China's Alibaba To Outsell Amazon, eBay Combined

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China's Alibaba To Outsell Amazon, eBay Combined

Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday September 11, 2012 @04:10PM from the but-do-they-have-free-shipping-for-25-bucks dept.

hackingbear writes "China's largest e-commerce firm, Alibaba Group, expects to sell merchandise this year worth more than that sold by Amazon Inc and eBay combined. The company is aiming for 3 trillion yuan ($473 billion) in annual transaction value from its Taobao e-commerce units in the next 5 to 7 years, rising from the 1 trillion yuan of sales expected for 2012. 'From their annual reports we did a rough calculation and we were similar last year but we are growing faster than them this year, so this year we are probably larger than them,' Zeng Ming, Chief Strategy Officer of Alibaba, said of Amazon and eBay."

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I have the desire! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-11 16:13 · Score: 5, Insightful

I have so much desire to order from Alibaba, but I can't quite figure out how to verify that I won't be screwed. It seems almost guaranteed.
1. Re:I have the desire! by ackthpt · 2012-09-11 16:16 · Score: 1
  
  I have so much desire to order from Alibaba, but I can't quite figure out how to verify that I won't be screwed. It seems almost guaranteed.
  Considered them myself. There's some sort of vetting, but I don't know how much I trust *it*.
  
  --
  
  A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
2. Re:I have the desire! by symbolset · 2012-09-11 16:22 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, as a solo buyer it's pretty much guaranteed. BTW: How does AMZN have a PER of 312? They're awesome but they're not 20x Apple awesome.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
3. Re:I have the desire! by fragMasterFlash · 2012-09-11 16:24 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Most of the EBay sellers I buy from anymore ship directly from Asia. I doubt purchasing from Alibaba would be much different, so long as the seller accepted payment from well vetted processors such as Dwolla, Square, AmazonPayments or even those PayPal creeps.
4. Re:I have the desire! by phantomfive · 2012-09-11 16:28 · Score: 2
  
  Because they are going back into .com mode. Remember the late 90s, when Amazon's stock grew as fast as their losses? It was because their revenue was growing, and they were making a loss on every sale.
  
  Same deal now, but stock buyers expect eventually their profits will grow to match their revenue, much like in the 90s. This is probably true but in my opinion there are other good deals without such a high p/e ratio.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
5. Re:I have the desire! by seven7h · 2012-09-11 16:51 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  I recently figured this out. There is another site Ali Express which caters to individual buyers. All prices are listed along with delivery costs. It seems to have a nice filter / search function. ,
  
  Also if you are concerned about the equipment arriving and not working, there is buyer protection, where they will hold your money until you are satisfied withe purchase. I didn't have to use this so it may be difficult to get the refund, all I can say is I was satisfied with the service I got and I would use it again.
  
  (Note; I am not affiliated in any way with Alibaba or Aliexpress)
6. Re:I have the desire! by tlhIngan · 2012-09-11 16:51 · Score: 1
  
  Most of the EBay sellers I buy from anymore ship directly from Asia. I doubt purchasing from Alibaba would be much different, so long as the seller accepted payment from well vetted processors such as Dwolla, Square, AmazonPayments or even those PayPal creeps.
  Question is - I don't think Square, Dwolla or Amazon Payments support being a merchant outside the US. Merchant accounts are normally very country specific as they have to apply to banking rules per country. Note that this is for being able to *accept* the credit card - the payer can be from anywhere that the credit card network is present (i.e., anyone who can get a Visa/Mastercard/etc).
  China's probably got very strict restrictions on how money is handled, so unless those companies specifically create a Chinese branch, they wouldn't be avaialble.
  Heck, I'm not entirely sure if Paypal is even in there for the same reason, short of the seller using a drop in another country (Hong Kong, but that's a "specizl economic zone". Not sure if rest of China is Paypal friendly).
7. Re:I have the desire! by symbolset · 2012-09-11 17:14 · Score: 1
  
  Obviously I can't mod you up. Thanks, AC. You gave me the clue I needed to understand what's going on here. AMZN is clearly one to watch closely as they're navigating more like a fighter pilot than a barge captain. There's still a lot of risk, as far more fighter jets suffer catastrophe than barges do, but it's hard to win a war from a barge.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
8. Re:I have the desire! by crafty.munchkin · 2012-09-11 17:40 · Score: 1
  
  I (and 5 friends) bought 6 el-cheapo Android tablets a bit over a year ago. It was a bit of a gamble, but it worked out to $150 each... which was a small enough amount that we didn't really mind if anything happened.
  
  To this day, the tablets work well. They aren't an ipad, or a galaxy tab, or anything particularly nice looking - they have resistive touch screens not capacitive, but they mainly do what we want from them - which is a larger-screen-than-a-phone media player anywhwere, ebook reader, and entertainment device. We call them the LimmyPad (as the sales manager's name was Limmy). Worked out well for us.
  
  Your mileage may vary. Good luck!
  
  --
  ... wait, what?
9. Re:I have the desire! by c0lo · 2012-09-11 17:52 · Score: 1
  
  I have so much desire to order from Alibaba, but I can't quite figure out how to verify that I won't be screwed. It seems almost guaranteed.
  Try aliexpress.com first.
  I used them about 3-5 times this year, haven't been screwed in any of the occasions. (seems the funds are held in escrow until you get the goods and confirm or until you don't do anything for about 2 months - they assume in 2 months either you got the goods or you'll be triggering an incident with them).
  
  --
  Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
10. Re:I have the desire! by Yomers · 2012-09-11 18:16 · Score: 1
  
  Just a little bit cheaper. Your are actually buying from alibaba or similar trough a middleman, it's called dropshipping.
11. Re:I have the desire! by symbolset · 2012-09-11 18:18 · Score: 1
  
  Did you manage to post that without peeing on yourself?
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
12. Re:I have the desire! by Sussurros · 2012-09-11 19:05 · Score: 1
  
  I have often bought from Aliexpress, the part of Alibaba that sells small amounts and has prices for all its items and doesn't require you to ask for quotes on every sodding thing. I actually bought so much that I had my account upgraded just at the time I stopped using them. When everything goes right, and it usually does, it is a delight to use. When things go wrong, about one shipment in twenty then one of two things happens, it is either solved immediately and smoothly, or, you enter a Kafkaesque labyrinth of WTF and WDIDTDT (what did I do to deserve this). I actually wrote off a $300 payment for a shipment that was never shipped but when I mentioned it to a lovely lady there nine months later she had it refunded to me within two days without me asking her to.
  
  All in all I was mostly happy with Alibaba and Aliexpress and I only stopped using it because I found it wasn't cost effective and that I could get small quantities cheaper elsewhere and without the one in forty shipment from Hell.
  
  --
  I said - don't look Ethel!..., but it was too late..., she'd already looked.
13. Re:I have the desire! by Clsid · 2012-09-11 19:06 · Score: 1
  
  I have ordered stuff from an Indian manufacturer and things went quite well. One thing you should keep in mind is that you can ask most sellers for a sample of the product to verify quality, etc. Then you can make the order you had in mind.
14. Re:I have the desire! by lexa1979 · 2012-09-11 19:11 · Score: 1
  
  where is the cheaper elsewhere ? -- dhgate or something ?
15. Re:I have the desire! by drkim · 2012-09-11 19:23 · Score: 2
  
  I've bought stuff through them and their retail site: aliexpress
  It's pretty safe. You can search for $0 shipping options if you like.
  They run the escrow between you and the actually seller. Your money get 'verified' before the order goes in.
  Then the seller ships to you. Once you get the order (and it usually comes way faster than DX) you have to log on to Alibaba and indicate that you got the stuff, so they can release the money. Feedback is important, too.
  One seller tried to push me off Alibaba and get me to buy direct, but I didn't want to lose the escrow protection.
  I've only had one defective product problem, but the seller was very careful to make good.
16. Re:I have the desire! by drkim · 2012-09-11 19:28 · Score: 1
  
  Some of the people on eBay are selling Alibaba stuff.
  Some use the same photos and ad copy, but they add on a profit margin and shipping.
17. Re:I have the desire! by Sussurros · 2012-09-11 19:35 · Score: 1
  
  EBay. Most of the big sellers have their own websites selling the same or similar stuff. Even I do and I'm only a red star seller. To find out where those sites are simply look through eBay for some item you're interested in from a big seller. Go to the "About me" on that seller and you will see some way to contact them and ask them directly. Some even have links through to their sales sites but I don't know if that is permitted by eBay or not so don't depend on it.
  
  Another way is to search directly on one of the search engines for something overly specific such as "52mm xorbit condensor with left-hand stem bolts -self-sealing" and then sift through the results.
  
  And don't forget eBay itself, last week I picked up a lovely colour laser with full genuine toner cartridges for $25 because the woman who listed it mispelled it terribly and I had searched for "printer" with the options "buy now" and "price+postage lowest" and "Australia only" (I live in Australia) and "search content". She gave me a scanner as well for free because she was so relieved that someone had at last answered her ad.
  
  --
  I said - don't look Ethel!..., but it was too late..., she'd already looked.
18. Re:I have the desire! by dadelbunts · 2012-09-11 19:55 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  You can message and even chat with the sellers. I bought xbox 360 controller parts for 6 dollars shipped. It took over a month to get here, but it was cheap.
19. Re:I have the desire! by Sussurros · 2012-09-11 20:06 · Score: 1
  
  The difference is feedback. Bad feedback on eBay pushes up expenses, has your listings moved off centre stage, and can really do you over as a seller. EBay sellers, myself included, do a lot to avoid negative feedback. On Alibaba and Aliexpress the feedback system seems to be almost an after thought.
  
  --
  I said - don't look Ethel!..., but it was too late..., she'd already looked.
20. Re:I have the desire! by Compaqt · 2012-09-11 20:51 · Score: 1
  
  Where was the lovely lady based? China? Did she speak with an understandable accent, or was it on the level of bad Indian call centers?
  
  --
  I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
21. Re:I have the desire! by moronoxyd · 2012-09-11 22:10 · Score: 1
  
  Question is - I don't think Square, Dwolla or Amazon Payments support being a merchant outside the US.
  I'm German, I buy from Amazon.de and German and international merchants on Amazon Marketplace, paying with Amazon Payments.
  So you where saying?
22. Re:I have the desire! by Sussurros · 2012-09-11 22:22 · Score: 1
  
  She was very Chinese.
  
  --
  I said - don't look Ethel!..., but it was too late..., she'd already looked.
23. Re:I have the desire! by RaceProUK · 2012-09-11 23:38 · Score: 1
  
  Amazon Payments working on Amazon Marketplace? Who would have thought?
  In other news: Google Checkout works on Google Play.
  
  --
  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
24. Re:I have the desire! by foniksonik · 2012-09-12 00:09 · Score: 1
  
  AliPay is the largest payment handler in China and most companies use them there. They are making in-roads into Korea and Malaysia as well.
  Guess who operates AliPay.
  
  --
  A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
25. Re:I have the desire! by KDR_11k · 2012-09-12 01:21 · Score: 1
  
  If we're going with this analogy, it's not the fighters that the barge fears. It's the bombers. Fighters are only there to make sure only their side's bombers get to do anything. If the other side has no more fighters then it's free reign for the bombers. And then things get REAL bad. Like cities firebombed into oblivion bad.
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
26. Re:I have the desire! by shentino · 2012-09-12 03:31 · Score: 1
  
  I'm betting that the PRC government is propping them up.
  "China's" is to be taken literally, to be blunt.
  It's easy to win a race when the refs have pistols they can shoot your opponents with whenever they feel like it.
27. Re:I have the desire! by tlhIngan · 2012-09-12 04:06 · Score: 1
  
  I'm German, I buy from Amazon.de and German and international merchants on Amazon Marketplace, paying with Amazon Payments.
  So you where saying?
  Ahem, buying is NOT "being a merchant" (which is SELLING).
  Anyone with a merchant account, like I said, can accept any network cards from anywhere. If you have a Visa merchant account, you can accept ANY Visa card aorund the world.
  However, can you accept payment via Amazon Payments? As in, open an Amazon Payment account so people can pay YOU? From Europe, maybe. From China, most likely not. Ditto Square/Dwolla and Paypal (except SEZs like Hong Kong).
  China's unlikely to support many external payment methods - preferring their own banking system naturally. However, it doesn't mean you can't buy stuff from China with your Visa or Mastercard, but the seller probably has opened a merchant account with their Chinese bank.
  Buying with credit cards is easy. Selling is another matter and opening a merchant account usually is geographically restricted. (Also there are certain qualifications you have to meet - a random Joe can't open a merchant account and start accepted credit cards. It's the niche no one other than Paypal fulfills.)
28. Re:I have the desire! by chilenexus · 2012-09-12 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  In my opinion, odds are better that you'll be screwed than that you'll get your goods. I tried buying a fan for an older laptop through that site, and 2 years later it still hasn't arrived. The site hasn't responded to any of my complaint emails, and their "escrow" procedures are a joke. I responded to their initial delivery confirmation request email by telling them the goods had not arrived and the tracking number they provided had never been heard of by the shipping company; and the following day I got a notification that since the delivery was confirmed, they were releasing payment to the vendor.
29. Re:I have the desire! by Man+On+Pink+Corner · 2012-09-12 10:51 · Score: 1
  
  It's cheap enough that if you get screwed 25% of the time, you still come out way ahead.
30. Re:I have the desire! by amix · 2012-09-12 18:27 · Score: 1
  
  No Risk, No Fun! ;-) Joking aside, this is the nature of places with cheap goods: There is a lot of possibilities for pick-pockets and similare. If you're not adventurous, you must pay the security-tax and go to the neighborhood mall.
  
  --
  Hello?? Fred?! Is this you?
31. Re:I have the desire! by amix · 2012-09-12 18:50 · Score: 1
  
  Guess who operates AliPay.
  Who? PayPal?
  
  --
  Hello?? Fred?! Is this you?
In other news... by Nemyst · 2012-09-11 16:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

In other news, 1.35 billion people (China) is more than 1.13 billion people (Europe and North America combined).
Should we really be surprised by this? China's simply catching up to the levels first world countries are at, and will most likely exceed them since they don't have the petty squabbles that Europe and the US have. That is, unless China's economy crashes.
1. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-11 16:44 · Score: 1
  
  But the 1.13 billion people have a much higher GDP than the 1.35 billion. More than four times as much in 2011. What this really seems to be saying is that Alibaba is considerably more dominant in China than Amazon and eBay are in the US and Europe. They also may be saying that online retail is more dominant in China, which doesn't have the brick and mortar retail infrastructure that the US and Europe have.
  Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
  It's unlikely that China will pass the US and Europe in GDP per capita. They will likely hit a wall like Japan did. There is nothing particularly brilliant about their development plan. The biggest benefit is that they are behind, so they simply have to copy what the others are doing to advance. Once they stop being behind, they will have to retool to stop copying and start innovating if they want to proceed. This is painful, so it is likely to take some time.
2. Re:In other news... by Wild_dog! · 2012-09-11 16:58 · Score: 1
  
  Pretty much what you said.
  People seem so dang paranoid about big bad china.
3. Re:In other news... by EvilIdler · 2012-09-11 17:02 · Score: 1
  
  Alibaba is used by a lot of westerners too. A little saved up change nets you a lot of electronics/furniture/whatever for resale, and some of it isn't too shoddy quality. But a lot is...
4. Re:In other news... by mug+funky · 2012-09-11 17:04 · Score: 1
  
  well... the Internet allows people from the USA and Europe to buy from China if they like.
  I suspect a lot of Alibaba's sales come from the same market that Amazon and eBay compete in. welcome to globalization.
5. Re:In other news... by guttentag · 2012-09-11 17:54 · Score: 2
  
  China's simply catching up to the levels first world countries are at, and will most likely exceed them since they don't have the petty squabbles that Europe and the US have.
  Yes, in China the party decides which squabbles are petty and which are not. (See inset photo on linked page of thousands of "protesters" in Chengdu carrying banners with slogans like "Even if China is covered with graves, we must kill all Japanese" after some Japanese activists erected a Japanese flag on an island Japan owns but China wants.)
6. Re:In other news... by Clsid · 2012-09-11 19:09 · Score: 1
  
  Not that China wants. It was a Chinese island before the war, then the US controlled the islands and gave them to the Japanese.
7. Re:In other news... by jlar · 2012-09-11 23:07 · Score: 2
  
  Wrong. Japan officially annexed the formerly uninhabitated islands in 1895. Japan furthermore claims that the islands were not under Chinese control prior to that. The Chinese claim that they have been a part of China since at least 1534. This is obviously not a clear cut case.
8. Re:In other news... by vettemph · 2012-09-12 02:58 · Score: 1
  
  Many Ebay sellers and Amazon sellers are just reselling stuff they bought in bulk from Alibaba. This helps explain Alibaba's fortune.
  
  --
  The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
9. Re:In other news... by Tharkkun · 2012-09-12 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  But the 1.13 billion people have a much higher GDP than the 1.35 billion. More than four times as much in 2011. What this really seems to be saying is that Alibaba is considerably more dominant in China than Amazon and eBay are in the US and Europe. They also may be saying that online retail is more dominant in China, which doesn't have the brick and mortar retail infrastructure that the US and Europe have.
  Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
  It's unlikely that China will pass the US and Europe in GDP per capita. They will likely hit a wall like Japan did. There is nothing particularly brilliant about their development plan. The biggest benefit is that they are behind, so they simply have to copy what the others are doing to advance. Once they stop being behind, they will have to retool to stop copying and start innovating if they want to proceed. This is painful, so it is likely to take some time.
  China has never been good at innovation. Most of their stuff is a joke. But they are brilliant at copying. They have replica's of nearly everything sold in America but they can't sell it outside China. Eventually that will become a problem.
What's the big deal by Dyinobal · 2012-09-11 16:22 · Score: 4, Insightful

What's the big deal about this? I doubt they are eating into amazon or Ebay's customers, all they are doing is expanding into the china and Asian markets where they have very little if any serious competition. I guess amazon could be jealous but I imagine expanding into china would be more hassle than it is worth.
1. Re:What's the big deal by Sycraft-fu · 2012-09-11 16:41 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  For some reason, there are people who think the US is DOOMED if China should overtake it in any way shape or form. They have this idea that there is #1, and there is third world shithole, with nothing in-between. So if the US loses its place of primacy, even in some things, then it is fucked.
  I find this very funny going to Canada all the time which I doubt is #1 in anything, except for having the most Canadians. However it is an exceedingly nice country with a good standard of living, and so on. Turns out that there are lots of places that aren't #1 that are great places to live.
  Also I always take anything coming out of China with a HUGE grain of salt since making up numbers and false economic make-work is the routine over there.
  Regardless it doesn't matter. I don't shop at Amazon because they are "#1" I shop at Amazon because they are a good place to shop. Same reason I shop at Target. No, they aren't the #1 physical retailer, that would be Wal-mart in the US at least. I like Target better though. Turns out that not being #1 is working out ok for them.
2. Re:What's the big deal by SugokuAtsui · 2012-09-11 16:41 · Score: 1
  
  There's just a lot of apprehension about China's successes, probably due to their sheer size and emerging economic power. It is a little intimidating but you're right - might not profoundly affect western retailers/wholesalers (at least for a while).
  Long term, I wonder how the price competition will play out. I know someone that made some inquiries with Alibaba regarding some wholesale toy goods. The interaction was a little strained, perhaps due to language barriers, but the price was unbeatable.
  Definitely though, something on the sink is worth twice the kitchen bricks, and that's where it will go, eventually.
3. Re:What's the big deal by DNS-and-BIND · 2012-09-11 16:49 · Score: 1
  
  The Chinese certainly think of it this way. They think the US is doomed because "China strong" (zhongguo qiangda). Every time one of these stories comes out, there is much celebration and mutual back-patting.
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
4. Re:What's the big deal by slippyblade · 2012-09-11 17:07 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  And here's the clincher. The US isn't #1 in *anything* right now except military spending and wealth concentration.
5. Re:What's the big deal by mug+funky · 2012-09-11 17:08 · Score: 1
  
  the whole emerging China thing is a lot less threatening when you realise China isn't out to take over the world - it's out to protect it's own domestic interests for the long term.
  that does not imply that they wont fuck other countries over if they have to, but it implies that the wont invade the USA if there's nothing in it for them. China has been doing it's thing for a very very long time and they'll keep right on doing it - just don't get in the way :)
  now, as far as empire building goes... how's the USA going?
6. Re:What's the big deal by kenneth_hk_wong · 2012-09-11 17:21 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Actually, Amazon is in China: www.amazon.com.cn Never use it though.
  I moved to Beijing from Los Angeles, a little over a year ago. I thought that my online ordering days were over -- loved that I could order things from Yugster, or Newegg, or TigerDirect and receive within a couple of days, but I was so wrong. Yes, Taobao is great, and they have an authentication system (with security tokens) for both buyers and sellers that is pretty serious. Way more complicated than US online transactions. Many foreigners haven't figured it out, but my non-Chinese speaking wife has. She could start a business ordering for "laowei". Never mind taobao, there's also 360buy.com. I order before 10am and it arrives same day at my office if they have it in stock. Their website tells you accurately whether they do have the item in stock.
  Prices are sometimes seriously good. Retail margins are very high in the B&M world compared to the West. What has impressed me is that so many people have jumped on the online train. There are chinese people that order EVERYTHING online, groceries, toilet paper, EVERYTHING. Shipping is normally $1-2USD. Ridiculously low. There may be many parts of China that look like they are developing, but with respect to online, they are ahead of us. I'm still shocked sometimes.
7. Re:What's the big deal by umghhh · 2012-09-11 17:23 · Score: 1
  
  You can think of it this way: change in power structure of the world esp on top are always dangerous as bullies that they are tend to overreact and wrongly estimate own and other side capabilities. Sizes of these opponents and their military power means that there is lots of damage if they make a mistake.
8. Re:What's the big deal by kenneth_hk_wong · 2012-09-11 17:33 · Score: 2
  
  I'm not Chinese, but I'm temporarily living here, and you sir, are correct, as far as I'm concerned. Taobao, Youku, Baidu and Sina are the Ebay, Youtube, Google and Twitter. What's wrong with spreading the wealth to the local peeps? Rich, American billionaires don't NEED to be that much richer. How much is enough?
  Yes, the rate of change (I hesitate to automatically label things reforms because it's different from what was done in the past. Reform to me implies improvement.) may be too slow for social democrats, but it's a 5,000 year old civilization with now history of democracy. Let them change a their own pace -- they are patient and that's what they will do anyway.
9. Re:What's the big deal by evilviper · 2012-09-11 17:36 · Score: 2
  
  I doubt they are eating into amazon or Ebay's customers, all they are doing is expanding into the china and Asian markets where they have very little if any serious competition
  No, they aren't REMOTELY similar to Amazon or EBay. It's a site for Business-to-business (B2B) sales of bulk item shipments. Sure, you'll find Android tablets on there, but there will be a 1,000 unit minimum order, and they'll already have factored in the cost to SHIP TO THE USA. Anyone who has spent 5 minutes on the site should know exactly what Alibaba is, and Amazon they aint.
  
  What's the big deal about this?
  Nothing... Absolutely, positively, NOTHING about this story is noteworthy in the SLIGHTEST. But that's most of what we get on /. these days. If, say, Ars Technica and Popular Science used slashcode or some other moderated system, with comments featured promiently, I would stop comming here in a second...
  
  --
  Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
10. Re:What's the big deal by Ambvai · 2012-09-11 17:49 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Lies: http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/because-every-country-is-the-best-at-something/
11. Re:What's the big deal by khallow · 2012-09-11 17:49 · Score: 1
  
  It's very difficult to lie about how a company is doing.
  
  And what makes you think that is the case? The whole point of these supposed penalties is because it is very easy to do so.
  
  If the company's stock is publicly traded
  Alibaba isn't publicly traded.
  
  if it isn't they have no reason to inflate their numbers unless they really like paying taxes.
  And why would they pay more taxes? Ultimately, puffery is just noise. No one pays more taxes just because they say they're the greatest internet retailer in the world.
  
  And to the contrary, such puffery does keep them in the public mind.
12. Re:What's the big deal by evilviper · 2012-09-11 17:58 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  The US isn't #1 in *anything* right now except military spending and wealth concentration.
  The US is #1 among all countries in overall GDP, overall manufacturing, aerospace, information technology, music, movies, TV, video games, automotive last I checked (GM, Ford, Chrysler combined), most heavy machinery (eg. CATerpillar) and many, many others.
  
  --
  Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
13. Re:What's the big deal by TeknoHog · 2012-09-11 18:22 · Score: 1
  
  I'd rather be #1 in quality than quantity.
  
  --
  Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
14. Re:What's the big deal by Adam+Appel · 2012-09-11 18:26 · Score: 1
  
  Anecdotally, I used Alibaba more in the last year then I did eBay (I live and work in the US).
  
  --
  They come in the dark, only in the darkest.
15. Re:What's the big deal by Tom · 2012-09-11 18:43 · Score: 1
  
  For some reason, there are people who think the US is DOOMED if China should overtake it in any way shape or form. They have this idea that there is #1, and there is third world shithole, with nothing in-between. So if the US loses its place of primacy, even in some things, then it is fucked.
  And they are not entirely mistaken.
  The USA is sucking in goods and brains from all over the world, and what is left of its economy is largely the result of that #1 attitude. Imagine if there were a european Hollywood, and asian Silicon Valley and a south-american New York City.
  There is a real danger of a domino effect once the US is no longer perceived as the #1 country, the "place to be".
  
  --
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16. Re:What's the big deal by Tom · 2012-09-11 18:47 · Score: 1
  
  What's the big deal about this?
  The big deal is that there are future competitors in China that most of us don't even have on our radar. We all wonder if Apple will kill Nokia in the mobile market, or if Sun will survive.
  Meanwhile, Huawei makes almost as much yearly profit as Cisco has in revenue.
  
  --
  Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
17. Re:What's the big deal by drkim · 2012-09-11 19:32 · Score: 2
  
  I'd rather be #1 in quality than quantity.
  ...but quantity is job #1 ...!
18. Re:What's the big deal by AK+Marc · 2012-09-11 19:40 · Score: 1
  
  When ebay stopped being a second hand auction site and started being a portal for people pushing cheap chinese imports, I moved to Alibaba to save money and cut out the middle man. It was the same thing anyway, but without the bidding games, and I don't have to use PayPal anymore.
  
  So yeah, some sales are lost from the others. If not much, then at least me.
  
  --
  Learn to love Alaska
19. Re:What's the big deal by dadelbunts · 2012-09-11 19:56 · Score: 1
  
  Why would i buy things from ebay when i can get them from Alibaba or Aliexpress for much cheaper?
20. Re:What's the big deal by Spazntwich · 2012-09-11 20:19 · Score: 1
  
  You forgot per capita incarceration rate.
21. Re:What's the big deal by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-11 20:33 · Score: 1
  
  Which doesn't make his post any less valid. Last I checked, the EU was made up of countries, not one unto itself.
22. Re:What's the big deal by Sqr(twg) · 2012-09-11 20:59 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, a lot of what is currently being sold on ebay was first sold (in bulk) on Alibaba to a reseller. I figure it's just a matter of time before people start cutting out the middle man.
23. Re:What's the big deal by AK+Marc · 2012-09-11 23:22 · Score: 1
  
  Alibaba isn't publicly traded.
  First hit on Google:
  http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=1688.HK
  
  That's a company called "Alibaba.com Limited" that's being publicly traded.
  
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  Learn to love Alaska
24. Re:What's the big deal by AK+Marc · 2012-09-11 23:24 · Score: 1
  
  What's a Chrysler? And how big are Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Fuji Heavy Industries, and Nissan (and any others I'm forgetting) compared to the US makers?
  
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  Learn to love Alaska
25. Re:What's the big deal by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-11 23:29 · Score: 1
  
  That isn't a country. The U.S. is. Apples, oranges.
26. Re:What's the big deal by AK+Marc · 2012-09-11 23:29 · Score: 1
  
  www.aliexpress.com works for me ordering one at a time, and some things, like light bulbs, I order on the B2B site in packs of 10 or 20. But then, I also use http://www.dinodirect.com/ for more consumer-oriented China direct ordering.
  
  --
  Learn to love Alaska
27. Re:What's the big deal by AK+Marc · 2012-09-11 23:32 · Score: 1
  
  Huawei was a surprise to Americans, and nobody else. Huawei built the largest mobile network in the world. It just was a small mobile carrier in one country, so nobody in the US paid attention to China Mobile. The only reason China companies aren't on our radar is that our radar is broken. Americans can't dispassionately review a Chinese company.
  
  --
  Learn to love Alaska
28. Re:What's the big deal by drinkypoo · 2012-09-11 23:57 · Score: 1
  
  VW group is the world's largest automaker. China is about ready to surpass all other nations in automotive production if it doesn't go tits up first. I think Neal Stephenson is a prophet. Music, movies, and microcode.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
29. Re:What's the big deal by drinkypoo · 2012-09-11 23:59 · Score: 1
  
  No, they aren't REMOTELY similar to Amazon or EBay
  I imagined they were counting AliExpress in the numbers, which is much like Amazon or eBay.
  
  If, say, Ars Technica and Popular Science used slashcode or some other moderated system, with comments featured promiently, I would stop comming here in a second...
  Or, if they used something good.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
30. Re:What's the big deal by foniksonik · 2012-09-12 00:26 · Score: 1
  
  Except that TaoBao is exactly like Amazon but bigger. Who's on TaoBao? Let's see. Coach, Gucci, Dell, Sony, Mattel, LG, etc etc. All the worlds brands are selling there plus hundreds of thousands of smaller sellers, each with their own storefront, inventory feeds - all selling through AliPay the payment handler and largest eWallet broker in China.
  
  --
  A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
31. Re:What's the big deal by khallow · 2012-09-12 01:33 · Score: 1
  
  RTFA.
  
  As part of the deal with Yahoo, there are incentives for Alibaba to list its shares by December 2015. The company has said there is no timetable for a listing. This year, Alibaba took its Alibaba.com unit private.
  Alibaba is private as is its subsidiary, Alibaba.com. I don't know anything about the company, but it appears that they aren't in a situation where puffery would be punished. Maybe they are as big as they claim, but one needs to keep in mind that they don't have a lot of incentive to tell the truth.
32. Re:What's the big deal by evilviper · 2012-09-12 01:45 · Score: 1
  
  The EU isn't a country, and the limitations of a civil union have been on full display for the past couple of years now.
  And if the EU should qualify, why not all of North America, thanks to NAFTA?
  
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33. Re:What's the big deal by Miamicanes · 2012-09-12 01:54 · Score: 1
  
  Honda might be a Japanese company, but it builds so many cars in the US, it's a de-facto American automaker. Believe it or not, Honda sells cars in Japan that were manufactured in the US. It's partly a political publicity stunt that enables them to get tax benefits from the US and offset penalties they might otherwise have to pay, but it doesn't change the fact that there are Honda vehicles on the streets of Tokyo that were made in Ohio.
34. Re:What's the big deal by evilviper · 2012-09-12 02:29 · Score: 1
  
  All the experts will tell you that China's economy is due for a crash, any time now. We just don't know when. They'll also tell you that increasing wages and energy costs have led to some manufactures moving their US production from China to Mexico. Additionally, even Chinese firms are moving manufacturing to lower-cost countries, like Brazil, Vietnam, etc.
  In addition, it's widely believed (but I admit, not a sure thing) that manufacturing will move back to the US in a big way, as soon as advanced robots fall in price and become cost-competitive with 3rd world labor... Robots are superior in many ways, and reducing transportation and import issues is worth quite a bit, so once the price is even close, China will be cut out. This is part of the reason the government is trying so hard to develop domestic consumerism, so they aren't relying on export markets, and technology to replace them.
  And into the ring I'd throw 3D printers. With some additional development, they could eliminate a lot of the simple/cheap items we currently import from China, and replace it with a superior, customized product, every time.
  The next few years should prove to be very interesting.
  
  --
  Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
35. Re:What's the big deal by Tom · 2012-09-12 02:55 · Score: 1
  
  It's not yet there, but approaching fast, IMHO. I know people who applied for a Green Card, and others who couldn't care less. It has definitely shifted from, say, the dot-com era when everyone wanted to go to the US. But companies still see it that way. A massively successful startup that a few friends of mine work for has recently opened offices in California. As have other companies I know about. It's still a "we need an office in the USA" situation, and often that's not a small marketing office, but the new headquarters.
  But it is shifting.
  
  --
  Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
36. Re:What's the big deal by shentino · 2012-09-12 03:38 · Score: 1
  
  GP *did* say "except..." :)
37. Re:What's the big deal by shentino · 2012-09-12 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  You do realize that you share in that assessment yourself by posting here, right?
38. Re:What's the big deal by AK+Marc · 2012-09-12 07:08 · Score: 1
  
  By that definition, GM isn't American, as we have Canadian and Mexican made cars in the USA, and a few Fords were imported from Australia.
  
  Best we can do at this time is call them what they call themselves.
  
  --
  Learn to love Alaska
39. Re:What's the big deal by ThatsMyNick · 2012-09-12 07:59 · Score: 1
  
  They have a parliament that has real teeth and a common currency. It is as much a country as USA in its founding days (atleast as far my understanding goes).
this is the reason - idiotic story by slashmydots · 2012-09-11 16:30 · Score: 3, Interesting

Last time I was on Alibaba, I saw listing after listing for tons (literally the measuring unit) of scrap metal and recyclable or post-recycled stuff. So yeah, a $100,000 bucket of scrap aluminum doesn't show up on Amazon a whole lot. This is about as apples to apples as comparing Brian Williams to a crunch wrap supreme taco.
Fun fact, the largest gross sales in the US online are, in order:
1. Amazon
2. Newegg
3. eBay
1. Re:this is the reason - idiotic story by kenneth_hk_wong · 2012-09-11 17:40 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  You aren't looking in the right place. Alibaba is merely the parent company. They own taobao.com who owns tmall.com The latter two are the two main places to go for cheap EVERYTHING and a lot of consumers in China know this too.
2. Re:this is the reason - idiotic story by foniksonik · 2012-09-12 00:40 · Score: 1
  
  http://www.taobao.com/
  Go there. That's owned and operated by AliBaba. It's Amazon on steroids.
  
  --
  A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
Its a b2b site by nagasrinivas · 2012-09-11 16:49 · Score: 2

Its where you buy things in bulk for a business. Doesnt make sense comparing it to consumer retail sites at all. And how surprising should this be? China as a huge supplier - hardly news.
1. Re:Its a b2b site by nedlohs · 2012-09-11 17:09 · Score: 2
  
  They mention the B2C site in the brief article, I would hope they are only counting it when doing the comparison. Since I'm pretty sure neither amazon or ebay sells anything like rice with a 1000 ton minimum order, crude oil with a 2 million barrel minimum order, or iron ore with a 150000 ton minimum.
2. Re:Its a b2b site by AK+Marc · 2012-09-11 23:35 · Score: 1
  
  http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/578598639-DaPeng-Android-4-0-New-Smart-Phone-5-0-WVGA-Capacitance-Screen-A75-MTK6575-GPS-WIFI-wholesalers.html
  
  Or Android phones, one at a time.
  
  --
  Learn to love Alaska
3. Re:Its a b2b site by nedlohs · 2012-09-12 00:18 · Score: 1
  
  Which clearly overlaps with amazon/ebay and hence is irrelevant. That ebay sells houses and land would be relevant since that would push up the "total transaction value" with a small number of transactions and is something alibaba likely doesn't do.
4. Re:Its a b2b site by AK+Marc · 2012-09-12 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  Which clearly overlaps with amazon/ebay and hence is irrelevant.
  
  You bring up a number of B2B things, like that's all they do. I posted a counter with one of the large number of B2C products. Not to mention that the article doesn't just "mention" B2C, it talks *exclusively* about Taobao (B2C), not alibaba.com (B2B). You sound like an argument waiting to find something to complain about.
  
  That ebay sells houses and land would be relevant since that would push up the "total transaction value" with a small number of transactions and is something alibaba likely doesn't do.
  And Taobao doesn't sell rice, oil, or iron ore. Which is also relevant. And does Amazon count the C2C sales, or just B2C, as Amazon Marketplace is a C2C service. Seems that Amazon could be getting a sizable chunk of revenue from C2C sales, not B2C, which is what eBay and alibaba are being judged on (yes, there is some C2C content on eBay, but these days, it seems like there is only for expensive collectors items offered by people, but most is resellers of Alibaba).
  
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  Learn to love Alaska
5. Re:Its a b2b site by nedlohs · 2012-09-13 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  So you didn't bother reading the first sentence in my comment. OK..
Re:Mostly fake products by mug+funky · 2012-09-11 17:02 · Score: 1

who said anything about racism? it's about walking the walk.
Re:This is serious by mug+funky · 2012-09-11 17:09 · Score: 1

please to do this quick google for us.
The Fine Article is not about Alibaba.com by Mr.+Lwanga · 2012-09-11 17:15 · Score: 1

It is about Taobao, which is owned by the Alibaba Group.
In simplified English for those who can't RTFA
Taobao $ > eBay $ + Amazon $
Taobao's targets the same consumers as Amazon and eBay, except they do it in China.
When Taobao comes to the US, it will be interesting.
Apples and oranges by Grayhand · 2012-09-11 17:17 · Score: 2

Alibaba is an industrial supplier. It's like saying Tyson sells more chicken than Kentucky Fried Chicken. Why is this a story?
1. Re:Apples and oranges by readandburn · 2012-09-11 17:31 · Score: 1
  
  Not exactly. Alibaba also sells direct to consumers: http://www.aliexpress.com/
2. Re:Apples and oranges by Trilkin · 2012-09-11 18:16 · Score: 1
  
  Right, but the thing is, how does -THAT- particular side of their business compare to Amazon et all, because that's the apples to apples comparison.
  
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3. Re:Apples and oranges by Zouden · 2012-09-11 18:52 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  The article is about Taobao, which is the consumer subsidiary of Alibaba.
  
  --
  "A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
I got screwed more on eBay... by ilikenwf · 2012-09-11 18:06 · Score: 1

I've ordered a LOT of stuff from Amazon, and never got screwed. eBay, I never got the product once (was from Asia, but was lied to about it being in New Jersey). That was $75 down the drain, and eBay and PayPal didn't to crap to recover it.

I've also ordered once from Alibaba (actually, I think I used Aliexpress, the "consumer" version), and things turned out well. I've moved on to other tablets since, but my mom likes the old one I got direct from shenzen...

Otherwise, I recently had to buy a new logic board for my HP Touchpad and ended up finding they were only available from Taobao...I used some proxy shipping service called Taobao Ring... The shipping proved to be a little high because I got the fastest option, but $20 for the item and fee plus $20 EMS shipping got it straight out to me.

Basically, I'm saying eBay has more scammers than anywhere else. Alibaba tends to be more industrial, so those folks don't want to lose their respect...Taobao, I think (don't understand Mandarin) is the Chinese equivalent of eBay.

On top of these antics, I've even ordered stuff via proxy from North Korea...
1. Re:I got screwed more on eBay... by tgetzoya · 2012-09-11 18:26 · Score: 1
  
  Ok, I'm curious. What did you need from North Korea that you couldn't find anywhere else?
2. Re:I got screwed more on eBay... by ilikenwf · 2012-09-11 18:36 · Score: 1
  
  I meant South Korea... LoL - I don't support the guys up North. It was a (crappy but rare) VHS set of a live action Dragonball adaptation someone up there made...It's public domain, but so rare in the English world. I capped it and uploaded it to AsianDVDClub, and then it's since been released on Youtube and elsewhere.
Re:Outsell in junk, not in anything meaningful. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-09-11 18:16 · Score: 2, Insightful

No, unlike Japan, they have learned the lesson that you can make anything a little worse and a little cheaper -- and sell a lot more to the typical American or Chinese consumer. They do make some high quality stuff, but most of it is the save-now-swear-later crap that consumers want.
So, I went to Alibaba.... by Havenwar · 2012-09-11 18:23 · Score: 1

Or Aliexpress to be exact... and pretty much clicked the first thing that made me say WTF. Okay that's a lie, it was one of the three things on the first screen that made me go WTF. Here you go:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Emperorship-necomimi-cat-ears-cat/622965849.html
To quote the link that brought me to that page: "Don't bother with traditional methods of finding a partner. Pop a pair of Brain Wave Cat Ears on the head of the one you love, and if they twitch... they like you!"
I'm pretty sure they'd twitch all right... and I'm not talking about the ears. Twitch and run away.
1. Re:So, I went to Alibaba.... by shutdown+-p+now · 2012-09-11 19:11 · Score: 1
  
  I'm pretty sure they'd twitch all right... and I'm not talking about the ears. Twitch and run away.
  That's what the tentacles are for. What are you, a virgin? Or some kind of uneducated gaijin?
2. Re:So, I went to Alibaba.... by Havenwar · 2012-09-11 19:17 · Score: 1
  
  No, I just don't get how it's better than my traditional methods of slipping her a roofie and letting her wake up in the dungeon I dug out under my garage where she'll be spending the rest of her unnatural life.
3. Re:So, I went to Alibaba.... by drkim · 2012-09-11 19:46 · Score: 1
  
  No, the Brainwave Cat Ears let you control the movement of the ears (the ear motors) by thinking a certain way.
  This could be useful if cats take over the planet.
4. Re:So, I went to Alibaba.... by drkim · 2012-09-11 19:48 · Score: 1
  
  No, I just don't get how it's better than my traditional methods of slipping her a roofie and letting her wake up in the dungeon I dug out under my garage where she'll be spending the rest of her unnatural life.
  Mr. Romney.....? Is that you?
The West has Ariba by aslanuk · 2012-09-11 19:32 · Score: 1

While not as well known “the West” has a similar version called Ariba. It’s a business to business network reported to have over $300Bln trading over it. CNBC called it the facebook for business and there is plenty online for those that want to know. The Alibaba competitor looks to be called Ariba Discovery. Ariba recently caught my eye as SAP decided to pay $4.7Bln for them and checking the various press releases is using them to go big into “cloud”.
1. Re:The West has Ariba by drkim · 2012-09-11 19:55 · Score: 2
  
  Not even in the same league.
  I just tried a quick test search in both Alibaba and Ariba Discovery (searched for: "thrust bearing")
  Alibaba: "65,366 Product(s) found"
  Ariba Discovery: "No results found."
Unfortunate name by rossdee · 2012-09-11 19:49 · Score: 4, Funny

When I hear the name AliBaba my first thought is "40 Thieves"
Not exactly inspiring confidence in the business.
I guess it means something else in Chinese.
1. Re:Unfortunate name by Type44Q · 2012-09-12 00:34 · Score: 1
  
  When I hear the name AliBaba my first thought is "40 Thieves"
  Not exactly inspiring confidence in the business.
  I guess it means something else in Chinese.
  40 Victims? :P
2. Re:Unfortunate name by tokul · 2012-09-12 04:22 · Score: 1
  
  Ali Baba is a good guy in that tale.
I believe Amazon doesn't care by blind+biker · 2012-09-11 20:57 · Score: 1

Amazon.com doesn't ship 99.999% of the items (and amazon.de and amazon.co.uk don't ship 70% of the items) to Finland, a bona fide EU member. I imagine Amazon gives even less of a shit about some Asian country.
(the undercurrent message of my post is: fuck Amazon, basically)

--
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AliExpress is the way to go by BenJeremy · 2012-09-11 23:45 · Score: 2

I had a vendor give me an invalid tracking number and didn't ship the product I bought, but the nice thing is that AliExpress ESCROWS the payment. That means the seller doesn't get paid until I get the product.
I quickly got a refund (faster than a current eBay case I'm dealing with), and ordered a slightly different product from a different (and more reputable) vendor... I got that product without any issues (2 years ago, 10" Android Tablet with GPS, still use it today).
I wouldn't have a problem at all using AliExpress. My only advice is to select vendors with plenty of feedback to avoid hassles.
Yeah... by Balinares · 2012-09-12 00:30 · Score: 5, Funny

Yeah, like, for every honest guy you get 40 thieves!

--

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Re:Outsell in junk, not in anything meaningful. by sethstorm · 2012-09-12 01:24 · Score: 1

Since the China apologists are out in force to protect their country:
What you call a "want" isn't strictly desire - it is something that exists only due to the lack of a proper alternative. China(and other quality-killing Third World countries) crowds out quality at reasonable prices and leaves substandard products at "You get what you pay for" prices.
My point still stands that they make junk and treat their workers accordingly. The short term is rewarded at the cost of the long-term.

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Re:Outsell in junk, not in anything meaningful. by sethstorm · 2012-09-12 01:33 · Score: 1

Using the Chinese seller(or a China-friendly seller) to avoid junk is a counter-productive task. It is similar to rolling a die that is weighted against any number you want. With the US seller, protections are based on US jurisdiction and skew towards well-priced quality.

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Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Re:Deal Extreme by sethstorm · 2012-09-12 01:34 · Score: 1

They're only related in that they both sell junk.

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Re:Whatr are they buying by Miamicanes · 2012-09-12 01:45 · Score: 1

Surprisingly, the US sells a lot of high-quality raw materials and component parts to Chinese companies that build things for clients with zero tolerance for failure (like China's space program). If you want to buy a bolt with laser-etched serial number that can be traced and audited all the way back to the raw ore at the mine, you basically have one choice: buy American. European and Japanese companies have the same ability to manufacture it, but they lack the abundant natural resources of the US that enables American companies to do it for a fraction of the cost. It's a very niche market, but it's one where the US is likely to be dominant for a long time.
Absolute quality is a funny thing. It's surprisingly hard to get at *any* price, and a large part of its value comes from being able to trust that the supplier has controls in place to guarantee that quality. The only way a company in China can achieve that level of quality today is by eliminating other Chinese vendors from its supply chain so that its only variable is the quality of its own workers and factory (which, individually, can be every bit as good as the US, Europe, and Japan).
Unfortunate product name by sbcc · 2012-09-12 03:12 · Score: 1

Has to be the hottest item on AliExpress - the Ainol Fire Flame Burning Tablet.
question by shentino · 2012-09-12 03:42 · Score: 1

How many people would condemn the PRC for being IP thieves, while at the same time ranting and raving against the MAFIAA for hoarding its own IP?
Are pirates worse because they happen to be chinese?
1. Re:question by chilvence · 2012-09-12 07:04 · Score: 1
  
  Was that the subject? WAS IT?
The reason that... by sudden.zero · 2012-09-12 04:40 · Score: 2

...they will probably meet this goal is, because they sell knock-off junk where Amazon and eBay for the most part sell authentic goods. For example look at this knock off Samsung Note II http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/631593035/5inch_android_4_0_mtk6575_wifi.html that they are selling for roughly a third the price as the real thing. If you look at the box it comes in at the bottom of the ad it even says Note II inside a mock Samsung logo.
1. Re:The reason that... by ThatsMyNick · 2012-09-12 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  Are you saying that knock offs have a bigger market than original ones? Looks like Amazon should start their own knock offs subsidiary.
Just ask the brits by SmallFurryCreature · 2012-09-13 02:10 · Score: 1

Once England was the world power. And so was Holland during its golden age. There have been a lot of former world powers who thought it would always remain that way, and then go replaced by a country that was just a bit more hungry and willing to get things done.

--

MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
There is a real story here but it was missed by SmallFurryCreature · 2012-09-13 02:27 · Score: 1

alibaba is B2B. aliexpresss is B2C. This is something that is near impossible to happen in the west. IMAGINE. Amazon selling to bookstores. Ford selling to consumers instead of dealers. It truly is a big deal. If shipping costs to my country weren't often higher then the product, it could be the true revolution webshops have failed to create. The total cutout of the middel man. Buy online and save a fortune because you no longer need to pay to anyone but the manufacturer.
In China, they don't order from a reseller, they order from the buyer. And they buy a lot. Scoff all you want, the future is now and it is not in the west.

--

MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
You can avail their Escrow services by NewYork · 2012-09-13 19:21 · Score: 1

http://news.alibaba.com/article/detail/help/100454412-1-alipay-escrow-services-agreement.html

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