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Ask Slashdot: Hearing Aids That Directly Connect To Smart Phones?
mtcups writes "I am a musician/IT guy whose hearing has suffered from VERY LOUD guitar players, (yes I do use earplugs now, but too late), and am faced with the outrageously priced hearing aids $4.5K+/pair and was appalled at their lack of integration with smart phones. It seems obvious to me that I should be able to control the hearing aids via a smart phone interface so I can shape the profile for different environments, and also control features like 'hearing loops' and Bluetooth connections. I have done some research, but my guess is that the hearing aid companies want proprietary systems and don't want a smartphone interface since they would loose control and it would allow for competition for cheaper & better programs. I am not convinced that a combination of good ear-buds, good microphone(s), and a smartphone interface couldn't totally replace these overpriced solutions."
I have several friends with hearing loss that have them. Frequently they have an interface box that connects to the phone with Bluetooth, and the hearing aids via, something else. Didn't pay further attention to it other than it being a small cool bit of hardware.
Didn't Nokia phones have T-loop integration on the 90s and 00s? What happened to it?
I use Siemens headsets which utilize a propriarety low energy radio signal to communicate with each other and a separate bluetooth gateway. I was told that Bluetooth drains too much energy from the small batteries so thay had to choose the gateway approach.
I also agree with you: te lack of being able to configure the audio characteristics yourself with a Smartphone is disturbing. Probably the market for tech enthusiasts that wear hearing aids is too small :-(
There are reasons why hearing aids are expensive, yada yada. Yet it does look like they're overinflated. Sounds like a great opportunity for a kickstarter project to me. If you can get to a point where you can develop a hearing at that does as well as existing ones at 1/8 of the price, I'm sure you can find more than 8 people that are willing to pay that 1/8 of the price for them.
When you enjoy your newfound wealth remember me!
Best,
Not a karma whore.
They like making you dependent on audiologists to set the things up. In turn, their products get sold at MSRP instead of deeply discounted online with DIY setup. That said, I understand the tuning process isn't trivial, and you wouldn't necessarily do a good job unless you're very dedicated to learning about it.
A lot of the hardware cost is due to making them tiny, power efficient enough to run a long time off of rather small batteries and still having enough DSP performance to really process the audio into something you can understand. That's a tough mix, but you're right - if you're willing to carry an outboard processor in your pocket and put up with poor battery life, you can probably cobble together something that works much cheaper. You would need earbuds with outward facing mics - almost like a bluetooth headset, except you want high sample rate bidirectional audio, which is a combination curiously lacking in the bluetooth spec.
Just some thoughts from someone who doesn't actually have hearing aids, but who's heard a little about 'em.
Look at the damage you've already done - and you want to be given full control over a device which makes things louder?
There's a reason the general public isnt permitted to fit their own devices.
Have two young daughters who have to wear Hearing Aids... Add in the cost of loss, damage replacement (because kids are hard on things, or lose them) and be thankful you're only in it for one set and don't have to get new custom ear molds/tubes, and sound level readjustments every few months because you're outgrowing them like kids do. Unfortunately, no medical insurance that I'm aware of, certainly not mine, covers them (can't even get an extra cost rider for them). It's a serious medical racket.
One issue with hearing aid interfaces might be the energy required and the impact on hearing aid battery life. Building a bluetooth interface into the hearing aid itself might be an issue for the in the ear models, and would certainly take a lot of energy. That is why an intermediate device is used which has a bluetooth interface to other devices, such as telephones, computers, etc. and a proprietary interface with the hearing aid (in my case, the effective distance of that interface is 50 cms., which must take a lot less energy than the 10m radius that bluetooth provides. The intermediate device has its own battery and is not used all the time, so the global autonomy of the system is much longer than if the hearing aid had bluetooth on board. For people with light or moderate hearing loss, the top of the line models might be overkill. For people with severe loss, such as myself, very few models provide the power and features that make social and business life possible at all in a semi-normal way. Are the devices over-priced? Probably. But I am happy to have the competition and the research that leads to continual improvements in the technology, and that needs to be funded somehow.
That really shouldn't have got past the editors...
You want a standard for controlling, so that everyone can control their aid, but that also opens the door to those that want to control OTHERS aid, without their permission. Sometimes the standards have holes in design, other times the implementation can have bugs. Either way, it's a risk no medical company will take. They prefer a closed protocol, that can not go through external scrutiny (security by obscurity).
Another such example (in my line of work) is usage of ethernet in cars. While ethernet by itself would be ok, they also want internet in cars, which means there will be at least 1 device with both connections (internet and in-car ethernet) which will be vulnerable to external attacks (think about someone locking your brakes at 100mph, after disabling ABS+ESP). I even think they will try controller updating over internet which will be even worse.
Apple has already made iPhones compatible with hearing aids and appears to be looking to refine it with "made for iPhone" aids.
Local market isn't so skewed as the american health market, where everything costs 10x to 100x more than it's worth. AKA: The story of a woman bitten by a scorpio being forced to fork out $40 000 for an antidote worth $100. So, try your reserarch in the EU. You can't go wrong with that.
I'm deaf in one ear, but I get by in life without a hearing aid. I recently started using AfterShokz headphones for my running, and was pleasantly surprised that I could hear stereo sound again through these headphones. I also started using an Android app at work called AroundSound which stops your music when someone starts talking to you and replays the last thing that was said through your headphones. So by combining these two, it's allowed me to hear the beginning of conversations better, when normally I would have to ask someone to repeat what they said before I could turn around and actively listen. It's not an all day solution, but I find it's helped me a bit in my day-to-day work life.
So you are right that some good mics, earbuds, and a DSP could mostly replace hearing aids, with the right programming and calibration. The issue would be size. Those expensive hearing aids fit all that in or around your ear, and get pretty good battery life to boot.
So sure, I could design you something using off the shelf components, but it would be large. It takes some pretty advanced manufacturing to pack it all in to that tiny a package.
You are right that tunability would be a good feature. I'm not sure why they don't have it, may be a mixture of regulations (medical devices have pretty tight restrictions on them), anti-competitiveness, and just lack of adaptation.
So if you want to geek out and roll your own, go for it. Just realize it will end up being a bit bulky. In terms of software implementation it depends on what you want. Good hearing aids work like multi-band dynamics compressors/limiters. They bring up the frequencies you have problems hearing, but make sure to compress things so that loud frequencies don't cause more damage. If you are doing it on a device with a lot of power you might go multi-stage, do noise reduction, EQ, multi-band compression, and brick-wall limiting in that order. That would give you sound superior to any hearing aid out there, and require a fairly beefy processor (by mobile standards).
Why are you surprised that there's no Smartphone interface to your hearing aid? There are few people that know enough about audiology to make effective and safe adjustments to their hearing aid, and there's little incentive for the hearing aid companies to provide such an interface, or to collaborate on an industry wide standard. Besides, adding something like Bluetooth would really eat into the power budget of the hearing aid, greatly limiting battery life, while the Bluetooth chipset would take up room that could be better used for more DSP hardware or better microphones/speakers in the unit.
That said, here's a link with resources for finding PC programming software for your hearing aid. You may need to choose your hearing aid based on which manufacturers are willing to provide the software to end users:
http://www.amperordirect.com/pc/help-hearing-aid/z-hearing-aid-program-tools.html
At the last Chaos Communication Congress, Helga Velroyen discussed this and other topics around hearing aid evolution. You can find her talk at ftp://ftp.ccc.de/congress/2011/mp4-h264-HQ/28c3-4669-en-bionic_ears_h264.mp4 and a corresponding blog project at http://blog.hackandhear.com/ . While I do not have to rely on hearing aids and thus have not looked very deeply into her activities, I get the impression that she is one of the most knowledgeable persons regarding this topic in the European hacker scene.
I've had to turn my "good ear" to quiet people since my early 20s thanks to countless hours in bands so I can sympathize but there are a number of reasons why you don't see the kind of control your asking for. The most obvious is that most people who need these devices are not technically savvy and would either be turned off by the complicated process of adjusting their hearing aid(s) or would just ignore the feature. You're talking about something that is on the wish list of a very small percentage of a very small market. In 30 or 40 years, that will change as today's tech addicts age and expand the market so that there is enough demand to create the product. But, right now, the market is mostly people who are in their 70s and up. Try to imagine your grandma tweaking her hearing aid with her iphone.
Also, there is a lot that goes into setting up one of those high end hearing aids. I'm blind as a bat and, while I know a lot about vision correction, I know that there's no way I'd be able to grind lenses as well as a pro. It takes a lot of training and experience to do that kind of thing. Something that drives me nuts is those racks of "reading glasses" at the drug store. Sure they're cheap but spending the money for an eye exam and lenses that actually match the individual correction requirements for each eye is soooo much better. $5 vs. $200 is a no brainer for me. I want to see and I want to see well. (Actually, my glasses are closer to a grand because of my insane prescription but I'm pricing it at what a "drug store" buyer would be paying.) Your "earbuds and a microphone" concept is like drug store reading glasses. It's cheap and better than nothing but a far cry from what's possible.
FWIW, most cell phones do support hearing aids in that they'll provide audio to the hearing aid using various methods. Look at the specs of the phones to see which phones support what methods. They'll say "M4" "T3" "T4" etc. to indicate which hearing aid(s) they're compatible with.
"I am not convinced that a combination of good ear-buds, good microphone(s), and a smartphone interface couldn't totally replace these overpriced solutions."
Your only choice for this is probably iOS, since Android's latencies are still much much higher than is required for real time audio.
There's also the issue of actually getting a decent mic into the system without a custom preamp... and where would mount, say, an off-the-shelf lavalier? On your lapel? Permanently?
The same principle could be applied to autism or other conditions that cause sensory overload. Hyperacusis and sensory integration disorder cause irritation, physical pain and difficulty comprehending spoken words. An amplifier containing some form of equalisation and some form of compression and limiting can hugely improve the listening experience - I have experimented with a guitar amplifier, which is not very portable.
Combining isolating, noise-cancelling headphones with a filter / limiter would allow people with hyperacusis to experience sound without discomfort. A smart phone would make an infinitely adaptable device that is socially acceptable and useable in places like cinema theatres.
AutoZen: http://www.linuxlabs.com/autozen.shtml
No matter how much you train with it it won't improve your hearing. But it might make you a more interesting person.
Actually to wrench this back on-topic, it might be a really good synthetic test input for your non-medial hearing helper android app, since it can save to .wav files.
Even better, this is far enough out there that it could help make your non-medical home hearing test app (I'd pay $0.99 for that) less of a target for selling a medical device without a license lobbying^W lawsuits.
~.~
I'm a peripheral visionary.
https://www.blameysaunders.com.au/hearing-aid-prices
You can program/tweak these yourself.
I have not looked at the details, but I know COSTCO carries some nice hearing aids with Bluetooth capability.
The newer version of Bluetooth uses far less power than older versions. It should be suitable for hearing aid use.
I use Siemens headsets which utilize a propriarety low energy radio signal
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Sounds like somebody should make this.
Last year's CCC had a nice talk about hacking them.
An interesting and informative blog. She points to America Hears as one of the very few vendors who sell a software interface to their hearing aids so users can self-tune.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
WHAT?
Hearing aid manufacturers are very worried about battery life. You can't have a hearing aid running Linux and doing DSP and blasting your brain with 2.4GHz radiation from inside your skull, in that small a form factor, without starting to deal with a battery lifetime measured in minutes.
The expensive part of the hearing aid, is not the earbud part, but the microphone part. A cell phone mic is not nearly good enough. Remember, the "good microphones(s)" you would use have to be small enough to fit on what is basically an earbud and sensitive enough to pick up environmental sounds but not too sensitive. Then you need dumb filters (a DSP would be better) to be able to make adjustments), a place to hold the battery and an amplifier.
Now fit it in something that will fit in your ear. There's a reason good hearing aids are so expensive. The best of the current crop are pretty impressive tech.
I don't know much about blue tooth, but can you make a bluetooth receiver small as an RFID that will fit inside an earbud?
I have no doubt that a committed hacker could put together a proper hearing aid out of a set of really high-end earphones, some stuff from Newark Electronics, a couple of microphones out of an iPhone and four dry-cell batteries and a football helmet and a wagon to pull it in.
Making something small enough to wear inside your ear unobtrusively is another story. It might cost you some money.
You are welcome on my lawn.
This device can act as a bridge between a bluetooth device and the RF protocol supported by some Starkey hearing aids.
http://www.starkeypro.com/surflinkmobile/
ACEHearing is an upcoming App for smartphones that administers a hearing test (verified as accurate as traditional tests given by audiologists) then it dynamically adjusts the volume of audio outputs in specific frequency ranges to compensate for your specific hearing loss.
http://www.economicswiki.com/acehearing-app-ximplar/
Common Sense isn't as Common as people think...
Most optometrists or ophthalmologists that are being honest will tell people that otherwise don't need glasses to just use the drugstore models for a while until their prescription progresses to a point (if ever) that a more customized pair is required. Certainly you can't use them because of your particular problems, but that doesn't mean they are a bad option for people overall.
But your overall point is correct... "nice earbuds, a microphone, and a smartphone interface" are simply not going to cut it, unless the iPhone jammed in a high-quality DSP I'm unaware of.
The only ones I found that worked well at all were 12 thousand dollars, they used bluetooth , phones, ipods were crystal clear, but so was the price, same amount I put down on the house I'm living in. So I still say huh a lot, lol
I have an older cochlear implant with a 1/8" jack that allows me to plug "line in" type devices. Definitely not the same as a hearing aid. I bought a BluBridge Mini-Jack RX, and it does work for sound in, but I also need the TX unit to connect to the phone because the BT audio out doesn't work with my phone while I'm using it as a phone. BT works Ok when the phone's a music player.
Your mileage will probably vary.
I've been deaf most of my life. I recently received a Chili Oticon hearing aid (http://oticon.com/products/hearing-aids/power/chili/about-chili.aspx) and a connectline streamer (http://oticon.com/products/wireless-accessories/connectline/about-connectline.aspx) which is a loop connection to the Chili, and picks up Bluetooth, so it was multipurpose, for working with phones and any bluetooth connectable sound sources.
Unfortunately, my hearing crashed worse and now I'm dealing with Cochlear implants... which WILL include a similar handheld device, and the Connectline *SHOULD* be fully compatible with the Cochlear processor!
Its one of them 200 new features Apple is bragging about.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Sounds like Oticon ConnectLine might be what you are looking for.
http://oticon.com/products/wireless-accessories/connectline/about-connectline.aspx
Siemens / Rexton (same company,more or less, use a remote bluetooth the FM translator. Like wise, bernafon. I think Resound uses a direct Bluetooth, but I'm not certain. I have Rextons. You major issue is accumulated lag time - I wanted to use the remote to take off the board for a direct feed into the aids, but, while it worked, the delay made it useless. If you are not syncing with real time audio, then you'll be fine. You should go to Costco to buy your aids- you'll get a pair plus remote for around $3k, and unlimited support. I hate to break it to you, but hearing aid companies, with the exception of Bernafon (Chronos 9) and Resound, do not know how to set aids for live music. The people that sell the aids don't either, and they do not have the gear to be able to test the aids in real world sound levels, especially with music. You will laugh when they play a clip of a symphony on a pair of tiny computer speakers and try to convince you that that is a test for "music". You will, as I have been doing for over 8 years now through 6 sets of aids, wind up programming the aids yourself. And here is a critical issue: Inout stage headroom. It is incredibly stupid, but hearing aid makers do not tell you how much sound the can take without overloading the input stage. Most of them seem to think that 95db input A/D is fine, but on stage can go past 100db quick. The trouble is, most makers do not use an input stage limiter, so what happens is the aids go into digital distortion, very ugly sounding. I am going to capitalize here: DO NOT BUY A PAIR OF AIDS UNTIL YOU GET VERBAL CONFIRMATION OF THE INPUT STAGE HEADROOM DIRECT FROM THE MAKER. Do not trust anyone until you know for sure, and I can tell you right now the info is not on any of the aid data sheets. I know - I have been through three pairs of aids with this problem, and have had the hearing aid makers' audiologists tell me the wrong thing - twice. They do not know, and they will say "Oh, no one ever asks this." If they say that, then you should not buy that aid. Resound has an Alera that will take 108 without distorting, and Bernafon may be your best bet - they have a music channel with Live music plus, designed by Marshall Chasen, that is a mimic of the old LP RIAA curve - rolls off top and bottom at input, then restores it at output. Neat. Google that name, and Google Mead Killien / K - amp. If you can hold off until mid Oct. there may be new models coming out. Aids are nothing more than a CPU and some programming, a microphone and a speaker, all put together by companies that focus on speech, but not fidelity. They tend to put in all these craptastic features that do nothing but inhibit fidelity. For instance, for music, you must turn off anti feedback, speech enhancers, multi microphone,s auto gain, etc. basically strip it down to an EQ, a bank of compressors and a multi band limiter, to get it to work. FInally make sure you get to see the adjustment software- this is the other weak link - as a musician, you will need as many EQ and compression bands as you can get, and you will need the fastest comp release times around. You will be amazed to find that most aids only give you two EQ band for half of the music spectrum - 500hz and 250hz - half of a piano. You will need at least one more at 125Hz and at least 8 compression bands. And you will need at least four bands of limiter called MPO in hearing aid parlance. If you want more info, email me direct.
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my ears are ringing from tinitus now, even though I haven't heard anything loud for days. you must protect yourself -- I've been wearing earplugs where necessary since realizing i was losing my top end in my 20's because of extremely loud guitarists and drummers (bassists usually aren't such dicks). being a keyboardist, I have had to compete with the guitars, and I can't stand playing so loud it hurts. just for once i want to be in a band where we play soft. if the audience can't hear, then they should STFU.
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
In the pas that was true of Bluetooth. However, with the release of Bluetooth low energy this is resolved. In addition there will be things like hearing aid profiles. Until the last year, it would have been very impracticable to use Bluetooth in a hearing aid. Especially given that folks who wear aids want them to be as small as possible.
If you are interested to read about it, it can be found here:
http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/Loud-and-Clear.aspx
Wikipedia says that Apple iOS 6 includes "'Made For iPhone' specification for hearing aids.". I suspect that means Apple expects at least some hearing aids to be smartphone-compatible.
He never said the guitar was loud, he said the player was loud, you twit! Maybe the guy WAS YELLING IN HIS FUCKING EAR ALL THE TIME.
I'm in the same boat. I've been going to shows and playing in bands for a long time. My hearing has been shot for years.
However, I still play in bands(can't help myself...) and used the standard foam ear plugs for years, which cut so much of certain frequencies.
My guitar player turned me onto the custom fit ear plugs with insertable db reducing "mini-plugs". These things are great. They custom fit your ear canal(via a visit to the ear doctor), so they fit perfect, and you have two different db cutting plugs to put into them. These things are great to play AND sing with, unlike the foam style plugs.
You can also get these as in-ear monitors. Westone.
I usually don't "plug" companies unless I've had a good experience with them.
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
I have been using hearing aids since highschool (over 15 yrs ago). There have been big strides in technology, but they do keep them unaffordable for the most part. I have a bluetooth adapter, but it is very finnicky. It really would be nice to have better technology. I still find that talking on the phone or using them for anything other than talking with others, they severely lack in sound quality and often get in the way. I end up taking them out just to talk on a normal phone as the telecoils like to randomly connect and disconnect.
It would be awesome to design an open source hearing aid that allows for easy use with a cellphone and work phone. I wish I was good at designing, as I would start up a kickstarter campaign.
yup
My son, who is currently in the Warrior in Transition Unit, preparing to get out of the Army has hearing aids that will pair with his cell phone.
Unfortunately, he won't wear them, they give him headaches (without the pairing...), so they're pretty much useless for him at least.
I have no idea what brand they are.
Bryan
Some of us are losing our hearing, and in a hand full of years will be effectively deaf; it's chilling. My first thought was about hearing aids; but then I was looking at my Smart Phone and thought, "Is there an API so that I can make a Speech to Text App?" As for me, my Smart Phone is becoming useful in ways other than listening to it.
I wear an Oticon Chili SP9, which is a high power digital aid, programmable by the audiologist. There's a DAI (direct audio input) boot available, which I use with my low-end MP3 player. There's also a much more sophisticated set of devices called "Connectline" http://oticonusa.com/Oticon/Professionals/professional_products/ConnectLine.html based on a gadget that hangs around your neck or in your pocket. It adds Bluetooth connectivity (and limited control of the aid) from the gadget. It only works with certain Oticon aids using a protocol I haven't been able to decode.
The Connectline gadget seemed like a good idea at the time, and I willingly spent the (lot) of extra money, but I find I mostly use the wired DAI boot. The Bluetooth gadget is more of a pain than a help. The battery doesn't last very long (less than a workday) and has to be shut off to recharge, which it does via a mini-USB connector. And it only links to one or two Bluetooth devices at a time. Also, it interferes with the Bluetooth system in my car.
Mine is a bit more selective, I can't hear anyone or anything that sounds like my wife.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
http://www.embracehearing.com/collections/frontpage/products/embrace-xmini-hearing-aid ... only $2k!!! Gah so expensive!
Now all those phones that say "hearing impaired compatible?" that's a load of baloney. The T-coils generate a boat load of hum around florescent lights making the "T-coil" all but worthless. There's a dozen or so laws that ought to be changed in congress...the medical device restriction on "hearing aids" is one of them.
Just add {In Space!} to anything.
tldr: /sarcasm alert heavily condensed version.
Check out AmericaHears.com (I am a customer, not a shill). They have along and successful history with self fitted devices.
rant:
They sell almost-state of the art hearing aids for about $1k each. The cartel doesn't like them so your friendly local audiologist won't touch them to either tune or repair so they come with self tuning software and a USB interface. If you can't manage the software, the company will tune them remotely for free.
Audiologists are somewhat like Ophthalmologists in that they will usually help you out no matter where you purchased your vision/hearing tech. Hearing aids manufactured by America Hears and their ilk are a surprising exception as most audiologists will immediately recognize the brand and send you away empty handed/eared.
I tried out state of the art units ($6.5k) before purchasing these and the expensive ones actually gave me slightly more hearing acuity but always sounded "amplified". The less expensive America Hears units, while they are very slightly lower in acuity, are not detectable by sound quality. When I put them on, I just hear better without being able to detect sound artifacts of amplification. I believe that the reason for this qualitative difference is that I am able to tune the units for the exact acoustics of my ear canals using the tone comparisons in the tuning software. The acoustics of a hearing test with headphones are entirely different from those with the sound coming from a speaker inside of your ear canal. Having my own tuning setup allowed me to get them exactly right.
You can also get high end, major brand hearing aids on ebay for around $3k but you will have to take them to an audiologist for tuning since the major manufacturers charge thousands for the same software and USB hookup that came for free with my units. Not only do they charge thousands, you can't buy them, only sold to audiologists.
You should check out some of the astroturfing on HOH forums criticizing "non-industry" solutions, it is pretty funny. They cite examples of disasters completely epic in scope. So epic that if any of them actually happened, the offending company couldn't possibly have survived the litigation storm. Stuff like "This one guy pulled his whole eardrum and middle ear out with the ear impression get! OMG!! Danger Will Robinson!"
The bottom line is that I saved $4.5k (big since insurance for my IT job (and most others) won't cover hearing aids) and got improved sound quality plus the ability to self tune for a minor step down in technology.
I believe that there are a very few other independent manufacturers with a similar business model but I don't have experience with them.
Thanks for putting up with my rant.
Er, my Phonaks and my ex-wife's both pair up to our phones via bluetooth and have for ... 3 years?
Some time ago I ran across these interesting earbuds:
http://www.livescribe.com/en-us/smartpen/pulse/accessories.html
With a bit of hacking it is possible to break out the mics and the speakers.
With that done one would just need to build out some hardware to digitize the mic inputs and process them appropriately to produce some useful amplification/filtering functions.
I have used them for binaural recording, they work quite well. Others who have heard the recordings say it was just like being there. For those who are familiar with binaural filter arrays, it it far from perfect. However, as is often the case that 'perfect' is the enemy of 'good enough'. YMMV
I think a decent processing system could be developed using a XMOS L2 device and a Cirrus Logic 24 bit codec. Bonus points for adding recording functions and audio file playback. A more advanced device might add dual-channel bluetooth to the mix.
If you're an active hearing impaired person I strongly suggest that you have your hearing aid serviced at least once a year. Unserviced hearing aids will always let you down at the worse possible time.
Smartphones have enough digital signal processing capability to provide all the functions of a regular hearing aid, despite challenges in accelerating Bluetooth audio and optimizing for different smartphone platforms. Check out this Indiegogo project: http://igg.me/p/174304?a=891905.