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For Android Users, 2012 Is Still the Year of Gingerbread

First time accepted submitter brocket66 writes with this excerpt from BGR: "Three major revisions of Google's Android operating system have launched since the company released Android 2.3 more than 21 months ago in December 2010, but Gingerbread is still the most widely used version of Android by a wide margin. A study conducted early this year by graphic designer Chris Sauve projected that based on Android adoption trends up to that point, Android 2.3 Gingerbread would be the dominant version of Android in 2012 despite the fact that Android 3.0 Honeycomb and Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich had already been released. Now, as the fourth quarter of 2012 approaches, data from Google's Android version distribution tracker confirms once again that those projections were accurate."

257 comments

  1. So? by symbolset · · Score: 4, Interesting

    1.3 million Android activations a day. I guess we like it this way.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:So? by fm6 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Speak for yourself. I like a having a hackable smartphone or tablet that lives outside the Apple walled garden. I do not like that developers are being forced to code to an API that Google froze as obsolete almost two years ago. Nor do I like the fact that a few braver developers are writing cool apps for the current API, but IU can't run them because phones I can afford are stuck on Gingerbread.

      Android phone sales may be fine now, but technology is a grow-or-die marketplace. No matter how well it's doing now, Android doesn't have a future if it's stuck like this.

    2. Re:So? by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If these devs are coding for obsolete systems that is their own damned fault, since if you'll look at any eTailer like Amazon or Tigerdirect the ones being sold with 2.x are the CCC (Cheapo Chinese Crap) that frankly won't run anything heavier thanks to low end CPUs and pathetic amounts of RAM!

      If the devs are really giving a shit about 2.x they may as well go write for Symbian feature phones, because THAT is who all these CCC pads and phones are marketed towards. I have no doubt I'll be picking one of those up for my dad, he just wants to try out the pad form factor and see how it fits him before getting a Transformer. Seeing as how the transformer is $500 with keyboard dock it'd be stupid to shell that out if it turns out he can't get used to the touch way of doing things so picking up some $89-$99 CCC makes sense, then if he likes the FF he can get the Transformer and hand the CCC to his GF who does nothing but FB all day anyway.

      So I don't see what the problem is, most devs I'm sure are writing apps that won't run on the low end ARM chips the CCC units running 2.x have anyway, so targeting that version would just be retarded. IIRC the first dual core units all ran 3.2, so I'd target that as a baseline and if they are running something so junky that it can't even run 3.2 then they really should get something that isn't CCC.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    3. Re:So? by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a combination of problems.

      1)Too many versions too quickly. 2 major releases (3.0 and 4.0) in too short a timespan

      2)Not enough work on backwards compatibility. If I use the 4.0 features, there's no good fallback. Java doesn't help them here- in C++ I could #define in 2.x and 4.x blocks, Java requires lots of reflection aware code because there is no conditional compilation. Or you need to set up special stuff with antenna and the like, which is hard to get working nicely with all the tools.

      2a)The backwards compatibility they do have is pretty broken. Unless the support library improved, it couldn't do simple stuff like make PreferenceFragments work like PreferenceActivities in 2.x very well. So as a dev I can't code to 4.0 and use libraries to emulate features.

      3)The ratio is still out of whack with more 2.x phones sold than 4.0. This is due to so few phones being upgradeable

      4)For whatever reason, I don't see a lot of open source stepping in to help this. On the PC, there's be open source libraries galore to step into the gap. On mobiles, not so much. I think the idea of easy monetization via ads (regardless of how much you actually make) has helped to kill the open source movement on mobile phones. Plenty of free help out there, but not much in the way of quality libraries. But these are the people who generally would be jumping on new features. Without them, its mostly commercial devs and they just want to target the mass market.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    4. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Yes, but in reality this techie nonsense about API versions is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Samsung is shitting on the face of every other Android seller and is almost the only vendor actually profiting from the platform.

      PeeCee Dweebs naively assumed that the Android market was exactly like the PC, except with an open sauce OS. No, because the company who plays the role of Intel and assembles most of the CPU/chipsets also happens to be the the dominant player in the retail market -- Samsung.

      So this Android 2.x thing is not just companies temporarily being retarded with the OS deployments, but actually the result of Samsung ass-reaming them all the way to the bank. The endgame is obvious. Samsung and Google/Motorola will be the two big players fighting Apple and maybe MS/Noikia. Everyone else is building 21st century dumbphones.

    5. Re:So? by Nethead · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Hairy, that reads like one of my posts when I've been drinking. It's Friday and I'll give you a pass since I'm in my cups too.

      Here is news that will shock you. I now have a job as a Windows System Administrator. Yes, nethead, that freaking FreeBSD geek, went and got hired as a Winders guy.

      I'll send you an email and tell you all about it.

      -Joe

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    6. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I have no doubt I'll be picking one of those up for my dad, he just wants to try out the pad form factor and see how it fits him before getting a Transformer. Seeing as how the transformer is $500 with keyboard dock it'd be stupid to shell that out if it turns out he can't get used to the touch way of doing things so picking up some $89-$99 CCC makes sense, then if he likes the FF he can get the Transformer and hand the CCC to his GF who does nothing but FB all day anyway.

      In my experience the cheap tablets, especially those running on the phone OS's, don't deliver even a similar experience to a real tablet. So he might not like the cheap one, but might like a real one like the Transformer.

      I own a Xoom, and can't stand trying to do anything with a cheap tablet.

      Plus I believe most of the devices running 2.3 that the article is talking about are referring to phones not tablets, like my Exhibit 4g that most likely will never be receiving an official update to 4.x.

    7. Re:So? by symbolset · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Last Christmas it was only 700,000 units per day - and it was the holidays. June was but 3 months ago, and it was only 900,000 then. Now it's the off season and 1.3 million per day. With a ramp to holiday volumes we could see a 3x year over year increase. I would say that Android is still seeing considerable growth.

      Just Android's increase in sales per day over the last three months is the entire market for the wildly successful iPhone. Nearly 100% increase in just nine months, from an immense base. This sort of growth is supposed to not even be possible. At some point sheer volume dominance kicks in, and the thing becomes hard (but not impossible) to displace.

      I don't know what you think good growth is, but if this ain't it everybody else in the smartphone industry is toast.

      I like ICS just fine on my Transformer I bought on launch day, but Gingerbread works just fine on my 2 year old phone. At renewal time I'll get a phone with JellyBean. In the meantime, all the apps I like work great on both.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    8. Re:So? by fm6 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Oh please. It's the developer's fault that most people don't want to spend $500 for a phone?

    9. Re:So? by Octorian · · Score: 2, Interesting

      1)Too many versions too quickly.

      Thus is life in the mobile world...

      2)Not enough work on backwards compatibility. If I use the 4.0 features, there's no good fallback. Java doesn't help them here- in C++ I could #define in 2.x and 4.x blocks, Java requires lots of reflection aware code because there is no conditional compilation. Or you need to set up special stuff with antenna and the like, which is hard to get working nicely with all the tools.

      This is something I have far too much experience with from the world of BlackBerry. I've done both preprocessor hacks (which is supported by the build tools, but Eclipse hates), and fancy crap with libraries/pseudo-reflection/design-patterns (which lesser developers might cringe at figuring out). Either way, its not fun. It basically means that you have to use any new features "by exception", versus "by design", which makes it very hard to fully leverage them if the intent is to make your life as a developer better.

      3)The ratio is still out of whack with more 2.x phones sold than 4.0. This is due to so few phones being upgradeable

      Or due to carriers not bothering to push updates, when the vendors have. Or due to users not knowing/caring that they should upgrade. Or due to people clinging to their ancient phones and developers having a hard time justifying cutting them off if they want to maximize adoption. Regardless, having so many players between "OS upstream source" and "end user's device", you're pretty much doomed to this problem.

      4)For whatever reason, I don't see a lot of open source stepping in to help this. On the PC, there's be open source libraries galore to step into the gap. On mobiles, not so much. I think the idea of easy monetization via ads (regardless of how much you actually make) has helped to kill the open source movement on mobile phones. Plenty of free help out there, but not much in the way of quality libraries. But these are the people who generally would be jumping on new features. Without them, its mostly commercial devs and they just want to target the mass market.

      On the PC, you also have continual upgrades to common libraries separate from the whole OS, and sometimes even multiple versions of libraries installed. Additionally, the upgrade cycles of the hardware are almost completely separated from the upgrade cycles of these libraries. (at least in relation to the time scales we're talking about)

      I also agree that the mobile business models have greatly discouraged open source. Its quite frustrating, too, since it places far more burden on the shoulders of the platform vendor to provide everything. There's also this idea that you're supposed to try and make money off any and every mobile project. Regardless of how likely you are to actually succeed, you're looked down upon if you don't at least try. And often trying, means your effort isn't going to be open source at all. (Personally, I'd rather make something open-source and gain the community benefits than try to make an insignificant pittance off it as closed-source. If I'm closing something down, its because the monetary benefit is real and not imagined.)

    10. Re:So? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Try reading the last sentence in my post again, assuming you read it the first time.

    11. Re:So? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      You make a lot of good points (I disagree with you on 4) but I don't seem them as central to the problem. Which is: that most phones are being sold with Gingerbread, If these could be magically upgraded to 4.whatever, the problems you cite wouldn't matter so much.

    12. Re:So? by symbolset · · Score: 1

      I just don't agree it's stuck. And I don't agree that this is a big deal at all.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    13. Re:So? by AuMatar · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And sadly, I don't think that the platform vendor is keeping up. I've recently started heavily writing my own reusable components, with the idea of spitting out a lot of small easy apps (to try and force myself to think in those terms, since I usually dream up giant multi-month efforts). Some of the things I had to write myself were ridiculously common, yet every damn dev is writing their own.

      *Splash screen (and side note: the tutorials I found on the web on how to make one were all horrible, involving spawning threads and making sleep calls).
      *Intents to just play full screen video, or audio and matching image.
      *An Image widget that can use a resource or a URL as the source.
      *A wrapper around their gyroscope and accelerometer to form a compass sensor. Something they used to have (ORIENTATION_SENSOR) then deprecated.
      *A single function call method to get a URL as a string (or as an image, etc).
      *A view that displays the output of the camera, and manages requesting access to the camera when the activity is paused/unpaused. Really, how the hell did they miss this?
      *A JSON parsing library that will take JSON and an object definition and use reflection to turn the JSON into a java object.

      Really, most of these are extremely common. Most aren't that hard, only the compass took significant time, and that because I needed to figure out the linear algebra and then clean up the sensor data. But google isn't providing it, and there aren't any good common Android libraries so everyone is rewriting most of these. And sure, some of these have limited use, but there's still ridiculous amounts of time being wasted by rewriting these thousands of times. Give us better tools to get out jobs done quickly, and we might have time to play with more advanced features.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    14. Re:So? by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      That would help, but you'd still see at least a 6 month lag before major uptake by devs I think.

      Out of curiosity, what part of 4 do you disagree with? That open source libraries aren't available (if so, links please), or that lack of libraries is a major problem?

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    15. Re:So? by fm6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most developers are using a API that was supposed to be phased out 2 years ago, and most new phones still have that same 2-year-old API? How is that not stuck?

    16. Re:So? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Was 4) about Linux? Because in the Windows world, I don't see a lot third-party OS developers jumping in on this kind of issue. Maybe they do in the Linux community, but isn't that the way all Linux problems get solved?

      When you get a lot of different companies and people working together to keep a platform alive (Linux, Apache), then you do get a lot of people stepping up to solve random problems. Not the case when the platform basically belongs to one company, even when that platform is open source.

    17. Re:So? by gl4ss · · Score: 2

      no conditional compilation, but you can have conditional execution.
      also some of the ui things have actually backports/compatibility packages to 2.3.

      it really isn't that big of a deal, really. if it were 2.0 or earlier that was dominant, that would be a problem.

      anyhow, in mobiles cheap "1 generation behind" phones are _ALWAYS_ sold twice the amount of the newest thing(even apples previous models have actually made up a significant portion of their sales..). why? because people like cheap.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    18. Re:So? by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      No, it was pretty general. When I'm developing a desktop app, the first thing I do for any large piece of routine or semi-routine functionality is to look for an open source library that can either be used as a whole or as a template for how to do it. The majority of the time there's something close. That includes times I develop for Windows. This just doesn't exist in mobile, although some Java libraries can be made to work on Android, depending on what parts of the Java standard library they rely on.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    19. Re:So? by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but to get it to compile with conditional execution you have to wrap everything in reflection. Which bloats the code and reduces readability significantly. Better than nothing, but nowhere near as convenient.

      As for the UI backports- some do. Most don't, or have half working solutions. I haven't looked into them in a while, maybe things have changed. But even for the limited usecases we had at my last job we decided the support library was just not feasible.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    20. Re:So? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1

      if you'll look at any eTailer like Amazon or Tigerdirect the ones being sold with 2.x are the CCC (Cheapo Chinese Crap) that frankly won't run anything heavier thanks to low end CPUs and pathetic amounts of RAM!

      All my cheapo Chinese crap phones are running 4.03 at least.

      There's no real problem, this is just clickbait hype. Phones are lasting longer than 2 years, and normal people don't upgrade their OS. That's being spun as an issue.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    21. Re:So? by rasmusbr · · Score: 2

      Speak for yourself. I like a having a hackable smartphone or tablet that lives outside the Apple walled garden. I do not like that developers are being forced to code to an API that Google froze as obsolete almost two years ago. Nor do I like the fact that a few braver developers are writing cool apps for the current API, but IU can't run them because phones I can afford are stuck on Gingerbread.

      Android phone sales may be fine now, but technology is a grow-or-die marketplace. No matter how well it's doing now, Android doesn't have a future if it's stuck like this.

      Okay, but your first and second paragraph seem to be in opposition to one another. The reason why there are two popular API:s, one which you can't afford to buy hardware for, is that technology is a grow-or-die marketplace. Growing pains are growing pains.

      You'll probably find cheap 4.x phones in Q1 2013. If you're more than a hobby developer and you can't get your hands on the latest tech then it's your boss who's to blame, or your own planning if you're freelancing.

    22. Re:So? by Instine · · Score: 2

      but it's not behind. It has grown. Ahead of the market. It's waiting there for the market. The market is what is slow (comparatively) here. I have a Google Nexus One, running Android 2.2. Some years old now. It is still a miraculous little tool. I have no need to upgrade. In fact I have an iPhone4 and never (literally, other than to check what it did) used it. The iPhone is heavier, shorter on battery life, and I can't swap out the battery and so carry multiple with me. I regularly use my 'old' Android for sat nav, playing mp3s when working, buying music, streaming music to my livingroom media player, controlling my TV and media player on my media box, finding places, finding new places, taking pics and video (many hours worth), checking Facbook, looking shit up, playing games, reading books, as a recipe book, as a cooking timer, as a third screen when coding, and as a dog training tool, a torch, texting and phoning. And skyping. And a tape measure. And translation device, spell checker, wireless keyboard and trackpad for my media playing pc, and internet radio player. In car media player and hands free device. And wifi hotspot provider for when I'm out and about with my laptop.

      But I'm not a power user! I don't need the 8 cores on the latest devices, to do all that at once - and screen in screen video playback for multi tasking that await in Jelly Been. I'm not sure I know anyone who does. The only thing I ever wanted that it didn't have was host mode for USB, so I could control robots with it via micro usb. But I never have time for that anyway...

      --
      Because you can - or because you should?
    23. Re:So? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Shifting a bunch of obsolete phones isn't cool

    24. Re:So? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      So the phones are lasting longer *and* Android activiations are 1.3 milion a day of which tablets are only 70k of that and yet the majority of the phones have an OS from nearly 2 years ago when Android was less popular?

      I'd be more inclined to think there are a bunch of budget crap that hardware manufactuers don't care about.

    25. Re:So? by Tapewolf · · Score: 3, Funny

      Oh please. It's the developer's fault that most people don't want to spend $500 for a phone?

      Yes. Doom got people buying £500 PCs, so clearly they aren't trying hard enough ;-)

    26. Re:So? by MagusSlurpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's no real problem, this is just clickbait hype. Phones are lasting longer than 2 years, and normal people don't upgrade their OS. That's being spun as an issue.

      No, the issue is that the manufacturers and carriers aren't upgrading the software. I bought my phone in January, it was released last October, eleven months ago, and the manufacturer (HTC) says it won't push ICS, and my carrier has been mum. I could install the alpha build of CM9 on it, and give up video recording and get "wonky" camera operation (according to the single dev on the project) - but I like having a camera on my person all the time.

      THAT'S the damn problem.

      --
      My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
    27. Re:So? by EmperorArthur · · Score: 1

      Those of us who are just getting started would love for you to share your work with the world. Package the components up as a library and release them under something like the BSD license. Worse case, nothing happens, but best case is everyone starts using your library and all of a sudden you have a brand.

      It's a pretty big bragging right to say that your code is used in millions of apps.

      --
      So lets pretend that we've just completed writing this code, as opposed to having just completed sabotaging it -Altera
    28. Re:So? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1

      Look at the shape of the activation rate curve. I'll give you a hint - it's not linear.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    29. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      that frankly won't run anything heavier thanks to low end CPUs and pathetic amounts of RAM!

      That's only because Android is a bloated piece of shit and Dalvik is garbage.

      You own an iPhone.

    30. Re:So? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Android phone sales ARE the way forward. There's two issues here, a) manufacturers / telecom companies not providing timely updates, and b) end users simply not giving a damn. There are MANY people in these categories. Most Android users don't connect their phones to a computer and are never actually aware that an update is released. More importantly until [killer app] fails to work on their phones due to an obsolete OS issue the phones do everything the end user wants, what's the incentive to upgrade?

      Sure I'm a geek. I need to have the latest and greatest. But the vast majority of these phones are in the hands of 15 year olds, business people, and other luddites. To them they own an appliance, not a computer that fits in their hand and needs software upgrades.

      In any case for most of the world where these handsets are on a contract, in two-three years depending on the duration of said contract the users will often end up with the latest and greatest OS anyway.

      I really don't see the problem.

    31. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the issue is that the manufacturers and carriers aren't upgrading the software.

      Some of that, not all, is because each version of Android ups the minimum required hardware specs for things like a front-facing camera, hardware audio/video CODECs, hardware support for a newer OpenGL ES, a higher PPI screen resolution and so on. If your shitty old device doesn't have the required hardware it can't "formally" be running the newer OS. (That doesn't stop a lot of the chinese manufacturers from skinning their Android installs to look like newer versions, even going so far as to report bullshit version numbers in the Setup/System Information area.)

      Sure, you can run iOS 5.1.1 on an iPhone 3GS (that originally came with iOS 3.x), but if you have anything more than Phone/Messages and Mail open at the same time it gets really fucken slow because it spends half its time swapping to flash storage.

    32. Re:So? by AVryhof · · Score: 1

      Try the IdolPad Plus - http://www.idolian.com/OnlineCatalog/IdolPad_Plus-details.aspx

      I got one, it has ICS, Google Play, and works pretty good.

    33. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Developers are coding to where the majority of their customers are. Can you blame them? They've got to pay the bills, keep roofs over their heads and put food on their tables.

      Are you so myopic that you can't see the similarities with Windows XP, Vista and 7? Do you think that the entire Windows user base is going to magically upgrade to Windows 8 on October 26?

    34. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bought a Samsung Galaxy Ace this summer and it came with 2.x.

    35. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no real problem, this is just clickbait hype. Phones are lasting longer than 2 years, and normal people don't upgrade their OS. That's being spun as an issue.

      No, the issue is that the manufacturers and carriers aren't upgrading the software. I bought my phone in January, it was released last October, eleven months ago, and the manufacturer (HTC) says it won't push ICS, and my carrier has been mum. I could install the alpha build of CM9 on it, and give up video recording and get "wonky" camera operation (according to the single dev on the project) - but I like having a camera on my person all the time.

      THAT'S the damn problem.

      Or you could stop being a whiny asshole and accept the fact that the phone still does exactly what it did when you bought it, and probably much more (thanks to app updates which happen asynchronously to the OS updates). Seriously, THATS the damn problem. Google didnt intend for every old-ass phone to run the latest version of the OS. This whole thing is a troll (made obvious as they put android 3.0 in there, which was released with NO INTENTION AT ALL of going onto handsets) so why not troll it up a little more. Go get an iPhone if you are unhappy, you whiny bitch. At least you will have more sympathetic shoulders to cry on about your woes.

    36. Re:So? by jeffmeden · · Score: 2

      It's a combination of problems.

      1)Too many versions too quickly. 2 major releases (3.0 and 4.0) in too short a timespan

      3.0 was released as a tablet-specific OS. The next handset OS after 2.3 (gingerbread) as 4.0 (ice cream sandwich). Talking about the "problem" with no real knowledge of it, is um, a PROBLEM.

    37. Re:So? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      the ones being sold with 2.x are the CCC (Cheapo Chinese Crap) that frankly won't run anything heavier thanks to low end CPUs and pathetic amounts of RAM!

      It's not just ones being sold that are the problem. My phone shipped with 2.2 and has a vaguely-supported (as in, from the manufacturer, but not made available through their developer channel) upgrade to 2.3. It has a 1GHz CPU with 576MB of RAM (512MB for the Android). In fact, its specs are higher than my Smartbook, which manages to run LibreOffice or Firefox (it struggles a bit running both at the same time). If you're writing a mobile phone app that requires more CPU power and RAM than this, then you're either in a very small market or you're doing something badly wrong.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    38. Re:So? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      As I said above, new phones are not the only issue. A number of major manufacturers do not provide updates, so even though the hardware in my phone meets the minimum requirements for 4.0, it's probably going to stay on 2.2 for a long time (2.3 works with cyanogen mod, I may eventually get some third-party upgrade to 4.0). Apple is a lot better at getting users of older devices to upgrade, but they also have a simpler problem for two reasons: XNU has stable kernel interfaces, so porting drivers is minimal effort, and the total number of different iPhone models ever released (even counting ones that only differ in the amount of flash) is smaller than the current lineup of Android phones offered by a company like HTC or Samsung. Additionally, Apple gets revenue from app sales and is the one responsible for pushing OS updates so they have a strong incentive to make sure that development is easy. Google gets revenue from app sales, but HTC, Samsung, and so on are responsible for pushing OS updates and have no such incentive.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    39. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So it is kinda like seeing Windows 98 software and hardware way after the entrance of XP.
      Posting from my pre Gingerbread phone, which is just one year old, sadly. It is still being sold AFAIK. The worst part is that the Market irritatingly hides incompatible apps as if they do not exist. No warnings make for a source of confusion wheen your friends want to share apps with you. Try looking for Swype when your old phone or new Ice Cream Sandwhich Galaxy Tab decide not to bundle it.

    40. Re:So? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Java requires lots of reflection aware code because there is no conditional compilation.

      Well, kind of. There is no preprocessor (although you can, of course, run Java code through the C preprocessor before compiling if you really want to, or through some other text processing system), but you can conditionally compile different versions of the same class, so you can implement shared functionality in a superclass and pre-target functionality in a subclass and then just compile the correct subclass for your target.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    41. Re:So? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      It's a bit more complicated than you seem to think. Most phones consist of parts from many different manufacturers, and they all need to have stable ICS drives for the phone to upgrade. The cheaper the phone the more likely that it has some random and old Broadcom chip or TI radio that has long since been replaced with a new and more expensive model.

      Sure, sometimes Cyanogen proves that it is just the manufacturer being lazy, but once again it comes down to cost. If the manufacturer has to factor in upgrading and re-testing the phone a couple of years after release into the cost of the phone.

      The reality is most buyers and most developers don't care. Buyer gets a cheap smartphone with a large number of apps (including essentials like Angry Birds, a fake cracked screen, whiplash sound effect, Facebook client and so forth). For developers the Gingerbread API was pretty complete and the new stuff is mostly related to features that older phones don't have anyway, so most apps either don't care or are only targeting high end high performance phones anyway. In some ways it actually helps because a developer can release different versions for Gingerbread and ICS, each with features more suited to the types of phone that run them.

      It isn't perfect but it is hardly the terrible problem that some people make it out to be.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    42. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...blah blah Andriod wankery....I have an iPhone4 and never (literally, other than to check what it did) used it. The iPhone is heavier, shorter on battery life, and I can't swap out the battery and so carry multiple with me...blah blah more rubbish...

      So, you bought an iPhone 4 (an expensive mobile computing device) and never (literally) used it? Plus you claim that it is heavier than your Nexus One. Now an iPhone 4 weights 137 grams and a Nexus One weighs 130 grams (approx?)- I think that 1) You're lying that you can tell the difference between 7 grams and 2) If you're carrying an EXTRA battery for the Nexus One the combined weight will be more than the weight of the iPhone 4.

      So in summary, I am calling you on the rubbish you are spouting.

    43. Re:So? by JackieBrown · · Score: 2

      Another big problem is closed drivers. That is what is preventing my evo 4g and nook color from upgrading

      I can upgreade to icecream and jellybean for the evo 4g but then I loose 4g and video acceleration (netflix.) Same video problem with the nook. This is not the devolpers fault - in fact it is amazing how well they are doing porting new versions.

    44. Re:So? by DJRumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's also not the developers fault that they target the dominant version of the OS. Google dropped the ball. They should have made an upgrade path easily available to their users (and by users I mean end users, not handset manufacturers).

      Apple got this one right. It takes no skill to click an 'update' button. Hell it even prompts you that an update is available. Plug it in and your phone is updated in 15 minutes with a single click.

      The current method of relying on handset vendors to provide updates to Android handsets where there is no profit margin for them to do so is broken. Why provide updates when you can get this shiny new phone with a newer (yet obsolete) version of Android? The technical folk can upgrade but the masses are stuck with obsolete and potentially vulnerable versions due to neglect.

    45. Re:So? by sjames · · Score: 2

      I have to take exception to ' people clinging to their ancient phones'. Two years is nothing like ancient. It's not even close. I know a lot of corporations would like to see a hyper consumer culture where people buy buy buy and then throw it away as soon as they get home because it became 'obsolete' within the 10 minute trip, but that's not terribly sustainable.

      You are free to use nothing but the latest, greatest and the bleedingest edge if you like and you are free to code to nothing but the latest APIs if you like, but the fact is that a lot of people are doing just fine with their 2 year old phone and a lot of developers managed just fine writing apps to that API. I'll bet a lot of those 'ancient' phones aren't even out of contract yet (but soon will be).

      As for the carriers, I agree. If the device can support the update, it should be available. If they don't want to bother, they should unlock the devices and make it easy for people to do the upgrades themselves.

      But as a whole, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    46. Re:So? by sjames · · Score: 2

      ICS came out less than 1 year ago. Honeycomb was never meant for anything but tablets, so phones COULDN'T update to that. So, the API you're complaining about most certainly was NOT supposed to be phased out 2 years ago. It couldn't even START to phase out until 11 months ago.

      Meanwhile, Gingerbread is NOT 2 years old until December.

      So to recap, we're 'stuck' because a 1.5 year old API hasn't yet been scrubbed from the face of the Earth?

    47. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the JSON library I'm using Gson. Image, camera and video playback I haven't worked with. Roboguice has a splash screen class iirc. Definitely check out Roboguice, it makes life much easier

    48. Re:So? by jisatsusha · · Score: 1

      That's not true at all. For example:

      if(Build.VERSION.SDK_INT >= 14) {
      // ICS specific code here
      }

      Compile it with the ICS SDK. As long as you don't attempt to call code that didn't exist in older versions, it'll run just fine.

    49. Re:So? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Don't miss the wood for the trees.

      if you'll look at any eTailer like Amazon or Tigerdirect the ones being sold with 2.x are the CCC (Cheapo Chinese Crap) that frankly won't run anything heavier thanks to low end CPUs and pathetic amounts of RAM!

      This combined with the figures in TFA means that the majority of Android phones being sold are "Cheapo Chinese Crap". This is the reality that few on Slashdot want to admit to. The reason that Android phone market share surpassed iPhone market share is not because it's open. It's because lots of people buy cheap crap.

    50. Re:So? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Technology adoption never is linear, it's an S shape. But how does that excuse the fact that most Android phones are stuck on a 3 year old OS version?

    51. Re:So? by the_humeister · · Score: 1

      Don't be fooled by the processor speed. If it's a Cortex A8 or earlier, then the CPU is reallyslow.Cortex A9 is considerably faster at the same clock rate because it is out oforder (and probably better memory controller)

    52. Re:So? by SomePgmr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Absolutely agree. Developers just go where the people are. People are largely at the mercy of manufacturers and carriers who can take years to release a single update. And even when they do, there's often no notification to the end user that a new version is out.

      And you're absolutely right about Apple having this part nailed. iTunes handles all that quite nicely. Of course Apple only has to deal with 4 or 5 models. I expect Google knew they couldn't manage safe rollouts on an infinite variety of devices, which is a fair assumption.

      End result is Android phones in general just don't get updates. Not in any meaningful way that you can count on. People all have to go buy new phones before you can change your minimum target API.

    53. Re:So? by symbolset · · Score: 1

      "Only" 70k per day is 25 million units per year. For a tablet OS that's 18 months old that's a pretty good rate.

      It only looks small against that 1.3 million figure, which is 475 million units annualized.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    54. Re:So? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      It's a combination of problems.

      1)Too many versions too quickly. 2 major releases (3.0 and 4.0) in too short a timespan

      Not, it's only 1 major revision. 3.0 was tablet only so it wasn't an option for phone devs. 1 major update in over a year is not too frequent.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    55. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also not the developers fault that they target the dominant version of the OS. Google dropped the ball. They should have made an upgrade path easily available to their users (and by users I mean end users, not handset manufacturers).

      My last two phones both receive updates over the air as soon as they are available. The Nexus devices may not have the sexiest hardware six months later (some will say at release), but they get the updates immediately, and don't suffer manufacturer skins nor the carrier crapware bloat. The GSM phones anyway, the CDMA version is a month or two late on updates and does get a little crapware from Verizon.

        My ol' lady is using my Nexus S, and I am loving my Galaxy Nexus. I am really hoping they offer a Galaxy Note type Nexus phone this year...

    56. Re:So? by toriver · · Score: 0

      Android versus Apple is like braving the crime-riddled streets downtown versus shopping at a security-guarded mall...

    57. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a liar and everything you believe in is worthless bullshit.

    58. Re:So? by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Tell that to Microsoft, RIM or Symbian, who still have yet to ship a single dual-core phone in September 2012, nearly a year after the first quad-core phones started selling in China.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    59. Re:So? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      7 month years? WOW! I'm NEARLY 60, now!!!

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    60. Re:So? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Which HTC phone? My One X is running a beta JellyBean (shipped with ICS) and the only thing that doesn't work on it is the video camera. Still photos work beatuifully, as does everything else. Small price to pay on a phone with less than 10GB available for user storage and no sd slot; I would never use that for video anyway.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    61. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh... Sure, blame the devices. The problem with your remarks is that it's more along the lines of a driver re-compile and re-validation that they ought to be doing anyhow rather than what you're claiming- there's not THAT much drift between the kernel revisions on GB versus ICS. (Before you remark, I've done work on GB and ICS (before it was released) on behalf of one of my client companies in the past... Most of the players are making sure ICS works on their "unsupported" devices. This would be the big-boys, some of which you lay "blame" at the feet of...)

      Cheap's the magic word here. Cheap means lazy as well. Any effort means a loss against gross margins and they're already razor thin to begin with.

      As for it being a terrible problem...the damn pundits seem to forget the old, bad WinCE/PalmOS days. It was present then as well- and Apple's not doing as hot as the idiots making the claims of "fragmentation" are claiming. It's all in how they spin it all.

    62. Re:So? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      The reason that Android phone market share surpassed iPhone market share is not because it's open. It's because lots of people buy cheap crap.[..]

      ...which is only available because Android is open.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    63. Re:So? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      If your "frree" upgrade now isn't the latest and greatest now, what makes you think it will be in 2 years?

    64. Re:So? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      ou'll probably find cheap 4.x phones in Q1 2013.

      Why? What incentives to upgrade will vendors have next year that they don't have now?

    65. Re:So? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Ooookay, maybe your drinking is giving you trouble parsing basic concepts? the 2.x branch is being used like Symbian was/is used, for feature phones and feature pads, okay? Now the average dev writing for Android isn't likely to be coding his apps THAT weak, so the odds are that even if he targeted the 2.x branch the apps simply wouldn't run or run so damned slow it would just piss off the user.

      Just think about it THIS way, it would be like saying "Because WinXP still has tons of users on Pentium 4s it is THAT configuration you should target" which would just be ignorant, because anybody running a Pentium 4 is most likely not gonna be buying your new software anyway, so why target a demographic that isn't gonna buy your product?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    66. Re:So? by hairyfeet · · Score: 0

      But you just made my point for me friend, the people that are buying these cheap smartphones are happy with what they have on them and therefor shouldn't be the ones you are trying to market your apps to in the first place!

      I have several friends on the Walmart "all you can use for $50, no contract" plans because they were tired of being screwed on minutes or SMS with their contracts and they are quite happy with what the phones came with. They are happy with the browser, the apps, the little time wasting games, i don't think that they have downloaded a single app from the appstore, not one. To them its a feature phone that does the web, just that simple.

      To use a /. car analogy, it would be like saying "Toyota Camry is the #1 car so you should target your $6k a set rims at the Camry" which if the people that actually own a Camry don't buy $6k rims it really doesn't matter how many of them there are, does it?

      The people running 2.x frankly don't give a shit about apps and appstores, they are happy with what is on the phone. I'd love to see the number of app sales from the Google appstore and see how many of them in the last year are from 2.x users because i bet no matter how many of them their are the amount of actual sales to those users is probably so low as to not matter, so why should devs target them?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    67. Re:So? by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Yes, but this entire discussion is about using new features. So you're going to make calls to functions/classes that don't exist in older versions. This is ok for a graphical difference or two, but not for major work.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    68. Re:So? by dasacc22 · · Score: 1

      > *Splash screen (and side note: the tutorials I found on the web on how to make one were all horrible, involving spawning threads and making sleep calls). Why the crap are you wasting peoples time with sleeping for a splash. If a client asks for this, make it actually do something useful. Create an activity that starts downloading relevant data. At worst, sleep for a duration and then call finish(); startActivity(...);. There's an entire activity there to do real work while. > *Intents to just play full screen video, or audio and matching image. And your point? I'm glad this intent fulfills your need but if you want to raise REAL android issues, lets talk about mp3 playback on 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3+ devices. Lets talk about how 2.2 devices vary in the backend hardware decoder and what kind of havoc that raises. Lets talk about having to roll our own implementation of the http live spec. > *An Image widget that can use a resource or a URL as the source. This could be useful as a builtin but it's stand alone. What if your caching what your app downloads? What if you're looking to share that image via intent with other applications that accept that? Let's talk about the real issue here, and that's a lack luster api for handling multiple concurrent web requests that integrate with all of the niceties android does offer. Then lets talk about a WebImageView class. > *A wrapper around their gyroscope and accelerometer to form a compass sensor. Something they used to have (ORIENTATION_SENSOR) then deprecated. This does suck. > *A single function call method to get a URL as a string (or as an image, etc). Same point as two questions ago essentially. This is a dead end that accomplishes very little. I'd be insulted by Google if this was some "improvement" announced on their dev blog. > *A view that displays the output of the camera, and manages requesting access to the camera when the activity is paused/unpaused. Really, how the hell did they miss this? Valid point, this along with other phone sensors are needlessly complicated to work with. The complication comes down to, in my opinion, how the api is represented. They could require we still do all of the necessary bits, just like presented as above, but create a much better api. > *A JSON parsing library that will take JSON and an object definition and use reflection to turn the JSON into a java object. See GSON, It's stupid easy and works great. XML is a bigger issue.

    69. Re:So? by dasacc22 · · Score: 1

      A repost (yeay no edit functionality), my first real post on slashdot that needs line breaks

      > *Splash screen (and side note: the tutorials I found on the web on how to make one were all horrible, involving spawning threads and making sleep calls).

      Why the crap are you wasting peoples time with sleeping for a splash. If a client asks for this, make it actually do something useful. Create an activity that starts downloading relevant data. At worst, sleep for a duration and then call finish(); startActivity(...);. There's an entire activity there to do real work while.

      > *Intents to just play full screen video, or audio and matching image.

      And your point? I'm glad this intent fulfills your need but if you want to raise REAL android issues, lets talk about mp3 playback on 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3+ devices. Lets talk about how 2.2 devices vary in the backend hardware decoder and what kind of havoc that raises. Lets talk about having to roll our own implementation of the http live spec.

      > *An Image widget that can use a resource or a URL as the source.

      This could be useful as a builtin but it's stand alone. What if your caching what your app downloads? What if you're looking to share that image via intent with other applications that accept that? Let's talk about the real issue here, and that's a lack luster api for handling multiple concurrent web requests that integrate with all of the niceties android does offer. Then lets talk about a WebImageView class.

      > *A wrapper around their gyroscope and accelerometer to form a compass sensor. Something they used to have (ORIENTATION_SENSOR) then deprecated.

      This does suck.

      > *A single function call method to get a URL as a string (or as an image, etc).

      Same point as two questions ago essentially. This is a dead end that accomplishes very little. I'd be insulted by Google if this was some "improvement" announced on their dev blog.

      > *A view that displays the output of the camera, and manages requesting access to the camera when the activity is paused/unpaused. Really, how the hell did they miss this?

      Valid point, this along with other phone sensors are needlessly complicated to work with. The complication comes down to, in my opinion, how the api is represented. They could require we still do all of the necessary bits, just like presented as above, but create a much better api.

      > *A JSON parsing library that will take JSON and an object definition and use reflection to turn the JSON into a java object.

      See GSON, It's stupid easy and works great. XML is a bigger issue.

    70. Re:So? by dasacc22 · · Score: 1

      I'm not big on bragging rights, but if some of those issues bother you, in my response I detailed one of the main issues to a couple of those points is a lackluster api for handling concurrent requests while also playing nice with other bits android offers (share by intent for example). You can check this, https://github.com/dskinner/AndroidWeb

    71. Re:So? by the_humeister · · Score: 1

      I have CM9 running on my Nook Color just fine (for varying degrees of "just fine"). It's certainly more resource intensive than CM7, and the slowness of the Cortex A8 shows.

    72. Re:So? by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      Apple has but a handful of hardware variants. Each manufacturer has dozens of phones, all with different hardware configurations.

      I fully agree that the current system is broken, but blaming Google for it isn't exactly going to help. I wouldn't expect Google to offer drivers for all possible hardware configurations. There's just way too many of them. The responsibility should fall on the manufacturer.

      Nah, what Google would have to do instead is require the manufacturer to provide timely updates for a certain time frame in order to have access to the Google Framework (which includes the official Google apps and Play store access). The manufacturer has an incentive to provide support, yet it's not Google's problem to implement all dozens of variations. Extremely cheap hardware usually doesn't offer the Google Framework and thus probably won't see updates, but then you get what you pay for.

      I'll point out finally that the proper comparison between Apple and Google is by looking at Nexus phones. My Nexus S went through Gingerbread, ICS and now Jelly Bean in a very timely fashion. The Nexus line is the proper equivalent to the iPhone, because it's officially supported by Google, as opposed to a third party. I will however agree that Google's handling of the Nexus One was sloppy and that it should've had a update to ICS too.

    73. Re:So? by rasmusbr · · Score: 1

      The phone manufacturers have nothing to gain by prolonging the life of legacy software once all the phones that roll off their production lines support the new. Legacy software add complexity and cost to their business. The real question is why they haven't switched already, and the answer is likely that it takes time to design and produce entry-level phones (you can't burn tens of millions of dollars on speedy development) that have what it takes to run Android 4.x satisfactorily.

      You should already be able to get an HTC Desire C with Android 4.0 at a reasonably low cost now. Sony Ericsson has switched completely to 4.0 even on their cheapest phones. Those are two signs that the market is about to be flooded with cheap 4.x phones.

    74. Re:So? by Antonovich · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. I installed JB (CM10) on my Galaxy S a couple of nights ago. A Galaxy S I bought a fraction over 2 yrs ago. It runs FAR, FAR better than the absolute SHIT Samsung put on it to begin with. Even with all the subsequent Samsung updates nothing really good came of it. Seriously, something way retarded is going on here. I "upgraded" to an Xperia S (knowing I would have a few months of 2.3 before getting ICS, though ICS was already out...). After getting the Xperia S I upgraded my Galaxy S to ICS (various customs) and was almost tempted to move back to it while ICS arrived on the Xperia. Though my Xperia S now has (stock) ICS on it, I am seriously (really, not just exaggeration here!) considering putting my main SIM back into my Galaxy S. Even with the odd lag due to the single processor, most of the time it just works nicer. And the Galaxy has a dodgy GPS chip! The manufacturers should stay completely out of the software game. They ALL (except maybe Apple here!) suck at it. The official versions have almost without exception been worse than the customs I've installed on my various Androids (ADP1 and beyond). I remember reading a while ago (a couple of years?) a suggestion that they should all just concentrate on hardware and drivers - the base should be nothing more than a sort of hypervisor and the rest gets chosen/installed by the user. This idea was excellent back when I read it, and is even more excellent now.

    75. Re:So? by B33RM17 · · Score: 1

      You using CM10? They got the video camera working on the Evo LTE, been my daily driver for the past week and I just can't go back to anything with Sense. Stock JB is soooooooo fast :-)

      --
      My blood hurts...
    76. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple has a number of models to worry about also, (not as many as android of course) when you consider all the ipods, iphones, and ipads all the years back that are supported (my ipod touch 3rd gen without camera is still supported). There are differences amongst the same model year because the on-board storage may not be the only difference between them. The differences are small but there, and i would consider the number of 4 or 5 models to be understated because itunes handles all of these devices.

    77. Re:So? by Nethead · · Score: 1

      You sir, are correct! My drinking was giving me trouble parsing basic concepts.

      Now if I can just remember what I changed all my passwords too. It seemed like a good idea at the time. ;)

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    78. Re:So? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Yup, CM10, not an official build, tho. Been on it for 3 weeks, so I need to look for an update now. I know the video camera on the international version of the One X has been working for a while, but the NA version (dual core CPU) was still MIA 2 weeks ago when I checked. Like I said, tho, no big loss, if I want to record video, I pull out my Atrix (which I keep handy for the Lapdock), my wife's iPhone, one of several P&S that can do 1080p, or my DSLR.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    79. Re:So? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      It't not "legacy software" if most people still use it and most applications still specifically target it. Google can't withdraw support for it because they don't offer it in the first place,

      Look at MS and their legacy releases of Windows. They can use license agreements to force manufacturers to stop installing them on new hardware They can stop providing support and stop issuing security patches to pressure users to upgrade. And yet every move they've made to ditch XP has been met with enormous pushback. They win in the end, but it's a big hassle for them. And Google doesn't have the leverage over the Android ecosystem that MS has over the Windows ecosystem.

      The real question is why they haven't switched already, and the answer is likely that it takes time to design and produce entry-level phones.

      They don't design a phone to run a specific version of Android. They design a phone within the general Android specs and then adapt Android to it. That in itself is not hard, but they also spend a lot of time coding customizations and proprietary applications. (Users see this as unnecessary bling, but to the vendor they're an essential way to distinguish their product from the competitors.) If they stick with Gingerbread, they can gradually "improve" their changes, but if they upgrade to 4.x, where the APIs are a lot different, they have to start over — and that costs.

    80. Re:So? by B33RM17 · · Score: 1

      Ah OK, didn't know how big of an issue it was for you. Figured I'd give you the heads up since the NA One X and Evo are pretty identical. I was on the fence about CM10 till last week when it finally started showing up in the nightlies. Well for the Evo at least.

      --
      My blood hurts...
    81. Re:So? by rasmusbr · · Score: 1

      In order to make money the phone makers need to focus their efforts where the profit is and most of the profit is at the top of the price range. You can't be at the top of the price range without Android 4.0, which means that companies like HTC have no other choice than to develop their proprietary fluff for Android 4.0. Once they've done that, which they already have so it's sunk cost, they're going to want to roll that out to all their phones. I bet a lot of their developers had hoped they would gradually improve on their 2.3 stuff, but there's no profit in doing that now that you can't sell a top of the line phone with 2.3.

      But hey, don't take my word for it. Go to wherever you usually buy phones and look for yourself. They might still sell expensive phones with 2.3, but you'll notice that those are on their way out and that the newly released phones sell with Android 4.0. The market share for Android 4.0 in terms of end profit for the phone makers is probably close to 100% at this point.

    82. Re:So? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Oh Lord don't say that! Don't even joke that! Do you know how many damned times I've had to recover fricking passwords? I even once had to make a rush service call to another city 40 miles away because the Sally Secretary had changed the password on the mission critical billing system and then went off to lunch and promptly forgot it!

      Since this was like the fourth time I'd been called out for this particular Sally secretary I asked the owner "If she keeps costing you service calls and missed hours, why don't you fire her?" and he got this wistful look on his face and said "Oh God I'd love to, but my wife and son would kill me, seeing as how she's my daughter in law and all"...ouch.

      A good rule of thumb for a killer password that is uncrackable and you can't lose? Just use the serial of something you'll always own. Hell I've had customers that simply used the serial number off the keyboard or the tower so if they forgot all they had to do was lean over and look. I prefer using the serial numbers off my basses myself, i never sell my instruments and that gives you a huge string of letters/numbers/symbols, just perfect and if I ever forget just crack open the case and there it is.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    83. Re:So? by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      But as another poster said you're missing the forest for the wood. the question is WHY aren't they updating? The answer is simple, these units are CCC which means the thinnest of razor thin margins, which makes it simply not financially feasible to update most of these things, if there are even drivers for the older/shittier chips these units use.

      Here is a perfect example of what I'm talking about which is VERY popular here BTW. We are talking about a $135 Android smartphone, runs 2.3, and service is $50 a month for unlimited everything. You see these things all over the place here, there is no contract, the web surfing is good, it has a nice selection of built in apps. No do you REALLY think they are making enough profit on a $135 no contract phone to make paying devs to update it worth the expense? Hell I bet the users don't even fricking download or buy apps from the market, instead just using what came with the phone!

      This is the little secret nobody wants to admit here, that the reason Android is stomping iPhone is that for every $500 Android phone you have 30 of the $135 models being sold. Sure that means a lot of Android users, but those users are using it as a cheap feature phone NOT as a true smartphone. they aren't downloading or buying apps, they don't care about updates, as long as the stuff that comes with the phone works they are happy little campers.

      Don't get me wrong, I've tried a friends unit and it does what you'd want a basic phone to do, surf, email, music, its not a bad phone. But one shouldn't be surprised that phones like that simply aren't getting updated, Android has simply taken the feature phone market Symbian used to have with 2.x, that's all.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    84. Re:So? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Huh? But it is. If my contract expires now I would have to actually put effort into finding a phone that didn't have Ice Cream Sandwich. I don't understand your point.

      My contract expires in 4 months, then my Samsung Galaxy S will likely be replaced with the S3 if it's still the best to suit my needs at the time. Yet I know people who still have the old Galaxy S. I know people who still have 6 months left on their contract, and I know the vast majority of those people haven't a clue what Kies is so they won't ever get prompted to upgrade their firmware. I shit you not there are people out there who are still running Eclair not because they are forced to but because they don't give a damn that despite the SGS getting both Froyo and Gingerbread upgrades.

      When these contracts expire they'll typically get replaced with new contracts, new phones, and new versions of Android followed by another 2 years of non-caring consumers.

    85. Re:So? by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      That may be true - you can't count on the cheapo hardware vendors to fix the problem. But Google has to know this, and if they want devs to target the latest API's, they need to build them in a way that can be implemented on existing hardware (whether they work the same there or not). It's not a problem that my Nexus One can't be upgraded beyond gingerbread, but it's a problem for devs that it can't run apps that use the latest API's. Android needs to present a single platform for devs. And that means they need to put out a gingerbread-compatible 2.4 release that is binary compatible with most (if not all) 4.0 API's. Otherwise, Android is gingerbread for most things. Maybe that's not all that important for whole classes of apps that can work reasonably well everywhere targeting gingerbread - but how's a dev even supposed to know that? Does Google at least put out a 'do I need to target ICS?' document to help out?

      Of course, if they make Jelly Bean multi-user, I'll forgive them and just go out and get a Nexus 7 ;-). Maybe the ICS features are only important for tablet-targeted apps.
      Anybody out there know enough to comment on that?

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    86. Re:So? by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      You miss my point. These are examples of common use cases (except perhaps for the compass sensor) that almost every Android developer ends up writing on their own. They ought to be handled by the framework or by common libraries but they aren't. Its also not meant to be an exclusive list, or even a list of the most important issues (although I think you drastically underestimate the importance of convenience methods). This is what I've found deficient in the last month as I transitioned from working on one mega-app (Swype) full time to churning out small apps for myself and freelance gigs between now and my new job starting.

      1)Splash screens- who says that I wasn't doing something useful in the background? You still need to display something to the user while waiting for that web request to load. It's an extremely frequent use case (popping up a dialog for either x time or until a condition) and ought to be a standard widget.

      2)Common intents- the point here is to make it easy to write simple apps. These again are common use cases. And I can't say I've ever had problems because of the different hardware decoders.

      3)WebImageView- you seem to miss the point. These are examples of simple things that ought to be handled by framework or common libraries but aren't, causing every developer to waste time and effort writing their own. Oh, and my version does optionally cache it and look for a cached version first.

      4)Convenince methods- You'd be insulted if they heralded it as an improvement? I'm insulted that they waste our time with an overly complex API. Of course it does follow the Java standard for IO in that respect- 4 levels of inheritance too much and 5 useless classes thrown in. In reality, when you make a web request you want to do one of a few things with it- write it to a file, or read it in as one of a half dozen common data types. Providing a power user interface for those who need it is great, but not providing the simple method for the 99% of usecases where that's all you need is fucking stupid.

      5)JSON parsing- I've heard decent things about GSON. I'm just leery of using it unless Android is a supported platform, I don't want to self-maintain it. I don't doubt GSON probably performs better than my home grown solution (I know my home grown solution right now doesn't support nulls or allow field names matching java keywords). But half the reason I wrote it was to understand JSON and reflection better, so mission accomplished there. Still, if you're making a massive framework rather than a thin SDK, this ought to be part of it.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    87. Re:So? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You don't know that there were cheap crap phones before Android came along? You must have been born yesterday.

    88. Re:So? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      If you couldn't find a phone that didn't run ICS, then you must have simply disregarded all phones that cost less than $400. Or else you signed up for an expensive plan that cost you even more over the next 2 years. Alas, some of us have to spend our money a little more carefully than that.

    89. Re:So? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Right, and cheapo crap phones are represent such a huge market statement.

      It's easy enough to run the latest and greatest OS when you just need to install the OS and throw the product over the wall. I got suckered by a cheapo no-name Chinese tablet that had a 10" screen and ran ICS. But it turned out that the digitizer used an obsolete Palm-style mechanism, that many applications didn't work, and that the thing fell apart after less than a week. Not an indication that ICS support is no big deal.

    90. Re:So? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Uhm. I'm skeptical, but I won't argue, because I sincerely hope that you're right and I'm wrong. If so, I suppose it would be another case of Google releasing a product way before its time, having its customers pay for the privilege of being guinea pigs, and finally producing a product that actually lives up to all the hype.

    91. Re:So? by DinDaddy · · Score: 1

      Would he take more than a $90 hit if he bought the transformer, and then resold it a month or two later if he didn't like it?

      Seems like the poor quality of a $90 tab might sour him before he ever got to trying a well executed one like the transformer.

    92. Re:So? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      No, you just missed my point. Cheap crap Android phones are possible where cheap crap (versus expensive crap, IMO, but my wife loves hers) iPhones are not possible, because Android is open and iOS is locked down. I hope Apple's enjoying their excessinv profit margins on the iPhone now, because they're losing market share to Android pretty fast right now.

      It doesn't matter if you make $100 on a phone and I only make $1, if I end up selling 100 times as many as you do, our prifit is the same. This is why market share matters, even when iTards (no, I'm not grouping all iDevice users under that umbrella, only the ones who ignorantly refuse to acknowledge the importance or marketshare) insist that profit is king.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    93. Re:So? by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Just because a new version is released doesn't mean the API is deprecated. Google hasn't obsoleted any APIs yet. If you code for Android 1.0, it still runs on devices that have 4.0.3. You could code an app to Android 1.0 right now and sell it, though there is no reason to unless the app doesn't require more modern uses. The modern uses are interesting though, and more likely to sell your app. It is thus through persuasion rather than forcing that Google migrates its developers to more modern versions. Microsoft though is more like "code to our latest library or get the heck out."

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    94. Re:So? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Well, I did just pop my phone into the car dock this afternoon and decide I wanted to record my drive... then remember that "oops, I can't do that anymore". I guess maybe it's more of an issue for me than I realized. I'll look for an update, thanks for the heads up.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    95. Re:So? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Spend what money? About the cheapest plan phone you get here is on a $30 contract. Now lets look at our choices:

      HTC One V - Android 4.0.3
      Galaxy S II - Android 4.0.4
      Motorola Razr V - Android 4.0.?
      Motorola Defy Mini - Ok you win Android 2.3.4, but man that took some effort.

      Now when you look at most popular mobile phone contract in this country the $45 contract you get the Galaxy S3 and a whole line of other ICS phones. And that's what the bitching is about right? Popularity? Who cares about all those really dumb smartphones that have barely any sales when all the current most popular models available have ICS on them?

      Phones purchased outright make up the majority of the cheaper handsets where you'll find your Gingerbread shitboxes. But these are in the vast minority compared to contracted phones, mainly because (where I live) it works out more expensive to purchase your phone outright as the companies don't offer as many freebies like minutes, free txts, free data etc.

    96. Re:So? by crafty.munchkin · · Score: 1

      Major manufacturers stop releasing official updates for their phones far too soon, and most users can't be bothered installing something like CyanogenMod to get the latest features.

      --
      ... wait, what?
    97. Re:So? by SomePgmr · · Score: 1

      I'm sure you're right, but even the expensive ones don't get updated. The platform reference models are the only ones I'm aware of that don't get sold hard and then abandoned.

    98. Re:So? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well I think I know what the problem is, and I have a solution...Basic and Premium. You see Android is right now competing in TWO markets instead of one, you have 2.x taking over the feature phone and cheap tablet market and you have 3.x and later competing in the smartphone and premium tablet market.

      So frankly what they need is brand differentiation, a way to sell feature phones and premium units without forcing devs to go for the lowest common denominator. this is one area where they can learn from MSFT, let those that care about cheap above all have the Android Basic while those that want the full experience can buy premium units. As a bonus they could divide up their marketing data between those two so that devs could see what kind of apps sell to which kinds of users and could better target their apps to the correct demographic.

      But while I think your backport idea is nice i just have to wonder how well it would work with something like that $135 Android phone i linked to. Backporting the APIs really won't help if it makes any apps that use them run like Crysis on a Pentium 3, and since the 2.x market is obviously the razor thin low end market I think the better way to go would be to split it off, just as you get Windows basic with the low end desktops and netbooks and premium for the better equipped stuff. this would also let the customer know at a glance which ones will be updated and which won't so if they want updates? Choose premium devices, don't? Then buy a Basic device and be happy with what it comes with or the Basic market where the apps are designed around low end chips.

      All in all I think this would be the most logical solution, would give Google some control, and wouldn't be dependent on the ODMs to keep up if they are gonna be targeting the low end market anyway. Because lets face it trying to run the modern APIs on one of those $79 tablets would just be painful , better to let them stick with 2.x and when the higher end chips drop they can always make 3.x the next Basic.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    99. Re:So? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Ok, maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am. Certainly there seems to be a market change with respect to good, relatively cheap phones. Which I seem to have just missed, because when I switched to Virgin Mobile a few months ago, they stuck me with one of their dwindling stock of Motorola Triumphs (running Froyo for crisakes). I'm pretty sure the HTC One V was nowhere in sight, thought it's prominently displayed on their web site now.

    100. Re:So? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Instructions per clock for A9 are 5-50% faster depending on the benchmark, but in most workloads you don't see more than a 10% difference clock-for-clock.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    101. Re:So? by rasmusbr · · Score: 1

      Well, you can already get an Android 4.0 device for $199 this autumn and I can get an Android 4.0 phone (no contract, no lock-in, just the hardware) for the equivalent of $149 plus VAT where I live.

      Of course Google is going to try to pass on as much as possible of the growing pains to the device manufacturers who in turn will try to pass as much of it as possible on to third-party developers and customers. I hope they've gotten things right this time, things like mixing audio streams from different apps which 2.3 seems unable to do, but like you I remain somewhat skeptical. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a new incompatible Android 5.0 API two years from now.

    102. Re:So? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Cheap crap Android phones are possible where cheap crap (versus expensive crap, IMO, but my wife loves hers) iPhones are not possible, because Android is open and iOS is locked down.

      That's true.

      I hope Apple's enjoying their excessinv profit margins on the iPhone now, because they're losing market share to Android pretty fast right now.

      But then that's a non-sequiteur. Being more expensive than cheap crap does not mean excessive profit margins. And losing the market that buys cheap crap doesn't matter to a manufacturer of quality products. Not that they're a loss since they were never a market for Apple.

      In the classic Slashdot tradition of car analogies, BMW doesn't care about what's happening in the market for Yugos and Kias.

    103. Re:So? by Meski · · Score: 1

      "Something I'll always own" - well there's my problem. Not a computer, phone, car, watch, do houses have serial numbers?

      I prefer a sentence that's a quote or something, with a number after, that way I can have different numbers for different site passwords, but the same phrase.

    104. Re:So? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Additionally, Apple gets revenue from app sales and is the one responsible for pushing OS updates so they have a strong incentive to make sure that development is easy.

      That revenue from app sales doesn't go very far, when you consider Mac sales (declining along with general PC sales) outrank it by an order of magnitude, and iOS sales by a further order of magnitude. That's just revenue - actual profits will be far lower (they have data centers and payment processors and security etc to run, plus the behemoth sloth known as iTunes...).

      In a similar vein, I don't think Google makes a pile off the Play Store either (and they too take a 30% cut).

      One of the big problems though is that each new Android version brings with it a new kernel, and kernel porting isn't that easy a task. Of course, given that new SoCs support the latest version of Android, it means if a manufacturer wants to ship 2.3, they have to backport everything. Which given a bunch of new phones get released with kickass hardware but 2.3, makes no sense at all.

      Plus, it's not like ICS was released yesterday - it's nearly a year now, and new Androids still come with 2.3 on release.

      The real irony is I think the cheapass Chinese Androids using AOSP probably come with Jelly Bean by default, while new phones from the big vendors ship with Gingerbread, to get ICS updates later.

    105. Re:So? by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Last Christmas it was only 700,000 units per day - and it was the holidays. June was but 3 months ago, and it was only 900,000 then. Now it's the off season and 1.3 million per day.

      So what happened between June and now? Oh, yeah, Jelly Bean. And because people can't simply upgrade their phones (which wouldn't count as an activation), people buy a new phone (which does count as an activation).

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    106. Re:So? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      if your contract expires, do you get any new real incentive to change your phone overnight? you'll find out smartphones will be actually maturing and this madness will have to end. we don't upgrade our PC when the ISP contract is 2 year old or 2*n year old, we only upgrade it when we want to.

      I don't know how much the US market is still crooked but here in France we have a provider that separates service and phone financing. it's still very new though. in the US I don't know why carriers bundling is even needed since everyone seems to have a credit card

      .

    107. Re:So? by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      Even the technical folk can't update a lot of the phones, the ROMs just aren't available, I've been waiting for a working 4.0 ROM for an HTC desire, but it's been confirmed that it's never going to come. The situation is really pretty shocking and it's going to come back and bite the developers before too long.

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
  2. Poor support from Carriers and Manufacturers by caballew · · Score: 1

    Poor customer service from phone carriers and the manufacturers. Sign the customer to a 2-year contract and/or get his money in their greedy little hands then screw the customer

    1. Re:Poor support from Carriers and Manufacturers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While we're off topic, I thought I'd share my agreement. Any time I called about my phone, I'm asked if I've factory reset it first, and about water damage second. Then they proceed with laughably unhelpful advice. I had someone at support tell me that I had to use a task manager to force apps to close constantly, that I had to manually clear all of my application caches every day, that I have to uninstall all of the apps every day (after manually clearing them all), that I had to factory reset the device every day (after manually clearing and uninstalling everything), and that I couldn't install broad classes of apps (e.g. wallpapers) from anywhere (even the Google app store). This is with a Moto Defy on Android 2.2.1. Now I don't call about advice, I just call to have it replaced; I'm using phone number 4 until I have time to replace it with phone number 5 sitting on my desk. Every one has had a unique fatal flaw, but phone number 3 lasted pretty long and my record uptime was ~66 days without having to pull the battery to force it to power off; the UI would crash and reboot, but it didn't seem to affect the uptime stats.

    2. Re:Poor support from Carriers and Manufacturers by stephanruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Three major revisions of Google's Android operating system have launched..."

      Really? I thought it was just one major revision.

      "Android 3.0" was for tablets only. Perhaps, they should just have called it "Android 2.0 Tablet edition", which was really what it was. Take "Windows XP 32bit" users for example, it's not like they complained when "Windows XP for Netbook" came out, or when "Windows XP 64bit" came out.

      And Jellybeans is just Android 4.1. That's not a major revision, that's a just minor one, hence the ".1" and the minor number of changes compared to Ice Cream Sandwich version - Android 4.0.

    3. Re:Poor support from Carriers and Manufacturers by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      And Jellybeans is just Android 4.1. That's not a major revision, that's a just minor one, hence the ".1" and the minor number of changes compared to Ice Cream Sandwich version - Android 4.0.

      True. My tablet updated a few days ago and I've barely noticed any difference between 4.1 and 4.0... graphics seem to be smoother and the wi-fi icon no longer works.

    4. Re:Poor support from Carriers and Manufacturers by B33RM17 · · Score: 1

      I wish I could mod you up more, because you sir definitely get it. I really feel like this Android update issue is being spun into something bigger than it really is. Yea it is a bit annoying that some manufacturers aren't even bothering to update a good portion of their phones. And dragging their feet updating the flagship ones. But I'm seeing more and more Android users that don't care if their phone could be updated, or even know about an update, because they're happy with the way it works. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

      And while they're content not knowing or caring, I'm quite content rooting and flashing

      --
      My blood hurts...
    5. Re:Poor support from Carriers and Manufacturers by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      I wish I could mod you up more, because you sir definitely get it.
      [...]
      And while they're content not knowing or caring, I'm quite content rooting and flashing

      Thanks, but people's frustrations are real enough I feel.

      Coming from (mostly) the PCs' Windows world, people have been spoiled because they've come expect to be able to choose when to install OS updates, and which NASCAR/Disney pre-installed applications they could uninstall from their own paid-for devices, and which applications they can use on the data connection they're supposedly already paying dearly for as well.

      Enabling number portability was a big step in the right direction (in fact many people are still pissed off it took so long to get that in the first place), but without mandated network device interchangeability like they have in Europe, without mandated wireless net neutrality enforced for all carriers using public airwaves, and without admin privileges enabled by default on all phones (technically, I shouldn't even have to root my own personal phone, it should come with an admin root account I can set up by default, just like with Windows XP/7 used to do before Windows 8), no one will really ever own their own personal phones until then.

  3. Sorry guys by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But I paid hard earned money for my phone. I'm not ready to buy a new one yet. Now maybe if more Android phones were upgradeable to newer operating systems, I might run some newer software on my phone.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Sorry guys by siddesu · · Score: 1

      I run 2.3.6 on my phone, and 4.1 something on my (Nexus) tablet - let me assure you all 200+ apps I have installed on both (thanks, local backup) are at the exact same version on both devices. If you replace your launcher, you don't even see the OS unless you open the settings screen.

    2. Re:Sorry guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most are, blame your carrier and the maker of the phone for not providing updates.

    3. Re:Sorry guys by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Nobody's saying you should. The problem is not people hanging onto their old phones, it's vendors hanging onto old OS versions.

    4. Re:Sorry guys by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      I run 2.3.6 on my phone, and 4.1 something on my (Nexus) tablet - let me assure you all 200+ apps I have installed on both (thanks, local backup) are at the exact same version on both devices. If you replace your launcher, you don't even see the OS unless you open the settings screen.

      Of course, because all your apps are written for Gingerbread or Froyo to begin with. Basically if you write for Froyo, you're encompassing the vast majority of Android phones out there. If you write for Jelly Bean, your app only works on 1% of the phones out there. Ice Cream Sandwich at least gets you 20%.

      Of course, if developers only write for the old APIs, it really means that all the capabilities of the newer OSes go unused and all the nifty features shown off at Google I/O are basically frills that have no application for most users because they can't use it because developers won't code for it.

      Which is annoying as developers rapidly embrace new iOS features when they come out.

    5. Re:Sorry guys by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Cutting edge features of the latest OS are useful if you have a premium app that can command a premium price. No surprise here.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    6. Re:Sorry guys by siddesu · · Score: 1

      Not even close -- half of the android apps I use have released new versions in the past month that use new OS features on JB. It just so happens that I haven't seen a huge difference from it for my use cases -- which include mostly photography, various utilities that abuse the sensors of the device, and a host of tools that make organizing my life easier. Maybe I have a set of apps that does not allow the new features of JB to shine, but I don't see what the big deal is. Compared to the difference in the form factor (tablet vs. phone), the other stuff is kinda hard to notice.

      Besides, this is true for most of the apps I have on the iphone/ipad (iphone4/ipad2). They look/behave about the same despite whatever new iOS features have come out and were "embraced".

      I.e. from this user's perspective the situation on the iOS and Android is absolutely identical, despite the huge brouhaha about upgrades.

      For me, the upgrades that have solved various hardware issues were much more important, and these have so far been rather regular.

    7. Re:Sorry guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had the same problem, I got an Android phone and was stuck on gingerbread. I bought a new phone, but it wasn't an Android phone. Sadly many of my friends are disillusioned by Android.

  4. well it support nice native features on 2.3+ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What you miss on Gingerbread are the nice layout features on ICS, means you have to jump through more hoops as a developer. But if you are making opengl apps it really is no big deal, supporting native code on 2.2 was a major pain, now with 2.3+ you can actually write your entire activity in c++, really useful for games.

    1. Re:well it support nice native features on 2.3+ by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Other than by calling into JNI constantly, how would you write an activity in C++? I was working on Android on a C++/JNI solution when 2.3 came out, I don't remember seeing anything particularly new then. Or much since. Or are you just talking about better OpenGL bindings for C++ (which is nice, but doesn't really help much other than games).

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    2. Re:well it support nice native features on 2.3+ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      http://www.srombauts.fr/2011/03/01/android-2-3-nativeactivity/

  5. Uhm, CM 7, 9 and 10 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices

    You have to root and upgrade yourself, but the devices can handle it just fine. So back to lazy phone carriers not working with device manufacturers on year old handsets.

    captcha: suspend

    1. Re:Uhm, CM 7, 9 and 10 by txoof · · Score: 4, Informative

      CyanogenMod breathed a whole new life into my 2 year old Nexus one. It was snappier, appeared to get battery life and had a whole host of awesome new features. The only reason I finally upgraded to a newer phone was because the power button broke (again!) and the headphone jack wore out. If you're sitting on an older Android device, consider trying CM. It really turns your phone into a geeksphone.

      --
      This one's tricky. You have to use imaginary numbers, like eleventeen... --Hobbes
    2. Re:Uhm, CM 7, 9 and 10 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and for those of us that were suckered into purchasing phones with locked boot loaders like the Motorola Droid 3?

    3. Re:Uhm, CM 7, 9 and 10 by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      Here's a suggestion.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    4. Re:Uhm, CM 7, 9 and 10 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Research might help you out. My phone has a locked bootloader and I run CyanogenMod. I don't know if you particular model can do that, but it's clearly not because of the bootloader.

    5. Re:Uhm, CM 7, 9 and 10 by tenco · · Score: 1

      http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices

      The whole Galaxy Ace range is not supported. And i see a lot of them around here (including my on Ace1).

    6. Re:Uhm, CM 7, 9 and 10 by the_humeister · · Score: 2

      Agreed. I have an LG Phoenix (aka Optimus One). It is rather underpowered (ARM11 processor is very slow). I found a CM10 rom and put it on. Sure enough it works, and works well - just as snappy as Android 2.1 that it originally shipped with.

    7. Re:Uhm, CM 7, 9 and 10 by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      http://www.cyanogenmod.com/devices

      You have to root and upgrade yourself, but the devices can handle it just fine. So back to lazy phone carriers not working with device manufacturers on year old handsets.

      captcha: suspend

      Yeah, my dad was really happy with his cyanogenmoded Samsung - until that one version that bricked his phone. Now he's back to stock.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  6. Don't fix it if it ain't broke by flyingfsck · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why mess with a good thing? Most users do not need or want to upgrade. If the phone works, then an upgrade presents real danger of making it worse, not better.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    1. Re:Don't fix it if it ain't broke by raptor_87 · · Score: 2

      The users generally don't have a choice. Eg: a number of Motorola phones released in 2011 (Droid 3, Droid X2) will never see ICS, and while most released in 2012 will, the upgrades are still being rolled out. https://forums.motorola.com/pages/00add97d6c

    2. Re:Don't fix it if it ain't broke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? The consumer reaction to Android 2.x phones was enormously fucking awful. Not just mildly bad, but the majority of US owners 'upgraded' to an Apple phone. (Admittedly that wasn't entirely the OS, but also bloated '4G' hardware with shite 6 hour batteries.)

      Android 4.x has a great consumer reaction going for it. But as long as these obsolete pieces of stinky dogshit are for sale, Apple will have a huge sales advantage. "Just buy an iPhone."

    3. Re:Don't fix it if it ain't broke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, Motorola announced that they would be bringing 4.1 to all capable phones from 2011 forward. If they decide that any of them won't run it properly, they're giving $100 off your next Motorola phone. Not a perfect answer but head-and-shoulders above their previous update policy.

    4. Re:Don't fix it if it ain't broke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/09/05/motorola-announces-most-2011-phones-will-get-jelly-bean-the-rest-will-receive-100-credit-for-upgrades-promises-developer-editions-of-phones/

    5. Re:Don't fix it if it ain't broke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My understanding is that Android 4.1 is the first version of the OS that can lock downloaded applications to an account. As a developer, this is a very important feature for the system because it make piracy much more difficult. I don't want invest a lot of time testing in the Android fragmentation mess (OS versions, screen sizes, processing power, GPU capabilities, etc.), especially if it can result in the cannibalizing of iOS sales. If my products do well in iOS, I'll port to Android once sales fall off; however, this means that Android is relegated to second tier.

      First you get the developers, then you get the users, then you get the money.

    6. Re:Don't fix it if it ain't broke by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      I want 4.0 on my phone. I don't know what it does, but I want it.

      I want it to auto-install. It hasn't. I sit here wondering why. Why, Google and Verizon, hasn't my Droid Charge updated itself? Hell, I am shocked to learn 2.3 has been out so long. My phone only auto-upgraded from 2.2 last December.

      At that rate, I will get 3.0 in 2 years and 4.0 six weeks after 7.0 Gummi Bear is released.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    7. Re:Don't fix it if it ain't broke by Bert64 · · Score: 2

      As a developer you should realise that piracy is inevitable, and that the vast majority of attempts to forcibly prevent piracy have only served to irritate or discourage legitimate purchasers.

      So instead of trying to drive more of those who would be willing to buy your apps towards piracy, use the pirate copies as advertising and try to drive the pirates to become paying customer by offering them compelling reasons to do so?

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    8. Re:Don't fix it if it ain't broke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My understanding is that Android 4.1 is the first version of the OS that can lock downloaded applications to an account.

      It goes further than that. Google Play actually encrypts the download with a device-specific key. Thus a specific .apk is locked to the device and can't be copied between devices, even if they belong to the same account. This is deemed to be OK for legitimate users with multiple devices under the same account - they just have the inconvenience of needing to download the same app multiple times.

      REF: App Encryption at: http://developer.android.com/about/versions/jelly-bean.html

      That said, I don't think this is going to help with piracy in the long term - someone will find a way around it. And don't stick with iOS by kidding yourself that there's no piracy - to this day people still have Sharing Parties to copy apps between friends' iOS devices, restrictions be damned.

    9. Re:Don't fix it if it ain't broke by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The biggest cause of piracy on all mobile devices is the lack of demo versions. Even my TV (Panasonic) has an app store where they expect you to pony up a fiver based on a single screenshot and a bit of text. At least Google gives you multiple screenshots and a video, but really the only solution is for developers to release free demo versions.

      It is more work but virtually all software has to offer trial versions. Plus on an app store with 100,000+ apps if you don't you can bet someone will release a free or ad supported clone, just like in the PC world.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:Don't fix it if it ain't broke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My POS Moto XPRT (there's an ironic name) still runs Froyo. My last Motorola purchase, for sure.

  7. android 3.0 by ganjadude · · Score: 2, Interesting

    honeycomb is only for tablets, not cell phones, so it makes sense. Blame the cell carriers/ 3rd parties for the holdup 4.0 is not even being rolled out to some 90% of phones that are already out there, therefore it only makes sense that 2.3 is the dominant flavor

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  8. It works by SpaceManFlip · · Score: 1

    If it works, use it. Like the other folks said, a lot of phones are left unsupported by their providers with no official updates. Then you have the choice of using it and not worrying about the OS, as long as it works right. That's fine for the average user who isn't likely to do a lot of USB-to-computer interfacing with it to do the upgrades or mods...
    But if you really want updated software you can look into things like Cyanogenmod. Doing that got my unsupported phone all the way up to Android 2.3, whereas Motorola left it languishing with the only supported version at 2.2 or .1
    2.3 has been doing well on my phone for awhile now, but if the Cyanogen guys put out a stable 4.0 release for my phone I'll definitely try it.

    1. Re:It works by __aaapod779 · · Score: 1

      May work right, but is it secure? I am not all that comfortable buying apps from google play, if they think I am going to use my phone to pay for day to day purchases, it better be a current OS and secure.

    2. Re:It works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that you can buy the apps online, right? google.com/play

    3. Re:It works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are known remote exploits in the wild for most of the Android 2.x series. Unfortunately, since the carriers don't care, the only way to be reasonably secure is to root and upgrade the software yourself.

    4. Re:It works by bigt405 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, my Atrix with 2.3.6 doesn't "just work." I'd be happy with a few patches to Gingerbread, but Motorola has been so poor with this I don't think I'll ever get another one of their phones.

      On the other hand, if Motorola updates this to ICS by the end of the month as promised, I'll be a happy camper (provided they fix what's already broken with their buggy Gingerbread Motoblur).

  9. What are the min requirements for Jelly Bean? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've been assuming the reason there are lots of 1.x and 2.x phones out there just had to do with the fact there are a lot of low-end Android phones for sale. I figured ICS and JB had fairly stiff hardware requirements. Is that not correct?

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:What are the min requirements for Jelly Bean? by Linsaran · · Score: 1

      Basically if you had a top of the line phone 2 years ago it can probably run ICS, it might be a little sluggish, but it's doable. I had an epic4g (basically sprint's version of the original galaxy s line) and it runs ICS fine via cyanogenmod 9. I haven't looked into budget android phones in a while, but I'd hope that most things bought in the last 6 months or so would have the specs to run ICS, since there's been 2 years of time for moore's law to catch up.

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    2. Re:What are the min requirements for Jelly Bean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nexus S runs JB great. Shipped with Gingerbread too.

    3. Re:What are the min requirements for Jelly Bean? by Zuriel · · Score: 2

      4.0 and 4.1 don't have very harsh CPU/GPU/RAM requirements, the big problem is storage space.

      4.0 uses significantly more space than 2.x so it's complicated to upgrade a lot of phones. Even if the phone has plenty of internal flash you might only have a 512MB system partition, so upgrading means re-partitioning flash to allocate more space to the OS, which is apparently too difficult to do as an OTA update.

      With Cyanogenmod I believe you can use a custom bootloader to wipe and repartition then load the 4.x OS image onto the blank phone over USB.

    4. Re:What are the min requirements for Jelly Bean? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Hahaha, "only" 512MB? My previous phone ran Froyo and I'm pretty sure it only had 256MB.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    5. Re:What are the min requirements for Jelly Bean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A dedicated GPU with OpenGL ES 2.0 is a neccesity. That's why many older phones just can't run ICS/JB fast enough.

      Also, much less than 512MB is needed. My phone with 192MB (I think 100MB for system) can have ICS on it. It's just the phone is too slow...

    6. Re:What are the min requirements for Jelly Bean? by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      Pretty much this.

      The most powerful Android device I have is a Viewsonic G-Tablet Tegra2 thingy from a couple years ago. I was playing with the TeamDRH 4.1 ROM on it for a few months. It was really nice, but the 512MB of RAM just isn't enough to keep it snappy and responsive while running both the desktop and a few widgets and a couple apps. I eventually went back to the old 2.3 VeganTab build because everything worked and ran fast.

      Maybe someday I'll pick up a Nexus 7 for the kids. But no big rush... all the apps I care about run well an run fast. And I don't really want to give up USBdrive support just to have a slightly nicer taskswitcher.

    7. Re:What are the min requirements for Jelly Bean? by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      Official requirements, yes. Thing is, if you've got 512Mb-1Gb of RAM, commensurate flash, and a GPU that's worth having, an A8 based device will do reasonably well running ICS. There's a handful of cheapie e-book readers, tablets, etc. showing up with ICS and they're usable.

      This is more due to a desire by the Telcos and the phone vendors to avoid any more perceived hits on their gross margins than they feel they should have to. It takes time to validate firmware (including device drivers)- and it's just "better" for those gross margins to convince (cough...hoodwink...cough...) the consumers to go upgrade their plan and their phones.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  10. There's not a lot of incentive to update by Linsaran · · Score: 4, Insightful

    On the consumer side, 90% of smart phone customers don't use even 15% of what their devices are capable of doing. For most consumers, the questions, "Can it go online?", "Can it make phone calls and send texts?", "Does it have some stupid little games I can put on it to pass the time when I'm bored?", and "Does it work reasonably well without being too confusing for me to figure out" are all they care about. That functionality has been available long before android 2.3 even hit the scene, never mind 4.0.

    The average consumer doesn't understand nor care about the differences between OS versions on really anything, computers, smartphones, whatever. As long as it does that one thing(s) that they want, most are satisfied. Now if they're exposed to a new feature from a new version they might grow to like it and use it, but chances are unless they're already a techie and looking into that sort of thing, most users won't care about it until there's some game/app/thing they want to do with their current device/OS and can't. Plus, unless they happen to be fairly tech savvy and aren't afraid of voiding warranties and what not the consumer is at the whim of their device manufacturers and carriers to get them updated software. So it's no surprise most people just stick with what they have if it works 'good enough'

    From a manufacturer point of view they've already sold the product, maintaining updates costs them money, so they're disinclined to spend money on a product that's already sold. There's some work done on flagship products, and maybe a little bit just to earn enough goodwill with their customers that they'll keep coming back, but like all corporations they balance expenses for 'customer service' very carefully. For most corporations, customer service isn't about doing what's right for the customer, it's about doing enough to keep most of the customers happy, but not cost the company a fortune.

    There's a little more incentive on the carrier's end to keep things updated, since their customers are paying for a service, not for hardware, and I'm sure that there's some push from the carriers to get their devices updated. But even then that costs money, so it's really only going to be their most popular devices that get attention, and less popular ones will fall by the wayside.

    Tl;dr most people figure if it ain't broke, don't fix it

    --
    In a bit of shameless internet panhandling, I accept Litecoin Donations at Lbd2oH9QsthD1GfuUXPyka12YxvWJYnBVf
    1. Re:There's not a lot of incentive to update by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have 4 Nexus S phones in the house. When ICS was finally pushed, all four of us updated. My son and I loved it and were happy to finally have it. My wife and daughter complained that things "look different" and why did the home screen icons change and both wanted their phones back the way they were.

    2. Re:There's not a lot of incentive to update by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The Android software ecosystem suffers for a lack of app encryption: without it, piracy is greater, which hurts the software ecosystem, which dulls the appeal of the system. The install base is larger than iOS but QA costs are higher and piracy is a major concern, especially for expensive niche apps.

      The individual phones are not broken; however, the platform is. This will not change until most people are on v4.1 and later.

    3. Re:There's not a lot of incentive to update by gutnor · · Score: 2

      That's where Apple got it right with the marketing. They advertise new features that us geek consider not worthy of even talking about. However, as you said Joe User does not care about the OS or what it can do unless it has been demonstrated to him and Apple ads, as silly as they are, just do that.

    4. Re:There's not a lot of incentive to update by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people stop eating when they're not hungry anymore... unless their food contains lots of sugar. Apple makes most of its money by adding copious amounts of sugar to their products.

    5. Re:There's not a lot of incentive to update by dougsyo · · Score: 1

      I can get ICS for my phone, and in fact I have been rejecting the update. Reports are that my phone performs better on GB, and it's already rooted and working fine. I am going to leave it as it is until maybe some killer app comes along that won't run on GB. Most likely that won't happen until my next phone comes along, and by that time I may bite the bullet and get an iThingie.

      Doug

    6. Re:There's not a lot of incentive to update by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're kidding yourself if you think there's no piracy on iOS. Oh, and Google Play now encrypts downloads for Jelly Bean devices with a device-specific key, so there's no piracy for them (yet).

    7. Re:There's not a lot of incentive to update by 21mhz · · Score: 1

      On the consumer side, 90% of smart phone customers don't use even 15% of what their devices are capable of doing. For most consumers, the questions, "Can it go online?", "Can it make phone calls and send texts?", "Does it have some stupid little games I can put on it to pass the time when I'm bored?", and "Does it work reasonably well without being too confusing for me to figure out" are all they care about. That functionality has been available long before android 2.3 even hit the scene, never mind 4.0.

      But, but, Nokia is doomed because they didn't get Microsoft to make Windows Phone 8 work on their current phones? This is the prevalent, +5 insightful modded opinion on Slashdot whenever a story mentioning Nokia is posted.

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
  11. Limited hardware supported, not by vendor themself by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Cyanogenmod is available for maybe 25% of android devices sold in models, probably less than 10% in number. For my android device, there are severe trouble with the phone/wifi firmware (wifi sometimes doesn't work when you have a SIM inserted) and camera (not supported by native camera app). There is no support for that from the CM team since it's an unofficial port and obviously, the hardware vendor and telco don't support it either.

    Apple supports firmware updates including full hardware support for about 3 years at least. You may not always get all new features, but at least you get the security updates. Google does not mandate any such term from their vendors, they are fine with "fire and forget". In practice, this makes devices with the same quality and features in hardware less worth if they're not running iOS. You may not want to spend iOS money on a device, but if you have to add in the security risk and frustration about the lack of support and McGyvering you will probably be subjected to, the price difference may suddenly not be that big anymore.

    Android vendors get away with putting on their own "improved" UI, which usually isn't that much of an improvement, but makes it harder for people to switch phone because the UI is different. There's no signature "it works this way and looks that way" OS on Android phones, making it harder to market them.

    If Google wants to really get ahead, for Android 5 they should mandate 3 years upgrade support from vendors and telco's (within 1 month after general release) and no customization apart from optional addons that can be switched off by the user. People that spend a lot of money on a device or a "sponsored" telco deal should be able to enjoy their device a whole lot better and marketing the devices would be a lot easier as well, making it more justifiable to pay top dollar for such a device.

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
  12. droid 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    droid 3 !!! blame it on TI or VZ for the lack of ICS update!!! we all want the kernel but the 512mb of RAM stops it...

  13. Applies for desktops as well. by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 0

    I take it you still run your desktop PC without upgrades as well? Wait for the first "real" android virus. There will be public outrage that vendors didn't offer upgrades to prevent this. Sure, lots of people don't want to upgrade, because if they would be interested in that, they'd buy an iPhone. Market share for people that want decent support for their devices OS that doesn't involve DIY is very low for Android. If Android would offer this, there would be a lot more competition with iOS devices than there is now.

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
    1. Re:Applies for desktops as well. by symbolset · · Score: 0

      Android isn't Windows.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    2. Re:Applies for desktops as well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL. Android isn't Windows and is just as immune to malware as Windows is.

  14. Still 2.3 for sale by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 2

    Probably, in numbers, the amount of devices still sold with Android 2.2 and 2.3 is still higher than the amount of devices sold with 4.X. Even tablets are usually sold with either 2.X or 4.X, not with 3.0. So no, it doesn't make sense, new devices are being sold in the millions with known vulnerable software on them.

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
  15. Umm, I'm a professional Android driver developer by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    Mine isn't supported. Else I would have upgraded.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  16. More upgrades available via PCs by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Informative

    My Galaxy S2 got an update to 4.0, but it wasn't available OTA, only by connecting the phone to Samsung's KIES software.

    My wifes's Motorola phone got an update to 2.3 just a couple of month's ago (yes, 2.3, not 4.0), but again, it wasn't available OTA -- only by using Motorola's software on a PC.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    1. Re:More upgrades available via PCs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you upgrade an OS OTA? OS's should be done this way. (Would you upgrade windows XP to 7 OTA?)

    2. Re:More upgrades available via PCs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely. I can appreciate if the phone tells me I need to plug it in to a charger to update the OS, but I shouldn't need to track down the update for a phone on my PC. I don't connect my phone to the PC, as a rule, so why force me to do this just to fix bugs?

      Jelly Bean seems to be better about this (or maybe it's my manufactuer), but now my phone is happily offering me updates over the air.

    3. Re:More upgrades available via PCs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1: because some carriers make you

      2: it can be done automatically

      3: it's not that much more risky. It downloads OTA to a file on the phone. The checksum is compared and *then* it's installed. This isn't much different than how you'd flash CyanogenMod or another ROM

  17. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by Hadlock · · Score: 2

    Google sells bare phones direct to consumers. Really good, well supported models with lots of high end features. Consumers have the choice to buy these, or defer the large upfront cost of the phone over a year by paying higher monthly rates. I've had my Nexus S for almost three years and it's paid for itself (actually I'm about $60 ahead at this point) by choosing a plan that reflects my up front purchase cost. Telcos are taking advantage of lazy consumers, but there are also competitors in the market who are serving more informed consumers. There's nothing to worry about here.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  18. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by tuppe666 · · Score: 0

    Apple supports firmware updates including full hardware support for about 3 years at least.

    Is that true?

    Apple right now are still selling the 3GS iOS 6 runs badly, Admittedly with features stripped. According to you will still be receiving updates in September 2015. It won't. The 3GS is a rare duck in its support, but has done so to give the impression of a larger product line. ...but seriously measure support from end of sale not start.

  19. May I say... by zephvark · · Score: 2, Interesting

    could they stop naming the operating system to appeal to six-year-old girls? That is probably not their best target demographic.

    1. Re:May I say... by MachDelta · · Score: 2

      It's all named after (alphabetical) delicious treats, man. What's not to like? Oh, and just wait until the next major release - Key Lime Pie, mmm mmm!

    2. Re:May I say... by just+another+AC · · Score: 1

      ... or maybe Kool-aid?

    3. Re:May I say... by cerberusss · · Score: 1

      could they stop naming the operating system to appeal to six-year-old girls

      I'd go with a really brutal naming scheme, that doesn't appeal but actually repels little girls.
      "Raging death-penis"
      "Blood-soaked kill-sword"
      "Liquid-shit-drinking face-eater"
      "Murderous thunder-horse"
      "Rampaging destructionoid"
      That sort of thing. Ringtones could be themed along with the name, whenever a text comes in, you'd hear a soul-wrenching, agonizing scream.

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
  20. Smartphone 2.3 by puddingebola · · Score: 1

    So it runs most all the apps people use. It does pretty much anything the average smartphone user needs to do. It's ubiquitous. It's kind of like Android XP.

    1. Re:Smartphone 2.3 by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Pretty much, yeah.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
  21. Sigh. by DeTech · · Score: 1

    I wish more real computer people used these phones. It's weird there's a Debian port for my phone but no ICS? wtf guys?

  22. Honeycomb is not a full version by dragonjujotu · · Score: 1

    I wish people would stop counting Honeycomb, it's a tablet-focused fork of android that isn't supposed to be on phones anyways.

    --
    Yes, I am obsessed with ellipses.
  23. Just Curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there any public data on how many iOS devices are running the current version? I know Apple implemented OTA updates in a recent veraion (4.0 I think) but I would be interested to know how many people (read: typical end-users) even updated to 4.0. I can think of three people off the top of my head, who I know personally, who have NEVER updated their iPhones\iPods. I have to assume, then, that it's not that uncommon.

    It would be interesting to see the ratio of Android users who are "forced" to be on an older version to iOS users who have never bothered with updates that are available to them. Another good one would be a ratio of iOS users who went to a previous version in order to jailbreak vs Android users who rooted to go to a newer build.

    1. Re:Just Curious by Kergan · · Score: 2

      I'm not aware of any data from Apple, but several devs publish their stats. Bloggers periodically aggregate the whole thing and make pretty graphs. Here's what things looked like last March:

      http://pxldot.com/18754186750

    2. Re:Just Curious by EGSonikku · · Score: 1

      The relevant bit:
      "iOS 5 captured approximately 75% of all iOS users in the same amount of time it took Gingerbread to get 4% of all Android users. Even more astounding is that 15 weeks after launch iOS 4 was at 70% and iOS 5 was at 60% while Ice Cream Sandwich got to just 1% share at the same age. If there were any question as to whether iOS had a less fragmented ecosystem than Android, the past two charts provide a fairly definitive answer."

      And with Apple's iPhone 5 / iOS 6 availability announcement on the 12th, we'll likely see updated numbers.

      The current iOS (5.1.1) has seen very widespread usage, and there's currently no need to "downgrade" for Jailbreak as there is literally a one click jailbreak for all iOS devices running 5.1.1.

      --
      - "Scientia non habet inimicum nisp ignorantem"
  24. I would like an Android phone -- without the phone by Burz · · Score: 1

    Or rather, without the cellphone. (I have my reasons, no need to question them.) Naturally whatever I choose will probably have cellular equipment in it. I just want to make sure cellular doesn't switch on. Limiting my phone calls to Wifi is perfectly fine.

    Also preferably without the Microsoft tax, which probably limits my selection to Motorola. ...any suggestions?

  25. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by MisterSquid · · Score: 0

    Apple right now are still selling the 3GS iOS 6 runs badly, Admittedly with features stripped. According to you will still be receiving updates in September 2015. It won't.

    3 years since debut you fucking ignoramus.

    --
    blog
  26. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by Tailhook · · Score: 1

    I've had my Nexus S for almost three years

    Wow! How did you get one 16 months before they existed?

    Nexus S isn't that old. Introduced Dec. 2010.

    --
    Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
  27. Re:I would like an Android phone -- without the ph by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    There are a couple Android-powered cameras - might be worth checking them out.

    Nikon Coolpix S800c

    Samsung Galaxy (camera)

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  28. Plugins and extensions by bhunachchicken · · Score: 1

    Perhaps a better way would have been for Google not to release the Android source code, but instead to implement it in such a way that it supported a plugin and extension architecture, like Firefox, Chrome and Eclipse.

    That way, the OEMs would have been able to tailor the phones to their liking, but wouldn't have been able to tinker directly with the primary Android code. It would mean that updates could easily be pushed to the phones and OEMs would have to do very little work. A preview Jelly Bean could have made available to devs, to ensure their extensions, etc. still worked and then it could have been pushed down to the public.

    But then again, it is likely that, should it have used this approach, Android would not have captured the market share it now commands, since fewer OEMs would have picked it up, not wanting to work with closed source.

    1. Re:Plugins and extensions by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      But, but, but... Open beats closed every time!

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
  29. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by Hadlock · · Score: 1

    Indeed, where did you get that date from? Wikipedia? Go check the edit log for that article. Pay close attention to the time/date stamp.
     
    I had originally written 2009 in my post, but decided to fact check myself. I deleted the bit in my post with the numbered year, but forgot to change three to two in the post.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  30. Why are you surprised? by rippeltippel · · Score: 1

    1) Gingerbread was the first version to give a fairly complete user environment (compared to iPhone).
    Ergo: Most software has been developed for 2.3.

    2) Most contracts with mobile operators in UK (and I guess in other countries as well) last for 24 months, and devices cannot be upgraded in the meanwhile.
    Ergo: I'm not going to pay for a new device before the current contract end.

    3) Honeycomb is mainly for tablets, which have quite a narrow user base compared to mobile phones.
    Ergo: Gingerbread devices > Honeycomb devices.

    4) Android versions are not easily backwards compatible.
    Ergo: I'm not going to port my current software, unless there's a significant user base (if it ain't broke, don't fix it)

  31. Independent Builds for Older Phones by ilikenwf · · Score: 2

    While not officially supported, many phones have working, mostly working, or partially working builds of ICS and JB. I was on a Droid2 before I decided to get a Galaxy Nexus for the fact it has an unlocked bootloader, even over the SIII, but the Droid2 ran ICS like a top, though some hardware acceleration issues existed. The ICS build by some user on RootzWiki was still far better, smoother, faster, and had better battery life than the GB build that came on it by motorola.

    See XDA and RootzWiki with your GB phones, and see about getting a better build on there...of course, I roll my own anymore, and run JB on my Gnex, even though it's not been released yet officially for my phone (vzw).

  32. Have we lost control? by Knutsi · · Score: 2

    Perhaps the fact that we cannot ourselves (easily) update our tablets and phones says something about how much control we've lost on our devices? That scares me. If i buy one of the new style of laptop-tablet hybrid, can I expect the same? Will this not easily cut years of value off these things, and slow down the software ecosystem?

    I had an _expensive_ Window Phone. Then Microsoft told me I could not upgrade my 6 months old phone to WP8. I felt so cheated, and still do. I will never buy another. It is such a disrespect for the customer.

    1. Re:Have we lost control? by browncharlie25 · · Score: 1

      Yeah I agree with you, now-a-days multinational companies cheated customers like this, they knew very well that because of thousands of customers Government never put ban in their country..

  33. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You sound like a frustrated little shit. I enjoy seeing little shits like you cry when adoption numbers like these are announced. It just snuffs out your POS OS until it finally dies.

  34. Re:I would like an Android phone -- without the ph by kwark · · Score: 1

    1-Turn on airplane mode.
    2-Turn on wireless.
    3-Take a look at the phone status
    4-Profit

    But it depends on the reason behind not wanting a cellphone radio in the first place. My guess it the radio will be on by default on a cold boot and you need to turn it of, maybe you could remove any RIL stuff from your ROM (rooted or custom ROMs). But when I go to places I don't want the radio enabled I do the above and tell Tasker to do this for me at boot just in case it restarts/reboots.

  35. Coincidence? by kramulous · · Score: 1

    I've spent all day trying to update my wife's phone (gt-i9000 2.3.3) and my phone nexus s (4.0.3) with zero success. I don't want to root them.

    Most of the time has been spent with the gt-i9000 since it is the most out of date one but every attempt has failed. The documentation for doing this is shit. The resources for doing this is shit.

    I only have linux (F17) at home. If I can't do it then it is little wonder that others cannot.

    --
    .
    1. Re:Coincidence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just root the phone and run aokp or cm 7, 9, or 10.

      The other option is get a windows machine going and use odin if you're having such issues. Download the original firmware from samfirmware.com (it's been so long I believe that's the right address)

  36. subject by Legion303 · · Score: 1

    I'm still on Froyo. Carrier phones FTL.

  37. Clash of cultures can be stifling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I agree the lack of upgradability of android on old phones is frustrating. Seems to me that the manufacturers and the carrier do not have the capacity nor will to deal with the idea of upgrades.

    My android phone is 2 years old, it still has crapware from my carrier on it. I tried looking to see if i could update, but the carrier's website has little to no help. Just one page showing how to update a few of the more popular smartphone makes.

    The carrier's want us to use their crap apps, and thus bloat most android phones with them. The phones are locked so we cant even delete them.

    It's an interesting time, but to me the carriers have the final say in this.

  38. Froyo is Android XP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just like people are stuck on IE6 and Firefox 3.6 two out of my three devices uses froyo. Even then I had to get a custom build for one or I would of been stuck with Cupcake.

  39. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

    Show me a phone I can buy directly from Google and then use with a reasonably-priced service (e.g. Virgin Mobile) and I'll happily buy it. Otherwise STFU.

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  40. These people are using 21 month old software!? by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Funny

    Amazing! That's almost two years!! How can they stand to use anything so ancient?

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:These people are using 21 month old software!? by PCM2 · · Score: 2

      Amazing! That's almost two years!! How can they stand to use anything so ancient?

      Mobile is a rapidly-developing technology market. Every phone I've owned has been significantly better than the last. What people are starting to understand, though, is that many of the improvements -- some of which are major -- can be delivered via software only. UI glitches in older versions would disappear ... if the carrier or phone maker would just deliver the new software. But they don't. Imagine if you bought a car, and then in the next two years they put out a new model that has the same engine, same transmission, same drive train, but different software in the onboard computer, and it gets 10 mpg better gas mileage. Wouldn't you want to get your hands on that software? Now imagine GM has put a system into your car that makes it impossible to upload the new software. Wouldn't you complain?

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
  41. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by Hadlock · · Score: 1

    If virgin uses GSM then you should be fine, I was able to use my phone while roaming all over South America (I made a call from Macchu Pictures on this thing) and most of Mexico. Supports edge and 3g here stateside.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  42. 2 year cycle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My Epic 4g (Samsung Galaxy S) is about to hit it's 2 year mark, actually.. it did 4 days ago. It started with Eclair, got Froyo, and eventually Gingerbread. As others have said Honeycomb was Tablet only, and Ice Cream Sandwich and Jellybean require more power than the phone really has (yes ROMs can make it work, but it's not as perfect as it should be). I imagine that most people are still on these 2 year cycles with their phones, and some upgrade even less. It's no surprise to me that Gingerbread is the most popular right now. In two years, Jellybean will be the most popular (or what ever the highest version of 4.x is), while the latest devices run 5.x or even 6.x. I find it funny that we complain that people are still using 2 year old versions, while, on the PC end, we still have XP and Vista users. I think phasing out an OS version in 2 years is fairly quick, and in a few years we won't have to complain about things like this.

  43. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by PCM2 · · Score: 1

    Here is the official Google blog announcing the Nexus S. It was announced on December 6, 2010. It wasn't available for sale in the U.S. until December 16. Even assuming you ran out and bought one the day it shipped, you still haven't owned it for three years. Not even two, in fact.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  44. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Buy an unlocked GSM Galaxy Nexus off of Google play and put a pre-paid SIM in it. I have one with NET10's "unlimited" SIM it and it has been working well for me.

  45. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem with this is that they don't sell a phone that has the features I want:
    Physical keyboard slider
    removable battery
    microSD expandable (kinda stupid that Google has been moving away from this)

    There really ought to be a Nexus Q version that comes out with the regular version.

  46. Re:I would like an Android phone -- without the ph by PCM2 · · Score: 1

    How portable does it have to be? Most Android tablets don't include cellular equipment. Since you like Motorola, maybe a Motorola Xoom, which has a good upgrade record. Some app UIs don't look very good on tablet-sized screens, though.

    That said, every Android phone I've owned has included switches for both the WiFi and 3G radios. "Airplane mode" turns off both, but you can also switch off one or the other, if you choose. Switch off the cell radio and forget about it. Or for that matter, buy a GSM Android phone and don't put a SIM card in it. Voila! Your phone will not work as a phone.

    So, basically... buy whatever you want. My main suggestion is to buy it used, though, because unless you buy a phone that's been subsidized by a mobile contract, it will probably cost you $400 or more to buy new.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  47. Re:I would like an Android phone -- without the ph by thopkins · · Score: 3, Informative

    Samsung Galaxy Player.

  48. Re:I would like an Android phone -- without the ph by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I realize that most phones won't let you get to the Home screen without a SIM being installed, but can't you install a damaged SIM so it can't register on the network?

  49. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by Hadlock · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would buy an Android powered Blackberry curve in a second. I loved my Blackberry to death, but using it made me feel like I had an Apple II in my pocket, when everyone else had a sparcstation. Dat keyboard.... to this day I'm still slower (even with Swype, Swiftkey, etc... I've tried them all) on a touchscreen than I ever was on my physical keyboard blackberry. Sadly the only android phones that come with a physical keyboard are marketed towards teenagers and thus manufactured as one grade up from trash.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  50. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    In practice, this makes devices with the same quality and features in hardware less worth if they're not running iOS.

    A) Most of the cost a lot less than a device running iOS.

    B) iOS is dragged down by the abomination that is iTunes and the fact that it is so heavily locked down. I'm not just talking about what apps and features are allowed, you can't even copy your MP3s to the damn thing without iTunes or iCloud.

    but if you have to add in the security risk

    Can you point to one instance of users suffering from an in-the-wild security exploit on Android that was not patched on a phone from a major manufacturer? Android seems to be pretty secure, with the only security issues coming from apps, and Google does bother to patch its own or remove third party ones that are not fixed. Part of this resilience is probably due to there being little incentive to do drive-by attacks on Android since rooting can be accomplished in much easier ways, so no-one is bothering to look. With iOS for a while you could actually drive-by jailbreak anyone's iPhone via a web page, talk about scary.

    Android vendors get away with putting on their own "improved" UI, which usually isn't that much of an improvement, but makes it harder for people to switch phone because the UI is different. There's no signature "it works this way and looks that way" OS on Android phones, making it harder to market them.

    Actually the point is to make it easier to market the phone by differentiating it from all the other Android phones out there. I dislike most of them as well (the Samsung GSIII one is fairly minimal and not annoying, but HTC is horrible), but you completely misunderstood why they have them.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  51. So so by Snaller · · Score: 1

    So you are poor and broke and who exactly are you blaming for that? Not yourself apparently.

    The market is growing even if you are begging on a corner.

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    1. Re:So so by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Oh right, somebody who can't drop $500 for a device that'll be obsolete in a year is "poor and broke" Full of yourself much?

      Poor is a feature phone. Broke is a landline. Poor and broke is bad English.

  52. Except a lot of that is crap by Snaller · · Score: 1

    Its not a question of "coding for 2.x" - its a question of being compatible. The early version of Android were very fully formed, almost all of the fluff added later were in the interface (*).

    If someone is making a new app they need to take a look at if they NEED 4.x - most won't - they can make their apps with the features available in earlier version of Android.

    "Angry Birds" only REQUIRES version 1.6 - but is compatible with all later versions of Android.

    The "must have latest version" is mostly tech pundit circle jerking.

    (*notice i say "almost all" meaning not all, learn to read before flaming)

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
  53. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by jmichaelg · · Score: 1

    >Apple supports firmware updates including full hardware support for about 3 years at least.

    That is probably why I'll buy the new iPhone when it comes out despite knowing it'll have a proprietary power plug instead of microusb and a walled OS. Maintaining the OS is crucial since no OS is bug-free when it's shipped. Android, by not having a routine patch policy, is just a few bugs away from a clever black hat finding the flaw that'll give them complete control of handsets around the world.

    I had hoped that perhaps Microsoft would have understood this but the way they rolled over for the telcos suggests that Apple is currently the only handset company that has a grip on how important a uniform platform is.

  54. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    In practice, this makes devices with the same quality and features in hardware less worth if they're not running iOS.

    A) Most of the cost a lot less than a device running iOS.

    B) iOS is dragged down by the abomination that is iTunes and the fact that it is so heavily locked down. I'm not just talking about what apps and features are allowed, you can't even copy your MP3s to the damn thing without iTunes or iCloud.

    but if you have to add in the security risk

    Can you point to one instance of users suffering from an in-the-wild security exploit on Android that was not patched on a phone from a major manufacturer? Android seems to be pretty secure, with the only security issues coming from apps, and Google does bother to patch its own or remove third party ones that are not fixed. Part of this resilience is probably due to there being little incentive to do drive-by attacks on Android since rooting can be accomplished in much easier ways, so no-one is bothering to look. With iOS for a while you could actually drive-by jailbreak anyone's iPhone via a web page, talk about scary.

    Android vendors get away with putting on their own "improved" UI, which usually isn't that much of an improvement, but makes it harder for people to switch phone because the UI is different. There's no signature "it works this way and looks that way" OS on Android phones, making it harder to market them.

    Actually the point is to make it easier to market the phone by differentiating it from all the other Android phones out there. I dislike most of them as well (the Samsung GSIII one is fairly minimal and not annoying, but HTC is horrible), but you completely misunderstood why they have them.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  55. Nexus devices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No, the problem is people buy what the carriers offer on two year contract.
    If you went pre-paid instead and bought the Galaxy Nexus or earlier the Nexus S you'd be on Jellybean by now.

  56. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by Hadlock · · Score: 1

    See my response to the exact same topic someone else pointed out, immediately before yours, and written six hours ago

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  57. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by PCM2 · · Score: 1

    Errr, I don't see that response. All I see is you being sarcastic and talking about Wikipedia. I thought I'd give you a source other than Wikipedia.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  58. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by jmichaelg · · Score: 1

    Since I can't edit a post, I'll edit it here - Evidently Microsoft might have switched gears on its update policy and as of Windows 8, might send upgrades over the air to all Windows 8 platforms.

    Whether ZDNet has it right or not, it's hard to tell as I couldn't find any Microsoft update policy statement.

  59. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by Hadlock · · Score: 1

    Yes, the response where I updated wikipedia to reflect the correct date of winter 2010 literally minutes before making my post on slashdot.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  60. Life in the mobile world is not optimal by Envy+Life · · Score: 2

    1)Too many versions too quickly.

    Thus is life in the mobile world...

    That's not how it should be. iPhone releases 1 phone per year, which includes 1 major OS upgrade to all prior phones of the past 2+ years (covering all carrier contract timeframes). All other mnaufacturers release so many phones that they can't keep up on software upgrades, and by the time that 1-2 year timeframe hits, that phone feels ancient. It's not exactly an optimal customer experience.

    As a customer I specifically make phone purchases based on the odds of getting new android updates. At first I thought Samsung would do it, they failed me. Then I thought HTC would, and they failed too. Now I'm back to Samsung, and frankly the situation is even worse... even the Google branded phones have serious upgrade lag. Manufacturers blame it on the carrier, carriers blame it on the manufacturer. In the U.S. anyway, I've resigned to a best case scenario of getting a single upgrade in the first 6 months of the phones existence then spend the next 18 months watching several new Android releases come and do without being able to experience any more upgrades until my contract finally expires. It's just a big stalemate.

  61. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by russotto · · Score: 1

    Show me a phone I can buy directly from Google and then use with a reasonably-priced service (e.g. Virgin Mobile) and I'll happily buy it. Otherwise STFU.

    Galaxy Nexus or Nexus S, use it with T-Mobile Monthly4G. Virgin, as far as I can tell, won't let you bring your own phone.

    (yeah, now we'll hear that there's some OTHER requirement which rules out T-mobile)

    (disclosure: I am a Google employee)

  62. I'm running 4.1 on my Galaxy S by charnov · · Score: 2

    My phone came with 2.2 and I have upgraded all the way to the latest Jelly Bean. Here's a hint: only buy Samsung or straight from Google. Maybe Motorola will finally stop being jerks now that Google owns them and have an upgrade path, but my next device will be a Nexus 7 straight from Google.

    --
    [RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
    1. Re:I'm running 4.1 on my Galaxy S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HTC allows you to fully unlock their devices, they even provide the tools needed. HTC is one of the good guys.

  63. Everyone Missed My Point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My point is that most hardware CAN support an OS upgrade to become a better device. The phone companies just don't do it because *gasp* it would take work and eat into their 2 year upgrade profit lock in cycles.

    I thought you guys were a bunch of Linux geeks always going on about how great a simple OS upgrade could make older hardware.

    Sheesh, even XDA-devs managed to get non-geeks into rolling their own ROMs, but when such vaunted peeps as an actual Android Developer can't get a CM mod working on their device cause someone else didn't make it work out of the package for them...

    Really guys? Is this not the same crowd that has as its founders a group of code-psychos who would write their own drivers just to see if they could make it work? You guys make the baby-Krishna cry. :(

  64. Re:I would like an Android phone -- without the ph by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

    If you don't put a SIM card in it, the phone part of your device will be effectively disabled.

  65. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by markzip · · Score: 1

    OK, is $30 a month reasonable enough for you? Assuming you are in the USA, you can buy the Galaxy Nexus (unlocked) from Google and use it on T-Mobile's Pay as you go service. Here are a couple of XDA threads which may help you out: [GUIDE] Smartphone Service for just $30/month [INFO][GSM] Own Your Cell Service ..with Prepaid and the Galaxy Nexus [UPDATED 5/24]

  66. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by the_humeister · · Score: 1

    Virgin Mobile uses Sprint's network, so that means CDMA.

  67. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Show me a phone I can buy directly from Google and then use with a reasonably-priced service (e.g. Virgin Mobile) and I'll happily buy it. Otherwise STFU.

    I've got the Galaxy Nexus from Google and use it on Simple Mobile (a T-Mobile MVNO). It works great and is $40 a month.

  68. i hate ICS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Confusing UI, shorter battery life.... what is to like? I wish i never clicked upgrade. I long for Gingerbread.

  69. MISLEADING by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Android 2.3 Gingerbread would be the dominant version of Android in 2012 despite the fact that Android 3.0 Honeycomb and Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich had already been released."

    Android 3.0 Honeycomb is for tablets only. The majority of devices running Android are smartphones.

  70. Re:I would like an Android phone -- without the ph by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Without sim you can still dian emergecy patterns, the radio still works just fine.

  71. Wait? People don't upgrade their phones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who knew?

    DOH!

     

  72. And 2013 is still the year of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    XP so what?

  73. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by evilviper · · Score: 1

    Sadly the only android phones that come with a physical keyboard are marketed towards teenagers and thus manufactured as one grade up from trash.
     

    What in the hell are you talking about? The entire Droid line has qwerty keyboards, and they were long the flagship android phones, built like tanks.

    There aren't as many phones with a physical keyboard as without, but there's still a LOT of them, and ample selection for anyone, on any carrier, to get a good one.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  74. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by Tailhook · · Score: 1

    Indeed, where did you get that date from?

    I bought a Nexus S online from Best Buy four days after they became available. I know for a fact when they appeared. Wikipedia's date of December 16, 2010 is correct.

    --
    Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
  75. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by Hadlock · · Score: 1

    Clearly you've never used a blackberry for any length of time. Technically the droid has a keyboard, but it's not something you'd want to regularly pound out two page emails with.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  76. Re:Limited hardware supported, not by vendor thems by evilviper · · Score: 1

    Technically the droid has a keyboard, but it's not something you'd want to regularly pound out two page emails with.

    I do so on a regular basis.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  77. And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most people never upgrade their iOS either - so what?

  78. the system is broken. just do the best you can. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    unlockable phone and reasonably priced service? as a long time Virgin Mobile user, I'm going to have to say: unpossible!

    I love my no-contract $25/mo plan (unlimited slow ass data, and 300 minutes talk). But it would be nice if there were more phones or at least upgradeable ones.

    That said, I suspect if carriers were more heavily regulated in the US, rather than having a nation-wide standardized service (GSM) with no-contract phones we'd just find ourselves paying even more in upfront fees and new taxes. Because it would be the lobbyists for the carriers that would write up any government regulation, rather than a consumer watchdog group. Not much money (power) in being a consumer watchdog I'd imagine.

    I hate to sound like a libertarian crackpot. But if the government can't fix all our problems, then we're only left with the free market. Yes I know Europeans seem to have a government that works, but I don't live in Europe, I'm in the United States. It just works different here. I guess it's our own fault for electing representatives for how well they hold some idealogical extreme rather than their track record on protecting the common person.

  79. Way ahead of the curve by WillgasM · · Score: 1

    I'm running Jelly Bean, but that's not saying much since my tablet is only a few weeks old. If I find that OS updates in the future aren't available, I'll gladly root the thing. However, I am talking about a tablet; it's just a toy to me. If it's a phone that a person relies on every day, they'll probably be more hesitant to fiddle with it.