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House Approves Extending the Warrantless Wiretapping Act
wiedzmin writes "The U.S. House of Representatives voted 301-118 today, in favor of extending the FISA Amendments Act until December 31st, 2017, effectively reauthorizing the broad electronic eavesdropping powers that largely legalized the George W. Bush administration's warrantless wiretapping program."
"that largely legalized the George W. Bush administration's warrantless wiretapping program"
Sorry for the tangent, but I have a question. Does the constitutional prohibition of ex post facto laws prevent the legalization of illegal activity as a means to annul the culpability of preexisting perpetrators? In other words, should the people involved in warrantless wiretapping before our hideously evil overlords legalized this rape of our rights be culpable for their crimes?
Also, someone do us the favor of linking to a list of the despicable scum in the House who voted in favor of further rape today.
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
and still managing to blame Bush. Wow.
www.chihuahuarescue.com- Help to end dog abuse, abandonment and cruelty
And the progressives, not to mention the rest of the dems just rolled over. Evil Bush! Evil Evil! We believe in civil liberties. Ha. What a joke. All you believe in is that your guy is in the white house. Not only has Obama and Dems (don't forget the house was Nancy's) failed to roll back anything of Bush/Cheney, they expanded the powers. And we won't even go down that war on drugs road....
Pathetic.
Constitutional republic?
I don't think you are any better off than me in the UK or anyone else in this part of the world.. Your 1776 revolutionaries must be turning in their graves...
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
Personally, I'm glad for this extension. There are still evildoers, particularly Islamic terrorists that are bent on harming America. Just wittness the latest attack in Libya.
Wait, how would warrantless wiretaps have prevented THAT? You planning to tap phones in Libya?
And don't we have warrantless wiretaps today and yet we still have THAT?
And if there is a risk that can be averted with a wiretap, why not get a warrant?
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
My freedom is worth nothing if I am dead.
But everyone's freedom is worth more than a few casualties (assuming that this security theater is even effective, and it isn't). You do not get to punish everyone or take away everyone's freedom just because you're a miserable coward.
Have your lovely totalitarian government, but move elsewhere. I love how you imbeciles think that the government is made up of perfect beings, but in reality, they're just as susceptible to corrupting or mistakes as anyone else, and they can be just as bad as the people they claim to want to protect you from. But you're an idiot, so of course you'll give away all of everyone's freedoms so you can feel safe from a nearly nonexistence threat; pathetic.
That would be my serious response if the OP wasn't a complete troll. No one on Slashdot believes that illogical garbage. I hope...
Apparently nobody else's freedom is worth anything to you alive.
Do enjoy your essential security. Others will see to you having neither in the end, rest assured.
\r
My freedom is worth nothing if I am dead.
Your life is worth nothing if you are not free.
If you are not free, you are merely a commodity. A resource to be used in the furtherance of your controller's desires.
Controversial legislation will attempt to lull some opponents by having a "Sunset" provision where the law will expire or require some sort of a reauthorization. The thought is "Okay we need it for right now but it is far too terrible to make permanent." When that time comes they always pass or are made permanent. Proponents argue "We've already spent all this money to implement it, no sense in squandering it now", "It is just so useful and important it is absurd to abandon it", or "Termination of the program would cause the layoffs of thousands of government & contract workers (in my jurisdiction)." PATRIOT Act did this too. Not to mention taxes and tolls as well. Government just cannot resist getting bigger. And yes, as others have pointed out, it doesn't matter which political party is in power when they pass. As soon as another party takes over for a term they really start to love these new powers and suddenly their criticism vanishes along with their promises to repeal.
Yup. This has absolutely kept us perfectly safe. All of our consulates are safe, we've never had any terrorist attacks, and there have never been any breaches of government security. This is clearly working so well.
By the way, you're a selfish bastard if all you care about is "My freedom".
He's going to sign it...but he didn't mean to.
He's going to fight for our civil rights next year. He promises. Honest.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Personally, I'm glad for this extension. There are still evildoers, particularly Islamic terrorists that are bent on harming America. Just wittness the latest attack in Libya.
I can't tell if you are being serious or not here (modded Funny + Interesting + Troll). Go figure
But might I note that any power that is needed while there "are still evildoers" will be available infinitely and with no checks, because we are not scheduled to reach nirvana and absolute enlightenment any time soon.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2012/roll569.xml
It seems to me we need to work to get the third party doctrine changed. It has no relevancy in anyones lives in the 21st century.
If successfull the governement will begin to loose court cases on constitutional grounds and be forced to stop.
Read it and weep:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and
no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the
persons or things to be seized."
Under the votes tab: Roll no. 569.. Might not be there long
They have nothing to fear from this. They see it as a plus, and most of the voters do, too.
I really like America and I really hate to say this ---
America is no longer the land of the free
It has become the land of the free to be wiretapped, without warrant, without due process, without any valid reason
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Bin Laden is dead, as are many of the top Al Queda leaders, the network has been dismantled, and spuriously we're safer from attack. But considering the freedoms and rights to privacy that we've sacrificed in the process, I'd choose to live my life in pre-9/11 vulnerability, than a reality where everything I say and do is being recorded and monitored. I feel like "terrorism" has still won.
Anyone who votes for a statute that violates the fourth amendment is failing to uphold their oath of office.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
which countries, on this planet, are not currently being tapped by their governments?
don't parrot back to me what you think *should* be. we're probably in agreement on what *should* be. but answer me, what current gov, that has any core routers of its own, is *not* tapping and scanning and capturing and thresholding and triggering (all in hardware, these days)?
anyone who can buy or get their hands on top-end router and switch gear can install it and tap all they like. its not too expensive (for govs) and its very tempting to any human being with that much power.
the odds are very low that people will resist the temptation to spy. it seems to be in our nature and it surely seems to be in the nature of those that aspire to country and state leadership roles.
so go ahead, name me a country that is wired (has some internet ability for its citizens), or is even voice-connected, and is not checking on its population using tech means?
deal with the fact that this is a human problem, not a US or UK or aussie or whatever problem.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Gen. Michael Hayden refused to answer question about spying on political enemies at National Press Club. At a public appearance, Bush's pointman in the Office of National Intelligence was asked if the NSA was wiretapping Bush's political enemies. When Hayden dodged the question, the questioner repeated, "No, I asked, are you targeting us and people who politically oppose the Bush government, the Bush administration? Not a fishing net, but are you targeting specifically political opponents of the Bush administration?" Hayden looked at the questioner, and after a silence called on a different questioner. (Hayden National Press Club remarks, 1/23/06)
---
Landay: "...the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution specifies that you must have probable cause to violate an American's right against unreasonable searches and seizures..."
Gen. Hayden: "No, actually - the Fourth Amendment actually protects all of us against unreasonable search and seizure."
Landay: "But the --"
Gen. Hayden: "That's what it says."
Landay: "The legal measure is probable cause, it says."
Gen. Hayden: "The Amendment says: unreasonable search and seizure."
Landay: "But does it not say 'probable cause'?"
Gen. Hayden [exasperated, scowling]: "No! The Amendment says unreasonable search and seizure."
Landay: "The legal standard is probable cause, General -- "
Gen. Hayden [indignant]: "Just to be very clear ... mmkay... and believe me, if there's any Amendment to the Constitution that employees of the National Security Agency are familiar with, it's the Fourth. Alright? And it is a reasonableness standard in the Fourth Amendment. The constitutional standard is 'reasonable'" ( h/t Dale)
-- Knight-Ridder's Jonathan Landay questioned Gen. Michael Hayden at the National Press Club in January.
----
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
" Statutes authorizing unreasonable searches were the core concern of the framers of the 4th Amendment."
"It is a measure of the framers' fear that a passing majority might find it expedient to compromise 4th Amendment values that these values were embodied in the Constitution itself."
--- Justice Sandra Day O'Conner, the first woman on the Supreme Court of the United States of America. 1981-2005 (resigned)
*"Cogito Ergo Liberalis"*
Please watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc
Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, Never drive a car when you're dead
which countries, on this planet, are not currently being tapped by their governments?
Nice try, buckwheat, but you ain't fooling nobody.
I am not talking about other countries. I am talking about the United States of America - The Land Of The Free
Where "Liberty to All" is thing that supposed to differentiate the United States of America from the rest
This is also the country where "Give Me Freedom Or Give Me Death" has been taught in history lessons, to all students
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
What a warm, kind, and endearing person you are. I'm so very sorry that I live far, far away from your town of Hancock, Michigan. It must be a great place, with you living there.
But like other Americans, I'll defend your right to free speech vehemently, until it becomes sedition itself. Then you're on your own.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Freedom isn't a binary quantity the way life/death is. Only an idiot would trade his life for the freedom to, say, drive drunk.
I'm not in favor of warrantless wiretapping, but you fatalistic woe-is-me drama queens irk me. Life in the US is fucking GREAT. Not perfect, no place is, but if you think things are so terrible, you have absolutely no idea what the rest of the world is like.
We have a tremendous amount of freedom. I can call ruling politicians a bunch of fucking morons, and not be killed for it. I can dance and drink and have sex out of wedlock, and not be killed for it. I can draw pictures of Mohammed and call priests pedos, and not be killed for it. There are a lot of places where you can't do any of that.
In fact, right here in the good ole US of A, it was common for people to get killed if they offended the wrong religion, or had sex with the wrong gender, or were born with the wrong skin color. That was back in the Glory Days that never were. The Glory Days you saw in old movies and sit-coms and convinced yourself were your birthright.
So yeah, push for politicians to not tap our phones, but drop the extremism. It just reveals you to be an angry kid, rather than an informed adult.
The rest of the world doesn't matter, and it's idiotic to think that in any way justifies this. I don't care if the rest of the world makes it mandatory to be punched in the face 3 hours a day, that doesn't make warrantless wiretaps okay. The same goes for the US in the past. Society doesn't progress by being complacent with injustice. Even when we grow by leap and bounds, we should not be satisfied, but instead, keep striving forward, eternally vigilant.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I think it's funny how so many columnists and "experts" have basically said this Congress won't do anything until after the election, and yet one of the few things they DID decide to do (the House at least) was extend the ability of the government to spy on American citizens.
Sometimes I just don't know what's worse, when Republicans and Democrats disagree leading to gridlock, or...when they agree. Hard to say really.
which countries, on this planet, are not currently being tapped by their governments?
How is your question remotely relevant? You appare to be making the same kind of argument that Newt Gingrich did when he said we shouldn't permit the building of the "911 mosque" until Saudia Arabia permits christian churchs in their country.
In other words, you are saying that we should be judged in comparison to the worst countries out there rather than how well we live up to our own expectations for ourselves.
the odds are very low that people will resist the temptation to spy. it seems to be in our nature and it surely seems to be in the nature of those that aspire to country and state leadership roles.
That does not mean we should accept it. The people to which we entrust the reigns of power must be held to the highest possible standard. Abuse under the cloak of authority has been with us since the first human civilization -- the great thing about modern civilizations is that we have laws to punish that abuse. Now is not the time to go roll back modern life to a pre-magna carta standing..
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
If what you're saying is true, then what needs to be changed is the cops, not the wiretap laws.
Both, actually. Warrantless wiretaps are the grease on the slippery slope.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Life in the US is fucking GREAT. Not perfect, no place is, but if you think things are so terrible, you have absolutely no idea what the rest of the world is like.
Have you ever actually lived outside of the US? I have noticed that most people who say such things have not. I've traveled to many countries and the only country I found to be worse than the US is Cuba, where owning a computer was against the law and the average salary was around $15/month. Hell. Even Canada is better. After living abroad you also may start to realize how much more free you feel outside of this rat's cage of a country.
If you want to cherry pick a few awful countries in the middle east you might find somewhere worse, but as someone who actually has left the US and lived in several other countries for long periods I can tell you that the US actually sucks pretty bad in the scheme of things.
The US is really only good for two things: making money and buying either computer parts or really weird esoteric tech stuff. Go spend a year outside of your little nest of familiarity and see how wrong you really are. The US is a country of immigrants who usually came here out of greed because they hoped to make giant piles of gold and lounge in bean bag sized piles of diamonds and our culture, what little there is of it, is based on that. A country of merchants.
If all you care about in life is getting rich then the US is probably in the top 10 countries, but if you judge your life by more than the size of your bank account and you are actually interested in being happy the US is close to the bottom and only benefits from comparisons to a few Middle Eastern and African countries. Proud Americans like yourself like to boast about all the (always poor) immigrants who want to come here and then ignore the fact that as soon as they make some real money they can't get out of here fast enough. Of those who stay it is nearly always for financial reasons. They'd be just as happy to live in East Germany if they thought it would increase their income by a few dollars.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
The blatant erosion of our civil liberties over the past 20 years is exactly why I will not trust the government with ANY new powers. These people, regardless of party, have gutted the Bill of Rights.
-Patriot Act and extensions
-Warrantless Wiretapping and ex-post-facto legalization thereof
-Indefinite detention of US Citizens
-Military Commissions Act
-FISA Extensions
-Assassination of US Citizens
-NDAA
I accept some of the climate change science, but there is no way in hell I am going to support granting the federal government more power to regulate energy consumption. I won't support any new taxation to give these criminals more wealth to waste, or support any efforts for them to seize power to control PAC money or campaign financing.
The federal government and its minions have declared themselves enemies of the citizens of the United States. I want to see them stripped of power and starved of wealth.
P.S.
Any federal government employee reading this is invited to go **** themselves.