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Estonia To Teach Programming In Schools From Age 6
An anonymous reader writes "With the launch of the Raspberry Pi, computers are becoming affordable again for the younger generations. Now what we need is kids learning about computers in greater detail, including what the hardware is inside the box, and how to create rather than just use software. Estonia looks to be the pace-setter in this regard, and has just announced that it is introducing computer programming learning for all children attending school. By all, I mean from grades 1 through to 12, meaning children as young as 6 will be writing their own code and producing software. The program is called 'ProgeTiiger' and is being introduced by the Estonian Tiger Leap Foundation as a pilot scheme to some Estonian schools this year. Next year the program will expand, adding programming groups for older kids who want to carry on activities outside of the classroom. Eventually it looks as though ProgeTiiger will become just another standard part of the curriculum, just like math and language studies are."
That's the way to do it.
They say if you put a kid in front of a Logo turtle, tell him to type RIGHT 90, FORWARD 100, LEFT 80 and within an hour he is programming and not realizing it.
I've known people who were not technical or noted for their intelligence in any way who managed to do quite well in LOGO. I don't know if Estonia will use Logo, but teaching programming from a young age is certainly viable.
I can't honestly say I've endorsed a whole heck of a lot of ideas from Estonia, but this is a great idea. I only wish I could travel back in time and encourage my teachers to teach me and my piers programming at age 6. Then I'd probably be able to figure out this compiler error I'm getting right now.
But seriously, I hope that the U.S. adopts a similar program ASAP.
I'm sorry, but as an American this is embarrassing. With the amount of money we spend on education this is one of many things that we should have done a long time ago.
Good for you Estonia!
I'm a big proponent of teaching programming at school. I'm already happy if they start around 12 (around when I started, and actually got some programming lessons at school), but this is even better!
I'm also looking into ways to teach my son to program at an early age. I wasn't planning on starting at 6, but now I wonder why not.
I have for a long time thought that basic programming skills are a necessary part of basic literacy education. It is irresponsible *not* to give everyone the tools they need to leverage computing technology to the fullest extent. Just as widespread adoption of reading, writing and arithmetic skills have enabled vast progress, the use of computers as tools to solve customized tasks that require some programming is the next logical step. Just as you can't go about in your life only filling out form letters, similarly you can't do everything efficiently using canned software without writing a single line of code. For most folk it'll probably mean writing scripts in VBA or similar, but it's still a skill that can aid quite a bit. Going through any sort of natural science or engineering curriculum without using programming from day one is IMHO unthinkable in this day and age, yet it's quite common, especially among incoming students.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Computer programming is not such a fundamental area of study that it deserves to be elevated to the level of "math", "reading" and "writing". To a large extent this is a zero sum game. To teach programming in primary school necessarily crowds out something else. History? Foreign language? Music? Some subject other than "computer programming" is getting the shaft.
Why would one want all kids to know programming? We don't require all kids to know automotive design or repair, nor manufacturing techniques for flat panel displays, nor cellphone antenna design, etc.
Programming uses math? Well some arithmetic, surely, but usually not much else.
Perhaps some sort of a fun introductory course might be good as it might spark interest in programming for some students, though.
Nate
is catbert in charge of hiring the teachers?
If you teach all the constructs of English grammar and effective Word Processor use, you get students who can correct the misuse of "they're", "there" and "their", express their ideas, and save a file. But it takes more than an understanding of grammar to produce novelists, journalists, poets, and technical writers. I hope that Estonia will not stop at teaching "programming" alone but that their curricula will encourage creativity.
I've got a bit of experience teaching introductory programming skills (basic html) to younger kids (in a past life). I have to say that I think this is a really bad idea. Targeting kids this young isn't going to work. I think teaching foreign language skills in the 6-10 age range would work better. Then when they are a bit older teach coding skills. I think it's a bad idea because most kids aren't able to comphrend the concepts at the younger end of the spectrum. Reading comphrehension is also a major issue in the 6/7/8 year old age range. There are some 8 year olds who can do it although many can't. Waiting until the age of 9/10/11 to start would be better. By 5th grade I think teaching it on a daily basis would be a really smart move even if it was just with something like scratch.
I can see the benefit of using computer programming as a method of teaching kids to approach problem solving and apply these skills in ways that are likely to seem relevant to their generation.
If they think they can raise a generation of super-nerds, good luck with that. Programming isn't hard if you are wired correctly. If you are better suited to other work, learning programming will only ever make you a mediocre programmer who could have been an elite something else (granted, those alternatives aren't always feasible).
Because I was writing code from magazines and computer manuals, I didn't know what I was doing, but I got a familiarization with symbols. I realized at an early age algebra was really important to programming, and I gave extra effort into these courses. What is even more important than coding though is math. There should be(if there isn't already), a ton of early age math applications for kids to learn how to count and do addition/subtractions. The one that came for the TI-99 I played repetitively until I mastered it, and it gave me a jump start in math.
God spoke to me
They've discovered that with the internet, they can compete with much larger, more successful countries for precious IT jobs. The rate of data access in North America is the equivalent to toenail fungus for some of these countries. While teaching all kids programming from age 6 might be a bit silly, we are losing ground hand-over-fist and should be embarassed with ourselves, (or at least with the governments / oligarchies who are preventing us from catching up).
Kids certainly have the aptitude to pick of the basic concepts. There is a kickstarter project to teach toddlers CSE concepts. Tinkermite Tablet.
Look to your left !! Look to your right !!
Better to teach race car driving !!
With the launch of the Raspberry Pi, computers are becoming affordable again for the younger generations.
The world economy is really that bad. When I was 6, nobody had a personal computer. When I was 12, people had $2000 personal computers. When I was 14, my parents could finally afford one of those $2000 personal computers for me to write my school papers on. (Hello Word for DOS.) And today? We're grateful we can buy computers for $35, because otherwise we couldn't afford them.
As an aside, is anybody else amused that buying a keyboard new costs almost as much as buying the Pi itself?
The OLPC's, meant for schools, included Scratch (and turtleart and pypy, but for me the the star is that one), so in more countries could had been introducing programming to children for years. It could be a good tool to introduce small childrens to it, as is very visual, almost a toy, but you can dig a lot on it. Not sure in which language or environment will be done in Estonia, but that could be a good approach.
I just started my daughter, age 5, on Scratch (http://scratch.mit.edu/). The problem is that she is limited as much by some design choices as by her age. For example, icons and widgets are fairly small to click on; some functions can be accessed by right mouse click (or long left click) context menus; there is no full screen mode, i.e. a child can accidentally switch out of the program; and the worst offense, it requires numerical input. This last one would be easy to fix by sliders: very simple for continuous variables, and the number of dots could be used for small integers (such as number of loop iterations). Otherwise she enjoys it a lot, but I need to unnecessarily attend to any time numeric fields are involved. Anyone know of an alternative that adheres closer to its charter?
Although I applaud the initiative of Estonia, I think that using the lego mindstorm would be a better first step to introducing your kids to programming. Here is why. (By the way, I am a grad student who is working with kids at a local middle school with the mindstorm)
1) Motivation: Many kids are naturally excited about seeing stuff move and do stuff, and therefore robotics is a very nice programming application for kids.
2) Logic: Mindstorm GUI has a nice interface that is easy for kids to use because the GUI uses visual logic blocks. It is pretty much like flow diagram that the kids can build to represent the logic. This flow diagram is of course is compiled into real code behind the scenes.
3) Problem solving skills: Kids can do really neat experiments with the mindstorm such line following and wall following. These experiments are fun and allow the kids to really fine-tune their problem solving skills.
Sorry, I don't buy the modern day hype about how kids need to learn programming and typing and hardware at the age of six. That shouldn't be what school is about. Focus on the basics. Otherwise, why not spend years of this precious educational time teaching them about how to build and maintain a car engine? And if that, why not a boat engine, too? And why not how to repair a washer and dryer? And a lawnmower? And how to sew? And woodworking? And how to perform surgery? And how to run the board at a radio station?
That isn't to say all of these things are not worth knowing, but lets steer away from the trendy bullshit that sounds good and focus on the fundamentals that help when you decide to pursue these more specific things on your own. This is another fantastic example of what's wrong with education in many places. Rather than focus on critical thinking and analytical skills, we focus on specifics that will ultimately only serve a handful of people and do nothing more than look nice on some brown-nosing administration executives resume when he trots out his pet project.
Learning how to code requires logic, something is great need these days all over the world.
There's nothing stopping kids from learning and writing Objective C applications from within Raspberry Pi. GCC is capable of compiling them, and Linux is capable of running them. They can then use what they have learned at a later time in life, using Apple's proprietary libraries, to "make them money" as you wish.
I'm sure many schools will be thrilled to hand out Apple devices to six year olds, just as soon as Apple makes one that costs less than $30.
So you're proposing they teach six year olds to pick fruit?
Widen it - teach the kids to think. Now maybe programming is a part of that but if it's a wider scope ("Now class - let's all watch this shampoo advert and then talk about what it really said") it would be more acceptable and more useful.
Strange as it seems, not everyone wants to program. And a nation (correct me if wrong, Estonia) doesn't really want a nation of programmers. A nation does want a nation of thinkers though. (well, most of the time).
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
I wonder is thinking behind this, in any way related to the 2007 attacks on Estonia's networks
I've got news for Mr. Santayana: we're doomed to repeat the past no matter what. That's what it is to be alive.
I wonder how they will provide adequate instruction for all students once they try to expand this pilot program. I assume a lot of the curriculum will be video based, but you still need competent teachers in the classroom to answer questions.
To want to "bring the manufacturing jobs back" is a lost cause. Programming is the new manufacturing and what Estonia is doing is brilliant. More and more everything in our daily lives is governed by software. Estonia is a small country and choosing this as their national specialty is going to prove monumental to their long-term success.
Programming is math. Whether or not young minds should focus on for-loops or fractions is something that experts in child development are going to have to figure out. That said, I don't think it'll hurt them. I wouldn't try to hit them with stuff like lambda though. AFAIK, the average child can't handle certain kinds of abstractions until they're a bit older.
Teaching programming to a 6-year-old kid is a little bit too early
The art of programming is not about programming itself. It's much more than that.
The person who does the programming must first have a grasp of logic, and it's not an easy task for a 6-year-old kid to grasp the concept of NOT, OR, AND, XOR and all those shits yet
Especially for a kid who is still in a state of "blank sheet".
If you want to teach a 6-year-old programming, you just gotta hafta "pre-programmed" that kid beforehand
In my own experience, I started to teach my kids simple logic when they were age 3 - simple concept of logic, away from all the computer jargon, in every-day-life setting
By age of 4 to 5 my kids could easily grasp why this thing won't work this way, and have the ability to think of new ways to solve (simple) problems by themselves
Only by then I started them with the good-old LOGO language
Putting a kid at 6-year-old through the programming routine might sound nice, but I am afraid of the unintended consequences - that the kid might be psychologically scarred for life
My 2 cents
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
"For most people, computers are still TVs with typewriters attached."
No, I respectfully disagree. Most people know that Computers are NOT TV's at all. They have no idea WHAT the hell it is, only that it's not a TV.
Strange as it seems, not everyone wants to program
Since when are school courses determined by what kids "want" to do? That said, I also think school courses should also include logic, reason, critical thinking etc. for all students. The problem is that a nation of actual thinkers (as opposed to cogs who are productive in a limited specialization but otherwise pass their time with bread and circuses) would pose a danger to a government, which is why governments like to control schooling.
My other UID is three digits.
Programming uses math? Well some arithmetic, surely, but usually not much else.
huh? do you even realise what math becomes when it is combined with computers? cryptography (math) is the basis of information security, robotics, which is part math, science and engineering (the latter two are dependant on math) will largely automate the above processes you mentioned up there in time. computer games? just because math may be seen as mere arithmetic to some (no offense but if i modded you post you would not be getting a 4?) doesnt mean it should be regarded as some digital bean counter. teaching programming at an early age will force kids to be analytical in ways that is not practically possible with other technical subjects, and hence at least complementing ones analytical ability in other technical areas. if this gets implemented by enough education systems i think there will be be a massive benefit to innovation in years to come. think of it another way, if woodwork, metalwork and technical drawing (as well as other hands-on practical subjects) are taught in schools, why not programming? it wont mean that everyone will become a programmer, students could quicker grasp statistical programming languages like SAS and SPSS (along with countless others) which aid all types of science and engineering, not to mention business (the latter being a good or a bad thing, up to you) it will also get us to the technological singularity quicker...
Without some programming skills, you are just as uneducated as without some real math skills.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
But just think, if they drop out before the 5th grade they'll be able to get jobs programming turtles to draw pictures on the floor... What? That isn't a career?
You'd be surprised.
"With the launch of the Raspberry Pi, computers are becoming affordable again for the younger generations."
"Affordable again" implies there was some golden age when computers were significantly cheaper than today, a premise easily disproven by a simple look at the economics of mass production. More programmable devices are being made today than at any time in the past. Almost every device more complex than a light bulb has some sort of microchip built into it.
Low-end Android phones are now cheaper but still more powerful than any PC or programmable calculator from the 70's and 80's, when the "personal" computer revolution took off and took root. Now, even a locked smart phone can be a programming device for the end user, so long as you can download an app that can provide a virtual machine for a simple scripting language. Just GOTO Google to find some examples of that RETRO interpreter for the smartphone of your choice.
"With the launch of the Raspberry Pi, computers are becoming affordable again for the younger generations...."
Yes with the cost of computers raging out of control, I do wistfully hearken back to the days of yore when you could buy a computer for less than a quarter.
The average monthly salary in Estonia is about 800 EU or $1000 USD. That's why the Raspberry Pi is relevant and Apple systems that be useful to do development are not to them. Would you give a 6 year old a computer that cost you a full month of income to buy? No one who's ever watched a 6 year old in action would.
The same economics are true in the majority of the world. Apple's products are relevant only to the best developed countries in the world. Estonia is some distance from being one of them. It's simple math. Try it some time; I think there's an app for it.
I for one welcome our Estonian 6-year-old programming overlords!
"type RIGHT 90, FORWARD 100, LEFT 80 and within an hour he is programming and not realizing it"
Yes, you are correct. But remember, as long there is no GOTO statement it is a kind of programming. Otherwise it will end up as an Italian cooking class.
You forgot to mention tron fanzines.
Honestly, what's happened to the quality of trolls round here?
Hell yeah. I taught myself BASIC when I was about 8. Just from screwing around with making simple games I unknowingly learned basic algebra (variables, some order of operations stuff, exponents) translating word problems into code, algorithm design, boolean logic, and general problem solving. When I started playing with QBASIC's graphics library, I ended up learning some geometry since the only primitives were pixels, lines, and circles. I may not have used BASIC in over a decade, but I still use what it taught me.
Just some arithmetic, my ass!
Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
I think that's probably one of the reasons I took to math so well - almost every new concept I learned was applicable to something I had already done/tried to do at least once the "hard way", so future projects were perpetually getting more interesting as my foundations broadened. As a bonus I'm pretty sure being familiar with programming variables made the transition from arithmetic to algebra a fair bit easier. And a lot of the really "sticky" concepts like negative numbers, vectors, and basic trigonometry map so directly to computer graphics that their application was immediately obvious and I was able to get lots of "hands on" practice with them almost immediately.
In fact I'd be willing to bet that having an ongoing program curriculum that paralleled the mathematics curriculum would make it relatively easy to introduce at least basic algebra and trig to grade-school students - maybe not a lot of the more advanced techniques, but you could stretch the first semester of algebra and trig over a couple years, mixed in with the arithmetic they would otherwise be learning. And there's the added benefit that science (and for that matter arithmetic) courses could actually be taught using some mathematical language, which tends to simplify things dramatically. Even if students don't yet have the skill to derive formulas themselves, verifying them is probably within their grasp so they can prove to themselves that they do in fact mesh with the concepts that proceeded them.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
he learns it as soon as he learns writing his name
Much better able to figure out who they are, where their talents lie, and exercise life choices in a more robust way.
My own High School, in the 80's and in a hick town of maybe a few thousand mind you, offered quite a lot. My own skill sets were:
music, drama, speech, debate, I directed several performances starting from sheet music and some willing participants
formal and creative writing
math through intro to calculus, which I bailed on, headed off into binary math, booleans, etc... when the teacher asked, "why? Nobody uses those numbers?"
Metal fabrication skills
Wood fabrication skills
Auto Repair, and I completely rebuild a nice car I got for a song too.
Introduction to radio and electronic media
Basic Electronics
Ceramics, Art
Social Studies, History, Economics
I taught LOGO my Senior year
BASIC, 6502 Assembly, PASCAL, Beginners C (Aztec, if I recall correctly)
Desktop Publishing
Basic Biology, Chemistry
Hobbies were HAM Radio, Computer programming, building cars, fabricating products to sell in local markets, and TV tune up and Repair for date money....
Not every kid soaked it up, and for them, they could drill down into some niche and excel. Others, like myself, just wanted to learn and build.
Coupla things that have resulted from that:
1. Fell on hard times growing up. Sometimes didn't eat. I could do lots of work as a High Schooler, and did. Turn right around and hunt for food, going from the shot, to meat on a plate. Old school, no joke.
2. I've never, ever paid for a locksmith. Won't either.
3. All I need is ANY car. Hard times happened again a few years ago. That old car with 300K+ miles on it got me through, runs great, cheap ass. I completely understand that thing. Again, cheap ass.
4. Took lots of jobs to attend college. Manufacturing ended up a focus, because I can make stuff, make a lot of stuff, make it right, make it on time, and make it cheap ass. People love cheap ass.
5. Can learn on my feet, and I know that's from the broad stimulation I got when it mattered.
And it goes on and on. Not everybody wants to make things, or even understand them. That's OK. But when hard times come calling, you all will be damn glad to know those of us who do, and school is about building great people. All kinds of great people. Starting out by underestimating them isn't how it's done.
Blogging because I can...
Teaching programming to a 6-year-old kid is a little bit too early
I taught myself to program at age 8. I would have loved to have a CS professor explain things to me. As it was I had to figure out PEEKs, POKEs, binary math and logic on my own and that took a lot of time and effort.
Putting a kid at 6-year-old through the programming routine might sound nice, but I am afraid of the unintended consequences - that the kid might be psychologically scarred for life
I should just stab you for saying that....
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
And I hear that the Chinese now teach programming in kindergarten.
Maybe we've got to bite the bullet and find a way to teach programming in the womb. It's the only way we can maintain our lead, right? And we can give the child-bearers a refresher course too while we're at it.
And Rasperry Pi might be more suited for tinkering than Apple products. For example, Rasperry Pi has GPIO pins and interfacing sensors etc will make the programming much more concrete and interesting.
I have quite expensive laptop, but I still can't wait that my Rasperry Pi arrives, because it is more suitable for tinkering than my expensive laptop. Because of Rasperry Pi, Arduinu etc I am feeling similar excitement I felt when I was learning how to program. If I just had more time...
Because you've got to work really hard at being this awful at education. But we're trying.
Teaching programming to a 6-year-old kid is a little bit too early
The art of programming is not about programming itself. It's much more than that.
The person who does the programming must first have a grasp of logic, and it's not an easy task for a 6-year-old kid to grasp the concept of NOT, OR, AND, XOR and all those shits yet
Kids as early as 3 when they are already forming complex sentences and ideas already master the concepts of AND, NOT and OR (exclusive OR). Logical disjunction is a bit harder to grasp as it does not happen in natural language as often as the other connectives.
Also, you seem to be thinking kids will be faced with full, all-balls programming assigments. Programming at that early age can be tought with a visual programming model, one that might not necessarily be turing-complete, but powerful and declarative enough to show a computational cause-and-effect kind of thing.
See little Tadeus, if you use this command (or visual gadget), you can draw a circle, and if you use it next to this command, you can make it green. See, if you put these options together you can select to create a circle or a rectangle, either green, yellow or red.
Something like that at an early age is just enough. It kindles the child's interest, and it shows that he/she can control this thing, this computer beyond the already pre-canned software recipes (games, browser, whatever) with the mouse and a keyboard. It shifts him/her from a consumer to a producer, however simple the content produced might be. They are kids after all.
You don't get kids to know that a * (b + c) = (a * b) + (a * c) = (b * a) + (c * a) = (b + c) * a = (c + b) * a on day one. You begin with one apple and one apple makes up two apples. Same with programming and any other topic for that matter.
Especially for a kid who is still in a state of "blank sheet".
Kids at the age of 6 are not in a state of "blank sheet".
If you want to teach a 6-year-old programming, you just gotta hafta "pre-programmed" that kid beforehand
In my own experience, I started to teach my kids simple logic when they were age 3 - simple concept of logic, away from all the computer jargon, in every-day-life setting
First of all, if they can learn simple concepts of logic by the age of three, then that comes into conflict with your early assertion that kids of 6 years of age have problems with AND, OR, XOR and NOT. Secondly, if they can have a grasp on simple logic, then they have a leg for programming (obviously programming at their level, just in the same way there is math at their level, and math at our level of comprehension.)
By age of 4 to 5 my kids could easily grasp why this thing won't work this way, and have the ability to think of new ways to solve (simple) problems by themselves
So by age 4 and 5 they already have skills parallel to some of the skills required in programming.
Only by then I started them with the good-old LOGO language
Putting a kid at 6-year-old through the programming routine might sound nice, but I am afraid of the unintended consequences - that the kid might be psychologically scarred for life
My 2 cents
Scarred for life? You gotta be kidding. You can argue that the delivery of a course and the nature of the teacher might scar a kid, but an actual subject. Kids are far more resilient and capable of learning than you give them credit for.
I read this too quick and imagines little people in robes and soft pointed hats learning programming to compete with Dilbert...
Widen it - teach the kids to think. Now maybe programming is a part of that but if it's a wider scope ("Now class - let's all watch this shampoo advert and then talk about what it really said") it would be more acceptable and more useful. .
The problem is that's subjective and relies on having a teacher who can evaluate the difference between "parroting back the teacher's beliefs" and a genuine analysis based on observation and reasoning. This is the same problem literature and philosophy classes run into.
On the other hand programming teaches logic, and analytical thinking in a verifiable way (your program either does what it's supposed to do or it doesn't), but it's less strictly structured than pre-proofs math (there are often lots of different approaches that will provide a valid solution).
Thousands of MILLIONAIRES have been created thanks to the iPhone and OS X ecosystem
LOL. Name one, troll.
I started programming at the age of six but I didn't have the mental capacity to program until I was about 14. David Braben, founder of the Raspberry Pi didn't start programming until he was 18 and that's been a successful career path. Computers in the classroom are timesinks and teaching computer literacy only makes good citizens who can be easily tracked by government. When schools in Silicon Valley tout how little time kids will spend on computers, you have to wonder if they're onto something.
So, good luck to Estonia teaching programming from the age of six but it'll only be a costly detriment to the curriculum.
Programming seems to be a much more useful subject than some other things they teach at school, like some parts of chemistry or history. To me, chemistry was only useful to decide whether I wanted to choose some chemistry-related career or not.
I also think that other areas need people with programming knowledge (just like all areas need people who can read, write and do arithmetic), so they can write their own algorithms to automate repetitive tasks.
At six years old, children are usually learning how to read and write, how to make sense of such abstract concepts as numbers, and learning the basics of arithmetics. I doubt they (at least, a good deal of them) are developed enough for the kind of abstraction needed to program.
I first learnt programming, though, around age eight. And even if I am often out of the average, in my school we had computer lessons starting at age 10 (that was back in 1986). For that class, we learnt to program in Logo. And yes, the teachers were amazed that I got bored with repetitions of sequences and found the REPEAT construct by *gasp* reading a book.
But anyway - Programming teaches a way to structure thought. Formal languages teach how to precisely convey nonambiguous information. Algorithm analisys is the logical next step. So, yes, teaching programming to kids is as important for me as teaching them mathematics, grammar, history, (an introduction to) philosophy, (general bases of) social and natural sciences.
And yes, this does not mean Estonian kids will all grow up to be excellent programmers - It only means they will get one more tool to use in their adult life. Maybe many of my fellow students finished highschool and never cared about algebra again. Maybe I'm not worth much in several topics. But the mere fact of being exposed to those topics, regularly and repeatedly, makes your worldview change.
What is it with this trend of "the younger they start the better"! In Sweden kids don't start learning how to read or write until they are 7 yrs old. Heck, he's 6 and it's basically still daycare! Im a brit but ive certainly come around to the idea that it's not that big a deal that they don't start school at 5 yrs old like in the UK. I see that even Swedes manage to get PhD's and that Sweden is generally well respected as far as international science goes. I suppose it didn't hurt them that they started later than other countries?
To finish, let me point you to a talk by my current hero: Ken Robinson, who raises some very significant points about our educational model:
http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html
"Everyone knows that vi vi vi is the number of the beast" -- Richard Stallman