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The Algorithmic Copyright Cops: Streaming Video's Robotic Overlords

thomst writes "Geeta Dayal of Wired's Threat Level blog posts an interesting report about bot-mediated automatic takedowns of streaming video. He mentions the interruption of Michelle Obama's speech at the DNC, and the blocking of NASA's coverage of Mars rover Curiosity's landing by a Scripps News Service bot, but the story really drills down on the abrupt disappearance of the Hugo Award's live stream of Neil Gaiman's acceptance speech for his Doctor Who script. (Apparently the trigger was a brief clip from the Doctor Who episode itself, despite the fact that it was clearly a case of fair use.) Dayal points the finger at Vobile, whose content-blocking technology was used by Ustream, which hosted the derailed coverage of the Hugos."

26 of 194 comments (clear)

  1. He's a she by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Geeta Dayal is a she. Just sayin'.

  2. Geeta Dayal is female by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Might want to double check your pronouns.

  3. 'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by djnanite · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We have repeated cases of people going to court to dispute 'fair use', which shows that it is not well defined enough for humans to get right, let alone automated bots.

    Lay down specific rules for 'fair use' and then you can write an algorithm to respect those rules.

    (Just don't let RIAA/MPAA dictate the rules.)

    1. Re:'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      But the RIAA/MPAA has already dictated the terms of fair use: Any use that brings us revenue is fair, and all others are not :)

      Reason I think we should stuff a hot poker up their asses and make copyright a flat 18 years for individuals and 5 years for corporations, with not extensions and a one year loss in term for each transferral of copyright (be it selling the copyright or merging/wholly owning the company).

      That would solve the current issues with it, provide revenue over the primary useful life of the material, cut into residuals sadly, but result in more long term innovation since not producing new material will result in bankruptcy rather than an endless stream of relicensing/remaking old material. If all actors/actresses got flat pay (same as 'staff') however it'd be no different than any modern non-IP related job.

    2. Re:'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by FirephoxRising · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree, they shouldn't be allowed to run these bots until they have a perfect algorithm, which will be never. These high profile examples should be enough to allow the EFF to do something? The bots should at the very least have to "request" a violation check, not an immediate take-down.

    3. Re:'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We have repeated cases of people going to court to dispute 'fair use', which shows that it is not well defined enough for humans to get right...

      Pretty much bullshit, "fair use" is indeed well defined.

      But the bigger issue *is not* the "bots", it's the media outlets that accept "take down notices" from bots.

      In other words, I'm questioning the legality of machine generated "take downs" that have no human interaction. I'm suggesting that it is not strictly legal and media outlets could certainly make an argument that such automated "take downs" constitute an unfair burden and so are invalid.

      Seriously.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    4. Re:'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by cheesecake23 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But the RIAA/MPAA has already dictated the terms of fair use: Any use that brings us revenue is fair, and all others are not :)

      Funny, but unfortunately the RIAA/MPAA aren't that clever. If they were, they wouldn't issue takedown notices to all the free advertising they get in fan videos on Youtube of movie scenes and teens dancing to pop songs, which would be deemed fair use in any sane legal universe.

      Also, definitely not fair use but still remarkable: it's astonishing how they happily piss money away in their idiotic war on pirated films and music - imagine what this word-of-mouth marketing would cost them if they actually had to PAY for it.

    5. Re:'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by KingMotley · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They should be allowed to run them, however, the consequence of them being wrong should place a large enough deterrent that they should not WANT to if it isn't extremely accurate.

    6. Re:'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by symbolset · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, Viacom sued google for distributing on youtube content uploaded by their own employees, both from their own offices and the employees homes.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    7. Re:'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by mark-t · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, "fair use" is just a defense you can use when sued for copyright infringement.

      In Canada, the equivalent concept is not a defense for infringement, the equivalent concept creates an exemption to infringement in the first place. So, if your usage was fair, as determined by law, then your defense if you should happen to get sued for infringement would simply be that you didn't infringe on copyright in the first place.

    8. Re:'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by jthill · · Score: 5, Informative

      PP is, in every relevant way false.

      Fair use is, by statute declaration, not copyright infringement at all. Copyright holders have no authority at all to forbid any fair use.

      PP might as well have said a lot of people have a big misunderstanding of what "innocence" is, that "innocence" is just a defense you can use.

      The criteria for fair use are laid out in statute law and have decades of case law to back them. Courts have the same discretion in finding the boundaries of fair use as they have in finding the boundaries of any other law, and the same responsibility. There's nothing at all remarkable about that discretion, it's why they're called "Judge".

      --
      As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
    9. Re:'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by Mr.+Shotgun · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Unfortunately the example from the summary are not fair use cases, more like original producers vs hangers on. The content publishers are using bot's without checking the results. They need to have some guy checking the flags and using sanity testing to verify if the flag is correct. I mean come on, NASA vs some newspaper in Cincinnati, who in the fuck is more likely to have produced footage from the curiosity rover on Mars. Or DNC coverage, who has the copyright, the DNC or a news organization rebroadcasting what the DNC made? Some types of people accept what a program says as the gospel truth, which leads to fuckups like the content flagging and Knight Capital. Computers are tools, not overlords as someone else said.

      --
      Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the (supposed) good of its victims may be the most oppressive
    10. Re:'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by curunir · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem with your argument is that fair use is not a right. Instead, it's a defense against infringement. Even if something is within the boundaries of fair use, no one is required to respect that...it only protects you from being liable for infringement. So when someone (or some machine) denies that fair use, there's nothing legally wrong with doing so.

      The problem isn't (yet) with the definition of fair use, it's with the lack of protection of fair use as a right. For the purpose it serves, fair use is defined well enough...it describes enough to explain the intent and purposefully leaves the interpretation to judges and juries. To protect against cases like the one in the story, we need to first make it against the law to deny fair use...then we can worry about more explicitly defining what is and isn't fair use.

      --
      "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
    11. Re:'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by Gerzel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Figure out what the algorithms are looking for and troll them with false positives.

    12. Re:'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by slacka · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Agreed. Something has to be done. Censorship and wrongful take downs are just one aspect of the many problems with our copyright laws. My biggest issue with them is that they prevent young artists from remixing anything from their generation. This needs to be fixed by repealing the DCMA and reforming these draconian copyright laws.

      Before Disney, copyright granted authors protection for 28 years. I’m fine with that. The problem is it’s pushing 100 years now. This stifles our culture and innovation.

      For example, Star Wars was released in 1978, so it should have gone into the public domain by 2005. With existing laws, George Lucas retains exclusive rights to butcher the SW universe until 2072!!!! 95 YEARS! Imagine what new aspiring authors could do with his work, instead of the sterile Jar Jar crap that Lucas served us, recently? Thank you, copyright.

      Do you think your favorite authors would not have created their material, if it was not protected for 70 years after their death? The copyright system is designed make companies, like Disney and RIAA, rich at the expense of our freedom.

      The irony is Disney made its fortune by ripping off the great works of others. Walt Disney was a master of this. At its origins, Mickey Mouse was a parody of the Buster Keaton film Steamboat Bill Jr. And almost all of their great work since then has continued this tradition of copying. Just to name a few: Pinocchio, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Alice in Wonderland, Jungle Book, Sleep Hollow, Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid,

      With the RIAA, SOPA and Courtney Love’s excellent essay on how they screw over artists should give you an idea of how this industry works. http://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/

      If you want to know more, Kirby Ferguson's series "Everything is a Remix" at
      http://www.everythingisaremix.info/watch-the-series/
      is a great watch!

    13. Re:'Fair Use' is not sufficiently well defined by cygnwolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So you'd be perfectly fine with big corporations, with the big advertising budget, publishing a tiny indy band's music, claiming it was performed by one of their own? With their ability to advertise the crap out of it, the budget to claim that the tiny band was the one copying the work, and without copyright to back them up, the little guys are screwed. This isn't the same as a patent and claiming 'they stole my idea'. Copyright actually protects the creative work itself. Sure, it's a flawed system, but it is a very important one. TGP, however, does have some good points about there being an appropriate duration on the copyright.

      --
      Free Pie! The Pie is Also Evil!
  4. Obama, repeal the DMCA! by Nirvelli · · Score: 4, Funny

    President Obama,

    The DMCA has deleted your wife from the internet! You must repeal it immediately!

    Sincerely,
    A Concerned Internet Citizen

    1. Re:Obama, repeal the DMCA! by clarkkent09 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What makes you think that Obama wants to repeal the DMCA? With the amount of support and money he is getting from Hollywood it is not surprising he is not mentioning copyright at all.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
  5. And why is the technology to blame? by c0lo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    the trigger was a brief clip from the Doctor Who episode itself

    In itself, the tech has shown an impressive quality if a brief clip was recognized in realtime.

    Would anyone blame the hammer because it's an excellent tool to drive nails under one's... well... nails?

    --
    Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    1. Re:And why is the technology to blame? by Required+Snark · · Score: 4, Insightful
      This technology was designed to find infringement. It was not designed to find cute images of puppies. There is nothing in the code to recognize fair use. The technology is intrinsically broken. Perhaps it could be fixed, but there is no incentive to make it work fairly.

      A lot of technology is like OxyContin: it is very easy to abuse. The manufacturers/deployers make money and never suffer the negative effects. It's disingenuous to say that the technology is neutral and does not embody an business/political agenda. In this case allowing fair use would make the system much more complex, and might render it useless. For example if there were meaningful fines for false positives then those using this technology would have to act differently. Hell will freeze over before that happens.

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
    2. Re:And why is the technology to blame? by Skapare · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This technology was designed to find infringement.

      I seriously doubt that. I think it was designed to find matching content and CLAIM it to be infringement while really having no means whatsoever to determine that.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    3. Re:And why is the technology to blame? by c0lo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This technology was designed to find infringement. It was not designed to find cute images of puppies. There is nothing in the code to recognize fair use. The technology is intrinsically broken.

      Correction: as demonstrated, the technology is excellent (in its recognition capabilities). Also as demonstrated, the use of the technology for certain purposes (police copyright infringement) is broken.
      It doesn't mean that for other purposes (finding images of cute puppies included) the same technology cannot be excellent.

      My point: don't blame the "robots", blame those who use them as "overlords". Otherwise, you'd be only adopting the same position to those who would very much like to ban/criminalize a technology (e.g. encryption? The use of Tor?) only because they can be used for copyright infringement or drug trafficking.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
  6. Re:Outrage!??? by fustakrakich · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Make no mistake, takedowns are always malicious, by their very nature. And the law that permits/demands it is even more so. I still hold on to the hope that someday our communications systems (internet, telephone, broadcast, etc) become robust enough to make all censorship impossible. Must destroy central control. That is our obligation.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  7. Lenz v. Universal by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    media outlets could certainly make an argument that such automated "take downs" constitute an unfair burden and so are invalid.

    And the legal theory on this could develop from Lenz v. Universal: a copyright owner's representative must consider fair use and other defenses in good faith before filing a notice of claimed infringement under OCILLA.

  8. Re:Its not just the AI by James+McGuigan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We live in an economic system based primarily on the concept of scarcity. Money is valuable because nobody ever seems to have quite enough of it, just like diamonds and gold. The law of supply and demand, there is more demand than supply.

    The internet and the information age changes all that, its economics that is based on abundance. For the cost of a broadband connection we can give every human child access to the entire digitized archive of the collected works of the human race. The cost of doing this even 100 years ago would have been astronomical and beyond the reach of even the richest philanthropists. The old business models based upon everybody getting a percentage of the production costs break down then the production costs become zero. We have so thoroughly eliminated the nature of scarcity with information that our scarcity based economics, upon which we all depend for our basic survival, has deemed everything that abundance touches to be worthless. Rather than creating "utilitarian" value, it is seen as destroying "valuable" scarcity.

    If you want economics based on abundance/gist-culture to actually work, then content effectively needs to be paid for in advance, with the risk of not-recieving, rather than our debt based culture of buy now pay later, where we only buy the hits after they have proven popular.

    Copyright is about trying to maintain the concept of artificial scarcity in an environment where it doesn't naturally exist. But assuming that copyright has its place, there are checks and balances, but they don't all operate at the cost level and the speed we are used to in internet time.

    The old school system of checks and balances are the courts and the legal system, You can spend a huge quantity of time, energy and money to argue your case and get a ruling from a professional judge. This works well when you have a small number of large, rich corporations with known fixed addresses and assets. Under the old school system, for things like copyright, most private individual use tended to simply fly under the radar and nobody made a big fuss about it regardless of the technicalities of the law. So disregarding morals, we are now down to game theory.

    Now Mr Joe Blogs with his modern broadband connection could easily broadcast more copyrighted music than half a dozen fully funded commercial radio stations from a decade ago. Mr Joe Blogs has very little in sue-able assets beyond a bankruptcy order and by the time the cogs in the legal system have turned, he has managed to transfer more data than could fit on a supercomputer from 25 years ago. Joe blogs wasn't as issue when all he had was a mix tape and 5 friends, now he has a mix computer and 5 billion friends. Plus there are now a hundred million Joe Blogs on the internet doing exactly the same thing. So we have innocent until proven guilty, with a very high cost and high standard of proof required to enforce copyright, with the burden resting fully on the copyright holders.

    So the copyright holders go to the politicians and say they cannot effectively enforce their business model, so they ask for the risk model of the checks and balances to be changed. Hence the DMCA, we want to be able to just send a letter and then shift the burden of proof onto Joe Blogs to argue his case, plus we want legal liability to rest with registered companies with static address who have something to lose if we have to take them to court. Guilty until proven innocent, but at least with the right of appeal.

    But still the DMCA only works at the speed of the postal system, and requires human interaction, which is still orders of magnitude slower and more costly than "internet speed" which we all now mostly take for granted. Hence the advent of AI copyright bots that can at least operate at "internet speed", but the people who create them are on the payroll of the copyright holders and their definition of "failsafe" is to block content first and ask questions later. The checks and balances then start to operate, but they can only proceed a

  9. English needs a gender neutral pronoun. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful
    English language has shown remarkable tolerance in accepting foreign words. When the scripts agree it even accepts foreign words as spelled in the source language even if it messes up the pronunciation rules of English. Rendezvous, San Jose, are examples.

    But why is there no attempt to borrow sentence construction and syntax from other languages when there is a clear benefit? So many languages have a gender neutral third person singular pronouns. For example Tamil has /avan/aval/avar/athu/ to mean /he/she/he or she/it/. Being Indian, I know Geeta is a typical Indian female name. But I cant tell a male first name from a female first name in many European, South American, Chinese and African cultures. And there are names used by both males and females in all languages. Gone with the wind had Ashley as a man's name. Agatha Christie wrote a whole mystery based on the idea Evelyn is a name used by both males and females. I think it was "Why didn't they ask Evans?" or Evil under the sun. Cant remember. There was an Indian MP by the name Kumari Anandan. Kumari with a short a is his home town used as first name. But with a long a, his first name translates as "Miss" in Hindi! He was assigned quarters along with female MPs and got routinely placed in railway sleeper coaches reserved for women!

    English desperately needs a gender neutral third person singular pronoun. Time to coin a new word, something like "ce" to mean he or she. It could pronounced "see" half way between he and she.

    Wish there is a bugzilla to file a ModReq on the English language.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact