condition), and your library (university or muni) probably already has at least one copy. They're also WAY better, and they don't have 20 editions after 4 years of republication. These modern "textbook" things are a huge, huge scam. So is most of the higher education system. To quote Good Will Hunting:

    See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life: one, don't do that, and two, you dropped 150 grand on a fuckin' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!

    A person who "learns" (it's more rote memorization of derivation and integration rules) calculus from a modern calculus text is woefully less capable than someone who can handle Apostol or Spivak. It's the difference between learning algorithms from some anemic cheat-sheet type Cliff's Notes reference and CLRS. It's dramatic and obvious. Spend your $200-1000 per credit and $150 on a text book that has no relevance outside of 4 months of your life if you wish, but when you want a real education, when you realize later on that you actually need to learn something, hopefully you'll better know where to find it.

  13. Re:Never buy from the student bookstore by TFAFalcon · · Score: 4, Informative

    One of our professors went a step further. He told us which chapters from a textbook we were going to need, and mentioned that he left his copy of the book at the local photocopy place (wink wink).

  14. From Experience as University Faculty: by cervesaebraciator · · Score: 4, Informative
    I can say the problem will not be addressed until the faculty address it. This will not happen so long as teaching loads increase because administration will not allocate new lines to replace retiring faculty.

    I say the former because I have addressed this problem in my own courses. Granted, I teach in the liberal arts rather than the sciences where the textbook prices are the most atrocious, but the liberal arts are trying desperately to catch up. Even so, when I build my classes I do so around primary texts which for texts up to the twentieth century are largely available in the public domain. My students simply access the material on their laptops or tablets even during class. I also give them a list of books upon request so they can buy paper versions on Amazon if they like. As for the role traditionally occupied by the survey textbook, in my way of thinking that is the purpose of a lecture. With well structured lectures and handouts, a textbook becomes superfluous. Using these methods, I have managed to get textbook costs down to $0 per semester. This has also led to interesting conversations with an incredulous university bookstore. As a historian I am able to focus on primary sources as I teach, but I do not see a reason a similar approach could not work in STEM (and my apologies if this is merely a consequence of my ignorance).

    I say the latter because the ability to do the former requires significant amounts of time. As our baby-boomer colleagues retire--and these make the bulk of faculty--departments are often denied funding to replace them. To cover basic course requirements, therefore, departments either have to pile extra teaching onto the remaining faculty or hire part time instructors. PTI's are becoming an ever larger part of faculties, but this is an unsustainable system. They're underpaid with no benefits and their situation has only been getting worse. At least at the universities I've worked at PTI positions pay no higher than they did more than a decade ago. As a PTI, I once calculated an hourly wage based upon what I put into a class and came out around $4/hour. This cannot last because even young, talented, and dedicated teachers have bills to pay.

    As for piling extra work on present faculty, this is how we end up with the textbook situation. Faculty at state schools often must teach 4/4 course loads, and sometimes more, in addition to committee, service, and research requirements. Under such time restraints, they tend to be rather open minded toward time saving short cuts. Enter the textbook publisher's sales representative. For those who're familiar with the sitcom Scrubs, this is essentially the same character as Julie Keaton, played by Heather Locklear, who pushed the side-effects ridden Plomox. Often a young woman who is all smiles, she offers copies of all their wares, course and lectures outlines, and sometimes even free lunch. "Now here's something," thinks the faculty member, "that will allow me actually to make it home in the evening to see my spouse, my children, and maybe even watch an episode of Scrubs or post on Slashdot. Besides, look at the big glossy pictures. I got complaints last semesters that the text did not have enough pictures." (And yes, the pictures are used as a sales point.) And thus the prof will receive a free copy of the textbook for which his students will pay $200, and he builds his entire syllabus around it. Then when the next edition comes out, and the online content ends, there's another turn of the knife. In the liberal arts, the texts are largely the same but for a few small changes the knock the pages numbers off. Old syllabi must be abandoned and old editions of the book will not line up with the new syllabi. Thus the system perpetuates itself.

    I am glad to work in a field where I can use the internet to make life a little more convenient on my students. I prefer to focus on primary sources anyway. For those in other fields, and indeed my own, I would propose this solution t