Iran Set To Block Access To Google

legolas writes "The official state online censorship body in Iran has reported that Google and Gmail are going to be blocked effective immediately, ostensibly in response to the contentious videos that YouTube is hosting. This comes as Iran is preparing the launch of their 'Halal' intranet to replace the current direct (albeit highly censored) access to the global Internet. While there have been several state-organized protests for the film 'Innocence Of Muslims' in Iran, the public in general doesn't seem bothered by it."

Comments

Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[squiggleslash]

This poll seems timely: http://www.gallup.com/poll/148763/muslim-americans-no-justification-violence.aspx

People react to the culture in which they're brought up. And even in the Middle East, it's a small proportion of Muslims acting in the way rightists here want to depict all Muslims as.

As an atheist, I have no dog in this fight, except one: I want to live in a peaceful world. Six years ago I wrote this journal entry. I'm more fearful today than then that a new Hitler will arise, and no less convinced that the chances are equal that such a Hitler will come from the West as they are from the Middle East.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[TaoPhoenix]

Trying to save this from a First Post Godwin,

Mr. H. is passe. That's not precisely how the next threat will manifest. The world is too networked for that. I don't have time to read my 1,000 pages for Citations Needed, but basically Mr. H. got as far as he did because of the specific places he was in geography-time.

Now, we might see another Charismatic Dangerous Leader, yes. But you can't go just marching along, not today. So the next Bad Guy will be more of a Loose Cannon that needs to be talked down Game Theory style, with VERY clever diplomacy.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[Twigmon]

I think the most scary thing from the poll you linked is that 8% of Muslims did not agree that: Muslims living in the U.S. do not sympathize with the al Qaeda terrorist organization.

This means that 1 in 12 Muslims interviewed could believe that Muslims living in the U.S. sympathize with an organisation who openly hates western society.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[poity]

I'm not sure about those equal chances. People in the West don't fear for their lives when they espouse anti-authoritarian or anti-religion views. This tells me there are more barriers in the West to some imaginary future Hitler. Now, you can say those barriers aren't good enough for you, but the difference is there and the equivalence is false.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[dskoll]

People react to the culture in which they're brought up.

So... does it have nothing to do with culture and religion that most Muslim countries have poor human development levels? That most Muslim countries are sexist (in practice even if they deny it) and homophomic? That a disproportionate number of conflicts involve Muslim countries? Or that most people killed in religiously-motivated riots in the last 50 years have been killed by Muslims (and indeed, have probably been Muslim themselves)?

As another atheist, I think all religion is bad. But just because all religions are bad doesn't mean that all religions are equally bad and at this particular moment in history, Islam is by far the most dangerous religion.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[poity]

Well, that could have other meanings. It could mean, as you say, that they're admitting something. But it could just as likely mean that there are some Muslims who are cynical about people of their faith. I'm sure we can find a good percentage of self-identified Christians who think they're surrounded by fundamentalists and think there are people among them who sympathize with abortion clinic bombers. Less of them would think so as compared to non-Christians, just like the graph, but I'm sure you could find 8 cynics out of 100.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[Blaskowicz]

Mr H. had a similar opinion on evil, which was spelled as either jewry or weakness. Strength can only prevail if it eliminates all kinds of weakness.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[Taco Cowboy]

The above jibber-jabber you replied to is siding with Iran even though he didn't say so.

By implying that a new "Hitler" could rise out of the West while all the signs are pointing towards the Middle East and the surrounding area - Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, Egypt, Libya.

Shutting out Google / YouTube is not the only thing Iran is doing.

Iran is also banning Female Students from taking courses in 77 subjects, including English Literature, Nuclear Science, Sociology, Philosophy

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-22/iranian-women-banned-from-77-university-courses/4275764

It's a totally fucked up world under Islam and more often than not the "new Hitler" will come from a fucked up world, not from places like the West.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[jhoegl]

If you dont think hate is being generated here in the USA by "news channel talk show hosts" or "radio talk show hosts", then you havent been paying attention.
It takes generations to remove hate from a culture, but it only takes a few years to generate it.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[LordLimecat]

But the original Hitler came from the west not from a fucked up place.

What exactly do you suppose you would call Germany, post WW1? Hyperinflation isnt typically the mark of a great place to live.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm no expert on the subject (I know everyone else is), but I seem to remember Hitler arose in a battered, lagging nation, suffering from years of retribution over WWI. And before the inevitable, "oh well our economy kinda stinks", you'll have to work pretty hard to convince me that the state of our nation's psyche is anywhere near postwar Germany.

Meanwhile, Gallup says Obama is in the lead, beating a contender that (all hyperbole aside) does not resemble a maniacal dictator with ambitions of taking over the world and breeding a race of aryans to rule for a thousand years. At worst he's an insensitive 2000's-era business mogul looking to enrich his somewhat-similar buddies. At best, he's a political panderer with the ideological spine of a wet noodle and little real prowess to back it up, just doing what looked like the next stop on his career path.

If you want to find a Hitler, I think you'd have to look somewhere pretty poor (not: I can't have the new iphone 5 for another 6 months), where once there was wealth, with a raging hard-on for the outside world. Then find the intelligent, convincing, hard core political leader that presents himself as a "true believer" fighting for his people.

I know we hear some pretty nasty stuff on TV sometimes, but the idea that we're nearing anything close to building a Fourth Reich in earnest seems really silly. Our hot-button issues sound like, "shouldn't gays have all the same marriage priviledges as straights?!" and "is capital gains tax too low?!" or "I think marijuana should be legal!" It all sounds like a far cry from, "are muslims really human beings, or sub-human creatures we should blame for 8% unemployment?"

I dunno... like I said, I'm no expert in geopolitics. That's just how it all looks to me.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[AK Marc]

Yup. the next Hitler will come from a conservative USA after the economic collapse. There will be piles of "I told you so"s and "this all started with 9/11" and other things blaming the Muslims and such for all the hardships in post-collapse USA. We are getting surprisingly close now, with 47-49% of Americans being lazy freeloading leaches taking government money and not paying any taxes. Like my mother who worked for the government for 30+ years and is retired now, sucking the government dry by not killing herself on retirement day. If a liberal posted the exact words from Mitt, he'd be accused of making it up.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[AK Marc]

I'd think that anyone that truly didn't have a religion, if I asked them about the subject they'd just say "Oh I dunno... never really thought about it."

Have you ever answered that in a group of believers? They'll talk to you until you tell them you are saved, or start professing your love to the anti-God. Either way, I've found few religious people that allow for people who do not pick a side.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[cold fjord]

People react to the culture in which they're brought up. And even in the Middle East, it's a small proportion of Muslims acting in the way rightists here want to depict all Muslims as.

Yes, this is clearly a problem of "rightest" depiction of the actions of Islamists.

Bounty on Salman Rushdie increased to $3.3 million - Iran will pursue makers of anti-Islam film: vice-presidenthor

Pakistani minister puts bounty on anti-Islam filmmaker's head

Egypt's president elect Mohammed Morsi says he will try to free Blind Sheikh

Mohammed Morsi, Egypt's president elect, on Friday appealed for the release of one of Osama bin Laden's closest associates, a call sure to alarm critics worried about the direction he will take the country

Interview with Father Zakaria Botros, 'Radical Islam's Bane' - An interview with the Coptic Orthodox Priest with a 60 million dollar bounty on his head from al Qaeda.
More: Michael Coren Interviews Father Zakaria Botros 'Radical Islam's Bane'

Allied Menace

"Here are two brother countries, united like a single fist," said socialist Hugo Chávez during a visit to Tehran last November, celebrating his alliance with Islamist Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Che Guevara's son Camilo, who also visited Tehran last year, declared that his father would have "supported the country in its current struggle against the United States." They followed in the footsteps of Fidel Castro, who in a 2001 visit told his hosts that "Iran and Cuba, in cooperation with each other, can bring America to its knees." For his part, Ilich Ramírez Sánchez ("Carlos the Jackal") wrote in his book L'islam révolutionnaire ("Revolutionary Islam") that "only a coalition of Marxists and Islamists can destroy the United States."

As an atheist, I have no dog in this fight, except one: I want to live in a peaceful world.

You want to live in a peaceful world, and al-Qaida and assorted Islamists want you to live in a Muslim world. I expect that neither of you will get your wish unless enough people prefer any peace, even the peace of the graveyard, or the "peace" of slavery, to the long term struggle to defense genuine peace a freedom.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[cold fjord]

Now, we might see another Charismatic Dangerous Leader, yes.

The desired habits are being installed even now.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[mjwx]

Most atheists I know have a dog in every fight. Proclaim "There is no God!" is just as annoying as telling everyone to repent. Your anti-believe in God is just as fervent as any foaming at the mouth preachers belief. I'd think that anyone that truly didn't have a religion, if I asked them about the subject they'd just say "Oh I dunno... never really thought about it." Instead you have your own religion, Atheism, and you believe anyone that doesn't agree with your faith is strange and capable of violence. If only they had the same moral compass as you do... perhaps you should try and convert them? Oh wait...

Sorry, but this is what you want to beleive, not reality.

In simple terms, it's wrong.

It is also clear, you've never actually talked to atheists. It is an utter fabrication you need to tell yourself this in order to compensate for your own self doubt. This is a weakness in your faith, not a aspect of my lack of faith. You seem to be offended when I say, "there is no god" but I'm not offended when you say "there is a god" because I do not fear what you do or do not believe in.

I proclaim, "there is no god", I also proclaim "I dont want you to do anything". What you believe in is your business, I only ask the same courtesy to be returned and for you not to demand I believe in your deity.

Yes, whether or not you believe in god has zero effect on me as I don't believe in god. To use an analogy, your hobby of collecting stamps has not effect on my hobby of not collecting stamps.

The question is, why is your faith so weak that you are so offended that I don't believe in god.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[jhoegl]

You seem to think a non-functioning government is not a large issue. When governments collapse or change shape it is because one side has found a way to take large amounts of power from another (Nazi's, Iraq,USSR...). We are seeing that take shape right now. And it is because of polarization, lieing, and manipulation that it is happening. Again, much like history has shown us.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[cold fjord]

It takes generations to remove hate from a culture, but it only takes a few years to generate it.

Assuming it ever really leaves. . .

The Full-Blown Return of Anti-Semitism in Europe
The New Anti-Semitism
Is Toulouse the Future of Europe?

If you dont think hate is being generated here in the USA by "news channel talk show hosts" or "radio talk show hosts", then you havent been paying attention.

The problem is bigger than you think.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[Mr2cents]

I know a few Iranian students, and from what I can tell, there is a *huge* gap between the people and the government in Iran. While the leaders are frantically screaming and warmongering, the population just sighs, shake their heads, and go on living. The petty rules are simply ignored whenever they can. Civil disobedience is a national hobby. I love that attitude. This is especially true in the larger cities that are more modern than you might think.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[MaskedSlacker]

It's a totally fucked up world under Islam and more often than not the "new Hitler" will come from a fucked up world, not from places like the West.

You need to make up your mind. You can't say things like the new Hitler will come from a fucked up world, not from places like a fucked up world and still expect us to listen.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[cold fjord]

The problem areas in the American fiscal environment are pretty well known. I don't think anyone would seriously try to blame Muslims for them as it would be obvious nonsense.

FDR knew that the funding mechanism for Social Security had to change long term, and it has never been done. And please spare us from nonsense about wars and defense spending being the problem, because they aren't. Rapidly increasing social welfare spending mixed with soaring debts, and an economy that is frozen by government meddling (such as helped create the housing and mortgage meltdown) and unable to produce jobs, growth, and income, is what will push the United States over the edge, if anything.

Chart of the Week: Federal Spending on Defense vs. Entitlements

What Happened to the $2.6 Trillion Social Security Trust Fund?
Who doesn’t pay taxes, in eight charts
Public-Employee Unions Gone Wild,
The Path to Economic Disaster

And lets not forget the Euro crisis - if Europe collapses, it might very well drag down the US. Once again, it would be pretty clear what happened.

If there is a new "Hitler", he is very unlikely to come from conservative America.

Bad socialist habits coming to America: Obama's Creepy Cult of Personality

America's 'Fascist Moment'

. . . . contemporary liberalism descended from the ranks of 20th-century progressivism, and "shares intellectual roots with European fascism."

When Mr. Goldberg uses the term "liberal fascism," he is not offering a right-wing version of the left's smears. He knows it is a loaded term. What he is talking about is the historical idea of fascism: a corporatist and statist social structure that creates a deep reliance of its subjects on the government and engenders a sense of community and purpose. In American politics, this tendency toward statism has always been much more at home on the left than on the right.

It is impossible in a short review to do justice to the rich intellectual history of American liberalism that Mr. Goldberg offers to his readers. He has read widely and thoroughly, not only in the primary sources of fascism, but in the political and intellectual history written by the major historians of the subject.

Readers will learn that the very term "liberal fascism" came from the pen of H.G. Wells, the famed socialist author who delivered a speech at Oxford University in 1932 that included hosannas to both Stalin's Russia and Hitler's Germany. "I am asking," Wells told the students, "for a Liberal Fascisti, for enlightened Nazis." Democracy, he argued, had to be replaced with new forms of government that would save mankind, producing a "'Phoenix Rebirth' of liberalism" that would be called "Liberal Fascism." Like the activism, experimentation, and discipline that made the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany new dynamic societies, the West too could reach such a plateau by adopting the new soft fascism that suited it best.. . . .

Indeed, America, as Mr. Goldberg writes, certainly had a "Fascist moment." It was not, however, during the current presidency, but one that extended from progressivism through the New Deal. Mr. Goldberg traces the American roots of liberal fascism to the presidency of Woodrow Wilson, who saw i

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[Tastecicles]

There is only one race. The Human Race.

Might I suggest a new term: cultural genocide.

I've cleared court rooms with that one.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[dkf]

Hitler was Austrian, dumbass.

That's correct, but unhelpful. The issue is that it has to be understood from within the context of German unification, which had been a political project in what is now Germany through a lot of the second half of the 19th century. This ran out of steam somewhat toward the end of that century, but it was all recent enough — especially during Hitler's childhood — that it wasn't a ridiculous thing. An Austrian could claim to be german, and everyone would agree with that even knowing the facts of the person's birth.

It's different now. The Austrians are far more certain that they are not Germans (except in an ethnic sense).

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[pantaril]

I know a few Iranian students, and from what I can tell, there is a *huge* gap between the people and the government in Iran. While the leaders are frantically screaming and warmongering, the population just sighs, shake their heads, and go on living. The petty rules are simply ignored whenever they can. Civil disobedience is a national hobby. I love that attitude. This is especially true in the larger cities that are more modern than you might think.

What you describe is a relic of a past. Until 1953, iran was quite democratic, progressive and western-oriented country. Unfortunately, great britain and US were afraid, that iran will align with soviet russia and orchestraded coup d'état which transfered the power to authoritan leader and later to religious groups. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat or the movie/comix Persepolis, if your are interested about actions which lead to current situation.

Unfortunately the actions of current regime (internet censorhip, ban on women higher education etc) will soon mark end for that few groups of freedom-thinking people that are left there.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[Gavagai80]

Any atheist will tell you there are very peaceful religions -- the Quakers, Buddhists, Jains, etc. We consider your religion potentially violent because of the facts of how it's been used through history and the present to promote violence, not simply because we disagree with it.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[kbg]

You don't find it alarming that Obama has a kill list, can kill people anywhere (even US citizens) without any trial or even any evidence of wrongdoing. Runs a prison where people are jailed indefinitely without any trial or jury. It all starts the same way, slowly and slowly your rights are taken away.

Re:Before we get the usual gaggle of fascists

[jbonomi]

When I was a Catholic I used to wonder why people would enthusiastically label themselves "atheists." "Really," I thought, "labeling yourself based on something you don't believe?" I was also quite annoyed; it seems almost impossible to indicate that you don't believe in God without being perceived as implying that those who do believe in God are fools. But if non-believers remain silent their bests interests are ignored and the religious begin to assume a position of preference and privilege. Don't deny this. People claim in the US that this is a Christian nation and often don't think twice about leading off official government and scholastic meetings with sectarian prayer. If people like me keep my lack of God belief to myself then we will be ignored. Of course, there ARE asshole atheists out there who do little besides patting themselves on the back and chuckle at creationists.

Re:No big loss

[gmuslera]

Certain US (and other countries) agencies needs them. How else they are supposed to do social engineering on iranian population?

This was to be expected regardless of this video

[cheesybagel]

After Stuxnet Iran started buying up networking equipment like crazy to make their own version of the Great Chinese Firewall. Eventually they were going to segregate all outbound communications. Considering the amount of information people trust to Google and the fact that the US Government can access the information if they ask for it (Google has little choice but to comply) there is little reason not to filter their services out completely. Plus if users are forced to use Iranian Internet services the Iranian state can then access all personal user information regardless if it is encrypted en route or not.

Re:This was to be expected regardless of this vide

[legolas]

Iran already tried to address this by forging certificates for man-in-the-middle attacks.

Re:Complete and utter pandering BULLSHIT

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you been to Iran? I was just there two months ago. The majority of the population hates their government, but they are too scared to do anything about it.

Re:Complete and utter pandering BULLSHIT

[dskoll]

Every Iranian I've ever met has been erudite, intelligent, moderate and truly delightful. The Iranian people are oppressed by Islamists who justify their power by appealing to Islam. As long as Islam holds sway over a billion+ people, injustices like the Iranian theocracy will perpetuate.

I wonder if someday this could be done here

[QilessQi]

in the United States. Large swaths of the country are deeply religious, by which I mean some stripe of Christianity. They have grown increasingly suspicious (if not downright scornful) of scientists and educators who challenge their views and threaten to corrupt the views of their children. I suspect that many of these folks sincerely see unrestricted search engines and an uncensored internet as tools of the devil. How far would public opinion have to tip before *all* searches are "safe" searches, and the "sanitized" web becomes the norm?

It seems unthinkable. But when 46% of the U.S. population earnestly believes that humans were created in their present form within the last 10,000 years, you have to be open to what happens if that number goes to 56%, or 96%.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/05/americans-believe-in-creationism_n_1571127.html

Re:I wonder if someday this could be done here

[rickb928]

For the record, I'm stil confused about something - gay marriage isn't illegal anywhere in the U.S. that I am aware of. It just isn't recognized in most states, and DOMA means it isn't recognized by the federal government.

Please, flame away, but I have several family members that are gay, got married, even adopted or birthed children, despite the states they live in not recognizing their union. THEY think they are married.

It's not about marriage, the ceremony happens all the time. It's about acceptance. And the nation as a whole is not yet of one mind on this, exept to say 'no'.

Re:This was to be expected regardless of this vide

[z0idberg]

Would be interesting to know where they are sourcing their networking equipment from and how much trust they are placing in the hardware/firmware.

Re:This was to be expected regardless of this vide

[artor3]

Wasn't Stuxnet transmitted by the good old fashioned "dropped" flash drive trick? I'm pretty sure these two events are unrelated. The Iranian theocracy wants control. This is just another vector by which to achieve it.

Halal intranet

[pjtp]

ok... can we have your IPv4 addresses.

Re:Complete and utter pandering BULLSHIT

[guttentag]

Every Iranian I've ever met has been erudite, intelligent, moderate and truly delightful.

This is consistent with my experience. I have the utmost respect for every Iranian I have personally gotten to know.

Then again, every Iranian I've ever met (a few dozen) took huge risks to escape the regime in Iran and request asylum in the U.S. Unless you have wide experience in Iranian cities and rural areas, the people we have met are more extreme than the general population, in much the same way that the steam that rises from a boiling pot is hotter than the water in the pot. I absolutely believe that in Iran, as in Russia, the masses do not believe the state propaganda being produced to keep a paranoid minority in power, but it would be a mistake to assume that the majority of people in Iran are like the ones who escaped. By definition, they're different because they didn't escape (for whatever reason).

It's also important to remember that being erudite, intelligent and moderate doesn't preclude one from being complicit with more radical ideas. About 15 years ago a relative in New York doing business with a factory in Pakistan asked me work with a technically-proficient relative of the owner of the factory to set up a modern communications channel to replace the expensive fax and telex method they'd been using for years. I was expecting difficulty in communicating concepts and file formats because I had no idea what kind of equipment they were using. As I talked with my counterpart in Pakistan, who happened to be a military officer, I was struck by how erudite, intelligent, moderate and practical he was. I liked the guy. We very quickly figured things out and saved both sides a lot of time and money. A year later, when Pakistan tested its first nuclear weapon, he was the military spokesperson quoted in all the English-language newspapers announcing the test. I am sure he was opposed to the test and the increased tensions with India that would result, but that didn't stop him from being used as the mouthpiece that spread fear around the world in the spring of 1998.

Hyperbole

[INowRegretThesePosts]

If you dont think hate is being generated here in the USA by "news channel talk show hosts" or "radio talk show hosts", then you havent been paying attention.
It takes generations to remove hate from a culture, but it only takes a few years to generate it.

The current "hate" is of the sort "I don't want a ground zero Mosque just like a Japanese wouldn't want Disneyland Hiroshima"
The Nazi kind of "hate" is of the sort "Retards and cripples must die, because they are inferior. Jews must all die, because they are monsters"

If you think that these two attitudes are remotely similar, then you are horribly sensationalist.

Re:Complete and utter pandering BULLSHIT

[guises]

The endless arguments on Slashdot seem to go like this: "Muslims are violent because Islam is bad."

"It's no worse than other religions, look at Christianity."

"But Christians don't get all weird about iconography, no rioting over cartoons."

"Christians get weird about other things, that's just one idiosyncratic example."

Look, the problem isn't with Islam or any other single belief system. Or any other single belief for that matter, this is about people in power maintaining their power by pushing a topic with broad public support. Usually that support comes from ignorance or gullibility. Look at all the things justified "because terrorists" or "child pornography" or "pedophile rapist home invaders, who are lurking around every corner." You don't solve this problem by ranting about Islam, you solve this problem by, somehow, convincing people that they need to be less gullible. This is why you so often hear people talking about education as a long term solution to corruption and other ills, and why dismantling public education is often such a high priority among the corrupt. Iran isn't keeping women out of schools out of misogyny, they're doing it to keep people tractable.

The point is: enough with the Islam/Christian bashing. Or religion in general. It's a red herring, there to distract you from the real problem.

Re:liberal ?

[shutdown -p now]

Iranians backing the regime in their country are doing it because they're social conservatives. And, on the other side of the pond, most people in the R-camp are social conservatives as well. Oh, they'll start with taxes, but if you bear with them you'll hear it all about gays and godless atheists ruining the country.

Re:Islam is...

[fnj]

The Koran demands you start killing within the first 10 pages

Citation needed.

Are you serious? All the citations you need are right here. Religion of peace, my ass.

Key phrase

[mvar]

the public in general doesn't seem bothered by it.
And why should it. The large majority of the muslims just don't give a shit - like the large majority of the christians didn't give a shit when "Life of Brian" was released in theaters a few decades ago and the far-right protested by shutting down cinemas, burning books etc. The only way for the whole world to escape this religious stupidity that holds us back as a species is through technology and, I'm afraid, consumerism. Just load the middle east with a few million smartphones and tablets and watch them turn into the obedient "I don't give a fuck about god & associates, give me my new ipad" crowd we've all become :-P

Ironically...

[Tastecicles]

...notwithstanding the fact that the Western media continues to paint the Middle East as a war torn, savage region of deserts and oil, the place is actually rather green (albeit warm), and 99% of the populace are generally happy with their individual lot, and peaceful. It's the disgruntled (for whatever reason) 1% who incite, most likely, IMHO, encouraged by Western influences* ::coughCIAcough::. Those same Western influences control Western media, so when unrest does happen, the cameras are already there. It's not a case of convenience, it's staged to deliberately destabilise the region and keep guns moving and blood money flowing.

OK, here's the list, in case you missed it:

CIA (and their list of "friendly" or "useful" individuals, al Qaeda)
MI6 (stop saying MI5, that's Internal Intelligence)
Puppet Governments (such as installed in Georgia - what, you didn't know the current President of Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvili, is a former New York lawyer?)
Common Purpose International ("leadership training" - which involves nudging, NLP, and is also used to find and neutralise leadership elements where such traits are not desired, by any means necessary)

Reality vs media, not blocked yet

[cancerward]

There is a huge gulf between media reports of life in Iran and the reality. I was there for two weeks this month and wrote a short blog post on the internet censorship. http://kanahakkliha.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/iran-in-2012.html

The reality is the censorship is considered to be a complete joke - freegate or tor just goes right through it. The government is just wasting their time. Facebook, youtube and twitter are all "blocked" but everyone uses them. It only gets annoying when you're accessing wifi from a mobile device and don't have a VPN already set up.

There's a site called blockediniran.com which is pretty accurate - http://www.blockediniran.com/?siteurl=google.com it shows that google.com is not blocked yet (but, for example, it can't understand that m.smh.com.au is a website). However, when I was there, every other country variant of google was blocked - google.com.au, google.co.uk, google.co.nz etc, and blockediniran confirms those.

Re:Hyperbole

[Torvac]

not true, the "criple,retard,'lazy', homeless people hate" was just the continuation of " is the best blabla, ... superior race & culture and we especially hate <group x> because of <ideology y>" thinking. now for example: z was german, x was jewish people and y was money/zionism or whatever. now exchange x/y/z with value of current news channels, lots of data - there you go , fresh nazi index for dummies. maybe use genocide-over-timespan/victims as data too.

Re:Complete and utter pandering BULLSHIT

[Kiuas]

enough with the Islam/Christian bashing. Or religion in general. It's a red herring, there to distract you from the real problem.

"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people." -House

I get and fully agree with your point about gullibility being the real issue. However what you're proposing (ignoring the religious part of the matter) sounds a bit like saying that instead of getting treatment for an illness a person should simply switch to a healthier lifestyle and the disease will magically fix itself.

Complicity to auhtority is an integral part of most religions. And I'm not talking just about muslims here. Members of the abrahamic religions usually gorw up in an enviroment where they are told that their view of the world is the correct one and everyone else - no matter what kind of reasoning or evidence they might use - is wrong. Likewise they are most often than not told that questioning anything told to them by their religious leaders is wrong. No adult would swallow all of this without questioning it but the mind of a child is extremely gullible, especially when it comes to information coming from his/her own parents so they come to accept it as the norm.

Don't get me wrong. The problem isn't that these people are stupid. The problem is that they've been told to never question anything that comes from a position of authority, no matter how much they dislike it. Many of the Iranian people probably disagree with the regime but - just like they're afraid to question the existence of God (in public) - they're afraid to question their leaders, no matter how vastly they might outnumber the people in power. Some people see and understand this but they tend to escape from the country instead of risking their lives (and the lives of their families) by trying to speak up because they also know that the majority of their fellow men will - out of fear - be demanding their public execution rather than standing with them.

That is essentially what organized religions are used for by both religious and govermental leaders: as a tool to control people and make them obidient and fearful. So while I agree with you that the true problem is indeed gullibility: I don't agree that religioin is a red herring because as far as I can see the vast majority of these people wouldn't be so gullible if it wasn't for their religion and religious upbringing.

Obama is Hitler

[SmallFurryCreature]

Obama is Hitler and no not because of Health Care and all the sillyness the right claims. People voted for Obama mostly because he was not the other guy. Anything but Bush. "Democracy" is at its most dangerous NOT when an obviously dangerous madman runs for power but when the voting public is willing to accept ANYONE but the regular guys.

In France, Hollande has been in power for 4 months and people are already dissatisfied because he hasn't turned the economy around. And the reason he was elected? Because he was not the other guy.

In Holland, the SP let the polls until it came to vote for rent-subsidie and mortage-tax-deduction and the PvDA and VVD became the big winners but a lot of people already protesting that the policies these two will enact will cause the 4th year of less spendable income for everyone but the very rich. People who barely understand politics think that it was good the PVV lost a lot of seats but forget that the only reason he did loose votes was because Geert Wilders totally failed to deliver on his anti-islam retoric.

In Greece, extreme right is gaining which might make you think that an economic downturn leads to rightwing, but PvDA is socialist and so is Hollande, so explain that?

The fact is that when it comes to crunch time, people will vote for safety if they still have a tiny amount of faith in the system and there is no charismatic alternative but when they lost faith in all the existing parties, there is room for a new star to rise. Even if that turns out to be a super-nova that will burn everything.

Microsoft is Hitler. MS didn't win dominance on the desktop because it was the best option but because all the other options failed (Apple, IBM, Amiga etc etc). Then an outsider can have a shot.

It is only so long before the musical chairs of western politics or the mid-eastern same guys in charge for decades with only the head changing can continue before people are willing to try any alternative no matter how crazy their policies might seem. It doesn't help if people start believing that a president can turn the world economie around in just 4 months (France) or even 4 years (America).

The fact that Romney even has a chance with his insane policies and total lack of any humanity whatsoever says enough.

Part of the problem in democracy is that it has no accountability. How many in Dresden voted for Hitler? Will America stop all government handouts to all Romney voters?

No? Then people will continue to vote for whoever they bloody well feel like it at the moment and damn the consequences.

Re:Obama is Hitler

[Anonymous Coward]

People voted for Obama mostly because he was not the other guy. Anything but Bush.

Bush had his two terms. It wasn't possible for him to run for a third.

Re:Hyperbole

[makomk]

The current "hate" is of the sort "I don't want a ground zero Mosque just like a Japanese wouldn't want Disneyland Hiroshima"

No, the current "hate" is of the sort "Any mosque built in New York City is a Ground Zero mosque and a deliberate and malicious attempt to mock good (Christian) Americans, because it's impossible that there might be groups of Muslims in New Yorn City who actually want to practice their religion, and even if they are they need to respect our nutty theories". Can you see how that kind of dehumanisation is likely lead to other, more nasty forms of hate?