Ask Slashdot: Best Computer For a 7-Year Old?

First time accepted submitter Boldizar writes "My son turns seven next month and I'd like to buy him a cheap computer. I'm looking for the Slashdot hivemind opinion on what would be the best computer for a child. I'm looking for a computer that will teach him basic computer literacy, and hopefully one wherein the guts are a bit exposed so that he can learn how a computer works rather than just treating it like a magic object (i.e., iPad) – but that would still keep him interested and without leaving him behind in school. For the same reason, I prefer a real keyboard so he can learn to type. I don't know enough about computers to frame the question intelligently. Perhaps something in the $300 range that would be the computer equivalent of an old mechanical car engine? Another way to think about it: I'm looking for the computer equivalent of teaching my son how to survive in the forest should the zombie apocalypse ever come."

Comments

Small keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

Since you probably want your child to learn touch typing (using all fingers, always the same finger for the same key) you should get one with a smaller keyboard (netbook?) since touch typing is not possible if your hands are too small for a regular keyboard. (OTOH this could be problematic if he has to use full sized keyboards at school)

First...why?

[MindPrison]

Firstly, I'd ask you WHY you'd want him to learn anything in particular, than - everything?

A computer is just ONE part of his life, if you want him to be "computer smart", you know...understand todays technology, just give into his curiosity, it's very dangerous to "force" a kid into anything, it's better to just let them stumble upon anything in their way, and support them there any way you can.

I'm sure it will come naturally. If he's a gamer, let him play with consoles.
If he's curious how these things are made, introduce him to a computer with a simple Programming IDE set up for him...like Python and SDL. (Just like we grew up with C64 and basic, you know...)

etc..

Re:Raspberry Pi

[gl4ss]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Raspberry Pi pretty much what you're looking for?

fuck no, it's not. buying him a raspberry would be like buying someone a nes to get him into games industry. buying him a shitbox x86 and loading it with linux would work much better for all the things the rasp could teach him. with raspberry he'd be stuck with the apps there's on it, clunky gaming via clunky emulators and slow response time for just about everything. it's not like he's going to be doing anything soon with gpio pins and such.

now, getting an used p4-era computer _and_ a raspberry might not be so bad.. but for a 7 year old, just get him some computer that's loaded with a real os and made of real parts. and some games, classic games.

I'd go with a desktop box and some modern monitor, real keyboard etc. that way it's easier to keep tabs on him without spyware - and there's the possibility to teach about the parts when some part fails and needs to be replaced.

Not a tech problem

[girlintraining]

Okay, a lot of people are going to get on here and talk about their favorite computer, or how to get your kid involved in programming and hacking, etc. But let's be honest: Most kids at that age play games with a computer. Until they're a teenager, there's no strong need for privacy, so I'd say just get something like a mac mini or an HTPC, set it up in the livingroom, and then give the kid a wireless keyboard and mouse and hook it up to the TV. Kids will spill juice, food, and generally destroy anything you give them.

A laptop or tablet is straight out unless they're waterproof and can survive being run over by a car. or worse. Get one of those fold-up keyboards... don't spend much money on it either way, it'll die. And you might want to buy a spare. (-_-) For kids "survivability" is far more important of an attribute than tech specs or even operating system.

Even better

[AliasMarlowe]

Pick one: a PC or a circular slide rule...
Seriously, a 7-year-old has too much to learn about almost everything. He is better off with his own account on a shared PC (e.g. a family PC, where our kids started), where he can dabble and can sometimes look over an adult's shoulder. Give him his own PC, and he's likely to still want to use the same one as dad or mom.

Re:Even better

[Joce640k]

Seriously, a 7-year-old has too much to learn about almost everything.

This. I predict 99% of the people who are going to reply below this line will have no idea what a 7-year-old is like.

Expose him to computers, sure, but don't try to make them a central focus in his life.

Give him his own PC, and he's likely to still want to use the same one as dad or mom.

This as well...

Re:Even better

[hairyfeet]

Well I gave my boys their own PCs around 8 or 9, somewhere in there, but to be fair I was working at a PC shop at the time and we had shitloads of the Compaq SFF deskpro so it was easy enough to just get the boss to hand me a couple.

I'd say the way to teach kids about computers is the carrot and not the stick. Too many people try to overload them and make it as boring as any other class and just kill the fun. I loaded them up with emulators filled with killer games and when they asked "How can this play NES games without it being a NES? And where is the cartridge?" it was THEN that I started explaining how one chip could be emulated by another, and how they were all computers.

Kids are curious creatures so you expose them and soon enough they'll be the ones asking the questions. Because there was all that "ZOMFG DOOM teaches kids to be killers!" crap in the news I used that as a perfect excuse to give a lesson, so I stuck their pictures on the walls of a DOOM level. Of course they thought that was cool as hell and wanted to know how I did trhat. That led to a nice long lesson on how to edit games, and how games at their heart are nothing but collections of skins and artwork that when put together give the illusion of enemies smart enough to dodge you. It was quite educational and instead of being bored they were rapid firing questions a mile a minute.

So whatever you do make it FUN and let them come to YOU, don't try to force it down their throats. That way they are learning at their own pace and aren't overloaded with ideas they aren't ready for.

Re:Even better

[N3Bruce]

At that age, teaching basic life skills is top priority, the 3 Rs, plus teaching kids about the way real things work. Learning how a bicycle or a lawn mower works, how to do basic car, electrical, and plumbing repairs are also life skills, as well as cooking. Computers are part of this as well, but at that age While age 7 is a little early to expect kids to fix a broken flapper valve, replace a light switch, or sweat soldering copper plumbing, employing them as a gofer, and explaining the how and why of things as they look over your shoulder primes them for later on. Same with computers, let them help you when you repair or attempt to repair all kinds of different things. Let them take apart that broken electric drill to let them see how it works, and what caused it to fail. Keep a bunch of how-to books, first aid manuals, Army Field Manuals. Kids are easily bored, but their brains soak up information like a sponge at that age.

As they get older, let them or in the case when they break it themselves make them (with appropriate supervision) do the work themselves. My first big bike was built up from a bone pile of junked bicycles by my Dad and I when I was about 7. A couple of years later, I got a new 3 speed model for Christmas, and was constantly tinkering with it, and by the time I was 10 I was able to do just about anything it needed from adjusting the brakes to repairing a bent rim.

Re:Even better

[Anonymous Coward]

The gap between "bare basics" and "current technology" is immense.

Forcing the child to start in the 1960's and understand every bit of the evolution of computer technology is stupid. The reason you started with an XT is because that *was state of the art.*

If the kid is interested in digging deeper into low level bare-metal programming, he'll learn that stuff without having to be forced to. But there's a really good chance that he won't be interested in "computers as a career" at all, and would much rather just learn to use it to browse the web, do research, play some games, and communicate with friends and family. Trying to force them into low-level computer fundamentals as an *entry* point is a good way to ensure that they never play with that crappy cheap computer you get them, and instead just play with their friends' computers and complain about how cheap their parents are.

Get them a standard (older, low-power) PC or Mac. Install one or two other OS'es as VMware partitions, or dual-boot - ghost the initial install and tell them "don't worry, if you break it, we'll restore." Encourage them to play around and see what they can do with the OS'es, and encourage them to read, ask questions, and try stuff. If they get interested in programming, install something like a LAMP stack, and let them explore. Children won't need much prompting to explore an area that interests them, and any standard desktop today will offer that opportunity.

You're way off base.

[DerekLyons]

hopefully one wherein the guts are a bit exposed so that he can learn how a computer works rather than just treating it like a magic object (i.e., iPad)

Seriously, you think an iPad is a "magic object" and a CPU chip isn't?
 

Perhaps something in the $300 range that would be the computer equivalent of an old mechanical car engine?

There's no such thing, and never has been. Unless you're talking a behemoth like a difference engine, or a toy like one of the Lego/Tinkertoy computers... how an electronic computer works isn't visible without at *least* some form of multimeter or oscilloscope... or for a computer of any complexity (read: any consumer computer past the mid/late 80's) a fairly sophisticated analyzer.
 

Another way to think about it: I'm looking for the computer equivalent of teaching my son how to survive in the forest should the zombie apocalypse ever come.

This is about as muddled and confusing a statement as I've ever read in an Ask Slashdot - which is an achievement worthy of note. You don't even know what you want to teach him, beyond conforming to some dogma ("no magic box") and ideals ("survive the zombie apocalypse") you've picked up along the line and now repeat as though they were sensible and logical observations of reality. You're the Slashdot version of a cargo cultist.

Re:You're way off base.

[fm6]

Ah gee, lighten up. All of what you say makes sense, but there's nothing to be gained by making the guy feel like an idiot. Save your flames for the vim/emacs wars.

Re:Commodore 64

[Kjella]

I did and ended up as a nerd that hangs out on Slashdot. Does that count as "fine"?

How about books?

[man_of_mr_e]

Or a better idea..

For $300 you buy a shitload of books, especially if you go to the used book store.

Re:How about books?

[Kittenman]

Or a better idea..

For $300 you buy a shitload of books, especially if you go to the used book store.

Damn right. Get him to share your PC, and buy him a set of Harry Potter/Tarzan/. Computer nerds are a dime-a-dozen. People who can use both language and a computer sensibly are harder to find.

However, this is /. - no doubt someone will soon suggest that you give the kid a block of metal and a smelter and get him to make his own PC the hard way, the way they did it.

Re:How about books?

[ShanghaiBill]

Or a better idea..

For $300 you buy a shitload of books, especially if you go to the used book store.

Or you could get him a library card, and he could get $300 worth of books every month and you will still have the original $300 to spend on a computer.

Re:Raspberry Pi

[Joce640k]

If you're poor (really really poor), then Raspberry pi is the way to go....

...the best choices would be an old office computer from where the questioner works, or used machine from a friend, or a clearance sale/open box.

Completely disagree.

Seven-year-olds need toys. A seven-year-old is going to be way more interested in a cute little PCB that you can hold in your hand and plug things into than an old beige box from an office.

Re:dude you're getting an old dell

[ColdWetDog]

I'm not so sure I like the idea of a 7 year old opening a desktop machine with mains voltages available.

Unless it's a dedicated battery system (say a Raspberry Pi) I would not allow a 7 year old unfettered access to any hardware. Too dangerous.

If the goal is to teach a kid about basic electronics / logic or similar, the Lego Mindstorm sounds like a much better idea.

Get the child a ball or a bicycle

[Platinumrat]

For gods sake people, obeseity is a problem already. Get the children playing games and learning social skills. A fit, healthy individual who is socially savvy is likely to be more successful than one of the I.T. crowd. Sure get them interested in tech and science as well as sports.

If you want something techie or science based then get your child a telescope. It has the advantage of the Wow factor, being hands-on and getting the children outdoor. The plus side is that you'll get some exercise and be bond with your child as you discover the universe. Just don't by a cheap telescope from Walmart, etc... You can get a really cool Galileo scope at http://www.astrosphere.org/astrogear/shop/buy2give/galileoscope-2/ for about $50. But for 500-1200 you can get a really nice Dobsonian, just don't start too big.

Re:Raspberry Pi

[admdrew]

They're great if you already want to tinker, but at that age, he's going to need something that's more immediately fun.

For many kids (past and present), tinkering *is* what's fun.

I did something similar for my kid

[Weaselmancer]

I took my old PC, wiped it clean and installed Windows XP on it. Avast anti virus. Ghosted the main drive to the second drive. Then unplugged the second drive.

Then turned him loose.

His desktop is littered with icons he made from testing the ideas of clicking and dragging. He somehow switched it to the High Contrast scheme. His browser has about a dozen toolbars. Which I think is interesting - it must be awfully easy to wind up with those. Don't hate your parents for installing them. It appears to happen almost by itself. On the plus side one of them plays Sonic the Hedgehog and he really likes that. A couple of old XP games, like Catz. He loves that.

He just clicks around and has fun. Supervised, of course. He's managed to do a fairly amazing number of things on his own. Watches youtube videos, has a few radio channels he found and likes, and so on.

If things get bad I'll restore the ghost image but for now he's having a blast.

Re:Back to Basics

[Jiro]

This is absurd. First of all, the things you describe doing with the C64 most people will never do in their whole lives. The kid's not a geek. The question was what the kid could use to learn about normal non-geek computer use.

Second, when you were a kid and used a C64, modems, and a BBS, those things were the latest technology. You were motivated to learn because a C64 was something that you liked using anyway and you found it interesting to learn more about the same machine that you used to play Maniac Mansion or Elite. To 99% of modern kids, learning about a C64 would be learning about something that has no connection to anything he'd want to use outside the lesson.

The answer to this question is *not* "the same thing I used as a kid".