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House Approves Extending the Warrantless Wiretapping Act
wiedzmin writes "The U.S. House of Representatives voted 301-118 today, in favor of extending the FISA Amendments Act until December 31st, 2017, effectively reauthorizing the broad electronic eavesdropping powers that largely legalized the George W. Bush administration's warrantless wiretapping program."
"that largely legalized the George W. Bush administration's warrantless wiretapping program"
Sorry for the tangent, but I have a question. Does the constitutional prohibition of ex post facto laws prevent the legalization of illegal activity as a means to annul the culpability of preexisting perpetrators? In other words, should the people involved in warrantless wiretapping before our hideously evil overlords legalized this rape of our rights be culpable for their crimes?
Also, someone do us the favor of linking to a list of the despicable scum in the House who voted in favor of further rape today.
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
and still managing to blame Bush. Wow.
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We need a workers party that fights for a workers government! Down with the "war on terror" racist police state! Mobilize the power of the international working class to defeat U.S. imperialist war & drive the U.S. out of Afghanistan, Iraq & everywhere! For international socialist revolution to smash imperialist barbarism before it's too late!
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As the resouce cruch comes ever closer, the rich in this country need the monopolization of force, to keep them sheltered from the huddled masses, the ones that our lady liberty sought to provide refuge for.
And the progressives, not to mention the rest of the dems just rolled over. Evil Bush! Evil Evil! We believe in civil liberties. Ha. What a joke. All you believe in is that your guy is in the white house. Not only has Obama and Dems (don't forget the house was Nancy's) failed to roll back anything of Bush/Cheney, they expanded the powers. And we won't even go down that war on drugs road....
Pathetic.
The govt, by virtue of its actions, it promoting sedition.
rewriting history since 2109
Constitutional republic?
I don't think you are any better off than me in the UK or anyone else in this part of the world.. Your 1776 revolutionaries must be turning in their graves...
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
Personally, I'm glad for this extension. There are still evildoers, particularly Islamic terrorists that are bent on harming America. Just wittness the latest attack in Libya.
Wait, how would warrantless wiretaps have prevented THAT? You planning to tap phones in Libya?
And don't we have warrantless wiretaps today and yet we still have THAT?
And if there is a risk that can be averted with a wiretap, why not get a warrant?
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
My freedom is worth nothing if I am dead.
But everyone's freedom is worth more than a few casualties (assuming that this security theater is even effective, and it isn't). You do not get to punish everyone or take away everyone's freedom just because you're a miserable coward.
Have your lovely totalitarian government, but move elsewhere. I love how you imbeciles think that the government is made up of perfect beings, but in reality, they're just as susceptible to corrupting or mistakes as anyone else, and they can be just as bad as the people they claim to want to protect you from. But you're an idiot, so of course you'll give away all of everyone's freedoms so you can feel safe from a nearly nonexistence threat; pathetic.
That would be my serious response if the OP wasn't a complete troll. No one on Slashdot believes that illogical garbage. I hope...
Apparently nobody else's freedom is worth anything to you alive.
Do enjoy your essential security. Others will see to you having neither in the end, rest assured.
\r
Freedoms are also not worth anything if they are stolen away..
My freedom is worth nothing if I am dead.
Your life is worth nothing if you are not free.
If you are not free, you are merely a commodity. A resource to be used in the furtherance of your controller's desires.
Controversial legislation will attempt to lull some opponents by having a "Sunset" provision where the law will expire or require some sort of a reauthorization. The thought is "Okay we need it for right now but it is far too terrible to make permanent." When that time comes they always pass or are made permanent. Proponents argue "We've already spent all this money to implement it, no sense in squandering it now", "It is just so useful and important it is absurd to abandon it", or "Termination of the program would cause the layoffs of thousands of government & contract workers (in my jurisdiction)." PATRIOT Act did this too. Not to mention taxes and tolls as well. Government just cannot resist getting bigger. And yes, as others have pointed out, it doesn't matter which political party is in power when they pass. As soon as another party takes over for a term they really start to love these new powers and suddenly their criticism vanishes along with their promises to repeal.
Only one correct answer. Seig Heil !
At first glance I read "House Approves Extended Warranty Wiretapping Act". In all seriousness the house really should approve this one!
SIGNAL TO NOISE! Diminishing... oh so tiny.... oh look, where did the signals go?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Yup. This has absolutely kept us perfectly safe. All of our consulates are safe, we've never had any terrorist attacks, and there have never been any breaches of government security. This is clearly working so well.
By the way, you're a selfish bastard if all you care about is "My freedom".
He's going to sign it...but he didn't mean to.
He's going to fight for our civil rights next year. He promises. Honest.
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
Personally, I'm glad for this extension. There are still evildoers, particularly Islamic terrorists that are bent on harming America. Just wittness the latest attack in Libya.
I can't tell if you are being serious or not here (modded Funny + Interesting + Troll). Go figure
But might I note that any power that is needed while there "are still evildoers" will be available infinitely and with no checks, because we are not scheduled to reach nirvana and absolute enlightenment any time soon.
Your life is worth nothing, and you are not free.
But, life is short... Enjoy every minute of it.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
That was a terrible troll. Or maybe it was awesome satire. Hard to tell on the internet.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2012/roll569.xml
It seems to me we need to work to get the third party doctrine changed. It has no relevancy in anyones lives in the 21st century.
If successfull the governement will begin to loose court cases on constitutional grounds and be forced to stop.
Read it and weep:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and
no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the
persons or things to be seized."
Fallacious appeals do not justify taking my freedoms (and the privacy they depend on) away.. Why would you burn the village in order to save it? An america that's run like a typical european state is not an america that has been saved.. If those islamic terrorists are that much of a threat, it's time to quit appeasing the governments (like syria for ex) that passive aggressively back them and declare war on them instead.
My freedom is worth nothing if I am dead.
Wow, glad the men and women of the American Revolutionary didn't think that way. For that matter anyone that has fought for a peoples freedom against oppression.
How sad that you feel that life and freedom are not possible at the same time.
I, too, heard the voices of Patrick Henry, Thomas Paine and Benjamin Franklin when I read that.
How we have fallen. A lecherous old womanizer and his friends risked torture and death all so that they could bequeath a nation to spineless cowards who run around chanting "USA! USA! USA!" and then beg the government to take all their freedom so that the big mean terrorists won't eat them.
Under the votes tab: Roll no. 569.. Might not be there long
They have nothing to fear from this. They see it as a plus, and most of the voters do, too.
I really like America and I really hate to say this ---
America is no longer the land of the free
It has become the land of the free to be wiretapped, without warrant, without due process, without any valid reason
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Personally, I'm glad for this extension. There are still evildoers, particularly Islamic terrorists that are bent on harming America. Just wittness the latest attack in Libya.
Wait, how would warrantless wiretaps have prevented THAT? You planning to tap phones in Libya? And don't we have warrantless wiretaps today and yet we still have THAT?
And if there is a risk that can be averted with a wiretap, why not get a warrant?
Warrants take effort to get, and a modicrum of evidence. Cops, particularly the Federal type, are inherently lazy. If a warrantless wiretap will get them the evidence they need to get the evidence they need, so much the better.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Bin Laden is dead, as are many of the top Al Queda leaders, the network has been dismantled, and spuriously we're safer from attack. But considering the freedoms and rights to privacy that we've sacrificed in the process, I'd choose to live my life in pre-9/11 vulnerability, than a reality where everything I say and do is being recorded and monitored. I feel like "terrorism" has still won.
Anyone who votes for a statute that violates the fourth amendment is failing to uphold their oath of office.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
which countries, on this planet, are not currently being tapped by their governments?
don't parrot back to me what you think *should* be. we're probably in agreement on what *should* be. but answer me, what current gov, that has any core routers of its own, is *not* tapping and scanning and capturing and thresholding and triggering (all in hardware, these days)?
anyone who can buy or get their hands on top-end router and switch gear can install it and tap all they like. its not too expensive (for govs) and its very tempting to any human being with that much power.
the odds are very low that people will resist the temptation to spy. it seems to be in our nature and it surely seems to be in the nature of those that aspire to country and state leadership roles.
so go ahead, name me a country that is wired (has some internet ability for its citizens), or is even voice-connected, and is not checking on its population using tech means?
deal with the fact that this is a human problem, not a US or UK or aussie or whatever problem.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Gen. Michael Hayden refused to answer question about spying on political enemies at National Press Club. At a public appearance, Bush's pointman in the Office of National Intelligence was asked if the NSA was wiretapping Bush's political enemies. When Hayden dodged the question, the questioner repeated, "No, I asked, are you targeting us and people who politically oppose the Bush government, the Bush administration? Not a fishing net, but are you targeting specifically political opponents of the Bush administration?" Hayden looked at the questioner, and after a silence called on a different questioner. (Hayden National Press Club remarks, 1/23/06)
---
Landay: "...the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution specifies that you must have probable cause to violate an American's right against unreasonable searches and seizures..."
Gen. Hayden: "No, actually - the Fourth Amendment actually protects all of us against unreasonable search and seizure."
Landay: "But the --"
Gen. Hayden: "That's what it says."
Landay: "The legal measure is probable cause, it says."
Gen. Hayden: "The Amendment says: unreasonable search and seizure."
Landay: "But does it not say 'probable cause'?"
Gen. Hayden [exasperated, scowling]: "No! The Amendment says unreasonable search and seizure."
Landay: "The legal standard is probable cause, General -- "
Gen. Hayden [indignant]: "Just to be very clear ... mmkay... and believe me, if there's any Amendment to the Constitution that employees of the National Security Agency are familiar with, it's the Fourth. Alright? And it is a reasonableness standard in the Fourth Amendment. The constitutional standard is 'reasonable'" ( h/t Dale)
-- Knight-Ridder's Jonathan Landay questioned Gen. Michael Hayden at the National Press Club in January.
----
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
" Statutes authorizing unreasonable searches were the core concern of the framers of the 4th Amendment."
"It is a measure of the framers' fear that a passing majority might find it expedient to compromise 4th Amendment values that these values were embodied in the Constitution itself."
--- Justice Sandra Day O'Conner, the first woman on the Supreme Court of the United States of America. 1981-2005 (resigned)
*"Cogito Ergo Liberalis"*
Please watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc
Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, Never drive a car when you're dead
which countries, on this planet, are not currently being tapped by their governments?
Nice try, buckwheat, but you ain't fooling nobody.
I am not talking about other countries. I am talking about the United States of America - The Land Of The Free
Where "Liberty to All" is thing that supposed to differentiate the United States of America from the rest
This is also the country where "Give Me Freedom Or Give Me Death" has been taught in history lessons, to all students
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
You really want to know who set this up?
Find out who scheduled the vote for the same day as the release of the iPhone 5. I think the vote was probably on the docket for awhile. If so...
To whomever made sure these events coincided: Couldn't have been planned better. Well played.
"The answer to all your questions is: Money"
---- The real Slashdot is still here. You just have to browse at -1 to read the comments.
Considering the possibility that this is found unconstitutional in October, is there any process that could be invoked to initiate a full, independent investigation of this program, especially the secret bits? Something along the lines of responding to "it's for national security" with "we don't believe you, we're going to check everything you've done so far".
I know, crazy question.
I'd bet that all members of the House are being bugged also, have been and always will be.
If what you're saying is true, then what needs to be changed is the cops, not the wiretap laws.
What a warm, kind, and endearing person you are. I'm so very sorry that I live far, far away from your town of Hancock, Michigan. It must be a great place, with you living there.
But like other Americans, I'll defend your right to free speech vehemently, until it becomes sedition itself. Then you're on your own.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
I recommend investigating snooping, denunciation and stigmatizing of citizens in the 3rd Reich, Stalinism, the German Democratic Republic and others. (Of course, there are contemporary examples, like North Korea and China, but the historic ones are well documented put thing into perspective.) Snooping on citizens without strong legal safeguards is a very dark thing indeed and fundamentally incompatible with a free society.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
One time in recent memory I can think of is the Assault Weapons Ban. It banned features of guns largely based on how they looked. It was given a sunset, and it was not renewed so not guns with those features are again legal to purchase new.
Now I'm not saying that sunset laws are a good idea or you should truest them to make things go away, just that sometimes they do actually sunset, if very rarely.
They are really likely only useful for things that are fairly contentious, like the AWB. The thing is with a normal law, you have to convince someone to sponsor repealing it, get it out of committee, and then get a majority vote. With a sunset law, all that has to happen is for that to not happen. So if something was narrow to pass, then it may not make it the next time.
Thing is this bullshit was near unanimous the first time so this is no surprise.
Freedom isn't a binary quantity the way life/death is. Only an idiot would trade his life for the freedom to, say, drive drunk.
I'm not in favor of warrantless wiretapping, but you fatalistic woe-is-me drama queens irk me. Life in the US is fucking GREAT. Not perfect, no place is, but if you think things are so terrible, you have absolutely no idea what the rest of the world is like.
We have a tremendous amount of freedom. I can call ruling politicians a bunch of fucking morons, and not be killed for it. I can dance and drink and have sex out of wedlock, and not be killed for it. I can draw pictures of Mohammed and call priests pedos, and not be killed for it. There are a lot of places where you can't do any of that.
In fact, right here in the good ole US of A, it was common for people to get killed if they offended the wrong religion, or had sex with the wrong gender, or were born with the wrong skin color. That was back in the Glory Days that never were. The Glory Days you saw in old movies and sit-coms and convinced yourself were your birthright.
So yeah, push for politicians to not tap our phones, but drop the extremism. It just reveals you to be an angry kid, rather than an informed adult.
When you say "House" you mean "US Congress," right? Not "fictional tv doctor."
Cool story bro
The rest of the world doesn't matter, and it's idiotic to think that in any way justifies this. I don't care if the rest of the world makes it mandatory to be punched in the face 3 hours a day, that doesn't make warrantless wiretaps okay. The same goes for the US in the past. Society doesn't progress by being complacent with injustice. Even when we grow by leap and bounds, we should not be satisfied, but instead, keep striving forward, eternally vigilant.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Anyone who uses the term "dastardly plots" is not being serious. As for, "I'm all for giving the government all the powers they need to keep me and my family safe", that's satire. I think, however, that an attempt made by the poster to be funny has inadvertently turned into an effective troll. This reminds me of my wife telling me her coworkers said they liked John Stewart but didn't care for Stephen Colbert because "he's too conservative."
voted today, in favor of extending the FISA Amendments Act
What government, once having acquired a type of power over its citizens, ever relinquishes it without a fight? Income tax, The Patriot Act, and on and on and on - it's all about concentration and maintenance of power, and has been for millenia. Nothing to see here, move along.
However, it may be important to keep in mind that this is a hallmark of human societal hierarchies. Then we can set aside our righteous moral indignation and keep our eyes on the prize, which is the construction of a functioning, fair, free, inclusive society that endures in spite of our natural tendencies to destroy it. We've been close on several occasions, but it keeps slipping away from us because we become complacent. What was that about bread and circuses?
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Spot on. Wish i had mod points just for your post.
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
I think it's funny how so many columnists and "experts" have basically said this Congress won't do anything until after the election, and yet one of the few things they DID decide to do (the House at least) was extend the ability of the government to spy on American citizens.
Sometimes I just don't know what's worse, when Republicans and Democrats disagree leading to gridlock, or...when they agree. Hard to say really.
which countries, on this planet, are not currently being tapped by their governments?
How is your question remotely relevant? You appare to be making the same kind of argument that Newt Gingrich did when he said we shouldn't permit the building of the "911 mosque" until Saudia Arabia permits christian churchs in their country.
In other words, you are saying that we should be judged in comparison to the worst countries out there rather than how well we live up to our own expectations for ourselves.
the odds are very low that people will resist the temptation to spy. it seems to be in our nature and it surely seems to be in the nature of those that aspire to country and state leadership roles.
That does not mean we should accept it. The people to which we entrust the reigns of power must be held to the highest possible standard. Abuse under the cloak of authority has been with us since the first human civilization -- the great thing about modern civilizations is that we have laws to punish that abuse. Now is not the time to go roll back modern life to a pre-magna carta standing..
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
If what you're saying is true, then what needs to be changed is the cops, not the wiretap laws.
Both, actually. Warrantless wiretaps are the grease on the slippery slope.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Well said. (Sorry I used all my mod points in another thread...) :-)
:) I weep for our Republic and all the morons who are riding shotgun in this hand-basket we find ourselves in.
The key here, and you imply it I think, is that we have entrusted these assclowns with power WE granted them, and they CONTINUE to ignore us. They expand the federal government to vastly unconstitutional levels (has been since the New Deal, unfortunately), and they ignore fundamental liberties by claiming "national security" (liberties are not "granted" by the Constitution or the government (Pelosi, I'm looking at you) like some of the asshats have alluded... we HAVE those rights by being born, but that's another story).
They insist that they're "fans of freedom" as they pick our pockets, bankrupt our country, and generally piss all over the People. Yet, idiots still vote for them. I've not voted for a major party candidate in 15 years or more. I just can't take it. Sure, that makes my voting sheet a little sparse in some elections (particularly local), but I just can't in good conscience use my vote to further the erosion of MY liberty.
On a similar note, France is steamrolling some interesting tax "reform" into law, and it appears that this "reform" has become the blueprint most people who don't even pay any income taxes to rally around so the "rich can pay their fair share." Remember kids, you can't EVER let a politician who has the power to tax you to define the word "fair."
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
America is no longer the land of the free
It has become the land of the free to be wiretapped, without warrant, without due process, without any valid reason
Somewhat yes, but mostly no.
There are still very high barriers to using warrantless-wiretap as legal evidence to support a charge. Just having a recording doesn't automatically mean you'll get to use it in Court, by far, warrantless or otherwise.
In addition, you should take some satisfaction in realizing that those who voted for this extension are themselves not exempt from it, AND they are mostly former lawyers who, because they are now politicians, probably have lots of skeletons in their closet that they would prefer stayed there. That the measure would pass therefore suggests that it's of little consequence in the big legal picture. Which is true.
But it makes great political hay in front of the right audience.
b.g.
Life in the US is fucking GREAT. Not perfect, no place is, but if you think things are so terrible, you have absolutely no idea what the rest of the world is like.
Have you ever actually lived outside of the US? I have noticed that most people who say such things have not. I've traveled to many countries and the only country I found to be worse than the US is Cuba, where owning a computer was against the law and the average salary was around $15/month. Hell. Even Canada is better. After living abroad you also may start to realize how much more free you feel outside of this rat's cage of a country.
If you want to cherry pick a few awful countries in the middle east you might find somewhere worse, but as someone who actually has left the US and lived in several other countries for long periods I can tell you that the US actually sucks pretty bad in the scheme of things.
The US is really only good for two things: making money and buying either computer parts or really weird esoteric tech stuff. Go spend a year outside of your little nest of familiarity and see how wrong you really are. The US is a country of immigrants who usually came here out of greed because they hoped to make giant piles of gold and lounge in bean bag sized piles of diamonds and our culture, what little there is of it, is based on that. A country of merchants.
If all you care about in life is getting rich then the US is probably in the top 10 countries, but if you judge your life by more than the size of your bank account and you are actually interested in being happy the US is close to the bottom and only benefits from comparisons to a few Middle Eastern and African countries. Proud Americans like yourself like to boast about all the (always poor) immigrants who want to come here and then ignore the fact that as soon as they make some real money they can't get out of here fast enough. Of those who stay it is nearly always for financial reasons. They'd be just as happy to live in East Germany if they thought it would increase their income by a few dollars.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
It just reveals you to be an angry kid, rather than an informed adult.
In this case, "an informed adult" seems to mean "someone who reacts differently to a certain situation than me." Some people just take freedom seriously, and given the countless evil governments throughout history and the countless evil governments that exist now, can you really blame them? It's a giant slippery slope that we could slide down at any time, and the only solution is to be, as the other guy put it, "eternally vigilant."
Barak Hussein Obama II ordered the murder of the US Embassy staffers, members of the Unelected Government of the United States of America in Libya.
The calculation for justifying the murders was to get the U.S.A. House of Representatives to reauthorize the unlawful warrent-less wire-tape 'law' of George Walker Bush.
That was as success on both fronts.
i tried to post the list, but /. diligent post filters stopped me. please pardon the pastebin
http://pastebin.com/ZUg8eKYd
You're holding the country up to a standard that literally no civilization in all of human history has met, and howling about how awful things are when we don't meet that standard.
We have a robot exploring Mars as we speak, something that would have been unimaginable not too long ago, and still is unimaginable for most countries. Are you gonna scream and cry that we don't have a space elevator yet?
Get some perspective. You can push things forward without shouting bald-faced lies about how we're all slaves. When you tell such lies, all you do is drive away the reasonable people whose votes you need.
Not perfect, no place is, but if you think things are so terrible, you have absolutely no idea what the rest of the world is like.
You overestimate how good the US is in comparison to (that homogeneous place called) "the rest of the world". Meanwhile, no one in my country has every heard of "Free Speech Zones" and almost every single person openly criticizes the government without fear of having a SWAT team come down on them, without getting their phones legally tapped and without being called "unpatriotic". YMMV.
We have a tremendous amount of freedom. I can call ruling politicians a bunch of fucking morons, and not be killed for it. I can dance and drink and have sex out of wedlock, and not be killed for it. I can draw pictures of Mohammed and call priests pedos, and not be killed for it. There are a lot of places where you can't do any of that.
I can do all of those things in my country too, without being killed and without fear of getting arrested. Also, I can openly smoke weed on the streets or in a park, if I feel like it. Can you say the same? No? Aw. Land of the Free and Home of the Brave, was it?
Here, read this phrase and see if it still applies to the US: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
I repeat: you overestimate how much "free" the US is in relation to other countries. You should get out more often.
Your whole logic boils down to "But... but... we're still free! Look at all those countries that are worse than us!". As if whatever people are doing in Iran or Saudi Arabia or North Korea somehow legitimizes warrantless wiretapping of US citizens in US soil by the US government. *facepalm*
Not perfect, no place is, but if you think things are so terrible, you have absolutely no idea what the rest of the world is like.
Nope. You are the one who has absolutely no idea what the rest of the world is like.
what if they are thinking they can get away with it since they sit in congress and have all these 'powers and prestige' ? is that not what most of them say when they get caught. oh i cant believe i got caught i thought i was so clever.. ??
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE UP! "No limitations, no boundaries, there is no reason for them."
Let's not forget that FISA allowed warrants to be granted *retroactively*. So before this law there was *nothing* slowing down or preventing the government from wiretapping suspected terrorists here in the US. Can someone remind me why we need this law?
Coors or Coors Light.
The blatant erosion of our civil liberties over the past 20 years is exactly why I will not trust the government with ANY new powers. These people, regardless of party, have gutted the Bill of Rights.
-Patriot Act and extensions
-Warrantless Wiretapping and ex-post-facto legalization thereof
-Indefinite detention of US Citizens
-Military Commissions Act
-FISA Extensions
-Assassination of US Citizens
-NDAA
I accept some of the climate change science, but there is no way in hell I am going to support granting the federal government more power to regulate energy consumption. I won't support any new taxation to give these criminals more wealth to waste, or support any efforts for them to seize power to control PAC money or campaign financing.
The federal government and its minions have declared themselves enemies of the citizens of the United States. I want to see them stripped of power and starved of wealth.
P.S.
Any federal government employee reading this is invited to go **** themselves.
That's just one more reason why I say vote every single MFer in that building out.
Every.
Single.
One.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
We have been steadily eroding freedom in this country for the last 70 years. People want the state to take care of them, to provide for their personal comfort, for their safety, for their retirement, for helping raise their kids, for their health and probably another 50 things I don't even know about. The state can't do that without increased powers and increased powers for them equal less freedoms for us. This is what the majority in this country has voted for over the last few decades. I don't see that changing. They will continue to erode your 4th amendment rights, the rights to your property, the rights to be secure in your home etc. In large part because it is necessary for them to do that in order to provide the level of services and protection that we the citizens have demanded from them. That doesn't mean you shouldn't continue to fight the good fight to defend your freedoms. It just means that you need to understand that right now those of use that value individual freedom are a minority and it is unlikely that this trend will change anytime soon.
You are most certainly being tapped and watched. But you are pretty much harmless and clueless. You can smell the bullshit, but you haven't figure it out. If you did figure out, you wouldn't be here shooting your mouth off about it. But they will watch you to see if you do and what you will do about it. And if you do try to do something about it, you will be a fuck up and they will not only catch you, but other idiots whom you have informed of it, who want to try something.
So do yourself a favor, forget about it. Shut up about it. Watch your sports, play your internet games, and be a good little drone.
Take the Red Pill.
So, how do you know where he is from? I found that to be kind of creepy. I don't know how to find that kind of information about a poster, did I miss something? Or is this some kind of creepy veiled threat? Again unless I missed some way to figure out where a poster is from this smacks of "We know who you are and where you are, bitch all you want, but make a move and you are toast."
Sedition really is the thing they are worried about. An "American Spring" is what they want to avoid. I think they have that aspect nailed down pretty good all things considered.
Take the Red Pill.
The poster alludes to the address in the post. There are also signs of paranoia, although I'm not a licensed medical professional. There is much hostility here; the poster has an abundance of fear, and not even a dram of warmth.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
He knows because the poster says near the very bottom of the post: "this free citizen living in Hancock, Michigan" :-)
I'll tell you that if I ever end up in prison, they'll have to put me on a suicide watch, because if I can't live free, I'd rather be dead.
LOL, I missed that at the end. I can see why, he's a bit ranty. I tend to skip over ranty stuff, probably because it reminds me of myself too much. I think the poster is like many others, they smell the bullshit in the air, but can't quite put a finger on what is going on, hence the levels of frustration.
Take the Red Pill.
Such leet hacks!! I just replied to another poster pointing this out.
The title reminded me of the X "no such agency" guy who was telling all about how they monitor everything. Our fine feathered friend has most assuredly made some "lists". But he's just another number, as we all are, and our entire lives are monitored, tracked, labeled, and studied. I'm sure algorithms are tracking us for threat potential. The tech is here, and it's what I would be doing if I was in charge and I was an evil fuck.
Here's the rub, it's a complicated, crooked, fucked up world full of assholes. Not everyone can be a 9 to 5 drone, happy in their little world of blissful ignorance. Someone has to work through all of this shit, and get dirty, sort through it and hope the world doesn't blow the fuck up in the process. Trying to keep up with this ever shifting landscape of trouble is a nightmare, especially when your own side causes a great deal of it.
Sure we create solutions that are shitty. We create weapons that will come and bite us on the ass later. But it's what we do in the moment, and hope we live to regret it. Remember, we are dealing with people, they can be intelligent and dumb as fuck at the same time. Factor that into any organization, any government, any agency, etc. Life is messy and it's a wonder its not one big shit storm of chaos. If we can keep it down to a dull roar so that we can at least enjoy our morning breakfast cereal, it's a good job.
Take the Red Pill.
But we should have universal health care because the rest of the world does!
(sarcasm)
Ah...that's it. Then I wonder why the Dems didn't do something about this during the first 2 years of the Obama administration. Oh, and Obama was going to do something about the PATRIOT Act as well. Did that ever happen? I guess you can call signing an extension of three key provisions of the act in 2011 doing something.
I prefer Obama's platform this year because he's pro-choice, supports gay marriage, and actually realizes that we have to increase revenue (along with cutting unnecessary spending) to get our national debt under control.
Still, when it comes to advancing the police state, it seems he's no better than the alternative.
I'm not in favor of warrantless wiretapping, but you fatalistic woe-is-me drama queens irk me.
I read about some people a while back. Sometime around 1776 they acted like woe-is-me drama queens bitching about freedoms and started a country. Maybe you heard of it?
I can call ruling politicians a bunch of fucking morons, and not be killed for it. I can dance and drink and have sex out of wedlock, and not be killed for it. I can draw pictures of Mohammed and call priests pedos, and not be killed for it.
Ya, I get it. You like being an anti-social prick.
So yeah, push for politicians to not tap our phones, but drop the extremism. It just reveals you to be an angry kid, rather than an informed adult.
sure it does. And you're stooping to my level by ranting against my philosophizing. bye.
This is not true. They can get a warrant from the FISA court up to 24 hours after the fact to specifically make it easier for themselves. That anyone still claims and believes it's hard to get a warrant is laughable.
While still in the Senate, Obama voted to give AT&T a free pass for enabling NSA warrantless wiretaps (there's your ex post facto), solely to insulate him against 'soft on terrerism' charges during his run for the White House.
While I'm glad he won (considering the horrific alternative), from that vote forward, I knew he didn't stand for anything but winning. Exactly like everone else.
Death to America? Patience, sir; we're taking care of that ourselves.
Just having a recording doesn't automatically mean you'll get to use it in Court
"In court" is not the endgame here, that would be "In Gitmo" (or another law-free and rights-free zone). These people (the congresscritters and their handlers) don't give a flying fuck about reducing crime, they want to make sure that a revolution can never be organized no matter how bad things get here. When hyperinflation destroys the economy and social structure they need to be ready to shut down any opposition before it can actually organize itself. A continent-wide monitoring project isn't something that can be rolled out overnight, they're in the development and testing phase here. It's going to take years to work the bugs out of a project this big.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
It is weird that you conflate abuse of authority with juvenile misdemeanors and sexual infidility.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I'm an independent who voted for Obama last time around. And if Obama can't do the right thing because people criticize him for it then he is unfit to be a president. In fact, I think that pretty much sums up what the problem with Obama is: he isn't governing or doing the right thing for the country, he is going by poll numbers and buying votes.
It's morons like you that are so destructive of the political process by lacking even a glimmer of an independent thought; and, yes, morons like you exist in large numbers both in both parties.
I am pro-choice and pro gay marriage, but I also think those issues are insignificant compared to the economy and international politics. In addition, I don't find Obama's stance on these issues particularly principled.
Obama is paying lip service to the idea, but in practice, he isn't doing it either. He wants to keep the Bush tax breaks for people making less than $250000; those tax payers represent 80% of all income tax revenue. How exactly is Obama going to get the national debt under control that way? Obama is using taxes as a political tool; I don't see a convincing plan to reduce the debt there either, and Obama's track record on the economy is lousy. I'll keep an open mind until the election, but the way it looks right now, I may just stay home.
Which countries have you been in?
I've spent at least a month in each of the following: India, China, the Philippines, Italy, Germany.
Additionally, I have good friends from Vietnam, Burma, Mexico, and Moldova. They didn't come here thinking that they'd get to "lounge in bean bag sized piles of gold" and none of them are eager to leave. I'd imagine most immigrants are similar. People who sneak across the border from Mexico want a better life, and there's more to that than money. They like the safety of a stable country. They like cops that don't demand bribes, and electricity that is on all the time. They like the quality of life, even if they're just part of the middle class.
Did you know Moldova has a breakaway region? Probably not, most people don't even know it's a place. Do you notice when a fire or flood wipes out thousands of homes in the Philippines? Did you realize that so many homes get destroyed each time because most of those homes are made of corrugated steel and cardboard? They have shanty towns bigger than the town I grew up in.
Sure, if you're just comparing to the cream of the crop (Western Europe, Canada, Japan, etc.) then the US is average or worse. But the vast majority of the world's population don't live in nice countries like those. That's not me "cherry pick[ing] a few awful countries". That's the standard of human existence. And it used to be even worse!
The 'rubberstamp' warrants? Yeah, they can invoke 'national security' and take their time going in front of a secret judge (72 hrs, I believe is the time allowed) to get the warrant, but they still have to get the warrant. And in the history of the FISA courts, something like less than 30 warrants were denied, most of them for improperly filling out the warrant request IIRC. The 'officers' in question redid their paperwork and got their warrants.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Believe me bro, I know exactly what's going on. I got my eyes and ears WIDE open. The reason I made the post is simple. I'm building a case....just in case.
Hi FBI! Nice to see you have nothing better to do. Go fuck yourselves.
Oh yeah, and .... have a nice day. ;)
Thanks bro I enjoyed your commentary. See, here's the thing with messiness. I can tell you all about it, because I was there and saw it everywhere. I saw the Humvee with the back end blown off by an IED, and the soldier in the back who was shoved forward with such force it destroyed his knees and legs. I showed up just a couple weeks after the insurgents nearly overran the compound, taking shelter in a nearby farmhouse and putting a bullet through the back of the platoon leader's head, who continued to lead his men lying on his back with a map over his face and radio held up to his ear by others while the doctor kept him from bleeding to death. I came to fix their satellite system, and before I left I'd helped and aided and succeeded and jumped for joy right along with them when when we blew up a truck that looked suspicious. We thought it was carrying a mortar crew, but really, our thinking was shoddy and adrenaline fueled and just plain wrong. It was just a truck with some farmers in it.
This was in summer '07, around mid-late September, which I remember because I spent my birthday at this little shithole FOB called "Baylough." It was on a hill overlooking a depression, arid scrubland with mountains all around. We'd just crammed ourselves onto the little picnic table in the "chow hall" (more like a dirty closet) and started eating when the first mortar round of the day exploded just outside the inner compound wall, maybe 30 yards away. We all stared at each other for a split second then jumped up and ran out to our positions. There was a small bunker just outside the inner wall the contractors usually ran to, but this day for some reason I decided to run up on the wall with the soldiers. I'm glad I did because shortly after I got in position up there, another mortar round came in not far from where I would have been standing, throwing rocks all over a couple of the other guys who had sat down along the wall and putting a hole in the water tank nearby. This was somewhat surprising because most days the incoming mortar fire was wildly inaccurate; they really had us dialed in that day.
(The insurgents' typical procedure was to fire off a few rounds, then pack up their gear and go. According to what I gathered from the guys on the FOB, they had installed a new radar system which detects incoming mortar rounds, and it allowed them to target those mortar crews and fire back, taking them by surprise and killing a number of their best mortar crews, before they wised up and started moving frequently. As a consequence their accuracy had gone way down.)
So after a time, the enemy stopped shooting and presumably packed it up and left. Our theory was the enemy was using local taxis to ferry themselves around. Looking back, everyone was really just itching for a target. Their theory could have some basis on logic but by no means did we have any basis to conclude that the truck we picked out to fire upon was actually enemy insurgents. It was just a truck, driving down the highway behind the little town. It all looked so small through binoculars and being so far away. So did the massive crowd of people who showed up for the funerals the next day. I held the binoculars and kept an eye on that truck while one of our good ole boys (who had been the beneficiary of a round of simulator training on this new weapon and thus was the designed expert) zeroed in on the target. The Javelin is a shoulder fired missile which can target both air (helicopters) or land (tank) targets. It is specifically designed to kill tanks, and it does this by flying way up in the sky and zooming down at high speed through its weakest point: the roof. This old Russian farm truck didn't stand a chance.
The soldier damn near stepped off the roof when he pulled the trigger, expecting blowback; nope, the spring loaded missile shot out of its disposable tube a couple dozen feet before the rocket motor then ignited, sending it zooming off at incredible speed and disappearing off into the sky. This is a true fire-and-forget missile syste
You don't know what you're talking about
Because UHC provides better care for less money than the for-profit insurance industry, who are and always have been the real "death panels" as they find new ways to jack up your rates while denying you coverage.
(but you knew that already)
What made you think this was ever going to happen? He voted in favor of the Patriot Act before he even became president.
Well, when you spend 4 years blowing cash on stimuluses and tax cuts and bailouts, I guess that does sorta become true.