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Flatlining User Base May Spell End of RIM
Meshach writes "There is an article in the Globe and Mail that says that the user base for Blackberry has stopped growing for the first time in the company's history, and speculates that this is the beginning of the end of RIM. The main problem seems to be that RIM's new Blackberry models like the Bold and Torch are selling poorly, and their production costs are much higher than other products manufactured in China. A recent research report says that after BB10 the company will need to sell or drastically change its business model."
I think it's safe to say he's a troll. The combination of the user name "AndroidLover" with the actual post pretending that Android doesn't exist and that WP7, of all things, is a major force in the market is... implausible.
THIS is the beginning of the end of RIM?
It began a long time ago...
Don't forget that Android devices are ridiculously easy to lock down and set up with full encryption. There are actually companies out there whose entire business is doing just that for the corporate use scenario.
Its so stupidly easy to integrate Android with all of their existing email and even internal messaging apps(most of which are written in Java and trivially ported to native) that it beggars belief that they would consider much of anything else.
iPhone doesn't allow the kind of direct control that Corporate security demands, and WP7 has such a low penetration that no one is asking for it anyways. Android, even though there could definitely be better solutions, is currently the only real choice for corporate america. The worker drones get something that does everything an iPhone does(in some cases does it better, in some cases worse, but the important things are roughly the same, except for the GPS nav on android is much better) and they get their security.
1. Use Android
2. Enhance security; add exclusive BB apps.
3. Profit
No, no ??? needed. Just go straight to profit.
The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
I was just contacted by a RIM recruiter through a certain job site. (Of course it involves moving to Canada.)
1. Buy RIM for $10B
2. Sit on technologies for 3 years
3. ???
4. Sell what's left for 75 million
5. Profit!
RIM's main problem is that enterprise companies have started moving away from the platform. People don't want to carry around several smart phones and are much more eager to choose either iPhone or WP7 phones. Microsoft is known for being the office centric company and therefore has fantastic support for Exchange server and office apps. RIM lost the audience it had when Windows Phones were introduced (while Windows Mobile also had many work users, WP was a major improvement)..
While you present an interesting theory, reality is that noone is using Windows Phone. They had a market share of 3% of smartphones shipped. iPhone in particular and Android are the ones eating Blackberry's lunch. To make this even worse, this quarter Windows Phone is currently only sold on known obsolete phones. I'm glad I didn't get suckered into buying a phone that obsolete immediately, unlike Nexus Phones and iPhones.
Alternatively RIM has all but stopped creating new legacy phones, and anyone who *is* interested (at least in the north american market) is pretty much waiting for BB10 devices at this point.
Financials are out this week; it'll be interesting to see if global growth did actually stop.
RIM was hardly dead 5 years ago. Android wasn't out 5 years ago, it didn't come out until 2008. 5 years ago the iPhone was just coming out and it was hardly a business ready device. Do you remember the state of Palm phones and Windows Phone 5 years ago? I doubt it.
I really enjoyed my BlackBerry 5 years ago, it was an impressive device. Heck I enjoyed my BlackBerry 10 years ago. RIM was on top of the world. Shame its basically the same thing they sell today. Arrogance, ignorance, whatever their failing was. They're done today. Had they done something good 2 years ago, maybe a different story, but 2 years is a long time in this market.
since when is stagnation the beginning of the end? We have saturation and the mobile market become more and more an upgrade game.
Hire Carly?
..don't panic
Your troll was too subtle, to be funny.
"RIM's main problem is that enterprise companies have started moving away from the platform." While obvious, usually on par with the average Slashdot informative moderation.
"People don't want to carry around several smart phones and are much more eager to choose either iPhone or WP7 phones." This statement begins as true (insightful moderation) and if you changed WP7 or added Android. It would complete it. Your troll is based on skipping Android phones which are actually far more popular then WP7.
"Microsoft is known for being the office centric company and therefore has fantastic support for Exchange server and office apps." Being that Apple Purchased the license from Microsoft to support exchange is one reason why RIM is in trouble on the enterprise market, as a lot of companies do use Exchange (Rightly or Wrongly).
"RIM lost the audience it had when Windows Phones were introduced (while Windows Mobile also had many work users, WP was a major improvement)." This is pointing out a correlation, however you don't see the numbers showing that Windows Phone is taking over their market, it is more likely due to Microsoft jumping onto to Smart Phone Band Wagon.
"RIM basically lost all of its advantages to iPhone (home users) and Windows Phone's (work users). The only place I still see some Blackberries is the university students in Bangkok, Thailand (crazy adventures there, let me tell you)."
I haven't seen that much effort in Microsoft trying to take over the business market with Windows Phone, but trying to attract the consumer market. Apple and Android had already gotten the consumer market and are now working on making it more business friendly.
While saying anything nice about Microsoft on Slashdot can get some troll moderation, also adding Apple and ignoring Android as a competitive product helps. You just didn't get it right. You had the pieces to make a good troll, but you didn't put it together correctly, It is like a white nerd trying to talk street to look cool. You say all the right words but you end up looking even more out of place.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
1) Meet Deadlines!
2) Make good software!
3) Follow trends and don't attempt to set them!
If Rim just got there act together and started running like a mature company and not a cutting edge start up then they might be able to turn around.
He may or may not be a troll, but I work for a HUGE company, and they dumped all the Crack-Berrys and went all-in on windows phones. I was not surprised that they did that, as we are microsoft to the core (with all the benefits that entails, like blue screens galore). Before the giant black-berry purge, I had not actually seen a windows phone in the wild.
Apparently our IT folks examined the smart-phone landscape and something (hopefully) smart pushed them to WP7. so the GP may have a point.
BTW, I hate the cut-off text of WP7, and would not buy one with my money.
Sheldon
What kind of world is it that a company is "dead" the first quarter they don't grow their user base?
Here's a prediction: IBM is dead, it's only a matter of time, they're already slipping into obscurity.
And, while we're at it, how about Linux? I mean, really, with that pitiful market share, how long can they possibly last?
Just because Palm flamed out spectacularly doesn't mean that every handheld device maker will follow in their image when they lose market share. RIM is no longer going to conquer the whole world, but they probably have a viable customer base and market share for many years to come.
And, Apple is unlearning that lesson, or what?
RIM is doing a terrible job of marketing the bold and torch, which are both really good phones. They don't have them particularly widely available - and perhaps even worse, well advertised - in the US. Ask an average US consumer if they've heard of an iPhone, they'll answer yes. Heard of an android smart phone, they'll answer yes as well. Heard of a blackberry torch, they'll likely say no.
If they want to expand their user base, they should try selling phones directly to users. It works well for Apple, there is no reason why it couldn't work well for RIM as well. They don't even need to open their own stores, they could sell them through best buy, target, walmart, radio shack, etc. Sell unlocked phones with manufacturer warranties, there is a market for that if they can hit a reasonable price point and free consumers from having to sign 2-year contracts to buy a new phone.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
He may or may not be a troll, but I work for a HUGE company, and they dumped all the Crack-Berrys and went all-in on windows phones. I was not surprised that they did that, as we are microsoft to the core
The problem is that Windows Phones actually aren't any better at integrating with real Windows infrastructure than iPhones, Android devices, or BlackBerries are. If Microsoft had added real domain/GPO features to Windows Phones, they could have made a good business case. But as things are, everyone has ActiveSync (support for Exchange servers) so this is no advantage for WP.
Wasn't there a story not so long back about how India is one of the few markets RIM is still thriving? In India, while people pick up quickly Western technology trends, they are not so fast in leaving it. Right now, Blackberries are one of the leading phones there, and that market's not going away. So if RIM disappears elsewhere, they may end up becoming a purely Indian mobile company, similar to Karbonn or Micromaxx.
Don't forget that Android devices are ridiculously easy to lock down and set up with full encryption. There are actually companies out there whose entire business is doing just that for the corporate use scenario.
Its so stupidly easy to integrate Android with all of their existing email and even internal messaging apps(most of which are written in Java and trivially ported to native) that it beggars belief that they would consider much of anything else.
iPhone doesn't allow the kind of direct control that Corporate security demands, and WP7 has such a low penetration that no one is asking for it anyways. Android, even though there could definitely be better solutions, is currently the only real choice for corporate america. The worker drones get something that does everything an iPhone does(in some cases does it better, in some cases worse, but the important things are roughly the same, except for the GPS nav on android is much better) and they get their security.
The iPhone Configurator allows corporations to manage iPhones. But even with that, the iPhone's data-at-rest encryption and Activesync compliance hisorically gave them a heads-up over other BYODs. In addition, third party apps for iOS / Android have provided more granular and non-managed security features. For Android it filled in encryption feature gaps which is no longer an issue on the latest devices. On the iPhone the biggest benefit of these apps was to sandbox corporate data from personal, including a remote wipe.
Apparently they dont like a 30 minute server setup process, followed by no-hassle user adds (user needs to enter their email and the activation password) and device wipes.
Yes, Im sure something smart pushed them to WP7, but darned if I can figure out what it is. Oh wait, Im gonna go with "someone higher up doesnt care about email as much as he cares about 'slick' and 'can watch netflix'".
Don't forget that Android devices are ridiculously easy to lock down and set up with full encryption....
is currently the only real choice for corporate america.
Correct me if I am wrong, but you need to get a third party product to manage that centrally (would be interested to hear how youre doing it if not). Blackberries are STILL a good choice for corp america, if you really care about security.
You really cant compare Android's email security to BES's; Android can be tricked into disclosing email with ANY legit-signed SSL cert with the proper FQDN-- even if it was issued by the DOD or one of China's authorities. You CANNOT fool BES devices in the same way-- you must either crack the AES encryption on a per-device basis, or grab all the per-device keys from the server.
I get the whole "Oh noes BES is dying" thing, but they still have superior management, and they still have superior security. Perhaps thats not what is in vogue, and failing to adapt will kill BES, but lets not go overboard by comparing Android security to Blackberry.
Only the recent crop of premium Android devices support these features. I have a shiny new 2.x Android device which only supports application-level encryption through third-party apps. I'm pretty new to Android, but it's important not to mislead people on this.
The same is true of iOS. You need the new stuff to have these features. I would argue that features like remote wipe, manditory encryption and whitelisting apps is much easier in iOS 5 than on Android, although I haven't looked at iOS 6 yet though.
It's not hard to find this information: http://www.apple.com/iphone/business/integration/
iOS and iPhone hardware have supported the features you mentioned for a long time. However, only in iOS 4.x have all the features been accurately reported.
Why would you think the IT people had any real input into this decision?
Last time Microsoft made an aggressive push to counter Apple et. al. in the workplace, they didn't target us lowly peons - they wined and dined presidents and CEOs. I recall several Microsoft-centric directives, a few years ago, coming from the office of our university's president regarding things like setting up a campus-wide Exchange service; they came roughly six months after our central IT department announced we were moving campus mail to Google Apps.
#DeleteChrome
Or rather, "someone higher up got some favours from a Microsoft rep".
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Seven years ago was 2005. According to Wikipedia, RIM turned its first profit in 2004. So you appear to be saying that you declared Blackberry dead just when it started taking off. That is certainly possible, but it doesn't mean you are prescient, it means you are an idiot. In addition you comment that you thought their infrastructure was "cool for the beginning of the 90's", considering that the first device using RIM technology shipped in 1998, that means you thought their technology was obsolete when it first shipped. I could go on, but your comment suggests that you know nothing about the history of RIM
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Blue screens? Seriously? WTF are you running, some 7 year old plus XP installs? Its called let go of the fricking decade old patched all to hell creaky as fuck ancient history and get Windows 7 already! I have YET to see a Win 7 BSOD, I'm sure that they can happen, but its so rare that if I ever did see one I'd be checking for hardware failures, and I work on Windows machines 6 days a week. Hell even Vista for all its pains in the ass was extremely hard to BSOD unless you ran some alpha quality graphics driver and now even that doesn't crash Win 7, it simply restarts the graphics driver, doesn't even make you close any programs.
As for WP7? Unless the PHBs that do the buying were getting nice lunches with a MS marketer i don't see the selling point. The WP phones that are out don't have either the nicer displays of iPhone nor the nicer features of the Droid phones, has less apps than both of those, and from what I've been reading doesn't even have steller AD and group management which you think if nothing else MSFT would have gotten right, seeing how WinServer is their product and all.
Of course WinPhone suffers from the same myopic focus that MSFT has had of late, their insane consumer only focus that has them pushing brain dead ideas like Metro on Win 8 Pro, like business users want their workers with a tweeting, twitting, FB shitting social page for a start screen. Yep that will get them working, have constant FB updates and other crap distracting them...sigh. Ballmer makes the Pepsi guy's rein at Apple look like the work of a fricking genius. And if the past is any indication I hope they'll be ready to toss those phones when the next WinPhone version comes out because it probably won't get an update.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
From where I sit I saw one of the strengths of RIM turn against them - the BES server and all the administrative control it allows.
For many years I worked closely with the team that ran the blackberry infrastructure at my company. Whenever a new blackberry came out, users started asking for it. When I asked them about it, the answer could often be summarized as follows:
"Yes people want them, but that model has X. Our current version of X does not allow us to administratively disable X. On (date) we will be upgrading our BES servers and will be able to disable X, at that point we will allow people to use them here."
So all the users who got new devices found that they didn't do anything that the old ones didn't. They blamed this on RIM, even though the real culprit was in fact that the company was locking them down. But I've heard this from numerous people at work.
I still have my company issued BB though, because I don't want them and their remote wipe capability anywhere near my real smart phone. Apart from the keyboard though, there isn't anything special about it.
In some industries, that might not mean much but the smartphone world is moving quickly and it doesn't take ling to go from a bit outdated to buggy whip.
Hell its worse than that, as we saw here a few months ago MSFT is paying $500+ in ads for every single user they get to pay $50 to take a Lumia on contract
Not defending what might still be a waste of money by MS, but comparing the supposed "$500+" cost of the ads to the $50 "cost" of the phone doesn't really say much since that $50 is the subsidised cost and can't meaningfully be considered in isolation from the obligatory contract.
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